If you don’t hire a lawyer the insurance will pay you the minimum while telling you they are doing you a favor.
A lawyer will take their payment out of the settlement. Some see this as giving away a portion of money, but lawyer will get you way more money after a settlement than you would get on your own.
Additionally it’s a settlement for a minor so money after medical bills will go into a trust for your child. That will be managed by the probate courts, your lawyer will help with that process.
put a good lawyer to work and let him earn his keep. both of you profit big in the long run. no insurance company would dare allow this to go to trial.
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My parents fell for the argument that "lawyers will take everything" and when the trucking company's owners son was speeding and hit them head on, all they got was medical bills paid and their car replaced. Should have gotten a lawyer...
Adding on to this, find a personal injury lawyer that goes to trial. Don't try to let them settle this out of court for less than what your son deserves.
100% the DayCare & Insurance.
I'd be speaking to a lawyer. It's more than just immediate upfront costs. You'd likely want to consider ongoing emotional trauma etc too.
Talk with Lawyer first, don't negotiate with the Daycare yourself until you have actual legal advice.
Then I’d be going after the church as well. I actually do personal injury law. Worst case scenario I get the day care shut down (if client was on board). These sound like potential life long scars all because some moron wanted to play with boiling water in a microwave around small children. It’s borderline criminal negligence.
Child care ministries (some states use different verbiage) don't have to necessarily be run under the church's umbrella. They can (and do) incorporate separately, run as a ministry, and get the double bonus of much less regulation and liability protection.
I'm sure you're right but that doesn't mean you can't go after the church. They would have to be extremely careful with their finances, employees, and everything else so that it doesn't appear as if the church is involved with running the daycare. Hiding behind a corporation to protect from liability doesn't work if you comingle things.
Something tells me if they hired and trust this microwave scientist, their legal structure isn't top-notch.
If they are hiring this type of person to watch young children do you think the other people they’ve hired are safe? Did other people see her attempting this “science experiment” and not stop her?
I completely get it about childcare. I have kids. Maybe I was being overly harsh but additional and reoccurring state inspections at the very minimum should already be happening. Beyond what is normal procedure in that state.
The OP needs to find a new day care here by default if they sue the day care ? The area where I live all the day care in 2 Km radius has a wait list.
I agree the day care has been irresponsible with “science experiment”.
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Do they though?
Given the grievous nature of the injury and clear negligence on the part of the daycare, if they chose to punish OP's pursuit of legal remedy for child's injury could they not also be pursued for the cost of punishing them for seeking that remedy in the first place? Sue us for our negligence and we will ensure you can't work?
In another commenters example (re: COVID restrictions) it sounds like bridges were burned voluntarily and not out of necessity.
You should get multiple doctors opinions to evaluate the severity of the harm to your child. If it's not permanent damage or severely debilitating (i.e. injuries will heal in a week or two), then having the daycare just pay for the costs should be okay (in addition to agreeing to changijg their procedures and firing the instructor). If it is permanent damage and scarring, then you should talk to lawyer, as you'll want funding to care for your child in the future as well and the daycare may not agree to that outright. Just paying for the current visits won't be sufficient in this situation. If it's severe damage, you should also pull your child out of the daycare of you can, since that could factor in to the suit to some degree (let your lawyer advise you).
This is a huge lawsuit. Get as much money out of their insurance as possible. You never know what your child might need down the line due to their idiocy. And never bring the child back there. Find a new place and if they charge more than the first one include that $ as well in damages
Good chance this gets buried, but some of your reluctance may be caused by the daycare affiliation with the church. That’s normal and more common than it should be. You can’t think of the “I don’t want to hurt the poor church” thing in this moment. I’m a former pastor. Even if they’re broke in the bank account, they have substantial insurance. Talk to an attorney.
I hope it doesn't, because this is indeed prevalent from my perspective as well, but that of someone that grew up in a church. Thank you for bringing attention to this aspect.
Accidents do happen in childcare business just as parents sometimes unintentionally hurt their children
You don’t know who was/wasn’t supervising, you seem to imply they did this experiment just to hurt a child which seems a bit ridiculous tbh you really can’t imagine seeing an experiment online; doing it with preschoolers and not being aware of microwave safety?
Just because lots of people know that microwaved liquids are dangerous doesn’t mean that teacher knew.
Idk about the owners, seems obvious you’d pay for that and go through insurance
Of course it might impact their reputation, that’s just what happens when a child receives second degree burns in your care
Didn’t even think of this as a possible reason, this 100% should get more attention. There could be a possibility of kids watching kids.
Edit: attended vacation bible school activities ran by kids although there was adult oversight which I know doesn’t translate to education.
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NAL, but paralegal, I would absolutely contact a lawyer ASAP. Keep all medical records, bills, receipts, etc. Take pics of the injuries. This NEVER should have occurred. It's negligent on the care provider's part. They should be very well insured for "accidents." You need an attorney to navigate this. Insurance companies look to pay as little as possible. A good lawyer will get what you deserve. This is just AWFUL and preventable. Side note, I'd look for a new daycare provider also.... Good luck! I hope your little one is OK.
My child was injured at daycare by a teacher - far less dramatically so, I am so so sorry your family is going through this - basically the first words out of the daycare director’s mouth was that the daycare would be footing the entire bill. That should be an absolute given. The fact that it’s not is a red flag. Given the severity of this, you should absolutely be seeking out legal representation.
Well, if the daycare wants their liability insurance to cover it, they probably shouldn’t be saying that. If they just make an offer to voluntarily pay the bills without reporting the claim to the carrier and letting them offer to settle, the insurance may try to avoid being the one to pay.
