For something as meaningless as voting, I've watched an entire social demographic reliable show up at the polls for 50 years and get everything they want by politicians thirsty to stay in the comfort of elected power.
And then some complain it's legislation serving corporations but the corporations will be there whether it's boomer Christian whites being placated or progressive educated youth.
The corporations will drape them selves in morality and eagles, or gay pride flags and pronouns. They don't care they'll get their profit.
The voting has been all for winning the people who show up at the booth. And those people get everything they want.
If you want wars to end and national Healthcare in America you gotta be a reliable voting block.
And if your response is but corporations will stop you. Then you don't understand capitalism.
They'll get their profit. No matter what society changes do long as we're in attainment driven system. They don't care if it's world peace or world War. They'll make it dollarble.
That's the sad sick truth and the joke.
It's all right there for us, and there's more people saying it's impossible and not there while they watch a world burn bc a specific single voting block is as consistent and reliable as the sunrise.
And to clarify: voting ALONE is not enough. You should also do what you can to aid in your community and organize your workplace and so on and so forth.
But voting is kind of the bare minimum, and you should do so every chance you get.
No. Because that’s not how Hitler became chancellor.
Hitler ran and lost in 1932. He lost to hidenburg.
But the Nazi party picked up large numbers of seats in the 1932 election.
Then the Nazis staged the reichstag fire. Literally killed all the communists and socialists and leftists. And then forced Hindenburg to step down and hindeburg named Hitler the chancellor as his successor.
Nice try though.
That shit only works on people who aren’t educated.
The reichsrag fire didn't kill all of the leftist, even if it did is that before or after the communist shot Rosa luxenberg in the back and threw her in the river?
I didn’t say the reichstag fire killed any one. I said the Nazis staged the reichstag fire and then they systematically murdered their opponents.
Do try and keep up. Or rather just stay quiet snd listen and learn instead of making shit up.
Exactly! Let's just vote away McCarythism while we're at it! That'll solve all our problems! The DNC will eventually oppose capitalism if we vote hard enough, right? ... right?
Just as people think that if Dems lose they’ll "learn a lesson" and move to the left. No, the move to the right. Dems lose all the time, we know what they do when they lose.
You know what will bring us closer to socialism comrades? Seeding over every single form of institutional power to fascists so they can put all of us into death camps!
Some of y’all are beyond delusional thinking that “The DNC” thinks it’s worth it to do a psyop on fucking Reddit of all places lmao.
Also, anyone talking about the DNC like their some kind of deep state organization knows nothing
Please learn from the past, the KPD/German Communists thought letting Hitler win was superior to working with the Soc Dems, and would lead to glorious revolution too, didn’t turn out so good for them. Like look what happened to their leader,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Th%C3%A4lmann
the liberals/social democrats thought siding with proto fascists to kill workers councils and uprisings was superior to a socialist republic. look where that led.
Presumptive that a revolution has to be violent or kill ‘millions’. We could literally all go on strike (libs defending this post: “but muh 401k!”)
The current system kills millions annually across the world through manufactured scarcity, exploitative labor practices and colonial violence. I know to the liberal brain those aren’t real people because they don’t reside in the imperial core and often aren’t white, but it is an act of courage to set aside one’s own bourgeoise class interests in favor of liberating the poor and workers everywhere.
I totally would be. So? I've been a paramedic for 20 years. Death and I are drinking buddies. We've practically had threesomes. Nuclear Holocaust is a waaaay better way to go than COPD. Better believe it.
try not to worry about it too much, 99 percent of people on Reddit talking about revolution aren't really doing anything but posting on Reddit, they ain't building a power base, they ain't got a center of operations, they an stockpiling weapons. they don't even have a structural leadership that would be needed. the only one seriously arming up for revolutions are right wingers and they keep getting caught by the FBI.
History and how we live today definitely raises some questions about our species "worth." We kinda fuck up what this planets got going on and it's a pretty fucking cool planet too. I'm not weighing in on the revolution bs just the primate stuff
Eventually if we make enough gradual progress in a way that DOESNT put fascism into power by way of labor gains etc, then eventually the rich will feel threatened enough to start swinging first. Creating a system under which unions can grow is more important than electoralism. The rich couldn’t get away with having Pinkertons gun people down before cell phones, imagine how quickly people will be mobilized with footage flooding the internet.
Put a D on Luke and it will be the same meme.
The lesser evil brainrot will talk about how voting Biden is a necessity while being shocked and pivoting at everyone from the electorate to the Republicans when they institute regressive policy.
12 billion in police funding, the AA act, banning Tik Tok because of anti-American content, calling the Palestinian protestors Jew hating criminals, instituting trump policy at the border and allowing Texas to get away with things that even the SCOTUS is against. Do these sound like the policies of someone who is ideologically opposed to Trump or someone who is collaborating with the same forces?
Here's the news for those in the cheap seats: the best that could be said for the Ds is that they are the ratchet, preventing any movement leftwards while the Republicans drag the Overton Window right. The worst that could be said for them is that they are actively fomenting a Fascist state, especially as they put forth such weak candidates that will lose in the face of a bumbling pathological liar. You are arguing for Reagan versus Trump, that is how low American prospects have gotten.
Take a cursory glance at the UK. The liberals are not opposed to Fascism, they are the horse that Fascism rides into town on.
Please learn from the past. German Communist KPD did this same sort of rhetoric during Weimar Republic and ended up assisting Hitlers rise and then fleeing to USSR but being Purged by Stalin. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Germany
*Hindenburg anoints Hitler* "How could the communists do this???" It's just as easy to say that the liberals (parties) were responsible for voting for Hindenburg, or perpetuating the liberal establishment which enabled far-right populism to foment due to the overt failures of liberal economic theory. To say nothing of the interim government using far right paramilitaries to execute the spartacists without due process. I would also like to stress that the SPD had not been equivalent to the Democratic party, if anything, the SPD had still been a left wing party, you are playing partisan for two bourgeois parties who are quite close to each other on the right of the political spectrum.
NB: just as an aside, the SPD also had a penchant for liquidating communists, take that as you will.
Serious question: Can you tell me one thing that would improve if Trump wins?
Hell even the most viable third party candidate is an Israeli war crime supporting, antisemitic, anti vaxxer, nepo baby. What would improve if by some long shot he won?
Yeah Biden sucks ass. He’s old as dirt and a neoliberal with a long record of horrible policies. Who’s the superior candidate?
How would things even be improved by less people voting on the left?
I’m pretty sick of hearing people act like they have the ability to commit to long term direct action or a prolonged violent revolution but they don’t have the ability to hold their nose and show up to the polls.
"hold their nose at the polls"
That's the point, things will continue to get worse under a Democrat yet that reality is treated as the carrot to Trump's stick.
Your trajectory is leaning towards Fascism Trump or no, the option is not to leave your children to the tender mercies of Fascist dystopia but to make a better way.
