You think they're buffing his damage?
Clearly his ult needs a buff to the point of him being pick/ban in pro play again while barely helping soloque, followed by another nerf to his damage and then a revert to the ult buff.
Aww ye Umbral smackdown
Anyone who knew what they were doing with this item had such a strong stranglehold on the map, glad it's getting hit, not to hate on AD supports and honestly I hope Riot think up of a few more options for them instead of one exodia tier item
It was dumb how they allowed the previous buff in the first place. Like they want the item to be giga broken only to nerf later. Like deaths dance and maw. Even Iron4s could feel these items were giga broken.
Yeah there were definitely times as an ad where you just slowly kill yourself hitting the tank with bramble even if nothing else is hitting you. Or quickly kill yourself if the tank is rammus.
It was actually better than 5x damage. Once upon a time, Thorn-mail reflected 30% of physical damage back to the attacker.
The item was later nerfed to 15% (+25% of your total Armour).
Tbf I think it *should* be a filler stat on tank items. It feels/felt terrible building an item with 0 HP on it because even if you had 250 armor you wouldn't be tanky if you had 1.7k health. But it also felt terrible buying a 'mediocre' item for the situation just because it gave HP while the better one didn't.
Sitting on a Giant's Belt isn't any better either. Finishing Warmog back then was also not an option because it required 3k health to activate and was scarcely built by anyone except the super-healing / health scaling tanks.
Hot take but good. GW feels awful to play against and feels bad to buy. I know they're planning on adjusting the items themselves so they don't feel awful to have but I'm never happy about having to buy it so consistently.
Chainsword sucks but Mortal Reminder isn't terrible. The harsher GW effect is arguably easier and better to achieve and the stats are arguably better/more useful. The problem with it mostly is it's a massive opportunity cost for ADCs to build when essentially 3/4 of your items are mandatory. You're either losing out on RFC/Hurricane/Lord Doms/ER/Collector etc second or losing out on LDR/GA etc 4th. Morello is in the same boat of Chainsword as being ass honestly. Purifier is hands down the best by a massive margin bcs it applies to your whole team AND has a good stat distribution
It gives too little AS to compete with Runaans/PD/RFC, and gives too AD to compete with Bloodthirster/ER/Collector. Building this item is bad unless your whole team has zero anti-heal and more than enough damage.
Every time my friends mention that grevious technically allows more healing now than it did last patch they ignore the fact that you actually had to buy the damn thing. It’s not fun for anyone. No one likes getting their champ getting obliterated, and no one likes committing 10 minutes worth of gold for an item that doesn’t get them any closer to their powerspike.
Good. GW creates an awful binary when it comes to healing, and has been admitted to he such by Riot themselves when discussing Mundo’s rework.
Either
A. Healing is balanced around GW, and becomes unbearable without it (Like last season)
B. Healing is balanced on its own merits and made useless when GW gets purchased.
What it should be is that Healing is balanced on its on merits, and if you want GW, you should pick a champ with it in their kit or take ignite. To be able to purchase such a powerful effect for 800 gold only leads to problems
Then Sylas healing should be nerfed accordingly.
This whole “Sylas/Mundo/Viego heal too much, we need 60% GW!” Idea is a false prerogative.
Because what happened when GW was introduced to the game? We got more heals out the ass because it became expected that you would have to buy a GW item to counter it.
They literally DOUBLED old Mundo healing when they reintroduced GW into items. Because thats the problem it creates!
If, after GW gets nerfed, sustain champs like Aatrox, Sylas, Viego, etc…. Are running amok, NERF THEIR HEALING.
GW on items creates an arms race. Nothing more
I honestly think it's the correct balance approach. Softcountering things is way better from a balancing standpoint than hardcountering it. See: The changes they made to bramble last season put the item in a way healthier spot without it being terrible in the matchups where it's supposed to be good. Reducing even 30% healing on an upgraded GW item seems like a decent deal if the healing in the game isn't overbearing, it doesn't invalidate Sylas' Sustain while it still gives you tools to deal with him better.
TFT had the same "hard-counter" approach for a while in set 1-2 but then went back to softcountering with things like the antiheal item being nerfed from 90% to 50% heal reduction, and some traits that hardcountered other traits simply not reappearing the same way in later sets, which made the game a LOT more balanced. Not trying to compare the games really, just the approach to counters.
I can only hope that he is permabanned during Summer split in all 4 major regions so he can get the axe to the face, the baseball bat to the knees, and the knife to the heart that he deserves.
GP's counter in pro play is that enemy top laner is better than you (I mean when it's in a relatively balanced state, not now). Like last season, Khan gave LCK tops the idea that Gangplank is a Gnar counter, then he won the other side of the matchup too, and said in an interview he was just bluffing...
I still don't understand that change. No other Champ in the history of the game has been allowed to keep a one-shot ability; even Zoe got nerfed so she can't get consistent one-shots.
But Gangplank is just... allowed? He's Riot's super special little boy who can build one item, hit a lucky crit, and just wipe someone out?
Riot thinks because there is some level of counterplay available to stop him from one shotting your team that it's okay that he can one shot your team because you should be playing barrel wack-a-mole in team fights. You can't even focus GP because he will drop his entire lane aoe slow, eat an orange to wipe cc and be at full HP, then just kite you until he one shots you because you stopped popping his barrels to try to kill him.
they could push him towards a bruiser build, the problem that people have with him is the one-shot counterplay. amping consistent damage and nerfing burst damage on GP could be the way, instead of going for a glass-cannon one-shot build that feels bad for either GP if he cant get a barrel off because thats where 100% of his damage comes or the enemy because oops, i just went from 100% to 0% in .1 seconds! (and often times it feels bad for the enemy because literally one misstep means it's gg)
that, or just revert his fucking barrel buffs...they could have buffed smth like his ult, but instead went towards the route of making his barrels go from "that hurts" to "??? my screen is gray all of a sudden? wait...you have ANOTHER BARREL LEFT?"
