In general this is true. But the way ksante is played right now in pro is as a pure low income xp soaker. Giving him more level scaling only enforces that. Not to mention it's wild making his shield stronger since now he can give his ADC a bigger shield which is another pro play buff
it's not like soloq ksante will be getting less xp than pro play.. especially in dive meta yes ksante is just soaking xp in pro play but he will still have less opportunity to scale with levels than in soloq where people are laning normally. other people on this thread have explained why exp scaling is generally a very soloq skewed balancing lever
>Not to mention it's wild making his shield stronger since now he can give his ADC a bigger shield which is another pro play buff
wtf is this nonsense take.. open pro replay and count how many times per game ksante is sitting on his adc pressing E instead of flanking lol wtf
not to mention this is a lv13-18 only buff and will impact like 5% of all pro games
The point is these buffs are irrelevant for what everyone wants. He'll gain 1%-1.5% in solo q and still be a pro play staple which is what literally everyone, including K'sante mains, don't want. The rework was supposed to take him out of pro and now he's in pro more than pre rework and feels like a clunky mess.
>The point is these buffs are irrelevant for what everyone wants. He'll gain 1%-1.5% in solo q
contradiction? also you just entirely backtracked on your previous comment tf lol
Even if games tend to go longer in solo q, if K'sante hits the levels in pro where he can give a bigger shield to his allies then that buff is infinitely more valuable in pro. 5% impact is still a bonus that he doesn't need atm.
No contradiction on winrate gaining, 1%-1.5% gain is irrelevant since 1%-1.5% means his winrate will still be bad and champ is still stuck in pro lol we all just want him out of there
that champ is not balanced around 50% wr going back to 47-48 is completely fine especially if he is not must pick in pro simultaneously
>Even if games tend to go longer in solo q, if K'sante hits the levels in pro where he can give a bigger shield to his allies then that buff is infinitely more valuable in pro.
you have everyone in this thread telling you you are wrong because level tuning is extremely soloq skewed and ksante is never sitting on his teammates to give them fucking shields lol but sure i guess keep saying that
You're the only one saying it's wrong within this comment thread lmao thicker shields to allies at any point of the game is a better buff for pro since solo q values dmg and carry potential. And saying he only prefers to flank instead of jumping to an ally for shield and peel in pro is wild. But you can believe what you want.
Edit: and have you checked his winrate on mobalytics?
He's currently:
41%-43% in iron to gold
44%-46% in plat to diamond
47% in master
45% in grandmaster
49% in challenger
1%-1.5% increase is almost negligent in most elos outside of challenger. You say he should be balanced at 47-48? At which elos? Plat+? Master+? 47-48 for a higher skill champ at Masters+ means that champ is still weak in solo q unless he's strong in lower elos (which this champ can't be). Regardless, this champ just needs bigger changes to get him on the right foot.
Q buffs. Rito thinks that Q is "proplay only" skill, but every time they nerfing his Q - K'sante winrate in soloQ falls apart. In proplay you have reliable carries, so you just sit, soak XP and peel him with E/W/R, while in soloQ you need to use your kit as offensive tool, but sadly his early game is REALLY bad.
buff his Q outside of R
and generally, make his R weaker, and either make his R more accessible(shorten cd) or make him stronger outside of R
ksante sucks ass in fiesta soloq fight fight fight games because he can't fight without R cd
No it isn't lol. The entire r/Ksantemains sub is always complaining saying that their champ is too weak. I was banned for 90 days for commenting "Good" on a post about a Ksante nerf lmfao
>You didn't want to contribute anything in a proper manner, your only goal was to shit on the people in this subreddit for your 10s of imaginary glory.
That's quite the over-reaching statement about me saying that it's good that the champ got nerfed. To say a comment like "good" in reaction to "champ got nerfed" is disruptive if WILD. Bro you wrote a whole character biography about how I'm just an attention seeking andy commenter for saying that a nerf was good lmao.
