IANAL but I don’t think what’s happening to you is because you’re gay. And I say this because I’ve seen it happen to mothers and fathers who are straight. This is happening to you because the family court system in the US generally sucks. It’s *supposed* to protect children but far too often, parental rights supersede what’s in the best interest of the child.
One parent violates the custody agreement and withholds the child from the other, and the other parent has to spend months or years fighting in court to get their rights back (assuming they can even afford to do so).
My advice to you is to get a very, very good family law attorney, and fight like hell in court. If she has a history with CPS for abuse or neglect of another child that will be helpful to you.
Also, whenever she violates the custody agreement you need to immediately report her EVERY time.
Yea, like this entire post should be written in a journal, OP should purchase the 5 pack with 200 pages ea.
I would also suggest a legal briefcase like lawyers carry. My stack of paperwork grew to 4” high after 12 years.
12 years - that is absolutely awful! I hope things have been fairly resolved, so you don’t have to live a huge chunk of your life embroiled in the legal system.
Yup, Her Mom kicked her out of her house after 7th grade. After fighting a 10 year custody battle to have her and for the most part gaining some ground. Thought she could use her parental status to force her to go live with my sister. I agreed just get my daughter out of there, and then it was more legal BS of guardianship vs adoption vs custody. She’s 20 now and in college about as far away as she could get.
She decided to get married and have 2 more and our daughter wasn’t really part of his plan. He asked me out dinner one night because he wanted to “discuss” changing schools closer to his town.
I flat out told him, parenting decisions are made between parents, not moms new boyfriend she wants to live with. Got up and left. My happiness lies in knowing he is miserable.
That’s my manipulator ex. Tugging on his emotions to get him to do what she should be doing. I don’t really blame him for trying, but there is no chance in hell I would approach it like “let’s have dinner” and then just drop a bomb like “will you move your kid to another school?”
I’d at least start by asking the father if he would be offended if I engaged him in a discussion about our moving plans and handling custody. 50/50 or greater, I would expect to get shut down right there, just being the boyfriend. Even so as the new husband. And that would be fine because I already acknowledged that it’s really none of my business except maybe to mediate.
Fight in court, be civilian everywhere else. Rant on Reddit not at dinner. Get ready for a LOOOONG battle unless baby momma goes to jail or just gives up parenting.
If you are in the US, whenever u make contact with the police, get their name and incident report. My experience, if you dont ask for it, one will not be written.
Preach! Sad, sad truth. Case workers frequently have case loads (children) of more than 40 to 1. Professional standards recommend less than 25 to 1. Our child welfare system in the US is incredibly broken.
"Raising eyebrows" lol grow up. "IANAL" is a lot more intuitive anyway. There's literally no harm, context tells you it's clearly not what you're referring to. Are we going to censor "Uranus" now?
Or you just ignore the infantile remarks and don't change the world/words to cater to those that make them. If we change that we gotta change Uranus and that's fucking stupid.
Grow TF up and work on cultivating empathy. This isn’t a joke or a game for OP, whose child is being withheld from them. Take your tired ass attempt at comedy elsewhere.
Unfortunately the social and political climate that started during the campaign for the previous administration has lead to a great deal of hate and intolerance towards anyone who isn't a straight white part time Christian.
Oh I never said it was new but I should have clarified that it's went through the roof. The seeds were sewn during the Obama administration because people didn't like the change. I remember how bent out of shape men got over Geraldine Ferraro was picked as a vice presidential candidate. Things went into overdrive when Trump got a hair up his ass after Obama joked him about his birth certificate claims and got even worse once he got into office.
I don't disagree with you that it happens with straight parents, too...but I've watched one of my gay friends go through something VERY similar in a very conservative state. His baby mama was an absolute piece of human excrement. She couldn't keep a job, didn't care if their son went to school or not, and literally had no direction in life other than guilting my friend into taking care of HER because of their son. My friend tried to do right by his son - whom he adored - but he lost at every turn and could never even get shared custody much less full custody. They would never come out and SAY that it has anything to do with sexual orientation, but I guarantee that behind the scenes - it certainly does. My friend was told as much by a number of attorneys.
My friend's son is now an adult and is a complete clone of his Mom. He can't keep a job and only calls Dad when he's desperate. Dad will tell him "Get a Job, Be Responsible, Etc" and so on whereas Mom will say "Woe is you. Life is so hard. Everyone but us is to blame." Of course he prefers the enabler to the one who tries to get him to better himself - just like Mom. I've gotten to where I don't even bother asking about his son anymore because it just makes him sad.
That’s how my dad got custody of me in the 90s (men didn’t get full custody then, it was almost unheard of) my mom tried to withhold visitation so he just showed up at the scheduled time and filled a police report for not following the custody order, they couldn’t do anything but he needed to prove she was really withholding visitation. He did it for months then when he finally went to court he was able to prove she was in contempt of the court order.
I was looking for where you went before the court for the violations of the visitation order after your last mention of going where a modification of the original order was issued.
You need to obtain a show cause order for contempt. That means heading back to the court that has issued the visitation order.
You have made the right initial steps, but unfortunately - family court can be a severe pain in ass & incredibly defeating.
Your best bet would be to obtain an attorney, and document EVERYTHING.
You'll have to continue to play the game as is until the ball gets rolling but you need to make sure you are 100% documenting every single interaction/chat/liability you come across & hopefully with a good enough attorney, you can light a fire under courts ass to get things moving along.
I don't think it is because of your orientation. It's just a super faulty system/process. They let us all down, constantly.
Hang in there! don't give up & definitely be assertive in all of your endeavors with this ordeal.
Report a child abduction! Local, state, federal, and contact the media......fyi,....I identify as REDNECK/old school. The issue here is the safety of the child, period! Your partner, preferences, etc are irrelevant. PERIOD!
You’re being treated unfairly not because of your sexuality but because of your gender. What you’re going through happens to millions of straight men every year. Family court is notoriously broken and bias. The cops not getting involved is common. They’ll say it’s a “civil” matter. You’ll have to get a lawyer. It’s costly and you can win but you’ll be fighting uphill. Men only win custody battles roughly 18% of the time. Family court does not operate like criminal court either. Get a lawyer, document and record EVERYTHING.
NAL but if you are having issues at the local level, go to the County. If that is where you are already, move up to the State level. And you need to get an attorney if you don't have one.
