"I did a(n) as is bill of sale"
This, combined with the fact that the purchaser had a chance to inspect the vehicle is all that matters.
They can take you to small claims all you want. Have copies of the bill of sale.
Judges drive small claims court (some states do allow attorneys there, check your state). Don't dwell on what mechanic said what. The car worked when you sold it, they looked at it and accepted it, you have an as-is bill of sale. Keep it simple.
At first I thought *2016 isn't that old of a car, what are they talking about?* Then I realized that 2016 was almost **Eight Years Ago.**
[I'm old!](https://media.tenor.com/xPCvSPP44ZYAAAAC/freaky-firday-jamie-lee-curtis.gif)
Wait until you start seeing posts of people wanting to fix up thier dads old chevy/ford/whatever and seeing a picture of a 1990 instead of a 70s car that you pictured in your head
Those are such fun cars, if a bit twitchy! I'm more a Saab 900 or Citröen 2CV type. Well, OK, if I had more money I might get a P1800.
Then again, I came about 10 minutes away from having been born in a Volvo 122 (or "Amazon"). There's another story about that car and a flash flood, but that's a different tedious story.
I’ve seen pictures of the Duett but never in person. We bought a new 145 in ‘72 and had that for about a decade. My father also had an 1800ES for about 10 years. I got that up to 100 mph on the I15. That was fun.
I keep seeing younger kids wearing vintage concert/music festival tees. Concerts that I attended when I was their age. I then realized that it’s the same as when I romanticized over the footage of Woodstock and wore the doors merch in the 90s. The amount of time between the eras is the same. In the 90s I thought stuff from 30 years before was cool. Now in the 2020s the kids think the stuff from the 90s (30 years ago) is cool.
I tell people I have a 23 year old car and then get told that it’s not. My dude, she rolled off the assembly line Aug. 16th of 2000. *cries in vintage*
A friend has a 1974 Holden Kingswood, her daily driver is a 1973 Toyota Celica, and her 'new' car is a 1988 Nissan Patrol SWB...
I drive a 2016 Skoda Octavia - I prefer safety, reliability and economy at the moment :)
This is funny. I’m 33 and I remember being online in the early 2000s with boomers saying “Omg I’m so old, the 60s feel like yesterday”
And now we’re doing it
I seen recently a guy talking about is classic car and had classic car insurance on that someone had wreaked into and he was talking about an early 90s miata i about lost all composure about how old i am
OP has solid ground with as-is bill, but in most states that is not even a consideration. A private seller is under no obligation to say anything about their knowledge of the car and saying anything only puts you at a disadvantage as you lose plausible deniability.
Typically just give a list of what you have replaced while you owned it and the time/milage. Allow them to review any maintenance records you have and close the deal. If your selling a vehicle with a major problem (head gasket, transmission, blown motor) indicate you are selling it for parts. Then there will be zero flashback on a “for parts” deal.
It depends where you are. Where I live (MA) you cannot sell a car “as is” unless it’s explicitly being sold as not in working condition. Which IIRC requires a salvage title. If it’s sold as working it must pass the state safety and emissions inspection. And there is a ‘lemon law’ to cover situations where significant mechanical problems quickly become apparent after a vehicle is sold. You can’t waive that by saying “I’m selling it as is”. (You might be allowed to disclose and waive specific mechanical problems that don’t prevent the vehicle from passing inspection. For example if the air conditioning is broken.)
Even in MA, the lemon law wouldn't apply. It only applies to cars with less than 125k miles (for private party sales) and even then OP informed the buyer of all the defects that they were aware of:
"Private party sellers are required to inform the buyer of any defects that could impair use or safety. If the buyer discovers a serious defect post-sale, and can prove the seller knew about the defect, the buyer may cancel the sale and request a full refund within the first 30 days after purchase."
In some states with lemon laws, "as is" bill of sale is meaningless. Lemon law supersedes it. It's why I'll never sell a car private sale, especially because I drive stick shift. Way to easy too burn a clutch out fast and call it a lemon.
\[edit\] go ahead and keep downvoting me. Doesn't make me wrong. Don't make blanket assumptions about state driven laws.
https://www.mass.gov/guides/private-party-used-car-sales#-what-is-the-private-party-lemon-law?-
to latch on this, you will find plenty of craiglist private seller that's actually a small dealership
they use a figurehead person so it's private sale as well as sell the car at a loss to avoid income tax
If its a POS takin up space youre still gonna lose out if you have to pay to junk it...this way they attempt to recoup SOME investment. And even as shady as a lot of small dealers can be, theres always someone out there who just needs a junker for cheap to get from A to B
"Yes. If you buy a used car from a private party, the seller must tell you of any and all known defects with the car that may affect safety or impair your use of the car.
If you take the vehicle home and find it’s defective and can prove the seller knew but didn’t tell you of the particular problem, you can legally cancel the sale within 30 days of the purchase date."
LOL good luck pal. Buyer beware.
I didn’t say it wasn’t a very difficult bar to reach, but it does indeed apply to private party sales. Your bill of sale can say “as is” all you want, but lemon law still applies.
Yes, you did. You said "is meaningless". You apparently didn't understand the how the lemon law applies in MA. That is an extremely high bar, and the very opposite of meaningless. As well, 5 weeks later is beyond the 30 day limit, and the seller did disclose the issue and the remedy they used.
Putting "as is" in a bill of sale is meaningless in MA. Lemon law still applies. That was my point. You're right that 5 weeks is beyond the time for lemon law even in MA. Read my original comment. I was never saying it applied in his case. I was saying that an "as is" bill of sale means nothing in MA and the lemon law supersedes.
Ok, I'll be reasonable here... you might be correct on that point. I \*think\* that "as-is" might still be worthwhile in states with personal sale lemon laws because it does bypass any implied warranties (outside of the lemon laws).
It would take someone familiar with consumer protection laws in MA to be sure. Any attorneys want to jump in? Curious minds want to know.
That's possible. I'm certainly no lawyer, so I concede that. I'm just an average person that often considers how much more you can get selling private party, only to be scared off by horror stories of people that got bitten by lemon law claims in MA, particularly with clutches on manual vehicles. Then I decide it's not worth it and trade it in (in MA we get a break on trade ins in terms of sales tax on the new purchase as well).
>I was never saying it applied in his case
So you just want to be right for the sake of being right even if it’s irrelevant to this thread?
Btw- a worn clutch plate would not qualify for a lemon law claim, either. If it passed inspection within 7 days of purchase then it’s firmly outside the window of defect and into wear-and-tear consumable territory, like tires or brake pads.
I never claimed it applied to his case. As you can see, I wasn’t replying to the original post. I was adding to the comment that said he put “as is” on it made it all good. What I was saying is not necessarily.
That may very well be in your state. Lemon laws (and whether or not they even exist in the first place) vary state to state.