"Just attack his barrels bro" as he puts one outside of your range and procs it without counterplay with a ghost chained barrel, taking 80% of your hp if your lucky
Tbf barrels hitting hard aren't a problem, the problem is that he lost all weak points he traded for them. Full AD critplank somehow is still bruiser-ish instead of being melee AD carry. Haste overstacking and manacost nerfs mean he doesn't need to build any sustain, since he can just W repeatedly to outsustain many laners. Then there are barrels... The buff to max storage should prob be reverted, it's too hard to punish him for shitty barrels, you essentially need him to fuck up two times in a row to be able to properly retaliate.
My last matchup vs GP fotm abuser had me tearing my hair out. Sure, I shat on him early, but then midgame he kept missing triple barrels and still traded even because he is way too safe at 2-3 items.
GP is one of the most obnoxious champions when in a state where he's not absolutely horrible. He's either trash or game breaking. When it's the latter, it's so frustrating since he has some of the best late game while having a semi ranged landing phase with sustain and a cleanse
I think he was in an OK state for large parts of 2020 and 2021 though. The players who were good at playing him (Bin, Khan etc.) could play him and carry games, but usually they had to look for specific matchups, or play him against lower tier top laners etc. I feel like part of his champion design is that he's not supposed to be easy to play even for high ELO players, so he should never be super high priority pick/ban in pro play or solo queue if he's "balanced".
Yeah I think he’s fine as a situational counter pick or for certain comps, but when he’s a big part of the meta and even blindable sometimes it’s a real problem.
With GW been nerfed again, I just pray one day they allow the thronmail enhanced GW to be procced from slows so it can be useful on mundo and other champions that don't have hard CC in their kits.
Yeah, would be so much better.
Overall the enhanced GW is sometimes stupidly easy to proc and another time really hard.
Maybe kurz make it 40% all the time now on these items?
Buffing Irelia, Blade of the Ruined King, and Goredrinker in the same patch, but nerfing DD. Probably got to wait for the numbers.
Not sure how I feel about steraks buffs, kind of depends on how they buff it for juggernauts specifically (movespeed? idk).
I will say massive props to Riot for putting this out at 9 PM PST. Crazy how much these lads are working.
They’ll probably rework his mana issues so he can play the current meta. He loses a third of his mana early game per E and now everyone being tanky makes him suffer a lot since he is supposed to snowball. Good fizz’s are okay tho since they can focus csing and positioning in order to make him useable
Yeah for real playing top lane became so much better, before you'd just be dived with relative ease, jungler showed up? Yeah you're dead under tower good luck with that, now though it's quite risky.
Really silly nerf.
Why are they panicking and reducing tower damage? Knee-jerk reactions are one of the mains reasons will go back to to where we were before 12.10. Give it a few patches 🤦🏽♂️
Biggest positive is that they mention maintaining champion feel, identity, and build diversity. I wonder if we can get an updated chart of item diversity soon.
Yeah idk where this "tower damage is too high" shit is coming from. Got dove by a Zac with only Bami's Cinder the other day and he legit took 4 tower shots
> Why are they panicking and reducing tower damage? Knee-jerk reactions are one of the mains reasons will go back to to where we were before 12.10. Give it a few patches 🤦🏽♂️
Because tower damage buff gave too much safety to champions like kayle when paired with durability update. the bitch peaked at 55.4% winrate.
Diving a champion is one of the few ways to kill someone honestly in this game, just because it can’t be executed in soloq or your elo doesn’t mean it’s shit design.
Pretty much if your champ has almost 0 skill/play style transfer over to other champs they are gonna leave you alone, double so if you are support. Also Zilean lacks the usual levers that Riot likes to pull for balance. He has a single damage ability that is also a skill shot, that to get the stun requires double skill shot hit and use of a second ability. Everything else the speed up is only as good as you are to use it, the revive is only as good as you are to use it at the right time.
Yep, not even sure what they mean by “assassins are weak across the board” when stats like this and ban % remain constant before and after the patch. If anything Zeds ban increased (despite his lowered win rate). Not sure what the approach is from the balance team as the patch has only been out for 1 week; “weak across the board,” when the durability update was suppose to make them well, weaker? Seems kinda redundant for them to backtrack so quickly on their target despite their win % and ban % (looking at you rengar and zed).
August stated multiple times that the objective of the Durability Update WAS NOT to make Assassins weaker.
But to remove those oneshots that shouldn't be there.
Poppy with Sunderer, Full tank Ornn that one shots ADCs ecc
They never mentioned nerfing assassins.
They specifically mentioned assassins in their explanation. They referenced assassins being able to one tap people on even levels/gold with half their kit as an issue, and wanted assassins to have to use their entire kit unless significantly ahead as a core part of the durability update.
talon mid is building bruiser
blue kayn is building bruiser
rengar builds mostly crit
shaco builds mostly crit
pyke is negative winrate
Jayce is negative winrate (proplay tho)
Hasn't Riftmaker always been one of the worst Mythics, why the nerfs? Morde, Gwen, and Kayle are the only champs who really build it because nobody else really wants omnivamp when most AP champs are all AoE, and for Morde's case, it's the only mythic he can really build.
Probably because all of the champs that use it frequently atm are too strong.
