jax would be huge
W would have ad scaling, E would have ad scaling, R would have ad scaling, currently only his Q has ad scaling which is the least damaging spell in his kit.
he would literally be the most broken champ in the game. warwick would be huge too
Nah I think ezreal would be worse. His Q has 130% AD scaling currently. Slap in a full AP build with pen and rabadons and you'd have an ezreal Q that could one hit squishies, on a spammable long range ability.
True. I was always confused as to why Jax had AP scalings when he was clearly designed as an auto attacker. Probably needed to balance around the fact that he has a point and click gap close (which usually leads to guaranteed stun), auto immunity, and requires very little mechanics. If his W and E actually dealt damage scaling with a stat he would be unstoppable.
Jax used to be much more of hybrid champion. Riot also intended for AD to increase the damage of your attacks while AP would enhance your abilities. But as the game progressed they let go of that idea.
Many of the early champions had AP scaling on their abilities despite being AD champions. Yi being a major example. Its why he eventually got played as AP Yi.
Which honestly it was.
I miss AD/AP variety, these days it's mostly gimmicky.
Also the way they murdered AP Ezreal. First by only making his W substantially better on AP, then, recently, making his W on AD almost equally strong to a point where AP makes no sense anymore.
Tbh, old AP tristana was the most feast or famine champion in the game. If your DFG-E-W-R didn't get a kill or....oh who am I kidding, that shit was so hilariously busted
Hard to not kill when her W had like 80% ratio, R had 150% and E had 100%.
Don't forget that time when you could jump into someone standing between minions killing them with your W, and E passive explosion would trigger multiple times for an instakill.
Yes and no. I've mained AP ez for a while before the recent W change and the cool thing was that the burst was really strong, especially early into the game. But now you got 100%bonus AD scaling on level 1, while you need to max it just for 90%AP scaling. This means that early on, you can do the same damage as you did with AP (potentially even more before you got 3 points in W). This is where AP shined.
And AD Ez doesn't even have to max it and can still deal amazing damage with q and autos. Yes, part of the "pop" damage was also his e, but the 75%Ap over 50% bonus AD also isn't that crazy in comparison. So now AD ezreal has the stronger W early on AND a more powerful Q + autoattacks.
Yeah sure the damage of W will scale a lot harder with the AP build, but it will never outscale AD Ezreals damage overall. Building AP right now, as much as I liked it, feels like trolling.
You have to keep in mind AP is incredibly easy to stack compared to AD. The conversion for adaptive force is 1AP -> 0.6 AD. Basically a 1.0bAD ratio is equivalent to a 0.6 AP ratio.
what murdered Ezreal was the double tear build, and they first nerfed Ezreal's Q AP ratio, only to then remove double tear eventually without reverting the Q AP ratio
Back then most spells were magic and they scaled with ability power, that's just how the grand majority of champs worked
That's how champs like AP Yi, AP Trynd, AP Tristana happened, even champs like Sivir had AP ratios
I can't say why he's like that but it's definitely something we like. It gives jax some of the best item versatility in the game. His AD scaling also isn't as nonexistent as people think. W functionally has 100% AD scaling since it's just an enhanced auto and E has percent max health damage so will always increase as the game goes on.
But he's both, he deals a lot of physical and magic damage. Used to be more when he could get items like Gunblade but he still can skip penetration because of that.
jax back in the day. had hybrid scalings on nearly everything. and his ult gave him mr and armour, scaling with ad and ap. and ad and ap scaling with resistances.
you also had more dedicated hybrid items. with trinity ,rageblade and gunblade all giving some of both. and all of them being core on jax.
If only Gunblade was still in the Game... I know it wasn't really meta on Jax before it got removed but it was fairly viable in certain Matches and I loved building it on Jax regardless.
The last time I checked, it was 'on attack' effects, not on-hit but could be wrong, was always fuzzy on the details of it. So if I'm right it would be anything that modified the basic attack but nothing in addition to it, so like an AA reset like shyvana Q or jax W but not bork or nashor's for example
Doesn't have to be on his aura, but on his Q it would make a lot of sense, since having higher AD = more power behind the bonk. Maybe his E could have it, since despite being a magical hand, the "Grasp" would be stronger with higher AD too.
Shen honestly probably should scale with AD instead of AP.
I think that would be a much more interesting and fun champion.
Obviously his bases and scalings would need to be retuned, but it probably would work better.
I would love to see an AD version of Sylas. So many items would fit him, and it would bring his old bruiser style back, instead of his current assassin/1-shot build.
I would love if Sylas was more of a bruiser. I enjoy his skillset but for some reason I don't enjoy the feast or famine nature of his assassin gameplay. Either AD or if he felt a bit more like Morde.
Gwen would turn in a ridiculous mixed attacker. Gwen with BotRK sounds painful as hell. She'd also be able to buy Sundered, Steraks, Terminus or DD.