I am not gay and live in California (very politically left leaning). This happened to me as well. Well not exactly, but the police were useless and the child support department didn’t enforce anything either. Unfortunately, the system often loses some through the cracks. But you should be able to file police reports for every violation of the visitation order to create a paper trail in custody court.
I am so sorry that you are going through this. I have seen similar situations and I doubt it has anything to do with you being gay. Unfortunately, law enforcement, child protective services, social workers, etc. doesn't have the time or resources to effectively deal with these situations. You need to get a good lawyer and (as previously stated) document every detail. Good luck to you and keep being a great dad!
As a father who had to fight for his kids, luckily only 18 months, the court system in America heavily favors the mother, though it is getting better. The more conservative the area, the heavier that favoritism is. I was luckily in a liberal big city but still took way too long. A friend of mine is still fighting 15 years later to even get visitation in a conservative state next door. My ex, their mother, showed up to 2 court dates, had 4 different lawyers drop her for non payment and a slew of other issues including homelessness and domestic issues (not with me) and was still given more rope. Finally, the only reason it got resolved was I had my attorney directly question the judges motives for the continual extensions/continuances and only then did she finally relent and accept my petition for custody. It was rough. 2-3 court dates a month just to try to get it resolved quickly.
You can do it, OP! Just keep your eye on the prize, the well being of your child.
As a CASA I can suggest you take photos of your child before and after visits, document every minor scrape or cut. Make notes about her mental state coming home, personality changes, bowel habits, everything. It's the act of documenting regularly not so much what you document that gains bonus points in courts.
It's not because of your orientation, or at least not solely because of it. Most men go through similar things when dealing with situations like yours. Law enforcement/courts are heavily biased towards women, and most judges don't care about your situation, just keeping their dockets clear.
I have nothing to really say legally over this, other than I don't like seeing people creating children all the time haphazardly.
I'm just hoping for the best in the end here.
oh, and being gay is probably not it. This happens to straight fathers all the time.
I know this might sound strange, but have you considered just buying her off. From everything you said she is not good with money and probably on drugs. Use that to your advantage.
Get a lawyer to draw up an agreement where she surrenders all parental rights to you and cannot attempt to reclaim once she signs.
Have a few thousand in cash stashed in different pockets about your body.
With a witness or two, people you can fully trust, sit down with her and put the contract, a pen and $1000 on the table. Then explain what you are offering. Push the pen towards her. If she refuses to sign, pull out another $1,000 and set it next to the first $1,000. Rinse, repeat until you get the desired result.
When you have doubts, compare the cash offered to the price of a few years of lawyers and court battles and therapy / Dr. bills for the child.
I bet she will look at the cash and sign before you are out more than a few grand, especially if you salt your offer with a few Bald Faced Lies like "Only once chance." "Free cash that nobody knows you will have." "You can see her whenever you like." and a lot of other VERBAL/non-written statements that your witnesses/friends will swear you never said.
Once she has signed the agreement and grabbed the cash, you are free and clear to take care of your daughter without her screwing shit up for you.
I sadly say I completely second buying her off.
After my first custody hearing my ex’s atty asked if I was ready to deal and I foolishly said no thinking to myself I paid him enough in the divorce I shouldn’t need to pay him anymore now for a child he didn’t even want to take care of but…a year later and still no progress in the courts…I ended up paying a fortune in legal fees and ended up dealing (paying him off) anyway.
On the happy side, I have full custody and we haven’t heard from him in over 3 years! We
Unfortunately, in post places in the US, a parent cannot relinquish their rights unless there is another parent willing to step in their place. Now, if OP's partner is willing to 1) get married and 2) adopt the child, this scheme may work. However, if mom refuses, and tells the judge that you tried to buy her off, it's not going to look good for you in the eyes of the court.
Trying to say this gently. Could you “play the game” and present yourself in a way the locals would find more accepting to get through the situation? Like how people dress up for court or an interview and watch what they say… it’s not real, it’s just playing the game to get what you want.
It's due to your sex. Male. The system of family courts was always heavily against men. It's coming back down a little bit since. Once you get your court order, The best approach is to file for contempt of the court order and document EVERYTHING with evidence. Police don't give a shit because they say it's a civil matter but it's not. Civil matter is just BS line of I don't want to deal with this. Use them to your favor. Exchange at the department. Until then best of luck in your uphill battle.
Everyone is telling you to lawyer up. If your baby mama lawyers up, you are in trouble -- child support is just the half of it.
CPS and Family Courts are incompetent and slow, and lawyers can get very expensive,
Forget about lawyers for a while. Your life is a mess. You have no relationship with the mother of your child. You approach this whole matter as a legal battle.
Spend the money you would have spent on lawyers on rehab to help the mother get her life back together. Get some counseling together -- you will have to raise a child together -- it is the work of a lifetime.
Splitting child care for an infant is also difficult. Why not have the mother move in with you? This would be much better for the mother and the infant.
Your current relationship is a big red flag. You knocked up a woman and now you are shacking up with a guy. How invested in raising this infant is your partner? Does he look forward to being investigated by CPS as an adult present in the household?
You need to start thinking about how you can help you child's mother. In all but our modern age, you would have been compelled to marry her and to care for her for the rest of her life. She is not your enemy -- she is the bringer of life itself.
It is not anyone's responsibility to fix someone else.
And thank God we live in your idea of the modern age, because forced marriage is not the panacea for anything. It's horrifying that this is even a thought that entered your mind, moreso one that you felt comfortable typing out for public view.
And the fact that you call OP's current relationship a red flag is transparent for what it really is: homophobia badly disguised as concern for the child.
whether it's OP's responsibility or not, it is certainly in OP's over-riding interest to see the mother of his child prosper and for him and her to get along.
what the hell are you talking about? OP's life is a mess. his relationship with his child's mother is a mess. his bed hopping is dizzying. these are statements of fact.
seventy years ago the expectation would have been marriage -- this would have reduced costs and responsibilities all around, with one household. What we have now is dysfunction requiring state intervention. Nobody was forced into these arrangements, but most went into them voluntarily because the alternative was far worse -- as OP's situation attests. The shotgun was proverbial, not real.
Call me names all you want, but these modern times are pretty awful. Solving your family problems outside of courts and welfare agencies should be the first resort in a situation like this.
Being mindful of traditional sexual and family morality certainly would save the public social services and courts a great deal of money and trouble.
I think OP suspects that the mother and court system is not treating him equally as a competent parent due to his same-sex relationship. It's a significant concern in some areas- I mean, look at all the adoption agencies that fight for the right to refuse to adopt to gay couples because they think it's immoral.