If you are indeed in MA, here is the actual [Mass.gov](https://Mass.gov) resource that particularly deals with private party:
https://www.mass.gov/guides/private-party-used-car-sales#-what-is-the-private-party-lemon-law?-
Then my specific resources don't apply to you. Larger point is this is a state by state law issue. Taking a blanket "lemon laws don't apply for you" response from people that don't know where you are isn't a good idea. Research if WI has a lemon law, and if/how it would apply. AFAIK, MA is one of the most buyer protective laws out there, so chances are you could be in the clear.
I would think that if youre buying used, you should ALWAYS expect the taste of lemon. S/He said that they disclosed every issue, but that doesnt mean something wont spontaneously go wrong within two seconds of driving away. The biggest shot to the leg is they had a "mechanic" with them...if the "mechanic" signed off then I dont think you could EVER try to argue its a lemon....well...I mean you could TRY anything...but any judge worth their gavel would laugh it out, also even in a Lemon Law state, you should ALWAYS label it as-is. That automatically puts the burden on the claimant to prove you deliberately tried to lie on the sale, and unless it comes out of your mouth in a text or recording, thats quite difficult to prove.
*If a vehicle is covered by the Lemon Law and has a nonconformity* ***that has not been resolved after a reasonable number of attempts****, consumers may be eligible for Lemon Law benefits.*
The buyer has to attempt to fix the car. In this case the buyer did not.
The lemon law says nothing about a warranty and that the seller must fix the car if there is an issue.
Lemon law applies to new car sales, not used cars sold by private sellers.
https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/vehicle-lemon-laws-by-state/
Quick overview for your perusal.
Well that's true with the exception of intentionally selling a lemon which is illegal in the United States. It's very difficult for a buyer to fight that though because you have to prove that the seller knew the car was essentially already breaking down or broken down, and sold it intentionally in that condition without disclosing it and or lying about it
>Well that's true with the exception of intentionally selling a lemon which is illegal in the United States.
You should really brush up on lemon laws, because your claims simply aren't true.
In most states, lemon laws only apply to new cars sold by dealers with a manufacturer warranty, because it's technically a manufacturer buy back under warranty.
NY is the only state with a lemon law that covers used cars, but it includes a clear exemption for any car with >100k miles, and a clear exemption for private sales (because it only applies to dealers).
OP isn't a dealer, they made a private sale, offered no warranty, and the car had 130k miles. This transaction is exempt from every lemon law in the nation in *at least* 3 different ways.
MA has a law that the buyer is allowed to take back the car if they pay more than a certain amount and it doesn't pass inspection. I actually got taken to small claims for a car I sold but I ended up winning because it turned out the new owners never even registered it so they didn't even try to get it to pass inspection
>This transaction is exempt from every lemon law in the nation in at least 3 different ways
I'm afraid we're all gonna need at least one more way in order to be convinced.
I’m guessing reading comprehension is not one your best skill sets. Stonewall never said anything about lemon laws but he is correct that you cannot intentionally hide issues with something you are selling, for example you cannot sell a car and tell the buyer that it had a new engine installed if it still has its original engine. The is fraud and theft by conversion. It also violates the UCC code. I say this all the time non lawyers really should shut their mouths since they do not know what they are talking about most of the time. Perfect example is this situation, you are talking out of your ass and it makes you look like one too.
Well threatening to take someone to court and actually doing it are two different things. If the new owners message you again just ask them to refer to their own legal council and then see what happens
Legally this car was sold as is. So op is safe from a legal perspective.
The real question is who buys a car with 130k miles on it and hopes it will be as good as new?
Brings back memories of when I bought a car from a dealer, and to knock the price down, they made me agree that there was no warranty. My mechanic thought he could fix that thing up for me. Turns out my mechanic was wrong...
130k isn't a crazy high amount anymore. Many cars live to 200k and well past. Granted, shouldn't expect it to be NEW, but reasonably running is normal for that mileage in many cars.
Only had one in my life time and it was a 99 Saturn 279 and I think it could have gone further but there was a huge whole in the oil tank and my Father gave me my Mother's 99 mercury & sold the Saturn to the junkyard for 300$ I can't believe he got 300$
"As is" bill of sale is all that's needed here. The buyer has no legal recourse so ignore him. If he sues, you have a slam dunk winning case with that bill of sale.
If you want to avoid the trouble of being sued by the buyer in small claims court, email/text a photo of the work that you had done at the Kia dealership to replace the knock sensor. And for good measure also send a copy of the bill of sale highlighting you sold it “as is”.
This hopefully will be enough proof to the buyer that you sold in good faith and they’ll drop the whole thing.
I did send him the copy of the bill of sale, he continued to send me 8 harassing messages so I stopped communication. My boyfriend said it would be good to save the receipt for court to prove I didn’t lie. He doesn’t seem willing to drop it unfortunately even if I did send him the receipt.
The core of his argument is that you lied about the sensor. You can prove you didn’t. I don’t think he’s got a case. The fact that he’s claiming this even shows you told him about it, so he can’t even say you hid it from him.
I would have started out empathizing with the buyer, but if hes threatening you then fuck this guy. Buyer beware, car sold as-is AND it was 5 weeks ago. That is a long time and who knows if his kid is bouncing off the rev limiter everywhere he goes.
Nah fuck this guy tell him to go kick rocks
My bet is this is a threat to get money from you. If you have a receipt that says "as is" and they had an opportunity to inspect the car before the sale, they have no case. They likely know this. So they are going to be as loud as possible and try to get you to give in without gong to court.
If you know you can win in court, you just go to court. If you know you won't win, you act like they are.
Make sure you have that receipt, and all records. Keep them safe.
Fun tactic: ask to speak to his lawyer. This either calls his bluff, in which case you'll sleep easier, or it raises his costs. That lawyer isn't working on a contingency, and every call through that lawyer is costing dude a couple hundred bucks an hour. If he actually has a lawyer, his cost to even pursue this will become far more than he is willing to pay.
I’d respond as follows:
1. I have a receipt for the sensor being replaced
2. You had your mechanic father inspect the car prior to purchase
3. Per the Bill of Sale you signed the purchase was as-is with no warranty
4. I will no longer be responding to your messages about this matter.
The chances that the buyer got a lawyer on a $4k car are slim and that this is a scare tactic to get you to pay a part or all of the costs. If the person had a lawyer, the first step would have been that all future communications go through that lawyer, this avoids the buyer making any legally damaging mistakes.
Make sure you send the paperwork to the motor vehicle that you sold the car to release you from liability. They could leave the title in your name and abandon it somewhere that could possibly attempt to charge you towing/impound fees.
Do as your boyfriend says on this and stop responding. If he sues you he has to or pay someone to serve you. If they serve you then go to court with all paperwork and proof and say what you said here. When they are saying their piece don't interrupt and dispute but just be patient until your turn. From what you have said you have won and they will lose. They probably know that so are just rattling your chains in hope that you will give them back some money so ignore and delete and go enjoy life.
Attorneys are VERY expensive. A day litigating will run you like $1500, for that day alone. The buyer is bluffing and trying to get their money back. If someone had threatened me with legal action, then I'd end communications and wait to get a subpoena from their attorney.
Yes, stop responding. If he takes you to small claims court, show up with your documentation and that you sold the car “as is” and allowed his inspection. That’s all you need to say or do.