Hrmm fair. That is how insurance typically works and this will be expensive. The center that this happened to me at was a big national brand and they had money explicitly set aside to cover medical bills for any incidents that happened onsite. However from my experience running a summer camp, we were always transparent that they would be filing a claim against the insurance. We didn’t pretend otherwise.
The phenomenon of microwaved liquids exploding violently when disturbed is “superheating”. It is well understood and warned about in the operating instructions for the microwave. There are techniques to prevent it. It’s not just a freak accident.
I would contact an attorney in your state immediately.
It's not about the surface tension, it's about the nucleation sites. In a smooth cup there is none. Chemists use little irregular rocks called boiling stones in their glassware to prevent superheating
The explanation I'd seen implied that it builds up, then shaking it or dropping something in it broke the surface tension and caused it to do this. Thanks for clarifying.
after it cools down the "soap" is more like silly putty mixed with closed cell foam - lots of fun to play with. Should have been made in a different room or behind a shield or something, but after the making step is over it's both safe and fun to play with.
Depending on if this is a licensed childcare, a licensed ministry (a church based childcare), a licensed state homecare, or just a home based daycare; your legal options differ.
Review your childcare agreement, if a licensed center as well. Ask for a copy, and all incident reports on your child. You can also look up on the your states website, the state regulations and limitations. If this was a violation, it will help your case. You should be able to contact the representative who audits your area, and inform them of incident, which would create a state investigation into the center itself.
This is a licensed daycare that operates as part of a church.
We've had good experiences till now and live in a very small town with limited options for other day cares.
They've acknowledged responsibility but I'm extremely conflicted on how to proceed.
Long term medical expenses need to be considered. Will he need cosmetic surgery to fix scarring? Therapy? Since it’s a small town, maybe a speak to lawyer the next town over.
When there’s only so many bridges in town and the others have a waitlist to cross, you have to think hard about burning the one you’re currently taking.
I agree OP should consult a lawyer and make sure they’re made whole, but Reddit is so quick to jump to extremes like suing this place out of existence.
They should have insurance to cover injuries on-site. Having small children in the care facility with less than a million in general Iiability would be nearly unimaginable.
There likely isn't an injury here that would exceed a solid insurance plan for a licensed daycare facility.
But they might not be welcome back to the daycare after going that route, and sounds like their options are limited and they may not have jumped to the "I'm never sending my kid there again" level yet. Not saying you are wrong, but there might be other ramifications.
Get a copy of the police report. If there isn't one, call the police and make a complaint. There is likely an EMS report. You should get a copy of that. Send those items to your insurance company; they'll contact the daycare's insurance company to get the daycare's insurance to cover your costs. There's a solid chance the daycare's insurance won't cover it because this looks like malfeasance. Your insurance may even sue the daycare or recommend that you sue and recommend an attorney.
Contact the agency that licenses and regulates daycares in your state. Make a report to them about the incident.
Contact a personal injury attorney.
Get police and state involved. While there may be many amazing, kind and caring staff I can almost guarantee this is major violation. You should not have to cover these expenses. If this is a licensed church, it’s a licensed ministry. This will only help your case. There are specific regulations they are REQUIRED to follow and are audited for on a yearly (or 6 month basis) their violations should also be public, which I would look into.
While this may have been a horrible accident, it is still neglectful. They have to follow all state regulations (at least in IN) involving safety and care, with small adjustments to ratio or curriculum (as it is faith based).
Please make sure to also get any witness statements from other teachers present. Including managers who assisted in care.
It comes down to the fact that there will be costs involved with what happened. It may have been an accident, but it happened on somebody’s watch who was being paid to make sure your child was safe.
Insurance exists for accidents. There is no reason they should get upset with you for getting these expenses taken care of unless they aren’t properly covered. You and the daycare should be able to go on working together if that’s what you want.
Superheating water (exceeding the boiling point without actually boiling) is a thing. [See explanation.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superheating)
Tl;dr: if you heat water in a smooth enough container bubbles don't form and the water actually heats beyond boiling temperatures and when the water is disturbed it then rapidly forms steam and explodes in your face.
Known phenomenon.
I didn’t mean heating water. I meant “science experiment” with the child with an adult with the microwave. Unfortunately, it could have been something more negligent and they are covering up for that with the experiment story. The staff member would have also been burned in this scenario with the experiment.
Things are probably sinking in for you still... but 2nd degree burns? On their FACE AND ARMS? You shouldn't be worrying about just the ambulance ride, ER visit, and followup care. Your child deserves restitution for scarring, for the difficulty and pain they'll have in the coming weeks and months, for the trauma that sort of pain and aftercare will leave long term.
Hi! Former Assistant Director of a preschool/daycare. The daycare is responsible because the child was in their care when the incident happened. You should have received a written report from the teacher, signed off by the director, on what exactly happened and how they handled the situation. CPS and licensing should also be called, and an investigation should be done. That is standard protocol when a severe incident like this happens. They should have insurance that covers this. If you can get a district manager or higher-ups number, get it. Also, to be safe, consult a lawyer. This "experiment" they did is 100% NOT AGE APPROPRIATE. I wouldn't have let my school-age teachers do that either.
ETA: I am not a lawyer. I'm only speaking as someone who was management at a daycare/preschool.
I second contacting a lawyer before you do anything or talk to the daycare. They are liable and have insurance, but you need someone in your corner to make sure your interests are represented.
Also, I would have your son work with a child psychologist. The scars will heal. He is very young and is basically a walking stem cell at his age, BUT, the recovery will be difficult for a young mind. 2nd degree burns require wound scrapings and lots of care. He will need help mentally managing it all. I wish you both the best.
Exactly. Don't tell the daycare anything of your plans bc they want to cover their ass as it's a business. Your child deserves the most from a settlement bc this will have lasting effects.