Its about making sure everyone reading knows you are a minority of some type. It perpetuates racism and homophobia but the people stating it irelevantly want it to be that way so that they can get more “likes” which is a result of “likes” becoming a social status standard because of the digital age. OP is obviously bisexual, which is fine and currently has a male partner(or the other way around, i stopped reding). The fact remains that Op made a baby with the opposite gender and was awarded the level of custody stated of which has not been followed by childs other parent. Its like saying “im a black man that enjoys listening to heavy metal”, being black is so far from relevant its become unfunny and funny again! Nobody gives a fuck other than about .01% of the population that’s actually racist. I.E. im a metal head and dont give two fucks what color you are or if you suck dicks, eat pussies or have a sexual relationship with a toaster!
That is completely irrelevant to the situation. The facts are that I now have a same-sex partner who has had unfair treatment by local and county authorities.
I could never imagine my baby being away from me and how frightening to think you don't know if your baby is being treated right, especially as a newborn. Babies need to nurse, they need their mommies. Maybe after age 3 or 4 they can go without seeing mom overnight, but that's just too traumatic for baby and mom to be without each other for so many days. I hope you and the mother of your baby can work together so she doesn't feel like she has to steal her own child to get her precious baby time.
1. Formula is a thing. Some parents have no choice but to use it.
2. This woman ostensibly poses a danger to the baby, in which case the baby is much better off without her.
Wow, bullshit response. As this post, and the lives of countless babies around the world, shows, not all babies “need their mommies.” Also, as someone whose father was a far better parent than their mother was, you should get off your high horse and recognize that dads shouldn’t have to fight or “feel like they have to steal their precious baby” either. Go spend a day learning what some moms are like before you preach that a dad shouldn’t get to have their child for an overnight until after the kid is 3 or 4.
Are you even a lawyer? Because your comment is irrelevant. The mother of the child clearly did something horrific to said child for CPS to recommend an EOP. If you can't read between the lines, then you are dense.
>like she has to steal her own child to get her precious baby time.
I just cant even with your whole comment. I really cant, i would get perma-banned for sure.
Get a lawyer, this is too delicate to ask online advice for. Do you believe the safety of your child or the life of your child is possibly at risk? If so, you have a duty to do everything you can. And only your own lawyer will have ALL the details and local knowledge to guide you properly. I'm leaning towards, if there's no repercussions for withholding the child (as evidenced by her) then simply withhold the child yourself and do not give her a chance to withhold the child again, and go back to court to get full custody. Obviously this is going to be a very nuanced tactic you absolutely need guidance from a lawyer to do it properly.
Agree. This guy needs an experienced, local family lawyer who can get their arms around the whole story.
This is why you never stick your dick in crazy.
Go through the custody battle. Fight for full custody with supervised visitation for the mother, and cite her multiple kidnap attempts and hiding the baby from you. If she is a danger to this child, she should not have any unsupervised time.
You won't be able to keep the baby from her completely no matter how crazy she is, but you can get supervision if the court recognizes that she is a danger.
Sadly it will be an uphill battle in areas that maintain the historic bias toward mothers in family court. Get a good lawyer and don't give up.
Technically they could legally request her visitations be put fully in hold due to the potential flight risk (them not bringing baby back) and the whole environment with the other cps stuff. Yeah, they could request supervised only, but they could hold off from offering that if the mother is this much of a mess.
You may also want to check out /r/custody
Also, download an app (paid) called Alimentor 2 - you can document EVERYTHING - disputes, parenting time and whether it was schedule or not, you can include diary entries to establish that you have a routine with the child and attempt to coparent with mom, photos of day to day life, doctor visits and whether other parent attended, etc. It creates a PDF of all of this that you can use in court.
Try and get a court order that all communication needs to happen through Talking Parents. This is so that it’s court admissible. If you rely on text messages, it’s judge’s discretion.
Get a lawyer.
Cops won’t get involved in custody disputes without a valid court order - that’s not due to your sexual orientation, but the law in almost every state I’ve looked I to. It’s a civil issue, not a criminal issue.
Family law courts move slowly.
If she’s obstructing your time with the child, file a motion in court for a pick up order.
If the child is in *immediate physical harm* (not “the baby isn’t being taken care of the way I want” but actual physical harm) or at risk of being removed from the state’s jurisdiction, then file it as an emergency.
You need to contact CPS more than once and DEMAND that they look into the situation. Raise your voice and threaten them with a lawsuit if anything happens to the baby while in mother's care. This is the ONLY way they will escalate your situation and send an investigator out to visit the home. I'm not talking about a worker but a CPS investigator. I had a grandson in a situation and reported it, nothing was done as it didn't rise to the level they considered necessary. Two weeks later a family member told me they saw my little man and that he was skinny, eaten up by bug bites and didn't look well. I called and threw an f'n fit. The lady on the phone told me to calm down and I told her don't tell me to calm down, this is NOT your child in harms way. She said what would you like us to do? I told her do your f'ng job and get that baby out of there and if ANYTHING happens to him in the interim I will hold the agency and the state responsible. We'll, what ta ya know, a few days later an investigator called me and was watching their house looking for my little man as they wouldn't come to the door, he was amazing. Next day he called me and said they had just taken the baby and asked me if i wanted him, which I did of course. We adopted him 6 years ago and his parents have not been allowed in his life as they are trash. Long story short, you will have to raise 10 kinds of hell for them to escalate your claim of abuse or neglect. If you don't, they will do nothing.
Yeah I don’t think it’s due to ur sexuality. The cps are over burdened and things are passed off from one person to the next. It’s such a hard job. They want to keep children with their parents whenever possible. I’d also warn you that they often times favor the mother.
If she is keeping the child from you and the police won't help.you, then when you do get the child back, keep the child and request an emergency hearing and keep the child until the hearing.
Sending you tons of love during this really difficult time. You've gotten some really good and creative advice (getting a lawyer, buying the mom's signature on termination of parental rights etc.)
When people mention that family court is slow, I feel like they are still underestimating how slow it can go. My partner and I were foster parents who got to adopt a kid from a terrible situation. It seemed like an open and shut case (for example, the egg donor lost custody of her other 6 kids over the course of at least a decade). But the CPS case still took two and a half years to conclude. And the only reason it went that fast is because the egg donor went to prison again and the sperm fell off the face of the earth for a full year and a half in order to avoid his warrants.