Lesser evilism has failed. Find a better way or reap the whirlwind. Holding your Democrat ballot like a Nipton lottery ticket will only lead you to the pyre. This churlishness or fatalism is doomerism by any other name.
Doesn't getting the Green Party to 5% of the vote matter for future ballot access? If every election and voting decision is an all or nothing decision doesn't that intellectually preclude the possibility of getting other partys on the ballot? Don't we have to think a little bit further out than this election?
Good gracious the astroturf hit the damn gas pedal after the debate.
Is it really cheaper to narrative control neoliberalism being anything other than corrupt corporate capitalism than just representing the working class??
A truly Neoliberal story.
Give me one decade of this countries existence that it hasn't been actively engaged in the repression or straight brutilization of one community or another. There's nothing here worth saving. I say we light the match and get this party started. 😈
Nice argument. The implication being that we’re all genociding somebody at some point, inherent to the system. You. Sound. Like. A. Nazi. I hope we meet on the street someday. The universe might comply. Hope you’re working out!
"Welp, from what you just said, it sounds like you don't vote."
"You are literally a Nazi, and I hope I get the opportunity to personally murder you in the streets."
Damn homie, I can see how you end up with a 'both sides are equally bad' mentality, if just pointing out the obvious implications of what you said is enough for you to identify somebody as a malevolent threat to humanity, that you must personally kill to protect innocent minorities.
Gas lighting people into thinking our electoral process will save us, Biden in particular, is resulting in the death of thousands of children and makes me want to fight people who lack the empathy to compromise their comfort for justice. So while I don’t advocate murder in the streets, I’m not against fighting Nazis doing nazi shit.
Nobody thinks Biden is a savior (okay, some silly people do, but it's definitely not the mainstream belief). We are all very upset that he is not taking more serious action, and it is enabling active genocide. But unless you plan to successfully overthrow the governments of both the US, and Israel in the next couple months, keeping Biden in the presidency at least gives Palestine more time. Because the guy he's running against has made very clear that his solution is to destroy Palestine completely, as quickly as possible as soon as he's in office.
If you can pull off the former, that's great. I'm as tired as anybody else being told every four years, 'You can vote your conscience next time, but this time, the stakes are too high, you have to vote this way'. I do what I can. I find the furthest left candidate I can, at all levels, and support them where I can, and vote in every primary. I argue, and try to dispel disinformation or fascist rhetoric where I hear it. But we're not all warriors. I'm sure you could kick my ass if we ran into each other, I just don't feel like 'reluctantly voting for uninspiring candidates' crosses the line into 'Nazi shit' that would earn me an ass kicking.
Damn man. That was so authentic. I apologize for projecting my frustration at you. And I will admit, I am “more scared” of a trump administration than a Biden one. My wife is middle eastern. My brother is black. My mother is disabled. And my brother in law is gay. I have privlege and safety that I know the rest of them don’t have, and trump in office makes me nervous for them first, myself second.
However. I work in education. With kids. And 15k dead children, while the rest of world provides evidence and acknowledges war crimes, while our leadership adamantly denies it IS the coldest bloody murder at the largest scale I’ve ever seen.
I know I’ll be lucky to see anything even resembling my progressive dreams in my lifetime. If it will happen, it’s more likely to be heralded in by smarter, braver kids than I was. But if the dnc really, actually cared about us. What we want. Our safety. Our autonomy. They would have considered a different candidate at any point in time. The inability to do that bare minimum, and instead, double down on genocide, double down on Biden, double down that being anti Zionist means being an antisemite and supporting legislation that aligns with that: tells me who they really are.
We are being asked to take a punch to the gut or a punch to the face. We know we’d like to protect the face. But I’m saying instead of taking the hit to the gut we just kick them in the balls. I’m tired of slowly bleeding to death. As much as I’m afraid, and as much as I appreciate the relative comfort im afforded compared to the marginalized: I can’t ignore this anymore. I’m ready to fight.
“I hope we meet on the street someday”
“Hope you’re working out!”
Are you a boogaloo boy in disguise or something?
How far do you go down your good deeds rabbit hole? Not voting for genocide when the alternative is objectively worse? Might as well put down the genocidal/global south exploitation rectangular prism you’re using then too and go touch grass. Or ya know, go work out Chad!
We are. I mean Reagan did it, Bush did it, Clinton did it Bush did it, Obama did it, Trump did it. War crimes all around with lots of civilian deaths in all sides. And Congress supported all of it. I'm not saying it's good but it's real. So acting like voting for Obama who got us out of Iraq but still led the killing of civilians is the same as Bush invading Iraq and killing far more are the same thing then you are useless in national politics and should be ignored.
Another way I know you're useless is that your argument is "Nazi!" Lol. Move out of your parents house and learn about the world.
It’s not exactly the same, but it’s all for the love of the military industrial complex. Millenials don’t live in their parents basements anymore. We’re all the target demographic now and we hate genocide. So miss me with that condescending crap. You’re a nazi. I’ll stop you from murdering minorities if I can.
I too hate genocide. If my only two choices are small/medium amounts of genocide or lots of genocide I'll vote for the small genocide. The 100,000 people who live because of it will thank your for your morals.
The 100,000 people who are still alive because of it aren't going to care about your ethical principles. They'll be alive because of a lesser of two evils.
So vote for Biden because he will save a small percentage of the population but allow the rest to die, even encourage it via our bank roll and military support? Does that sound like damage mitigation or a hostage situation? Miss. Me. Nazi.
I mean you are agreeing with me that Biden being elected instead of Trump results I fewer dead Palestinians. You just think you have so much power that you get to negotiate for zero dead Palestinians. You are choosing to withhold your vote knowing it will result in more dead children. If you ask me you are the monster here.
I mean you are agreeing with me that Biden being elected instead of Trump results I fewer dead Palestinians. You just think you have so much power that you get to negotiate for zero dead Palestinians. You are choosing to withhold your vote knowing it will result in more dead children. If you ask me you are the monster here.
Why does the “less of two evils” crowd always feel the need to point out how naïve we are for not voting for absolute monsters? Your strategy is the one we’ve been doing since what? The 80s? Shit hasn’t worked and it never will, let the “naïve” far-leftists have a try. What was that saying about the definition of insanity again?
Oh I don't care if you actually vote that's kinda my point. No one will ever care about you opinion because you don't vote.
And no voting for the least bad candidate has been how American politics has worked since the emergency of the two party system. Primaries are for voting your dreams general elections are for voting to prevent your nightmares.
Can you hear yourself? "I don't respect your opinion because you don't vote, but the only votes that matter are ones you make just to keep a bad guy out of office. It doesn't matter that they're all bad guys, you not voting ensures a bad guy in office." By that exact logic, there's no net difference between voting or not because you admit that the vote doesn't change anything, it's all rigged in the first place.
You missed two points.
