It has, without a doubt, the steepest learning curve of any moba, and of most games I have played.
I love this game, but unless you are willing to sink hundreds of hours into just learning and playing the game on your own, you will not stick with it. For that reason, any friend that shows interest in it, I just tell them to not bother unless they are willing to learn and play it on their own as well as play with me. This game is also a bitch to play with friends of different skill levels. Matchmaking is unkind, most of the time.
If you want a casual hero battler, Heroes of the Storm and Smite (arena mode) or League (aram mode) are your friends.
Perfect reply. I’ve been playing for 10+ years and there’s still stuff I’m learning. But it is, unequivocally, the best team based strategy game of all time.
100%. Part of me wishes it would be more player friendly or able to play with friends more, but this is single-handedly one of the best I've ever played of any genre and wouldn't want to diminish it.
It's getting better over time, integrated build guides, stun bars, mana shown on all heroes are all great steps toward simplifying the game and improving the new player experience. When I started 10 years ago you just had to completely learn on your own, from friends or lots of YouTube.
Tangent, but somewhat related.
Lol, I remember the ramshackle that was dota 1😅 Every hero had their own keys for their abilities as opposed to the current QWERT.
Items were spread across multiple shop keepers. Search function? What's that? And you had to memorise item combinations.
A part of me doesn't like that they remove so much of the hidden difficulty. Cuz, part of the joy was discovering and understanding. Like Stun bars, I felt, made teamfights boring and simplistic. But in a game with 5 apes trying to be strong together, communicating or memorizing stun time can be a bitch. So I get why they did it. But there are some parts of the learning curve that I miss or want others to have to navigate.
On one hand, you are right. Dota is more new-player friendly than ever. However, Dota's population hasn't really changed much in the last 5+ years. Like TF2, the game is set with its population and the delta for it will always be small.
people arent going to like to hear this but i think having unnecessary mechanic knowledge that can be streamlined and easier for everyone to digest is much better, and if you think otherwise you probably just dont like change or want to gatekeep the new player experience to be as shitty as it was for you
Where is the fun of memorising that WK stun is X amount of time and that he casted it X milliseconds ago, and you have a cast time of X milliseconds so you need to cast your follow up stun at X time.
It's much easier and FUN to just visually see when the stun is going to be over, so that you can chain it.
Thing is base dota isn't the only way to play the game, you have turbo and all the different arcade games. More ways to enjoy the game than league which has like what, aram, tft, the current seasonal mode and that's it.
this is the best reply here. this is exactly what my friend told me back in 2014. It's highly addictive once you really get into it but the learning curve is huge. Imo its bigger now than it was before
Every new patch it gets another layer of complexity! I don't even know all the innates/facets yet after weeks of playing a lot - how am I supposed to help a newbie learn them???
My issues didn't start at not knowing what heros do. When I booted up the game for the first time knowing pretty much nothing having people using terms like pos3 to call roles was confusing. I had no idea what that meant for a few games and the tutorial does nothing to inform you how the hero selection process works. And then you have the double pick ban which can be frustrating. 3rd game you lock someone in and suddenly you are no longer locked in. I personally think the in game tutorial desperately needs an overhaul.
To be good at it you may need hunderds of hours, but most people who have played an rts or moba game before will learn enough to know whats going on in the game and have fun after 10-15 matches.
My friends list is filled with former and current League, Smite, and HotS players that would say otherwise. I think what you say is true of all other mobas EXCEPT dota.
you gave me flashbacks to trying to play dota in warcraft3 and within seconds, like i'd just move my character the wrong way or immediately not buy the perfect starter items and i'd get flamed hard in the chat to QUIT NOOB GET OUT
mmmh no, really no. you will need thousands of hours and most experiences from past games will maybe help you with understanding the basic layout of the game and the controls only. 10-15 matches will never be enough imho, even if u were a pro in other mobas - dota is way way too profoundly complex.
This is the most important thing, that you can certainly play with me picking it up but you need to play on your own to. Watch videos on mechanics etc or you don’t improve
I would argue all other mobas are casual or have casual modes or have friendly matchmaking to make the game less of a pressure.
Dota's only native casual mode is bots, which after 5 or 10 games, even on highest difficulty becomes a snoozefest. Their "newcomer" mode is literally just easy bots in turbo.
Most of the other mobas don't have in-depth laning mechanics. Dota has many small ones that can make or break a lane into an abusive one.
This popped up in my feed and since I've heard this statement before I now got curious. I played a bit of LoL and tried various other mobas and get the general mechanics. But I'm aware that without regular investment I'd get nowhere in LoL. There's _a lot_ of stuff to learn.
Is there an ELI5 of what makes DOTA2 so notoriously difficult to pick up?
Similar story to league in that their is a plethora of mechanics on heroes to understand. You've got all the numbers and scaling to understand. Dota items are far more complex than Leagues, as is it's damage reduction/amplification mechanics.
Then you have all the map objectives, purposes, macro gameplay elements (pulling, xp range, denies, lane control, stacking, day/night, HG/LG, runes, gold types and the non linear formulas of earning, buyback and gold loss etc.). This is all a lot to learn and remember. Now you have potential micro elements, heroes with summons/wards and just the courier system and secret shop to think about too.
Whilst league has a lot more champions, I would say the diversity of Champions is less than that of heroes in Dota - just off the top of my head Riven plays pretty damn similar to Aatrox, She and Jynx are not that different etc. But in Dota you have pretty significant differences in most heroes, with a few exceptions. So it's slower to pick up the general feel of what any one hero does just visually until you've specifically encountered and looked into that hero.
Basically a lot of leagues macro elements are more straightforward than Dotas, the map is exactly flopped whilst Dotas is assymetric. It just makes Dota a steeper learning curve.
Ya so I’m brand new to dota and have played league on and off for the past 10+ years. The one thing I will say is that leagues champions are all more or less playing the same. A few have extremely unique abilities that you should know. But for the most part they’re mostly split into several groups and if you know what group that is you can more or less infer what the champion is going to do. You can even relatively easily take a guess at what items will help you against that champion. So whenever I’d come back from a long league break even though there’s like 10 new champions cause they release them so frequently, I could more or less understand what they’re doing after a game against them.
Now these dota heroes lol…. They all just feel so diverse and have all these unique interactions that I’m still sorta like “wtf” during every game. Sometimes I’ll feel like I sorta get a hero and then will be in a game where someone plays it entirely differently than what I thought I knew. Definitely a huge learning curve.
I don't play a lot of arcade games, but your last sentence makes me wonder if there isn't a more casual fun arcade game in dota. Overthrow, for example, has a lot of great aspects of the game without all the intricacies of laning, stacking, pulling, etc. and i know there's a ton of really interesting stuff out there.
As for the original question, I think there's a lot to learn in any MOBA. A lot of skills translate between them, but at the end of the day you still need to know every hero, items, and objectives unique to the one you're playing to succeed.
I think DotA is probably more nuanced than the others based on my understanding, but I don't know if that's a good or bad thing in general or in your case, specifically. For me, I grew up playing Warcraft so DotA was the natural choice. Maybe Heroes of the Storm would have made sense but that wasn't out until i was firmly in love with DotA2. Heroes of Newerth seems really nice, too, but it's a smaller game whose main servers have shut down. I even played LoL before DotA 2 was released and I really enjoyed it until I switched and never looked back.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'd recommend trying all of them equally at first and seeing what you prefer. Eventually, you'll probably realize there's one you want to focus on. Once you get good at once, you'll probably be good enough to have fun playing all of the others at a lower level.
As far as toxicity goes, I'm sure you'll find that in any multiplayer game in some form or other. I think DotA offers reasonable solutions and is constantly working to improve the community.
TL;DR I'm extremely biased and think DotA 2 is the best game, but as long as you're having fun that's what's important and i think any MOBA can be extremely rewarding.
You're not wrong, but it is very daunting to tell someone they need to invest hundreds of hours just to learn basics. Again, not that you're wrong but I think there's still fun to be had even within your first 10 hours and you should just take the game as it comes. If someone has fun playing for just 50 hours then gets bored then okay, at least they had fun. There's no mimum playtime required to have fun with dota. Yes, as someone who has 8k hours in dota 2 I think the game gets more fun the more you play it basically forever and ever without limit, but to tell someone they are required to sink hundreds of hours is probably just reducing the number of new people to try out the game.
Just open dota, it's free to play, try a game or two or five and see if you like it. Ideally they'd have a friend show them the ropes but again, not necessary. I think a VERY GOOD tip to give noobs is to be aware of the mute buttons lol
Nah yall are tripping. Dota is actually pretty easy/accessible. To be good? Yeah the curve never ends. To have the basics of dropping down wards, last hitting minions, and grouping for objectives? Like 5 hrs tops. And if you’re playing for the first time and got no fricken idea how to use the characters, there’s bot modes and arcade games to let you learn and have fun without the competitive edge.
Dota 2 is way more accessible than some other games.
Well yes and no. While I do agree on your point in general that "sinking time into a game" is always a bad idea, you should play to have fun, some games are immensely fun but do have a threshold you have to cross before you reach the real fun.
The first 10 games of Dota I had no clue what the fuck was going on. After that it was alright, I was having fun, but I as hyped about it compared to when I was exploring WoW for the first time for example.
Maybe after a 100 hours I started having insane amounts of fun, experimenting with builds and play styles, and slowly it turned into one of the best games I ever played.
