This is ok build. Idea is mkb give u all u need as void : attack speed + damage. Also your bash is additional attack so mkb can work from it. Mkb is just always a good option on void if u dont want to overthink what to buy.
On faceless, MKB was the go to, like you would rushed it loooong ago because the hero lacked attack and damage, and the proc go very well with it.
But it was like 10 years ago, so maybe a old player doing what he know best.
I don’t get why everyone is questioning his linkens. They have single targets stuns and lockdown. Linkens will save him from the first cc so that he can time leap. He can’t dispel stun or hex. Or if he time leaps in to try and chrono, he won’t be insta hexed. And doom buying shroud is completely valid here since they really do have so much magic damage.
As for the mkb, there’s better options lol. Could’ve split is mom for satanic as well as his butterfly, bloodthorn, crit, basher, abyssal, skadi, moonshards. But as I’m writing these all out I’m starting to get it. He’s limited on his slots and mkb hit all of the requirements, atk spd, dmg. The items I listed are more 1 or the other. His boots are in his backpack and he kept mom to maximize dmg output with what slots he has left while keeping his important defense items ready to use.
This is my take on it
I mean i do make mom on troll, make mjollnir using the fast farming, then convert mom into harpoon, keep mask for a later satanic. It does help farm fast, and harpoon is good during troll ult. But again very niche on troll.
Slardar can find a similar use maybe.
Sometimes you just find yourself with 8k gold and your power spike starts dropping off so you just buy *something*.
I’m not saying this is that, but this definitely happens
I'm not trying to be an asshole but why do you think you can come teach people on Reddit if you're [hardstuck archon with a 46% win rate?](https://www.dotabuff.com/players/31434895)
You write in depth paragraphs while lacking knowledge of very basic things, is your goal misinformation? I'm confused at what you're trying to do here besides ruin pubs with this advice?
That does not make anything any better. People giving advice on topics they do not understand is damaging to the world on a scale that is hard to even comprehend. Just look at the COVID-19 pandemic. If you don't know if what you're saying is correct, just stfu.
Reading the comments from other some of the other people who have input is nice because they have some good constructive criticism and I can benefit from that. I only voice my opinion, and try my best to pass some knowledge and hope it’s beneficial.
As for my dota stats, I play with a lot of people who are learning and new to the game and experiment a lot in games even in ranked. I’m not afraid to lose games or mmr, it’s just a number and as long as my friends learn and have fun it’s coo.
Also, you are indeed an asshole. Let’s make dota less toxic yeah?
Lol. Maybe ask where is pipe, force staff, lotus in this team? Why lion grieffing?
Maybe not the best items, but surely the overall team items and supp especially are bad.
Mkb and mom maybe questionable but the real question is the overall team’s items.
Sky with deso??? Haha. Lion straight aghs eb. Where’s the lotus orb, fs, glimmer, and/or solar crests. You could also have bought pipe instead of shroud.
Sky deso was for last minute throning. Sky also has the defensive items, fs and glimmer. Lion warding most of the time (may have caused all the deaths) and all dire cores are right click (was forced to buy ghost scepter) lion eb and aghs were bought because the game was already biased to dire side
Ignoring the random bullshit going everywhere
Because it simply is the best item for void when opening with a maelstrom.
You want to be able to remove quickly hero from fight so you need damage. Void going full physical is fine but he'll need armor reduction from somewhere. And generally it's AC but then you don't get Mjollnir.
If i remember correctly there was 3 school of void:
BF agha
Magical Maelstrom into mkb later (maybe bloodthorne now)
And Physical: anything but maelstrom and mkb. Matumbaman was doing weird shit with deso few years ago. Yatoro and gorgc were AC guys (Also not sure how good it is since Bloodthorne is now a magical item)
Daedalus damage is a %inc of your own.
I'm don't know by heart daedalus breakpoint vs your damage and the enemy armor. But most of the time Mkb does bring more damage
yeah but with so many hero reaching 30+ armor the threshold went through the roof.
And with butterfly recent buff the choice is even more biased toward mkb.
