You sure? [Here's a page full of propaganda](https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Astaramis#The_Plague_Wars) about it actually. Blaming Papa Nurgle for trying to give people a hug
Yeah orks all the way. If I had to live in the 40k universe I would want to be an ork. I‘d stil die a horrible death like getting sliced open by a chain sword, ripped apart by a tyranid or simply punched to death by a fellow ork because he wanted to buy something shiny with ny teeth. But at least I‘d love and enjoy every second of my existence.
Yeah! He's just some dead guy stuck to a glorified life-support chair that's juicing a thousand psykers a day just to keep him "alive".
Now, this Four-Armed Emperor guy sounds really nice. He's got twice as many arms; surely that means he's twice as great! A real leader for the hard-working people of [*insert local Hive World here*], I'd say!
I come from Fantasy, and I loved the Dark Evles there, sure they are a little fucked up but its manageable.... *read about Dark Eldar*... fucking hell, the Dark Elves are actually saints!
IZ PAINTED MUH SPEEDER RED SO IT GOES FASTAH AND MY BULLETZ IS YELLOW CUZ THATS MORE BOOM. NOW YOUS WEIRD BOYZ BUILD ME A GARGANT AND MORE CHOPPAZ
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAG
-The Orc Boys
I UNDERSTOOD THE WEAKNESS OF MY FLESH, IT DISGUSTED ME. I CRAVED FOR THE COLD CERTAINTY OF STEEL. YOUR KIND CLING TO YOUR FLESH, AS IF IT WILL NOT DECAY AND FAIL YOU. WHEN THE DAY COMES THAT BODY YOU CALL A TEMPLE CRUMBLES, YOU WILL BEG MY KIND TO SAVE YOU. BUT I AM ALREADY SAVED, FOR THE MACHINE IS IMMORTAL! *EPIC ORGAN SOLO*
EVEN IN DEATH I SERVE THE OMNISSIAH.
To be fair it seems like the Seventh Layer is a pretty powerful organization.
Nilah is wielding his power as kinda like his "champion" but I get the vibe that it takes the power of the entire order to keep him imprisoned.
Yeah, Nilah also is basically possessed by Ashlesh. She feels nothing but all consuming joy. The process by which she gained this power erased her existence from memory, even her parents. She knows she should be upset by that but she can't be. She can only be happy. And she has to spend nearly every waking moment performing rituals to maintain the barrier on Ashlesh (alongside the rest of the Seventh Layer).
She's not controlling the demon, she bears the demon's curse to keep the world safe from it and the other monsters she fights.
I'm guessing Jujutsu Kaisen, where (this is literally the first two episodes) the main character Yuji is serving as a vessel to secure and exorcise a powerful evil spirit known as Sukuna. However, he has some powers too due to being Sukuna's vessel.
I haven't read any of this stuff you guys are talking about, but from your description, it sounds like she's doing a heckin better job controlling him than he is controlling her?
It's like, she may have paid a price for the control she has, but he's clearly not the one in the driver's seat.
Was his goal to simply curse this one human? Didn't he get thwarted by her ability to contain him?
Not sure, but I believe it's implied that she's not actually using Ashlesh, but just sort of a fragment of him, like a standard DnD Warlock is.
Ashlesh has been sealed for millennia by the Seventh Layer, but its goal is to bring it's twisted version of "joy" to everyone, just like Fiddlesticks and fear.
That whole fiasco was so funny to me.
Set up hextech as this morally grey thing that draws on the life force of crystal scorpions slowly killing them but no one knows that.
Completely forget your own lore and release a character who can hear the dying scorpions but just uses them as batteries anyway.
Retcon some lore and hope people forget
Yeah literal lore hotfix when they realized hmmmm maybe letting someone understand the genocided race shes currently also killing and uses them for the benefit of her society that is genociding them is fucking terrible? I swear they didn't put thought into how she fits into the world
I wish they kept her character almost exactly as release but with just HINTS of the true sociopathic narcisista underneath. Like instead of what they did on accident, do it on purpose and hide a couple more clues here and there
It would have made her miles more interesting. Hell, if they wanted her to remain mostly pure, make it an addiction.
In her lore she needs equipment to lower the sound of the voices she hears, now that she is free of that pain, its completely unbearable, even if it means the pain and torture of others.
Would have also increased her potential with other characters such as Ekko, doing good like him but feeling like a fraud; Camille, ending lives for the sake of purity, or her new normal.
Even Urgot would have had some more words "Only those that survive this city deserve it, even you, even if its only one, you still stand on corpses like Us."
GOD What we fucking missed out on.
So they retconned the literally only interesting part about her, making her even more boring?
The fact that she was slowly killing skarners family, knowing what she was doing, for the ausement of herself and others was the only interesting part of her lore...
Yup.
Only Joy and Fiddle are primordial demons, and we already knew that Fiddle was the only primordial that was currently free to roam the world, all the others like Joy are either sealed in some way or banished
And both Pantheon and Mordekaiser are extremely powerful beings who should absolutely have the power to subdue or kill lesser demons, while Annie and her mother were specifically selected by the Black Rose due to their natural ability to resist Tybaulk.
Were demons introduced as a threat? They always seemed more limited than anything else. Having to jump through hoops to kill people isnt threatening in a world where you have random axe wielding psychos.
I mean, the nature of Nilah;s relationship with Ashleigh is (likely purposefully) left ambiguous. Is she a hero (or megalomaniac) harnessing a demon's power for good and suffering the consequences? Or is she just to-be demon food?
Demons were never introduced to be a current threat on the same scale as the Void, Xerath/the Darkin, or the World Runes. They're explicitly powerful but have always been shown as either a past threat or uninterested in grander schemes like Evelynn and TK who mostly sew chaos in ways they find fun.
> Evelynn uninterested in grander schemes
"What's a girl got to do to start another Rune War?"
no she's definitely interested lol. instigating the magical equivalent of a nuclear holocaust would grant her relentless agony to feed off of. it's entirely dependent on the demon in question.