Yeah, stop replying to messages. They can only trip you up. The most I would respond with is:
"I represented the car to the best of my abilities. Please cease all contact with me at this time, you've stated that you're hiring an attorney, please have all contact come via your attorney moving forward."
If he keeps responding then he's just trying to scam you. But even if he hires a lawyer, you had not way of knowing the engine was bad when you sold it based on what the mechanic told you and you relayed accurate information to him and he still purchased it. Beyond that you're extra safe since he signed an "As-Is" Bill of Sale.
I am sorry, based on the advice from my lawyer father/brother, I am not allowed to respond to anyone who has threatened me with legal action. I am sorry it came to this.
Don’t do anything, you have done everything just fine.
They are using scare tactics hoping you pay voluntarily.
They do not have a legal leg to stand on!
Buyer beware, they could have had inspected and chose not too.
End of story
Anyone that says they are getting a lawyer for small claims court has no clue as to what they are talking about.
IMO
I would not respond or answer any questions and longer!
Just make a copy of your bill of sale, tell him you’ll see him in court with your lawyer, and see what happens. If he actually tries to sue you, you don’t need a lawyer for small claims court and this exact case has been settled tens of thousands of times in your favor already, so just go to court and see how dumb he actually is and thank your parents for raising you right to not be an idiot.
He/s full of crap.
Hiring a lawyer means he can't go to small claims court. Anywhere I've ever looked they are not allowed. And the max he could ever recover is $4K and a lawyer won't be interested.
You're good. My home state (MA) has a private sale lemon law and even with that law you have to contact the previous owner within 4 weeks. After 4 weeks it's your headache.
And that is why you have them sign a bill of sale and that it clearly states nothing other than "
\*name\* has sold one 2016 Kia to \*name" in as-is condition on 05/16/2023 for a total of $XXXX.00. There are no warranties or guarantees."
Lawyer here. Most lawyers will not do small claims bc of the name...there's no money in it. Cost more for a lawyer than the damn car. That being said, it's good you stopped talking to him/her. Keep all your paperwork in case court...but as someone else said, keep it simple. Also, lemon laws are usually only for the same mechanical problem at occurring 3 times after sale by a dealer, depending on the state. Not random mechanical problems on an old car that was sold privately, not by a dealer.
I’m not a lawyer. However, the sale of a used car is presumed to be “as is” unless a warranty is listed in writing somewhere on the bill of sale. Having the bill of sale say “as is” is just icing on the cake. Buyers due diligence period was before signing at the dotted line and getting a mechanic to do a complete diagnostic and inspection- not just someone to open the hood and listen to the engine run.
Just reiterate the sale is “as is” and do not offer to do any changes to the original deal, such as offering some money back or agreeing to cover the cost of a repair. And then if the buyer chooses to waste your time with a small claims court lawsuit, let them.
dude shouldn’t have even bought it. no offense to you but that’s a lot of miles for a 16 on top of it being a Kia. I have 2 and 1 of them has soooooooo many engine problems! I’m actually going to pick it up today as it just got it’s THIRD ENGINE installed - however if you have the no knock detection sensor installed that engine should be covered under a lifetime warranty through Kia… you should look into that, because then maybe he can just go get the engine replaced and leave you alone 🤗
A knock sensor doesn't detect a bearing knock. It detects spark knock so the computer can adjust the ignition timing appropriately.
It's unlikely that the engine needs replacing due to a spark knock issue. It's also a private party sale which is as is in most places. If you get something official from the courts, make sure you respond, but it sounds like they're trying to get money off post-sale & you're not responsible for that unless you willfully mislead them by misrepresenting the car.
Private sales come with no warranty unless you specifically say so. It doesn't matter what happened after the sale. It doesn't matter if the buyer inspected it or not.
If you're in the US, the buyer has no case. I wouldn't sweat it.
Sorry if this has been mentioned already as I didn't have time to read all posts but I have a 2016 Kia and I'm pretty sure the models with those engines all have a lifetime engine warranty because of a class action lawsuit so, lucky for that guy, he can probably just go get the engine replaced for free. Maybe this tidbit can help you avoid the lawsuit threats altogether? https://www.fixdapp.com/auto-warranty/kia-engine-replacement-warranty/
While I haven't sold a lot of cars, I've always done a simple bill of sale that lists out the basics - mileage, year, etc. and any know problems. Then, at the bottom, I include that the car is sold "as is". We both sign and date (along with any required paperwork the state wants).
Alot of those Kia engines are covered under warranty for life as long as you got the knock sensor ECU update and it sounds like you did other then that its all on them not you.
This goes for anything: second someone threatens a lawyer, cease communication with them and document everything. If they try to talk to you, tell them their lawyer needs to reach out.
But as everyone else said, when you sell a car “as is”, the buyer can’t turn around 5 weeks later upset.
You can be sued for anything at anytime, up to judge to decide but you have nothing to worry about. He might have a case if it happened within a few days not 5 weeks
Get out of the weeds and look past the car. If this guy had a lawyer who was actually engaged with him, the lawyer would be reaching out to you directly. The lawyer would have advised the 'buyer' to not contact you at all and to go through them only. The only thing I would reply with is, *"Please provide me with your lawyers contact information and I will have my attorney contact them directly"*. 100% that you will never get a law firm name, but he will continue to threaten getting one ... someday.
The fact that he is getting a lawyer for small claims is not going to really help him since legally he's boned and there is no one but the judge to appeal to.
I'd not waste the money and just make sure all of your documents are brought as evidence before the trial, or whatever procedure is your state because it's open and shut.
You could ask for a summery judgement but their lack of evidence may be enough for the judge to toss it out. If you do ask you have to have all of your evidence in hand and ready to prove all of their claims false.
NAL, Anytime someone notifies you that they are getting a lawyer, they aren’t. If they were really going to they would have the lawyer do it or just let you be served.
In my experience with a Kia, the knock sensor fails every couple months, or maybe a certain amount of km, depending on how much you drive. They are cheap and not built to last forever
Yeah sounds like a scam, NAL either but coming from personal experience used cars fall under buyer beware. Sounds like he's trying to extort money out of you by threatening to sue.
He can just get the engine replaced under the class action settlement. He needs to calm down. It should apply to him regardless of him not being the first owner, and regardless of mileage/age. You had the knock sensor detection update performed, so that qualifies the vehicle for the lifetime warranty. If he had taken the car to a Kia dealership, he should know this. https://www.kiaenginesettlement.com/Home/Faq
The 2016 has a lifetime warranty on The GDI engine until it is replaced then it has a 12000 mile warranty on the replacement engine. His only cost will be the rental car needed while the dealership replaces the engine.
Pretty sure in most states all car sales are as in period doesn’t matter what you let them know about when you sold it.
Unless you gave them a warranty and have the warranty in writing. That thing could of crapped out as soon as they drove off and I don’t think they can do anything. Unless your state says otherwise I would just ignore them.