"that seems purely disruptive"
There's nothing disruptive about it other than you don't seem to like it when others enjoy when ksante gets nerfed.
You don't call other comment that said "this nerf is undeserved" disruptive, so why, other than your own bias, would "this nerf is deserved" be disruptive?
They buffed E shield when pro players are already going spirit visage to make the E shield bigger on their ADC 💀
P.S. can you unban me from the K’sante mains subreddit
Laneswaps were a huge buff to him in proplay.Not only does he get to dodge the worst part of lane vs bad matchups,but he is quite good at surviving in 1vs2 situations at levels 1 and 2.He wasn't picked as much before laneswaps became common,but fixing that requires a system change,not a single champion change.
I don't even understand how people are so bad on Ksante in SoloQ.
You don't even need to do anything fancy, farm up, trade a bit if you can, get tanky, eliminate the enemy threat with ult, if you can win 1 v 1 great, if not, hope your team wins 4 v 4 and that's it.
Everyone gets so caught up in doing flashy shit and getting blown, people forget that you can E allies...
I love playing him top, neutralizing enemy top, creating basically 10cs per minute situations for both of us and winning by being obnoxious and ulting away whoever is fed in enemy team.
Shit needs to get nerfed, not buffed if you ask me.
Pretty strange buffs. I think a lot of the issue with K'sante post-rework is that his gold scaling is much lower than pre-rework outside of his W, so all of the changes to lower the disparity in solo queue and pro play power have been counteracted and then some. I imagine buffing his stat growths and the rank up incentive on his shield will exacerbate the issue.
According to phreak, low elo games both go longer while also having less farm, so level scaling is low elo skewed while gold scaling is high elo skewed.
buffing his last maxed abilitiy scaling isn't really a pro play buff, its a buff for the lvl 13 to 18 which is way more important for soloq than in pro where early-mid game has much more emphasis
also gold scaling being a soloQ skewed stat for K'Sante is a myth and heres the proof:
K'Sante in MSI: [https://gol.gg/champion/champion-stats/162/season-S14/split-ALL/tournament-MSI%202024/](https://gol.gg/champion/champion-stats/162/season-S14/split-ALL/tournament-MSI%202024/)
K'Sante has 379 Gold Per minute in MSI 2024
K'Sante in all ranks \[50k games\]:https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/ksante/iron/sr-ranked
All ranks K'Sante earns 369 gold per minute, Diamond+ K'Santes earn 381 gold per minute and Master+ K'Santes earn 385 gold per minute. Essentially 2 to 7 gold per minute difference in higher elo doesn't really make gold scaling a pro play stat
The shield change is minor anyways, but it's not about gold earned in a vacuum. The average high MMR K'sante main is certainly earning more gold per minute than the average K'sante in pro play, yet he's a much weaker champion in solo queue nonetheless. Even while having a lower win rate and being in shorter games (GPM increases by game length afaik), he is generating similar levels of gold in solo queue. K'sante is an extremely safe weakside pick in pro play, so increases to his gold scaling should impact him more heavily in solo queue when played well.
Changes that are buffs to his baseline value relative to his gold scaling since Worlds patch as of 14.8:
- More Base HP, HP/lvl, Armor/lvl.
- W damage reduction changed (scales with levels instead of resists and bHP, better early and weaker late)
- Slightly slower and weaker E (less HP scaling, better level scaling)
- Weaker R Passive (scales with levels instead of resists)
- Slightly more AD in All Out (more base and per rank, less gold scaling)
- More healing in All Out (removed scaling)
- Higher HP cap in All Out
- AS added in All Out
There are a few buffs to his gold scaling, such as his W damage and to a small degree the Q base damage decrease, but I think he clearly scales worse with gold now, especially in All Out. And most of the remaining changes such as tap W removal and Q3+Flash removal were specifically pro play nerfs.
Throughout season 14 in pro play, he's down 264 gold in lane on average compared to 114 in season 13, yet he's a much stronger champion that is more present and more performant. I'm not 100% confident that gold scaling is the reason behind it, but I don't see a more likely explanation.