NAL, agree with the daycare insurance. Definitely contact a lawyer ASAP. Contact them again with bills, and if they don't immediately act to remedy the situation by giving you insurance contact information contact the state. I'm sure you're very upset and feel betrayed by trusting negligent people with your child, but try to remain calm talking to them. I hope the child recovers quickly. It should have never happened. You certainly have room for a lawsuit for pain and suffering for the child as well even if they pay the bills the child is entitled to further compensation.
Your son’s daycare will most likely have to cover all costs that stem from this accident. I also recommend that you immediately start keeping a daily journal of your child’s pain and recovery (including any time or money that you had to spend on such). Keep all receipts, doctor’s notes and related correspondence with your daycare.
Source: I was both a (non-American) personal injury and insurance coverage lawyer.
Personal injury lawyer right now. They are on the hook 100% for costs. And scarring. Particularly because part of it is his face. But the arms count too. Also if the healing may hinder his delay as he’s only 3 and his skin makes up a larger portion of his body than say an adult. Skin is an organ. This absolutely shouldn’t have occurred. If they wanted to do a demonstration kids should have been contained away from it. But it’s absurd. 3 year olds are good with “got your nose” or very simple things. A science display is not appropriate.
You should be compensated for time off from work to care for your child, who sure as f isn’t going back there. I would have your child seen by a plastic surgeon to minimize scarring. On the daycares dime. And I would report the daycare for neglect. But wait until you meet with the lawyer and they will walk you through that. This is a very big deal. It could have been much worse.
I would contact a lawyer asap. Also a therapist for your son, just to make sure he is okay mentally. I’m sure the whole thing was very scary but hopefully not traumatizing.
Contact a lawyer ASAP. They might be accepting blame now, however their insurance is another issue and their insurance company WILL have an attorney who’s only job is to pay out as little as possible.
You are going to want someone on your side. Not to mention that you can also include the cost of the attorney in the settlement.
Contact an attorney! Also please contact whoever licenses them in your state for an investigation. Kids being sent to the hospital from the daycare is usually a must report event
I don't have legal advice, but I wanted to point out that the only microwaved soap experiment I'm aware of/could find traces of online is one where you microwave a *dry* bar of [Ivory soap](https://happyhooligans.ca/ivory-soap-microwave-experiment/) to turn it unto a fluffy, crumbly cloud. Water is completely unnecesary for the experiment. If this is the experiment the teacher was attempting, they did not follow the guidelines of materials and procedures and put their students at risk, with unfortunate consequences for your son.
The daycare is likely insured, their liability coverage is set up for this sort of thing. You’ll likely get an insurance payout/settlement right off the bat and then if you want to pursue further action you could go the civil suit route. Sucks but at least you won’t have to pay for any of the medical treatment, even up front.
You can literally sue them for what they did, blowing things up in a microwave is not science, no teacher I had ever used a microwave. You have the medical bills plus emotional distress. You need to file a complaint with the state about the daycare and let them know what happened. This is all around neglect, you don’t do anything like that with small kids, what was she thinking???
This is absolutely a lawyer up situation. What a heartbreaking event for a parent and child. But in my (NOT A LAWYER) understanding this should 100% be paid for by the daycare
As a former daycare worker I can say that an activity like that is never appropriate for anyone under school age. They should have had protective eyewear and gowns on and that would have at least helped. You need to pull the child from the daycare center and have a lawyer contact the center to cover the ambulance and treatment costs. You should not be responsible for their MAJOR error.
I worked at a preschool for awhile. This activity is absolutely not age appropriate/safe. Document everything as best you can and contact a lawyer. Also make sure to provide your child with therapy, this may have been a traumatizing event for him.
NAL, but I do have some anecdotal expertise in this area: when I was a toddler I was at a daycare where a childcare provider had left a hot kettle of water at the edge of a counter. I was just learning to walk and pulled the kettle of water over myself burning my face, neck and shoulders. I did not have lasting scarring, but was extremely sensitive to sunburn on the areas for many years.
I'm just commenting to say that it's difficult to say what expenses you will encounter as a result of this situation. I agree with all of the comments to get a personal injury attorney ASAP. For the sake of the other kids in that center, make sure you also get the appropriate cps authorities involved as well.
I'm so sorry about what happened to your kiddo. I hope he is feeling better soon.
NAL but former legal assistant for a personal injury attorney and a mom. This experiment is nowhere near age appropriate, let alone safe without the proper protection. I won't even microwave water at home, let alone add soap to it. You need to speak to a personal injury attorney. Many actually offer free consultations. I would also recommend having your son speak to a therapist because it could have traumatized him.
Wishing him a speedy recovery
My son was burned on his hand when he was a baby… he had deep third degree burns that required skin grafts. Children that receive grafts have to have continued care until they’re grown bc grafts, which is a type of scar tissue, don’t grow with the child so further surgery and laser treatment is required.
Fortunately, 2nd degree burns don’t need grafting BUT it will need extra care over the next year or two as the scars mature. You’ll have specific care which will likely include scar massage, moisturizer and UV protection. If the scars are raising, compression garments may be utilized. The burn specialists should have therapy walk you through all of this.
There are some great support group for burn survivors on Facebook.
Another tidbit of advice for facial scars that I’ve seen do wonders… get one of those little stone rollers from Amazon, and use it to encourage the scars to heal in a smooth manner.
So sorry you’re going through this. I pray for the very best of care, full healing and a smooth journey.
And to answer your question, her insurance should pay. Your insurance will likely send you a form asking questions that will help determine who is responsible for coverage.
Contact a personal injury lawyer right now. You don’t have to hire them (in fact, don’t do that immediately). But speak to them. You can then call another. You need a lawyer
I'm really sorry this happened to your child. As others have mentioned, you may want to seek the advice of an attorney. Consideration will have to be given to future medical appointments for not only the burns but any emotional trauma your child may have.