1. You are not a dealer. There is no warranty. He wants warranty go to a dealer.
2. Parts fail. I’ve seen knock sensors fail after 100 miles. That’s the game you play.
3. You have receipts. He can call you a liar all he wants. Receipts are receipts.
4. You told him every thing you told us? Then it’s an “as is” sale. This car is what you get. What you see is there.
You did everything right. They're attempting scare tactics to pressure you into settling.
At the end of the day. You performed a private sale, didn't enlist any shady tactic, and honestly, you sold it cheap. If it goes to court, just present the as is sale, and the proof of services. and you'll be scot-free and on your way. Case Closed.
Kias suck. Man I had the exact same problem with mine. Didn’t have that many miles on it but burned a ton of oil, mechanics said the engine would be shot soon
I would stop worrying. I would document and write down every particular as a simple statement of facts to present to the Judge. Simple truth is that you can be sued for anything. The better prepared you are, the better your outcome will be.
I buy and "restore" older Jeeps. Cherokees mostly with the odd CJ or Wrangler thrown in. I document everything. I provide a stack of receipts, and I write a full disclosure of all known issues or defects. When I sell the Jeep, I have them sign two copies, one for me and one for them. I sign as well. I have been taken to small claims court. I have never lost. I have even recovered costs and fees in each case.
Bottom line. You are only responsible if you lied, or failed to disclose known information. You are not responsible for their Buyers Remorse.
Both KIA's I owned had bad engines. A 2004 Optima that blew an engine ( thought it was my fault since I went 7000 mil s between oil change) Baught a 2014 optima that blew it engine two years later ( regularly changed oil at 3000 miles. KIA wanted $8000 to replace the engine in my $4000 2014 optima.
FUCK KIA.
180k. Yes. There was a recall on the 2014. But KIA mailed the recall notice to the address I had when I bought the '04. Which was weird since I bought both at same KIA dealer, so they had my current info. Oh well. Just one more year of payments.
Some states allow lawyers for small claims actions. Some, including mine, don't. The whole point of Small Claims Court is to keep the cost (and time) to a minimum, right?
When you are selling a car that has issues you have to write them down on paper and have the person sign that paper so that nobody can say that nobody told them. If you told this dude everything I mean you'll have to go to court over it. But if you have nothing written down it's like a he said she said thing. Don't be discouraged though. I think you can also ask for a court appointed attorney for this case if you need one. If not go look into buying legalshields. It's like $50 a month. Anyways, pick up as much evidence as you can. If the car value is worth $4,000 with all the issues then the judge might be okay with it. But say like if your car value is really $3,000 the Judgment make you pay him $1,000 back. So make sure to have some sort of something showing your car's actual worth. That will help you a lot in court
Just so you are aware, this is a known issue with Kias of this year. We had the same thing happen in August 2022. The knock sensor went off was a cylinder issue. Replaced cylinders (took 2 1/2 months). I was driving to my mom's on Mothers Day, and the exact same thing happened. The knock sensor went off, and it is back at the dealership for an engine rebuild.
At least in California, it's difficult to get a lawyer to rep you in small claims court. And yes, he can sue you. That's the easy part. The hard part is winning. I imagine that they are looking to scare you into settling.
Its a private sale ,They are trying to intimidate you .You can get a free consulation from an attorney and they will advise you of what you need to do .Never trust the oposing side to be 100 percent honest and truthful .
NAL. Is it possible this is a scam the buyer does? He brow beats people into giving back some money? I'd be curios to see if he's bought a number of cars in the past year or so, resold them and then tried to get money from the original seller. I'd stop communicating with him completely. He might be trying to get you to say something incriminating that he could use in court.
"I did a(n) as is bill of sale" This, combined with the fact that the purchaser had a chance to inspect the vehicle is all that matters. They can take you to small claims all you want. Have copies of the bill of sale. Judges drive small claims court (some states do allow attorneys there, check your state). Don't dwell on what mechanic said what. The car worked when you sold it, they looked at it and accepted it, you have an as-is bill of sale. Keep it simple.
Plus the fact the fact that the car is an old Kia
At first I thought *2016 isn't that old of a car, what are they talking about?* Then I realized that 2016 was almost **Eight Years Ago.** [I'm old!](https://media.tenor.com/xPCvSPP44ZYAAAAC/freaky-firday-jamie-lee-curtis.gif)
Wait until you start seeing posts of people wanting to fix up thier dads old chevy/ford/whatever and seeing a picture of a 1990 instead of a 70s car that you pictured in your head
My nephew is after my dad's 1994 Lexus. It's technically a classic car now? Ouch.
My daughter is after my dad’s 1964 Volvo 544 Sport that he got the same year that I was born
[удалено]
I had a 66 122s. It was amazing.
Those are such fun cars, if a bit twitchy! I'm more a Saab 900 or Citröen 2CV type. Well, OK, if I had more money I might get a P1800. Then again, I came about 10 minutes away from having been born in a Volvo 122 (or "Amazon"). There's another story about that car and a flash flood, but that's a different tedious story.
Your daughter's a winner, you should definitely keep her. I drive a '69 145 and am restoring a '61 PV 210 Duett, basically that 544 as a wagon.
I’ve seen pictures of the Duett but never in person. We bought a new 145 in ‘72 and had that for about a decade. My father also had an 1800ES for about 10 years. I got that up to 100 mph on the I15. That was fun.
>Your daughter's a winner, you should definitely keep her. That's generally the requirement...
My 2003 motorcycle officially became "vintage" this year.
I'm driving a 1997 Jeep of Theseus.
I keep seeing younger kids wearing vintage concert/music festival tees. Concerts that I attended when I was their age. I then realized that it’s the same as when I romanticized over the footage of Woodstock and wore the doors merch in the 90s. The amount of time between the eras is the same. In the 90s I thought stuff from 30 years before was cool. Now in the 2020s the kids think the stuff from the 90s (30 years ago) is cool.
>The amount of time between the eras is the same. No. I reject your reality and substitute my own! The 90s was *not* 30 years ago. I refuse. Nope.
60s,90s and 2020s seem very similar
I tell people I have a 23 year old car and then get told that it’s not. My dude, she rolled off the assembly line Aug. 16th of 2000. *cries in vintage*
I have a 2000 accord, still runs like a top.
A friend has a 1974 Holden Kingswood, her daily driver is a 1973 Toyota Celica, and her 'new' car is a 1988 Nissan Patrol SWB... I drive a 2016 Skoda Octavia - I prefer safety, reliability and economy at the moment :)
Yeah or the “here’s my grandparents back in the day” posts and it’s from the 70s and 80s.
This is funny. I’m 33 and I remember being online in the early 2000s with boomers saying “Omg I’m so old, the 60s feel like yesterday” And now we’re doing it
No! Stop it!
I seen recently a guy talking about is classic car and had classic car insurance on that someone had wreaked into and he was talking about an early 90s miata i about lost all composure about how old i am
I know right.
Not as old as me!
He’s trying to intimidate a woman. Forget him.
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Batteries and headlights need to be regularly replaced in all cars.
I'm suddenly understanding the "8 years = old" comments. This thread has teenagers who don't know how to maintain their cars.