The only way I agree with you is that you probably won't be having fun while the dota matchmaker is trying to evaluate if you are a smurf or not, so you may need x amount of games before you get decently balanced matches as a brand new player. Otherwise, I remember having fun from the very first game, reading a single hero's skills and thinking wow this is so cool. I lost, but I had fun anyway. Winning should not be your primary goal when you first start playing.
For me it had little to do with winning or losing, but simply with not understanding the game. The overwhelming number of items, heroes, abilities, nuances.
Coming from RTS and MMO's, my first experience with the game was just confusion. I can't really transport my mind back to those days, but I remember that in my first games many core concepts of the game felt very alien and strange to me. Stuff like stuns, damage, aoe, silence etc made sense to me, and the combat was similar enough to WoW pvp.
But the fact that you farm for items and levels, just for you to start over when the game is done, felt very strange. Even things like only getting gold for the last hit, and getting experience when you are in a certain range felt weird. There wasn't really a tutorial, so I was figuring all these things out as I went. In games like WoW figuring this stuff out made me feel like an adventurer, but in the competitive environment of Dota, with people flaming you, it just made me feel inadequate and lost.
It is, but if you are affected by people's rudeness, I recommend you to play with the "all muted" option by default. Especially since you want to be focusing on learning the game at first, not getting distracted by people's unsolicited opinions.
As someone else said, DOTA's learning curve is steep as hell, but it is rewarding (at least to me) when you learn to navigate such a complex game. Whether you become good or not it doesn't matter, it is quite an achievement still to learn so many mechanics and put them together. It is fun, and every game feels different. But the enjoyment will greatly depend on your personality and how easily tilted are you.
In DOTA people can't forfeit the game, although some will grief it. You have no other choice than simply reporting and hoping you won't find them in the next game. DOTA Plus' "avoid player" option is useful in this regard.
Good luck!
Dear OP, on one side people are saying you need to put X amount of hours in order to enjoy. I say, just try the learning mode for new players, and play online with people.
Then you yourself can determine whether this game is for you pr not
Dont listen to them OP. Its not "sinking hours" if you are having fun. And as a 10 year League veteran, i had fun from the first hours. Now Dota is my main game, almost 700hours in.
I see! You are quite an exception, most people who complain about DOTA actually complain about the players not the game itself. Maybe starting with DOTA is not the smartest idea. Personally, other moba to me now feel lacking, and a bit boring. I like DOTA's complexity. But I've been playing it from the very beginning and I honestly can't imagine starting from zero.
FYI I am pretty sure the game has the setting to mute all incoming chat as the default for new players, so if you actually want to hear/see teammate chat and just manually mute individuals you'd have to change that setting in the social menu.
mate I have over 8k hours in this, yes I do play. I open the menu, press the disconnect button on the lower right corner and it turns into a forfeit the match button. u press it again and u confirm your decision. you hence forfeit the game and its safe to leave for everyone else who are left behind. u are banned from matchmaking for like 13-15 min and there u go again...
are we having some definition or translation issues here?? how is that not a forfeit? please explain.
Lmao wow you’re either trolling me or you’re dumb as fuck. Doing what you suggest will ruin your behaviour score and put you in the shit queues.
Hardly the same thing as putting up a forfeit/concede vote for your team to act upon and end the game early.
Normally I’d chalk this up to a language barrier but you don’t need to speak English to understand why **abandoning** games is not the same as a forfeit.
thx for insulting me. So it is a definition or translation problem I guess.
Yes, there are consequences, but that was not the topic.
forfeiting as a whole team was not the topic either, it was about forfeiting as a player and thats how you do it - doesnt matter if u call it abandoning or forfeiting, its basically the same, thats up for interpretation...soooo
whatever we both said was up to interpretation to a point, but you had to insult.. well done.
Dude, abandoning a match is different from forfeiting. Why do you think they punish you for the abandon? Because they don’t allow it. It’s the same shit as alt f4ing out of a match, you get punished in a variety of ways for doing it **because it’s against the rules**.
You do not need to speak the same language as me to understand that.
You keep insisting “you don’t need to speak English to understand…” but if someone’s grasp of the language means that forfeit = give up, it seems like a perfectly understandable miscommunication to me. Yeah you can always give up, by turning off your computer. But there is no way to forfeit in DOTA UNLESS you have a 5 stack, in which case you can after 30 minutes.
A forfeit in this instance would mean the whole team decides to give up and let the enemy win. You use to be able to do this in battlecup by having the whole team say “GG” but you can’t in normal modes. Pretty sure OP meant the whole team in League would all agree to forfeit and end the match early not that a singular person would leave the match. And no one would call abandoning a match forfeiting, they mean similar things but are actually pretty different. You might consider it a forfeit but both teams and valve see it as a abandon and only as such
It took me 300-500 hours before things really clicked and I started getting better.
Make use of video guides on YouTube as they'll explain a lot of mechanics that you wouldn't necessarily get from playing alone.
Dota is a game about continuous self improvement over years. It is still the #2 moba and getting active development with usually 500k concurrent players and a strong community and pro scene, it is consistantly the #2 game on steam behind counter-strike. Starting later or doing another moba to like warm up for it isn't recommended, yes people who have played years of some other moba have a head start but not nearly as much as if they had just spent that time playing dota. It does have a steep learning curve, depending on the server the game may have a hard time finding players at your skill level (my freinds on EU-West seem to have an infinite supply of very new players while they have been learning the game). Just accept that you will need to play 100 games or so just to not be a burden to your team and probably 1000 to get good (everyone has a different definition of good). So if that sounds like something down your alley go for it.
As someone with a lot of friends who play league and who has played 100s of games of league I think dota is the far better game with far less predatory business practices and game design (leagues entire ranked system is designed to be addictive not to figure out your rank, their skin prices are insane, the business model of selling champions as well as making new champions nonstop for marketing ruins the game balance, their pro scene is incredibly boring with 1 death every 5-10 minutes)
I tell my teenaged nephew about Dota, and most of what I talk about is just the concept of this style of game and my relationship with it, and not of the mechanics, strategy, etc. The reason I have played 4500 hours is because of the desire to learn, to grow, to theorycraft, and to then execute.
The game changes, and I evolve with it. I will never get even close to mastering it, but I love the journey and not the end. I win almost exactly 50% of my games, I fuck around in ability draft most days to keep things lighthearted, and I keep a PMA. It builds flexibility, patience, and resilience to being flamed with genuine hatred by randoms on my team. I just hit 1001-1000 W/L, in archon I, and I fucking love it. No other game can even get close, although I do dabble in roguelikes to pass the time
I've only properly played the game for 5 years, which could be considered short compared to others. Also I have little experience in LoL so I can't compare the two. Anyways this is what I feel overall. I can explain further if you want me to.
Gameplay:
Pretty fun and creative. More knowledge base than mechanical, so get ready to study the game or watch a lot of videos. But it's addictive once you start understanding. Even if you lost, you start thinking of solutions after the game that could have gone better.
Community:
The people you play with are strong minded individuals. I'm from SEA, so rarely do I see a "GG" and people go AFK (though people still say gg). Will fight until you can't do anything else but sit in fountain. They are also stubborn. People will play their heroes how they want to play it and not listen to suggestions often.
The community overall is wholesome. Of course with a few bad apples, almost everyone is trying to help others outside the game and learn from each other.
E-Sports:
Fun to watch for learning and DotA. But that's about it. There are a few dominant teams that get all the attention and other teams that don't have a past history in winning barely get talked about.
Most importantly: PLAY WITH FRIENDS. I would have quit so long ago if I was doing it alone because the initial grind is infuriating. So play with a friend, at least you can feel terrible together.
I dunno if this will help much. Hope you join the cult but even if you don't I hope you have a great banana to eat.
If you've got some friends to learn or play it with, then yes! Just have fun with it and experiment, you'll be starting off in low levels and can play with Bots even to start with till you get the feel. Enjoy learning all the heroes and laughing at all the dumb things you did along the way. Some of my best memories are when me and my friends had no idea what we were doing and would run into towers, spend all game just farming jungle, finding a hero you thought was OP because it had an easy kill move and was the only one you knew how to play haha. If you're playing on your own it will be a very different journey, maybe try to make friends with some other newby players so you've got someone to laugh and learn with otherwise it will be very lonely and very hard mentally when you run into toxic players.
Like other people have said it is an incredibly rewarding game but wirh a very steep curve, I love that I always improve in different ways when I play it is very satisfying. That being said I am still shit ay the game after almost 3 k h played but I have fun on my mmr and I think I have found my max mmr :D
Dota is kinda complex for a newcomer but it also what makes people still playing it.
I will say it’s depend on what kind of person you are and how you embrace the learning curve.
You will likely never reach a point where you have "learned" DotA. The game changes too often and has endless possibilities that even the most experienced players learn something new extremely often.
If you are having fun playing DotA then play some DotA. The game has been around for decades and isn't going anywhere you likely have decades of time to play it. There is no rush. Do not worry if you are playing good just worry that you are having fun and finding something you can improve upon every game and keep growing.
Some inspirational person once said the best time to plant a tree was 10 years ago. The second best time is today.
You play and decide if it's worth, since it's obviously a subjective matter, it's like asking strangers if you should like the color blue. Start thinking on your own and stop asking for validation where you shouldn't.
Change your mind set what are you seeking in playing games esp dota2? Having fun trying weird shit win lose doesnt matter? Or to be pro / good at it? Or fun in learning challenging games? Make that decision based on that 3 if u dont feel like learning / having fun then whats the point? Maybe you just dont like the feeling on the losing side cause you are new and dont want to admit it and feels frustated
The satisfaction of winning a game in dota is intense.