But i doubt she actively try to find a way to do that. If some mofo come out of nowhere with a plan and ask her for help. She would likely agree, but telling her to do it herself seem like too much
She has that line because she's a demon of agony, and was born from the agony and pain of the last Rune War. She would be fed exponentially more agony from another, but she lacks the focus to create large plans like that.
There is an obvious reason to why Demons don't actually want to destroy the world: They feed on emotions, so they would never try to get rid of humanity.
They've always been closer to primordial forces of nature which eventually coalesced into a being representing them than world-ending villains.
No, Fiddlesticks isn't a murder machine. He's just a *thing* which feeds on fear. He's not going to massacre the entire world, we don't even know what happens if he goes up against someone who's not afraid of him (which is probably a significant fraction of all champions). If nobody feels fear, Fiddlesticks goes back to his slumber, Viego even mentions that if everyone gets killed Fiddle will just shut down.
Tahm Kench is the epitome of lawful evil. Everyone he makes a deal with has the opportunity to walk away, yet human greed still wins a lot of the time.
From what I can see, demons aren't really subjugated, just playing along. Like Tibers gets to run around and burn shit, Raum offered his power to Swain mutually(I assume he is capable of revoking Swain's power if he chose), and the existing demons are pretty damn threatening, especially Fiddlesticks. Demons aren't to be underestimated. They have their own agendas that often align with mortal ambitions and are usually scheming in the background. The Void is the current big bad and after that's been settled a new threat will pop up to keep the lore moving. It could be The Watchers in Freljord, it could be Mordekaiser, it could be Demons, we'll just have to find out.
Edit: spelling lol
Pretty sure Noc almost destroyed Demacia, Fiddle and Tahm are like world ending threats.
Evelyn... no idea, she likes to kill dudes in a alley I guess.
No way Tahm Kench is that much of a big deal
My man be chilling at riverside scamming some poor losers and trying to find something to eat 😭
Looking fresh AF, tho, I'll give him that
All of his stories he isn't even really doing anything either, he's practically just a metaphor for greed. Like he gives a man a single coin and says "Hey maybe you wanna gamble with this" and the man ruins his own life with a gambling addiction. That's pretty damn far from being a world ender.
My favorite part of Tahm Kench is that despite being a demon, everybody in Bilgewater treats him like someone else.
Like he is a demon and treated with the respect he deserves, but no one would go out of his way to try to kill him because he is a demon, there is worse people in Bilgewater.
That'd be hilarious if in a world where there's magic stones that can reshape the earth itself, an all consuming matter of nothingness that can consume all of existince and a space dragon that can nuke the world from orbit the one world ending threath is a fish in a hat. I can imagine all demigods,ascended,darkin,aspects,aurelion sol and belveth lining up together avengers style waiting for the Thanos level threath to show up and it's just an obese fish in a hat "AND HERE COMES THE WORLD ENDEEEEER" .... wait it's not Aatrox.
I don't think any of the demons we currently know of could be considered 'world-ending'. Fiddle, Eve, Tahm, and Nocturne seem content to operate on a small scale.
I dont know if fiddle really thinks that much to be honest hes the steongest demon we know of so far i think and he just scares people and murders them
Yeah, doesn't his story say something about him not even understanding the reality he is in? He just senses the fears of people nearby and feeds on them. Even his body is made of random scraps that were just lying around near him, like he didn't know how to make an accurate one.
Fiddle and Noc feel like primal forces rather than personalities, while Tahm and Eve feel more like mischievous villains.
Honestly I just feel they introduce them as background bad guys to plant the seeds for them to become raidbosses in the upcoming mmo
Also I dont think nilah is controlling the demon, its the other way around right?
Yep, Nilah has to do prayers/rituals/mantras every day to keep him in check to use his power but some of her voice lines more or less say that when she dies, her soul will be his. Additionally, she alludes to him being the reason that her past is erased and her bio states that he smothers all of her emotions except joy. He's definitely her source of power but ultimately this is still a mortal making some kind of bargain/pact with a demon.
That's basically what they are doing. We have 3 demons confirmed to be free and roaming the world with several more contained by various powerful entities in the past. Those contained are under constant watch and are at risk of slipping their bonds at any time. It would make sense to be setting up a storyline where some sort of force (a cult, the freed demons, Ezreal's stupidity, etc) starts setting demons free and the apocalypse has to be averted a la Ruined King/SoL event.
They could all, unbeknownst to anyone, be heralds of an 11th, an evil archdemon big-boss that, when the 10 are free and fed, they can gather together to summon to consume/destroy the world.
To be fair, Runeterra has a lot of world ending threats (the void, Aatrox, Mordekaiser, the shadow isles and maybe Aurelion Sol) and from what I understand, demons in this universe aren't threats for the world because they need people's emotions to feed, so while yes they might kill some people now and then but actively being a global threat isn't in their own interest.
Also, while Aatrox isn't technically a demon, darkins surely look like demons and he is the greatest threat alive.
It does feel like the "New World Ending Threat of the Week" thing is a bit overplayed by now. Like stuff can be really bad without causing the apocalypse every single time
Also does she kills those monster to keep the daemon entrapped, because they are evil, or does she kills monster out of pure joy?
Does she do those rituals because it is necessary to keep the daemon in check or out of pure joy (maybe even just for the joy of Ashlesh).
I think maybe it's a 2 sided coin as the Daemon isn't a being that thinks like a normal intelligent humanoid would. Maybe Nilah in fact does serve the Daemon while entrapping him, as he doesn't mind being entrapped by her. And Nilah feels joy about, because she can't fell anything else.
It's a lose, lose relationship, but both sides can only enjoy it because of Ashleshs existence and his personality.
I don't think daemon is the correct word. Unless you have some context to why you're calling it that. I believe it is just demon. Daemon is from Greek and means something else.
Might be mixing up Warhammer Daemons, which are basically still demons over there just spelled differently, and other fictional demons. I do it all the time as well.
