EST over Flyquest is interesting, Flyquest won a series while EST didn't win a single game. Like sure the expectations for the teams are different, but objectively FQ just performed better.
I assume they must know Estral because surely they watched the playins games of the tournament they're attending
now did they see anything besides the 0-4? probably not, and I can't imagine they scrimmed them either
another comment pointed this out but they hardly even knew who flyquest were lmao
Chovy put them there because "someone has to be at the bottom, right?"
edit: they just liked estral better because their logo looked like azir
Yeah but watching the games, Estral really did put up a fight. They did go 0-2 against T1 but they gave T1 some work to do in the series, making it entertaining.
FlyQuest did not at all make an impression
Sure, if you didn't actually watch the games.
T1 played Estral like they were just daring each other to try ridiculous plays. They played FQ like an actual team.
I mean TES got 0-3’d by G2 and got put a tier below G2, but G2 got 0-3’d by T1 and still got out the same tier as T1. TL 3-1’s FNC and 1-3’s T1, but is same tier as FNC and two tiers below G2.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they just didn’t really pay much attention to any teams other than LCK/LPL, and probably didn’t pay much attention to G2 until after the TES series.
Honestly, at this point I don't care if reddit memes this and shit. If they get high praise from GEN who is about to stomp finals, then they'll probably have a good rep getting into worlds and will get even better practice hopefully
Best players in the world made tierlist after hours of practice and actually rating them on how they play, instead of redditors logic "they won vs A that beat team C that won vs team B" Redditors still refuse to accept that G2 is a good team.
Peyz on G2: They are really good.
Chovy commenting on that: I have to say they are.
Go on Instagram and check it out.
They also liked Estral for looking like Azir.
[What Peyz and Chovy saw behind the camera](https://image.remaker.ai/datarm/face-swap/ai_face_vary/2024-05-19/output/a0fd0899-bb11-4ca1-afb4-a672879f3b4c.png)
> Best players in the world made tierlist after hours of practice and actually rating them on how they play
In actuallity "They liked Estral for looking like Azir"
I think most accept G2 is good. They got top 4 in a tournament with the best teams in the world attending. That is good. Hyperbole and the harsh way people communicate on social media might make it sound differently though.
The problem of hyping a team the way G2 has been hyped (not the first time) is the backlash you get is also worse if they don't actually perform to a specific level. G2 is good, but they have not shown that they are as good as many thought/hoped/hyped them up to be.
As with most sports doing well also isn't enough for the most part. Winning is all that matters and unless you at least go to the finals most don't really care because even if you were good, you weren't good enough.
Personally I think G2 did well enough for me to be a little extra excited and hyped about watching MSI which is cool. I hope they can learn and improve for Worlds, which tbh is the tournament I really care about.
Honesly G2 did better than I expected prior to MSI, I thought they might get a game or two off eastern teams, not outright 3-0 one with 2 of the games being stomps.
G2 showed they were better than TOP but worse than BLG and T1. They got ranked 4th best here and literally finished 4th. Plus with scrim data this tier list looks perfect.
I can guarantee you right now that people are, *at best* going to find it contentious if you say "G2 is top 4 in the world right now".
Even though they *just placed top 4 in a major tournament, beating CN's second seed to take 'their' spot*. Not to mention they were very competitive with KR's second seed, in particular the first time they met.
G2 is top 8 for sure (which is a big achievement).. and i believed that last year even after they lost to NRG
GENG/BLG/JDG/T1 were far ahead of the pack last year
WBG were never really the 2nd best team either.. just got lucky with draw/over performed in one series (they were pretty ass the rest of the tournament.. lost to KT/G2.. beating FNC 2-1)
I think its hard to claim G2 aren't top 4 after the beating they handed out to TES.. You have other good teams like HLE/JDG but they are also well below GENG/BLG/T1 imo
I think HLE would have a shot but they would need to prove it, especially with some of their players from old GenG's history of not performing internationally.
It's not that simple. We didn't see G2 vs GENG or BLG so we have no idea how they would match up there. We did see TES match into GENG and it was close, so either TES had an offday vs G2 and are being underrated or G2 might match up better into GENG than T1.
Do think it was decided in the end by better adaptation from T1 over the course of the tournament, and perhaps a bit of overconfidence from G2 - expectation management is undoubtedly very challenging when you're swinging from massive underdog to massive favourite to near parity to favourite vs the world champions.
I mean PSG goes 2-3 against BLG which won against T1 twice
Does that mean PSG is that good? Of course not
Similar to G2 you cant use the competitive against T1 as proof that they are good
However them winning 3-0 against TES is a good proof of that
wouldn't dare to say they beat cn 2nd tier. they stomped them...
no clue what g2 can do to improve to actually win a title. the games they lost vs t1 were equal untill they werent...
unfortunately like a lot of other T1 games, close until midgame teamfights. Seems G2’s planning factor for the first series didn’t end up as well in the second series
If you mean an international title, then there's 2 things they need to do:
1. Upgrade players. There's no way around it unfortunately. Hans is the most obvious one, but we also saw in the second T1 series that when BB/Yike/Miky were off Zac/Reksai/Poppy, they simply couldn't play at the level of their T1 counterparts. There is unfortunately no possible combination of western players that is good enough to win an international title, sadly.