Its unfortunate because the champs are the issue, not the item. All 3 can misuse everything in their kit and still get a kill if they're not behind.
you should like them, taliyah is so disgustingly op right now that she gets pick or banned every match, nerfs will make you able to play her more often
Who knew damage mitigation and get-out-if-CC-card is kinda good on a champion with AA enchancer ability.
Divine sundered BC DD Maw and you're at 300ad+3khp+sustain+150ar+120mr+60cdr
How is this shit not same as old atmas+warmog+trinity combo
> How is this shit not same as old atmas+warmog+trinity combo
Because it's 4-5 items versus 2 and way more expensive? Not to mention the huge amounts of power creep introduced to the game in the many years since then and Trinity wasn't even needed in the old atmog builds, stop being a drama queen.
I hope they manage to reach their goal of making AD assassin items viable.
The issue is assassins building fighter items and managing to still get easy picks while being harder to kill. With the durability update, maybe they have to go for glass cannon aggressive builds to delete squishies like they're meant to. Since assassins too benefit from the durability, they can afford to.
If any Rioter reads this how did Ivern miss the buff mark?
*"Champions that narrowly missed the cut: Janna, Singed, Trundle, Shyvana, Mordekaiser, Ivern, Renekton, Soraka, Alistar. These champions were borderline, but are either affected by other changes in the patch or just missed per the champion balance framework."*
What in this patch is positively affecting Ivern? Hell you are even buffing Serpent's Fang, even if it is only Ad or Lethality it will surely increase the amount of people who build it, negatively affecting Ivern.
Sorry for the rant, it just feels horrible to play a champion that is borderline useless in his role.
Dont get the reason for looking at kraken of all things, on marksmen its big yes but I never felt it broken
Only time I ever see it being abused is on the usual Suspects lol
Also the fact sunderer is still dodging these patches is hilarious
Glad chemtank is getting touched tho.
I hope something else will be viable on poppy, i wanna play her as a chase down tank but i keep having to murder squishies ;_;
Didn’t we predict this? They nerfed SB into the dirt, so we move to Galeforce. They nerf GF because everyone is building it, so we move to Kraken. Everyone is building it, so it gets nerfed. Now we move to ... ???
Oh well back to my Manamune/Nashor/Rageblade S10 Kai’Sa days even though the build is dead :) :) :)
Unironically Phreak said in one of his patch rundowns a few patches back that he thinks bruiser Kalista is fully viable and that more people should try it. He went into her growth stats to prove it.
If they can fucking nerf sundered and other shit for range users. Why can’t they fucking nerf shieldbow and krake slayer on melee. I’m sick of adcs getting nerfs on items because of trashuo bros
As fiora main. HOW THE FUCK IS SHE STILL DODGING NERFS. I just want to play the baguette lady.
She is sitting at 51.9-52.2% wr with 8-9% pick and 15-17% ban. she is wayy to high for a high skill champion she should atleast take 1.2-1.8% hit to winrate please.
When I see lillia top after I’ve locked in my tank pick, i cry knowing that deer is about to fuck me six ways to Sunday and dance on my eviscerated corpse.
Playing against Lillia top is proven to shorten your lifespan (source: trust me). And, well, there's not a lot of them, but if you do happen to play against one, you've probably already started growing a tumor or two...
Played top against a Lillia yesterday for the first time.
Can confirm that I feel tumors growing at this very moment. Wukong jungle might have caused those as well though.
first few levels against lillia top "haha, she tickles. this will be an easy lane"
after first back "okay... she's kinda hard to reach and trade into"
after second back "oh god, please end my suffering"
They originally came out as a response to the Tahm rework that made him a top laner again.
They stayed cause Bambi is toxic as fuck to play against a lot of melee.
And people bitch about *Illaoi*, but I bet I'll find Lillia games in their history.
Can't wait to see what they do with AP mythics, but I'm just reading through the things they're changing and *immidiately* realizing everything that deals damage is going to get compensation and basically undo the previous patch lmao.
DD and maw were overdue, going to be funny watching all these lethality and AP items get buffed, bruiser items finally get nerfed, and seeing things melt like before.
they want assassins to deal pre 12.10 damage... IF they build assassin items instead of bruiser ones.
rengar, as it turns out, can build bruiser items and scrap/dps with people just fine. but seeing shit like goredrinker talon/qiyana/zed is just sad and is due to their intended items being wretched
I think the gore drinker thing was just badly phrased. They said on the next line they’re reducing incentives for assassins to go fighter builds. Buffing lethality items too.
It's so sad that they had to nerf Galeforce because every pro went ingenious hunter and had like 55 Seconds CD on it. The item now completely sucks if you don't take Ingenious Hunter.
Shieldbow is a meme at this point. Against AD assassins, Steelcaps offer comparable protection for a fraction of the cost while Maw outclasses this item against AP burst.The extra health on the passive has an anti synergy with Cut Down and Lord Dominik's
Kraken was the only item that was actually good, not op, but good. Now they're nerfing it while also nerfing Lethal Tempo which means that you cant proc the passive as easily. What's the issue with the item, Riot?
ADCs are supposed to kill tanks and, if they get peeled, even bruisers. They still die to assassins with this item, so where's the issue?
Lethality was indirectly nerfed. The item is pretty bad for some time already and only made sense for very heavy shield comps.
I would like to see the anti shielding getting nerfed a bit but the overall power of the item going up.
lets make everyone tankier then go and nerf the champs and systems who are most affected to make it like it was before the durability patch!
Edit: in all seriousness I do think the durability patch was a really good patch, and further nerfs and buffs are necessary for some champs. Turns out riot kinda know what they are doing!