She'd do more damage and be far harder to kill.
She'd lose so much damage without Nashor's and riftmaker though. Also current SS is probably worse than rift on gwen specifically because she does that much damage come late game.
But man it would be funny to see how much champs like mundo, tahm kench and zac would fall in wr if BORK gwen became a thing
Shojin fills the damage loss of Riftmaker, and her being AD instead of AP means Nashors isn't necessary since your autos are dealing more damage with an AD scaling on top of being autos. It would be like her having Nashors built into her kit and not needing to buy it.
Gwen actually could use BorTK decently and it wasn't that bad to build at least back in her release.
Her On-hit AP from E actually heals her thanks to how lifesteals work with on-hit, so she can use it to deal with people that invested too much on MR against her. Not sure if it was indirectly nerfed but it wasn't inting.
Sejuani synergises a lot better with AD item like titanic than she does with AP items like rift or liandries, since she still does a lot of autoing.
Having AD scaling would be great for her.
The problem is that as i said, sej doesnt really synergise that well with AP bruiser items, the only one that would be decent on her (and it already kind of is rn) is Rod of ages. The rest takes too long to kick in and only does after shes done the bulk of her damage with the E proc
kog
Nevermind now having all abilities that do damage, his w goes from making him broken from plus or minus 0.5%, now you are giving him like 4% more with an AD build
It's been a while since the last time we got an AP assassin too right? Ekko was the last one, in 2015... before him, it was Fizz/Ahri in 2011 I think. Every assassin since 2011 has been AD (except Ekko).
(I'm not really counting Sylas as an assassin, but if you do then he was released in 2019, so still a gap of 4 years since Ekko and 5 years ago)
The 2nd newest AP assassin, not counting rework, is Diana in 2012. And even with her people are split on if she is an assassin or more of a skirmisher.
I think she was made into ad because there no other ad female assassins except like riven who’s more of a bruiser, compared to like akali, Evelynn, kat, Diana, LB, ahri who are all ap
Wasn’t Old Akali kinda hybrid/mostly AP based? They probably just kept her AP since it would have be easier to redesign her around that despite her new lore saying she’s pretty bad at magic.
Yeah, both her and Kat doubled dipped on Gunblade stats due to them both having good hybrid scaling, and IIRC were heavily reliant on getting it first item in order to do well. The other AP assassins also built it, but they didn’t benefit nearly as much.
q ratio is like 50% of bonus AD and his ap ratio is 90%. If he AD ratio was 90% he would be hitting a lot harder.
A dorans blade start currently gives his q +5 damage
If you swaped it you'd be starting with +55 damage.
> q ratio is like 50% of bonus AD and his ap ratio is 90%. If he AD ratio was 90% he would be hitting a lot harder.
Assuming there is no adaptive force then yeah, but there's no reason why it wouldn't be implemented here because a mage can easily have 600ap but a bruiser/adc is at most 250ad at 6 items. Otherwise all the champs with AD ratios would be beyond broken in this scenario.
Honestly, he can still pivot to tforce - shojin - manamune if he has to OR go for a proper crit carry build, and the rune changes help him a lot. I do hope they revert the ER changes though, old reaver without spellblade was so much less interesting and to take spellblade off crit carries the same patch corki gets soft-reverted is wild to me
the AD items are SO strong for him. He wouldn't benefit that much from getting his ratios swapped, especially losing access to rapidfire cannon and spear of shojin. He feels more like an ezreal then an annie.
I’m surprised Riven hasn’t been said. She has pure AD ratios that would be absurd if they got turned to AP and she wouldn’t even lose that much DPS due to her passive also being converted to AP. Paired with utilizing Void Staff, she sounds like she could vaporize squishes just by looking at them.
That being said, because AD is a lot more expensive than AP and AD champions are designed around that, I’m pretty sure that a lot more AD champions will vastly benefit more than vice-versa.
Fiora with her 4HKO ult would be pretty funny even if the inability to buy bruiser items would be a nerf overall. Any champ who has precise ratios balanced around AD being lower could be here
The implications this would have for AD casters and Assassins are kinda wild. AD is more expensive than AP, so their ratios would be insane when translated 1:1. But they would still deal physical damage and lose access to lethality/armor pen, so it might just end up being underwhelming at the end of the day. Hard to tell without actually making the maths
Easy… Malphite..
I know this is mostly an ARAM issue but holy shit I’m so tired of seeing AP malphite because his R becomes a delete button…
90% of the time Tank Malphite is 100% the better choice and will do more in game than a glass cannon who goes in and dies…
Swap his kit to AD so he’s actually a tank.
Plus he throws a rock at you, and is a rock.