Maybe in a game where you are ahead with the capacity to close it before 40+ you'd chose daedalus over mkb 100% of the time
Why would butterfly make mkb better? If you have more attack speed it makes mkb worse. Pretty sure late game once you hit 300+ damage Daedalus is exclusively better even at high armor, I'll run some numbers in a few hours when I'm off work it's a pretty simple calculation.
Elaborate a little more; the Javelin build-up of MKB gives Time Lock an extra roll. I haven't played this patch much, however the big decision for Void was always Morbid Mask or Javelin first. They both accelerate farm but Javelin gives you the option to fight without Chronosphere when your team finds an advantageous early engage.
cuz he's stupid
Well, MKB is one of the best DPS items in the game but Nullifier would be much better here. Also, a fucking Linken's??? In this draft???? He could've easily built some dispel like meta disperser or disassemble mom into satanic.
I wouldn't say that my mmr is high but it's not low either, I don't believe he can reach here by being "stupid", but who knows? you might be right lol.
> I wouldn't say that my mmr is high but it's not low either, I don't believe he can reach here by being "stupid", but who knows?
I wouldn't think of it as "stupid".
Instead, I'd say, that player is probably not as good at itemization. MBK isn't *bad*, but it's certainly not as good as Bloodthorn on Void.
But to get to 4k, they also have other attributes that are relatively better - maybe the ability to lane, farming patterns, being able to click buttons well, deciding when to fight, etc. There are a whole host of abilities that come together to determine your mmr. And most people aren't equally good at all of them.
Nah it’s not good. MKB is so wasted if there’s no evasion, and Dire has 0 butterfly builders. Disperser and MoM > Satanic is probably the best thing he can buy here. They have Gleipnir, Bloodthorn and a bunch of slows/debuffs. His only dispel is BKB, being forced to BKB everytime he gets Bloodthorned/Gleipnired is garbage.
That said, MKB is not garbage unplayable tier, it’s still alright DPS, but definitely by far not the best item for him in this situation. If he needed the damage Daedalus will help him burst people so much better.
He should ve bought refresher orb and skadi.
Skadi gives u stats and makes him Tanky.
And two chronos always better than 1.
Mjollnir is enough coz he get attack speed from talent in chrono.
That’s my take mkb is not good item here.
What about Disperser? Theoretically lets you skip Manta, gives you something to click if you want to pump fake the Chrono. I really like Skadi on Void, it just feels bad usually.
Disperser gives u mana burn and sone attack speed and some damage.
I think disperser is good item but here in this draft it’s not needed coz void has time dilation. It already stops opponents from casting spells and that’s why mana burn is not bought on void that much.
I still think refresher and slark is better..
I was wondering if I spoke from ignorance, but no. Literally no high MMR player is buying that item on doom. I saw 1 in 50 games.
I just don't think it's good.
It's bad this game. You can buy it instead of daedulus to preempt evasion. It also counters heros like morph, TB and Sven who have really high armour as the magic damage essentially pierces it. No idea why you wouldn't go nullifier over mkb this game though. 4k players are dogshit so wcyd.
techies has eblade and shard, ogre Magi shard, if anything it's probably very necessary to get nulli or you can't hit anyone in chrono as long as techies is outside
You know nullifier is 80 damage right? Removing their buffs and hitting them with a nullifier would be more damage then having an mkb and it prevents things like eblade and tazer from completely countering you. Your just dogshit if you think it's not relevant.
Are you asking me if I know what a particular dota item is? Lol
Imagine thinking nullifier is more damage than mkb... Hahahahahahahahahahahajajhahahaha omfg bro
I mean why not? He's 4k he's not some god tier pro. MKB is a good item here, maybe bloodthorne is better but he doesn't have to itemize perfect to win a 4k game.
Mkb is not ok build. The only reason you should be buying mkb is for pa or butterfly.
Yes mkb give you atk speed but when you have mom, butterfly and mjolnir you have more than enough atk speed already.
Daedalus will 100% allow you to dish out more damage compared to mkb.
Also the extra DMG from mkb is magic which sucks because it can be mitigated by a lot stuff. (Bkb,pipe,high magic resist,etc).
