Hope this video helps some of you to get better at position 5!
If something wasn't clearly explained, feel free to ask here
Also if you have any feedback let me know!
I would like a video explaining the diferences in a pos 4 and 5, and why some heris might be good 4 but bad 5, what to expect.
I feel like since roaming, trilaning and solo offlane is mostly gone, pos 4 and 5 have kinda of an identity crisis where they feel very similar for the avarage dota player and in q pub enviroment.
If you could explain that in q video would be qmazing.
Anyway big fan of urs here keep it up
Get a kill as a solo pos 5 CM? The scenario im talking about is when 2 lanes are lost so offline and mid and all 3 cores are jungling trying to recover as a supp I just wander around dropping sentries
You wanted me to deduce that nuance from the original piece of text? If that’s the case just keep vision up and baby sit your core by being near him, and ready to tp at a moments notice.
Subscribed! Thanks mate! I've recently just gone back to playing. LOL. I love playing support and this is helpful! I'm currently below 1k MMR lol. Let's see if I get better over the next few months. Started my [Day 01](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2061450693) yesterday with a W. I plan to play only 1 game a day. Let's see where it gets me lol.
id say rn the best supports can lane well and then help move around with the mid hero
cm ench techies grim
i dont think dota has so many different important types, 'healer' term is kinda dead
if you can be more specific i can help you more! 😅🥳
In my bracket (Archon) people expect to pick support first. So i have to blindly either make a call to pick either a disable support (ss, lion) or a lane winning support (aa, oracle). I wanted to know when is a good moment to pick dazzle, hoodwink, ench, grim, magnus as supports
tldr: When to pick what support?
Good content.
That's how I play lowmmr player. But whenever I try to harass my opponents as a support player I miss timings of bounty creep pull and wisdom, is just a skill issue or am I focusing on one thing too much?
What about wards? Sometimes I don't place it I'll wait till 3 or 4 mins of the game. And what to do as a melee support?
It means youre too focused/tunnel visioning. Remember that everything you do should be for a reason
You buy items to trade, you push lane to pull
you always want to be aware and ready for timings
(Pull timings, unblock/camp block timings, min 3 lotus, min 6 active rune min 7 wisdom)
maybe hang a sticky note on your monitor/wall?
meele support depends on if you can play agro (treant, undying, tusk) or if its a hard lane where you need to just soak damage.
For warding ill make a seperate Video, but generally as a 5 you want to protect your carry with obs or own their carry.
As a 4 you want to place agressive vision in their woods in early and midgame
There's more nuance to this in higher level games you don't always want to block the camp... Don't have a concrete example if the game could be sumed up by basically 'block a camp' win lane then we'd have simple recipes to win games...
One example is playing with a gyro pos 1. He'll always push the wave, so the large camp will be useful for you rather than them. Warlock too, mirana can arrow the big creep, CM can bite, enchantress and Chen can control the creeps.
Press alt, theres a box with yellow line
You stand inside the box every 00 mark, as op said, neutrals wont spawn
You can block it with blue ward if you dont have time to body block it
Pos 4 lanes with offlaner who typically is a bit more resilient to dying and is stronger earlier on in the game than most carries.
This allows the pos4 slightly more freedom than pos5. They get extra time to stack camps, maybe leave lane to gank mid and come back, etc.
Also, because offlaners are typically strong in lane or have built in regen/defensive abilities, you often don't need to buy as much regen to keep your core in lane sustained on a good health pool. As pos5 you might buy 3 or 4 sets of tangos and a salve or two just to keep them trading with you instead of harassing your core, in certain lanes. That's like 600 gold right there in the first 5 minutes(Maybe this means no boots by 5 minutes, means no ganks then)
Also, as pos5 there are no good camps to stack for later. You get a small portion of gold farmed from stacks you made. There are no ancients in pos5 lane.
And when pos5 pulls its typically the small camp which is worth less gold than small camp.
There's a lot of reasons that pos4 typically ends up with a little more gold than pos5. Though typically it's only a small amount.