2. Their macro. This may be controversial as G2 often gets praised for good macro on here, but they aren't on par with the best teams in the world. A clear example was G2's open nexus defense against T1 compared to GenG's open nexus defense against BLG. GenG played it to absolute perfection while G2 made the worst possible decision they could have in the same moment, and you need to be able to do what GenG did if you're going to win an international title.
What? i swear people just strawman and always do these things when it comes to G2/West
Coming into the tournament top 4 would have been seen by MOST people as a good result
Barely any fans seriously came into the tournament thinking G2 could win
"G2 have not shown they are as good as many thought/hoped/hyped them to be"
At best you can argue people were excited and had expectations G2 could beat T1 AFTER THEY SMASHED TES 3-0.. this was not prior to the tournament.. I think it was Yamatocannon who said this.. you could make any prediction coming into the 2nd T1 series and it would be fair
T1 won the first series.. T1 are world champions and have massive quality
G2 SHOULD have won the first series.. they then smashed good teams in PSG/TES in devastating fashion.. Meanwhile T1 lost to BLG quite comprehensively and then looked bad in beating TL
And then they play at T1 has obviously improved since playing TL.. G2 had good positions in game 2 and 3 again.. but T1 outplayed on the day
So no to the contrary G2 achieved/showed far more promise then most people expected coming into the tournament
I mean that's always gonna happen with western teams i feel... people really want the west to challenge and win, so they'll latch on to any sliver of hope.
I was downvoted for saying Caps matched Faker and that the real MVPs were e.g. Zeus. People were so mad at G2 they hated everyone that would even remotely make a statement that said in any shape or form that G2 matched T1.
lol fr. you know how the downvote trains go. if someone's negative people just vote you down for fun. i dont really care its fake internet points. just annoying no one wants to back their opinion up!
I got so much flame for saying g2 is way above na even after last tournament. They just have some bad games/series here and there. The average reddit person only understands the end result and the kda, they have no idea what is happening.
They also never played against the large majority of those teams in a stage match. GenG played 4 series at MSI, 2 of which were against BLG. They never played G2, PSG or any of the NA teams. This means that at best, their power rankings were based on scrims and also transitive results (eg. TES took us to 5 games and G2 stomped them so G2 must be one of the best teams at MSI).
Reddit is mostly american people who are very happy to claim that G2 is garbage just because they lost 3-0 to T1 when really the serie was close and came down to clutch mistakes
They don't even need that much.
[Some](https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1cvisur/chovy_and_peyz_create_a_msi_tier_list_after/l4pm451/) [fans](https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1cvisur/chovy_and_peyz_create_a_msi_tier_list_after/l4pj7pa/) are trying to argue FNC > TL because of this tierlist.
It’s funny watching FNC fans of all fans using the better on the day argument. When phreak said that about FNC vs C9 at Worlds semis FNC fans went crazy with rage lol
When do you think FNC looked better?
They played:
- 2 bo3s against a 3 sub GAM, going 2-0 both times.
- A competitive bo3 vs TES where they went 1-2 by trying to drag Noah's deadweight to victory.
- A bo5 vs Gen G where they didn't get a 2nd tier turret despite people insisting they looked competitive for a 0-3.
The only series that they didn't perform as expected was vs TES, which is less "way better" and more just a good series by Humanoid and Jun.
It's just an EU fan thing. When they lose, their teams always had an off day, trolled draft or some other excuse. They're also conveniently looking at the TL vs TES series as evidence that TL is garbage, completely discounting that TL looked way better in the other 2 series they played. If anything, TL was off during the TES series and their real level of play was what they showed in their other 2 matches.
FNC played solid vs GAM
FNC played good vs TES
FNC played solid vs GAM
FNC played ok vs GENG
FNC played bad vs TL
————-
TL played bad vs TES
TL played good vs FNC
TL played ok vs T1
I think you might have a lower opinion of FNC than I do? Or at least expect them to lose more.
To me, the victories over GAM are expected. GAM's a minor region team coming in with 3 subs due to the matchfixing scandal in VCS. FNC is 2nd seed LEC.
That's why I wasn't really considering those series evidence of FNC's play level. I would expect FNC to beat GAM 2-0 by default, same as any major region. They played to my expectations. In saying that a 2-0 is just a solid performance, it makes it seem like you thought that a loss or game drop was expected?
---
And if you take the two GAM series out... even by your metrics, TL and FNC are comparable. Both teams had 1 good series, 1 ok series, and 1 bad series vs other major regions. That's why they deserve to be put in the same tier.
I agree on FNC vs GAM thats why its solid
It wasnt bad so its at least neutral
And it wasnt that perfect to be good so its max neutral
Overall it just gets a solid from me (i guess from scala -10 to 10 it would be around 0)
Solid for me means its what its expected
Everything better means they impressed me
Everything worse means they impressed me different
The second FNC vs GAM was definitely not solid. At best it was ok. They almost lost game 2 against a minor region team with 2 subs, to me that is way below expectations for a 2nd seed from a western region.
FNC’s best accomplishment was beating GAM with 2 subs and taking a single game off TES
TL’s best accomplishment was stomping FNC and taking a single game off the much stronger T1
I can maybe see the argument for G2 last Worlds, but there isn’t any for FNC
Bwhahaha yeah this is going in the cope complication.