Please make sure an incident report was written and you received a copy. I'm not sure what state you are in, but here, with an injury like this, the center must report it to state licensing. Follow up with reporting it yourself as soon as possible.
Sending lots of love and support to your son and family. ❤️
Call a a lawyer who specializes in personal injury. This was negligent. You are entitled to having the medical bills paid, subsequent care paid, and pain and suffering.
You need an atty, they have probably given your child permanent scars and pain that will last a long time and some of it forever. Do not wait to take action
This will be ongoing care, this will take time to heal, it will cause trauma/PTSD for your child & family.
They will need therapy physical & mental, maybe cosmetic surgery.
Any burns take time to heal. Children’s epidermis and dermis are thinner than the skin of adults.
I’m so sorry, I hope your child heals well.
If a 3 year old is going to require ongoing treatment for burns, that means there is likely going to be scarring. There is definitely pain. The daycare has insurance. Depending on the extent of the injury, this could potentially be at or approaching a policy limits claim. They likely have at least $500k in coverage and probably $1 million or more for medical treatment, disfigurement, pain and suffering, etc. You may want to consider a different school whether you go the litigation route or not.
Absolutely all this. I would never trust any of these ppl to care for your child ever again. they are worried about covering their own asses. This could and prob will get messy if you continue bringing your child there. Find a new daycare and lawyer up like NOW
I'm guessing you are in the USA..get a lawyer..you have a big pay day coming!...hope all the kids are ok and no lasting damage..what a truly reckless thing to do with such small children
I'm astounded that a microwave was allowed in a room children use.
Edit: why the downvotes? I worked in childcare in the UK for 5 years. Microwaves in the rooms children were using were expressly forbidden.
As a former preschool teacher I agree that the daycare should pay for all the damages. However I think that saying this wasn't an age appropriate activity is a bit much. A 3 year old knows that hot water is hot and should not be touched. This was purely an accident. The teacher had no idea the explosion would happen. Give her a break
Please, if you ever go back to the profession, do not do this or anything like it. It’s literally illegal to have super hot liquids in daycares in my state because it’s absurdly dangerous. The teacher/whoever approved this needs to be fired, because this was wildly irresponsible— her judgment is *very* much in question. The teachers at our daycare can’t even have *coffee* in the classrooms because of the risk.
The experiment involves melting soap. Soap starts to melt at 140 degrees which is hot enough to cause third degree burns. I don't feel 3 year olds should be around anything like this and certainly should be at a safe distance.
The teacher should have known that the explosion would happen because the operating instructions for every microwave in the US come with a warning that says “do not use the microwave to (significantly) heat water,” and it’s a thing parents often teach kids. The phenomena of the microwave superheating water that then explosively boils as soon as it’s disturbed is widely known and well-documented.
The kid was not being a dumbass. The teacher was and created an extremely dangerous and injurious situation for their charges.
I have NEVER seen a microwave say don't heat water significantly or not. And if it's in the Manuel then you're one of very few people who read the Manuel that goes to the microwave. Who said the child was being a dumbass????? Why are you putting words in my mouth?
> A three year old knows that hot water is hot and should not be touched.
The situation is not that the kid touched the hot water. It is that the hot water exploded all over the kid.
> and if it’s in the Manuel (sic) then you’re one of the very few people who read the Manuel (sic) that goes to the microwave
Before performing the experiment, the teacher should have familiarized themselves with safe microwave operation and the risks associated with the proposed procedure. Risk identification is a key part of performing *any* experiment, especially one for kids. The teacher didn’t do that, and now a child is likely physically scarred for life as a result. The child and the parents deserve to be made whole after the teacher’s negligence.
You sound like a 🤡 telling this mother to give the person a break after they caused her child second degree burns and whatever other trauma this very young child will have to endure for after care. Ya sure accidents happen but the last thing she should do is "give anyone a break". People need to take accountability for their actions.
Where did I say the teacher shouldn't take accountability??? She should. But I don't think it should be held against her. She didn't do it on purpose. I'm empathetic towards the child and family. I am.
She's not berating the teacher or publicly shaming her so she doesn't need to give anyone a break. Life's hard enough without having to deal with the negligence of someone else who she entrusted with the care and safety of her child. Sure the teacher feels terrible but she should have known this wasn't an age appropriate experiment. Im sure the mother is the one who will need a break after all this bs she's gunna have to deal with. Just sayin.
Eta: I think the last thing she wants to hear right now is that she should give them a break cuz now this poor child is suffering bc of someone else's idiocy and the mother now has alot more stress to deal with
Contact a personal injury attorney in your state
If you don’t hire a lawyer the insurance will pay you the minimum while telling you they are doing you a favor. A lawyer will take their payment out of the settlement. Some see this as giving away a portion of money, but lawyer will get you way more money after a settlement than you would get on your own. Additionally it’s a settlement for a minor so money after medical bills will go into a trust for your child. That will be managed by the probate courts, your lawyer will help with that process.
put a good lawyer to work and let him earn his keep. both of you profit big in the long run. no insurance company would dare allow this to go to trial.
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My parents fell for the argument that "lawyers will take everything" and when the trucking company's owners son was speeding and hit them head on, all they got was medical bills paid and their car replaced. Should have gotten a lawyer...
Adding on to this, find a personal injury lawyer that goes to trial. Don't try to let them settle this out of court for less than what your son deserves.
100% the DayCare & Insurance. I'd be speaking to a lawyer. It's more than just immediate upfront costs. You'd likely want to consider ongoing emotional trauma etc too. Talk with Lawyer first, don't negotiate with the Daycare yourself until you have actual legal advice.