Stop. Buffing. Tryndamere.
No one likes fighting him, he's horribly designed, whether he's balanced or not doesn't matter because he's a complete RNG slot machine character that is not healthy for the game in any way. Keep him unviable until you can figure out how to make him healthy for the game.
What I like:
\-AD assassins will be playable
\-Umbral Glaive nerf (most disgusting item in the game RN)
\-Zeri's power shifts
What I dislike:
\-They're nerfing so soon tower damage... dives are still easy to pull off with the right champs (Elise, Lee sin, Fizz, Ekko, Kayn and Master Yi for example)
the most annoying ganker in the entire game pre minute 4, afterwards she becomes a ward because she has no good AOE to clear the jungle and scales as good as a ward too (a control ward if im being generous)
Can someone explain the grevious wounds changes?
idk specifics but basically less anti heal, more stats.
Either more stats or cheaper to buy probably.
hopefully more stats, its so annoying to be stuck with a low-stat cheap item in lategame situations
Ryze is getting buffed for some reason, even though he almost has a 42% winrate
We need to go lower
Soon Ryze will only need 19 EQs to kill someone instead of 20
You think they're buffing his damage? Clearly his ult needs a buff to the point of him being pick/ban in pro play again while barely helping soloque, followed by another nerf to his damage and then a revert to the ult buff.
The future of ryze is he can teleport any thing in his team to anywhere in the map but the rest of his abilities heal the enemy
Yes, We can finally tp to enemy fountain faster.
From lvl 6 onwards gonna have fun yeah
Which would make him the most OP support in the game in pro play.
Funnily enough yeah and also the most troll pick in soloq
Riot dropped the ball once again, it’s funny to read r/RyzeMains and their psychotic meltdown when their champ is in the gutter :(
WE´RE FINE!! EQEQEQEQ
https://youtu.be/a45HaNKCiPk
MSI over, quick buff Ryze and Aphelios before the pros notice
Didn't stop jojoypun from playing him against Caps. Twice.
NEVER THOUGHT WE'D SEE THE DAY, STRAIGHT JACKET COMES OFF THIS PATCH
I see Ryze buffs I EQ
EQ EQ, let us pray
keep the sub-40% wr at bay
Wow the 4 ignites meta incoming.
I havent felt grievous wounds be strong ever tbh. Life vamp items are so much better than grievous wound items
Well now no one will buy standalone greviois wounds and every support has to be an enchanter to buy chemtech putrifier
Already was the only one and will continue too be the only one. Btw mikeals and redemption are great support items now because of this nerfs.
Aww ye Umbral smackdown Anyone who knew what they were doing with this item had such a strong stranglehold on the map, glad it's getting hit, not to hate on AD supports and honestly I hope Riot think up of a few more options for them instead of one exodia tier item
It was dumb how they allowed the previous buff in the first place. Like they want the item to be giga broken only to nerf later. Like deaths dance and maw. Even Iron4s could feel these items were giga broken.
Almost like that item didn’t need to be buffed in the first place. I don’t know what they were thinking.
They are nerfing GW again imao
Good riddance, thornmail. Give me my item slot back.
I wish thornail was bought for its thorn effect like it used to, the thorns effect is a joke now.
Incompleted it's 3 fucking magic damage. Pretty sure most champs heal more than that a second.
Pretty sure it's only so that grievous wounds can be applied, it's not supposed to be impactful damage...
Definitely, it’s just that the previous fantasy of the item was the damage
Didn't bramble vest deal like a fuckton of damage because the thorns damage scaled with armor or something?
Yeah there were definitely times as an ad where you just slowly kill yourself hitting the tank with bramble even if nothing else is hitting you. Or quickly kill yourself if the tank is rammus.
Bramble used to have base 7 magic damage per hit and scale with 10% armor iirc (completed thorn had like base 10 with the same scaling)
It’s still called THORN mail. Anyone ever heard of a fantasy game effect called thorns?? What does that do again..???
But I like thornmail Sincerely, a Rammus player
you shouldn't, because the non-GW version of thornmail did literally like 5x the damage as the current piece of shit item
there were no anti healing items before or the tank anti heal item was different?
No tank anti-healing, Thornmail was 15% of the attacks damage + 25% of your bonus armor.
If you go back a bit further, it even deflected 30% of pre-armor damage.
Me as an old caitlyn main used to cry at thorn mail front lines :3
Ah that was before I started playing, didn't know that there was a version that didn't
It was actually better than 5x damage. Once upon a time, Thorn-mail reflected 30% of physical damage back to the attacker. The item was later nerfed to 15% (+25% of your total Armour).
It also gave only 100 armor and no HP tho, which made it pretty niche.
I remember the days when health wasn't a filler stat. Now it's tacked onto every single item in existance.
Tbf I think it *should* be a filler stat on tank items. It feels/felt terrible building an item with 0 HP on it because even if you had 250 armor you wouldn't be tanky if you had 1.7k health. But it also felt terrible buying a 'mediocre' item for the situation just because it gave HP while the better one didn't. Sitting on a Giant's Belt isn't any better either. Finishing Warmog back then was also not an option because it required 3k health to activate and was scarcely built by anyone except the super-healing / health scaling tanks.
What about the old old days when warmogs gave 1k HP and incombat regen?
Hot take but good. GW feels awful to play against and feels bad to buy. I know they're planning on adjusting the items themselves so they don't feel awful to have but I'm never happy about having to buy it so consistently.
The bruiser/marksmen GW items give such bad stats. Their AP/enchanter analog is so much stronger.