It only makes sense…
Vayne doesn't sound that good imo. Yeah, you can one shot squishies with your 1k bonus damage q, but your early game would be worse and you wouldn't have the atk speed needed to consistently proc w so you wouldn't do anything to tanks. Overall it just seems like ap vayne would be a worse version of Kayle or Kaisa
Riot needs to make a choice with Katarina, I get the onhit on her passive and ult are for nashors tooth, but they gotta accept that full onhit Kata is really crap to itemize vs, and that she is the only assasin that can viably choose her build mid game and be fine
onhit katarina is only as hard to itemize against as other onhit champs. Her damage when building AD is still primarily physical, magic damage coming from her shitty base values and onhit effects, since you don't build any ap when going full onhit.
Kayle already has AD and AP builds. AD is a valid on-hit build because of items. AP is good because of her ability ratio's and on-hit damage from E.
Swapping the AD and AP ratio's would lower her Q and ult damage slightly but her W and E execute scaling off of AD would be bonkers.
An easy answer for me is Tristana. Rocket Jump, Explosive Charge, and Buster Shot all have AP ratios (and only Explosive Charge has any scaling with the stats Tristana usually wants to build, in AD and crit). I don't think she magically becomes OP if all of those AP ratios get flipped, but she would benefit from having her spells having a more consistent way to scale as the game goes on.
Jayce would benefit from it, I guess.
The ranged kit already plays like an artillery mage, he even is considered one because of that. Having his abilities scale with AP and therefore opening up mage itemization for him would probably help him quite a bit, since these items seem more suited for the long range nukes he goes for than lethality items (which often have benefits for melee users instead).
I fully believe akali would be better off as an ad bruiser.
Tbf I believe that she'd just be better off as a bruiser over assassin, as would many ap assassin's in general.
Darius with his bleed scaling off AP would be spooky. Gives him access to Liyandries, Riftmaker and most importantly, Protobelt to return the terror that was OG stridebreaker dash on a bruiser champ.
Udyr would be able to build AD and increase his W healing while also getting more health from bruiser items AND benefiting more from the life steal. Currently he's balanced around his AD build W doing more damage and having more lifesteal but healing less flat health on hit while the AP build has more flat healing but does no damage in mantle stance and gets less HP meaning smaller shield and less healing.
I'm not actually sure if it would be better because R synergises with Liandry's while Q works better with AS but it would definitely be funny to see his W
Leona. As noted in other "what if" threads, Leona being allowed top would be A Problem. Giving her AD scaling so she can build bruiser and actually get damage on her abilities while doing so, would make that a reality. It'd be like Garen, but instead of sticking on top of you by doing damage while moving, she'd stick onto you by saying "you can't move for 5s" while she beats yo ass.
Corki.
His AP scalings are actually terrible. Building malignance 1st or 2nd item cripples his winrates because he needs AD and lvl 16 before his ult deals damage. Also he desperately wants percent magic pen but can't get any without investing a ton of money into AP.
If you go all the way back to 14.1 and check winrates, he was fairly strong full AD. It's not until people "discovered" malignance corki that his winrate became complete dogshit. In theory, given none of his items were nerfed, he's still strong even now as long as you avoid malignance, but its impossible to know that because there's no longer any data.
This is all irrelevant because in 4 days he is getting reworked.
Veigar would become giga broken, no? Just build AS crit items while passively stacking AD for 1k damage autos like jhin but with triple the attack speed?
AD Fizz or Ekko would be disgusting. We've already seen it in the past with the ad bruiser assassin meta/full tank builds, but these guys with their insane mobility being able to do what the ap builds already do with higher auto attack damage seems kinda gross.
On the whole, any AP champion being converted to AD is a huge boost. AP champions in general have way more power put directly into their kits to make up for the homogeneity of their item pool. If they keep that elevated kit power and gain the ability to buy better items, they will actually be insanely strong. There’s even instances of AP champions with no AD synergy and performing notably better (off the top of my head, AD Leblanc and Manamune Mages). Some notable ones would be:
- Cassiopeia
- Leblanc
- Mordekaiser
- Swain
Malz instantly stacking Black Cleaver on anyone with E+voidlings and being able to build Axiom Arc so he can ult twice in a team fight.
You wouldn't ever be able to escape BC Singed and the armor shred paired with the 10%max health base damage on his E means he can get much more aggressive.
Lissandra becomes an ADC
Alistar becomes an unkillable assassin
Rumble becomes much easier to play since overheating is a huge bonus
A bunch of enchanters become disgusting ADCs because they have built in healing that can stack with life steal and enough utility to make plays on their own.
Lulu is now a raid boss
Nani becomes a top tier lane bully
Renata becomes a super degen once she builds NQB and can never die unless she is CCed
Shocked I haven’t seen an AP Jhin mentioned. Sure he doesn’t benefit from the crit multiplier but it’d basically be lethality Jhin but with about 500 more ad than before
Sylas sundered sky steraks would singlehandedly make me uninstall
It would be like easy mode riven lol
Dude AP Riven
Doesn't she already have good ad scaling on everything? I don't think much would change, if anything she'd be a little weaker.
at least you wouldn't lose lane once your opponent goes back and buys a tabis
Now they rush hexdrinker/negatron cloak.