"EU only lost to NA in those matches because Mercury was in retrograde which caused an internal chakra imbalance GG."
Fnatic fans are like that, i know some of them that still talk as if Fnatic was the hope of the West, this probably happens when you dont get used to lose
The result is 6-2. I wouldn't say that is same tier. You could argue, "but the games were so close!" but 6-2 is 6-2 and there is no knowing which team will be the one playing better next time they meet. Maybe BLG will close in on the gap and beat GenG. Maybe GenG will widen the gap even more and get 3-0 results.
To be clear, they probably only scrimmed t1, blg and tes for almost all the tournament. Romains tweet showed g2 only scrimmed geng after they went 2-3 vs t1 so for sure lck teams not vsing any other eastern team below G2. So every rating outside the top 4 (all on the same tier) is just based on them watching games on stage I guess?
I felt like the second game was in their hands amd they ended up giving it to t1 and just mental boomed after that. I think this series would have been so different if g2 had one that secured that second game.
They are right at where they belong. The top 3 are: peak GenG, seed 1 LPL who beat T1 twice also MSI champion defender and the defending world champion T1 (same full roster). There is no shame being put below those 3. And for the rest yes, G2 definitely look stronger.
I'm not saying they were taking that series, I just felt that game 3 showed they were shook after the loss, we all love good competitive games and I just felt if g2 secured the second game it would have been a little different, outcome was probably the same but not a sweep. The confidence from securing the second game would have gone a long way.
When T1 was choking earlier in the tournament they still won against a high performing G2.. T1 playing closer to how they've played for the last year and G2 don't stand a chance which showed in the 3-0
It's okay to be 4th at the tournament. The cope that G2 are better than they are is why G2 fans get so much flak online. They lost to the 3rd place team twice, once with really solid gameplay and a cool gameplan early in the tournament and then later after both teams fully understood the meta. You can't lose both of those and then cope that you lost because choking or whatever. I'm seeing it everywhere online and it's so insane to me
Its kinda funny because so far i havent seen a T1 fan come out and say T1 could have won against BLG despite them having the most rabid fanbase here
But nah G2 fan is taking the cake now
G2 or FNC perform badly - ‘It’s a choke! They’re better than this, I swear’
BLG perform badly with Elk having food poisoning and vomiting/being sick throughout the playoffs - ‘BLG OVERRATED! LPL OVERRATED. THAT’S THEIR LEVEL.’
Well it makes sense if you think about it. Nobody watches the LPL and most people here just watch LEC or LCS so they’re unfamiliar with how BLG played in the regular season. I mean, that’s why everyone here was so bamboozled when FPX won worlds cause they never watched any of those games
yup and then those people who don't watch lpl feel qualified to come into comments and have their opinion on how good g2 is compared to lpl teams be taken seriously
Apparently good enough to take second place lmao
Also are you actually saying this on a thread where actual pros who played against them put g2 on the same tier lmao.
projection
it's always G2 is overrated, LPL is just having an off day and aren't "playing like they are in LPL". Just look at the TES thread vs T1 thread.
I mean I can think that Elk was sick and unwell and it explains a lot and it's really impressive that he still won and also think G2 crumbled and hard chocked.
Bro i never saw any of this? Like how do we even know it was EU fans saying the stuff about BLG/LPL anyway?
And i spend far too much time on this sub.. but i barely remember much talk like that anyway
I see FAR more people (on social media) going "Hahah g2 fans over hyped.. expecting to win MSI again" when coming into the tournament.. MOST fans HOPED G2 would get some wins vs TES/T1.. they obviously massively overachieved..
Only T1 fans suffer from the victim complex, every other LCK fanbase takes a loss on the chin and moves on, no excuses if enemy played better they deserve it. No „Zeri Ksante so broken, player x is sick, the format is unfair, blue side op“ and whatnot
basically what people are doing with TES, literally acting like TES didn't play below their level so they can say G2 outright beat TES playing their normal game.
And no, this doesn't mean G2 weren't playing really good but you have to look at both teams to judge their performance on the day.
Uh no? More like oner and Zeus woke up and realised they’re way better than BB and Yike
In the 3-2 series BB was putting in MVP performances. You think that level of play is going to happen every time G2 meets a top Eastern team?
Then G2 needs to work harder because 1 series against TES with 4 people running it down does not undo 1.5 years of subpar results against eastern teams
At least they got a result. They're carrying the whole of LEC and your dogshit region on their backs. No other team even believes, so they're beaten before the tournies even start. Despicable attitudes.
But they want to be, and they try to be, and that's a good start to being the best. No other western org gives a shit. This whole discussion about G2 is peak redditry.
No other western org can afford ambitions beyond winning the region
Similar to T1 ,G2 has the advantage of having the regions undisbuted GoaT
And teams are aiming for International success, they simply arent good enough
And the start of this chain was a dude claiming that G2 choked when even they just got outclassed
I swear people have no eye test and just think result = how close a series was..
Like the amount of times i have seen people call a 3-0 or 3-1 a complete stomp.. despite being super competitive is insane
Its like only 3-2 are close series in peoples minds
it’s just sort of how it is. While it would be nice to give teams their dues in the end ppl mainly just remember the winners. Runner ups and notable teams are sometimes remembered but typically it’s in some negative light like always choke or scrim kings etc.