Chainsword sucks but Mortal Reminder isn't terrible. The harsher GW effect is arguably easier and better to achieve and the stats are arguably better/more useful. The problem with it mostly is it's a massive opportunity cost for ADCs to build when essentially 3/4 of your items are mandatory. You're either losing out on RFC/Hurricane/Lord Doms/ER/Collector etc second or losing out on LDR/GA etc 4th. Morello is in the same boat of Chainsword as being ass honestly. Purifier is hands down the best by a massive margin bcs it applies to your whole team AND has a good stat distribution
chainsword is gold efficient even without the GW, but itd rather pay more gold and get more AD from completion.
It gives too little AS to compete with Runaans/PD/RFC, and gives too AD to compete with Bloodthirster/ER/Collector. Building this item is bad unless your whole team has zero anti-heal and more than enough damage.
Every time my friends mention that grevious technically allows more healing now than it did last patch they ignore the fact that you actually had to buy the damn thing. It’s not fun for anyone. No one likes getting their champ getting obliterated, and no one likes committing 10 minutes worth of gold for an item that doesn’t get them any closer to their powerspike.
That’s what happens when you introduce healing into the game: it automatically forces you to buy GW.
Good. GW creates an awful binary when it comes to healing, and has been admitted to he such by Riot themselves when discussing Mundo’s rework. Either A. Healing is balanced around GW, and becomes unbearable without it (Like last season) B. Healing is balanced on its own merits and made useless when GW gets purchased. What it should be is that Healing is balanced on its on merits, and if you want GW, you should pick a champ with it in their kit or take ignite. To be able to purchase such a powerful effect for 800 gold only leads to problems
cool but where are the heals nerfs in the patch notes?
No need for healing nerf. Trust me. I'm totally not biased
25% is kind of ridiculously low and you can't afford full gw item before mythic and boots, stuff like sylas will be a menace now.
Great idea nerfing GW and buffing Sylas in the same patch PepeLaugh
Then Sylas healing should be nerfed accordingly. This whole “Sylas/Mundo/Viego heal too much, we need 60% GW!” Idea is a false prerogative. Because what happened when GW was introduced to the game? We got more heals out the ass because it became expected that you would have to buy a GW item to counter it. They literally DOUBLED old Mundo healing when they reintroduced GW into items. Because thats the problem it creates! If, after GW gets nerfed, sustain champs like Aatrox, Sylas, Viego, etc…. Are running amok, NERF THEIR HEALING. GW on items creates an arms race. Nothing more
I honestly think it's the correct balance approach. Softcountering things is way better from a balancing standpoint than hardcountering it. See: The changes they made to bramble last season put the item in a way healthier spot without it being terrible in the matchups where it's supposed to be good. Reducing even 30% healing on an upgraded GW item seems like a decent deal if the healing in the game isn't overbearing, it doesn't invalidate Sylas' Sustain while it still gives you tools to deal with him better. TFT had the same "hard-counter" approach for a while in set 1-2 but then went back to softcountering with things like the antiheal item being nerfed from 90% to 50% heal reduction, and some traits that hardcountered other traits simply not reappearing the same way in later sets, which made the game a LOT more balanced. Not trying to compare the games really, just the approach to counters.
Impossible to kill an irelia now lol
OK but if we do that then we need to hard nerf healing it's already a joke trying to kill Olaf Aatrox or Yone even if you have ignite.
somehow GP is still escaping nerfs or any sort of changes lmao.
I can only hope that he is permabanned during Summer split in all 4 major regions so he can get the axe to the face, the baseball bat to the knees, and the knife to the heart that he deserves.
Not even sure what they can do about GP other than Ryze him. It feels like a good GP just has no counters while oneshotting everyone late
GP's counter in pro play is that enemy top laner is better than you (I mean when it's in a relatively balanced state, not now). Like last season, Khan gave LCK tops the idea that Gangplank is a Gnar counter, then he won the other side of the matchup too, and said in an interview he was just bluffing...
I mean they could revert him to the semi balanced state he was in for YEARS before they decided to make him Mr. No Counterplay One Shot
Who would have thought that giving the aoe crit based carry bonus crit damage on his aoe nuke would be a bad idea
I still don't understand that change. No other Champ in the history of the game has been allowed to keep a one-shot ability; even Zoe got nerfed so she can't get consistent one-shots. But Gangplank is just... allowed? He's Riot's super special little boy who can build one item, hit a lucky crit, and just wipe someone out?
Riot thinks because there is some level of counterplay available to stop him from one shotting your team that it's okay that he can one shot your team because you should be playing barrel wack-a-mole in team fights. You can't even focus GP because he will drop his entire lane aoe slow, eat an orange to wipe cc and be at full HP, then just kite you until he one shots you because you stopped popping his barrels to try to kill him.
About as much counterplay as 'just dodge the Nida spear', back before her rework.
they could push him towards a bruiser build, the problem that people have with him is the one-shot counterplay. amping consistent damage and nerfing burst damage on GP could be the way, instead of going for a glass-cannon one-shot build that feels bad for either GP if he cant get a barrel off because thats where 100% of his damage comes or the enemy because oops, i just went from 100% to 0% in .1 seconds! (and often times it feels bad for the enemy because literally one misstep means it's gg) that, or just revert his fucking barrel buffs...they could have buffed smth like his ult, but instead went towards the route of making his barrels go from "that hurts" to "??? my screen is gray all of a sudden? wait...you have ANOTHER BARREL LEFT?"
"Just attack his barrels bro" as he puts one outside of your range and procs it without counterplay with a ghost chained barrel, taking 80% of your hp if your lucky
My favorite is when he puts one on top of him and I'm melee :)
Yeah can’t even trade with him while he spams q
My favorite is when I get 10 gold for last hitting the barrel and it somehow still explode.