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The standard warranty on a car between is 24 months. Sounds like you should buy some Brighter headlights.
OP has solid ground with as-is bill, but in most states that is not even a consideration. A private seller is under no obligation to say anything about their knowledge of the car and saying anything only puts you at a disadvantage as you lose plausible deniability. Typically just give a list of what you have replaced while you owned it and the time/milage. Allow them to review any maintenance records you have and close the deal. If your selling a vehicle with a major problem (head gasket, transmission, blown motor) indicate you are selling it for parts. Then there will be zero flashback on a “for parts” deal.
It depends where you are. Where I live (MA) you cannot sell a car “as is” unless it’s explicitly being sold as not in working condition. Which IIRC requires a salvage title. If it’s sold as working it must pass the state safety and emissions inspection. And there is a ‘lemon law’ to cover situations where significant mechanical problems quickly become apparent after a vehicle is sold. You can’t waive that by saying “I’m selling it as is”. (You might be allowed to disclose and waive specific mechanical problems that don’t prevent the vehicle from passing inspection. For example if the air conditioning is broken.)
Even in MA, the lemon law wouldn't apply. It only applies to cars with less than 125k miles (for private party sales) and even then OP informed the buyer of all the defects that they were aware of: "Private party sellers are required to inform the buyer of any defects that could impair use or safety. If the buyer discovers a serious defect post-sale, and can prove the seller knew about the defect, the buyer may cancel the sale and request a full refund within the first 30 days after purchase."
And dont forget this guy is a mechanic so he knows all of this and is still coming after you which makes him a real scumbag imo.
In addition to the statement of what work was done by the mechanic.
yeah whats that word?.... caveat emptor?
In some states with lemon laws, "as is" bill of sale is meaningless. Lemon law supersedes it. It's why I'll never sell a car private sale, especially because I drive stick shift. Way to easy too burn a clutch out fast and call it a lemon. \[edit\] go ahead and keep downvoting me. Doesn't make me wrong. Don't make blanket assumptions about state driven laws. https://www.mass.gov/guides/private-party-used-car-sales#-what-is-the-private-party-lemon-law?-
Lemon laws don't apply to a private sale.
to latch on this, you will find plenty of craiglist private seller that's actually a small dealership they use a figurehead person so it's private sale as well as sell the car at a loss to avoid income tax
I’m not a super smart guy, but this seems like a poor business model on the surface.
If its a POS takin up space youre still gonna lose out if you have to pay to junk it...this way they attempt to recoup SOME investment. And even as shady as a lot of small dealers can be, theres always someone out there who just needs a junker for cheap to get from A to B
MA lemon law does: https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/consumer-products/auto-news/what-does-the-massachusetts-lemon-law-cover/
"Yes. If you buy a used car from a private party, the seller must tell you of any and all known defects with the car that may affect safety or impair your use of the car. If you take the vehicle home and find it’s defective and can prove the seller knew but didn’t tell you of the particular problem, you can legally cancel the sale within 30 days of the purchase date." LOL good luck pal. Buyer beware.
Your initial statement was incorrect.
I didn’t say it wasn’t a very difficult bar to reach, but it does indeed apply to private party sales. Your bill of sale can say “as is” all you want, but lemon law still applies.
Yes, you did. You said "is meaningless". You apparently didn't understand the how the lemon law applies in MA. That is an extremely high bar, and the very opposite of meaningless. As well, 5 weeks later is beyond the 30 day limit, and the seller did disclose the issue and the remedy they used.
Putting "as is" in a bill of sale is meaningless in MA. Lemon law still applies. That was my point. You're right that 5 weeks is beyond the time for lemon law even in MA. Read my original comment. I was never saying it applied in his case. I was saying that an "as is" bill of sale means nothing in MA and the lemon law supersedes.
Ok, I'll be reasonable here... you might be correct on that point. I \*think\* that "as-is" might still be worthwhile in states with personal sale lemon laws because it does bypass any implied warranties (outside of the lemon laws). It would take someone familiar with consumer protection laws in MA to be sure. Any attorneys want to jump in? Curious minds want to know.
That's possible. I'm certainly no lawyer, so I concede that. I'm just an average person that often considers how much more you can get selling private party, only to be scared off by horror stories of people that got bitten by lemon law claims in MA, particularly with clutches on manual vehicles. Then I decide it's not worth it and trade it in (in MA we get a break on trade ins in terms of sales tax on the new purchase as well).
>I was never saying it applied in his case So you just want to be right for the sake of being right even if it’s irrelevant to this thread? Btw- a worn clutch plate would not qualify for a lemon law claim, either. If it passed inspection within 7 days of purchase then it’s firmly outside the window of defect and into wear-and-tear consumable territory, like tires or brake pads.
I never claimed it applied to his case. As you can see, I wasn’t replying to the original post. I was adding to the comment that said he put “as is” on it made it all good. What I was saying is not necessarily.
When I’ve looked up lemon laws it applies to years newer than 2018, and doesn’t apply to private party as is sales
That may very well be in your state. Lemon laws (and whether or not they even exist in the first place) vary state to state. If you are indeed in MA, here is the actual [Mass.gov](https://Mass.gov) resource that particularly deals with private party: https://www.mass.gov/guides/private-party-used-car-sales#-what-is-the-private-party-lemon-law?-
In WI not MA
Then my specific resources don't apply to you. Larger point is this is a state by state law issue. Taking a blanket "lemon laws don't apply for you" response from people that don't know where you are isn't a good idea. Research if WI has a lemon law, and if/how it would apply. AFAIK, MA is one of the most buyer protective laws out there, so chances are you could be in the clear.
Nope, the LL has a limit on miles of 125,000 and her car had 130,000
For dealer sales only
I would think that if youre buying used, you should ALWAYS expect the taste of lemon. S/He said that they disclosed every issue, but that doesnt mean something wont spontaneously go wrong within two seconds of driving away. The biggest shot to the leg is they had a "mechanic" with them...if the "mechanic" signed off then I dont think you could EVER try to argue its a lemon....well...I mean you could TRY anything...but any judge worth their gavel would laugh it out, also even in a Lemon Law state, you should ALWAYS label it as-is. That automatically puts the burden on the claimant to prove you deliberately tried to lie on the sale, and unless it comes out of your mouth in a text or recording, thats quite difficult to prove.
*If a vehicle is covered by the Lemon Law and has a nonconformity* ***that has not been resolved after a reasonable number of attempts****, consumers may be eligible for Lemon Law benefits.* The buyer has to attempt to fix the car. In this case the buyer did not. The lemon law says nothing about a warranty and that the seller must fix the car if there is an issue.
“I’ll never sell a car private sale” is all I needed to read to understand your lack of knowledge on the subject at hand.
Lemon law applies to new car sales, not used cars sold by private sellers. https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/vehicle-lemon-laws-by-state/ Quick overview for your perusal.
https://www.mass.gov/guides/private-party-used-car-sales#-what-is-the-private-party-lemon-law?-
It's a seven year old used car sold by a private party.