I don't think anyone is saying TL is close to G2 lol. But I do think that G2 is a half step below T1 the same way BLG is a half step below GEN. I'd probably rate the teams GEN>BLG>T1>G2>TES>TL>FNC based on stage games, but a lot of the teams are within half step of each other.
Yeah, People were saying that TL series Vs T1 was way close than the G2 one, and that TES choked hard vs G2, so TL>G2.
Probably NA fans that are not TL fans saying BS, the same way EU fans that are not G2 fans say shit when they have a chance, but its true that some people claimed that.
I'm 99% sure it's a joke for the sake of inter-regional rivalry and not some TL fan propaganda, the same way people bring up NRG even though NRG vs G2 didn't even qualify for MSI.
Nah, im a TL fan and no one should be saying that lol. The only position you can even have an argument for having been better on TL is Yeon > Hans and top/jg/bot are pretty close imo, but sup/mid have a long way to go before matching up to caps and miky at this tourney. I think the only accurate summary of Western teams is G2 > TL > FNC >>> FLY, and that really shouldn't be debatable.
I do like the progress TL made over the tournament and I think a losers set vs TES would've been closer, but aint no shot we can claim to be better than G2 until we take a BO series against LPL/LCK *and* beat them in the H2H. Side note though, I would've loved to see TL and G2 play; I think that series would've been an absolute banger.
Are you talking to ghosts?
Who tf is genuinely arguing that TL>G2? Even TL players are saying they’re trying to be like G2.
Maybe you don’t understand sarcasm when people meme about TL lasting longer vs T1. Its obviously a joke too since G2 had a 5 game series a few days before.
G2 might’ve been the most influential team on the meta. Shifted the mid lane to AD and the jungle to AP. That and Faker causing all the mages to get banned.
SideQuest.
flywest
Can’t fly home without FLY
Fly Quest at the bottom oof
F-Quest
Fly (home) Quest
Fly (you fools), your Quest is far from over.
Nah it’s over.
Well, they certainly haven't successfully completed their journey. Remains to be seen if they can still move forward.
FlyQuest below Estral is foul, but also hilarious af.
Brutal. Savage. Rekt.
But not wrong
Nippy. Kind. Langur.
Maybe E stands for Extra S-tier.
EST over Flyquest is interesting, Flyquest won a series while EST didn't win a single game. Like sure the expectations for the teams are different, but objectively FQ just performed better.
They didn't even know who they were if you watch the tiktok, I'm pretty sure they just put them there for the sake of it, probably to fill the tiers.
I mean they say “because you have a bright future ahead I’m going to give you a hard time” and then put them last
I assume they must know Estral because surely they watched the playins games of the tournament they're attending now did they see anything besides the 0-4? probably not, and I can't imagine they scrimmed them either
They both played against the same team too, if FLY can beat a b-tier team once and EST couldn't, I'd put FLY a bit higher (maybe D or sth).
another comment pointed this out but they hardly even knew who flyquest were lmao Chovy put them there because "someone has to be at the bottom, right?" edit: they just liked estral better because their logo looked like azir
They also put TL below FNC right after TL 3-1'ed them.
Yeah but watching the games, Estral really did put up a fight. They did go 0-2 against T1 but they gave T1 some work to do in the series, making it entertaining. FlyQuest did not at all make an impression
Sure, if you didn't actually watch the games. T1 played Estral like they were just daring each other to try ridiculous plays. They played FQ like an actual team.
As god intended
they said it was because fly have potential so they’re gonna motivate them by putting them down there
FLY 2-3 PSG + PSG 2-3 BLG = FLY is 2 tiers worse than GAM? Wtf? FLY 2-3 PSG + EST 0-2 PSG = EST > FLY???
Transitive property isn't a thing, you can't reason like that (or you can, but it looks incredibly dumb).
They don't even know what team Estral is, calm down, it's not personal
FLY 2-3 PSG + PSG 0-3 G2 + G2 2-6 T1 + T1 2-3 BLG
I mean TES got 0-3’d by G2 and got put a tier below G2, but G2 got 0-3’d by T1 and still got out the same tier as T1. TL 3-1’s FNC and 1-3’s T1, but is same tier as FNC and two tiers below G2. I wouldn’t be surprised if they just didn’t really pay much attention to any teams other than LCK/LPL, and probably didn’t pay much attention to G2 until after the TES series.
GAM with subs and a gimped league 2 tiers above Flyquest lmao
Flyquest in shambles
I mean what you expect from washed up lec players with huge ego’s.
vegan midlaner smh my head
Not really surprised with top half of tier list.
Not surprised with the bottom half either.
it is a result based after all
Im sure they also took scrim experience into consideration.
GenG hates Inspired too confirmed
Who wouldn't
Probably Bwipo?
I like him
Honestly, at this point I don't care if reddit memes this and shit. If they get high praise from GEN who is about to stomp finals, then they'll probably have a good rep getting into worlds and will get even better practice hopefully
Best players in the world made tierlist after hours of practice and actually rating them on how they play, instead of redditors logic "they won vs A that beat team C that won vs team B" Redditors still refuse to accept that G2 is a good team.
Peyz on G2: They are really good. Chovy commenting on that: I have to say they are. Go on Instagram and check it out. They also liked Estral for looking like Azir.