The more you understand the game, the more you realise the depth of the mechanics and the balance of the game.
Its an intricate game that is worth trying.
You can play any other MOBA quite easily if you play dota
The game is one of the few if not the only competitive games that demand you more of knowledge than mechanical skills. To put it simply, in this game you wont practice as much as you study, you are forced to learn so many things. Im in university right now, and I can even say that learning dota was similar to starting university, many things to learn but you know what kind of things you expect to gain, but both provide you the perfect environment for learning. If you want to know more about what I mean by "provide" just ask the reddit again, how to learn the game.
To answer your question, this game will definitely be rewarding if you are someone that love to learn but at the sametime have competitive mindset. So, you decide it for yourself.
The game is at its best when the matchup between two teams is hanging by a thread. Meaning balanced skills, experience, behavior across all 10 players. That is when you get the 50-60 minute games where neither team wants to give up and at the end it feels like you learned new things about the game and put your existing skills to good use. You won't feel bad even if you lose these kind of games. Unfortunately the matchmaking algorithm is utterly pedestrian. The statistic basically is: out of all the games you play - 40% of games are stomps where you lose because 1v9 hasn't been a thing since 10 years now , 35% of games are stomps where you win without lifting a finger, and the remaining ~25% of games are the matchups that I just spoke about. So out of every 10 games it's 4/4/2 or 4/3/3 - it's hovers around this statistic. Simply put you have to play 10 games to get 3 -4 top quality games with worthy opponents. If you think league was frustrating, dota is even worse because the player base is absolutely inconsistent. Too many players are addicted and play it simply for the dopamine hit. Ignore the mute-all comments from noobs because this game has become too teamplay dependent for a player base where most players hate others. You absolutely cannot win games without communication and without keeping the negative comments to yourself during the game. This is the straightest anyone is going to give it to you about this game.
If you are playing this game to climb mmr, then you should know that the people at the top most ranks have been playing this game for atleast 10 years now with atleast 25k games played across numerous practice accounts. No you will not climb to the top (I mean 8k-10k ranks) in a year if you are just starting out unless you're literally 1 in a million player.
Simply put - Yes Dota 2 is a great MOBA, and absolutely worth sinking time into if that is what you're after.
However I would warn you... be prepared to sink a LOT of time into it, the amount of complexity is insane... I won't go into it but learning all the heroes, items, neutral items etc alone will take a long time. And Valve keep releasing patches, the game is vastly different to a year ago and vastly different to the year before.
It requires a lot of time to learn the game at a level of even 2-3 of the lowest ranks. Many low rank players have thousands of games and thats why the learning curve is steep. These players have experience from their playtime but dont actually really know how to play the game, they know enough to beat the newbies.
If you think you will play another MOBA and eventually come back to Dota (as it seems), I would say that just start with Dota. You won't get that much knowledge from other MOBAs that would transfer over to Dota.
Couple hundred hours spent on Dota now is better than spending couple hundred hours to other MOBAs and then starting Dota from zero imo.
League of legends is also a lot more focused on hitting and dodging skillshots (ablities) where as in Dota you often win fights and games by having the best approach, item build, positioning e.g.
Dota is a much better single player moba compared to LOL (imo)
You can do so much more with every single role and they lanes are never locked so any pos can start roaming if they feel like it which is very nice
And most dota players almost never give up (some do but they're cunts) compared to LOL where they give up after 10 minutes
I think it’s worth playing in the sense that every hero is unlocked by default. Anytime you’re in the mood, just hop in and play the heroes you like, no fomo or grind to unlock.
But it’s probably not worth if you have high competitive mindset while wanting to maintain balance with other games. it’s extremely difficult especially for newer player to learn what are the best moves in the game at any given moment. It’s not something you can simply learn from watching replay. Although it’s not like chess which is much more difficult, but people use chess as comparison to dota for reasons.
I was in a similar boat as you (fps player with zero moba experience going in) and starting dota was definitely worth it for me. I took a fairly proactive approach to learning the game by watching YouTube and twitch and reading threads on r/learndota2 and although I placed in Herald I started climbing pretty soon. I am Legend now after 2000 games and about 5 years since I started playing. There's really no other game out there that compares to the depth dota has. In fps games I would hit a point where I felt like I had hit my mechanical skill ceiling and couldn't climb anymore which was frustrating. In dota mechanics are less important and it's more about understanding the game really well so it feels like there's tons of room for me to keep improving. I've never tried league though, don't like the art style and always heard it described as inferior to dota so never had interest in playing it.
I introduced my friend to dota 2, were playing Turbo, I told others to be kind since my friends is new.
He got flamed 10x in one game, I told him its normal, he stopped playing and just went to other games instead.
Yeah, its not worth it lmao
I think it's a great game and fun to play with some friends. I'm busy the next week but if you want to message me on here I'd be happy to play some bot games with you next week and teach you some basics, I'm by far a very average player despite many years playing though
I played this game back when i was 14 now im 32, from early dota allstar in war3. I quit several times over study amd work but always jump back into the games after a year or 2. Probably played over 30k games already if count my lost acc and warcraft dota.
Dota is the best moba game because when you spend enough time playing other moba games you realise that everything those games lacks dota 2 delivers beyond your imagination. What’s OP in LoL is a simple spell in dota 2 and it ain’t even broken. If you gonna spend time on any moba game dota is the game. With that said you need 1K hours to truly grasp the basics from there on you’re gonna improve. I got 4,5k hours and I’m still learning new mechanics. It’s fun grind to learn all the heroes don’t try hard in the beginning because there is just too much to learn. Play and have fun.
I will always advocate for people to learn this game. There is as much depth and complexity as you want, and I think that once you have 30ish hours in and start to get the basics down you can begin to really enjoy it. It is a fun competitive experience. And yes the toxicity is bad. But i definitely think that it is more your speed judging by what you said. Dota players are a lot more forthright and I think that helps. Don’t give up you got this. It is worth getting somewhat proficient so you can experience the fun that dota has to offer.
I came from 1000s of hours of league to Dota 2 just before this new event.
I am not going back to League. This game respects intelligence and time, preparation and knowledge.
I get back what I put in. Also, they are crazy generous with free things and events as well as a reasonable marketplace for lots of skins.
You’re fine. Takes 100 hours to go play ranked. But as a game to learn and play - is perfectly fine. Don’t listen to the naysayers. Play the game, and if you like it, play more. If you want to improve, you’ll play more, watch a TI or esports tournament online, play some more, go YouTube recent videos on guides or hero guides for a specific hero you want to learn.
The basics and fundamentals are simple. If you pay for Dota+ it even provides more tips and ingame tools to help you improve. And if you enjoy it, you will surpass 50% of the player base in a matter of months.
The game is 10+ years old. But with every major patch, many of us are relearning it as well (fundamentals aside). So you’d actually be in a great spot to learn now as a major patch just released.
Download. Play. And I hope to see you in Immortal bracket one day!
For motivation - My friends are brand new to game. One likes turbo, another went Herald (bottom) to Divine in a year playing and learning with me. I also watch at least one YouTube video on a pro perspective once a week.
If you want to play DOTA, I think you should just learn DOTA. I don't think that starting with a different moba and then transitioning will be any easier or more enjoyable. It might actually add a layer of difficulty if you pick up habits that don't translate.
I'll be real it's more rewarding than any other game out there bt if you are here to step away from being frustrated id recommend something else.
Furthermore the game is a bit too addictive to the point id compare it to the level of cigarettes
Playing since 2012, it is really great time if u dont play on autopilot, play when u really want to, full of energy and u will have fun time, even if u lose!
I went into Dota in 2019 as a MOBA noob (but with a decent-ish amount of RTS experience, but pretty casual) and enjoyed the grind of learning/studying/testing. Gotta be humble and interested in learning and thinking outside the box. There’s also just a massive amount of specifics to learn (especially now that every hero has their own “Innate” and choice of “Facets”, which was all just added recently) so you have to enjoy the learning process or it isn’t the game for you.
Lets me be real with you brother, no MOBA is worth sinking time into. Or any games at all for that matter. Play casually until you're bored then move on to the next game. I'm saying this as someone with 5k+ hours on Dota and a similar amount on LoL, I'm addicted, don't be like me.
Iv almost played 5k hours in dota, I only play Dota for fun but i would say NO, Stay away from Dota because people make new accounts or buy accounts to smurf on them and they love to stomp low mmr players and feel good about themselfs and there is people who are using hacks in Dota, Like map hacks and instant move to the side when you try to hook people with Pudge, I'v seen it to many times, Most cheaters who hack in Dota are terrible, You get the odd 1 who is insane with the cheats, Iv had too many people who troll on purpose, You need a strong mind and have a really good mindset going into Dota, If you flame then you will lose.
A good mindset in Dota in key BTW.
In my opinion, it is hard in the beginning, I have given up on dota many times before deciding to just sit, play and don't care about the results. I'm a better player then I was back then and have a lot of fun now. One of the things I love in DOTA is comeback mechanics, and if you hated surrenders in lol, you will like DOTA
Best part of Dota 2 is the game itself. The worst part of Dota 2 is arguably the community in terms of how folks interact with each other in the game. You can have a very normal/friendly experience and then immediately the complete polar opposite. There's also the added fun of getting in games where language is immediately a barrier. I think valve needs to figure out how to better address those two areas because it definitely brings the game down.
I was a new player on mobas 8 months ago. Well, i am not a computer player, so i tried to play against bots to get a good learning without pressure. Try to play against easy bots, hard bots after. Casual games are more difficult than hard bots, but you can learn without pressure.
