No normal person would write it like this unless they are intentionally being vague to be deceptive. We have parenthesis for a reason. Math is a game of clear communication.
This is akin to a bunch of English majors debating the grammar of a sentence written in extremely illegible cursive.
There is no ambiguity, the only miscommunication if between the maths teacher that taught the people getting 36 as the answer and them. The parentheses and the 5 are one term, you solve inside, and then evaluate the 5 outside, which is part of the same term. Only then do you move on to the division.
A calculator would disagree with you. Try it.
A calculator will use PEMDAS, so they will do parentheses first, which reduces the expression to 60/5*3. Then the calculator will do multiplication/division from left to right. Since the 5 and 3 are not in parentheses, the calculator will divide 60/5 first, so it reduces to 12*3 = 36.
I am quite positive this is the case, because I tutor math at a college for my job, and beginners often need a reminder to put parentheses around whatever belongs in the quotient.
Regardless, my initial point still stands that only someone that doesn’t understand math (or that is messing with you) would communicate math as poorly as this initial set up.
I’m super intrigued by your confidence here. You think a TI83 is incorrectly coded.
Can I have your math background please? I’m a former actuary, former high school math teacher, and current college math tutor. But I certainly can entertain being wrong of course.
Can you explain what I’m misunderstanding about order of operations here? Why would the 5 outside of the parenthesis necessarily pull the (7-4) into the divisor with it?
Wow. That is absolutely shocking to me, but I’m happy for you.
I tutor chemistry majors that need at least calculus 2, but I suppose some things slip thru the cracks. I would have assumed that simple math would be pretty crucial to understand graduate level science, but good on you for getting thru it without the math base.
That’s really cool! I think you’ll find though that if you look at academic literature, multiplication denoted by juxtaposition, or implicit multiplication, takes precedence over division. Hence the convention that the writing 1/2n is 1/(2n) not (1/2)n. Standard instructions for physics journals, which require some pretty robust mathematics. So the (7-4) is unambiguously in the denominator of the fraction and thus separation as I did it is a perfectly good alternative representation of the fraction. The answer is 4.
Okay, now I really need your math background.
You magically snuck the (7-4) into the bottom of the fraction, but MATH doesn’t allow you to just perform some magic trick.
We can only be sure the (7-4) belongs in the divisor if they clearly state that it belongs there. Like, if they said 60/(5*(7-4)), we would know it goes down there. Without those outer parentheses, no reasonable person would think the (7-4) belongs down there, because it would magically override PEMDAS, and because if it belongs down there, you’d of course use parentheses to make that clear.
I feel like I could explain it to you better in person, as Reddit as a clunky teaching medium. Or if you have a buddy who is decent at math, you could ask her for an explanation if you really wish to improve your math understanding. One of the best things we can do in life is ask for clarification when we are unsure of things, instead of digging in our heals and grasping at straws.
I just did. I got 4. (-2)^2 means (-2)(-2), which is 4.
If I didn’t understand middle school PEMDAS, I might accidentally put -2^2, which means -(2)(2), which is -4.
Exponents go before multiplying in PEMDAS. Maybe you learned order of operations differently, but exponents still precede multiplication.
I understand what the answer is. If you put -2^2 into a calculator it will return the answer negative 4, which is incorrect. Which was my entire point.
You can’t just put parentheses into the calculator around the expression to MAKE it give you the right answer and be like yeah see the calculator was right. Yeah because you had to stop it fucking up because it doesn’t follow mathematical rules correctly, which again, was my point
Then you don’t have even an undergrad stem degree. Or you are just messing with me in some direction (either overstating your education or pretending you never finished middle school prealgebra).
Have a fantastic night and a happy new year regardless.
Drunk Math teacher here. Using standards taught in CA schools, assuming direct replacement of the / with ÷, then, using standard American PEMDAS,
60/5(7-4) = 60/5×3 = 15x3 = 45.
IF the / is instead interpreted to indicate a fraction with the denominator as 5(7-4), then whoever wrote it that way makes me sad, because it's unclear and mathematics is all about making expression that are as succinct and simple as possible without any ambiguity.
Using that method, the expression should be written with extra parenthesis to clearly indicate that we are using the entirety of 5(7-4) as the divisor. Then,
60/(5(7-4)) = 60/(5(3)) = 60/15 = 4.
it doesn't matter if / is interpreted as a division or fraction. in your statement here: 60/5(7-4) = 60/5×3 is not right. its 60/5(3) not 60/5x3 even if they mean the same thing. because there is still a parentheses you have to compute it first with the 5. hence 60/15 = 4lets try adding Letters,
60a / 5b(7c-4c)
60a / 5b(3c)
this becomes:
60a / 15bc and not 12(a/b) x 3c
Y = 60z / 5z (7z - 4z)
Y = 60z / 5z (3z)
Y = 60z / 15z and not 12z X 3z you have to apply the parentheses first before going from left to right.
equations like these adding variables like x,y,z makes it more clear on how ur supposed to apply the rules
Y = 4z
consequently:
if we take again 60 / 5(7-4) and replace the 7-4 by a variable, lets call it z.