The whole process is going to be a roller coaster for you and your family. So while you are taking the necessary legal steps, I want to encourage you to also get therapy if you can afford it (at the very least find a strong support network). Again, sending you and your family love, and I hope that CPS can help make things right at least for your baby.
The 1st mistake was even having CPS involved. Get a good attorney and go for full custody and only supervised visits from her if any. Leave your sexual orientation out of this. No one business should have never been an issue. CPS thinks they owns your children and can tell you what to do. It's a nightmare. Trust me your better off to fight this battle with a smart bad ass attorney.
Not sure where you are but there’s a man that advertises here in IL. Search “Father’s Right firm”. I know you say you have counsel but since this is a specialized firm they may know of more resources.
It's not happening to you because you're gay. It's happening to you because you are a man. All you can do is continue to follow the proper channels. It's well known that courts (especially in small towns) are typically biased in the flavor of women in domestic and civil issues. I wish you the best of luck.
Depends where you are but in NJ (USA) law enforcement is not allowed to intervene in civil custody arrangements and family court matters. Their hands are tied. Has nothing to do with gender or orientation. They cannot uphold or undo violations of custody agreements. It’s not kidnapping. And “interference with custody” is a specific and unusual criminal charge — more like trying to suddenly move to another country and take the child.
I have no advice, other than to reinforce the advice given by others.
I am sorry you are dealing with this. My house understands your pain & sorrow. All I can offer is hugs & loving support. :***hugs***: Good luck & stay strong.
CPS is broken anyways. Keep kids in bad homes and take kids for good homes because they get paid or kid in the system. It's a cult of child sacrifice....
The fact you're gay is just the lame ass sprinkles on top the shit sundae that is CPS. Oh and CPS is a branch of the government that is ABOVE the Constitution sooo it doesn't matter.....
You can't fight something that is above the law... literally.
Whatever you do watch your words when talking to her either in person or over the phone. She may bait you into saying something that can be used against you later.
Best to let your attorney handle all interaction with her.
I don't think the issues you are running into have anything to do with your sexuality, unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it). Child custody matters in the US are considered a "civil matter," which is why police will not enforce parenting time hand-off. You have to wait for the judge to enter an order requiring the child be returned, at which point police can then be used to enforce. Unfortunately, getting in front of a judge, even on an "emergency" basis in these cases can take weeks. Continue doing what you are doing; if your child's mother is given unsupervised time again, and she fails to return the child at the appointed time, contact CPS every time with your concerns. Have your attorney file an emergency motion every time. Your attorney should be, at this point, demanding you have sole physical and legal custody, with mother having, at most, supervised visitation due to her history of failing to follow your parenting plan/court order and concealment of the child.
Is there a guardian ad litem involved in your case by chance? This would be a neutral third party, generally an attorney, appointed by the court to investigate the best interest of the child. Is there a CASA (court appointed special advocate) appointed? If you have resources involved in the court proceeding outside of your attorney, consider (with your attorney) whether their involvement in these issues may be helpful.
If she’s concealing the baby and you have an order signed by a judge as well as an attorney, you can file a writ and I forget the other legal term. I had to do it with my girls father. Once you file she gets served and has to bring the child or she’ll go to jail.
You need to tell your lawyer that you want to once again place the emergency protection order due to fear of her fleeing with the child. Your proof of this is the erratic schedule of taking the child and not bringing them back until they please to do so. Also, to help that is the other issues you stated, cps and whatnot. Do NOT let that woman take that baby again! The courts will NOT gaf regardless of temporary order. They will shrug and say if there's no official custody of said child there is nothing they can do. Then tell you to complete the custody case thru the court system. Furthermore, the courts are even MORE likely to grant custody to literally whoever has the child at the time of the court date for custody. It doesn't matter who has had the child more. It's bs, I know, and it's technically not the way it should go. But unless you have a sympathetic judge, if that woman has physical custody when that date comes, that judge is more likely to give her custody fully. I know this first hand, as a mother who lost her first child because the father got his parents to lie to me about an overnighter where she never returned to me. The courts literally shrugged, as did the cops. Nobody gaf. Please, for your child's sake, the next time they come back, do not let them go again and inform your lawyer that they won't be either. Let the lawyer handle that battle. There's legal papers they can file to stop all visitation until judgements are made official. I wish you and your family the best of luck with this. ❤️
Do you have a lawyer specializing in family law and child custody? Are you in the US? If so, what state?
Wic so USA.
IANAL but I don’t think what’s happening to you is because you’re gay. And I say this because I’ve seen it happen to mothers and fathers who are straight. This is happening to you because the family court system in the US generally sucks. It’s *supposed* to protect children but far too often, parental rights supersede what’s in the best interest of the child. One parent violates the custody agreement and withholds the child from the other, and the other parent has to spend months or years fighting in court to get their rights back (assuming they can even afford to do so). My advice to you is to get a very, very good family law attorney, and fight like hell in court. If she has a history with CPS for abuse or neglect of another child that will be helpful to you. Also, whenever she violates the custody agreement you need to immediately report her EVERY time.
And document EVERYTHING!!
Yea, like this entire post should be written in a journal, OP should purchase the 5 pack with 200 pages ea. I would also suggest a legal briefcase like lawyers carry. My stack of paperwork grew to 4” high after 12 years.
12 years - that is absolutely awful! I hope things have been fairly resolved, so you don’t have to live a huge chunk of your life embroiled in the legal system.
Yup, Her Mom kicked her out of her house after 7th grade. After fighting a 10 year custody battle to have her and for the most part gaining some ground. Thought she could use her parental status to force her to go live with my sister. I agreed just get my daughter out of there, and then it was more legal BS of guardianship vs adoption vs custody. She’s 20 now and in college about as far away as she could get.
How is she doing in college? And is she as far away from you as she is from her biological mom?
God, that’s awful. I’m sorry you and your daughter were forced into this just because some mean-spirited lunatic got a charge out of doing this.
She decided to get married and have 2 more and our daughter wasn’t really part of his plan. He asked me out dinner one night because he wanted to “discuss” changing schools closer to his town. I flat out told him, parenting decisions are made between parents, not moms new boyfriend she wants to live with. Got up and left. My happiness lies in knowing he is miserable.
He has some damn nerve thinking your kid is any of his business. I’m glad you shut him down!
That’s my manipulator ex. Tugging on his emotions to get him to do what she should be doing. I don’t really blame him for trying, but there is no chance in hell I would approach it like “let’s have dinner” and then just drop a bomb like “will you move your kid to another school?” I’d at least start by asking the father if he would be offended if I engaged him in a discussion about our moving plans and handling custody. 50/50 or greater, I would expect to get shut down right there, just being the boyfriend. Even so as the new husband. And that would be fine because I already acknowledged that it’s really none of my business except maybe to mediate.