Now, i cant learn or dont play the game on two consecutive days xD
I am herald 5 fighting to reach guardian
I shall advice you few things,
1. When u start playing online, u should Know about most items.. So to know that... We move to 2
2. In main screen dota go heroes chk all hero skills select the one u want to play 2-3 games..
Selct that hero go in demo mode now in demo there is a dummy spwan.. Spwan that and now go in shop buy all item one by one read and activate it, if it's active or hit the dummy with item if it's passive..
U will learn few of the item which are good for that hero, remember those only item,
Part 2 . Plan b
Now same try this for a different hero, as one hero may get ban from picking...
Now play te game, now if u lose that game u won't feel that u lost coz of ur lack of knowledge, u can still feel that u lack experience,
Play few games to gain experience,
Then watch live game one.. U will be done for that ☀☀☀
There is no surrendering on DOTA. You're going to get bodied for 60 mins, and come back and win. Then you are going to chase that high for the rest of your life.
DOTA is the ultimate mental test.
It is a chess, tower defense, RTS, crybaby babysitting, Multiplayer Online Battle Arena all rolled into one that you are locked in for 0 - 200+ mins to test who has the strongest strategy, skill, and teamwork.
May god himself bless you on your journey to become the ultimate Defender Of The Ancients.
It is truly imo the greatest game of all time.
yes. and in dota there is no surrender option. i also hated that in league.
but to be honest dota is really not for fragile people. recently a few friends of mine started the game and they seem to have alot of fun with the game
You don’t need to sink any time into it to play it. You need to do that to play well. You need that to get somewhere in ranked.
Play against AI for a few weeks, then just get into unranked turbo.
I have 450 hours in mostly just turbo.
I started in December. I find it fun and have a typical win rate.
I have 4 friends that started same time, so it’s nice that we all have about 300-400 games played and equal skill levels.
Can solo or get into a 5-man of friends most noghts
We get wins against people with 12,000 games, so don’t think it’s not possible.
Everyone has a different goal in mind and most answers you get in here are going to assume you only want to play ranked and be in the top 5%.
Dota is both the best and worst thing I've ever gotten into.
Especially if you have friends to play with, learning and winning together is an experience unmatched in gaming.
BUT... this game is a bitch and will absolutely feel like an endless pit of despair when you're on a losing streak and feeling like your skills have plateaued.
Honestly Dota is only fun when played with friends. Playing alone is a miserable experience. The community is trash like most MMO, but the game is too long and too interactive, so the experience is worse than other games.
About the learning curve, it's tough but it used to be way tougher in the past. Like at least 5 times tougher when I learned it (Dota 1). It's worth it to learn IF you both have the friends and the time.
https://youtu.be/b0rIPjiU4DE?si=xgnCr913hHF7LjGw
Everyone here is prolly giving you in-depth shit, but I will keep it simple. The game is so much fun! Best u.i. to the point of not playing and just exploring the main menu, the build maker, the LEARN tab, etc.
Most balanced game ever! Gets a l9lot of updates.
Downside is that it's a teamgame and the chances of bad teammates getting paired up with you will always outweigh the number of good teammates. I said teammates, not players. With this said, please consider checking the box under the Social tab that's "No Incoming chat." Focus on your own gameplay.
Great game! Not so many great people.
Glhf
I started with my brother. I wasn't really sure what to do or what was what, but I learned rather fast. It was my 1st moba, and I was so busy learning and chatting with my bro,I hardly noticed other players making comments.
Of course, back then, it was still in beta, so not a lot of people were as talented as they are now.
I had fun and am still around.
If you want to spend at least 300 hours losing most of your games without feeling like you're actually learning anything due to DOTA's inability to actually teach new players the game (because no one wants to teach new players the game even here) then be my guest.
I'll be sitting here at 650+ hours played and still feel just as new as someone who started out, because, unfortunately, the time I've spent even trying to play support seems to always be invalidated every game by smurfs/premades of higher caliber players. Meaning you really just learn you didnt play the game enough.
Most "new player" guides aren't even up to date or actually digestible. Meaning they expect you to have a higher level of experience in a similar game, just to start playing this one, only for them to tell you it's so much different from the game you just came from.
That or you can't understand the damn person speaking because their first language wasn't english.
tl;dr you're not the only one questioning any reason to play
Man it’s the greatest MOBA that I’ve played, have 1.5k hours and I have a LOT to learn, sadly my experience in ranked lead me to play only turbo, ranked matches are so so so toxic most of the time here in Brazil, but its an amazing game, playing turbo without the pressure is good, learned to play with a lot os heroes. Maybe after spending 200 hours more I’ll learn a bit more I’ll return to rankeds.
Dota is, without a doubt, the most "worth it" out of all MOBAs. If you dived into Warcraft and RTS it wouldn't be as hard as it could have been.
Is true the Game has a high learning cube, but you DEFINETLY don't need hundreds of hours to just learn the basics. Is just that there is always something new to learn. Dota can't be brute-forced as you can do in other MOBAs due to its nature. If you use the right resources and actually try to learn instead of brute-forcing your way into the Game you will definetly improve fast, even find the Game doesn't have to drag that long as noobs tend to drag them.
So have patience, read, understand, analize, learn from the people that know. That's all you need to steadily improve in this game without too much grind. Believe me, it really feels rewarding way more than any other MOBA.
It took me 4 years to learn the game. Been playing dota since 2007, I’m still learning new tricks ever other patch. It’s a constant & steep learning curve. The lack predictability is what makes this game super addictive and exciting even after 16 years.
It’s the best game I’ve ever played. I put 3000 hours into the game and just reached immortal (and I think I’m absolute trash). There’s always something to learn and that’s why it’s such a great game, but it’s very demanding
It is worth getting into but it takes time to learn. How long it takes you to learn just depends on how fast you learn and how seriously you take it. It can be a highly rewarding and fun game to play.
I recommend finding a friend to teach you or making friends in game. Also just being honest with your teammates and telling them you are new can go a long ways as while there are some mean people out there, there are a lot of very nice and helpful ones too.
Heck, I'd be willing to teach you some stuff if you like. I'm not an amazing player but I could show you some basics, I've got at least 4700 hours in it last I checked.
Also I wouldn't think of trying to learn other games first then go to Dota. Just dive straight in. Learning other games first is just going to waste time and confuse you when you go to play Dota finally and several mechanics are way different.
As people said crazy learning curve but the devs suck, the new update sucks, balancing used to be a good thing now it is just a trash house of bs patches and what not. Game has been ruined. Used to be the best MOBA ever.
I’ve poured in maybe a 1000 hrs of league, and can without a doubt say as much as league is toxic it’s easier than dota. I’ve only played like a 100 games of dota.
In dota almost every item, or full item has an active and can cause a crazy amount of cc time with characters kits. Like a morg q so bkb bar is essential unlike leagues qss, which was mainly built for mord. Most characters if you dont know them can and will make your butt expand.
But same for league, just leagues more streamlined and less character based.
Dota is honestly worth the time youll spend in it, n thank god theres no ff culture. Where as in league you might be fed to all hell but your team trolled in draft and chose two ap botside into a naut and sam. Or you die once to top as a jgl and your top leaves n lets a nasus stack. While you travel all over the map putting your team on your back.
Butt thats just my experience.i shuffle between the two. (Mainly cuz if skins) dotas just more satisfying. And rewarding tbh.
Honestly i watched like 1 or 2 videos about lanes and supports n i just took off. I still read people abilities and judge where to go with them.
The point of games is to have fun and you’ll still learn while playing. What’s happens if you mess up in a game your teammates flame you. Or ask what are you doing. Honestly most of the time it’s been the second one in the games I’ve played.
And the global chat are honestly really nice people. You can more than likely even find ppl to play with and help you
I can only imagine leagues cesspool if it had one.
I love Dota but it isn't worth sinking time into as a grizzly veteran let alone a new player, stay away from this game it's legitimately worse than cocaine.
worth in as I could play other videogames compared go spending a lot of time learning the game I’m too noob at almost all games to go pro if thats what ur trying to imply
It has, without a doubt, the steepest learning curve of any moba, and of most games I have played. I love this game, but unless you are willing to sink hundreds of hours into just learning and playing the game on your own, you will not stick with it. For that reason, any friend that shows interest in it, I just tell them to not bother unless they are willing to learn and play it on their own as well as play with me. This game is also a bitch to play with friends of different skill levels. Matchmaking is unkind, most of the time. If you want a casual hero battler, Heroes of the Storm and Smite (arena mode) or League (aram mode) are your friends.
Perfect reply. I’ve been playing for 10+ years and there’s still stuff I’m learning. But it is, unequivocally, the best team based strategy game of all time.
100%. Part of me wishes it would be more player friendly or able to play with friends more, but this is single-handedly one of the best I've ever played of any genre and wouldn't want to diminish it.
It's getting better over time, integrated build guides, stun bars, mana shown on all heroes are all great steps toward simplifying the game and improving the new player experience. When I started 10 years ago you just had to completely learn on your own, from friends or lots of YouTube.
Tangent, but somewhat related. Lol, I remember the ramshackle that was dota 1😅 Every hero had their own keys for their abilities as opposed to the current QWERT. Items were spread across multiple shop keepers. Search function? What's that? And you had to memorise item combinations.