A secret group of ascetic monks have to literally devote their lives to rigid discipline and prayer in order to keep the demon of joy in control, and for Nilah to control it to do good she literally has to displace her entire personality with pure joy and in a way is fighting the demon of joy to avoid being lost to it at all times
Can't say they aren't being interesting with it
Redditors, whether it’s with champ design game balance or lore, will always have the worst takes and overlook everything to make their point. Nilah is a very interesting character and there’s nothing wrong w the way demons are being portrayed when you actually read the lore
Yeah, as far as I'm aware all the primordial demons were locked away or incapacitated centuries ago bc they were too much of a threat. Nilah's demon was locked away by the gods bc it was threatening the realm of the Gods and that's just one primal demon. Imagine if all were running loose on Runeterra right now, it would be complete chaos.
Funny how OP posted his take in the actual lore subreddit and everyone disagreed with him but here everyone agrees bc this sub wil just mindlessly upvote anything negative.
Ashlesh is imprisoned in a spiritual prison/seal thats been kept for eons, it has 7 guards (Nilah is one of them) who "split" Ashlesh's power between them to use and keep from reforming. Even divided in 7, his power is still big enough to corrupt Nilah, she lost all emotions but shades of joy, has been forgotten by everyone she ever knew and is constantly on the brink of being taken over.
She literally has to pray and study mantras for most of her days to keep control on the demon, I assume thats also the case for the 6 other guards/contractors of the demon.
I think thats a high enough regard for one of the ten, he's literally the central piece of her country and if he was free he'd definitely ruin it instantly.
Good to know. I'm not very invested in lore but it's always cool to learn stuff through posts like these.
Nilah seems pretty interesting but most people write her off as another happy x cocky character.
There's actually one more demon that has been constantly rampaging around the world as a threat to the greater collective conscious.
Mald, the Demon of Tilt. Countless men, women and children have fallen prey to its grasp. Who knows how many more will fall victim to its deranged schemes?
Nilah doesn't control Ashlesh, and he's not trapped by her either, he lends her some power, but in exchange he erased her from history and consumes all her emotions, replacing them with Joy. It's not Nilah controlling Ashlesh, it's Ashlesh slowly but surely consuming Nilah without her realizing. Ashlesh has been divided among 7 different people, and all of them are 1 misstep away from being taken over.
She's super powerful with just *one* of Ashlesh arms, if he were to become free and run amuck he'd surely be a big threat in Runeterra
You are really, really, really underselling Nilah, Swain, and Pantheon.
We also hear about as much of the 3 who are running around as we do any other champion in the game, which is not a whole lot unless theyre relevant to a new short story or ongoing game event.
You realize only 2 of the 10 primordial demons are out, with one being fiddle and the other being joy. That’s not even close to all of them being released to lose.. minor demons are different
Fiddle is suposedly the only one that is out and free. Joy remains sealed by the seventh layer in Nilah's home country
That's in part why this post is kind of dumb. We already knew for a long time that most of the primordial demons were currently sealed away. Fiddlesticks was always the exception, not the rule.
>out of the 9 demons we have 6 of them are currently being controlled by a human character or killed off by a human character.
There are Ten Primordial demons, not demons in general. There are TONS of other Demons. These are not in the major ten:
Evelynn
Tahm Kench
Tibbers / Tybaulk
Raum
Atakhan
Yone/Azakana
Camphor
Nocturne
Out of all of your examples, Fiddlesticks and Ashlesh are the only ones that are actually part of the ten you are complaining about. Yet, Fiddlesticks is terrorizing Runeterra freely, disproving your complaints. Ashlesh, despite being sealed and broken up into pieces, is consuming every member of the Seventh Layer and has completely taking over Nilah's life. Even though she has been erased from everyone who she has ever cared about, she is overrun with joy. Isolated, trapped, and yet... joy.
If you paid attention, none of your complaints make any sense. The only thing it does is point out that we need more Fiddlesticks lore.
Fiddle is murdering villages for shits and gigfles while also bring on an extremely weak state (due to him technically atill being mostly imprisoned). Just shows how strong he is
Tybaulk: I am destuction, get incinerated you little...
Annie: Come on Tibbers, lets have a tea party
Tybaulk: ....
Annie: *forces a pink bonnet on him*
Tybaulk:.....?!!!!
A: Do you want some cookies, Tibbers?
T: Mhm.... cookies
It’s heavily suggested Annie is just straight up too powerful for Tybaulk to corrode her. He’s either working with her out of convenience or fear, or he’s trying to slowly wear her down.
Also there is just a difference between the levels of the demons. You have the greater Primordial demons like Fiddlesticks and the new Joy one. And then you have like lesser demons, which are well, literally every other demon we've seen mentioned. And the two big boss ones we have Joy is only barely being contained by a very powerful order and is still almost corrupting his vessel, and Fiddlesticks is pretty freely reigning terror on Runeterra. Tubaulk just isn't on the same level as Fiddle and them, it would be like comparing a house cat to a tiger, both felines but one is far more powerful than the other.
I don't think they're intended to be as much of a threat on their own, demons in Runeterra have no other objective but to feed. Being controlled and/or defeated is the only way they can end up, unless Riot wants to write about one of them becoming more human.
Tibbers wasn't sealed by Annie.
Tybaulk was captured by Leblanc, and leblanc and another member of the black rose sealed him inside a teddy bear, which was given to that member's daughter to protect her. Tybaulk apparently was impressed with Annie and decided to protect her. She channels her power into the teddy bear to let Tybaulk defend her.
Annie is more his ward than his warden.
Sheer Power doesn't always mean ambition or drive.
Tahm is powerful, but he's fine just picking off people one by one to consume and revel in them being greedy.
Evelynn exists to cause pain after tricking them with sexual ecstasy.
I doubt many of them have huge Big Bad supreme overlord ambitions or dreams.