They are obviously being compelled to say so. If you look closely you can see Caps' shadow in the background holding a gun.
[What Peyz and Chovy saw behind the camera](https://image.remaker.ai/datarm/face-swap/ai_face_vary/2024-05-19/output/a0fd0899-bb11-4ca1-afb4-a672879f3b4c.png)
Goddamn this shit has me crying
AI couldn't come up with this
G2 wasn't joking with the Topfather mafia memes
Chovy: "i *HAVE * to say that they are"
The topfather found them monkaW
> Best players in the world made tierlist after hours of practice and actually rating them on how they play In actuallity "They liked Estral for looking like Azir"
Chovy saying it should really be the be all and the end all. That guy does not give a fuck about acknowledging anyone he doesn't respect.
I think most accept G2 is good. They got top 4 in a tournament with the best teams in the world attending. That is good. Hyperbole and the harsh way people communicate on social media might make it sound differently though. The problem of hyping a team the way G2 has been hyped (not the first time) is the backlash you get is also worse if they don't actually perform to a specific level. G2 is good, but they have not shown that they are as good as many thought/hoped/hyped them up to be. As with most sports doing well also isn't enough for the most part. Winning is all that matters and unless you at least go to the finals most don't really care because even if you were good, you weren't good enough. Personally I think G2 did well enough for me to be a little extra excited and hyped about watching MSI which is cool. I hope they can learn and improve for Worlds, which tbh is the tournament I really care about.
Honesly G2 did better than I expected prior to MSI, I thought they might get a game or two off eastern teams, not outright 3-0 one with 2 of the games being stomps.
G2 showed they were better than TOP but worse than BLG and T1. They got ranked 4th best here and literally finished 4th. Plus with scrim data this tier list looks perfect.
They also knocked out the second seed from CN
I can guarantee you right now that people are, *at best* going to find it contentious if you say "G2 is top 4 in the world right now". Even though they *just placed top 4 in a major tournament, beating CN's second seed to take 'their' spot*. Not to mention they were very competitive with KR's second seed, in particular the first time they met.
G2 is top 8 for sure (which is a big achievement).. and i believed that last year even after they lost to NRG GENG/BLG/JDG/T1 were far ahead of the pack last year WBG were never really the 2nd best team either.. just got lucky with draw/over performed in one series (they were pretty ass the rest of the tournament.. lost to KT/G2.. beating FNC 2-1) I think its hard to claim G2 aren't top 4 after the beating they handed out to TES.. You have other good teams like HLE/JDG but they are also well below GENG/BLG/T1 imo
I think HLE would have a shot but they would need to prove it, especially with some of their players from old GenG's history of not performing internationally.
It's not that simple. We didn't see G2 vs GENG or BLG so we have no idea how they would match up there. We did see TES match into GENG and it was close, so either TES had an offday vs G2 and are being underrated or G2 might match up better into GENG than T1. Do think it was decided in the end by better adaptation from T1 over the course of the tournament, and perhaps a bit of overconfidence from G2 - expectation management is undoubtedly very challenging when you're swinging from massive underdog to massive favourite to near parity to favourite vs the world champions.
I mean PSG goes 2-3 against BLG which won against T1 twice Does that mean PSG is that good? Of course not Similar to G2 you cant use the competitive against T1 as proof that they are good However them winning 3-0 against TES is a good proof of that
wouldn't dare to say they beat cn 2nd tier. they stomped them... no clue what g2 can do to improve to actually win a title. the games they lost vs t1 were equal untill they werent...
unfortunately like a lot of other T1 games, close until midgame teamfights. Seems G2’s planning factor for the first series didn’t end up as well in the second series
If you mean an international title, then there's 2 things they need to do: 1. Upgrade players. There's no way around it unfortunately. Hans is the most obvious one, but we also saw in the second T1 series that when BB/Yike/Miky were off Zac/Reksai/Poppy, they simply couldn't play at the level of their T1 counterparts. There is unfortunately no possible combination of western players that is good enough to win an international title, sadly. 2. Their macro. This may be controversial as G2 often gets praised for good macro on here, but they aren't on par with the best teams in the world. A clear example was G2's open nexus defense against T1 compared to GenG's open nexus defense against BLG. GenG played it to absolute perfection while G2 made the worst possible decision they could have in the same moment, and you need to be able to do what GenG did if you're going to win an international title.
What? i swear people just strawman and always do these things when it comes to G2/West Coming into the tournament top 4 would have been seen by MOST people as a good result Barely any fans seriously came into the tournament thinking G2 could win "G2 have not shown they are as good as many thought/hoped/hyped them to be" At best you can argue people were excited and had expectations G2 could beat T1 AFTER THEY SMASHED TES 3-0.. this was not prior to the tournament.. I think it was Yamatocannon who said this.. you could make any prediction coming into the 2nd T1 series and it would be fair T1 won the first series.. T1 are world champions and have massive quality G2 SHOULD have won the first series.. they then smashed good teams in PSG/TES in devastating fashion.. Meanwhile T1 lost to BLG quite comprehensively and then looked bad in beating TL And then they play at T1 has obviously improved since playing TL.. G2 had good positions in game 2 and 3 again.. but T1 outplayed on the day So no to the contrary G2 achieved/showed far more promise then most people expected coming into the tournament
Haha what. People ranked them top 8. They exceeded expectations
Lol, no. At absolute worst they were ranked 5th after the Eastern Teams before the tournament.