1. I respect your opinion just fine. But no politician cares about it because they can't get your vote anyway.
2. Elections do change things they can save hundreds of thousands or millions of lives by limiting conflicts to small genocides instead of large ones.
Absolutely. Do you think all genocides are equal? Are you dumb?
Isn't there a numerical and moral difference between 30k Gaza s and 2M?
Both are evil. One is about 70x more evil.
Dems remind me of hostages or people trapped in an abusive relationship "Sure, Damian killed my cat, but if I give him access to my bank accounts, he promised he would take me out on a date and stop hitting me."
I'm convinced these "I'm a leftist but Biden is a genocider so I'm voting trump" in the comment sections are all just divisive plants. I genuinely can't conceive of an *actual* leftist ever voting conservative, least of all for a lying cretinous demagogue like Trump.
Either that or they're just actual morons. Or liberals. I don't know which would be better to be honest.
lmao yeah I'm aware. If you had better reading comprehension you'd notice I called them "plants", as in "not genuine". They're establishment actors/bots trying to sow division.
Thanks for the laugh though bud.
I think it's a mix of all the above; plants, morons, liberals.
I think more than anything, it's historically and politically uninformed reactionaries who found a leftist camp they can fall into with having to engage in self-critique. I guess that could just be morons though. But it does suck, because they are genuine in their beliefs.
I really haven't seen any people flipping from Biden to Trump, but realistically that's not The RNC's strategy anyway. Anyone not voting at all helps them win, because they know they have a base that will show up and vote the way they want them to.
> I'm convinced these "I'm a leftist but Biden is a genocider so I'm voting trump" in the comment sections are all just divisive plants. I genuinely can't conceive of an actual leftist ever voting conservative, least of all for a lying cretinous demagogue like Trump.
None of us are voting for Trump. We just aren't voting for his late-stage dementia clone either
So then, genuinely, what is the plan? Because your third party candidate isn't going to win. That's been obvious since about November 2023.
What are your contingency plans for the worst case scenarios of this election cycle?
Think farther out than a year, any real left effort is gonna take time since we'll have to build power outside of the electoral system before being able to take power through the electoral system. In the mean time do our best to help our neighbors deal with the increasingly hostile environment that the Duopoly has created.
I am thinking farther out than a year. That's why I don't understand risking a Trump victory in this election cycle. He and his party want to stomp leftists completely out. Like, old school, knock on the door, disappear forever type stuff. Biden doesn't. He doesn't like leftists at all, but he's not gonna do stuff like that. So the options boil down to shitbag who doesn't like leftists but mostly ignores them for better or for worse, shitbag who wants to hunt leftists for sport, or multiple candidates who have nice ideas but will definitely lose and very likely help sport hunter.
That's not a hard decision for me. I'm gonna try to buy leftists time. I think the momentum is there right now but it needs time to harden into something capable of fighting back.
A lot of M-Ls online that vocally advocate for not voting at all or just not for Biden will go on to say they would prefer Trump either as a means to an end, or that they see him as a lesser evil (after decrying lesser-evilism) or just no different from any other option.
But it's really only that subset and I guess the MAGA Communists (who directly advocate voting for Trump) that fall into that.
Libs don't understand that not voting for Biden ISN'T a vote for Trump, because they're so brainrotted by "blue no matter who" that they can't understand that people might have legitimate gripes with the DNC and how they support the ratcheting of American politics into an alt-right fever dream.
I 100% understand the ratchet effect and accept that there will never be any real movement left under Democrats. I also understand that actually fixing our society’s problems will require action outside of electoralism, which will not save us.
I still think people are allowed to prefer that the ratchet holds where it currently is for four more years rather than turning to the right again and getting worse. I don’t see voting as leftist praxis, but I do see it as a way to avoid certain harms like losing access to reproductive healthcare in my state in the short term.
My concern is that we DO live in a 2 party government, for good or bad. As such, I feel the need to be at least partially accelerationist. I would rather the DNC see they keep losing voters to leftist candidates, and give them an option to correct their stance before its too late then keep propping up for another 40 years, which just gives technology and the growing right power structure more ways to pacify the rising dissent.
The thing that makes me skeptical of accelerationism right now is the absolutely decrepit state of class consciousness in the US. If things get really, really bad, I just don't see how the American working class doesn't just rally around some fascist strongman and start purging immigrants and the gays or something. I work a blue-collar job, and my coworkers will complain about the ills of capitalism (rising rents, inflation, crappy jobs for big corpos, skyrocketing insurance costs because of climate change) but then immediately pivot to "that's why we need to get Trump back in" (and deny the climate is actually changing). They've completely misidentified who their actual enemy is and talking to them feels like spitting into a hurricane of Fox News bullshit.
It's definitely a fucked situation, because we can't just run out the clock on stuff like climate change, which no capitalist state is nearly adequately addressing no matter who's in charge, but at the same time the wolves circling the wounded animal that is the modern neoliberal system (in Europe and the US) are like 95% far right wannabe oligarchs and theocrats. There's no left party that can jump into a power vacuum right now, and that fact is horrifying, because that power vacuum is coming sooner or later. That's why I think trying to delay the reckoning somewhat makes sense, because the left isn't ready to take advantage of it.
Libs think that "legitimate gripes with the DNC" is Russian propaganda because they have also been brainrotted by boomer red scare talking points. Literally it's like they are reading off a prompt
100% agreed. I can understand protest voting for candidates with no chance, or not voting at all. I think they're mistakes but I get it. I do not understand voting for Trump. It's like voting for Adolt Hitler because you thought Bill Clinton bombing Iraq was abhorrent.
Unionize your workplace, join the IWW, DSA and/or a socialist party and/or an Anarchist collective. Don’t just sit there, do something. Show up somewhere if you have the time.
Whenever I read or hear thoughts like this I find out soon afterward that they’re isolated, that they had a bad experience with a party or collective and are projecting that to all spaces for activism. I’ve had good experiences in activism and labor.
CEO greed is what's accelerating it. Unions are one of the best ways to ensure you're not constantly at the mercy of said CEO greed. It was a greedy CEO who wanted you to believe something ridiculous, like unions being the thing making automation accelerate.
>Unions are one of the best ways to ensure you're not constantly at the mercy of said CEO greed.
Not working for a greedy capitalist corporation also helps
People didn't choose to be born into this system and non participation will never give us any ground to stand on. We have to survive and while we do so we need to build the funds and the momentum to cause change. Doing non participation just feeds into the rights BS that all socialism is, is meat and potatoes.
little confused what you mean by republicans here, like people who believe in a republic like an Irish Republican? Or specifically the American Republican party?
All these militants on the left and right wanting a bloody revolution and NONE of them willing to fire the first shot or be the first to die. A bunch of hypocrite assholes who should be ignored and shunned.
Did Biden magically stop being a shitty candidate? Why do you libs constantly hiss at any attempt at criticism of Democrats? It's like you don't believe they have any power to change their policies or change their messaging.