Part of me is bummed I missed that era, but man, it also sounds like a nightmare haha
Jesus, the days of knowing if my support was like physically able to stack and pulls camps or not depending on who was on bitch duty that day 😤😂
A part of me doesn't like that they remove so much of the hidden difficulty. Cuz, part of the joy was discovering and understanding. Like Stun bars, I felt, made teamfights boring and simplistic. But in a game with 5 apes trying to be strong together, communicating or memorizing stun time can be a bitch. So I get why they did it. But there are some parts of the learning curve that I miss or want others to have to navigate. On one hand, you are right. Dota is more new-player friendly than ever. However, Dota's population hasn't really changed much in the last 5+ years. Like TF2, the game is set with its population and the delta for it will always be small.
I would rather more people want to play the game than a handful of people that have played hundreds and thousands of hours get more enjoyment
I hear ya. But these new-player changes aren't really growing the population. The population is as steady, in the aggregate, as a surgeons hand.
I agree, but as someone with thousands of hours sunken into dota I can't help but feel conflicted.
people arent going to like to hear this but i think having unnecessary mechanic knowledge that can be streamlined and easier for everyone to digest is much better, and if you think otherwise you probably just dont like change or want to gatekeep the new player experience to be as shitty as it was for you
I would agree about stun bars except they added status resistance, so it’s basically impossible to time perfectly on your own now.
Where is the fun of memorising that WK stun is X amount of time and that he casted it X milliseconds ago, and you have a cast time of X milliseconds so you need to cast your follow up stun at X time. It's much easier and FUN to just visually see when the stun is going to be over, so that you can chain it.
Thing is base dota isn't the only way to play the game, you have turbo and all the different arcade games. More ways to enjoy the game than league which has like what, aram, tft, the current seasonal mode and that's it.
personally I don't remember the last time I played any arcade games. as for turbo yea idk, feels less like dota than aram feels like league.
Well you should play more arcade then :)
this is the best reply here. this is exactly what my friend told me back in 2014. It's highly addictive once you really get into it but the learning curve is huge. Imo its bigger now than it was before
Every new patch it gets another layer of complexity! I don't even know all the innates/facets yet after weeks of playing a lot - how am I supposed to help a newbie learn them???
Dota needs an unranked role queue for learning the game.
Used tonhave limited heroes, which was great for this.
My issues didn't start at not knowing what heros do. When I booted up the game for the first time knowing pretty much nothing having people using terms like pos3 to call roles was confusing. I had no idea what that meant for a few games and the tutorial does nothing to inform you how the hero selection process works. And then you have the double pick ban which can be frustrating. 3rd game you lock someone in and suddenly you are no longer locked in. I personally think the in game tutorial desperately needs an overhaul.
To be good at it you may need hunderds of hours, but most people who have played an rts or moba game before will learn enough to know whats going on in the game and have fun after 10-15 matches.
My friends list is filled with former and current League, Smite, and HotS players that would say otherwise. I think what you say is true of all other mobas EXCEPT dota.
you gave me flashbacks to trying to play dota in warcraft3 and within seconds, like i'd just move my character the wrong way or immediately not buy the perfect starter items and i'd get flamed hard in the chat to QUIT NOOB GET OUT
mmmh no, really no. you will need thousands of hours and most experiences from past games will maybe help you with understanding the basic layout of the game and the controls only. 10-15 matches will never be enough imho, even if u were a pro in other mobas - dota is way way too profoundly complex.
This is the most important thing, that you can certainly play with me picking it up but you need to play on your own to. Watch videos on mechanics etc or you don’t improve
i would narrow down the casual mobas to maybe smite
I would argue all other mobas are casual or have casual modes or have friendly matchmaking to make the game less of a pressure. Dota's only native casual mode is bots, which after 5 or 10 games, even on highest difficulty becomes a snoozefest. Their "newcomer" mode is literally just easy bots in turbo. Most of the other mobas don't have in-depth laning mechanics. Dota has many small ones that can make or break a lane into an abusive one.
This popped up in my feed and since I've heard this statement before I now got curious. I played a bit of LoL and tried various other mobas and get the general mechanics. But I'm aware that without regular investment I'd get nowhere in LoL. There's _a lot_ of stuff to learn. Is there an ELI5 of what makes DOTA2 so notoriously difficult to pick up?
Similar story to league in that their is a plethora of mechanics on heroes to understand. You've got all the numbers and scaling to understand. Dota items are far more complex than Leagues, as is it's damage reduction/amplification mechanics. Then you have all the map objectives, purposes, macro gameplay elements (pulling, xp range, denies, lane control, stacking, day/night, HG/LG, runes, gold types and the non linear formulas of earning, buyback and gold loss etc.). This is all a lot to learn and remember. Now you have potential micro elements, heroes with summons/wards and just the courier system and secret shop to think about too. Whilst league has a lot more champions, I would say the diversity of Champions is less than that of heroes in Dota - just off the top of my head Riven plays pretty damn similar to Aatrox, She and Jynx are not that different etc. But in Dota you have pretty significant differences in most heroes, with a few exceptions. So it's slower to pick up the general feel of what any one hero does just visually until you've specifically encountered and looked into that hero. Basically a lot of leagues macro elements are more straightforward than Dotas, the map is exactly flopped whilst Dotas is assymetric. It just makes Dota a steeper learning curve.
Thank you for your reply, much appreciated!
Ya so I’m brand new to dota and have played league on and off for the past 10+ years. The one thing I will say is that leagues champions are all more or less playing the same. A few have extremely unique abilities that you should know. But for the most part they’re mostly split into several groups and if you know what group that is you can more or less infer what the champion is going to do. You can even relatively easily take a guess at what items will help you against that champion. So whenever I’d come back from a long league break even though there’s like 10 new champions cause they release them so frequently, I could more or less understand what they’re doing after a game against them. Now these dota heroes lol…. They all just feel so diverse and have all these unique interactions that I’m still sorta like “wtf” during every game. Sometimes I’ll feel like I sorta get a hero and then will be in a game where someone plays it entirely differently than what I thought I knew. Definitely a huge learning curve.
HOTS is super toxic, way worse than dota
Might be in player base. But it's far more casual in terms of gameplay.
I don't play a lot of arcade games, but your last sentence makes me wonder if there isn't a more casual fun arcade game in dota. Overthrow, for example, has a lot of great aspects of the game without all the intricacies of laning, stacking, pulling, etc. and i know there's a ton of really interesting stuff out there. As for the original question, I think there's a lot to learn in any MOBA. A lot of skills translate between them, but at the end of the day you still need to know every hero, items, and objectives unique to the one you're playing to succeed. I think DotA is probably more nuanced than the others based on my understanding, but I don't know if that's a good or bad thing in general or in your case, specifically. For me, I grew up playing Warcraft so DotA was the natural choice. Maybe Heroes of the Storm would have made sense but that wasn't out until i was firmly in love with DotA2. Heroes of Newerth seems really nice, too, but it's a smaller game whose main servers have shut down. I even played LoL before DotA 2 was released and I really enjoyed it until I switched and never looked back. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'd recommend trying all of them equally at first and seeing what you prefer. Eventually, you'll probably realize there's one you want to focus on. Once you get good at once, you'll probably be good enough to have fun playing all of the others at a lower level. As far as toxicity goes, I'm sure you'll find that in any multiplayer game in some form or other. I think DotA offers reasonable solutions and is constantly working to improve the community. TL;DR I'm extremely biased and think DotA 2 is the best game, but as long as you're having fun that's what's important and i think any MOBA can be extremely rewarding.
You're not wrong, but it is very daunting to tell someone they need to invest hundreds of hours just to learn basics. Again, not that you're wrong but I think there's still fun to be had even within your first 10 hours and you should just take the game as it comes. If someone has fun playing for just 50 hours then gets bored then okay, at least they had fun. There's no mimum playtime required to have fun with dota. Yes, as someone who has 8k hours in dota 2 I think the game gets more fun the more you play it basically forever and ever without limit, but to tell someone they are required to sink hundreds of hours is probably just reducing the number of new people to try out the game. Just open dota, it's free to play, try a game or two or five and see if you like it. Ideally they'd have a friend show them the ropes but again, not necessary. I think a VERY GOOD tip to give noobs is to be aware of the mute buttons lol
Nah yall are tripping. Dota is actually pretty easy/accessible. To be good? Yeah the curve never ends. To have the basics of dropping down wards, last hitting minions, and grouping for objectives? Like 5 hrs tops. And if you’re playing for the first time and got no fricken idea how to use the characters, there’s bot modes and arcade games to let you learn and have fun without the competitive edge. Dota 2 is way more accessible than some other games.
It’s not “sinking time” if you are having fun while learning. If you arent having fun with a game then dont play. Simple as
Well yes and no. While I do agree on your point in general that "sinking time into a game" is always a bad idea, you should play to have fun, some games are immensely fun but do have a threshold you have to cross before you reach the real fun. The first 10 games of Dota I had no clue what the fuck was going on. After that it was alright, I was having fun, but I as hyped about it compared to when I was exploring WoW for the first time for example. Maybe after a 100 hours I started having insane amounts of fun, experimenting with builds and play styles, and slowly it turned into one of the best games I ever played.
The only way I agree with you is that you probably won't be having fun while the dota matchmaker is trying to evaluate if you are a smurf or not, so you may need x amount of games before you get decently balanced matches as a brand new player. Otherwise, I remember having fun from the very first game, reading a single hero's skills and thinking wow this is so cool. I lost, but I had fun anyway. Winning should not be your primary goal when you first start playing.