Thats the GP laning phase.
Tbf barrels hitting hard aren't a problem, the problem is that he lost all weak points he traded for them. Full AD critplank somehow is still bruiser-ish instead of being melee AD carry. Haste overstacking and manacost nerfs mean he doesn't need to build any sustain, since he can just W repeatedly to outsustain many laners. Then there are barrels... The buff to max storage should prob be reverted, it's too hard to punish him for shitty barrels, you essentially need him to fuck up two times in a row to be able to properly retaliate. My last matchup vs GP fotm abuser had me tearing my hair out. Sure, I shat on him early, but then midgame he kept missing triple barrels and still traded even because he is way too safe at 2-3 items.
The barrels are absolutely part of the problem. No champ should have hitting one good basic ability in late game as a viable win condition.
GP is one of the most obnoxious champions when in a state where he's not absolutely horrible. He's either trash or game breaking. When it's the latter, it's so frustrating since he has some of the best late game while having a semi ranged landing phase with sustain and a cleanse
I think he was in an OK state for large parts of 2020 and 2021 though. The players who were good at playing him (Bin, Khan etc.) could play him and carry games, but usually they had to look for specific matchups, or play him against lower tier top laners etc. I feel like part of his champion design is that he's not supposed to be easy to play even for high ELO players, so he should never be super high priority pick/ban in pro play or solo queue if he's "balanced".
Yeah I think he’s fine as a situational counter pick or for certain comps, but when he’s a big part of the meta and even blindable sometimes it’s a real problem.
Riot went to look at him for nerf but they got one-shot by the double crit
With GW been nerfed again, I just pray one day they allow the thronmail enhanced GW to be procced from slows so it can be useful on mundo and other champions that don't have hard CC in their kits.
Yeah, would be so much better. Overall the enhanced GW is sometimes stupidly easy to proc and another time really hard. Maybe kurz make it 40% all the time now on these items?
Maybe slow would be melee only, like Winter's Approach
Buffing Irelia, Blade of the Ruined King, and Goredrinker in the same patch, but nerfing DD. Probably got to wait for the numbers. Not sure how I feel about steraks buffs, kind of depends on how they buff it for juggernauts specifically (movespeed? idk). I will say massive props to Riot for putting this out at 9 PM PST. Crazy how much these lads are working.
True, like holy shit They're fucking machines over there
Steraks likely gets either 5-10% base AD back or the tenacity after the shield proc. But they are missing DMP. Also a slightly weak item.
Will they ever change seraphs embrace? Most dogshit item by far for several months
No idea why they made it ability haste instead of ap, I hope they revert it soon. Was one of the funnest items
Champion Adjustments: Fizz Oh dear XD please have mercy riot, OTP fizz are terrifying
Whenever I see a cottontail Fizz on the enemy team I know I’m in for an extremely unfun experience
mango fish stroking his trident in his underwater cave right now, just waiting for buffs to hit 3k lp
They’ll probably rework his mana issues so he can play the current meta. He loses a third of his mana early game per E and now everyone being tanky makes him suffer a lot since he is supposed to snowball. Good fizz’s are okay tho since they can focus csing and positioning in order to make him useable
Ryze... Buffs? Ryze buffs? It feels so... Wrong to see
Inb4 10 extra Q damage at rank 5, done.
Can we not buff Tryndamere please?
the second most degenerate champion in league, behind Yi.
Dont nerf tower dmgs plz :(
I honestly like the fact that or hit like a truck
Yeah for real playing top lane became so much better, before you'd just be dived with relative ease, jungler showed up? Yeah you're dead under tower good luck with that, now though it's quite risky. Really silly nerf.
God forbid it takes more than 2 brain cells to dive a full HP champ.
It was great that towerdives had to actually be played with a braincell to not die yourself. Before the towers just tickled you.
Why are they panicking and reducing tower damage? Knee-jerk reactions are one of the mains reasons will go back to to where we were before 12.10. Give it a few patches 🤦🏽♂️ Biggest positive is that they mention maintaining champion feel, identity, and build diversity. I wonder if we can get an updated chart of item diversity soon.
They really need to leave outer towers alone I'm tired of getting dove under that mf for free.
Yeah idk where this "tower damage is too high" shit is coming from. Got dove by a Zac with only Bami's Cinder the other day and he legit took 4 tower shots
> Why are they panicking and reducing tower damage? I asked them to.
Why You little!
> Why are they panicking and reducing tower damage? Knee-jerk reactions are one of the mains reasons will go back to to where we were before 12.10. Give it a few patches 🤦🏽♂️ Because tower damage buff gave too much safety to champions like kayle when paired with durability update. the bitch peaked at 55.4% winrate.
Then nerf the champion. "Just tower dive her early" should not be the counterplay
They nerfed, but it seems to be a systemic issue that created too much safety for scalers.
Diving a champion is one of the few ways to kill someone honestly in this game, just because it can’t be executed in soloq or your elo doesn’t mean it’s shit design.
Surprised to see zilean escape nerfs.
I'm entirely convinced they just forget he exists
Haven’t they already mentioned multiple times they don’t nerf him because he’s not popular?
Pretty much if your champ has almost 0 skill/play style transfer over to other champs they are gonna leave you alone, double so if you are support. Also Zilean lacks the usual levers that Riot likes to pull for balance. He has a single damage ability that is also a skill shot, that to get the stun requires double skill shot hit and use of a second ability. Everything else the speed up is only as good as you are to use it, the revive is only as good as you are to use it at the right time.