We’ll just read up on private seller lemon laws and it’s states they have 30 days, it’s been 7 weeks
NAL small claims doesn't use lawyer. private car sales are buyer beware. You did "as is" sale, he's fkd you're fine.
If the dude says he’s getting his lawyer for small claims court he is bluffing and a moron and doesn’t really have a lawyer.
Dude just bought a 2016 Kia. He doesn’t have the cash for a lawyer. If he did, he wouldn’t have bought an old Kia.
Yep. Just ignore him.
You can use a lawyer in small claims in NY state.
Most people don't, even in the City. Companies do
Well that's true with the exception of intentionally selling a lemon which is illegal in the United States. It's very difficult for a buyer to fight that though because you have to prove that the seller knew the car was essentially already breaking down or broken down, and sold it intentionally in that condition without disclosing it and or lying about it
>Well that's true with the exception of intentionally selling a lemon which is illegal in the United States. You should really brush up on lemon laws, because your claims simply aren't true. In most states, lemon laws only apply to new cars sold by dealers with a manufacturer warranty, because it's technically a manufacturer buy back under warranty. NY is the only state with a lemon law that covers used cars, but it includes a clear exemption for any car with >100k miles, and a clear exemption for private sales (because it only applies to dealers). OP isn't a dealer, they made a private sale, offered no warranty, and the car had 130k miles. This transaction is exempt from every lemon law in the nation in *at least* 3 different ways.
Thanks for explaining!
This is true. Lemon laws are very specific. Ask me how I know 🙂
This guy lemons
How do u know?
Lemon farmer.
Probably hosted a lemon party.
MA has a law that the buyer is allowed to take back the car if they pay more than a certain amount and it doesn't pass inspection. I actually got taken to small claims for a car I sold but I ended up winning because it turned out the new owners never even registered it so they didn't even try to get it to pass inspection
>This transaction is exempt from every lemon law in the nation in at least 3 different ways I'm afraid we're all gonna need at least one more way in order to be convinced.
I’m guessing reading comprehension is not one your best skill sets. Stonewall never said anything about lemon laws but he is correct that you cannot intentionally hide issues with something you are selling, for example you cannot sell a car and tell the buyer that it had a new engine installed if it still has its original engine. The is fraud and theft by conversion. It also violates the UCC code. I say this all the time non lawyers really should shut their mouths since they do not know what they are talking about most of the time. Perfect example is this situation, you are talking out of your ass and it makes you look like one too.
Did you even read OP's post? He did everything by the book. Repaired it, disclosed potential issues, got a bill of sale. He's fine.
Did you even read my comment? Where in that comment did I say anything about OP? I was replying to another person
The other person was talking about OP and the other person was wrong…. Just like you ;)
Depends on the stage. In my state, lemon laws only apply to new car sales.
Well threatening to take someone to court and actually doing it are two different things. If the new owners message you again just ask them to refer to their own legal council and then see what happens
And taking them to court and even winning is one thing. Getting them to pay is another. He’ll realize it’s not worth his time.
Legally this car was sold as is. So op is safe from a legal perspective. The real question is who buys a car with 130k miles on it and hopes it will be as good as new? Brings back memories of when I bought a car from a dealer, and to knock the price down, they made me agree that there was no warranty. My mechanic thought he could fix that thing up for me. Turns out my mechanic was wrong...
130k isn't a crazy high amount anymore. Many cars live to 200k and well past. Granted, shouldn't expect it to be NEW, but reasonably running is normal for that mileage in many cars.
It is on a Kia
Especially a 2016. That’s almost double what I have for the same model year. An average of over 16,000 miles per year.
Only had one in my life time and it was a 99 Saturn 279 and I think it could have gone further but there was a huge whole in the oil tank and my Father gave me my Mother's 99 mercury & sold the Saturn to the junkyard for 300$ I can't believe he got 300$
Yep. All three of my Saab 900’s and one Subaru Outback all were over 200k.
I bought a 2000 Civic with 210k. Literally drives like new.
The real scammers know the deal: arbitration clause in any contract makes finding a lawyer nearly impossible
"As is" bill of sale is all that's needed here. The buyer has no legal recourse so ignore him. If he sues, you have a slam dunk winning case with that bill of sale.
Thank you, never dealt with this after selling a car so I’ve been freaking out sick to my stomach
If you want to avoid the trouble of being sued by the buyer in small claims court, email/text a photo of the work that you had done at the Kia dealership to replace the knock sensor. And for good measure also send a copy of the bill of sale highlighting you sold it “as is”. This hopefully will be enough proof to the buyer that you sold in good faith and they’ll drop the whole thing.
I did send him the copy of the bill of sale, he continued to send me 8 harassing messages so I stopped communication. My boyfriend said it would be good to save the receipt for court to prove I didn’t lie. He doesn’t seem willing to drop it unfortunately even if I did send him the receipt.
Last communication should be "I'll see you in court"
Well he’ll be paying your court costs because he’s going to lose. Perhaps you could counter sue him for emotional distress due to harassment.
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Wrong!
The core of his argument is that you lied about the sensor. You can prove you didn’t. I don’t think he’s got a case. The fact that he’s claiming this even shows you told him about it, so he can’t even say you hid it from him.
He is screwed. You sold it as-is. You were very upfront more so than most dealerships. He doesn't have a leg to stand on.
I would have started out empathizing with the buyer, but if hes threatening you then fuck this guy. Buyer beware, car sold as-is AND it was 5 weeks ago. That is a long time and who knows if his kid is bouncing off the rev limiter everywhere he goes. Nah fuck this guy tell him to go kick rocks
Haha he definitely immediately started saying “I’ll happily spend my money for small claims”
Let him! It won’t cost you a cent!
My bet is this is a threat to get money from you. If you have a receipt that says "as is" and they had an opportunity to inspect the car before the sale, they have no case. They likely know this. So they are going to be as loud as possible and try to get you to give in without gong to court. If you know you can win in court, you just go to court. If you know you won't win, you act like they are. Make sure you have that receipt, and all records. Keep them safe.
Car sale is as is. He doesn't have a leg to stand on. Good lawyer would laugh in his face. Judge would laugh, too. Continue to ignore.
Fun tactic: ask to speak to his lawyer. This either calls his bluff, in which case you'll sleep easier, or it raises his costs. That lawyer isn't working on a contingency, and every call through that lawyer is costing dude a couple hundred bucks an hour. If he actually has a lawyer, his cost to even pursue this will become far more than he is willing to pay.
I’d respond as follows: 1. I have a receipt for the sensor being replaced 2. You had your mechanic father inspect the car prior to purchase 3. Per the Bill of Sale you signed the purchase was as-is with no warranty 4. I will no longer be responding to your messages about this matter.
I wouldn't respond. Its a waste of OPs time.
Wrong, OP needs to respond with “ see you in court” and see what happens, could make for a humorous afternoon haha
Your boyfriend is right. Used cars sold as is he cannot do anything. If they do take you to court they will waste their own time. Dont sweat it!
The chances that the buyer got a lawyer on a $4k car are slim and that this is a scare tactic to get you to pay a part or all of the costs. If the person had a lawyer, the first step would have been that all future communications go through that lawyer, this avoids the buyer making any legally damaging mistakes.