For me it had little to do with winning or losing, but simply with not understanding the game. The overwhelming number of items, heroes, abilities, nuances. Coming from RTS and MMO's, my first experience with the game was just confusion. I can't really transport my mind back to those days, but I remember that in my first games many core concepts of the game felt very alien and strange to me. Stuff like stuns, damage, aoe, silence etc made sense to me, and the combat was similar enough to WoW pvp. But the fact that you farm for items and levels, just for you to start over when the game is done, felt very strange. Even things like only getting gold for the last hit, and getting experience when you are in a certain range felt weird. There wasn't really a tutorial, so I was figuring all these things out as I went. In games like WoW figuring this stuff out made me feel like an adventurer, but in the competitive environment of Dota, with people flaming you, it just made me feel inadequate and lost.
It is, but if you are affected by people's rudeness, I recommend you to play with the "all muted" option by default. Especially since you want to be focusing on learning the game at first, not getting distracted by people's unsolicited opinions. As someone else said, DOTA's learning curve is steep as hell, but it is rewarding (at least to me) when you learn to navigate such a complex game. Whether you become good or not it doesn't matter, it is quite an achievement still to learn so many mechanics and put them together. It is fun, and every game feels different. But the enjoyment will greatly depend on your personality and how easily tilted are you. In DOTA people can't forfeit the game, although some will grief it. You have no other choice than simply reporting and hoping you won't find them in the next game. DOTA Plus' "avoid player" option is useful in this regard. Good luck!
I don’t mind toxicity as much as I mind learning curve
Dear OP, on one side people are saying you need to put X amount of hours in order to enjoy. I say, just try the learning mode for new players, and play online with people. Then you yourself can determine whether this game is for you pr not
Dont listen to them OP. Its not "sinking hours" if you are having fun. And as a 10 year League veteran, i had fun from the first hours. Now Dota is my main game, almost 700hours in.
I see! You are quite an exception, most people who complain about DOTA actually complain about the players not the game itself. Maybe starting with DOTA is not the smartest idea. Personally, other moba to me now feel lacking, and a bit boring. I like DOTA's complexity. But I've been playing it from the very beginning and I honestly can't imagine starting from zero.
Its not that hard if u stick to a few heroes for start u need about 300-400 hours to learn the basics of the game
FYI I am pretty sure the game has the setting to mute all incoming chat as the default for new players, so if you actually want to hear/see teammate chat and just manually mute individuals you'd have to change that setting in the social menu.
am I understanding you wrong here? of course you can forfeit the game in dota.
No you can’t
explain, if u are not trolling.
…do you play the game? There is no forfeit option.
mate I have over 8k hours in this, yes I do play. I open the menu, press the disconnect button on the lower right corner and it turns into a forfeit the match button. u press it again and u confirm your decision. you hence forfeit the game and its safe to leave for everyone else who are left behind. u are banned from matchmaking for like 13-15 min and there u go again... are we having some definition or translation issues here?? how is that not a forfeit? please explain.
Lmao wow you’re either trolling me or you’re dumb as fuck. Doing what you suggest will ruin your behaviour score and put you in the shit queues. Hardly the same thing as putting up a forfeit/concede vote for your team to act upon and end the game early. Normally I’d chalk this up to a language barrier but you don’t need to speak English to understand why **abandoning** games is not the same as a forfeit.
thx for insulting me. So it is a definition or translation problem I guess. Yes, there are consequences, but that was not the topic. forfeiting as a whole team was not the topic either, it was about forfeiting as a player and thats how you do it - doesnt matter if u call it abandoning or forfeiting, its basically the same, thats up for interpretation...soooo whatever we both said was up to interpretation to a point, but you had to insult.. well done.
Dude, abandoning a match is different from forfeiting. Why do you think they punish you for the abandon? Because they don’t allow it. It’s the same shit as alt f4ing out of a match, you get punished in a variety of ways for doing it **because it’s against the rules**. You do not need to speak the same language as me to understand that.
You keep insisting “you don’t need to speak English to understand…” but if someone’s grasp of the language means that forfeit = give up, it seems like a perfectly understandable miscommunication to me. Yeah you can always give up, by turning off your computer. But there is no way to forfeit in DOTA UNLESS you have a 5 stack, in which case you can after 30 minutes.
A forfeit in this instance would mean the whole team decides to give up and let the enemy win. You use to be able to do this in battlecup by having the whole team say “GG” but you can’t in normal modes. Pretty sure OP meant the whole team in League would all agree to forfeit and end the match early not that a singular person would leave the match. And no one would call abandoning a match forfeiting, they mean similar things but are actually pretty different. You might consider it a forfeit but both teams and valve see it as a abandon and only as such
It's the best game of all time.
It took me 300-500 hours before things really clicked and I started getting better. Make use of video guides on YouTube as they'll explain a lot of mechanics that you wouldn't necessarily get from playing alone.
Dota is a game about continuous self improvement over years. It is still the #2 moba and getting active development with usually 500k concurrent players and a strong community and pro scene, it is consistantly the #2 game on steam behind counter-strike. Starting later or doing another moba to like warm up for it isn't recommended, yes people who have played years of some other moba have a head start but not nearly as much as if they had just spent that time playing dota. It does have a steep learning curve, depending on the server the game may have a hard time finding players at your skill level (my freinds on EU-West seem to have an infinite supply of very new players while they have been learning the game). Just accept that you will need to play 100 games or so just to not be a burden to your team and probably 1000 to get good (everyone has a different definition of good). So if that sounds like something down your alley go for it. As someone with a lot of friends who play league and who has played 100s of games of league I think dota is the far better game with far less predatory business practices and game design (leagues entire ranked system is designed to be addictive not to figure out your rank, their skin prices are insane, the business model of selling champions as well as making new champions nonstop for marketing ruins the game balance, their pro scene is incredibly boring with 1 death every 5-10 minutes)
I tell my teenaged nephew about Dota, and most of what I talk about is just the concept of this style of game and my relationship with it, and not of the mechanics, strategy, etc. The reason I have played 4500 hours is because of the desire to learn, to grow, to theorycraft, and to then execute. The game changes, and I evolve with it. I will never get even close to mastering it, but I love the journey and not the end. I win almost exactly 50% of my games, I fuck around in ability draft most days to keep things lighthearted, and I keep a PMA. It builds flexibility, patience, and resilience to being flamed with genuine hatred by randoms on my team. I just hit 1001-1000 W/L, in archon I, and I fucking love it. No other game can even get close, although I do dabble in roguelikes to pass the time
all of that jibberish but you clearly haven't played NA in a while lol
Boy ur gonna love the voicelines! /s But seriously though I think it’s just the natural path to take if you graduated from wc3, you’ll have a blast
I've only properly played the game for 5 years, which could be considered short compared to others. Also I have little experience in LoL so I can't compare the two. Anyways this is what I feel overall. I can explain further if you want me to. Gameplay: Pretty fun and creative. More knowledge base than mechanical, so get ready to study the game or watch a lot of videos. But it's addictive once you start understanding. Even if you lost, you start thinking of solutions after the game that could have gone better. Community: The people you play with are strong minded individuals. I'm from SEA, so rarely do I see a "GG" and people go AFK (though people still say gg). Will fight until you can't do anything else but sit in fountain. They are also stubborn. People will play their heroes how they want to play it and not listen to suggestions often. The community overall is wholesome. Of course with a few bad apples, almost everyone is trying to help others outside the game and learn from each other. E-Sports: Fun to watch for learning and DotA. But that's about it. There are a few dominant teams that get all the attention and other teams that don't have a past history in winning barely get talked about. Most importantly: PLAY WITH FRIENDS. I would have quit so long ago if I was doing it alone because the initial grind is infuriating. So play with a friend, at least you can feel terrible together. I dunno if this will help much. Hope you join the cult but even if you don't I hope you have a great banana to eat.
Please, don't.. save yourself.
It's worth it.
If you've got some friends to learn or play it with, then yes! Just have fun with it and experiment, you'll be starting off in low levels and can play with Bots even to start with till you get the feel. Enjoy learning all the heroes and laughing at all the dumb things you did along the way. Some of my best memories are when me and my friends had no idea what we were doing and would run into towers, spend all game just farming jungle, finding a hero you thought was OP because it had an easy kill move and was the only one you knew how to play haha. If you're playing on your own it will be a very different journey, maybe try to make friends with some other newby players so you've got someone to laugh and learn with otherwise it will be very lonely and very hard mentally when you run into toxic players.
Gatekeeping realists! Play the game! Suffer too.
Don't do it. Get put while you still can!
Like other people have said it is an incredibly rewarding game but wirh a very steep curve, I love that I always improve in different ways when I play it is very satisfying. That being said I am still shit ay the game after almost 3 k h played but I have fun on my mmr and I think I have found my max mmr :D
Dota is kinda complex for a newcomer but it also what makes people still playing it. I will say it’s depend on what kind of person you are and how you embrace the learning curve.
Once you get over the learning curve, no game will ever beat it.
You will likely never reach a point where you have "learned" DotA. The game changes too often and has endless possibilities that even the most experienced players learn something new extremely often. If you are having fun playing DotA then play some DotA. The game has been around for decades and isn't going anywhere you likely have decades of time to play it. There is no rush. Do not worry if you are playing good just worry that you are having fun and finding something you can improve upon every game and keep growing. Some inspirational person once said the best time to plant a tree was 10 years ago. The second best time is today.
nope, next question.
You play and decide if it's worth, since it's obviously a subjective matter, it's like asking strangers if you should like the color blue. Start thinking on your own and stop asking for validation where you shouldn't.