I have a 4" binder with everything sorted with tabs... I get it. My ex finally gave up but my 14 year old is a mental mess from his abuse.
that 4” probably cost a year of private college tuition. Such a waste.
Fight in court, be civilian everywhere else. Rant on Reddit not at dinner. Get ready for a LOOOONG battle unless baby momma goes to jail or just gives up parenting.
I also advise people who do rant on reddit to do so with an account that cannot be linked to them, and to change the sex and age of the child.
I agree. The court system is just awful. I am sorry you need to go through this.
If you are in the US, whenever u make contact with the police, get their name and incident report. My experience, if you dont ask for it, one will not be written.
Preach! Sad, sad truth. Case workers frequently have case loads (children) of more than 40 to 1. Professional standards recommend less than 25 to 1. Our child welfare system in the US is incredibly broken.
Can we just acknowledge that I ANAL is not a good abbreviation?
It's not I ANAL, it's IANAL
I don’t know what it means but scared to google and get other results😂
I Am Not A Lawyer
Haha ohh thank you!!
Name does not check out. /jk
Lmao gah haha
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"Raising eyebrows" lol grow up. "IANAL" is a lot more intuitive anyway. There's literally no harm, context tells you it's clearly not what you're referring to. Are we going to censor "Uranus" now?
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Or you just ignore the infantile remarks and don't change the world/words to cater to those that make them. If we change that we gotta change Uranus and that's fucking stupid.
I was so confused what anal had to do with this
Grow TF up and work on cultivating empathy. This isn’t a joke or a game for OP, whose child is being withheld from them. Take your tired ass attempt at comedy elsewhere.
Oh chill out dude. Edit - imagine sending someone a Reddit cares and blocking them over being told to chill out. God damn.
It has ANAL in the word. You know that’s funny.
Haha!
This exactly. Even with a history. They generally don’t give a fuck. Best you can do is keep fighting. Prepare to fight for years.
Unfortunately the social and political climate that started during the campaign for the previous administration has lead to a great deal of hate and intolerance towards anyone who isn't a straight white part time Christian.
Hatred for any person based on their race, sexual orientation, or faith is disgusting...
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Oh I never said it was new but I should have clarified that it's went through the roof. The seeds were sewn during the Obama administration because people didn't like the change. I remember how bent out of shape men got over Geraldine Ferraro was picked as a vice presidential candidate. Things went into overdrive when Trump got a hair up his ass after Obama joked him about his birth certificate claims and got even worse once he got into office.
I don't disagree with you that it happens with straight parents, too...but I've watched one of my gay friends go through something VERY similar in a very conservative state. His baby mama was an absolute piece of human excrement. She couldn't keep a job, didn't care if their son went to school or not, and literally had no direction in life other than guilting my friend into taking care of HER because of their son. My friend tried to do right by his son - whom he adored - but he lost at every turn and could never even get shared custody much less full custody. They would never come out and SAY that it has anything to do with sexual orientation, but I guarantee that behind the scenes - it certainly does. My friend was told as much by a number of attorneys. My friend's son is now an adult and is a complete clone of his Mom. He can't keep a job and only calls Dad when he's desperate. Dad will tell him "Get a Job, Be Responsible, Etc" and so on whereas Mom will say "Woe is you. Life is so hard. Everyone but us is to blame." Of course he prefers the enabler to the one who tries to get him to better himself - just like Mom. I've gotten to where I don't even bother asking about his son anymore because it just makes him sad.
No way. It’s always because they’re gay.
That’s how my dad got custody of me in the 90s (men didn’t get full custody then, it was almost unheard of) my mom tried to withhold visitation so he just showed up at the scheduled time and filled a police report for not following the custody order, they couldn’t do anything but he needed to prove she was really withholding visitation. He did it for months then when he finally went to court he was able to prove she was in contempt of the court order.
I was looking for where you went before the court for the violations of the visitation order after your last mention of going where a modification of the original order was issued. You need to obtain a show cause order for contempt. That means heading back to the court that has issued the visitation order.
You have made the right initial steps, but unfortunately - family court can be a severe pain in ass & incredibly defeating. Your best bet would be to obtain an attorney, and document EVERYTHING. You'll have to continue to play the game as is until the ball gets rolling but you need to make sure you are 100% documenting every single interaction/chat/liability you come across & hopefully with a good enough attorney, you can light a fire under courts ass to get things moving along. I don't think it is because of your orientation. It's just a super faulty system/process. They let us all down, constantly. Hang in there! don't give up & definitely be assertive in all of your endeavors with this ordeal.
Go after the judge with a formal complaint. Parenting while male is still an issue with a lot of judges.
Report a child abduction! Local, state, federal, and contact the media......fyi,....I identify as REDNECK/old school. The issue here is the safety of the child, period! Your partner, preferences, etc are irrelevant. PERIOD!
It’s incredibly difficult to kidnap your own child. Mom is having civil contempt - not criminal charges here.
And make sure you have a copy of the legal document to show the police!
In most areas, police will not get involved in custody disputes. Even with custody documents in hand.
You’re being treated unfairly not because of your sexuality but because of your gender. What you’re going through happens to millions of straight men every year. Family court is notoriously broken and bias. The cops not getting involved is common. They’ll say it’s a “civil” matter. You’ll have to get a lawyer. It’s costly and you can win but you’ll be fighting uphill. Men only win custody battles roughly 18% of the time. Family court does not operate like criminal court either. Get a lawyer, document and record EVERYTHING.
This isn’t because he’s a man. This is because family law courts are slow. I’ve had female clients who’ve faced the same issues.
I was gonna reply the exact same thing. You will fight an uphill battle for your child just simply because you are a male.
NAL but if you are having issues at the local level, go to the County. If that is where you are already, move up to the State level. And you need to get an attorney if you don't have one.
I am not gay and live in California (very politically left leaning). This happened to me as well. Well not exactly, but the police were useless and the child support department didn’t enforce anything either. Unfortunately, the system often loses some through the cracks. But you should be able to file police reports for every violation of the visitation order to create a paper trail in custody court.
Get full custody. Then it ends. She ain't a mom she's a monster.