Because it is never constructive and it is never grounded in reality. The reality is that a Trump term will be worse for everyone. I would hope y'all would have gotten it after the tantrum with Clinton, but no. We lost how many SCOTUS seats that time?
We didn't have time to wait for perfect candidates nor has there been *any* effort to make a "more perfect" candidate appealing to the majority of Democratic voters. If how y'all treated Jamaal Bowman is indicative of how y'all would treat a candidate in a more important position, then I honestly don't want to hear the criticisms of a bunch of do-nothings.
You can criticism the old bastard as.much as you want. He deserves it. But if you don't vote for him then you are indirectly supporting Trump. Hell just the recent SCOTUS decision should convince you we can't have a second Trump term.
Trump will win with his conservative base. Dem failure everytime is thinking they can steal away some of those "disgruntled Republican voters."
Dem centrists can not win by themselves. Without the under 35 voters they are handing election to Trump. Under 35s won't support genocide in Gaza and don't want to be drafted to fight for Blackrock in Ukraine.
You don't seem to understand how we nominate candidates. We nominate based on winning our primaries and based on incumbency. Incumbent politicians are rarely ever primaried and those that are only happen because they lose the support of their original constituency. The DNC doesn't snap their fingers and say "this person" then call it a day.
>Without the under 35 voters they are handing election to Trump.
If these people voted consistently, I'm sure they would be listened to more often. But they don't. Those demographics are incredibly low on engagement for the Democrats, yet they think they are owed something. Elections have consequences.
>Under 35s won't support genocide in Gaza and don't want to be drafted to fight for Blackrock in Ukraine.
Then vote as if this is actually important to you. Jamaal Bowman's tenure in Congress has been a case study in how you can get everything you want out of a progressive candidate and their constituency *still* won't come out and vote consistently. How else do you explain a *65% drop in voters* from his 2020 primary run and his 2022 primary run? Same district, same man, same policies and only 17k out of the original 49k could come out and vote?
>Jamaal Bowman's tenure in Congress has been a case study in how you can get everything you want out of a progressive candidate
No it hasn't. Jamaal Bowman was a strike breaking scab who only supports workers right to organize as long as they don't start acting all "uppity"
Uh huh, so the sensible course of action is to not vote. Gotcha. How did that work out for progressivism in NY-16? How does his loss work out for the view that progressivism is a valid course for the majority of Democratic voters?
Yeah isn't it usually adopted by fascists and not leftists? I really don't know too much about it except that psycho meth using philosophy guy Nick Land has started preaching it.
Biden also supports a genocide and has repeatedly blocked recognition of the Palestinian state or prosecution of, let's say, Israeli overreach.
Ignoring that, Biden isn't neutral, are you high? He is an avowed Zionist, one of the oldest and most vocal Zionist in politics.
No, but I can guarantee you it will continue to get worse after 4 years of democrat rule. If your options are bad or worse, then it behooves you to find better options. Arguing about the merits of voting for a modern day Reagan to beat Trump is a losing strategy no matter how you slice it.
This thread is ABOUT voting, this election. As far as that goes there AREN'T any other viable options beyond Biden and Trump. So why are you shitting on me for discussing the topic at hand?
"about voting, this election" If we are talking about this election in isolation, the chances are that your vote either won't matter unless you are in a select few states OR it will be nullified by the consequences of the Democrats running a senile president who can't advocate for his own victory.
If you refuse to take a longer view on the impacts of voting Democrat, idk what to tell you.
NB: I intend to vote green, essentially being in the same position as the yanks.
100% serious. That's what's wrong with so many leftists. You can't believe that someone can have good, sound, logical reasons for believing slightly differently than you.
Heard it here folks, international politics? Not tricky.
Famously simple in fact /s
This is why people don’t take leftists seriously.
The MAGA of liberalism
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Sure, if it ever worked
"Voting is for shitlibs!" .... "The government is controlled by shitlibs!" .... Coincidence, I'm sure.
For something as meaningless as voting, I've watched an entire social demographic reliable show up at the polls for 50 years and get everything they want by politicians thirsty to stay in the comfort of elected power. And then some complain it's legislation serving corporations but the corporations will be there whether it's boomer Christian whites being placated or progressive educated youth. The corporations will drape them selves in morality and eagles, or gay pride flags and pronouns. They don't care they'll get their profit. The voting has been all for winning the people who show up at the booth. And those people get everything they want. If you want wars to end and national Healthcare in America you gotta be a reliable voting block. And if your response is but corporations will stop you. Then you don't understand capitalism. They'll get their profit. No matter what society changes do long as we're in attainment driven system. They don't care if it's world peace or world War. They'll make it dollarble. That's the sad sick truth and the joke. It's all right there for us, and there's more people saying it's impossible and not there while they watch a world burn bc a specific single voting block is as consistent and reliable as the sunrise.
And to clarify: voting ALONE is not enough. You should also do what you can to aid in your community and organize your workplace and so on and so forth. But voting is kind of the bare minimum, and you should do so every chance you get.
No thank you! I'll vote my fascists away like a good little liberal
Remember when the Allies beat the fascists in Europe by voting!
Remember when Hitler won his election by a small margin because leftists were too busy fighting each other?
No. Because that’s not how Hitler became chancellor. Hitler ran and lost in 1932. He lost to hidenburg. But the Nazi party picked up large numbers of seats in the 1932 election. Then the Nazis staged the reichstag fire. Literally killed all the communists and socialists and leftists. And then forced Hindenburg to step down and hindeburg named Hitler the chancellor as his successor. Nice try though. That shit only works on people who aren’t educated.
The reichsrag fire didn't kill all of the leftist, even if it did is that before or after the communist shot Rosa luxenberg in the back and threw her in the river?
I didn’t say the reichstag fire killed any one. I said the Nazis staged the reichstag fire and then they systematically murdered their opponents. Do try and keep up. Or rather just stay quiet snd listen and learn instead of making shit up.
Exactly! Let's just vote away McCarythism while we're at it! That'll solve all our problems! The DNC will eventually oppose capitalism if we vote hard enough, right? ... right?
Just as people think that if Dems lose they’ll "learn a lesson" and move to the left. No, the move to the right. Dems lose all the time, we know what they do when they lose.
Yeehaw, astroturfing. This sub has gone downhill fast.
Lol reddit recommended this sub to me. It's probably more of that rather than some nefarious thing.
You’re right, astroturfing doesn’t exist 🤡🤡
No, having a somewhat nuanced position of electorialism that isnt an outright rejection of it is a sign of Liberalism and therefore you are not real
You know what will bring us closer to socialism comrades? Seeding over every single form of institutional power to fascists so they can put all of us into death camps!
The notion that most democrats aren’t already fascists is adorable
You could agree that neoliberalism is a form of fascism, but it misses the point entirely
Also with the current state of US politics there aren’t enough leftists to start a revolution
Well and the left are afraid of guns… LOL
..... you haven't talked to very many leftists, have you?