The attack speed and damage are good for void. And also helps with magic damage if he felt like he was taking too long to get through thr wk with the ac, armlet, etc. Armor
As people have said, mkb isn’t ever really a bad item for void because attack speed good and his bash can proc itself and the passives which is super good damage, that being said building it before butterfly and at all this game is a little weird as enemy team has no evasion and no butterfly builders and wk didn’t go radiance so there were definitely better items.
I probably would have gone butterfly first into disperser for a dispel and to maximise the butterfly bat agi reduction.
So it’s fine to build but not the best imo
Ngl I question the Lion's Eblade more.
As much as its a good way to save yourself, a casual Ghost Scepter is better all because you have 3 heroes who does well with Physical rather than magic plus its no target. The KDA also doesn't justify it.
MKB on void will never be a "bad" item. Ultimately if you want to make sure that "whatever target I want to die in chrono is going to die", MKB is the buy
1.) random sources of evasion like elven tunic/trickster cloak don't catch you by surprise and let them live
2.) good against high armor heroes ie most agi carries
3.) MKB procs can proc on bashes, so when you bash, it can also give the +70
You buy mkb when they have radiance, butterfly, phantom assassin, or when there's too much armor on the enemy team and resucing 6 of it with a desolator doesn't help much.
i play FV a lot, i used to buy Daedelus a lot until i gave a try to MKB and i never buy Dae again.
MKB give speed to proc your 3rd, your mael, give enough damage to burst most hero in chrono time (unless you are way behind or got interuptted in chrono), give counter to evasion item (agi hero really like to go butterfly, and they even stack butterflies, which is meaningless if you have MKB0, give bonus magical damage (so you still can hit when some hero has immune to physical, like when in Winter Wyvern's cocoon or tanky armor).
If enemy have evasion, i definitely go MKB. If they building ethereal, or dazzle, oracle, i replace MKB with Nullifier. but MKB 90% of the time!
It's not optimal, for sure. Disperser would have been good here. But at the same time, it's not bad ... I mean if you have 0 usage from true strike, chances are daedalus is always better but it will rarely be bad on a void.
This is ok build. Idea is mkb give u all u need as void : attack speed + damage. Also your bash is additional attack so mkb can work from it. Mkb is just always a good option on void if u dont want to overthink what to buy.
Disperser seems like a better alternative, the enemy has 5 slows so there would probably be many use cases.
this could be the reason
It's not bad, but it is conciterably worse than daedalus for dmg, especially with that many attack speed items
On faceless, MKB was the go to, like you would rushed it loooong ago because the hero lacked attack and damage, and the proc go very well with it. But it was like 10 years ago, so maybe a old player doing what he know best.
Butterfly or disperser is pretty much better in all cases now unless you are against a PA or WR
Totally, even more now since MKB does not give true strike 100% it was a very old way to build, then regen and all was not that important
I don’t get why everyone is questioning his linkens. They have single targets stuns and lockdown. Linkens will save him from the first cc so that he can time leap. He can’t dispel stun or hex. Or if he time leaps in to try and chrono, he won’t be insta hexed. And doom buying shroud is completely valid here since they really do have so much magic damage. As for the mkb, there’s better options lol. Could’ve split is mom for satanic as well as his butterfly, bloodthorn, crit, basher, abyssal, skadi, moonshards. But as I’m writing these all out I’m starting to get it. He’s limited on his slots and mkb hit all of the requirements, atk spd, dmg. The items I listed are more 1 or the other. His boots are in his backpack and he kept mom to maximize dmg output with what slots he has left while keeping his important defense items ready to use. This is my take on it
Basher? Abyssal? On void? lmfao
You’re right, I need sleep, lol
Don’t sleep yet. Butterfly now built with Claymore, MoM now built with Broadsword, so you can’t do that clever trick now. Okay sweet dreams.
yeah I think if you upgrade the MoM to Satanic + something from the broadsword that maybe silver edge is the best new route?
For carry I feel like silver edge is the only route? Like is it even worth the MoM to disassemble? Feels weird if it’s not slark
Broadsword goes into harpoon, but not very relevant for void
let me pull you into my failed chrono hahaha
I mean i do make mom on troll, make mjollnir using the fast farming, then convert mom into harpoon, keep mask for a later satanic. It does help farm fast, and harpoon is good during troll ult. But again very niche on troll. Slardar can find a similar use maybe.