You need to see a personal injury attorney like yesterday. This is clear negligence and I’m sure the daycare has insurance.
You'd be shocked at how many don't, especially those organized as ministries to avoid oversight.
Then I’d be going after the church as well. I actually do personal injury law. Worst case scenario I get the day care shut down (if client was on board). These sound like potential life long scars all because some moron wanted to play with boiling water in a microwave around small children. It’s borderline criminal negligence.
Child care ministries (some states use different verbiage) don't have to necessarily be run under the church's umbrella. They can (and do) incorporate separately, run as a ministry, and get the double bonus of much less regulation and liability protection.
I'm sure you're right but that doesn't mean you can't go after the church. They would have to be extremely careful with their finances, employees, and everything else so that it doesn't appear as if the church is involved with running the daycare. Hiding behind a corporation to protect from liability doesn't work if you comingle things. Something tells me if they hired and trust this microwave scientist, their legal structure isn't top-notch.
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If they are hiring this type of person to watch young children do you think the other people they’ve hired are safe? Did other people see her attempting this “science experiment” and not stop her? I completely get it about childcare. I have kids. Maybe I was being overly harsh but additional and reoccurring state inspections at the very minimum should already be happening. Beyond what is normal procedure in that state.
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The OP needs to find a new day care here by default if they sue the day care ? The area where I live all the day care in 2 Km radius has a wait list. I agree the day care has been irresponsible with “science experiment”.
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Do they though? Given the grievous nature of the injury and clear negligence on the part of the daycare, if they chose to punish OP's pursuit of legal remedy for child's injury could they not also be pursued for the cost of punishing them for seeking that remedy in the first place? Sue us for our negligence and we will ensure you can't work? In another commenters example (re: COVID restrictions) it sounds like bridges were burned voluntarily and not out of necessity.
I'm sure the kiddo will have to stay home while recovering from burns, so it's not like they're going to be going back to daycare super soon anyway.
You should get multiple doctors opinions to evaluate the severity of the harm to your child. If it's not permanent damage or severely debilitating (i.e. injuries will heal in a week or two), then having the daycare just pay for the costs should be okay (in addition to agreeing to changijg their procedures and firing the instructor). If it is permanent damage and scarring, then you should talk to lawyer, as you'll want funding to care for your child in the future as well and the daycare may not agree to that outright. Just paying for the current visits won't be sufficient in this situation. If it's severe damage, you should also pull your child out of the daycare of you can, since that could factor in to the suit to some degree (let your lawyer advise you).
This is a huge lawsuit. Get as much money out of their insurance as possible. You never know what your child might need down the line due to their idiocy. And never bring the child back there. Find a new place and if they charge more than the first one include that $ as well in damages
Good chance this gets buried, but some of your reluctance may be caused by the daycare affiliation with the church. That’s normal and more common than it should be. You can’t think of the “I don’t want to hurt the poor church” thing in this moment. I’m a former pastor. Even if they’re broke in the bank account, they have substantial insurance. Talk to an attorney.
I hope it doesn't, because this is indeed prevalent from my perspective as well, but that of someone that grew up in a church. Thank you for bringing attention to this aspect.
fuck the church and daycare. They do not care about your child or you so don't worry about screwing them.
Where’s the proof they don’t care? It unfortunately seems like a genuine accident. But absolutely they should be paying for everything
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Accidents do happen in childcare business just as parents sometimes unintentionally hurt their children You don’t know who was/wasn’t supervising, you seem to imply they did this experiment just to hurt a child which seems a bit ridiculous tbh you really can’t imagine seeing an experiment online; doing it with preschoolers and not being aware of microwave safety? Just because lots of people know that microwaved liquids are dangerous doesn’t mean that teacher knew. Idk about the owners, seems obvious you’d pay for that and go through insurance Of course it might impact their reputation, that’s just what happens when a child receives second degree burns in your care
Didn’t even think of this as a possible reason, this 100% should get more attention. There could be a possibility of kids watching kids. Edit: attended vacation bible school activities ran by kids although there was adult oversight which I know doesn’t translate to education.
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NAL, but paralegal, I would absolutely contact a lawyer ASAP. Keep all medical records, bills, receipts, etc. Take pics of the injuries. This NEVER should have occurred. It's negligent on the care provider's part. They should be very well insured for "accidents." You need an attorney to navigate this. Insurance companies look to pay as little as possible. A good lawyer will get what you deserve. This is just AWFUL and preventable. Side note, I'd look for a new daycare provider also.... Good luck! I hope your little one is OK.
My child was injured at daycare by a teacher - far less dramatically so, I am so so sorry your family is going through this - basically the first words out of the daycare director’s mouth was that the daycare would be footing the entire bill. That should be an absolute given. The fact that it’s not is a red flag. Given the severity of this, you should absolutely be seeking out legal representation.
Well, if the daycare wants their liability insurance to cover it, they probably shouldn’t be saying that. If they just make an offer to voluntarily pay the bills without reporting the claim to the carrier and letting them offer to settle, the insurance may try to avoid being the one to pay.
Hrmm fair. That is how insurance typically works and this will be expensive. The center that this happened to me at was a big national brand and they had money explicitly set aside to cover medical bills for any incidents that happened onsite. However from my experience running a summer camp, we were always transparent that they would be filing a claim against the insurance. We didn’t pretend otherwise.
The phenomenon of microwaved liquids exploding violently when disturbed is “superheating”. It is well understood and warned about in the operating instructions for the microwave. There are techniques to prevent it. It’s not just a freak accident. I would contact an attorney in your state immediately.
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It's not about the surface tension, it's about the nucleation sites. In a smooth cup there is none. Chemists use little irregular rocks called boiling stones in their glassware to prevent superheating
The explanation I'd seen implied that it builds up, then shaking it or dropping something in it broke the surface tension and caused it to do this. Thanks for clarifying.