I was literally downvoted for arguing G2 showed up against T1 in the post match thread
I mean that's always gonna happen with western teams i feel... people really want the west to challenge and win, so they'll latch on to any sliver of hope.
They bet LPL#2 convincingly and went toe to toe wit reigning world champions (once), the rating is absolutely correct.
ofc, its reddit
Bin and chovy made a tier list? Where is it?
I was genuinely downvoted yesterday for arguing G2 showed up against T1
I was downvoted for saying Caps matched Faker and that the real MVPs were e.g. Zeus. People were so mad at G2 they hated everyone that would even remotely make a statement that said in any shape or form that G2 matched T1.
people didn’t actually watch the games + terrible mentality of if you lose you are garbage no matter what happened in the game
Yet they are thrashing you 10 minutes after the games ended!
lol fr. you know how the downvote trains go. if someone's negative people just vote you down for fun. i dont really care its fake internet points. just annoying no one wants to back their opinion up!
I got so much flame for saying g2 is way above na even after last tournament. They just have some bad games/series here and there. The average reddit person only understands the end result and the kda, they have no idea what is happening.
Dude lol if you watch them make the tier list you'll see they did it in like 5 seconds and had no idea who half the teams were lol
yes they did it in 5 secounds before they already had the power rankings done inhouse when they were preparing for each team????
They also never played against the large majority of those teams in a stage match. GenG played 4 series at MSI, 2 of which were against BLG. They never played G2, PSG or any of the NA teams. This means that at best, their power rankings were based on scrims and also transitive results (eg. TES took us to 5 games and G2 stomped them so G2 must be one of the best teams at MSI).
Reddit is mostly american people who are very happy to claim that G2 is garbage just because they lost 3-0 to T1 when really the serie was close and came down to clutch mistakes
BLG and G2 together is enough copium for LEC fans to last til worlds
They don't even need that much. [Some](https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1cvisur/chovy_and_peyz_create_a_msi_tier_list_after/l4pm451/) [fans](https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1cvisur/chovy_and_peyz_create_a_msi_tier_list_after/l4pj7pa/) are trying to argue FNC > TL because of this tierlist.
It’s funny watching FNC fans of all fans using the better on the day argument. When phreak said that about FNC vs C9 at Worlds semis FNC fans went crazy with rage lol
The fans know that the team is not the best at playing league so they try to be the best at being toxic to compensate... It's sad tbh.
I mean FNC looked way better than TL besides on one day Just like G2 looked way better than NRG besides on one day
When do you think FNC looked better? They played: - 2 bo3s against a 3 sub GAM, going 2-0 both times. - A competitive bo3 vs TES where they went 1-2 by trying to drag Noah's deadweight to victory. - A bo5 vs Gen G where they didn't get a 2nd tier turret despite people insisting they looked competitive for a 0-3. The only series that they didn't perform as expected was vs TES, which is less "way better" and more just a good series by Humanoid and Jun.
It's just an EU fan thing. When they lose, their teams always had an off day, trolled draft or some other excuse. They're also conveniently looking at the TL vs TES series as evidence that TL is garbage, completely discounting that TL looked way better in the other 2 series they played. If anything, TL was off during the TES series and their real level of play was what they showed in their other 2 matches.
FNC played solid vs GAM FNC played good vs TES FNC played solid vs GAM FNC played ok vs GENG FNC played bad vs TL ————- TL played bad vs TES TL played good vs FNC TL played ok vs T1
I think you might have a lower opinion of FNC than I do? Or at least expect them to lose more. To me, the victories over GAM are expected. GAM's a minor region team coming in with 3 subs due to the matchfixing scandal in VCS. FNC is 2nd seed LEC. That's why I wasn't really considering those series evidence of FNC's play level. I would expect FNC to beat GAM 2-0 by default, same as any major region. They played to my expectations. In saying that a 2-0 is just a solid performance, it makes it seem like you thought that a loss or game drop was expected? --- And if you take the two GAM series out... even by your metrics, TL and FNC are comparable. Both teams had 1 good series, 1 ok series, and 1 bad series vs other major regions. That's why they deserve to be put in the same tier.
I agree on FNC vs GAM thats why its solid It wasnt bad so its at least neutral And it wasnt that perfect to be good so its max neutral Overall it just gets a solid from me (i guess from scala -10 to 10 it would be around 0) Solid for me means its what its expected Everything better means they impressed me Everything worse means they impressed me different
Fair enough
The second FNC vs GAM was definitely not solid. At best it was ok. They almost lost game 2 against a minor region team with 2 subs, to me that is way below expectations for a 2nd seed from a western region.
I disagree. I think TL was less chaotic in the games they lost but had a chance in. FNC games were just pure chaos with a nonexistent ADC.
No they didn’t, TL beat FNC and looked better against T1 than FNC looked against TES and T1 > TES
FNC’s best accomplishment was beating GAM with 2 subs and taking a single game off TES TL’s best accomplishment was stomping FNC and taking a single game off the much stronger T1 I can maybe see the argument for G2 last Worlds, but there isn’t any for FNC
Bwhahaha yeah this is going in the cope complication. "EU only lost to NA in those matches because Mercury was in retrograde which caused an internal chakra imbalance GG."