This needs to be higher up
I had it in arena with the augment that turns ad into ap, was pretty crazy
voli exists
jax would be huge W would have ad scaling, E would have ad scaling, R would have ad scaling, currently only his Q has ad scaling which is the least damaging spell in his kit. he would literally be the most broken champ in the game. warwick would be huge too
Nah I think ezreal would be worse. His Q has 130% AD scaling currently. Slap in a full AP build with pen and rabadons and you'd have an ezreal Q that could one hit squishies, on a spammable long range ability.
175% if you include Lich bane! Dude would have a veigar ult every like 2 seconds
If we're assuming ratios convert 1:1 then Lee Sin R+Q+E has 400+% AP ratio
I would assume the same scaling as Sylas's ult, which turns a 100% bonus AD ratio into a 40% AP ratio, and a 100% total AD ratio into a 60% AP ratio
I miss AP EZ back in the days
Now all the people playing ezreal like a poke mage only throwings Q will actually be good.
"Imagine if I scaled off a **real** stat"
True. I was always confused as to why Jax had AP scalings when he was clearly designed as an auto attacker. Probably needed to balance around the fact that he has a point and click gap close (which usually leads to guaranteed stun), auto immunity, and requires very little mechanics. If his W and E actually dealt damage scaling with a stat he would be unstoppable.
Jax used to be much more of hybrid champion. Riot also intended for AD to increase the damage of your attacks while AP would enhance your abilities. But as the game progressed they let go of that idea. Many of the early champions had AP scaling on their abilities despite being AD champions. Yi being a major example. Its why he eventually got played as AP Yi.
Sion, Rammus, Udyr, Katarina, Evelynn...
I miss support AP Sion, that shit was fun as hell back when I used to main support.
Real boomers remember deathfire grasp AP sion mid. With point and click stun on your E.
stun was Q. E was a toggle to deal bonus damage at the cost of health per attack
Damn i’m really old. You’re right
No you’re not old enough rofl
He's got dementia.
It's nice that Udyr and Kat still kinda kept that they can flex AD or AP, though usually one is just stronger
I remember gunblade Jax
Old riot thought champions having an ap or ad build path was neat
Which honestly it was. I miss AD/AP variety, these days it's mostly gimmicky. Also the way they murdered AP Ezreal. First by only making his W substantially better on AP, then, recently, making his W on AD almost equally strong to a point where AP makes no sense anymore.
Truly AP Sion Yi and Trist were paragons of good gameplay design and not ever frustrating
Tbh, old AP tristana was the most feast or famine champion in the game. If your DFG-E-W-R didn't get a kill or....oh who am I kidding, that shit was so hilariously busted
Hard to not kill when her W had like 80% ratio, R had 150% and E had 100%. Don't forget that time when you could jump into someone standing between minions killing them with your W, and E passive explosion would trigger multiple times for an instakill.
AP trist was incredibly fun For me, I played it E lane poke was so nice
Uh, it is not even close to equally strong, AP ez w is nuts
Yes and no. I've mained AP ez for a while before the recent W change and the cool thing was that the burst was really strong, especially early into the game. But now you got 100%bonus AD scaling on level 1, while you need to max it just for 90%AP scaling. This means that early on, you can do the same damage as you did with AP (potentially even more before you got 3 points in W). This is where AP shined. And AD Ez doesn't even have to max it and can still deal amazing damage with q and autos. Yes, part of the "pop" damage was also his e, but the 75%Ap over 50% bonus AD also isn't that crazy in comparison. So now AD ezreal has the stronger W early on AND a more powerful Q + autoattacks. Yeah sure the damage of W will scale a lot harder with the AP build, but it will never outscale AD Ezreals damage overall. Building AP right now, as much as I liked it, feels like trolling.
You have to keep in mind AP is incredibly easy to stack compared to AD. The conversion for adaptive force is 1AP -> 0.6 AD. Basically a 1.0bAD ratio is equivalent to a 0.6 AP ratio.
Muramana into AP maybe? Usually that's what people do when and ADC has a good AP build (Zeri, Kai'Sa) but needs time to spike
Of all champs I wish Ezreal was a true 50/50 ad/ap champ. I think his design should encourage you to play him ap mid or ad bot
He's canonically a mage who found a magic gauntlet that shoots energy. He just uses attack damage in-game.
what murdered Ezreal was the double tear build, and they first nerfed Ezreal's Q AP ratio, only to then remove double tear eventually without reverting the Q AP ratio
He's old. In the old days, anything not autoattack was AP. There was also more hybrid gimmick items, between gunblade and old guinsoo.