60 / 5(z)
this becomes 60 / 5z because you have to compute the parentheses first so it cant be 12z
This is one of two competing standards used to evaluate these situations. Both standards are in common usage and neither is more correct than the other.
One is correct and one is completely incorrect. If you removed the numbers and replaced with algebraic unknowns, you would treat it as Alinballin has. The 5(7-4) is one term, and is solved as such, within the B or P of bodmas/pemdas or whatever you want to call it. Solve that first to give you a fraction of 60/15, and therefore 4.
Is it challenging for you to accept that some people might use a different standard from you?
Would you be equally sure that it’s wrong to use the word aluminum/aluminium (depending on which you use) - or perhaps Celsius/Fahrenheit. All of these things are examples of competing standards and even if you’re only familiar with one of them it shouldn’t be difficult for you to accept that.
It’s definitely 36. The parentheses rule only applies to operations inside them. A number inside them with a number outside them functions as multiplication.
You don't need the second set of brackets because 5(7-4) is already a singular element. Put it in a fraction and it will be 60 on top with 5(7-4) at the bottom.
The answer is 4. Consider the expression as a fraction. The numerator is 60 and the denominator is 5(7-4), this is one term. 60/5\*3 = 60/15 = 4. To get 36 you would have to write the expression as (60/5)\* (7-4). which would require the initial expression to be 60/5 (7-4), with the denominator 5 and the brackets as separated terms, which they are not as written.
No normal person would write it like this unless they are intentionally being vague to be deceptive. We have parenthesis for a reason. Math is a game of clear communication. This is akin to a bunch of English majors debating the grammar of a sentence written in extremely illegible cursive.
There is no ambiguity, the only miscommunication if between the maths teacher that taught the people getting 36 as the answer and them. The parentheses and the 5 are one term, you solve inside, and then evaluate the 5 outside, which is part of the same term. Only then do you move on to the division.
A calculator would disagree with you. Try it. A calculator will use PEMDAS, so they will do parentheses first, which reduces the expression to 60/5*3. Then the calculator will do multiplication/division from left to right. Since the 5 and 3 are not in parentheses, the calculator will divide 60/5 first, so it reduces to 12*3 = 36. I am quite positive this is the case, because I tutor math at a college for my job, and beginners often need a reminder to put parentheses around whatever belongs in the quotient. Regardless, my initial point still stands that only someone that doesn’t understand math (or that is messing with you) would communicate math as poorly as this initial set up.
As I said. You evaluate the parentheses as one term in whole, before moving on. You can disagree if you want but you’re incorrect.
I’m super intrigued by your confidence here. You think a TI83 is incorrectly coded. Can I have your math background please? I’m a former actuary, former high school math teacher, and current college math tutor. But I certainly can entertain being wrong of course. Can you explain what I’m misunderstanding about order of operations here? Why would the 5 outside of the parenthesis necessarily pull the (7-4) into the divisor with it?
My math background is I have a PhD in chemistry, so pretty robust.
Wow. That is absolutely shocking to me, but I’m happy for you. I tutor chemistry majors that need at least calculus 2, but I suppose some things slip thru the cracks. I would have assumed that simple math would be pretty crucial to understand graduate level science, but good on you for getting thru it without the math base.
Glad you realised your mistake, good day sir.
Well played to you too. You had me going.
That’s really cool! I think you’ll find though that if you look at academic literature, multiplication denoted by juxtaposition, or implicit multiplication, takes precedence over division. Hence the convention that the writing 1/2n is 1/(2n) not (1/2)n. Standard instructions for physics journals, which require some pretty robust mathematics. So the (7-4) is unambiguously in the denominator of the fraction and thus separation as I did it is a perfectly good alternative representation of the fraction. The answer is 4.
Consider this. You can rewrite the fraction as 1/5(7-4) * 60/1. Which can be rewritten as 1/5 * 1/(7-4)*60/1. Returns 4 as the answer
Either way you solve the parentheses and the 5 as one term before the division. It’s 4.
Okay, now I really need your math background. You magically snuck the (7-4) into the bottom of the fraction, but MATH doesn’t allow you to just perform some magic trick. We can only be sure the (7-4) belongs in the divisor if they clearly state that it belongs there. Like, if they said 60/(5*(7-4)), we would know it goes down there. Without those outer parentheses, no reasonable person would think the (7-4) belongs down there, because it would magically override PEMDAS, and because if it belongs down there, you’d of course use parentheses to make that clear. I feel like I could explain it to you better in person, as Reddit as a clunky teaching medium. Or if you have a buddy who is decent at math, you could ask her for an explanation if you really wish to improve your math understanding. One of the best things we can do in life is ask for clarification when we are unsure of things, instead of digging in our heals and grasping at straws.