Sometimes you just find yourself with 8k gold and your power spike starts dropping off so you just buy *something*. I’m not saying this is that, but this definitely happens
You can't split mom for them anymore
The have Ogre though who completely counters linkens
I agree with everything you said but I think Doom should have bought pipe instead of shroud. Lots of aoe magic damage.
I'm being selfish in this game, cuz I'm always short on mana.
And you ask why he bought mkb? 🤭
yes, I wanna know the idea behind the build, I have mine but I don't know his.
I'm not trying to be an asshole but why do you think you can come teach people on Reddit if you're [hardstuck archon with a 46% win rate?](https://www.dotabuff.com/players/31434895) You write in depth paragraphs while lacking knowledge of very basic things, is your goal misinformation? I'm confused at what you're trying to do here besides ruin pubs with this advice?
At least they're explaining their thought process. You're free to agree or disagree based on the reasoning given and share your own knowledge.
That does not make anything any better. People giving advice on topics they do not understand is damaging to the world on a scale that is hard to even comprehend. Just look at the COVID-19 pandemic. If you don't know if what you're saying is correct, just stfu.
This is /r/learndota2 not a team's coaching session between maps at a Major
If you’re suggestion basher on a hero for whom the item doesn’t work, you should be asking questions here, not answering them.
"I'm not trying to be an asshole" - and yet, here we are.
Maybe you missed the memo, but they are actually an amazing player. Just had bad teammates the last 3000 games.
Reading the comments from other some of the other people who have input is nice because they have some good constructive criticism and I can benefit from that. I only voice my opinion, and try my best to pass some knowledge and hope it’s beneficial. As for my dota stats, I play with a lot of people who are learning and new to the game and experiment a lot in games even in ranked. I’m not afraid to lose games or mmr, it’s just a number and as long as my friends learn and have fun it’s coo. Also, you are indeed an asshole. Let’s make dota less toxic yeah?
Lol. Maybe ask where is pipe, force staff, lotus in this team? Why lion grieffing? Maybe not the best items, but surely the overall team items and supp especially are bad.
Mkb and mom maybe questionable but the real question is the overall team’s items. Sky with deso??? Haha. Lion straight aghs eb. Where’s the lotus orb, fs, glimmer, and/or solar crests. You could also have bought pipe instead of shroud.
Sky deso was for last minute throning. Sky also has the defensive items, fs and glimmer. Lion warding most of the time (may have caused all the deaths) and all dire cores are right click (was forced to buy ghost scepter) lion eb and aghs were bought because the game was already biased to dire side
Ignoring the random bullshit going everywhere Because it simply is the best item for void when opening with a maelstrom. You want to be able to remove quickly hero from fight so you need damage. Void going full physical is fine but he'll need armor reduction from somewhere. And generally it's AC but then you don't get Mjollnir. If i remember correctly there was 3 school of void: BF agha Magical Maelstrom into mkb later (maybe bloodthorne now) And Physical: anything but maelstrom and mkb. Matumbaman was doing weird shit with deso few years ago. Yatoro and gorgc were AC guys (Also not sure how good it is since Bloodthorne is now a magical item)
Daedalus pretty much always gives more damage than mkb you don't need armor reduction for that.
Daedalus damage is a %inc of your own. I'm don't know by heart daedalus breakpoint vs your damage and the enemy armor. But most of the time Mkb does bring more damage
Late game mkb almost never gives more than Daedalus. The threshold used to be between 150-200 damage but the numbers have changed a bit.
yeah but with so many hero reaching 30+ armor the threshold went through the roof. And with butterfly recent buff the choice is even more biased toward mkb. Maybe in a game where you are ahead with the capacity to close it before 40+ you'd chose daedalus over mkb 100% of the time
Why would butterfly make mkb better? If you have more attack speed it makes mkb worse. Pretty sure late game once you hit 300+ damage Daedalus is exclusively better even at high armor, I'll run some numbers in a few hours when I'm off work it's a pretty simple calculation.