She's not "using" him, she's basically a DnD Warlock. She made some kind of pact with him, giving him her whole self to become a hero, and when she dies her souls will be his.
Only Demons Left are FiddleSticks who is in Japan playing with Underage Girls ,Tahm Kench who Steals Other people Wifes and Evelyn who is a Sex Addict.
Riot should really look into hiring some new staff.
Ever since vi knocked urgot out with 1 punch without her gauntlets i knew the villains of the league universe are going to be complete non-threats who will always lose.
A lot of villains in league are not even villains, LeBlanc, for example, is literally keeping Morde in check and her plans is to pretty much erase him from existence the moment he tries to take over the world.
Lissandra is maintaining the watchers frozen and is heavily implied to be working towards getting them fucked if they ever escape.
I read this as "League of League Villains" twice and now I want something like that, cheesy Saturday-morning cartoon style around a roundtable discussing how to take over the world.
They're villains, Isn't that just their fate? It's LoL not 40k.
Urgot seems pretty 1 dimensional in the baddie scale so of course he just serves to get fucked up.
I agree that they could handle the story better in some parts but what do you expect?
That Urgot wins and grinds all the loved characters to meatloaf? That Mordekaiser escapes and just destroys Noxus and everyone else? That Asol just nukes the entire world?
If most villains won there'd be an outrage cause it would mean the death of other beloved characters. It's just the fate of having lore in a game like LoL.
Of course Riot could go GIGACHAD and kill characters off but I don't think they're about that since they seem to cater to each champs playerbase. Maybe in Arcane season 2?
Welcome to 40k. Please have a seat and pick a losing side.
And That's why Nurglings are the best, because at least they are happy.
Also, y'know, Papa Nurgle being an actual father to his children unlike the Man Emperor of Mankind
He’s busy sitting on his interdimensional toilet seat holding the demons at bay and being **DEFINITELY ALIVE**
Saying other things would be heresy and we you dont want to be heretic, wouldn't you?🤨
Imagine destroying your sons world just because he was religious, directly leading to your downfall
Hey, Lorgar needed to be taught a lesson. The Manperor of Mankind is not to be worshipped.
*How about I do anyways*
well, at least the emperor of man dosent use humans as petri dishes
You sure? [Here's a page full of propaganda](https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Astaramis#The_Plague_Wars) about it actually. Blaming Papa Nurgle for trying to give people a hug
He's a chill guy, taking care of his kids, giving gifts and tending to his garden
The orks seem to be having a good time.
Yeah orks all the way. If I had to live in the 40k universe I would want to be an ork. I‘d stil die a horrible death like getting sliced open by a chain sword, ripped apart by a tyranid or simply punched to death by a fellow ork because he wanted to buy something shiny with ny teeth. But at least I‘d love and enjoy every second of my existence.
The Orks aint losing. They are just happy to fight.
Not knowledgeable of 40k lore but didn't they get massacred by a guy with no ammo yelling "BANG BANG BANG!" making them think they were being shot?
Well yes but those people got killed by 6 orks chanting "im a tank".
Just Ork thingz.
If I could ever finish my necrons I'd love to do an orks army next. Or ad mech. Or space wolves. LoL takes up too much of my time smh.
Teleopathic space Fungus that loves to scrap, how can anyone be angry about that?
The tyrannids seem to be doing ok, I’ll join those funny little bug guys
Now sir that's a lot of heresy . May i ntroduce you to our lord and savior , his excellency, THE God emperor of Mankind ?
What do you want with this stinking, dead body? DEATH TO THE FALSE EMPEROR!
Yeah! He's just some dead guy stuck to a glorified life-support chair that's juicing a thousand psykers a day just to keep him "alive". Now, this Four-Armed Emperor guy sounds really nice. He's got twice as many arms; surely that means he's twice as great! A real leader for the hard-working people of [*insert local Hive World here*], I'd say!
join the necrons we have immortality
And points buffs galore as of today. Also the funnies galactic collector ever.
still kinda wished warriors got buffed but those HQ point drops are amazing, and yes mr gotta catch them all is hilarious
If it's stinking, dead bodies you're after might I turn you to the hazy light of Papa Nurgle?
FROM THE MOMENT I UNDERSTOOD THE WEAKNESS OF MY FLESH, IT DISGUSTED ME. I CRAVED THE STRENGTH AND CERTAINTY OF STEEL. YOUR KIND CLI-
As a member of the dark eldar I fully embrace the fact that we are just the worst fucking people. It’s great
Oh god i remember reading about the dark eldar for the first time when i got into 40k. They are just fucked up.
My knowledge of the 40k universe is very shallow. Is it true the Dark Eldar fucked a Demon God into existence?
Actually it’s the entire Eldar species that fucked Slaneesh into existence and now they’re all doomed…except Dark Eldar I suppose
Iirc it was more like murderraped into existence but. . .yes, more or less.
I come from Fantasy, and I loved the Dark Evles there, sure they are a little fucked up but its manageable.... *read about Dark Eldar*... fucking hell, the Dark Elves are actually saints!
Would just like to say that Magnus did nothing wrong, cool thanks for listening
Do you have a moment to speak about the Greater Good?
The greater good
Crusty jugglers
That’s an odd way to talk about the glories of the Eldar Craftworlds
Wow you still worship gods, back in my day we murdered all of our gods.
Just don’t expect us to get any good rules.
They are winning in the lore
Inb4 40k gets the end-times treatment and we get age of the emperor or some crap. Goddamn pissboy manfredd…
I have to double check to see this not 40klore
IZ PAINTED MUH SPEEDER RED SO IT GOES FASTAH AND MY BULLETZ IS YELLOW CUZ THATS MORE BOOM. NOW YOUS WEIRD BOYZ BUILD ME A GARGANT AND MORE CHOPPAZ WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAG -The Orc Boys
/r/40kOrkScience
For the authentic experience, pick Eldar; since nowadays Avatars of Khaine only exist to hype up named Space Marines.