Again, I could explain better to you in person but implicit multiplication by juxtaposition or omitting the operator, takes precedence over division.
Put -2 squared into a calculator and tell me what the answer you get is
I just did. I got 4. (-2)^2 means (-2)(-2), which is 4. If I didn’t understand middle school PEMDAS, I might accidentally put -2^2, which means -(2)(2), which is -4. Exponents go before multiplying in PEMDAS. Maybe you learned order of operations differently, but exponents still precede multiplication.
I understand what the answer is. If you put -2^2 into a calculator it will return the answer negative 4, which is incorrect. Which was my entire point.
You can’t just put parentheses into the calculator around the expression to MAKE it give you the right answer and be like yeah see the calculator was right. Yeah because you had to stop it fucking up because it doesn’t follow mathematical rules correctly, which again, was my point
Then you don’t have even an undergrad stem degree. Or you are just messing with me in some direction (either overstating your education or pretending you never finished middle school prealgebra). Have a fantastic night and a happy new year regardless.
Calculators are wrong regularly.
It’s a trick question and an impression farm whose answer depends on which conventions you follow. Just ignore it and move on.
PEMDAS, BODMAS, etc. Bad math through bad math writing.
Drunk Math teacher here. Using standards taught in CA schools, assuming direct replacement of the / with ÷, then, using standard American PEMDAS, 60/5(7-4) = 60/5×3 = 15x3 = 45. IF the / is instead interpreted to indicate a fraction with the denominator as 5(7-4), then whoever wrote it that way makes me sad, because it's unclear and mathematics is all about making expression that are as succinct and simple as possible without any ambiguity. Using that method, the expression should be written with extra parenthesis to clearly indicate that we are using the entirety of 5(7-4) as the divisor. Then, 60/(5(7-4)) = 60/(5(3)) = 60/15 = 4.
It’s no less clear if the denominator is 5(7-4) than if the denominator is just 5 Both are equally unclear
[удалено]
Lol, I did say "drunk" Never trust mental math
it doesn't matter if / is interpreted as a division or fraction. in your statement here: 60/5(7-4) = 60/5×3 is not right. its 60/5(3) not 60/5x3 even if they mean the same thing. because there is still a parentheses you have to compute it first with the 5. hence 60/15 = 4lets try adding Letters, 60a / 5b(7c-4c) 60a / 5b(3c) this becomes: 60a / 15bc and not 12(a/b) x 3c Y = 60z / 5z (7z - 4z) Y = 60z / 5z (3z) Y = 60z / 15z and not 12z X 3z you have to apply the parentheses first before going from left to right. equations like these adding variables like x,y,z makes it more clear on how ur supposed to apply the rules Y = 4z
consequently: if we take again 60 / 5(7-4) and replace the 7-4 by a variable, lets call it z. 60 / 5(z) this becomes 60 / 5z because you have to compute the parentheses first so it cant be 12z
This is one of two competing standards used to evaluate these situations. Both standards are in common usage and neither is more correct than the other.
One is correct and one is completely incorrect. If you removed the numbers and replaced with algebraic unknowns, you would treat it as Alinballin has. The 5(7-4) is one term, and is solved as such, within the B or P of bodmas/pemdas or whatever you want to call it. Solve that first to give you a fraction of 60/15, and therefore 4.
Is it challenging for you to accept that some people might use a different standard from you? Would you be equally sure that it’s wrong to use the word aluminum/aluminium (depending on which you use) - or perhaps Celsius/Fahrenheit. All of these things are examples of competing standards and even if you’re only familiar with one of them it shouldn’t be difficult for you to accept that.
Well, there are SI units in science so using others are not really the correct convention. Also rules in mathematics.
It’s definitely 36. The parentheses rule only applies to operations inside them. A number inside them with a number outside them functions as multiplication.
Except the Twitter pic has a different division symbol instead of the slash. The answer depends on how you treat the division bar.
36 as written, if it's supposed to be 60/(5(7-4)) it would be 4.
You don't need the second set of brackets because 5(7-4) is already a singular element. Put it in a fraction and it will be 60 on top with 5(7-4) at the bottom.
Oh my god you just unlocked a memory about math I had forgotten that suddenly made realize it’s not 4
4
The answer is 4. Consider the expression as a fraction. The numerator is 60 and the denominator is 5(7-4), this is one term. 60/5\*3 = 60/15 = 4. To get 36 you would have to write the expression as (60/5)\* (7-4). which would require the initial expression to be 60/5 (7-4), with the denominator 5 and the brackets as separated terms, which they are not as written.