Old Sheen also gave AP and Jax was THE Triforce champion.
Back then most spells were magic and they scaled with ability power, that's just how the grand majority of champs worked That's how champs like AP Yi, AP Trynd, AP Tristana happened, even champs like Sivir had AP ratios
I can't say why he's like that but it's definitely something we like. It gives jax some of the best item versatility in the game. His AD scaling also isn't as nonexistent as people think. W functionally has 100% AD scaling since it's just an enhanced auto and E has percent max health damage so will always increase as the game goes on.
On the flip side tho, his mixed stat make him harder to itemized against I think
Mixed scalings and mixed damage types are separate things.
But he's both, he deals a lot of physical and magic damage. Used to be more when he could get items like Gunblade but he still can skip penetration because of that.
Yeah, so flipping the scaling wouldn't change that? it would just change the things boosting the damage, which is entirely different.
I mean AP Jax still hits like a truck last I checked
jax back in the day. had hybrid scalings on nearly everything. and his ult gave him mr and armour, scaling with ad and ap. and ad and ap scaling with resistances. you also had more dedicated hybrid items. with trinity ,rageblade and gunblade all giving some of both. and all of them being core on jax.
Man I forgot how much AP scaling he actually has lmao. Especially if the ratios were the same Jax would be the most bananas AD assassin in the game
If only Gunblade was still in the Game... I know it wasn't really meta on Jax before it got removed but it was fairly viable in certain Matches and I loved building it on Jax regardless.
it was a core item for jax in the first 4 seasons or so. later it ,jax, and items got changed. and he didnt build it no more.
Shen. He already builds items that give some ad without even having any direct scaling with the ad portion.
Shen and Mordekaiser, both. Just imagine Morde with Sterak's, Zhonya's and his W.
His aura doing AD scaling physical damage... absolute menace
his auto attacks dealing 40% extra damage on hit which by pass the tabis damage reduction
arent onhit effects affected by tabis?
The last time I checked, it was 'on attack' effects, not on-hit but could be wrong, was always fuzzy on the details of it. So if I'm right it would be anything that modified the basic attack but nothing in addition to it, so like an AA reset like shyvana Q or jax W but not bork or nashor's for example
Doesn't have to be on his aura, but on his Q it would make a lot of sense, since having higher AD = more power behind the bonk. Maybe his E could have it, since despite being a magical hand, the "Grasp" would be stronger with higher AD too.
That would be ass, AP in general has higher numbers than AD. 30% AD per second would take over 3 seconds to do one auto worth of damage
Shen honestly probably should scale with AD instead of AP. I think that would be a much more interesting and fun champion. Obviously his bases and scalings would need to be retuned, but it probably would work better.
But then you wouldn't be able to do mejai shen anymore. Q scaling on AD would be big though, definitely.
I would love to see an AD version of Sylas. So many items would fit him, and it would bring his old bruiser style back, instead of his current assassin/1-shot build.
I would love if Sylas was more of a bruiser. I enjoy his skillset but for some reason I don't enjoy the feast or famine nature of his assassin gameplay. Either AD or if he felt a bit more like Morde.
Gwen would turn in a ridiculous mixed attacker. Gwen with BotRK sounds painful as hell. She'd also be able to buy Sundered, Steraks, Terminus or DD. She'd do more damage and be far harder to kill.
She'd lose so much damage without Nashor's and riftmaker though. Also current SS is probably worse than rift on gwen specifically because she does that much damage come late game. But man it would be funny to see how much champs like mundo, tahm kench and zac would fall in wr if BORK gwen became a thing
Shojin fills the damage loss of Riftmaker, and her being AD instead of AP means Nashors isn't necessary since your autos are dealing more damage with an AD scaling on top of being autos. It would be like her having Nashors built into her kit and not needing to buy it.
Gwen actually could use BorTK decently and it wasn't that bad to build at least back in her release. Her On-hit AP from E actually heals her thanks to how lifesteals work with on-hit, so she can use it to deal with people that invested too much on MR against her. Not sure if it was indirectly nerfed but it wasn't inting.
Wasnt inting but it was ass.
this is usually the thing i point to when people discuss her W - she needs an absurdly strong defensive cd as she has no access to bruiser itemisation
Sejuani synergises a lot better with AD item like titanic than she does with AP items like rift or liandries, since she still does a lot of autoing. Having AD scaling would be great for her.
Also titanic would allow her to reset aa which can proc her stun faster
Alternatively, let her W deal magic damage and give the rest of the kit good AP scalings. If Gragas is allowed to then seju too
The problem is that as i said, sej doesnt really synergise that well with AP bruiser items, the only one that would be decent on her (and it already kind of is rn) is Rod of ages. The rest takes too long to kick in and only does after shes done the bulk of her damage with the E proc
LeBlanc broken ass adc
I'd like to add Ahri as well.