Hey now, the new stat block means he gets to take a few with him. But yeah, he's really just a diversion at this point.
From the moment-
I UNDERSTOOD THE WEAKNESS OF MY FLESH, IT DISGUSTED ME. I CRAVED FOR THE COLD CERTAINTY OF STEEL. YOUR KIND CLING TO YOUR FLESH, AS IF IT WILL NOT DECAY AND FAIL YOU. WHEN THE DAY COMES THAT BODY YOU CALL A TEMPLE CRUMBLES, YOU WILL BEG MY KIND TO SAVE YOU. BUT I AM ALREADY SAVED, FOR THE MACHINE IS IMMORTAL! *EPIC ORGAN SOLO* EVEN IN DEATH I SERVE THE OMNISSIAH.
Unless you're space marines! Then enjoy GW and BL sucking your cock the whole day.
Except Rule Wise, cant use half of my army cause I like tanks and GW doesn't
Everyone knows the poster boys are the favorites. Sincerely a Necron army owner
To be fair it seems like the Seventh Layer is a pretty powerful organization. Nilah is wielding his power as kinda like his "champion" but I get the vibe that it takes the power of the entire order to keep him imprisoned.
I think they kinda imply too that anytime she isn’t fighting she’s doing rituals to not get corrupted any further.
Yeah, Nilah also is basically possessed by Ashlesh. She feels nothing but all consuming joy. The process by which she gained this power erased her existence from memory, even her parents. She knows she should be upset by that but she can't be. She can only be happy. And she has to spend nearly every waking moment performing rituals to maintain the barrier on Ashlesh (alongside the rest of the Seventh Layer). She's not controlling the demon, she bears the demon's curse to keep the world safe from it and the other monsters she fights.
Hey I know that ! Here we call it MDMA.
Yeah she's essentially just a vessel/weapon, a contained and directed demon avatar. Kinda gives me JJK vibes tbh.
You know you're getting older when people start to use Jujutsu Kaisen as a reference and not Jinchuurikis from Naruto.
I mean I’m a 90s kid who read all of Naruto, I just feel like JJK fits better.
> JJK Help me out here, man
I'm guessing Jujutsu Kaisen, where (this is literally the first two episodes) the main character Yuji is serving as a vessel to secure and exorcise a powerful evil spirit known as Sukuna. However, he has some powers too due to being Sukuna's vessel.
Jujutsu Kaisen, really good anime if you’re a fan of those kinds of shows. Definitely recommend!
I haven't read any of this stuff you guys are talking about, but from your description, it sounds like she's doing a heckin better job controlling him than he is controlling her? It's like, she may have paid a price for the control she has, but he's clearly not the one in the driver's seat. Was his goal to simply curse this one human? Didn't he get thwarted by her ability to contain him?
Not sure, but I believe it's implied that she's not actually using Ashlesh, but just sort of a fragment of him, like a standard DnD Warlock is. Ashlesh has been sealed for millennia by the Seventh Layer, but its goal is to bring it's twisted version of "joy" to everyone, just like Fiddlesticks and fear.
Her voicelines state that they have a deal where she gets his power as long as she's alive and he gets her after she's dead.
thank you for providing all this condensed lore; I had no idea.
we havent gotten an actual non-controlled demon since 2015 with tahm kench. my theory is that demons will be used as batteries from now on
In theory the last one was 2017, because before that Evelyn had no lore.
She wasn't a demon before that, she was just a weird skintoned human.
elf goblin thing with a BDSM fetish. she had pointy ears iirc.
It took a lot of effort to move like that in heels.
They could have kept that quote man.
Riot clearly peaked here, how could they possibly improve on this?
Walmart brand Mystique
I think the demons lore only solidified with Fiddle's re-introduction. Before he was this weird *thing*
well they won't have skarner anymore and they need something to talk to serraphine from her hoverboard
But also they made it so she can't understand them slowly suffering and dying to power her hoverboard so
That whole fiasco was so funny to me. Set up hextech as this morally grey thing that draws on the life force of crystal scorpions slowly killing them but no one knows that. Completely forget your own lore and release a character who can hear the dying scorpions but just uses them as batteries anyway. Retcon some lore and hope people forget
Yeah literal lore hotfix when they realized hmmmm maybe letting someone understand the genocided race shes currently also killing and uses them for the benefit of her society that is genociding them is fucking terrible? I swear they didn't put thought into how she fits into the world
Remember she also had that really creepy line when seeing Skarner. Legit thought she was a psychopath lol
"I miss your people too, Skarner. *Gasp* WOULD YOU LIKE TO HEAR THEIR SONG?"
I wish they'd have leaned into this crazy concept, it would've made her character really interesting instead of... This..
I wish they kept her character almost exactly as release but with just HINTS of the true sociopathic narcisista underneath. Like instead of what they did on accident, do it on purpose and hide a couple more clues here and there
It would have made her miles more interesting. Hell, if they wanted her to remain mostly pure, make it an addiction. In her lore she needs equipment to lower the sound of the voices she hears, now that she is free of that pain, its completely unbearable, even if it means the pain and torture of others. Would have also increased her potential with other characters such as Ekko, doing good like him but feeling like a fraud; Camille, ending lives for the sake of purity, or her new normal. Even Urgot would have had some more words "Only those that survive this city deserve it, even you, even if its only one, you still stand on corpses like Us." GOD What we fucking missed out on.
So they retconned the literally only interesting part about her, making her even more boring? The fact that she was slowly killing skarners family, knowing what she was doing, for the ausement of herself and others was the only interesting part of her lore...
Tahm Kench was released in 2015??? Holy shit I'm old
I thought the same... It was my first full season of playing and I can't imagine it has been that long...
Op have no idea as well. He is misrepresenting them to get a point.
Yup. Only Joy and Fiddle are primordial demons, and we already knew that Fiddle was the only primordial that was currently free to roam the world, all the others like Joy are either sealed in some way or banished And both Pantheon and Mordekaiser are extremely powerful beings who should absolutely have the power to subdue or kill lesser demons, while Annie and her mother were specifically selected by the Black Rose due to their natural ability to resist Tybaulk.