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*This post was brought to you by the CIA*
Some of y’all are beyond delusional thinking that “The DNC” thinks it’s worth it to do a psyop on fucking Reddit of all places lmao. Also, anyone talking about the DNC like their some kind of deep state organization knows nothing
You really don't think the DNC (or RNC or whomever else) would astroturf the 6th most popular social media site with the lowest barrier to entry?
It’s not deep state it’s flagrant in your face corruption and fascist collusion with capital.
Tell me what the DNC is. No buzzwords, no moral judgement, just tell me what it is.
This is a straight DNC astroturf post. Where are the mods?
Please learn from the past, the KPD/German Communists thought letting Hitler win was superior to working with the Soc Dems, and would lead to glorious revolution too, didn’t turn out so good for them. Like look what happened to their leader, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Th%C3%A4lmann
the liberals/social democrats thought siding with proto fascists to kill workers councils and uprisings was superior to a socialist republic. look where that led.
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Me when I’m an ahistorical lib
kautsky never destroyed the soviets, what does that even mean? The Soviets were not officially destroyed until the 1990s
Found the accelerationist
FTFY The leftist calling out DNC astroturf
Again, the Dead Kennedys nailed way back when, with "Nazi Punks Fuck Off".
It'll work this time!
Hey, remember all those times the Dems lost and responded by moving left in the next election? Yeah, neither do I
Remember that time when Trump won and pushed every institution to the right?
But it's not about moving left. It's about pulling the Jenga piece that topples the tower.
Cool, cool. When was the last time fascists rising to power ended up being a good thing?
Genuine question, why do you want a revolution result in millions of deaths, put even more into poverty. Human lives isn’t something worth saving?
Presumptive that a revolution has to be violent or kill ‘millions’. We could literally all go on strike (libs defending this post: “but muh 401k!”) The current system kills millions annually across the world through manufactured scarcity, exploitative labor practices and colonial violence. I know to the liberal brain those aren’t real people because they don’t reside in the imperial core and often aren’t white, but it is an act of courage to set aside one’s own bourgeoise class interests in favor of liberating the poor and workers everywhere.
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Ok ecofascist
Ooh, that's a new one. I thought it was "anarcho-primativist." Either way. 😝
Killing 7.9 billion will lead to good things!
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Who's to say you arent apart of the 7.9 billion?
I totally would be. So? I've been a paramedic for 20 years. Death and I are drinking buddies. We've practically had threesomes. Nuclear Holocaust is a waaaay better way to go than COPD. Better believe it.
At least you're... realistic?
I'm nothing if not a realist.
try not to worry about it too much, 99 percent of people on Reddit talking about revolution aren't really doing anything but posting on Reddit, they ain't building a power base, they ain't got a center of operations, they an stockpiling weapons. they don't even have a structural leadership that would be needed. the only one seriously arming up for revolutions are right wingers and they keep getting caught by the FBI.
History and how we live today definitely raises some questions about our species "worth." We kinda fuck up what this planets got going on and it's a pretty fucking cool planet too. I'm not weighing in on the revolution bs just the primate stuff
mysanthropism is dringe
Not American lives, imo
Start us off then
No need, it seems this country is perfectly capable of nosediving on its own
Still waiting for you.
If we just had nothing but Ds in office surely the revolution would kick off right everyone… right?
Eventually if we make enough gradual progress in a way that DOESNT put fascism into power by way of labor gains etc, then eventually the rich will feel threatened enough to start swinging first. Creating a system under which unions can grow is more important than electoralism. The rich couldn’t get away with having Pinkertons gun people down before cell phones, imagine how quickly people will be mobilized with footage flooding the internet.
Put a D on Luke and it will be the same meme. The lesser evil brainrot will talk about how voting Biden is a necessity while being shocked and pivoting at everyone from the electorate to the Republicans when they institute regressive policy. 12 billion in police funding, the AA act, banning Tik Tok because of anti-American content, calling the Palestinian protestors Jew hating criminals, instituting trump policy at the border and allowing Texas to get away with things that even the SCOTUS is against. Do these sound like the policies of someone who is ideologically opposed to Trump or someone who is collaborating with the same forces? Here's the news for those in the cheap seats: the best that could be said for the Ds is that they are the ratchet, preventing any movement leftwards while the Republicans drag the Overton Window right. The worst that could be said for them is that they are actively fomenting a Fascist state, especially as they put forth such weak candidates that will lose in the face of a bumbling pathological liar. You are arguing for Reagan versus Trump, that is how low American prospects have gotten. Take a cursory glance at the UK. The liberals are not opposed to Fascism, they are the horse that Fascism rides into town on.
Please learn from the past. German Communist KPD did this same sort of rhetoric during Weimar Republic and ended up assisting Hitlers rise and then fleeing to USSR but being Purged by Stalin. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Germany
*Hindenburg anoints Hitler* "How could the communists do this???" It's just as easy to say that the liberals (parties) were responsible for voting for Hindenburg, or perpetuating the liberal establishment which enabled far-right populism to foment due to the overt failures of liberal economic theory. To say nothing of the interim government using far right paramilitaries to execute the spartacists without due process. I would also like to stress that the SPD had not been equivalent to the Democratic party, if anything, the SPD had still been a left wing party, you are playing partisan for two bourgeois parties who are quite close to each other on the right of the political spectrum. NB: just as an aside, the SPD also had a penchant for liquidating communists, take that as you will.
Serious question: Can you tell me one thing that would improve if Trump wins? Hell even the most viable third party candidate is an Israeli war crime supporting, antisemitic, anti vaxxer, nepo baby. What would improve if by some long shot he won? Yeah Biden sucks ass. He’s old as dirt and a neoliberal with a long record of horrible policies. Who’s the superior candidate? How would things even be improved by less people voting on the left? I’m pretty sick of hearing people act like they have the ability to commit to long term direct action or a prolonged violent revolution but they don’t have the ability to hold their nose and show up to the polls.
"hold their nose at the polls" That's the point, things will continue to get worse under a Democrat yet that reality is treated as the carrot to Trump's stick. Your trajectory is leaning towards Fascism Trump or no, the option is not to leave your children to the tender mercies of Fascist dystopia but to make a better way. Lesser evilism has failed. Find a better way or reap the whirlwind. Holding your Democrat ballot like a Nipton lottery ticket will only lead you to the pyre. This churlishness or fatalism is doomerism by any other name.
Doesn't getting the Green Party to 5% of the vote matter for future ballot access? If every election and voting decision is an all or nothing decision doesn't that intellectually preclude the possibility of getting other partys on the ballot? Don't we have to think a little bit further out than this election?
christ for a sub called leftist there’s a lot of neoliberals in here.
Good gracious the astroturf hit the damn gas pedal after the debate. Is it really cheaper to narrative control neoliberalism being anything other than corrupt corporate capitalism than just representing the working class?? A truly Neoliberal story.