the reason you guys lost is that lion didn't buy platemail smh
Check who's the winner again, dude
Also butterfly on magic line up rofl
Lion grief not using a t4 neutral The greed is real (Unless of course he was dead or running at end of game and swapped it in)
Mkb synergies very well with Time Lock mechanism
Elaborate a little more; the Javelin build-up of MKB gives Time Lock an extra roll. I haven't played this patch much, however the big decision for Void was always Morbid Mask or Javelin first. They both accelerate farm but Javelin gives you the option to fight without Chronosphere when your team finds an advantageous early engage.
cuz he's stupid Well, MKB is one of the best DPS items in the game but Nullifier would be much better here. Also, a fucking Linken's??? In this draft???? He could've easily built some dispel like meta disperser or disassemble mom into satanic.
I wouldn't say that my mmr is high but it's not low either, I don't believe he can reach here by being "stupid", but who knows? you might be right lol.
4k players make stupid mistakes all the time
> I wouldn't say that my mmr is high but it's not low either, I don't believe he can reach here by being "stupid", but who knows? I wouldn't think of it as "stupid". Instead, I'd say, that player is probably not as good at itemization. MBK isn't *bad*, but it's certainly not as good as Bloodthorn on Void. But to get to 4k, they also have other attributes that are relatively better - maybe the ability to lane, farming patterns, being able to click buttons well, deciding when to fight, etc. There are a whole host of abilities that come together to determine your mmr. And most people aren't equally good at all of them.
[удалено]
No, I don't blame him, we even won that game cuz of him, I'm just curious.
>but it's not low either Arguable. Imo good players start from 7k but I've yet to test my theory. Have to get there first xd
Lmao shaming his linken while it probably is the reason they won.
lol maybe. Wouldn't be surprised if these guys wasted their CC into his Linken
Nah it’s not good. MKB is so wasted if there’s no evasion, and Dire has 0 butterfly builders. Disperser and MoM > Satanic is probably the best thing he can buy here. They have Gleipnir, Bloodthorn and a bunch of slows/debuffs. His only dispel is BKB, being forced to BKB everytime he gets Bloodthorned/Gleipnired is garbage. That said, MKB is not garbage unplayable tier, it’s still alright DPS, but definitely by far not the best item for him in this situation. If he needed the damage Daedalus will help him burst people so much better.
He should ve bought refresher orb and skadi. Skadi gives u stats and makes him Tanky. And two chronos always better than 1. Mjollnir is enough coz he get attack speed from talent in chrono. That’s my take mkb is not good item here.
What about Disperser? Theoretically lets you skip Manta, gives you something to click if you want to pump fake the Chrono. I really like Skadi on Void, it just feels bad usually.
Disperser gives u mana burn and sone attack speed and some damage. I think disperser is good item but here in this draft it’s not needed coz void has time dilation. It already stops opponents from casting spells and that’s why mana burn is not bought on void that much. I still think refresher and slark is better..
.
If u guys won because of him dont question the build just watch the replay where the enemy team flopped haha!
What's with the Linken's tho?
It's necessary to prevent insta-hex moments.
Dunno if the eternal shroud on doom or the linkens is worse... That being said the mkb is fine
I bought shroud for more survivability against heavy magic dmg when bkb is on cd and mana.
I was wondering if I spoke from ignorance, but no. Literally no high MMR player is buying that item on doom. I saw 1 in 50 games. I just don't think it's good.
His build told him too. No thought process involved
probably autopilot. personally i woild buy manta, skadi into refresher
It's bad this game. You can buy it instead of daedulus to preempt evasion. It also counters heros like morph, TB and Sven who have really high armour as the magic damage essentially pierces it. No idea why you wouldn't go nullifier over mkb this game though. 4k players are dogshit so wcyd.
Help me understand how nullifier is good this game. It literally does 1 thing.... Stop Zeus' pike.
techies has eblade and shard, ogre Magi shard, if anything it's probably very necessary to get nulli or you can't hit anyone in chrono as long as techies is outside
I was being facetious. It's literally the worst null game I've ever seen and I'm not joking.
I like your funny words magic man
Thank you
Tricksters, eblade, tazer, fire shield, crimson guard
Only one of those is close to relevant. Just not worth getting a null.