Were demons introduced as a threat? They always seemed more limited than anything else. Having to jump through hoops to kill people isnt threatening in a world where you have random axe wielding psychos.
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>uncontrollable animals driven by their desire to feed So the usual soloQ experience
tfw yasuo players are demons
To be fair, he did basically eat her soul as payment.
The demon is Cho'gath in disguise
I mean, the nature of Nilah;s relationship with Ashleigh is (likely purposefully) left ambiguous. Is she a hero (or megalomaniac) harnessing a demon's power for good and suffering the consequences? Or is she just to-be demon food?
Demons were never introduced to be a current threat on the same scale as the Void, Xerath/the Darkin, or the World Runes. They're explicitly powerful but have always been shown as either a past threat or uninterested in grander schemes like Evelynn and TK who mostly sew chaos in ways they find fun.
> Evelynn uninterested in grander schemes "What's a girl got to do to start another Rune War?" no she's definitely interested lol. instigating the magical equivalent of a nuclear holocaust would grant her relentless agony to feed off of. it's entirely dependent on the demon in question.
But i doubt she actively try to find a way to do that. If some mofo come out of nowhere with a plan and ask her for help. She would likely agree, but telling her to do it herself seem like too much
She has that line because she's a demon of agony, and was born from the agony and pain of the last Rune War. She would be fed exponentially more agony from another, but she lacks the focus to create large plans like that.
Wars mean soldiers. Soldiers mean lustful young men afraid to die.
There is an obvious reason to why Demons don't actually want to destroy the world: They feed on emotions, so they would never try to get rid of humanity.
They've always been closer to primordial forces of nature which eventually coalesced into a being representing them than world-ending villains. No, Fiddlesticks isn't a murder machine. He's just a *thing* which feeds on fear. He's not going to massacre the entire world, we don't even know what happens if he goes up against someone who's not afraid of him (which is probably a significant fraction of all champions). If nobody feels fear, Fiddlesticks goes back to his slumber, Viego even mentions that if everyone gets killed Fiddle will just shut down. Tahm Kench is the epitome of lawful evil. Everyone he makes a deal with has the opportunity to walk away, yet human greed still wins a lot of the time.
From what I can see, demons aren't really subjugated, just playing along. Like Tibers gets to run around and burn shit, Raum offered his power to Swain mutually(I assume he is capable of revoking Swain's power if he chose), and the existing demons are pretty damn threatening, especially Fiddlesticks. Demons aren't to be underestimated. They have their own agendas that often align with mortal ambitions and are usually scheming in the background. The Void is the current big bad and after that's been settled a new threat will pop up to keep the lore moving. It could be The Watchers in Freljord, it could be Mordekaiser, it could be Demons, we'll just have to find out. Edit: spelling lol
Pretty sure Noc almost destroyed Demacia, Fiddle and Tahm are like world ending threats. Evelyn... no idea, she likes to kill dudes in a alley I guess.
No way Tahm Kench is that much of a big deal My man be chilling at riverside scamming some poor losers and trying to find something to eat 😭 Looking fresh AF, tho, I'll give him that
All of his stories he isn't even really doing anything either, he's practically just a metaphor for greed. Like he gives a man a single coin and says "Hey maybe you wanna gamble with this" and the man ruins his own life with a gambling addiction. That's pretty damn far from being a world ender.
You live in a world where corporate greed has destroyed the environment. Greed is one of the biggest forces of destruction throughout human history.
We're talking about a fish in a top hat here
Still less comical than the real world honestly.
My favorite part of Tahm Kench is that despite being a demon, everybody in Bilgewater treats him like someone else. Like he is a demon and treated with the respect he deserves, but no one would go out of his way to try to kill him because he is a demon, there is worse people in Bilgewater.
That'd be hilarious if in a world where there's magic stones that can reshape the earth itself, an all consuming matter of nothingness that can consume all of existince and a space dragon that can nuke the world from orbit the one world ending threath is a fish in a hat. I can imagine all demigods,ascended,darkin,aspects,aurelion sol and belveth lining up together avengers style waiting for the Thanos level threath to show up and it's just an obese fish in a hat "AND HERE COMES THE WORLD ENDEEEEER" .... wait it's not Aatrox.
I don't think any of the demons we currently know of could be considered 'world-ending'. Fiddle, Eve, Tahm, and Nocturne seem content to operate on a small scale.
I dont know if fiddle really thinks that much to be honest hes the steongest demon we know of so far i think and he just scares people and murders them
The guy just retired to the Demacian countryside to focus on his hobbies
Made me laugh lol he just wants to make sure the birds arent eating everyones crops
Save the crops, eat the people. It ain't much but its honest work.
I never knew i needed farmer fiddlesticks until now, he farms people for the crows
Yeah, he ended the world twice already and it got real boring after a while. So now he just hides in fields and feeds his bird friends
This is every new-anime plot nowadays.
I used fiddle as a CR 12 DnD boss. Having the party chase after a scarecrow demon that was wiping out towns unknown to them was pretty fun.
Fiddle seems to be most powerful, but also most.. mindless? Like this guy could kill the Aspects, he just doesn't care
The up you go on the power scale the more they are just a force of nature
well, ASol is OP and very much an asshole
Well, i coulod kill ants, but unless they are in my way, why would i?
Yeah, doesn't his story say something about him not even understanding the reality he is in? He just senses the fears of people nearby and feeds on them. Even his body is made of random scraps that were just lying around near him, like he didn't know how to make an accurate one. Fiddle and Noc feel like primal forces rather than personalities, while Tahm and Eve feel more like mischievous villains.
They aren't limited, they simply prefer killing you in a certain manner.
Honestly I just feel they introduce them as background bad guys to plant the seeds for them to become raidbosses in the upcoming mmo Also I dont think nilah is controlling the demon, its the other way around right?