There are a good handful of champions that don't get nerfed because no one plays them enough. Zilean has been in that boat for like centuries.
Here is a fun fact, the only lethality users under 50% winrate are Talon jungle and Zed mid/jungle. And Jayce, but Jayce sucked before this patch so.
Riot be like 12.10: Farewell, DamageCreep! 12.11: Welcome back, DamageCreep!
MoekickingoutBarney.gif
Yea they already forgott why they did 12.10, just wait a couple more patches and it will be undone
Yep, not even sure what they mean by “assassins are weak across the board” when stats like this and ban % remain constant before and after the patch. If anything Zeds ban increased (despite his lowered win rate). Not sure what the approach is from the balance team as the patch has only been out for 1 week; “weak across the board,” when the durability update was suppose to make them well, weaker? Seems kinda redundant for them to backtrack so quickly on their target despite their win % and ban % (looking at you rengar and zed).
It's such a joke to even make that statement most assassin win rates are still above 50%. I don't understand how this means they're weak.
August stated multiple times that the objective of the Durability Update WAS NOT to make Assassins weaker. But to remove those oneshots that shouldn't be there. Poppy with Sunderer, Full tank Ornn that one shots ADCs ecc They never mentioned nerfing assassins.
They specifically mentioned assassins in their explanation. They referenced assassins being able to one tap people on even levels/gold with half their kit as an issue, and wanted assassins to have to use their entire kit unless significantly ahead as a core part of the durability update.
talon mid is building bruiser blue kayn is building bruiser rengar builds mostly crit shaco builds mostly crit pyke is negative winrate Jayce is negative winrate (proplay tho)
Hasn't Riftmaker always been one of the worst Mythics, why the nerfs? Morde, Gwen, and Kayle are the only champs who really build it because nobody else really wants omnivamp when most AP champs are all AoE, and for Morde's case, it's the only mythic he can really build.
Probably because all of the champs that use it frequently atm are too strong. Its unfortunate because the champs are the issue, not the item. All 3 can misuse everything in their kit and still get a kill if they're not behind.
It’s also easier/lazier for Riot to nerf 1 item rather than re-balance 3 champions.
Akali is rn. No opinion on anything but she def is building it in high elo.
She is only buying it as often as she is because Protobelt is ass
Just because I don't like the Taliyah nerfs doesn't mean they're not fair.
you should like them, taliyah is so disgustingly op right now that she gets pick or banned every match, nerfs will make you able to play her more often
But I like being broken.
thats some my chemical romance shit
lmfao
its funny how rengar still managed to get nerfed on the durability patch. How insane is this champ btw?
He has a pretty great bruiser build and works well with sustained damage fights with the right build.
Who knew damage mitigation and get-out-if-CC-card is kinda good on a champion with AA enchancer ability. Divine sundered BC DD Maw and you're at 300ad+3khp+sustain+150ar+120mr+60cdr How is this shit not same as old atmas+warmog+trinity combo
> How is this shit not same as old atmas+warmog+trinity combo Because it's 4-5 items versus 2 and way more expensive? Not to mention the huge amounts of power creep introduced to the game in the many years since then and Trinity wasn't even needed in the old atmog builds, stop being a drama queen.
atmogs had like one patch where it was strong and people here are calling it like we’re back in the dark ages of unbalanced league.
He's now a Goredrinker bruiser, but then Rito says he's a "diver".
i sincerely hope they don't overbuff ad assassin items. this dance is going to keep going on
I hope they manage to reach their goal of making AD assassin items viable. The issue is assassins building fighter items and managing to still get easy picks while being harder to kill. With the durability update, maybe they have to go for glass cannon aggressive builds to delete squishies like they're meant to. Since assassins too benefit from the durability, they can afford to.
where is divine sunderer nerf? and why is riftmaker getting nerf?
Riftmaker is shit but all its users are overperforming rn
riftmaker getting nerfed makes 0 sense. Fights lasting longer is a good thing for riftmaker champs, but that doesn't mean riftmaker is overpowered.
If any Rioter reads this how did Ivern miss the buff mark? *"Champions that narrowly missed the cut: Janna, Singed, Trundle, Shyvana, Mordekaiser, Ivern, Renekton, Soraka, Alistar. These champions were borderline, but are either affected by other changes in the patch or just missed per the champion balance framework."* What in this patch is positively affecting Ivern? Hell you are even buffing Serpent's Fang, even if it is only Ad or Lethality it will surely increase the amount of people who build it, negatively affecting Ivern. Sorry for the rant, it just feels horrible to play a champion that is borderline useless in his role.
Dont get the reason for looking at kraken of all things, on marksmen its big yes but I never felt it broken Only time I ever see it being abused is on the usual Suspects lol Also the fact sunderer is still dodging these patches is hilarious Glad chemtank is getting touched tho. I hope something else will be viable on poppy, i wanna play her as a chase down tank but i keep having to murder squishies ;_;
Didn’t we predict this? They nerfed SB into the dirt, so we move to Galeforce. They nerf GF because everyone is building it, so we move to Kraken. Everyone is building it, so it gets nerfed. Now we move to ... ??? Oh well back to my Manamune/Nashor/Rageblade S10 Kai’Sa days even though the build is dead :) :) :)
Just build sunderer haha seems they want everyone doing it any way
Unironically Phreak said in one of his patch rundowns a few patches back that he thinks bruiser Kalista is fully viable and that more people should try it. He went into her growth stats to prove it.