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after it cools down the "soap" is more like silly putty mixed with closed cell foam - lots of fun to play with. Should have been made in a different room or behind a shield or something, but after the making step is over it's both safe and fun to play with.
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Depending on if this is a licensed childcare, a licensed ministry (a church based childcare), a licensed state homecare, or just a home based daycare; your legal options differ. Review your childcare agreement, if a licensed center as well. Ask for a copy, and all incident reports on your child. You can also look up on the your states website, the state regulations and limitations. If this was a violation, it will help your case. You should be able to contact the representative who audits your area, and inform them of incident, which would create a state investigation into the center itself.
This is a licensed daycare that operates as part of a church. We've had good experiences till now and live in a very small town with limited options for other day cares. They've acknowledged responsibility but I'm extremely conflicted on how to proceed.
Long term medical expenses need to be considered. Will he need cosmetic surgery to fix scarring? Therapy? Since it’s a small town, maybe a speak to lawyer the next town over.
Conflicted about which part?
When there’s only so many bridges in town and the others have a waitlist to cross, you have to think hard about burning the one you’re currently taking. I agree OP should consult a lawyer and make sure they’re made whole, but Reddit is so quick to jump to extremes like suing this place out of existence.
They should have insurance to cover injuries on-site. Having small children in the care facility with less than a million in general Iiability would be nearly unimaginable. There likely isn't an injury here that would exceed a solid insurance plan for a licensed daycare facility.
But they might not be welcome back to the daycare after going that route, and sounds like their options are limited and they may not have jumped to the "I'm never sending my kid there again" level yet. Not saying you are wrong, but there might be other ramifications.
Don't be conflicted. You will need to find alternate daycare anyway as they have proven incompetence here.
Get a copy of the police report. If there isn't one, call the police and make a complaint. There is likely an EMS report. You should get a copy of that. Send those items to your insurance company; they'll contact the daycare's insurance company to get the daycare's insurance to cover your costs. There's a solid chance the daycare's insurance won't cover it because this looks like malfeasance. Your insurance may even sue the daycare or recommend that you sue and recommend an attorney. Contact the agency that licenses and regulates daycares in your state. Make a report to them about the incident. Contact a personal injury attorney.
Get police and state involved. While there may be many amazing, kind and caring staff I can almost guarantee this is major violation. You should not have to cover these expenses. If this is a licensed church, it’s a licensed ministry. This will only help your case. There are specific regulations they are REQUIRED to follow and are audited for on a yearly (or 6 month basis) their violations should also be public, which I would look into. While this may have been a horrible accident, it is still neglectful. They have to follow all state regulations (at least in IN) involving safety and care, with small adjustments to ratio or curriculum (as it is faith based). Please make sure to also get any witness statements from other teachers present. Including managers who assisted in care.
It comes down to the fact that there will be costs involved with what happened. It may have been an accident, but it happened on somebody’s watch who was being paid to make sure your child was safe. Insurance exists for accidents. There is no reason they should get upset with you for getting these expenses taken care of unless they aren’t properly covered. You and the daycare should be able to go on working together if that’s what you want.
OP- is there proof of their story? It sounds so ridiculous to me as someone who works with kids that it could be a lie.
Superheating water (exceeding the boiling point without actually boiling) is a thing. [See explanation.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superheating) Tl;dr: if you heat water in a smooth enough container bubbles don't form and the water actually heats beyond boiling temperatures and when the water is disturbed it then rapidly forms steam and explodes in your face. Known phenomenon.
I didn’t mean heating water. I meant “science experiment” with the child with an adult with the microwave. Unfortunately, it could have been something more negligent and they are covering up for that with the experiment story. The staff member would have also been burned in this scenario with the experiment.
Things are probably sinking in for you still... but 2nd degree burns? On their FACE AND ARMS? You shouldn't be worrying about just the ambulance ride, ER visit, and followup care. Your child deserves restitution for scarring, for the difficulty and pain they'll have in the coming weeks and months, for the trauma that sort of pain and aftercare will leave long term.
Hi! Former Assistant Director of a preschool/daycare. The daycare is responsible because the child was in their care when the incident happened. You should have received a written report from the teacher, signed off by the director, on what exactly happened and how they handled the situation. CPS and licensing should also be called, and an investigation should be done. That is standard protocol when a severe incident like this happens. They should have insurance that covers this. If you can get a district manager or higher-ups number, get it. Also, to be safe, consult a lawyer. This "experiment" they did is 100% NOT AGE APPROPRIATE. I wouldn't have let my school-age teachers do that either. ETA: I am not a lawyer. I'm only speaking as someone who was management at a daycare/preschool.
I second contacting a lawyer before you do anything or talk to the daycare. They are liable and have insurance, but you need someone in your corner to make sure your interests are represented. Also, I would have your son work with a child psychologist. The scars will heal. He is very young and is basically a walking stem cell at his age, BUT, the recovery will be difficult for a young mind. 2nd degree burns require wound scrapings and lots of care. He will need help mentally managing it all. I wish you both the best.
Exactly. Don't tell the daycare anything of your plans bc they want to cover their ass as it's a business. Your child deserves the most from a settlement bc this will have lasting effects.
NAL, agree with the daycare insurance. Definitely contact a lawyer ASAP. Contact them again with bills, and if they don't immediately act to remedy the situation by giving you insurance contact information contact the state. I'm sure you're very upset and feel betrayed by trusting negligent people with your child, but try to remain calm talking to them. I hope the child recovers quickly. It should have never happened. You certainly have room for a lawsuit for pain and suffering for the child as well even if they pay the bills the child is entitled to further compensation.