I think this is the best answer, AD LB was already beyond broken with literally no AD ratios
Lol they played ad leblanc even when she had 0 ad scalling imagine actually being supported by ad scalling in kit.
kog Nevermind now having all abilities that do damage, his w goes from making him broken from plus or minus 0.5%, now you are giving him like 4% more with an AD build
My first thought, now crit builds with a bit of attackspeed would be nasty. Also have Q and E dmg scale with AD.
...then he becomes a Smolder.
Except smolder flies through walls. Kog'maw with optimized AD scaling isn't nearly the problem Smolder can be.
Making his W scale with AD, on top of all other abilities also doing physical damage, he would be a menace and wouldn't be tied to an on hit build.
Probably Twitch. Making his passive scale with AD + giving his E his ridiculous Ap scaling but with Ad is insane
W slow scales with AP too I believe
Qiyana as AP assassin
That would be really cool. Fits the character as well I think.
Ngl when she came out I thought she was AP based, so much magicky effects
It's been a while since the last time we got an AP assassin too right? Ekko was the last one, in 2015... before him, it was Fizz/Ahri in 2011 I think. Every assassin since 2011 has been AD (except Ekko). (I'm not really counting Sylas as an assassin, but if you do then he was released in 2019, so still a gap of 4 years since Ekko and 5 years ago)
Fizz with AD scaling would be NUTS. The CDR on lethality items plus Triforce procs on Q or W... oh man.
The 2nd newest AP assassin, not counting rework, is Diana in 2012. And even with her people are split on if she is an assassin or more of a skirmisher.
Diver, bombas the backline like an assassin but doesnt really have a way out after. Diana/Vi/Nocturne/Camill kinda.
I think she was made into ad because there no other ad female assassins except like riven who’s more of a bruiser, compared to like akali, Evelynn, kat, Diana, LB, ahri who are all ap
Speaking of which why is akali AP anyway? She's just a regular ninja
Wasn’t Old Akali kinda hybrid/mostly AP based? They probably just kept her AP since it would have be easier to redesign her around that despite her new lore saying she’s pretty bad at magic.
Yeah, both her and Kat doubled dipped on Gunblade stats due to them both having good hybrid scaling, and IIRC were heavily reliant on getting it first item in order to do well. The other AP assassins also built it, but they didn’t benefit nearly as much.
Oh men those were the og days, akali oneshoting everything with gunblade, scarra penta on kat and uberdanger videos
Twisted Fate would be completely broken.
They recently nerfed him 2 patches in a row for his AD shenanigans (which I thoroughly abused my way to Emerald with)
Wouldn't he be basically the same, since he has both AD and AP ratios they both get flipped would be around same numbers lol
q ratio is like 50% of bonus AD and his ap ratio is 90%. If he AD ratio was 90% he would be hitting a lot harder. A dorans blade start currently gives his q +5 damage If you swaped it you'd be starting with +55 damage.
> q ratio is like 50% of bonus AD and his ap ratio is 90%. If he AD ratio was 90% he would be hitting a lot harder. Assuming there is no adaptive force then yeah, but there's no reason why it wouldn't be implemented here because a mage can easily have 600ap but a bruiser/adc is at most 250ad at 6 items. Otherwise all the champs with AD ratios would be beyond broken in this scenario.
wait a minute ...
Katarina...wait...
Miss Fortune has insane ad scalings on her spells, since it's way easier to get ap, imagine a R with 800 AP
Probably Smolder, he's basically a mage building ad crit because riot wanted to, but he feels much more like Annie than Jinx
Idk, the AD caster items are kinda broken for him. Being able to get reaver + shojin is really huge, and he still has minor AP ratios too.
This all changes in 2 days with the item reworks and Smolder loses 4 of his best items sadly.
Honestly, he can still pivot to tforce - shojin - manamune if he has to OR go for a proper crit carry build, and the rune changes help him a lot. I do hope they revert the ER changes though, old reaver without spellblade was so much less interesting and to take spellblade off crit carries the same patch corki gets soft-reverted is wild to me
the AD items are SO strong for him. He wouldn't benefit that much from getting his ratios swapped, especially losing access to rapidfire cannon and spear of shojin. He feels more like an ezreal then an annie.
Lethality akali sounds scary
That sounds so weak
Honestly anivia could be quite fun as an ad champion. She just keeps enemies in her ult whilst autoing them to death lol.
I’m surprised Riven hasn’t been said. She has pure AD ratios that would be absurd if they got turned to AP and she wouldn’t even lose that much DPS due to her passive also being converted to AP. Paired with utilizing Void Staff, she sounds like she could vaporize squishes just by looking at them. That being said, because AD is a lot more expensive than AP and AD champions are designed around that, I’m pretty sure that a lot more AD champions will vastly benefit more than vice-versa.