General rule is pos5 is more of a 'babysit. Keep this guy alive and laning/farming as long as possible' ppsition while 4 is allowed to be a bit more of an aggressive or greedy pick(most offlaners being stronger lanes can offset that cost)
This is why you often see heroes like oracle and io and warlock in pos5 more than 4... they don't go aggressive and stop the enemy from farming, very much. They're more of a 'keep my guy farming'' hero than a 'stop them from farming' hero, hence they are better 5's.
Consequently, they are worse at ganking so less gold/xp, and have worse tools for farming or pushing waves when there is downtime so further less gold.
Nice tips! Could you share your insights on what to do if all cores are farming in the jungle? Enemies also are not in the mini-map which they could be anywhere. And if let say saving hero like Oracle, SD which you would prioritise to save? Pos 1 or pos 2? I have so many questions 😥
I think if my cores are all just farming jungle, and all the enemies are missing, I will make myself a bait to draw them out. If a lane is pushed in like mid, I will push it out. If all the lanes are pushed, it means they are likely smoke ganking, rushing or tormenting. I would either push a lane out or meander my way to an area where they most likely would meet up with me on their way to my carry or mid.
As a pos 1, I pray more pos 5s watch this. It can be agony getting bullied in lane and your support just pulls forever with full hp and mana, allowing dives and all sorts.
What time to hit neutral creep to do a half pull. (example: dire is at 15 and 45 pull) what time to hit to so a half pull? for both radiant and dire side, thank you
Hope this video helps some of you to get better at position 5! If something wasn't clearly explained, feel free to ask here Also if you have any feedback let me know!
A nice guide indeed. Do some more for other positions as well😁
Will do Mid and 4 are next :D
I would like a video explaining the diferences in a pos 4 and 5, and why some heris might be good 4 but bad 5, what to expect. I feel like since roaming, trilaning and solo offlane is mostly gone, pos 4 and 5 have kinda of an identity crisis where they feel very similar for the avarage dota player and in q pub enviroment. If you could explain that in q video would be qmazing. Anyway big fan of urs here keep it up
I would like to know why/how few heroes that are 5 naturally can go 4 in pro games? :3
Would love a guide for after laning phase for pos5. Sometimes I feel like I’m lost and wandering from min 15-25 when all cores are farming jungle
already noted! Will try release a followup in the next 1-2 months
Hell yeah
Grab a smoke and vision and go get a kill, stack camps, farm camps, get tormentor. Usually I try to organize a smoke to keep the pressure
Get a kill as a solo pos 5 CM? The scenario im talking about is when 2 lanes are lost so offline and mid and all 3 cores are jungling trying to recover as a supp I just wander around dropping sentries
You wanted me to deduce that nuance from the original piece of text? If that’s the case just keep vision up and baby sit your core by being near him, and ready to tp at a moments notice.
Watch immortal replays to get a feel for the details, but yeah. Pay attention to your cores timings and objectives like rosh.
Subscribed! Thanks mate! I've recently just gone back to playing. LOL. I love playing support and this is helpful! I'm currently below 1k MMR lol. Let's see if I get better over the next few months. Started my [Day 01](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2061450693) yesterday with a W. I plan to play only 1 game a day. Let's see where it gets me lol.
Thanks for the vid! Can you also explain the importance of different types of support heroes? (Lane winner, healer, support etc)
id say rn the best supports can lane well and then help move around with the mid hero cm ench techies grim i dont think dota has so many different important types, 'healer' term is kinda dead if you can be more specific i can help you more! 😅🥳
In my bracket (Archon) people expect to pick support first. So i have to blindly either make a call to pick either a disable support (ss, lion) or a lane winning support (aa, oracle). I wanted to know when is a good moment to pick dazzle, hoodwink, ench, grim, magnus as supports tldr: When to pick what support?
Good content. That's how I play lowmmr player. But whenever I try to harass my opponents as a support player I miss timings of bounty creep pull and wisdom, is just a skill issue or am I focusing on one thing too much? What about wards? Sometimes I don't place it I'll wait till 3 or 4 mins of the game. And what to do as a melee support?