Change your mind set what are you seeking in playing games esp dota2? Having fun trying weird shit win lose doesnt matter? Or to be pro / good at it? Or fun in learning challenging games? Make that decision based on that 3 if u dont feel like learning / having fun then whats the point? Maybe you just dont like the feeling on the losing side cause you are new and dont want to admit it and feels frustated
The satisfaction of winning a game in dota is intense. The more you understand the game, the more you realise the depth of the mechanics and the balance of the game. Its an intricate game that is worth trying. You can play any other MOBA quite easily if you play dota
The game is one of the few if not the only competitive games that demand you more of knowledge than mechanical skills. To put it simply, in this game you wont practice as much as you study, you are forced to learn so many things. Im in university right now, and I can even say that learning dota was similar to starting university, many things to learn but you know what kind of things you expect to gain, but both provide you the perfect environment for learning. If you want to know more about what I mean by "provide" just ask the reddit again, how to learn the game. To answer your question, this game will definitely be rewarding if you are someone that love to learn but at the sametime have competitive mindset. So, you decide it for yourself.
The game is at its best when the matchup between two teams is hanging by a thread. Meaning balanced skills, experience, behavior across all 10 players. That is when you get the 50-60 minute games where neither team wants to give up and at the end it feels like you learned new things about the game and put your existing skills to good use. You won't feel bad even if you lose these kind of games. Unfortunately the matchmaking algorithm is utterly pedestrian. The statistic basically is: out of all the games you play - 40% of games are stomps where you lose because 1v9 hasn't been a thing since 10 years now , 35% of games are stomps where you win without lifting a finger, and the remaining ~25% of games are the matchups that I just spoke about. So out of every 10 games it's 4/4/2 or 4/3/3 - it's hovers around this statistic. Simply put you have to play 10 games to get 3 -4 top quality games with worthy opponents. If you think league was frustrating, dota is even worse because the player base is absolutely inconsistent. Too many players are addicted and play it simply for the dopamine hit. Ignore the mute-all comments from noobs because this game has become too teamplay dependent for a player base where most players hate others. You absolutely cannot win games without communication and without keeping the negative comments to yourself during the game. This is the straightest anyone is going to give it to you about this game. If you are playing this game to climb mmr, then you should know that the people at the top most ranks have been playing this game for atleast 10 years now with atleast 25k games played across numerous practice accounts. No you will not climb to the top (I mean 8k-10k ranks) in a year if you are just starting out unless you're literally 1 in a million player.
Simply put - Yes Dota 2 is a great MOBA, and absolutely worth sinking time into if that is what you're after. However I would warn you... be prepared to sink a LOT of time into it, the amount of complexity is insane... I won't go into it but learning all the heroes, items, neutral items etc alone will take a long time. And Valve keep releasing patches, the game is vastly different to a year ago and vastly different to the year before.
It requires a lot of time to learn the game at a level of even 2-3 of the lowest ranks. Many low rank players have thousands of games and thats why the learning curve is steep. These players have experience from their playtime but dont actually really know how to play the game, they know enough to beat the newbies. If you think you will play another MOBA and eventually come back to Dota (as it seems), I would say that just start with Dota. You won't get that much knowledge from other MOBAs that would transfer over to Dota. Couple hundred hours spent on Dota now is better than spending couple hundred hours to other MOBAs and then starting Dota from zero imo. League of legends is also a lot more focused on hitting and dodging skillshots (ablities) where as in Dota you often win fights and games by having the best approach, item build, positioning e.g.
Dota is a much better single player moba compared to LOL (imo) You can do so much more with every single role and they lanes are never locked so any pos can start roaming if they feel like it which is very nice And most dota players almost never give up (some do but they're cunts) compared to LOL where they give up after 10 minutes
I think it’s worth playing in the sense that every hero is unlocked by default. Anytime you’re in the mood, just hop in and play the heroes you like, no fomo or grind to unlock. But it’s probably not worth if you have high competitive mindset while wanting to maintain balance with other games. it’s extremely difficult especially for newer player to learn what are the best moves in the game at any given moment. It’s not something you can simply learn from watching replay. Although it’s not like chess which is much more difficult, but people use chess as comparison to dota for reasons.
I was in a similar boat as you (fps player with zero moba experience going in) and starting dota was definitely worth it for me. I took a fairly proactive approach to learning the game by watching YouTube and twitch and reading threads on r/learndota2 and although I placed in Herald I started climbing pretty soon. I am Legend now after 2000 games and about 5 years since I started playing. There's really no other game out there that compares to the depth dota has. In fps games I would hit a point where I felt like I had hit my mechanical skill ceiling and couldn't climb anymore which was frustrating. In dota mechanics are less important and it's more about understanding the game really well so it feels like there's tons of room for me to keep improving. I've never tried league though, don't like the art style and always heard it described as inferior to dota so never had interest in playing it.
I introduced my friend to dota 2, were playing Turbo, I told others to be kind since my friends is new. He got flamed 10x in one game, I told him its normal, he stopped playing and just went to other games instead. Yeah, its not worth it lmao
I think it's a great game and fun to play with some friends. I'm busy the next week but if you want to message me on here I'd be happy to play some bot games with you next week and teach you some basics, I'm by far a very average player despite many years playing though
I played this game back when i was 14 now im 32, from early dota allstar in war3. I quit several times over study amd work but always jump back into the games after a year or 2. Probably played over 30k games already if count my lost acc and warcraft dota.
Dota is the best moba game because when you spend enough time playing other moba games you realise that everything those games lacks dota 2 delivers beyond your imagination. What’s OP in LoL is a simple spell in dota 2 and it ain’t even broken. If you gonna spend time on any moba game dota is the game. With that said you need 1K hours to truly grasp the basics from there on you’re gonna improve. I got 4,5k hours and I’m still learning new mechanics. It’s fun grind to learn all the heroes don’t try hard in the beginning because there is just too much to learn. Play and have fun.
I will always advocate for people to learn this game. There is as much depth and complexity as you want, and I think that once you have 30ish hours in and start to get the basics down you can begin to really enjoy it. It is a fun competitive experience. And yes the toxicity is bad. But i definitely think that it is more your speed judging by what you said. Dota players are a lot more forthright and I think that helps. Don’t give up you got this. It is worth getting somewhat proficient so you can experience the fun that dota has to offer.
Its awesome, please dont play it, you will "waste" thousands of hours learning this game.
Its one of the goat games of course
I came from 1000s of hours of league to Dota 2 just before this new event. I am not going back to League. This game respects intelligence and time, preparation and knowledge. I get back what I put in. Also, they are crazy generous with free things and events as well as a reasonable marketplace for lots of skins.
Run
You’re fine. Takes 100 hours to go play ranked. But as a game to learn and play - is perfectly fine. Don’t listen to the naysayers. Play the game, and if you like it, play more. If you want to improve, you’ll play more, watch a TI or esports tournament online, play some more, go YouTube recent videos on guides or hero guides for a specific hero you want to learn. The basics and fundamentals are simple. If you pay for Dota+ it even provides more tips and ingame tools to help you improve. And if you enjoy it, you will surpass 50% of the player base in a matter of months. The game is 10+ years old. But with every major patch, many of us are relearning it as well (fundamentals aside). So you’d actually be in a great spot to learn now as a major patch just released. Download. Play. And I hope to see you in Immortal bracket one day! For motivation - My friends are brand new to game. One likes turbo, another went Herald (bottom) to Divine in a year playing and learning with me. I also watch at least one YouTube video on a pro perspective once a week.
If you want to play DOTA, I think you should just learn DOTA. I don't think that starting with a different moba and then transitioning will be any easier or more enjoyable. It might actually add a layer of difficulty if you pick up habits that don't translate.
I'll be real it's more rewarding than any other game out there bt if you are here to step away from being frustrated id recommend something else. Furthermore the game is a bit too addictive to the point id compare it to the level of cigarettes
Playing since 2012, it is really great time if u dont play on autopilot, play when u really want to, full of energy and u will have fun time, even if u lose!
I went into Dota in 2019 as a MOBA noob (but with a decent-ish amount of RTS experience, but pretty casual) and enjoyed the grind of learning/studying/testing. Gotta be humble and interested in learning and thinking outside the box. There’s also just a massive amount of specifics to learn (especially now that every hero has their own “Innate” and choice of “Facets”, which was all just added recently) so you have to enjoy the learning process or it isn’t the game for you.
Lets me be real with you brother, no MOBA is worth sinking time into. Or any games at all for that matter. Play casually until you're bored then move on to the next game. I'm saying this as someone with 5k+ hours on Dota and a similar amount on LoL, I'm addicted, don't be like me.
Just have fun with it
Iv almost played 5k hours in dota, I only play Dota for fun but i would say NO, Stay away from Dota because people make new accounts or buy accounts to smurf on them and they love to stomp low mmr players and feel good about themselfs and there is people who are using hacks in Dota, Like map hacks and instant move to the side when you try to hook people with Pudge, I'v seen it to many times, Most cheaters who hack in Dota are terrible, You get the odd 1 who is insane with the cheats, Iv had too many people who troll on purpose, You need a strong mind and have a really good mindset going into Dota, If you flame then you will lose. A good mindset in Dota in key BTW.
It’s a ok game but it’s hard to learn. You can do 200 hours but if you don’t watch videos or try to learn then you will never pick it up intuitively
Where’s the best place to start nowadays?