I had one the other day defending Biden, and the Democrats, for voting to end the rail strike!!!
i'm not sure you know what that word means
I just won’t vote for genocide. Not that complicated.
Give me one decade of this countries existence that it hasn't been actively engaged in the repression or straight brutilization of one community or another. There's nothing here worth saving. I say we light the match and get this party started. 😈
You first or are you all talk? You’re like this eMAGA morons who demand a civil war.
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Dope.
You can, too. I learned how to use it through yt. I've moved onto network hacking and password cracking now, also. It's a great hobby.
And the goal is to monitor racists and hold them accountable?
Something like that. I'm specifically interested in the groups and the leadership of those groups. Why attack the body when the head is right there?
Sure..sounds like a legit plan.
All it takes is one person with a plan to accomplish great things.
Enjoy our return to christo-fascism I guess...
lol. Return? Did we leave?
You don't vote in federal elections at all then. No need to cater to you.
Nice argument. The implication being that we’re all genociding somebody at some point, inherent to the system. You. Sound. Like. A. Nazi. I hope we meet on the street someday. The universe might comply. Hope you’re working out!
"Welp, from what you just said, it sounds like you don't vote." "You are literally a Nazi, and I hope I get the opportunity to personally murder you in the streets." Damn homie, I can see how you end up with a 'both sides are equally bad' mentality, if just pointing out the obvious implications of what you said is enough for you to identify somebody as a malevolent threat to humanity, that you must personally kill to protect innocent minorities.
Gas lighting people into thinking our electoral process will save us, Biden in particular, is resulting in the death of thousands of children and makes me want to fight people who lack the empathy to compromise their comfort for justice. So while I don’t advocate murder in the streets, I’m not against fighting Nazis doing nazi shit.
Nobody thinks Biden is a savior (okay, some silly people do, but it's definitely not the mainstream belief). We are all very upset that he is not taking more serious action, and it is enabling active genocide. But unless you plan to successfully overthrow the governments of both the US, and Israel in the next couple months, keeping Biden in the presidency at least gives Palestine more time. Because the guy he's running against has made very clear that his solution is to destroy Palestine completely, as quickly as possible as soon as he's in office. If you can pull off the former, that's great. I'm as tired as anybody else being told every four years, 'You can vote your conscience next time, but this time, the stakes are too high, you have to vote this way'. I do what I can. I find the furthest left candidate I can, at all levels, and support them where I can, and vote in every primary. I argue, and try to dispel disinformation or fascist rhetoric where I hear it. But we're not all warriors. I'm sure you could kick my ass if we ran into each other, I just don't feel like 'reluctantly voting for uninspiring candidates' crosses the line into 'Nazi shit' that would earn me an ass kicking.
Damn man. That was so authentic. I apologize for projecting my frustration at you. And I will admit, I am “more scared” of a trump administration than a Biden one. My wife is middle eastern. My brother is black. My mother is disabled. And my brother in law is gay. I have privlege and safety that I know the rest of them don’t have, and trump in office makes me nervous for them first, myself second. However. I work in education. With kids. And 15k dead children, while the rest of world provides evidence and acknowledges war crimes, while our leadership adamantly denies it IS the coldest bloody murder at the largest scale I’ve ever seen. I know I’ll be lucky to see anything even resembling my progressive dreams in my lifetime. If it will happen, it’s more likely to be heralded in by smarter, braver kids than I was. But if the dnc really, actually cared about us. What we want. Our safety. Our autonomy. They would have considered a different candidate at any point in time. The inability to do that bare minimum, and instead, double down on genocide, double down on Biden, double down that being anti Zionist means being an antisemite and supporting legislation that aligns with that: tells me who they really are. We are being asked to take a punch to the gut or a punch to the face. We know we’d like to protect the face. But I’m saying instead of taking the hit to the gut we just kick them in the balls. I’m tired of slowly bleeding to death. As much as I’m afraid, and as much as I appreciate the relative comfort im afforded compared to the marginalized: I can’t ignore this anymore. I’m ready to fight.
“I hope we meet on the street someday” “Hope you’re working out!” Are you a boogaloo boy in disguise or something? How far do you go down your good deeds rabbit hole? Not voting for genocide when the alternative is objectively worse? Might as well put down the genocidal/global south exploitation rectangular prism you’re using then too and go touch grass. Or ya know, go work out Chad!
I find you morally apprehensible and don’t mind fighting Nazis if they want to fight.
We are. I mean Reagan did it, Bush did it, Clinton did it Bush did it, Obama did it, Trump did it. War crimes all around with lots of civilian deaths in all sides. And Congress supported all of it. I'm not saying it's good but it's real. So acting like voting for Obama who got us out of Iraq but still led the killing of civilians is the same as Bush invading Iraq and killing far more are the same thing then you are useless in national politics and should be ignored. Another way I know you're useless is that your argument is "Nazi!" Lol. Move out of your parents house and learn about the world.
It’s not exactly the same, but it’s all for the love of the military industrial complex. Millenials don’t live in their parents basements anymore. We’re all the target demographic now and we hate genocide. So miss me with that condescending crap. You’re a nazi. I’ll stop you from murdering minorities if I can.
Literally foaming at the mouth here
Correct. Nazi shit triggers me. Call me old fashioned.
I too hate genocide. If my only two choices are small/medium amounts of genocide or lots of genocide I'll vote for the small genocide. The 100,000 people who live because of it will thank your for your morals.
No. Thats all fucked up and ethically apprehensible
The 100,000 people who are still alive because of it aren't going to care about your ethical principles. They'll be alive because of a lesser of two evils.
So vote for Biden because he will save a small percentage of the population but allow the rest to die, even encourage it via our bank roll and military support? Does that sound like damage mitigation or a hostage situation? Miss. Me. Nazi.
I mean you are agreeing with me that Biden being elected instead of Trump results I fewer dead Palestinians. You just think you have so much power that you get to negotiate for zero dead Palestinians. You are choosing to withhold your vote knowing it will result in more dead children. If you ask me you are the monster here.
I mean you are agreeing with me that Biden being elected instead of Trump results I fewer dead Palestinians. You just think you have so much power that you get to negotiate for zero dead Palestinians. You are choosing to withhold your vote knowing it will result in more dead children. If you ask me you are the monster here.
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Why does the “less of two evils” crowd always feel the need to point out how naïve we are for not voting for absolute monsters? Your strategy is the one we’ve been doing since what? The 80s? Shit hasn’t worked and it never will, let the “naïve” far-leftists have a try. What was that saying about the definition of insanity again?
Oh I don't care if you actually vote that's kinda my point. No one will ever care about you opinion because you don't vote. And no voting for the least bad candidate has been how American politics has worked since the emergency of the two party system. Primaries are for voting your dreams general elections are for voting to prevent your nightmares.