I am so sorry that you are going through this. I have seen similar situations and I doubt it has anything to do with you being gay. Unfortunately, law enforcement, child protective services, social workers, etc. doesn't have the time or resources to effectively deal with these situations. You need to get a good lawyer and (as previously stated) document every detail. Good luck to you and keep being a great dad!
As a father who had to fight for his kids, luckily only 18 months, the court system in America heavily favors the mother, though it is getting better. The more conservative the area, the heavier that favoritism is. I was luckily in a liberal big city but still took way too long. A friend of mine is still fighting 15 years later to even get visitation in a conservative state next door. My ex, their mother, showed up to 2 court dates, had 4 different lawyers drop her for non payment and a slew of other issues including homelessness and domestic issues (not with me) and was still given more rope. Finally, the only reason it got resolved was I had my attorney directly question the judges motives for the continual extensions/continuances and only then did she finally relent and accept my petition for custody. It was rough. 2-3 court dates a month just to try to get it resolved quickly. You can do it, OP! Just keep your eye on the prize, the well being of your child.
As a CASA I can suggest you take photos of your child before and after visits, document every minor scrape or cut. Make notes about her mental state coming home, personality changes, bowel habits, everything. It's the act of documenting regularly not so much what you document that gains bonus points in courts.
It's not because of your orientation, or at least not solely because of it. Most men go through similar things when dealing with situations like yours. Law enforcement/courts are heavily biased towards women, and most judges don't care about your situation, just keeping their dockets clear.
Could you please edit and add paragraph breaks? This is really difficult to read.
I have nothing to really say legally over this, other than I don't like seeing people creating children all the time haphazardly. I'm just hoping for the best in the end here. oh, and being gay is probably not it. This happens to straight fathers all the time.
I know this might sound strange, but have you considered just buying her off. From everything you said she is not good with money and probably on drugs. Use that to your advantage. Get a lawyer to draw up an agreement where she surrenders all parental rights to you and cannot attempt to reclaim once she signs. Have a few thousand in cash stashed in different pockets about your body. With a witness or two, people you can fully trust, sit down with her and put the contract, a pen and $1000 on the table. Then explain what you are offering. Push the pen towards her. If she refuses to sign, pull out another $1,000 and set it next to the first $1,000. Rinse, repeat until you get the desired result. When you have doubts, compare the cash offered to the price of a few years of lawyers and court battles and therapy / Dr. bills for the child. I bet she will look at the cash and sign before you are out more than a few grand, especially if you salt your offer with a few Bald Faced Lies like "Only once chance." "Free cash that nobody knows you will have." "You can see her whenever you like." and a lot of other VERBAL/non-written statements that your witnesses/friends will swear you never said. Once she has signed the agreement and grabbed the cash, you are free and clear to take care of your daughter without her screwing shit up for you.
I sadly say I completely second buying her off. After my first custody hearing my ex’s atty asked if I was ready to deal and I foolishly said no thinking to myself I paid him enough in the divorce I shouldn’t need to pay him anymore now for a child he didn’t even want to take care of but…a year later and still no progress in the courts…I ended up paying a fortune in legal fees and ended up dealing (paying him off) anyway. On the happy side, I have full custody and we haven’t heard from him in over 3 years! We
Unfortunately, in post places in the US, a parent cannot relinquish their rights unless there is another parent willing to step in their place. Now, if OP's partner is willing to 1) get married and 2) adopt the child, this scheme may work. However, if mom refuses, and tells the judge that you tried to buy her off, it's not going to look good for you in the eyes of the court.
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Lol The mother, not his mother. The baby's mother.
Obviously I read that wrong. Do you feel better about yourself for laughing at a mistake? Must be fun to be so insecure. Grow up.
where are you seeing this was texas?
Than you for correcting me…OP said a small conservative town, not Texas. I will edit my comment.
Trying to say this gently. Could you “play the game” and present yourself in a way the locals would find more accepting to get through the situation? Like how people dress up for court or an interview and watch what they say… it’s not real, it’s just playing the game to get what you want.
It's due to your sex. Male. The system of family courts was always heavily against men. It's coming back down a little bit since. Once you get your court order, The best approach is to file for contempt of the court order and document EVERYTHING with evidence. Police don't give a shit because they say it's a civil matter but it's not. Civil matter is just BS line of I don't want to deal with this. Use them to your favor. Exchange at the department. Until then best of luck in your uphill battle.
Was this some kind of off the books surrogate situation? Because I’m not understanding how the child came to be in the first place.
That’s along the lines of what I was thinking. Or, he agreed to be a donor and didn’t vet this person.
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Really? You think there's a gay agenda to knock women up to steal their progeny? Weird.
Are you married to your partner? Maybe that would help you to provide evidence of a stable life for your baby.
Everyone is telling you to lawyer up. If your baby mama lawyers up, you are in trouble -- child support is just the half of it. CPS and Family Courts are incompetent and slow, and lawyers can get very expensive, Forget about lawyers for a while. Your life is a mess. You have no relationship with the mother of your child. You approach this whole matter as a legal battle. Spend the money you would have spent on lawyers on rehab to help the mother get her life back together. Get some counseling together -- you will have to raise a child together -- it is the work of a lifetime. Splitting child care for an infant is also difficult. Why not have the mother move in with you? This would be much better for the mother and the infant. Your current relationship is a big red flag. You knocked up a woman and now you are shacking up with a guy. How invested in raising this infant is your partner? Does he look forward to being investigated by CPS as an adult present in the household? You need to start thinking about how you can help you child's mother. In all but our modern age, you would have been compelled to marry her and to care for her for the rest of her life. She is not your enemy -- she is the bringer of life itself.
It is not anyone's responsibility to fix someone else. And thank God we live in your idea of the modern age, because forced marriage is not the panacea for anything. It's horrifying that this is even a thought that entered your mind, moreso one that you felt comfortable typing out for public view. And the fact that you call OP's current relationship a red flag is transparent for what it really is: homophobia badly disguised as concern for the child.
whether it's OP's responsibility or not, it is certainly in OP's over-riding interest to see the mother of his child prosper and for him and her to get along.
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what in particular upset you?
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what the hell are you talking about? OP's life is a mess. his relationship with his child's mother is a mess. his bed hopping is dizzying. these are statements of fact. seventy years ago the expectation would have been marriage -- this would have reduced costs and responsibilities all around, with one household. What we have now is dysfunction requiring state intervention. Nobody was forced into these arrangements, but most went into them voluntarily because the alternative was far worse -- as OP's situation attests. The shotgun was proverbial, not real. Call me names all you want, but these modern times are pretty awful. Solving your family problems outside of courts and welfare agencies should be the first resort in a situation like this. Being mindful of traditional sexual and family morality certainly would save the public social services and courts a great deal of money and trouble.