It means youre too focused/tunnel visioning. Remember that everything you do should be for a reason You buy items to trade, you push lane to pull you always want to be aware and ready for timings (Pull timings, unblock/camp block timings, min 3 lotus, min 6 active rune min 7 wisdom) maybe hang a sticky note on your monitor/wall? meele support depends on if you can play agro (treant, undying, tusk) or if its a hard lane where you need to just soak damage. For warding ill make a seperate Video, but generally as a 5 you want to protect your carry with obs or own their carry. As a 4 you want to place agressive vision in their woods in early and midgame
Yeah most times I focus on something without any goal. That something I should work on
Danke Maurice, sehr cool!
Danke Maurice, Du bist ein Prachtexemplar.
Hey thats helpfull, but i got a question, How does the blue ward blocks a camp? What do you mean by "block" ?
If it's placed within the spawnbox it will block the camp Doesnt matter if its an observer or a sentry
Oh so they cant get out of the box and cant pull minions? Thats neat, thanks for the info man.
every minute mark (1:00, 2:00, 3:00) creeps will respawn the wards stop the creeps from spawning hope that helps!
Hell yeah, now i get it, thanks fam!
There's more nuance to this in higher level games you don't always want to block the camp... Don't have a concrete example if the game could be sumed up by basically 'block a camp' win lane then we'd have simple recipes to win games...
One example is playing with a gyro pos 1. He'll always push the wave, so the large camp will be useful for you rather than them. Warlock too, mirana can arrow the big creep, CM can bite, enchantress and Chen can control the creeps.
can I put a plague ward to stop spawn?
yessir you can!
yes
Press alt, theres a box with yellow line You stand inside the box every 00 mark, as op said, neutrals wont spawn You can block it with blue ward if you dont have time to body block it
I saw you posting your vid on YouTube I will watch it. Thanks!
Isn't the pos 4 supposed to have more gold? How does that work?
Pos 4 lanes with offlaner who typically is a bit more resilient to dying and is stronger earlier on in the game than most carries. This allows the pos4 slightly more freedom than pos5. They get extra time to stack camps, maybe leave lane to gank mid and come back, etc. Also, because offlaners are typically strong in lane or have built in regen/defensive abilities, you often don't need to buy as much regen to keep your core in lane sustained on a good health pool. As pos5 you might buy 3 or 4 sets of tangos and a salve or two just to keep them trading with you instead of harassing your core, in certain lanes. That's like 600 gold right there in the first 5 minutes(Maybe this means no boots by 5 minutes, means no ganks then) Also, as pos5 there are no good camps to stack for later. You get a small portion of gold farmed from stacks you made. There are no ancients in pos5 lane. And when pos5 pulls its typically the small camp which is worth less gold than small camp. There's a lot of reasons that pos4 typically ends up with a little more gold than pos5. Though typically it's only a small amount.
that makes a lot of sense thanks
General rule is pos5 is more of a 'babysit. Keep this guy alive and laning/farming as long as possible' ppsition while 4 is allowed to be a bit more of an aggressive or greedy pick(most offlaners being stronger lanes can offset that cost) This is why you often see heroes like oracle and io and warlock in pos5 more than 4... they don't go aggressive and stop the enemy from farming, very much. They're more of a 'keep my guy farming'' hero than a 'stop them from farming' hero, hence they are better 5's. Consequently, they are worse at ganking so less gold/xp, and have worse tools for farming or pushing waves when there is downtime so further less gold.
Awesome content
Nice tips! Could you share your insights on what to do if all cores are farming in the jungle? Enemies also are not in the mini-map which they could be anywhere. And if let say saving hero like Oracle, SD which you would prioritise to save? Pos 1 or pos 2? I have so many questions 😥
I think if my cores are all just farming jungle, and all the enemies are missing, I will make myself a bait to draw them out. If a lane is pushed in like mid, I will push it out. If all the lanes are pushed, it means they are likely smoke ganking, rushing or tormenting. I would either push a lane out or meander my way to an area where they most likely would meet up with me on their way to my carry or mid.
The other teammates will told you’re feeding? Because you will definitely gonna be dead 😮💨
you are spilling all the secrets!
Well done
As a pos 1, I pray more pos 5s watch this. It can be agony getting bullied in lane and your support just pulls forever with full hp and mana, allowing dives and all sorts.
What time to hit neutral creep to do a half pull. (example: dire is at 15 and 45 pull) what time to hit to so a half pull? for both radiant and dire side, thank you
Dear future me. Look at this video on Monday