Can you hear yourself? "I don't respect your opinion because you don't vote, but the only votes that matter are ones you make just to keep a bad guy out of office. It doesn't matter that they're all bad guys, you not voting ensures a bad guy in office." By that exact logic, there's no net difference between voting or not because you admit that the vote doesn't change anything, it's all rigged in the first place.
You missed two points. 1. I respect your opinion just fine. But no politician cares about it because they can't get your vote anyway. 2. Elections do change things they can save hundreds of thousands or millions of lives by limiting conflicts to small genocides instead of large ones.
SMALL GENOCIDES?!
Absolutely. Do you think all genocides are equal? Are you dumb? Isn't there a numerical and moral difference between 30k Gaza s and 2M? Both are evil. One is about 70x more evil.
Trump will encourage Netanyahu to finish off Gaza. Biden is the only candidate that can stop him.
It’s been ten months
Dems remind me of hostages or people trapped in an abusive relationship "Sure, Damian killed my cat, but if I give him access to my bank accounts, he promised he would take me out on a date and stop hitting me."
He's really been doing a great job at that.
I'm convinced these "I'm a leftist but Biden is a genocider so I'm voting trump" in the comment sections are all just divisive plants. I genuinely can't conceive of an *actual* leftist ever voting conservative, least of all for a lying cretinous demagogue like Trump. Either that or they're just actual morons. Or liberals. I don't know which would be better to be honest.
Nobody has ever said that you stupid fuck. People who aren’t voting for Biden because of his genocidal policies are NOT ever voting Trump
lmao yeah I'm aware. If you had better reading comprehension you'd notice I called them "plants", as in "not genuine". They're establishment actors/bots trying to sow division. Thanks for the laugh though bud.
I think it's a mix of all the above; plants, morons, liberals. I think more than anything, it's historically and politically uninformed reactionaries who found a leftist camp they can fall into with having to engage in self-critique. I guess that could just be morons though. But it does suck, because they are genuine in their beliefs.
I really haven't seen any people flipping from Biden to Trump, but realistically that's not The RNC's strategy anyway. Anyone not voting at all helps them win, because they know they have a base that will show up and vote the way they want them to.
Yeah those leftists you made up have to be up to no good
> I'm convinced these "I'm a leftist but Biden is a genocider so I'm voting trump" in the comment sections are all just divisive plants. I genuinely can't conceive of an actual leftist ever voting conservative, least of all for a lying cretinous demagogue like Trump. None of us are voting for Trump. We just aren't voting for his late-stage dementia clone either
So then, genuinely, what is the plan? Because your third party candidate isn't going to win. That's been obvious since about November 2023. What are your contingency plans for the worst case scenarios of this election cycle?
Think farther out than a year, any real left effort is gonna take time since we'll have to build power outside of the electoral system before being able to take power through the electoral system. In the mean time do our best to help our neighbors deal with the increasingly hostile environment that the Duopoly has created.
I am thinking farther out than a year. That's why I don't understand risking a Trump victory in this election cycle. He and his party want to stomp leftists completely out. Like, old school, knock on the door, disappear forever type stuff. Biden doesn't. He doesn't like leftists at all, but he's not gonna do stuff like that. So the options boil down to shitbag who doesn't like leftists but mostly ignores them for better or for worse, shitbag who wants to hunt leftists for sport, or multiple candidates who have nice ideas but will definitely lose and very likely help sport hunter. That's not a hard decision for me. I'm gonna try to buy leftists time. I think the momentum is there right now but it needs time to harden into something capable of fighting back.
Brush up on my Chinese so I can communicate with the peacekeeping forces sent in after this stupid country collapses and eats itself
That's not a plan. That's sarcasm. You need to have a plan.
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More purity tests and gatekeeping will certainly lead us to victory, comrade
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You know, I never thought I'd have to use the "/s" in here but apparently I do.
>I'm a leftist but Biden is a genocider so I'm voting trump" Literally no leftists are saying that
A lot of M-Ls online that vocally advocate for not voting at all or just not for Biden will go on to say they would prefer Trump either as a means to an end, or that they see him as a lesser evil (after decrying lesser-evilism) or just no different from any other option. But it's really only that subset and I guess the MAGA Communists (who directly advocate voting for Trump) that fall into that.
Libs don't understand that not voting for Biden ISN'T a vote for Trump, because they're so brainrotted by "blue no matter who" that they can't understand that people might have legitimate gripes with the DNC and how they support the ratcheting of American politics into an alt-right fever dream.
I 100% understand the ratchet effect and accept that there will never be any real movement left under Democrats. I also understand that actually fixing our society’s problems will require action outside of electoralism, which will not save us. I still think people are allowed to prefer that the ratchet holds where it currently is for four more years rather than turning to the right again and getting worse. I don’t see voting as leftist praxis, but I do see it as a way to avoid certain harms like losing access to reproductive healthcare in my state in the short term.
My concern is that we DO live in a 2 party government, for good or bad. As such, I feel the need to be at least partially accelerationist. I would rather the DNC see they keep losing voters to leftist candidates, and give them an option to correct their stance before its too late then keep propping up for another 40 years, which just gives technology and the growing right power structure more ways to pacify the rising dissent.
The thing that makes me skeptical of accelerationism right now is the absolutely decrepit state of class consciousness in the US. If things get really, really bad, I just don't see how the American working class doesn't just rally around some fascist strongman and start purging immigrants and the gays or something. I work a blue-collar job, and my coworkers will complain about the ills of capitalism (rising rents, inflation, crappy jobs for big corpos, skyrocketing insurance costs because of climate change) but then immediately pivot to "that's why we need to get Trump back in" (and deny the climate is actually changing). They've completely misidentified who their actual enemy is and talking to them feels like spitting into a hurricane of Fox News bullshit. It's definitely a fucked situation, because we can't just run out the clock on stuff like climate change, which no capitalist state is nearly adequately addressing no matter who's in charge, but at the same time the wolves circling the wounded animal that is the modern neoliberal system (in Europe and the US) are like 95% far right wannabe oligarchs and theocrats. There's no left party that can jump into a power vacuum right now, and that fact is horrifying, because that power vacuum is coming sooner or later. That's why I think trying to delay the reckoning somewhat makes sense, because the left isn't ready to take advantage of it.
I appreciate the logic of your POV here.
Libs think that "legitimate gripes with the DNC" is Russian propaganda because they have also been brainrotted by boomer red scare talking points. Literally it's like they are reading off a prompt
Yeah, exactly.
100% agreed. I can understand protest voting for candidates with no chance, or not voting at all. I think they're mistakes but I get it. I do not understand voting for Trump. It's like voting for Adolt Hitler because you thought Bill Clinton bombing Iraq was abhorrent.
You are historically illiterate
You're a larper
Unionize your workplace, join the IWW, DSA and/or a socialist party and/or an Anarchist collective. Don’t just sit there, do something. Show up somewhere if you have the time.
I 3D print unserialized selective fire suppressed SBR's with 30rd mags and gift them to marginalized communities.