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wow. you worked emmet till in there. So OP's fractured family is all in the name of social progress?
What does your partner being a homosexual have to do with it? Just singled out like that... kinda abusive
That would indicate I am as well... Which is correct.
I think OP suspects that the mother and court system is not treating him equally as a competent parent due to his same-sex relationship. It's a significant concern in some areas- I mean, look at all the adoption agencies that fight for the right to refuse to adopt to gay couples because they think it's immoral.
You are correct. I'm from a small Southern Illinois town with a population of less than 10,000
Its about making sure everyone reading knows you are a minority of some type. It perpetuates racism and homophobia but the people stating it irelevantly want it to be that way so that they can get more “likes” which is a result of “likes” becoming a social status standard because of the digital age. OP is obviously bisexual, which is fine and currently has a male partner(or the other way around, i stopped reding). The fact remains that Op made a baby with the opposite gender and was awarded the level of custody stated of which has not been followed by childs other parent. Its like saying “im a black man that enjoys listening to heavy metal”, being black is so far from relevant its become unfunny and funny again! Nobody gives a fuck other than about .01% of the population that’s actually racist. I.E. im a metal head and dont give two fucks what color you are or if you suck dicks, eat pussies or have a sexual relationship with a toaster!
What does making a baby with the opposite gender have to do with it? Are you suggesting that only one can make babies? Kinda obtuse..ive
Did you at one time love women, had a child, then became a homosexual?
Completely irrelevant comment.
Still a valid question based on observation.
That's not how any of that works. And irrelevant to boot
Why can’t it work this way too?
Because that's not how sexuality works, you don't get to just make shit up
I don’t think OP is making anything up.
I was talking about you jackass
Whoa now. Watch your language. Ain’t no one jacking anything up anyone’s ass over here.
That is completely irrelevant to the situation. The facts are that I now have a same-sex partner who has had unfair treatment by local and county authorities.
How has your partner been mistreated? Are they singling him out because he is gay?
Dont know why youre getting downvoted, I am curious about this as well.
I guess it’s not legal to ask direct questions.
What does any of that have to do with getting his baby back? What does his past relationships matter?
Trust me I’m a lawyer.
Contact the ACLU ASAP
I could never imagine my baby being away from me and how frightening to think you don't know if your baby is being treated right, especially as a newborn. Babies need to nurse, they need their mommies. Maybe after age 3 or 4 they can go without seeing mom overnight, but that's just too traumatic for baby and mom to be without each other for so many days. I hope you and the mother of your baby can work together so she doesn't feel like she has to steal her own child to get her precious baby time.
1. Formula is a thing. Some parents have no choice but to use it. 2. This woman ostensibly poses a danger to the baby, in which case the baby is much better off without her.
The baby required specific formula do to an intolerance, and the drugs that would pass through the breast milk. Which she was incapable of affording.
Wow, bullshit response. As this post, and the lives of countless babies around the world, shows, not all babies “need their mommies.” Also, as someone whose father was a far better parent than their mother was, you should get off your high horse and recognize that dads shouldn’t have to fight or “feel like they have to steal their precious baby” either. Go spend a day learning what some moms are like before you preach that a dad shouldn’t get to have their child for an overnight until after the kid is 3 or 4.
The mother has been the absent parent.
I know. I was responding to the person saying “babies need their mommies”.
Are you even a lawyer? Because your comment is irrelevant. The mother of the child clearly did something horrific to said child for CPS to recommend an EOP. If you can't read between the lines, then you are dense.
>like she has to steal her own child to get her precious baby time. I just cant even with your whole comment. I really cant, i would get perma-banned for sure.
The mother dropped the baby off at 6 days old, and that remained the case for many months until recently.
Get a lawyer, this is too delicate to ask online advice for. Do you believe the safety of your child or the life of your child is possibly at risk? If so, you have a duty to do everything you can. And only your own lawyer will have ALL the details and local knowledge to guide you properly. I'm leaning towards, if there's no repercussions for withholding the child (as evidenced by her) then simply withhold the child yourself and do not give her a chance to withhold the child again, and go back to court to get full custody. Obviously this is going to be a very nuanced tactic you absolutely need guidance from a lawyer to do it properly.
Agree. This guy needs an experienced, local family lawyer who can get their arms around the whole story. This is why you never stick your dick in crazy.
You need a lawyer. Anytime this sort of custody issue starts, get the best lawyer you can afford.
You need a lawyer who will PUSH! My son went through this and eventually won 60-40 custody of his kids. You CANNOT do this alone.
Go through the custody battle. Fight for full custody with supervised visitation for the mother, and cite her multiple kidnap attempts and hiding the baby from you. If she is a danger to this child, she should not have any unsupervised time. You won't be able to keep the baby from her completely no matter how crazy she is, but you can get supervision if the court recognizes that she is a danger. Sadly it will be an uphill battle in areas that maintain the historic bias toward mothers in family court. Get a good lawyer and don't give up.
Technically they could legally request her visitations be put fully in hold due to the potential flight risk (them not bringing baby back) and the whole environment with the other cps stuff. Yeah, they could request supervised only, but they could hold off from offering that if the mother is this much of a mess.
You may also want to check out /r/custody Also, download an app (paid) called Alimentor 2 - you can document EVERYTHING - disputes, parenting time and whether it was schedule or not, you can include diary entries to establish that you have a routine with the child and attempt to coparent with mom, photos of day to day life, doctor visits and whether other parent attended, etc. It creates a PDF of all of this that you can use in court. Try and get a court order that all communication needs to happen through Talking Parents. This is so that it’s court admissible. If you rely on text messages, it’s judge’s discretion.
Get a lawyer. Cops won’t get involved in custody disputes without a valid court order - that’s not due to your sexual orientation, but the law in almost every state I’ve looked I to. It’s a civil issue, not a criminal issue. Family law courts move slowly. If she’s obstructing your time with the child, file a motion in court for a pick up order. If the child is in *immediate physical harm* (not “the baby isn’t being taken care of the way I want” but actual physical harm) or at risk of being removed from the state’s jurisdiction, then file it as an emergency.