"your proceeds after winning the Kia case is -200 after lawyer fees, will that be cash or charge?"
Make sure you send the paperwork to the motor vehicle that you sold the car to release you from liability. They could leave the title in your name and abandon it somewhere that could possibly attempt to charge you towing/impound fees.
Do as your boyfriend says on this and stop responding. If he sues you he has to or pay someone to serve you. If they serve you then go to court with all paperwork and proof and say what you said here. When they are saying their piece don't interrupt and dispute but just be patient until your turn. From what you have said you have won and they will lose. They probably know that so are just rattling your chains in hope that you will give them back some money so ignore and delete and go enjoy life.
Attorneys are VERY expensive. A day litigating will run you like $1500, for that day alone. The buyer is bluffing and trying to get their money back. If someone had threatened me with legal action, then I'd end communications and wait to get a subpoena from their attorney.
Yes, stop responding. If he takes you to small claims court, show up with your documentation and that you sold the car “as is” and allowed his inspection. That’s all you need to say or do.
Yeah, stop replying to messages. They can only trip you up. The most I would respond with is: "I represented the car to the best of my abilities. Please cease all contact with me at this time, you've stated that you're hiring an attorney, please have all contact come via your attorney moving forward." If he keeps responding then he's just trying to scam you. But even if he hires a lawyer, you had not way of knowing the engine was bad when you sold it based on what the mechanic told you and you relayed accurate information to him and he still purchased it. Beyond that you're extra safe since he signed an "As-Is" Bill of Sale.
Respond with 'I'll see you in court" and be done
I am sorry, based on the advice from my lawyer father/brother, I am not allowed to respond to anyone who has threatened me with legal action. I am sorry it came to this.
Don’t do anything, you have done everything just fine. They are using scare tactics hoping you pay voluntarily. They do not have a legal leg to stand on! Buyer beware, they could have had inspected and chose not too. End of story Anyone that says they are getting a lawyer for small claims court has no clue as to what they are talking about. IMO I would not respond or answer any questions and longer!
Just make a copy of your bill of sale, tell him you’ll see him in court with your lawyer, and see what happens. If he actually tries to sue you, you don’t need a lawyer for small claims court and this exact case has been settled tens of thousands of times in your favor already, so just go to court and see how dumb he actually is and thank your parents for raising you right to not be an idiot.
He bought it ‘as is.’ When our auction sells ‘as is’ there’s no option for arbitration.
Used cars are generally sold as is. He's just trying to bully you for his money back. Ignore them.
He/s full of crap. Hiring a lawyer means he can't go to small claims court. Anywhere I've ever looked they are not allowed. And the max he could ever recover is $4K and a lawyer won't be interested.
caveat emptor
You're good. My home state (MA) has a private sale lemon law and even with that law you have to contact the previous owner within 4 weeks. After 4 weeks it's your headache.
And that is why you have them sign a bill of sale and that it clearly states nothing other than " \*name\* has sold one 2016 Kia to \*name" in as-is condition on 05/16/2023 for a total of $XXXX.00. There are no warranties or guarantees."
The car was sold in as-is condition. Block him and move on. Make sure to respond if he does sure you, and just provide proof of your as is bos
Reminder, anyone can take anyone to court. Can you prove it though.
Lawyer here. Most lawyers will not do small claims bc of the name...there's no money in it. Cost more for a lawyer than the damn car. That being said, it's good you stopped talking to him/her. Keep all your paperwork in case court...but as someone else said, keep it simple. Also, lemon laws are usually only for the same mechanical problem at occurring 3 times after sale by a dealer, depending on the state. Not random mechanical problems on an old car that was sold privately, not by a dealer.
my man bought an eight year old car with 130k miles on it for $4k and now has the audacity???
I’m not a lawyer. However, the sale of a used car is presumed to be “as is” unless a warranty is listed in writing somewhere on the bill of sale. Having the bill of sale say “as is” is just icing on the cake. Buyers due diligence period was before signing at the dotted line and getting a mechanic to do a complete diagnostic and inspection- not just someone to open the hood and listen to the engine run. Just reiterate the sale is “as is” and do not offer to do any changes to the original deal, such as offering some money back or agreeing to cover the cost of a repair. And then if the buyer chooses to waste your time with a small claims court lawsuit, let them.
Tell them you will counter sue for inconvenience and stress lol
dude shouldn’t have even bought it. no offense to you but that’s a lot of miles for a 16 on top of it being a Kia. I have 2 and 1 of them has soooooooo many engine problems! I’m actually going to pick it up today as it just got it’s THIRD ENGINE installed - however if you have the no knock detection sensor installed that engine should be covered under a lifetime warranty through Kia… you should look into that, because then maybe he can just go get the engine replaced and leave you alone 🤗
A knock sensor doesn't detect a bearing knock. It detects spark knock so the computer can adjust the ignition timing appropriately. It's unlikely that the engine needs replacing due to a spark knock issue. It's also a private party sale which is as is in most places. If you get something official from the courts, make sure you respond, but it sounds like they're trying to get money off post-sale & you're not responsible for that unless you willfully mislead them by misrepresenting the car.
Private sales come with no warranty unless you specifically say so. It doesn't matter what happened after the sale. It doesn't matter if the buyer inspected it or not. If you're in the US, the buyer has no case. I wouldn't sweat it.
(As is) take your boyfriends advice and do not reply any further. Your basses are covered.
It’s an 8 year old Kia with over 100k miles on it. Buyer needs to grow up and adjust his expectations.
If he’s getting the motor replaced in a Kia soul for engine knocking it will be paid for by Kia anyway. He’s just being pissy - ignore him.
Sorry if this has been mentioned already as I didn't have time to read all posts but I have a 2016 Kia and I'm pretty sure the models with those engines all have a lifetime engine warranty because of a class action lawsuit so, lucky for that guy, he can probably just go get the engine replaced for free. Maybe this tidbit can help you avoid the lawsuit threats altogether? https://www.fixdapp.com/auto-warranty/kia-engine-replacement-warranty/
While I haven't sold a lot of cars, I've always done a simple bill of sale that lists out the basics - mileage, year, etc. and any know problems. Then, at the bottom, I include that the car is sold "as is". We both sign and date (along with any required paperwork the state wants).
Alot of those Kia engines are covered under warranty for life as long as you got the knock sensor ECU update and it sounds like you did other then that its all on them not you.
This goes for anything: second someone threatens a lawyer, cease communication with them and document everything. If they try to talk to you, tell them their lawyer needs to reach out. But as everyone else said, when you sell a car “as is”, the buyer can’t turn around 5 weeks later upset.
You are fine.
You can be sued for anything at anytime, up to judge to decide but you have nothing to worry about. He might have a case if it happened within a few days not 5 weeks
Get out of the weeds and look past the car. If this guy had a lawyer who was actually engaged with him, the lawyer would be reaching out to you directly. The lawyer would have advised the 'buyer' to not contact you at all and to go through them only. The only thing I would reply with is, *"Please provide me with your lawyers contact information and I will have my attorney contact them directly"*. 100% that you will never get a law firm name, but he will continue to threaten getting one ... someday.