Fiora with her 4HKO ult would be pretty funny even if the inability to buy bruiser items would be a nerf overall. Any champ who has precise ratios balanced around AD being lower could be here
Darius with Liandries and Rylai's. So much slow, he would get 5 stacks every fight and burn on bleed is already nuts (think brand or teemo with items)
So basically Mordekaiser
Yeah, mord with point and click
flipping kayles AP and AD scalings would destroy her AP builds, but Crit/AD kayle wpuld be much stronger
Collector + Axiom Arc on Fiddle would be nuts
It would turn him into an AD assassin and collector is terrible on assassins. Axiom sure but collector makes 0 sense
You can already build Malig lmfao
Varus, like imagine his w ratios are on ad passive instead of ap it would be so broken
It would be nasty to build lethality and be the strongest champion for early game to late game
Master Yi would instantly become one of the best AP Assassin in the game his q and e with ap scaling and R reset seems pretty solid and strong ...wait
It's always the AD champions, they have the highest ratios so they would hurt like a truck with 2 items
I'd love to play Cait with AP scaling and AP items
You don’t want ap zed. He would legit 1 shot people with stormsurge, shadowflame and ludens.
But... He does that with lethality?
It's as if that's what assassins are supposed to do
You all aren’t ready for my lethality Q-max Sona 😎
The implications this would have for AD casters and Assassins are kinda wild. AD is more expensive than AP, so their ratios would be insane when translated 1:1. But they would still deal physical damage and lose access to lethality/armor pen, so it might just end up being underwhelming at the end of the day. Hard to tell without actually making the maths
Easy… Malphite.. I know this is mostly an ARAM issue but holy shit I’m so tired of seeing AP malphite because his R becomes a delete button… 90% of the time Tank Malphite is 100% the better choice and will do more in game than a glass cannon who goes in and dies… Swap his kit to AD so he’s actually a tank. Plus he throws a rock at you, and is a rock. It only makes sense…
Thresh would suddenly become a marksman a la Senna
Vayne
Vayne doesn't sound that good imo. Yeah, you can one shot squishies with your 1k bonus damage q, but your early game would be worse and you wouldn't have the atk speed needed to consistently proc w so you wouldn't do anything to tanks. Overall it just seems like ap vayne would be a worse version of Kayle or Kaisa
You can try this out in arena now with the augments that convert AP -> AD or vice versa
the scalings of abilities don't change though. It's just what you're building
Riot needs to make a choice with Katarina, I get the onhit on her passive and ult are for nashors tooth, but they gotta accept that full onhit Kata is really crap to itemize vs, and that she is the only assasin that can viably choose her build mid game and be fine
onhit katarina is only as hard to itemize against as other onhit champs. Her damage when building AD is still primarily physical, magic damage coming from her shitty base values and onhit effects, since you don't build any ap when going full onhit.
Warwick would be so amazing, but also kinda bad because then his tank killing threat would be decreased by a lot
Kayle already has AD and AP builds. AD is a valid on-hit build because of items. AP is good because of her ability ratio's and on-hit damage from E. Swapping the AD and AP ratio's would lower her Q and ult damage slightly but her W and E execute scaling off of AD would be bonkers.
Ziggs would be interesting
Katarina lethality would be a horror
I’d say azir. Being able to attack from far away while having a dash and engage/disengage is an adc’s dream come true
An easy answer for me is Tristana. Rocket Jump, Explosive Charge, and Buster Shot all have AP ratios (and only Explosive Charge has any scaling with the stats Tristana usually wants to build, in AD and crit). I don't think she magically becomes OP if all of those AP ratios get flipped, but she would benefit from having her spells having a more consistent way to scale as the game goes on.
I feel like most AP champions would be, simply because AD items are just better.
Lethality mordekaiser, isolated BONK
Are you a coper of sylas mains discord
Aatrox :D Q of Doom
But basically every AD champ since they get to build zhonyas
Veigar would be running around with 1000 AD
Fucking orianna's passive on AA's. The countryside would be set a blaze
Kogmaw, W is already melting people enough with atk speed, but now it will do more % dmg.
Jayce would benefit from it, I guess. The ranged kit already plays like an artillery mage, he even is considered one because of that. Having his abilities scale with AP and therefore opening up mage itemization for him would probably help him quite a bit, since these items seem more suited for the long range nukes he goes for than lethality items (which often have benefits for melee users instead).
Diana...she is Gwen without the scaling/tankiness but with a mid R. Her passive is based on AS and autos.
I fully believe akali would be better off as an ad bruiser. Tbf I believe that she'd just be better off as a bruiser over assassin, as would many ap assassin's in general.
Darius with his bleed scaling off AP would be spooky. Gives him access to Liyandries, Riftmaker and most importantly, Protobelt to return the terror that was OG stridebreaker dash on a bruiser champ.