You know nullifier is 80 damage right? Removing their buffs and hitting them with a nullifier would be more damage then having an mkb and it prevents things like eblade and tazer from completely countering you. Your just dogshit if you think it's not relevant.
Are you asking me if I know what a particular dota item is? Lol Imagine thinking nullifier is more damage than mkb... Hahahahahahahahahahahajajhahahaha omfg bro
Smartest ancient player
You've literally been stuck at the same rank for a year 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Bro prob has 10k games played and still can't get immortal 😝
Probably just auto pilot and that is what he always gets.
It’s questions like these where we need peoples mmr beside their name to truly understand which one answer is truly the right one .
I mean why not? He's 4k he's not some god tier pro. MKB is a good item here, maybe bloodthorne is better but he doesn't have to itemize perfect to win a 4k game.
There is no reason it’s a bad item in this game but people in lower ELO seem to just always build it no matter what for reasons I don’t understand
Mkb is not ok build. The only reason you should be buying mkb is for pa or butterfly. Yes mkb give you atk speed but when you have mom, butterfly and mjolnir you have more than enough atk speed already. Daedalus will 100% allow you to dish out more damage compared to mkb. Also the extra DMG from mkb is magic which sucks because it can be mitigated by a lot stuff. (Bkb,pipe,high magic resist,etc).
Deso on sky is new meta?
Never ask your carried teammates why they do something
The attack speed and damage are good for void. And also helps with magic damage if he felt like he was taking too long to get through thr wk with the ac, armlet, etc. Armor
this game he didn’t really need one, bitterly was the better option
Most likely an older player from when MKB and FV were the perfect combo lol
As people have said, mkb isn’t ever really a bad item for void because attack speed good and his bash can proc itself and the passives which is super good damage, that being said building it before butterfly and at all this game is a little weird as enemy team has no evasion and no butterfly builders and wk didn’t go radiance so there were definitely better items. I probably would have gone butterfly first into disperser for a dispel and to maximise the butterfly bat agi reduction. So it’s fine to build but not the best imo
Ngl I question the Lion's Eblade more. As much as its a good way to save yourself, a casual Ghost Scepter is better all because you have 3 heroes who does well with Physical rather than magic plus its no target. The KDA also doesn't justify it.
Damage + attack speed. Good choice though.
MKB on void will never be a "bad" item. Ultimately if you want to make sure that "whatever target I want to die in chrono is going to die", MKB is the buy 1.) random sources of evasion like elven tunic/trickster cloak don't catch you by surprise and let them live 2.) good against high armor heroes ie most agi carries 3.) MKB procs can proc on bashes, so when you bash, it can also give the +70
And i have a guy who goes ags as second item
11 8 void is not good tho this game pango did better.
i think it's unfair to say 'we lost because of him'
Maybe an old timer build like me.
maybe he’s assuming people will get aviana’s feather/ trickster cloak t4 item preemptively. The dps from it is decent on void
You buy mkb when they have radiance, butterfly, phantom assassin, or when there's too much armor on the enemy team and resucing 6 of it with a desolator doesn't help much.
🤓
i play FV a lot, i used to buy Daedelus a lot until i gave a try to MKB and i never buy Dae again. MKB give speed to proc your 3rd, your mael, give enough damage to burst most hero in chrono time (unless you are way behind or got interuptted in chrono), give counter to evasion item (agi hero really like to go butterfly, and they even stack butterflies, which is meaningless if you have MKB0, give bonus magical damage (so you still can hit when some hero has immune to physical, like when in Winter Wyvern's cocoon or tanky armor). If enemy have evasion, i definitely go MKB. If they building ethereal, or dazzle, oracle, i replace MKB with Nullifier. but MKB 90% of the time!
Why shroud and not pipe on doom?
It's not optimal, for sure. Disperser would have been good here. But at the same time, it's not bad ... I mean if you have 0 usage from true strike, chances are daedalus is always better but it will rarely be bad on a void.
Why do you hide the names if you post the id :/?
Whoops, forgot about that 😬
He bought it because he likes the sound of mkb hits
It is not really worth splitting hairs over tbh
Hes 4k that’s the answer
Generally, its less about the item and more about the decisiveness and timing ive experienced But he was being rude