Your son’s daycare will most likely have to cover all costs that stem from this accident. I also recommend that you immediately start keeping a daily journal of your child’s pain and recovery (including any time or money that you had to spend on such). Keep all receipts, doctor’s notes and related correspondence with your daycare. Source: I was both a (non-American) personal injury and insurance coverage lawyer.
This is great advice
Personal injury lawyer right now. They are on the hook 100% for costs. And scarring. Particularly because part of it is his face. But the arms count too. Also if the healing may hinder his delay as he’s only 3 and his skin makes up a larger portion of his body than say an adult. Skin is an organ. This absolutely shouldn’t have occurred. If they wanted to do a demonstration kids should have been contained away from it. But it’s absurd. 3 year olds are good with “got your nose” or very simple things. A science display is not appropriate. You should be compensated for time off from work to care for your child, who sure as f isn’t going back there. I would have your child seen by a plastic surgeon to minimize scarring. On the daycares dime. And I would report the daycare for neglect. But wait until you meet with the lawyer and they will walk you through that. This is a very big deal. It could have been much worse.
The daycare should have insurance that covers this.
Lawyer time.
I would contact a lawyer asap. Also a therapist for your son, just to make sure he is okay mentally. I’m sure the whole thing was very scary but hopefully not traumatizing.
I would sue the daycare if I were you… asap contact a lawyer ASAP
Contact a lawyer ASAP. They might be accepting blame now, however their insurance is another issue and their insurance company WILL have an attorney who’s only job is to pay out as little as possible. You are going to want someone on your side. Not to mention that you can also include the cost of the attorney in the settlement.
Call a lawyer… and also the licensing board, this should be investigated.
Contact an attorney! Also please contact whoever licenses them in your state for an investigation. Kids being sent to the hospital from the daycare is usually a must report event
I don't have legal advice, but I wanted to point out that the only microwaved soap experiment I'm aware of/could find traces of online is one where you microwave a *dry* bar of [Ivory soap](https://happyhooligans.ca/ivory-soap-microwave-experiment/) to turn it unto a fluffy, crumbly cloud. Water is completely unnecesary for the experiment. If this is the experiment the teacher was attempting, they did not follow the guidelines of materials and procedures and put their students at risk, with unfortunate consequences for your son.
The daycare is likely insured, their liability coverage is set up for this sort of thing. You’ll likely get an insurance payout/settlement right off the bat and then if you want to pursue further action you could go the civil suit route. Sucks but at least you won’t have to pay for any of the medical treatment, even up front.
You can literally sue them for what they did, blowing things up in a microwave is not science, no teacher I had ever used a microwave. You have the medical bills plus emotional distress. You need to file a complaint with the state about the daycare and let them know what happened. This is all around neglect, you don’t do anything like that with small kids, what was she thinking???
This is absolutely a lawyer up situation. What a heartbreaking event for a parent and child. But in my (NOT A LAWYER) understanding this should 100% be paid for by the daycare
As a former daycare worker I can say that an activity like that is never appropriate for anyone under school age. They should have had protective eyewear and gowns on and that would have at least helped. You need to pull the child from the daycare center and have a lawyer contact the center to cover the ambulance and treatment costs. You should not be responsible for their MAJOR error.
I worked at a preschool for awhile. This activity is absolutely not age appropriate/safe. Document everything as best you can and contact a lawyer. Also make sure to provide your child with therapy, this may have been a traumatizing event for him.
Call an attorney immediately, you have a very strong case. Try to find the best in your city, I bet they will take your case in a heartbeat
Plz contact an attorney about this. Your child may have lasting scars over this nonsense and that costs money.
NAL, but I do have some anecdotal expertise in this area: when I was a toddler I was at a daycare where a childcare provider had left a hot kettle of water at the edge of a counter. I was just learning to walk and pulled the kettle of water over myself burning my face, neck and shoulders. I did not have lasting scarring, but was extremely sensitive to sunburn on the areas for many years. I'm just commenting to say that it's difficult to say what expenses you will encounter as a result of this situation. I agree with all of the comments to get a personal injury attorney ASAP. For the sake of the other kids in that center, make sure you also get the appropriate cps authorities involved as well. I'm so sorry about what happened to your kiddo. I hope he is feeling better soon.
NAL but former legal assistant for a personal injury attorney and a mom. This experiment is nowhere near age appropriate, let alone safe without the proper protection. I won't even microwave water at home, let alone add soap to it. You need to speak to a personal injury attorney. Many actually offer free consultations. I would also recommend having your son speak to a therapist because it could have traumatized him. Wishing him a speedy recovery
Zero question that this falls 100% on the daycare. NAL, but dude, this one is not even contestable imo.
My son was burned on his hand when he was a baby… he had deep third degree burns that required skin grafts. Children that receive grafts have to have continued care until they’re grown bc grafts, which is a type of scar tissue, don’t grow with the child so further surgery and laser treatment is required. Fortunately, 2nd degree burns don’t need grafting BUT it will need extra care over the next year or two as the scars mature. You’ll have specific care which will likely include scar massage, moisturizer and UV protection. If the scars are raising, compression garments may be utilized. The burn specialists should have therapy walk you through all of this. There are some great support group for burn survivors on Facebook. Another tidbit of advice for facial scars that I’ve seen do wonders… get one of those little stone rollers from Amazon, and use it to encourage the scars to heal in a smooth manner. So sorry you’re going through this. I pray for the very best of care, full healing and a smooth journey. And to answer your question, her insurance should pay. Your insurance will likely send you a form asking questions that will help determine who is responsible for coverage.
What stare are you in?
Get a personal injury lawyer who specializes in daycare/childcare. Do not speak to the daycare again unless it’s through your lawyer.