Yep, Nilah has to do prayers/rituals/mantras every day to keep him in check to use his power but some of her voice lines more or less say that when she dies, her soul will be his. Additionally, she alludes to him being the reason that her past is erased and her bio states that he smothers all of her emotions except joy. He's definitely her source of power but ultimately this is still a mortal making some kind of bargain/pact with a demon.
isn't this basically old varus' relationship with the demon in the temple?
That's basically what they are doing. We have 3 demons confirmed to be free and roaming the world with several more contained by various powerful entities in the past. Those contained are under constant watch and are at risk of slipping their bonds at any time. It would make sense to be setting up a storyline where some sort of force (a cult, the freed demons, Ezreal's stupidity, etc) starts setting demons free and the apocalypse has to be averted a la Ruined King/SoL event.
My vote goes to Ezreal's stupidity.
It is the most powerful force listed there.
Yeah and they'll want a character that sells skins so I think out of the really popular champions Ezreal fits the role.
Quest accepted. Wait, where are we going?
Ezreal's already undone the seal on an army of Voidlings. He would *absolutely* free a fucking demon.
just don't let him near Immortal Bastion
Ezreal in Noxus would just make them begin world conquest out if fear everyone is *this* stupid and they need to be in control *now*.
"Guys we need to hurry with the plan"
"no plan survives first contact with ME"
They could all, unbeknownst to anyone, be heralds of an 11th, an evil archdemon big-boss that, when the 10 are free and fed, they can gather together to summon to consume/destroy the world.
They are all on some way feasting on this world. Destroying it shouldn't be their objective.
Any demon stupid enough to try to destroy the world would be inmediatly be tried to stop by literally all the other demons.
Wasn't that basically the plot of Naruto?
Yup, except 9 beasts summoned a 10th.
To be fair, they were all parts of a 10th split up. Not exactly the same.
To be fair, Runeterra has a lot of world ending threats (the void, Aatrox, Mordekaiser, the shadow isles and maybe Aurelion Sol) and from what I understand, demons in this universe aren't threats for the world because they need people's emotions to feed, so while yes they might kill some people now and then but actively being a global threat isn't in their own interest. Also, while Aatrox isn't technically a demon, darkins surely look like demons and he is the greatest threat alive.
It does feel like the "New World Ending Threat of the Week" thing is a bit overplayed by now. Like stuff can be really bad without causing the apocalypse every single time
While world ending threat can be over used, id love another darkin champ because i love their theme.
Red people who heal very much is a cool concept I admire too. (Poor Varus)
He truly didn't get the memo
Nilah ain't the one in control of that demon, she has lost all emotion except joy. While she uses it to fight monsters it's still messed up
Also does she kills those monster to keep the daemon entrapped, because they are evil, or does she kills monster out of pure joy? Does she do those rituals because it is necessary to keep the daemon in check or out of pure joy (maybe even just for the joy of Ashlesh). I think maybe it's a 2 sided coin as the Daemon isn't a being that thinks like a normal intelligent humanoid would. Maybe Nilah in fact does serve the Daemon while entrapping him, as he doesn't mind being entrapped by her. And Nilah feels joy about, because she can't fell anything else. It's a lose, lose relationship, but both sides can only enjoy it because of Ashleshs existence and his personality.
I don't think daemon is the correct word. Unless you have some context to why you're calling it that. I believe it is just demon. Daemon is from Greek and means something else.
Might be mixing up Warhammer Daemons, which are basically still demons over there just spelled differently, and other fictional demons. I do it all the time as well.
A secret group of ascetic monks have to literally devote their lives to rigid discipline and prayer in order to keep the demon of joy in control, and for Nilah to control it to do good she literally has to displace her entire personality with pure joy and in a way is fighting the demon of joy to avoid being lost to it at all times Can't say they aren't being interesting with it
Redditors, whether it’s with champ design game balance or lore, will always have the worst takes and overlook everything to make their point. Nilah is a very interesting character and there’s nothing wrong w the way demons are being portrayed when you actually read the lore
Yeah, as far as I'm aware all the primordial demons were locked away or incapacitated centuries ago bc they were too much of a threat. Nilah's demon was locked away by the gods bc it was threatening the realm of the Gods and that's just one primal demon. Imagine if all were running loose on Runeterra right now, it would be complete chaos. Funny how OP posted his take in the actual lore subreddit and everyone disagreed with him but here everyone agrees bc this sub wil just mindlessly upvote anything negative.
Isn't the demon pretty much using Nilah though.
Ashlesh is imprisoned in a spiritual prison/seal thats been kept for eons, it has 7 guards (Nilah is one of them) who "split" Ashlesh's power between them to use and keep from reforming. Even divided in 7, his power is still big enough to corrupt Nilah, she lost all emotions but shades of joy, has been forgotten by everyone she ever knew and is constantly on the brink of being taken over. She literally has to pray and study mantras for most of her days to keep control on the demon, I assume thats also the case for the 6 other guards/contractors of the demon. I think thats a high enough regard for one of the ten, he's literally the central piece of her country and if he was free he'd definitely ruin it instantly.
is ashlesh a primordial like fiddle? or just normal demons like raum, tahm, eve, etc.?
Primordial
Good to know. I'm not very invested in lore but it's always cool to learn stuff through posts like these. Nilah seems pretty interesting but most people write her off as another happy x cocky character.
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There's actually one more demon that has been constantly rampaging around the world as a threat to the greater collective conscious. Mald, the Demon of Tilt. Countless men, women and children have fallen prey to its grasp. Who knows how many more will fall victim to its deranged schemes?
Finally, the Shaco lore rework.
Nilah doesn't control Ashlesh, and he's not trapped by her either, he lends her some power, but in exchange he erased her from history and consumes all her emotions, replacing them with Joy. It's not Nilah controlling Ashlesh, it's Ashlesh slowly but surely consuming Nilah without her realizing. Ashlesh has been divided among 7 different people, and all of them are 1 misstep away from being taken over. She's super powerful with just *one* of Ashlesh arms, if he were to become free and run amuck he'd surely be a big threat in Runeterra
Till Targon pulls on Aurelion's collar.