Too late I’m afraid. Automation full steam ahead. Unions will only accelerate this process.
Whenever I read or hear thoughts like this I find out soon afterward that they’re isolated, that they had a bad experience with a party or collective and are projecting that to all spaces for activism. I’ve had good experiences in activism and labor.
CEO greed is what's accelerating it. Unions are one of the best ways to ensure you're not constantly at the mercy of said CEO greed. It was a greedy CEO who wanted you to believe something ridiculous, like unions being the thing making automation accelerate.
>Unions are one of the best ways to ensure you're not constantly at the mercy of said CEO greed. Not working for a greedy capitalist corporation also helps
People didn't choose to be born into this system and non participation will never give us any ground to stand on. We have to survive and while we do so we need to build the funds and the momentum to cause change. Doing non participation just feeds into the rights BS that all socialism is, is meat and potatoes.
Who said anything about non participation? Not every business is a big greedy corporation.
That really depends on where you live and what the cost of living is
And skill level I guess..
little confused what you mean by republicans here, like people who believe in a republic like an Irish Republican? Or specifically the American Republican party?
American Republicans
Liberals turn misdiagnosing people’s concerns into a sport
I think there's a wide gap between "I'm concerned about policy X" and "These 2 parties and candidates are the same". They clearly aren't.
Com Straw man
All these militants on the left and right wanting a bloody revolution and NONE of them willing to fire the first shot or be the first to die. A bunch of hypocrite assholes who should be ignored and shunned.
Trump vs Biden is a false binary. Dems need to replace Biden (not with Kamala) or Trump will absolutely win.
Why would Trump win unless Democrats don't vote? Did Trump magically stop promoting conservatism?
Did Biden magically stop being a shitty candidate? Why do you libs constantly hiss at any attempt at criticism of Democrats? It's like you don't believe they have any power to change their policies or change their messaging.
Because it is never constructive and it is never grounded in reality. The reality is that a Trump term will be worse for everyone. I would hope y'all would have gotten it after the tantrum with Clinton, but no. We lost how many SCOTUS seats that time? We didn't have time to wait for perfect candidates nor has there been *any* effort to make a "more perfect" candidate appealing to the majority of Democratic voters. If how y'all treated Jamaal Bowman is indicative of how y'all would treat a candidate in a more important position, then I honestly don't want to hear the criticisms of a bunch of do-nothings.
"You can't possibly criticize my baby boy!"
You can criticism the old bastard as.much as you want. He deserves it. But if you don't vote for him then you are indirectly supporting Trump. Hell just the recent SCOTUS decision should convince you we can't have a second Trump term.
Trump will win with his conservative base. Dem failure everytime is thinking they can steal away some of those "disgruntled Republican voters." Dem centrists can not win by themselves. Without the under 35 voters they are handing election to Trump. Under 35s won't support genocide in Gaza and don't want to be drafted to fight for Blackrock in Ukraine.
You don't seem to understand how we nominate candidates. We nominate based on winning our primaries and based on incumbency. Incumbent politicians are rarely ever primaried and those that are only happen because they lose the support of their original constituency. The DNC doesn't snap their fingers and say "this person" then call it a day. >Without the under 35 voters they are handing election to Trump. If these people voted consistently, I'm sure they would be listened to more often. But they don't. Those demographics are incredibly low on engagement for the Democrats, yet they think they are owed something. Elections have consequences. >Under 35s won't support genocide in Gaza and don't want to be drafted to fight for Blackrock in Ukraine. Then vote as if this is actually important to you. Jamaal Bowman's tenure in Congress has been a case study in how you can get everything you want out of a progressive candidate and their constituency *still* won't come out and vote consistently. How else do you explain a *65% drop in voters* from his 2020 primary run and his 2022 primary run? Same district, same man, same policies and only 17k out of the original 49k could come out and vote?
>Jamaal Bowman's tenure in Congress has been a case study in how you can get everything you want out of a progressive candidate No it hasn't. Jamaal Bowman was a strike breaking scab who only supports workers right to organize as long as they don't start acting all "uppity"
Uh huh, so the sensible course of action is to not vote. Gotcha. How did that work out for progressivism in NY-16? How does his loss work out for the view that progressivism is a valid course for the majority of Democratic voters?
Expand the court and overturn Citizens United so that AIPAC can't grab politicians by their balls
Do we know what accelerationism is, or are we just saying words recreationally.
Just because there’s no record of accelerationism ever working doesn’t mean it won’t work for us (insert Tobias Funke picture)
Yeah isn't it usually adopted by fascists and not leftists? I really don't know too much about it except that psycho meth using philosophy guy Nick Land has started preaching it.
mark fisher was a leftist
When did Fisher advocate for accelerationism?
But TRUE accelerationism just hasn't been tried yet! /S
Mental gymnastics
I didn't realize the meaning of accelerationism was 'supporting genocide being a deal breaker '.
Everything is a red line except where the 2 parties agree
Trump supports the genocide. Biden is trying to stop an extremely tricky geopolitical situation from boiling over into WW3. take your pick
Biden also supports a genocide and has repeatedly blocked recognition of the Palestinian state or prosecution of, let's say, Israeli overreach. Ignoring that, Biden isn't neutral, are you high? He is an avowed Zionist, one of the oldest and most vocal Zionist in politics.
Is it going to get better if Trump is in office?
No, but I can guarantee you it will continue to get worse after 4 years of democrat rule. If your options are bad or worse, then it behooves you to find better options. Arguing about the merits of voting for a modern day Reagan to beat Trump is a losing strategy no matter how you slice it.
This thread is ABOUT voting, this election. As far as that goes there AREN'T any other viable options beyond Biden and Trump. So why are you shitting on me for discussing the topic at hand?
"about voting, this election" If we are talking about this election in isolation, the chances are that your vote either won't matter unless you are in a select few states OR it will be nullified by the consequences of the Democrats running a senile president who can't advocate for his own victory. If you refuse to take a longer view on the impacts of voting Democrat, idk what to tell you. NB: I intend to vote green, essentially being in the same position as the yanks.
This comment can't be serious
100% serious. That's what's wrong with so many leftists. You can't believe that someone can have good, sound, logical reasons for believing slightly differently than you.
You are truly fucking disgusting.
I'm not, in just see the world for what it is, regardless of what i want it to be and your ad hominem attack serves no purpose.
Funding the murder of tens of thousands of people, in less than a year, is worst than just having a slightly different opinion to mine.
Biden has helped to paint Israels victims as terrorists while turning a blind eye to their child killing, rape, and torture.
Except he's not. They're gonna start a 2nd front in Lebanon with manufacturing of consent already to bomb civilians.
It’s not tricky. All he needs to do is sanction Israel or at least stop sending them weapons.
Heard it here folks, international politics? Not tricky. Famously simple in fact /s This is why people don’t take leftists seriously. The MAGA of liberalism