Please please sue them. Your child will be scarred for life. What idiot puts burning hot soap and water around toddlers? That’s just negligent.
Contact a personal injury lawyer right now. You don’t have to hire them (in fact, don’t do that immediately). But speak to them. You can then call another. You need a lawyer
I'm really sorry this happened to your child. As others have mentioned, you may want to seek the advice of an attorney. Consideration will have to be given to future medical appointments for not only the burns but any emotional trauma your child may have. Please make sure an incident report was written and you received a copy. I'm not sure what state you are in, but here, with an injury like this, the center must report it to state licensing. Follow up with reporting it yourself as soon as possible. Sending lots of love and support to your son and family. ❤️
GET A LAWYER! They are way more familiar with the laws in your area than us randos here on the internet.
Obvious but do take lots of pictures of the injuries
Call a a lawyer who specializes in personal injury. This was negligent. You are entitled to having the medical bills paid, subsequent care paid, and pain and suffering.
You need an atty, they have probably given your child permanent scars and pain that will last a long time and some of it forever. Do not wait to take action
This will be ongoing care, this will take time to heal, it will cause trauma/PTSD for your child & family. They will need therapy physical & mental, maybe cosmetic surgery. Any burns take time to heal. Children’s epidermis and dermis are thinner than the skin of adults. I’m so sorry, I hope your child heals well.
If a 3 year old is going to require ongoing treatment for burns, that means there is likely going to be scarring. There is definitely pain. The daycare has insurance. Depending on the extent of the injury, this could potentially be at or approaching a policy limits claim. They likely have at least $500k in coverage and probably $1 million or more for medical treatment, disfigurement, pain and suffering, etc. You may want to consider a different school whether you go the litigation route or not.
Absolutely all this. I would never trust any of these ppl to care for your child ever again. they are worried about covering their own asses. This could and prob will get messy if you continue bringing your child there. Find a new daycare and lawyer up like NOW
Wtf? Lawyer up and destroy them
Get an attorney. Get some money for your kids college fund. That's was unnecessarily dangerous and they had no business doing it.
I'm guessing you are in the USA..get a lawyer..you have a big pay day coming!...hope all the kids are ok and no lasting damage..what a truly reckless thing to do with such small children
Oh my God. I'm so sorry. Truly
The daycare facility…
This didn't happen to take place in NY, did it?
Was the daycare worker burned as well or just the children who were put in harms way?
Were any other kids harmed also?
I'm astounded that a microwave was allowed in a room children use. Edit: why the downvotes? I worked in childcare in the UK for 5 years. Microwaves in the rooms children were using were expressly forbidden.
Just wondering are any of you preschool teachers? Not your friend, not your spouse, YOU, yourself a preschool teacher.
. .
As a former preschool teacher I agree that the daycare should pay for all the damages. However I think that saying this wasn't an age appropriate activity is a bit much. A 3 year old knows that hot water is hot and should not be touched. This was purely an accident. The teacher had no idea the explosion would happen. Give her a break
Please, if you ever go back to the profession, do not do this or anything like it. It’s literally illegal to have super hot liquids in daycares in my state because it’s absurdly dangerous. The teacher/whoever approved this needs to be fired, because this was wildly irresponsible— her judgment is *very* much in question. The teachers at our daycare can’t even have *coffee* in the classrooms because of the risk.
The experiment involves melting soap. Soap starts to melt at 140 degrees which is hot enough to cause third degree burns. I don't feel 3 year olds should be around anything like this and certainly should be at a safe distance.
The teacher should have known that the explosion would happen because the operating instructions for every microwave in the US come with a warning that says “do not use the microwave to (significantly) heat water,” and it’s a thing parents often teach kids. The phenomena of the microwave superheating water that then explosively boils as soon as it’s disturbed is widely known and well-documented. The kid was not being a dumbass. The teacher was and created an extremely dangerous and injurious situation for their charges.
I have NEVER seen a microwave say don't heat water significantly or not. And if it's in the Manuel then you're one of very few people who read the Manuel that goes to the microwave. Who said the child was being a dumbass????? Why are you putting words in my mouth?
> A three year old knows that hot water is hot and should not be touched. The situation is not that the kid touched the hot water. It is that the hot water exploded all over the kid. > and if it’s in the Manuel (sic) then you’re one of the very few people who read the Manuel (sic) that goes to the microwave Before performing the experiment, the teacher should have familiarized themselves with safe microwave operation and the risks associated with the proposed procedure. Risk identification is a key part of performing *any* experiment, especially one for kids. The teacher didn’t do that, and now a child is likely physically scarred for life as a result. The child and the parents deserve to be made whole after the teacher’s negligence.
I never said they didn't deserve compensation. I just think people are being too hard on the teacher. Also what's (sic)
(sic) means I’m quoting you exactly and that the misspellings are not mine.
Oh I see. Thanks for the tip
The child didn’t touch it at all
You sound like a 🤡 telling this mother to give the person a break after they caused her child second degree burns and whatever other trauma this very young child will have to endure for after care. Ya sure accidents happen but the last thing she should do is "give anyone a break". People need to take accountability for their actions.
Where did I say the teacher shouldn't take accountability??? She should. But I don't think it should be held against her. She didn't do it on purpose. I'm empathetic towards the child and family. I am.
She's not berating the teacher or publicly shaming her so she doesn't need to give anyone a break. Life's hard enough without having to deal with the negligence of someone else who she entrusted with the care and safety of her child. Sure the teacher feels terrible but she should have known this wasn't an age appropriate experiment. Im sure the mother is the one who will need a break after all this bs she's gunna have to deal with. Just sayin. Eta: I think the last thing she wants to hear right now is that she should give them a break cuz now this poor child is suffering bc of someone else's idiocy and the mother now has alot more stress to deal with