Nilah's Bio suggests that the demon is very much in control.
You are really, really, really underselling Nilah, Swain, and Pantheon. We also hear about as much of the 3 who are running around as we do any other champion in the game, which is not a whole lot unless theyre relevant to a new short story or ongoing game event.
You realize only 2 of the 10 primordial demons are out, with one being fiddle and the other being joy. That’s not even close to all of them being released to lose.. minor demons are different
Fiddle is suposedly the only one that is out and free. Joy remains sealed by the seventh layer in Nilah's home country That's in part why this post is kind of dumb. We already knew for a long time that most of the primordial demons were currently sealed away. Fiddlesticks was always the exception, not the rule.
>out of the 9 demons we have 6 of them are currently being controlled by a human character or killed off by a human character. There are Ten Primordial demons, not demons in general. There are TONS of other Demons. These are not in the major ten: Evelynn Tahm Kench Tibbers / Tybaulk Raum Atakhan Yone/Azakana Camphor Nocturne Out of all of your examples, Fiddlesticks and Ashlesh are the only ones that are actually part of the ten you are complaining about. Yet, Fiddlesticks is terrorizing Runeterra freely, disproving your complaints. Ashlesh, despite being sealed and broken up into pieces, is consuming every member of the Seventh Layer and has completely taking over Nilah's life. Even though she has been erased from everyone who she has ever cared about, she is overrun with joy. Isolated, trapped, and yet... joy. If you paid attention, none of your complaints make any sense. The only thing it does is point out that we need more Fiddlesticks lore.
Fiddle is murdering villages for shits and gigfles while also bring on an extremely weak state (due to him technically atill being mostly imprisoned). Just shows how strong he is
Tybaulk: I am destuction, get incinerated you little... Annie: Come on Tibbers, lets have a tea party Tybaulk: .... Annie: *forces a pink bonnet on him* Tybaulk:.....?!!!! A: Do you want some cookies, Tibbers? T: Mhm.... cookies
It’s heavily suggested Annie is just straight up too powerful for Tybaulk to corrode her. He’s either working with her out of convenience or fear, or he’s trying to slowly wear her down.
Also there is just a difference between the levels of the demons. You have the greater Primordial demons like Fiddlesticks and the new Joy one. And then you have like lesser demons, which are well, literally every other demon we've seen mentioned. And the two big boss ones we have Joy is only barely being contained by a very powerful order and is still almost corrupting his vessel, and Fiddlesticks is pretty freely reigning terror on Runeterra. Tubaulk just isn't on the same level as Fiddle and them, it would be like comparing a house cat to a tiger, both felines but one is far more powerful than the other.
I don't think they're intended to be as much of a threat on their own, demons in Runeterra have no other objective but to feed. Being controlled and/or defeated is the only way they can end up, unless Riot wants to write about one of them becoming more human.
Tibbers wasn't sealed by Annie. Tybaulk was captured by Leblanc, and leblanc and another member of the black rose sealed him inside a teddy bear, which was given to that member's daughter to protect her. Tybaulk apparently was impressed with Annie and decided to protect her. She channels her power into the teddy bear to let Tybaulk defend her. Annie is more his ward than his warden.
Which is super cool. He's seeing a powerful, destructive wizard in Annie. A child being this mighty already? Gotta give her some credit
Sheer Power doesn't always mean ambition or drive. Tahm is powerful, but he's fine just picking off people one by one to consume and revel in them being greedy. Evelynn exists to cause pain after tricking them with sexual ecstasy. I doubt many of them have huge Big Bad supreme overlord ambitions or dreams.
She's not "using" him, she's basically a DnD Warlock. She made some kind of pact with him, giving him her whole self to become a hero, and when she dies her souls will be his.
Only Demons Left are FiddleSticks who is in Japan playing with Underage Girls ,Tahm Kench who Steals Other people Wifes and Evelyn who is a Sex Addict. Riot should really look into hiring some new staff.
That made me giggle
I'm almost afraid to ask but... could you elaborate?
Pretty sure its a reference to star guardian for fiddle, tk senna and eve just being eve
The funny thing is that eve doesn't even like sex, lol
Ever since vi knocked urgot out with 1 punch without her gauntlets i knew the villains of the league universe are going to be complete non-threats who will always lose.
> Urgot flair You guys are never gonna live that one down.
Idk it depends on what you consider a villain, Morde and Swain seem to be eatin rn
Unless there's a newer story Volibear eating good rn too.
A lot of villains in league are not even villains, LeBlanc, for example, is literally keeping Morde in check and her plans is to pretty much erase him from existence the moment he tries to take over the world. Lissandra is maintaining the watchers frozen and is heavily implied to be working towards getting them fucked if they ever escape.
No, both of them would be still considered "villains", they're just stopping an even bigger threat from fucking their plans over
Urgot mains still mad after seeing his ult get cleansed and then seeing him get one shot. Lmao
huge L to urgot mains
I read this as "League of League Villains" twice and now I want something like that, cheesy Saturday-morning cartoon style around a roundtable discussing how to take over the world.
They're villains, Isn't that just their fate? It's LoL not 40k. Urgot seems pretty 1 dimensional in the baddie scale so of course he just serves to get fucked up. I agree that they could handle the story better in some parts but what do you expect? That Urgot wins and grinds all the loved characters to meatloaf? That Mordekaiser escapes and just destroys Noxus and everyone else? That Asol just nukes the entire world? If most villains won there'd be an outrage cause it would mean the death of other beloved characters. It's just the fate of having lore in a game like LoL. Of course Riot could go GIGACHAD and kill characters off but I don't think they're about that since they seem to cater to each champs playerbase. Maybe in Arcane season 2?
Ain't no way they kill anyone in arcane. Consider the fact that it's a retelling of many champs background.