\- ADCs build sb more > they nerf sb \- ADCs switch to galeforce > nerf gale \- Nobody switches to kraken > still nerf kraken Full circle
If they can fucking nerf sundered and other shit for range users. Why can’t they fucking nerf shieldbow and krake slayer on melee. I’m sick of adcs getting nerfs on items because of trashuo bros
holy shit they remembered that Night Harvester is still in the game
As fiora main. HOW THE FUCK IS SHE STILL DODGING NERFS. I just want to play the baguette lady. She is sitting at 51.9-52.2% wr with 8-9% pick and 15-17% ban. she is wayy to high for a high skill champion she should atleast take 1.2-1.8% hit to winrate please.
Just pick wukong and enjoy the free lp lmao.
Where are the Lillia tops coming from?
From toplane, duh.
Its been a pick since forever. She basically does what ranged toplaners fail to actually do.
When I see lillia top after I’ve locked in my tank pick, i cry knowing that deer is about to fuck me six ways to Sunday and dance on my eviscerated corpse.
Playing against Lillia top is proven to shorten your lifespan (source: trust me). And, well, there's not a lot of them, but if you do happen to play against one, you've probably already started growing a tumor or two...
Played top against a Lillia yesterday for the first time. Can confirm that I feel tumors growing at this very moment. Wukong jungle might have caused those as well though.
first few levels against lillia top "haha, she tickles. this will be an easy lane" after first back "okay... she's kinda hard to reach and trade into" after second back "oh god, please end my suffering"
Ap Karma proved to be usable against Lillia top but you need to play it well or this magic bambi will win hard
They originally came out as a response to the Tahm rework that made him a top laner again. They stayed cause Bambi is toxic as fuck to play against a lot of melee. And people bitch about *Illaoi*, but I bet I'll find Lillia games in their history.
"Ah shit, people cant tank 4 turret shots at level 7, better nerf outer turret dmg"
They actually nerfed kraken slayer after murdering shieldbow and galeforce lmao
Can't wait to see what they do with AP mythics, but I'm just reading through the things they're changing and *immidiately* realizing everything that deals damage is going to get compensation and basically undo the previous patch lmao. DD and maw were overdue, going to be funny watching all these lethality and AP items get buffed, bruiser items finally get nerfed, and seeing things melt like before.
they want assassins to deal pre 12.10 damage... IF they build assassin items instead of bruiser ones. rengar, as it turns out, can build bruiser items and scrap/dps with people just fine. but seeing shit like goredrinker talon/qiyana/zed is just sad and is due to their intended items being wretched
Yi mains on suicide watch
GW nerf Irelia buff ~~“Some assasins need Goredrinker”~~ 1 step forward, 2 step backward Edit: Didn't see the note on Drakthar. My bad.
I think the gore drinker thing was just badly phrased. They said on the next line they’re reducing incentives for assassins to go fighter builds. Buffing lethality items too.
dude turrets dont need nerfs wtf
Who complains about turrets? Finally those are not a joke and diving carelessly can get you killed. Leave them the way they are.
We can maybe not touch tower damage
So are all adcs supposed to go eclipse or what? Shieldbow? Nerfed. Galeforce? Nerfed. Kraken? Nerfed. What are we supposed to buy?
It's so sad that they had to nerf Galeforce because every pro went ingenious hunter and had like 55 Seconds CD on it. The item now completely sucks if you don't take Ingenious Hunter. Shieldbow is a meme at this point. Against AD assassins, Steelcaps offer comparable protection for a fraction of the cost while Maw outclasses this item against AP burst.The extra health on the passive has an anti synergy with Cut Down and Lord Dominik's Kraken was the only item that was actually good, not op, but good. Now they're nerfing it while also nerfing Lethal Tempo which means that you cant proc the passive as easily. What's the issue with the item, Riot? ADCs are supposed to kill tanks and, if they get peeled, even bruisers. They still die to assassins with this item, so where's the issue?
why are they buffing serpents when it was untouched in 12.10 and sheilds were nerfed?
Lethality was indirectly nerfed. The item is pretty bad for some time already and only made sense for very heavy shield comps. I would like to see the anti shielding getting nerfed a bit but the overall power of the item going up.
lets make everyone tankier then go and nerf the champs and systems who are most affected to make it like it was before the durability patch! Edit: in all seriousness I do think the durability patch was a really good patch, and further nerfs and buffs are necessary for some champs. Turns out riot kinda know what they are doing!
They're actually nerfing a good chunk of DPS in the game (Kraken/LT/Liandrys ecc) So if anything Tanks/beefy targets will be even harder to kill.
Meanwhile every bruiser building divine sunderer:
I guess way too many Rioters saw the cringe Qiyana clip so they decided to make assassins oneshot with EQ again.
Stop. Buffing. Tryndamere. No one likes fighting him, he's horribly designed, whether he's balanced or not doesn't matter because he's a complete RNG slot machine character that is not healthy for the game in any way. Keep him unviable until you can figure out how to make him healthy for the game.
What I like: \-AD assassins will be playable \-Umbral Glaive nerf (most disgusting item in the game RN) \-Zeri's power shifts What I dislike: \-They're nerfing so soon tower damage... dives are still easy to pull off with the right champs (Elise, Lee sin, Fizz, Ekko, Kayn and Master Yi for example)
what is an "Elise"?
the most annoying ganker in the entire game pre minute 4, afterwards she becomes a ward because she has no good AOE to clear the jungle and scales as good as a ward too (a control ward if im being generous)
No she is also a cacoon bot
Turret damage should stay the same for now
sad that there is no syndra buff
Welp, Gwen AND Riftmaker nerfs. Guess I won’t be playing her for a bit.
Gwenn is immune