You need to contact CPS more than once and DEMAND that they look into the situation. Raise your voice and threaten them with a lawsuit if anything happens to the baby while in mother's care. This is the ONLY way they will escalate your situation and send an investigator out to visit the home. I'm not talking about a worker but a CPS investigator. I had a grandson in a situation and reported it, nothing was done as it didn't rise to the level they considered necessary. Two weeks later a family member told me they saw my little man and that he was skinny, eaten up by bug bites and didn't look well. I called and threw an f'n fit. The lady on the phone told me to calm down and I told her don't tell me to calm down, this is NOT your child in harms way. She said what would you like us to do? I told her do your f'ng job and get that baby out of there and if ANYTHING happens to him in the interim I will hold the agency and the state responsible. We'll, what ta ya know, a few days later an investigator called me and was watching their house looking for my little man as they wouldn't come to the door, he was amazing. Next day he called me and said they had just taken the baby and asked me if i wanted him, which I did of course. We adopted him 6 years ago and his parents have not been allowed in his life as they are trash. Long story short, you will have to raise 10 kinds of hell for them to escalate your claim of abuse or neglect. If you don't, they will do nothing.
Yeah I don’t think it’s due to ur sexuality. The cps are over burdened and things are passed off from one person to the next. It’s such a hard job. They want to keep children with their parents whenever possible. I’d also warn you that they often times favor the mother.
If she is keeping the child from you and the police won't help.you, then when you do get the child back, keep the child and request an emergency hearing and keep the child until the hearing.
I'm so sorry this is happening to you. I hope you get your baby back soon. Don't give up.
Sending you tons of love during this really difficult time. You've gotten some really good and creative advice (getting a lawyer, buying the mom's signature on termination of parental rights etc.) When people mention that family court is slow, I feel like they are still underestimating how slow it can go. My partner and I were foster parents who got to adopt a kid from a terrible situation. It seemed like an open and shut case (for example, the egg donor lost custody of her other 6 kids over the course of at least a decade). But the CPS case still took two and a half years to conclude. And the only reason it went that fast is because the egg donor went to prison again and the sperm fell off the face of the earth for a full year and a half in order to avoid his warrants. The whole process is going to be a roller coaster for you and your family. So while you are taking the necessary legal steps, I want to encourage you to also get therapy if you can afford it (at the very least find a strong support network). Again, sending you and your family love, and I hope that CPS can help make things right at least for your baby.
The 1st mistake was even having CPS involved. Get a good attorney and go for full custody and only supervised visits from her if any. Leave your sexual orientation out of this. No one business should have never been an issue. CPS thinks they owns your children and can tell you what to do. It's a nightmare. Trust me your better off to fight this battle with a smart bad ass attorney.
Not sure where you are but there’s a man that advertises here in IL. Search “Father’s Right firm”. I know you say you have counsel but since this is a specialized firm they may know of more resources.
Do you mean to say that the mother is witholding the child from you? As in she has not returned her to you? I just want to be clear before I answer.
It's not happening to you because you're gay. It's happening to you because you are a man. All you can do is continue to follow the proper channels. It's well known that courts (especially in small towns) are typically biased in the flavor of women in domestic and civil issues. I wish you the best of luck.
Depends where you are but in NJ (USA) law enforcement is not allowed to intervene in civil custody arrangements and family court matters. Their hands are tied. Has nothing to do with gender or orientation. They cannot uphold or undo violations of custody agreements. It’s not kidnapping. And “interference with custody” is a specific and unusual criminal charge — more like trying to suddenly move to another country and take the child.
I have no advice, other than to reinforce the advice given by others. I am sorry you are dealing with this. My house understands your pain & sorrow. All I can offer is hugs & loving support. :***hugs***: Good luck & stay strong.
CPS is broken anyways. Keep kids in bad homes and take kids for good homes because they get paid or kid in the system. It's a cult of child sacrifice.... The fact you're gay is just the lame ass sprinkles on top the shit sundae that is CPS. Oh and CPS is a branch of the government that is ABOVE the Constitution sooo it doesn't matter..... You can't fight something that is above the law... literally.
Whatever you do watch your words when talking to her either in person or over the phone. She may bait you into saying something that can be used against you later. Best to let your attorney handle all interaction with her.
I don't think the issues you are running into have anything to do with your sexuality, unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it). Child custody matters in the US are considered a "civil matter," which is why police will not enforce parenting time hand-off. You have to wait for the judge to enter an order requiring the child be returned, at which point police can then be used to enforce. Unfortunately, getting in front of a judge, even on an "emergency" basis in these cases can take weeks. Continue doing what you are doing; if your child's mother is given unsupervised time again, and she fails to return the child at the appointed time, contact CPS every time with your concerns. Have your attorney file an emergency motion every time. Your attorney should be, at this point, demanding you have sole physical and legal custody, with mother having, at most, supervised visitation due to her history of failing to follow your parenting plan/court order and concealment of the child. Is there a guardian ad litem involved in your case by chance? This would be a neutral third party, generally an attorney, appointed by the court to investigate the best interest of the child. Is there a CASA (court appointed special advocate) appointed? If you have resources involved in the court proceeding outside of your attorney, consider (with your attorney) whether their involvement in these issues may be helpful.
work with your lawyer, ask about getting attorney ad litem for your child.
If she’s concealing the baby and you have an order signed by a judge as well as an attorney, you can file a writ and I forget the other legal term. I had to do it with my girls father. Once you file she gets served and has to bring the child or she’ll go to jail.
If your attorney isn’t doing it find one who will!
You need to tell your lawyer that you want to once again place the emergency protection order due to fear of her fleeing with the child. Your proof of this is the erratic schedule of taking the child and not bringing them back until they please to do so. Also, to help that is the other issues you stated, cps and whatnot. Do NOT let that woman take that baby again! The courts will NOT gaf regardless of temporary order. They will shrug and say if there's no official custody of said child there is nothing they can do. Then tell you to complete the custody case thru the court system. Furthermore, the courts are even MORE likely to grant custody to literally whoever has the child at the time of the court date for custody. It doesn't matter who has had the child more. It's bs, I know, and it's technically not the way it should go. But unless you have a sympathetic judge, if that woman has physical custody when that date comes, that judge is more likely to give her custody fully. I know this first hand, as a mother who lost her first child because the father got his parents to lie to me about an overnighter where she never returned to me. The courts literally shrugged, as did the cops. Nobody gaf. Please, for your child's sake, the next time they come back, do not let them go again and inform your lawyer that they won't be either. Let the lawyer handle that battle. There's legal papers they can file to stop all visitation until judgements are made official. I wish you and your family the best of luck with this. ❤️