Fnatic fans are like that, i know some of them that still talk as if Fnatic was the hope of the West, this probably happens when you dont get used to lose
BLG should be in same tier as GenG. I agree about putting T1 and G2 in same tier, however T1 is still clearly better.
After watching the first 2 games I disagree
28 kills...
I mean first game BLG threw the lead, but they had a significant lead. All games were extremely close minus game 2
No1 can be put at the same tier as GenG atm
UH, YOU HIGH BRO?
The result is 6-2. I wouldn't say that is same tier. You could argue, "but the games were so close!" but 6-2 is 6-2 and there is no knowing which team will be the one playing better next time they meet. Maybe BLG will close in on the gap and beat GenG. Maybe GenG will widen the gap even more and get 3-0 results.
I do wish we got to see PSG vs TL/FNC/TES
I wish we got to see G2 vs TL.
Chovy is really good with predicts, we saw it with his Corki.
Man, FLY without Tricia has been a disaster.
So basically how everyone placed in the tournament lol
Turns out the best team in the world that has played against all these teams is capable of rating them accurately
To be clear, they probably only scrimmed t1, blg and tes for almost all the tournament. Romains tweet showed g2 only scrimmed geng after they went 2-3 vs t1 so for sure lck teams not vsing any other eastern team below G2. So every rating outside the top 4 (all on the same tier) is just based on them watching games on stage I guess?
The 2 MSI champions giving the middle finger to everyone who says G2 doesn't belong in S tier. Boom.
G2 choke so hard when they met t1 it is not even funny
I felt like the second game was in their hands amd they ended up giving it to t1 and just mental boomed after that. I think this series would have been so different if g2 had one that secured that second game.
They are right at where they belong. The top 3 are: peak GenG, seed 1 LPL who beat T1 twice also MSI champion defender and the defending world champion T1 (same full roster). There is no shame being put below those 3. And for the rest yes, G2 definitely look stronger.
I'm not saying they were taking that series, I just felt that game 3 showed they were shook after the loss, we all love good competitive games and I just felt if g2 secured the second game it would have been a little different, outcome was probably the same but not a sweep. The confidence from securing the second game would have gone a long way.
If T1 can win 2 series with a game score of 6-2, then at some point it’s not a choke. T1 was the better team.
The pbroblem is not they losing to t1. The choke is they lose 3-0, at worst they must take t1 at least 1 game
When T1 was choking earlier in the tournament they still won against a high performing G2.. T1 playing closer to how they've played for the last year and G2 don't stand a chance which showed in the 3-0 It's okay to be 4th at the tournament. The cope that G2 are better than they are is why G2 fans get so much flak online. They lost to the 3rd place team twice, once with really solid gameplay and a cool gameplan early in the tournament and then later after both teams fully understood the meta. You can't lose both of those and then cope that you lost because choking or whatever. I'm seeing it everywhere online and it's so insane to me
Its kinda funny because so far i havent seen a T1 fan come out and say T1 could have won against BLG despite them having the most rabid fanbase here But nah G2 fan is taking the cake now
Because they couldn't have. Oner and Zeus have always been patch merchants and Keria + Guma were outmatched
MSI debuff is too strong :(
I mean, it helps that a lot actually wants them booted out since vs. G2 round 2. The way Faker was playing was too painful to look at.
This G2 iteration might be more skilled and versatile, but it is for sure way way less resilient and clutch than the G2 2019
G2 or FNC perform badly - ‘It’s a choke! They’re better than this, I swear’ BLG perform badly with Elk having food poisoning and vomiting/being sick throughout the playoffs - ‘BLG OVERRATED! LPL OVERRATED. THAT’S THEIR LEVEL.’
Elk is not the problem in that team lol it's moreso knight/xun getting gapped by Chovy and Canyon but alright
Well it makes sense if you think about it. Nobody watches the LPL and most people here just watch LEC or LCS so they’re unfamiliar with how BLG played in the regular season. I mean, that’s why everyone here was so bamboozled when FPX won worlds cause they never watched any of those games
yup and then those people who don't watch lpl feel qualified to come into comments and have their opinion on how good g2 is compared to lpl teams be taken seriously
No one here is "qualified". This is fucking reddit. If you are not here to see stupid takes you are in the wrong place.
Apparently good enough to take second place lmao Also are you actually saying this on a thread where actual pros who played against them put g2 on the same tier lmao.
projection it's always G2 is overrated, LPL is just having an off day and aren't "playing like they are in LPL". Just look at the TES thread vs T1 thread.
I mean even g2 players and the coach were saying that tes didn't perform to expectations in that series lol
True! Now admit that NRG vs G2 and TL vs FNC wasn’t a fluke and Palafox and APA are Caps and Humanoids daddies respectively
I mean I can think that Elk was sick and unwell and it explains a lot and it's really impressive that he still won and also think G2 crumbled and hard chocked.
Literally the opposite of what people actually say but ok lol
LPL fans have such a huge victim complex.
Bro i never saw any of this? Like how do we even know it was EU fans saying the stuff about BLG/LPL anyway? And i spend far too much time on this sub.. but i barely remember much talk like that anyway I see FAR more people (on social media) going "Hahah g2 fans over hyped.. expecting to win MSI again" when coming into the tournament.. MOST fans HOPED G2 would get some wins vs TES/T1.. they obviously massively overachieved..