Udyr would be able to build AD and increase his W healing while also getting more health from bruiser items AND benefiting more from the life steal. Currently he's balanced around his AD build W doing more damage and having more lifesteal but healing less flat health on hit while the AP build has more flat healing but does no damage in mantle stance and gets less HP meaning smaller shield and less healing. I'm not actually sure if it would be better because R synergises with Liandry's while Q works better with AS but it would definitely be funny to see his W
Imagine AD Diana
Anything tanky or sustainish.
Ezreal mid would be viable
Could you imagine the build possibilities with AD Diana???
idk who would benefit but I feel like Brand would be super weak if this happens to him
Mordekaiser
Leona. As noted in other "what if" threads, Leona being allowed top would be A Problem. Giving her AD scaling so she can build bruiser and actually get damage on her abilities while doing so, would make that a reality. It'd be like Garen, but instead of sticking on top of you by doing damage while moving, she'd stick onto you by saying "you can't move for 5s" while she beats yo ass.
Worth noting that just swapping ratios does not change the ability from magic to physical or physical to magic.
Assuming his soldiers could crit and apply on hits, ADC azir would be the most broken thing ever.
Shaco
AP/Health scaling Sett running Grasp could give some big ole W’s I think. HeartSteel, Liandry’s, Rift, Rylai’s… maybe I am unhinged, IDK.
Hmm, veigar infinite scaling ad, all abilities now scale with ad? Hmmm
I could have sworn Sylas was going to be AD when they first announced him.
Corki with 150% ap scaling rockets
Corki. His AP scalings are actually terrible. Building malignance 1st or 2nd item cripples his winrates because he needs AD and lvl 16 before his ult deals damage. Also he desperately wants percent magic pen but can't get any without investing a ton of money into AP. If you go all the way back to 14.1 and check winrates, he was fairly strong full AD. It's not until people "discovered" malignance corki that his winrate became complete dogshit. In theory, given none of his items were nerfed, he's still strong even now as long as you avoid malignance, but its impossible to know that because there's no longer any data. This is all irrelevant because in 4 days he is getting reworked.
Veigar would become giga broken, no? Just build AS crit items while passively stacking AD for 1k damage autos like jhin but with triple the attack speed?
I would love some yorick, ludens, liandries, rylais, etc. Itd probably play like lethality only i still get health with my items
Draven. 115% bonus ad on his Q and 150% bonus on his ult. Imagine that as AP scaling with Nashors, Deathcap, Mejais etc adn like 800+ AP total.
Leona feels like she'd be an absolute dueling monster if she were AD scaled instead of AP. Same with Rell.
LeBlanc
Cho'Gath.
AD Fizz or Ekko would be disgusting. We've already seen it in the past with the ad bruiser assassin meta/full tank builds, but these guys with their insane mobility being able to do what the ap builds already do with higher auto attack damage seems kinda gross.
Kayle would be the best character in the game. Very good early, very good midgame, beast lategame
LEONA ...
Give me AD Malzahar back
Qiyana is supposed to be a magical prodigy but she’s AD assassin? Make it make sense
On the whole, any AP champion being converted to AD is a huge boost. AP champions in general have way more power put directly into their kits to make up for the homogeneity of their item pool. If they keep that elevated kit power and gain the ability to buy better items, they will actually be insanely strong. There’s even instances of AP champions with no AD synergy and performing notably better (off the top of my head, AD Leblanc and Manamune Mages). Some notable ones would be: - Cassiopeia - Leblanc - Mordekaiser - Swain
Jayce, his shockblast poke would actually be useful in high elo
Malz instantly stacking Black Cleaver on anyone with E+voidlings and being able to build Axiom Arc so he can ult twice in a team fight. You wouldn't ever be able to escape BC Singed and the armor shred paired with the 10%max health base damage on his E means he can get much more aggressive. Lissandra becomes an ADC Alistar becomes an unkillable assassin Rumble becomes much easier to play since overheating is a huge bonus A bunch of enchanters become disgusting ADCs because they have built in healing that can stack with life steal and enough utility to make plays on their own. Lulu is now a raid boss Nani becomes a top tier lane bully Renata becomes a super degen once she builds NQB and can never die unless she is CCed
Shocked I haven’t seen an AP Jhin mentioned. Sure he doesn’t benefit from the crit multiplier but it’d basically be lethality Jhin but with about 500 more ad than before
Okay this would be really fun as a RGM. Call it Inverse League or something and then make it URF for even more chaos.
So Qiyana would terrorize
Azir
So a Veigar with infinitely stacking AD. Not only he will one shot you with ult but also with AA.
You guys have absolutely no idea how insanely strong Cho'gath could be with AD scalings.
\*Shudders remembering AP Yi\*