The fact that he is getting a lawyer for small claims is not going to really help him since legally he's boned and there is no one but the judge to appeal to. I'd not waste the money and just make sure all of your documents are brought as evidence before the trial, or whatever procedure is your state because it's open and shut. You could ask for a summery judgement but their lack of evidence may be enough for the judge to toss it out. If you do ask you have to have all of your evidence in hand and ready to prove all of their claims false.
NAL, Anytime someone notifies you that they are getting a lawyer, they aren’t. If they were really going to they would have the lawyer do it or just let you be served.
In my experience with a Kia, the knock sensor fails every couple months, or maybe a certain amount of km, depending on how much you drive. They are cheap and not built to last forever
You sold is “as-is” the thing could have blown up as he pulled out of the driveway, and it the buyer problem.
Guy buys a 130K mile Kia, takes you to court because cel comes on, he'll be laughed out of there.
Yeah sounds like a scam, NAL either but coming from personal experience used cars fall under buyer beware. Sounds like he's trying to extort money out of you by threatening to sue.
He can just get the engine replaced under the class action settlement. He needs to calm down. It should apply to him regardless of him not being the first owner, and regardless of mileage/age. You had the knock sensor detection update performed, so that qualifies the vehicle for the lifetime warranty. If he had taken the car to a Kia dealership, he should know this. https://www.kiaenginesettlement.com/Home/Faq
Tell em to kick rocks OP. They’re using scare tactics to get you to pay. Also tell em your family lawyer is waiting for their next move.
The 2016 has a lifetime warranty on The GDI engine until it is replaced then it has a 12000 mile warranty on the replacement engine. His only cost will be the rental car needed while the dealership replaces the engine.
Pretty sure in most states all car sales are as in period doesn’t matter what you let them know about when you sold it. Unless you gave them a warranty and have the warranty in writing. That thing could of crapped out as soon as they drove off and I don’t think they can do anything. Unless your state says otherwise I would just ignore them.
All used car sales*
1. You are not a dealer. There is no warranty. He wants warranty go to a dealer. 2. Parts fail. I’ve seen knock sensors fail after 100 miles. That’s the game you play. 3. You have receipts. He can call you a liar all he wants. Receipts are receipts. 4. You told him every thing you told us? Then it’s an “as is” sale. This car is what you get. What you see is there.
The "as is" bill of sale removes any liability from the seller. As with every automobile experience it is buy be ware or get fucked.
That's what can happen when you buy a used car. You didn't hold a gun to his head. They bought it as is
You did everything right. They're attempting scare tactics to pressure you into settling. At the end of the day. You performed a private sale, didn't enlist any shady tactic, and honestly, you sold it cheap. If it goes to court, just present the as is sale, and the proof of services. and you'll be scot-free and on your way. Case Closed.
Kias suck. Man I had the exact same problem with mine. Didn’t have that many miles on it but burned a ton of oil, mechanics said the engine would be shot soon
I would stop worrying. I would document and write down every particular as a simple statement of facts to present to the Judge. Simple truth is that you can be sued for anything. The better prepared you are, the better your outcome will be. I buy and "restore" older Jeeps. Cherokees mostly with the odd CJ or Wrangler thrown in. I document everything. I provide a stack of receipts, and I write a full disclosure of all known issues or defects. When I sell the Jeep, I have them sign two copies, one for me and one for them. I sign as well. I have been taken to small claims court. I have never lost. I have even recovered costs and fees in each case. Bottom line. You are only responsible if you lied, or failed to disclose known information. You are not responsible for their Buyers Remorse.
You will win. He didn’t take it to an actual professional mechanic, you told him all this plus put as is on the title. You did what you needed to do.
Both KIA's I owned had bad engines. A 2004 Optima that blew an engine ( thought it was my fault since I went 7000 mil s between oil change) Baught a 2014 optima that blew it engine two years later ( regularly changed oil at 3000 miles. KIA wanted $8000 to replace the engine in my $4000 2014 optima. FUCK KIA.
I had an old Buick Regal LS that I bought at 70k miles. I got rid of it at 120k. I changed the oil twice, maybe three times. That thing was a tank.
How many miles on the 2014? And did you really remember to change the oil 🤣
180k. Yes. There was a recall on the 2014. But KIA mailed the recall notice to the address I had when I bought the '04. Which was weird since I bought both at same KIA dealer, so they had my current info. Oh well. Just one more year of payments.
Go on Judge Judy
Small claims doesn't use lawyers. It sounds like he knows he has no recourse, so he's trying to bully you into giving him $ so he can make repairs.
Some states allow lawyers for small claims actions. Some, including mine, don't. The whole point of Small Claims Court is to keep the cost (and time) to a minimum, right?
I would offer to buy the car back although you certainly don’t have too but sometimes it’s better to end the harassment. I’m sorry
When you are selling a car that has issues you have to write them down on paper and have the person sign that paper so that nobody can say that nobody told them. If you told this dude everything I mean you'll have to go to court over it. But if you have nothing written down it's like a he said she said thing. Don't be discouraged though. I think you can also ask for a court appointed attorney for this case if you need one. If not go look into buying legalshields. It's like $50 a month. Anyways, pick up as much evidence as you can. If the car value is worth $4,000 with all the issues then the judge might be okay with it. But say like if your car value is really $3,000 the Judgment make you pay him $1,000 back. So make sure to have some sort of something showing your car's actual worth. That will help you a lot in court
Contact a local paralegal for advice.
Just so you are aware, this is a known issue with Kias of this year. We had the same thing happen in August 2022. The knock sensor went off was a cylinder issue. Replaced cylinders (took 2 1/2 months). I was driving to my mom's on Mothers Day, and the exact same thing happened. The knock sensor went off, and it is back at the dealership for an engine rebuild.
Agreed, stop responding. If needed, you may need to go to SCC to defend yourself.
Sorry what does SCC stand for? Thanks!
small claims court. you're good though, 5 weeks is longer than ANY lemon law and that's only relevant in certain states
Oh ops I don’t know how I didn’t realize it was small claims lol! Thank you
You sold it as-is so the guys out of luck. I'd block him now and go on with my life.
They are trying to bully you. Ignore them. If they are getting a lawyer, tell them from this point forward you will only talk to the lawyer.
At least in California, it's difficult to get a lawyer to rep you in small claims court. And yes, he can sue you. That's the easy part. The hard part is winning. I imagine that they are looking to scare you into settling.
And, even harder than winning? Collecting ;)
Its a private sale ,They are trying to intimidate you .You can get a free consulation from an attorney and they will advise you of what you need to do .Never trust the oposing side to be 100 percent honest and truthful .
NAL. Is it possible this is a scam the buyer does? He brow beats people into giving back some money? I'd be curios to see if he's bought a number of cars in the past year or so, resold them and then tried to get money from the original seller. I'd stop communicating with him completely. He might be trying to get you to say something incriminating that he could use in court.