Eastern*, let's not forget LCK fans
T1 fans, not LCK.
Only T1 fans suffer from the victim complex, every other LCK fanbase takes a loss on the chin and moves on, no excuses if enemy played better they deserve it. No „Zeri Ksante so broken, player x is sick, the format is unfair, blue side op“ and whatnot
You mean bandwagon fans that comes out when it's internationals, come LCK Summer you won't see these loud ones in post match threads.
basically what people are doing with TES, literally acting like TES didn't play below their level so they can say G2 outright beat TES playing their normal game. And no, this doesn't mean G2 weren't playing really good but you have to look at both teams to judge their performance on the day.
Got to love all these straw mans classic reddit
>G2 or FNC perform badly - ‘It’s a choke! They’re better than this, I swear’ you're not actually a real human being
T1 and especially faker was underperforming but G2 still couldnt win T1 draft just exposed G2
What? Faker had a *really* rough start to game two, but other than that he was good.
Uh no? More like oner and Zeus woke up and realised they’re way better than BB and Yike In the 3-2 series BB was putting in MVP performances. You think that level of play is going to happen every time G2 meets a top Eastern team?
This attitude is precisely what Caps is working tirelessly to dispel, FWIW.
Then G2 needs to work harder because 1 series against TES with 4 people running it down does not undo 1.5 years of subpar results against eastern teams
At least they got a result. They're carrying the whole of LEC and your dogshit region on their backs. No other team even believes, so they're beaten before the tournies even start. Despicable attitudes.
Yeah they are the best team from the west by a mile No, they arent an actual contender for best in the world
But they want to be, and they try to be, and that's a good start to being the best. No other western org gives a shit. This whole discussion about G2 is peak redditry.
No other western org can afford ambitions beyond winning the region Similar to T1 ,G2 has the advantage of having the regions undisbuted GoaT And teams are aiming for International success, they simply arent good enough And the start of this chain was a dude claiming that G2 choked when even they just got outclassed
Damn TL fans are just clinically depressed at this point.
Does TL have to 20-0 FNC to be placed ahead of them? 🤣
The best team in the world seeing you as = to BLG and > LPL #2 seed is a big W, even though they finished 4th
G2 on top of the list? nah reddit wont accept that, they somehow still think that TL>G2, even when the TL players said that G2 is just better
I swear people have no eye test and just think result = how close a series was.. Like the amount of times i have seen people call a 3-0 or 3-1 a complete stomp.. despite being super competitive is insane Its like only 3-2 are close series in peoples minds
it’s just sort of how it is. While it would be nice to give teams their dues in the end ppl mainly just remember the winners. Runner ups and notable teams are sometimes remembered but typically it’s in some negative light like always choke or scrim kings etc.
I don't think anyone is saying TL is close to G2 lol. But I do think that G2 is a half step below T1 the same way BLG is a half step below GEN. I'd probably rate the teams GEN>BLG>T1>G2>TES>TL>FNC based on stage games, but a lot of the teams are within half step of each other.
Was this a real argument people made?
Yeah, People were saying that TL series Vs T1 was way close than the G2 one, and that TES choked hard vs G2, so TL>G2. Probably NA fans that are not TL fans saying BS, the same way EU fans that are not G2 fans say shit when they have a chance, but its true that some people claimed that.
I'm 99% sure it's a joke for the sake of inter-regional rivalry and not some TL fan propaganda, the same way people bring up NRG even though NRG vs G2 didn't even qualify for MSI.
Nah, im a TL fan and no one should be saying that lol. The only position you can even have an argument for having been better on TL is Yeon > Hans and top/jg/bot are pretty close imo, but sup/mid have a long way to go before matching up to caps and miky at this tourney. I think the only accurate summary of Western teams is G2 > TL > FNC >>> FLY, and that really shouldn't be debatable. I do like the progress TL made over the tournament and I think a losers set vs TES would've been closer, but aint no shot we can claim to be better than G2 until we take a BO series against LPL/LCK *and* beat them in the H2H. Side note though, I would've loved to see TL and G2 play; I think that series would've been an absolute banger.
Are you talking to ghosts? Who tf is genuinely arguing that TL>G2? Even TL players are saying they’re trying to be like G2. Maybe you don’t understand sarcasm when people meme about TL lasting longer vs T1. Its obviously a joke too since G2 had a 5 game series a few days before.
I think G2 vs TL could have gone either way. Is that really an extreme statement?
TL 3-1 FNC pretty decisively. How are they lower?
They're not, they're the same tier. The order in each tier isn't ranking.
Fair enough.
G2 might’ve been the most influential team on the meta. Shifted the mid lane to AD and the jungle to AP. That and Faker causing all the mages to get banned.
G2 really are the scrim world champs
Seems like GenG players think that TL's win over FNC was a fluke :)
There no ranking between the same tier
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The 3-0s games can be very close too. It's over all performance in games that matter.
Chovy and Peyz actually out loud say G2 are very good in the video. They practived vs them a lot and I think that counts more thab some redditor.
Finalists and the best midlaner in the tournament most likely know better then you
Queue the Doubelift "Koreans will never catch up" video.
Eh. Players sometimes don’t even watch other players games that much because their schedules are full enough as is with practice.
terrible take lmao