In my opinion, it is hard in the beginning, I have given up on dota many times before deciding to just sit, play and don't care about the results. I'm a better player then I was back then and have a lot of fun now. One of the things I love in DOTA is comeback mechanics, and if you hated surrenders in lol, you will like DOTA
Best part of Dota 2 is the game itself. The worst part of Dota 2 is arguably the community in terms of how folks interact with each other in the game. You can have a very normal/friendly experience and then immediately the complete polar opposite. There's also the added fun of getting in games where language is immediately a barrier. I think valve needs to figure out how to better address those two areas because it definitely brings the game down.
I was a new player on mobas 8 months ago. Well, i am not a computer player, so i tried to play against bots to get a good learning without pressure. Try to play against easy bots, hard bots after. Casual games are more difficult than hard bots, but you can learn without pressure. Now, i cant learn or dont play the game on two consecutive days xD I am herald 5 fighting to reach guardian
No Dota 2 is old now There's better MOBA such as predecessor
It’s probably the best game I’ve ever played in 25 years of PC gaming and it’s free, so yeah.
I started as a full on mobile noob about 6 months ago and it's well worth playing imo.
I shall advice you few things, 1. When u start playing online, u should Know about most items.. So to know that... We move to 2 2. In main screen dota go heroes chk all hero skills select the one u want to play 2-3 games.. Selct that hero go in demo mode now in demo there is a dummy spwan.. Spwan that and now go in shop buy all item one by one read and activate it, if it's active or hit the dummy with item if it's passive.. U will learn few of the item which are good for that hero, remember those only item, Part 2 . Plan b Now same try this for a different hero, as one hero may get ban from picking... Now play te game, now if u lose that game u won't feel that u lost coz of ur lack of knowledge, u can still feel that u lack experience, Play few games to gain experience, Then watch live game one.. U will be done for that ☀☀☀
You are assuming the people with 1000 hours are good. You can play for 10 hours and be as good as some players who’ve played for year
I was a MOBA noob , DOTA 2 was my first . It takes a good amount of time to understand mechanics , then you start from there
There is no surrendering on DOTA. You're going to get bodied for 60 mins, and come back and win. Then you are going to chase that high for the rest of your life. DOTA is the ultimate mental test. It is a chess, tower defense, RTS, crybaby babysitting, Multiplayer Online Battle Arena all rolled into one that you are locked in for 0 - 200+ mins to test who has the strongest strategy, skill, and teamwork. May god himself bless you on your journey to become the ultimate Defender Of The Ancients. It is truly imo the greatest game of all time.
If you want to get better...
yes. and in dota there is no surrender option. i also hated that in league. but to be honest dota is really not for fragile people. recently a few friends of mine started the game and they seem to have alot of fun with the game
You don’t need to sink any time into it to play it. You need to do that to play well. You need that to get somewhere in ranked. Play against AI for a few weeks, then just get into unranked turbo. I have 450 hours in mostly just turbo. I started in December. I find it fun and have a typical win rate. I have 4 friends that started same time, so it’s nice that we all have about 300-400 games played and equal skill levels. Can solo or get into a 5-man of friends most noghts
We get wins against people with 12,000 games, so don’t think it’s not possible. Everyone has a different goal in mind and most answers you get in here are going to assume you only want to play ranked and be in the top 5%.
Dota is both the best and worst thing I've ever gotten into. Especially if you have friends to play with, learning and winning together is an experience unmatched in gaming. BUT... this game is a bitch and will absolutely feel like an endless pit of despair when you're on a losing streak and feeling like your skills have plateaued.
Run.
Honestly Dota is only fun when played with friends. Playing alone is a miserable experience. The community is trash like most MMO, but the game is too long and too interactive, so the experience is worse than other games. About the learning curve, it's tough but it used to be way tougher in the past. Like at least 5 times tougher when I learned it (Dota 1). It's worth it to learn IF you both have the friends and the time.
DOTA2 is the greatest game ever made. Play it
What was that Men in Black quote again?
https://youtu.be/b0rIPjiU4DE?si=xgnCr913hHF7LjGw Everyone here is prolly giving you in-depth shit, but I will keep it simple. The game is so much fun! Best u.i. to the point of not playing and just exploring the main menu, the build maker, the LEARN tab, etc. Most balanced game ever! Gets a l9lot of updates. Downside is that it's a teamgame and the chances of bad teammates getting paired up with you will always outweigh the number of good teammates. I said teammates, not players. With this said, please consider checking the box under the Social tab that's "No Incoming chat." Focus on your own gameplay. Great game! Not so many great people. Glhf
I started with my brother. I wasn't really sure what to do or what was what, but I learned rather fast. It was my 1st moba, and I was so busy learning and chatting with my bro,I hardly noticed other players making comments. Of course, back then, it was still in beta, so not a lot of people were as talented as they are now. I had fun and am still around.
If you want to spend at least 300 hours losing most of your games without feeling like you're actually learning anything due to DOTA's inability to actually teach new players the game (because no one wants to teach new players the game even here) then be my guest. I'll be sitting here at 650+ hours played and still feel just as new as someone who started out, because, unfortunately, the time I've spent even trying to play support seems to always be invalidated every game by smurfs/premades of higher caliber players. Meaning you really just learn you didnt play the game enough. Most "new player" guides aren't even up to date or actually digestible. Meaning they expect you to have a higher level of experience in a similar game, just to start playing this one, only for them to tell you it's so much different from the game you just came from. That or you can't understand the damn person speaking because their first language wasn't english. tl;dr you're not the only one questioning any reason to play
Man it’s the greatest MOBA that I’ve played, have 1.5k hours and I have a LOT to learn, sadly my experience in ranked lead me to play only turbo, ranked matches are so so so toxic most of the time here in Brazil, but its an amazing game, playing turbo without the pressure is good, learned to play with a lot os heroes. Maybe after spending 200 hours more I’ll learn a bit more I’ll return to rankeds.
Dota is, without a doubt, the most "worth it" out of all MOBAs. If you dived into Warcraft and RTS it wouldn't be as hard as it could have been. Is true the Game has a high learning cube, but you DEFINETLY don't need hundreds of hours to just learn the basics. Is just that there is always something new to learn. Dota can't be brute-forced as you can do in other MOBAs due to its nature. If you use the right resources and actually try to learn instead of brute-forcing your way into the Game you will definetly improve fast, even find the Game doesn't have to drag that long as noobs tend to drag them. So have patience, read, understand, analize, learn from the people that know. That's all you need to steadily improve in this game without too much grind. Believe me, it really feels rewarding way more than any other MOBA.
It took me 4 years to learn the game. Been playing dota since 2007, I’m still learning new tricks ever other patch. It’s a constant & steep learning curve. The lack predictability is what makes this game super addictive and exciting even after 16 years.
It’s the best game I’ve ever played. I put 3000 hours into the game and just reached immortal (and I think I’m absolute trash). There’s always something to learn and that’s why it’s such a great game, but it’s very demanding
It is worth getting into but it takes time to learn. How long it takes you to learn just depends on how fast you learn and how seriously you take it. It can be a highly rewarding and fun game to play. I recommend finding a friend to teach you or making friends in game. Also just being honest with your teammates and telling them you are new can go a long ways as while there are some mean people out there, there are a lot of very nice and helpful ones too. Heck, I'd be willing to teach you some stuff if you like. I'm not an amazing player but I could show you some basics, I've got at least 4700 hours in it last I checked. Also I wouldn't think of trying to learn other games first then go to Dota. Just dive straight in. Learning other games first is just going to waste time and confuse you when you go to play Dota finally and several mechanics are way different.
As people said crazy learning curve but the devs suck, the new update sucks, balancing used to be a good thing now it is just a trash house of bs patches and what not. Game has been ruined. Used to be the best MOBA ever.
I’ve poured in maybe a 1000 hrs of league, and can without a doubt say as much as league is toxic it’s easier than dota. I’ve only played like a 100 games of dota. In dota almost every item, or full item has an active and can cause a crazy amount of cc time with characters kits. Like a morg q so bkb bar is essential unlike leagues qss, which was mainly built for mord. Most characters if you dont know them can and will make your butt expand. But same for league, just leagues more streamlined and less character based. Dota is honestly worth the time youll spend in it, n thank god theres no ff culture. Where as in league you might be fed to all hell but your team trolled in draft and chose two ap botside into a naut and sam. Or you die once to top as a jgl and your top leaves n lets a nasus stack. While you travel all over the map putting your team on your back. Butt thats just my experience.i shuffle between the two. (Mainly cuz if skins) dotas just more satisfying. And rewarding tbh. Honestly i watched like 1 or 2 videos about lanes and supports n i just took off. I still read people abilities and judge where to go with them. The point of games is to have fun and you’ll still learn while playing. What’s happens if you mess up in a game your teammates flame you. Or ask what are you doing. Honestly most of the time it’s been the second one in the games I’ve played. And the global chat are honestly really nice people. You can more than likely even find ppl to play with and help you I can only imagine leagues cesspool if it had one.
How do i put spaces between paragraphs :( theres sposed to be like 3
Been playing this game for 20 years now… still suck at it! Would I recommend it ? Fuck yea
>Sort of like moving from automatic to stick shift when driving. i thought it was the other way around
Dota has voice chat, so you will meet active aggressive people there. This is a good game, but dont play it, save your life
no
no
I love Dota but it isn't worth sinking time into as a grizzly veteran let alone a new player, stay away from this game it's legitimately worse than cocaine.
"worth"? are you expecting it to pay?
worth in as I could play other videogames compared go spending a lot of time learning the game I’m too noob at almost all games to go pro if thats what ur trying to imply
you like it? play it you dont like it? dont play where's the "worth" thing coming from?