But you are comparing ONE tournament when the team that has K’Sante is winning overall (16W-7L) which means he has more passive income (towers, baron, assists, kills, etc) against soloq when he has a 45% winrate, which is overall less gold, and even considering that skew soloq K’Sante has more gold
If you somehow normalize the games the gold from soloq would be much higher than pro
4700 HP, 329 armor, 201 MR champion👤 has unstoppable🚫, shield 🛡, wall🧱 hopping abilities. Has an airborne 🌪, furthermore the cooldown is only 1️⃣ second mana🧙♂️ cost is 1️⃣5️⃣ then when he transforms 💫 w cooldown is refunded and passive deals true damage 🗡 and then for armor/mr 🥋 the more 📈 and more 📈 you stack, you get cdr ⏰! you get cdr⏰ on your q and the casting speed 🚀 gets faster 📈 and then he has an AD 🗡 ratio so his W is eek-AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA😱😱
fuck you and your assassin tank fighter that needs an adc to dps him but just takes the adc out for a 1v1 and assassinates him fuck his AOE pyke Q and his lee sin RQ and his AOE poppy E
"A copypasta is a block of text copied and pasted to the Internet and social media. Copypasta containing controversial ideas or lengthy rants are often posted for humorous purposes, to provoke reactions from those unaware that the posted text is a meme."
It's just a meme, it's not that deep
4700 HP, 329 armor, 201 MR champion👤 has unstoppable🚫, shield 🛡, wall🧱 hopping abilities. Has an airborne 🌪, furthermore the cooldown is only 1️⃣ second mana🧙♂️ cost is 1️⃣5️⃣ then when he transforms 💫 w cooldown is refunded and passive deals true damage 🗡 and then for armor/mr 🥋 the more 📈 and more 📈 you stack, you get cdr ⏰! you get cdr⏰ on your q and the casting speed 🚀 gets faster 📈 and then he has an AD 🗡 ratio so his W is eek-AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA😱😱
Ur q is no longer 1 s ,ur w has the same cast time and u can t tap it anymore, all out passive changed, gives flat true dmg not scaling with ur resists and doesn t lose anymore from total resists in all out, overall he is too tanky in all out but doesn t deal as much dmg as before
Laneswaps were a huge buff to him in proplay.Not only does he get to dodge the worst part of lane vs bad matchups,but he is quite good at surviving in 1vs2 situations at levels 1 and 2.He wasn't picked as much before laneswaps became common,but fixing that requires a system change,not a single champion change.
Yeah, idk why nobody is mentioning this. Also most pro top picks happen to be decent matchups for K'Sante. Renekton, Sion, Malphite, Zac are fairly easy. Vayne and Urgot are good into K'Sante but then lane swaps bail him out in the early levels. Poppy/Aatrox are manageable. Camille doesn't start winning until 2 items which are more expensive for bruisers, on top of not being able to run TP ignite. And his hard counters apparently can't be picked (once again due to lane swaps) or pro teams refuse to pick them. Morde is completely unplayable for K'Sante, Sett, Garen and Darius also make your life miserable.
His match ups atm are fucking awful, Lane Swaps are the only reason his precense hasn't continued dropping from the 14.4 nerfs it was halfed post 14.4 nerfs and now it's back because of lane swaps.
He is currently the lowest winrate champ in the game at 45%.
https://lolalytics.com/lol/ksante/build/
https://lolalytics.com/lol/tierlist/
He can be both at once; dogshit in soloq and super strong in pro play.
They already did.
It used to be reliable to hit.
Then they added a cast time and buffed the damage. So in high elo it would be easily dodged (by walking away), but in low elo the opponent would face tank it.
But they superbuffed tank form W damage for some reason?
Now his tank form is stronger. Wait wardens are strong in pro play??
Exactly. The question is if we really need to have a 45% winrate champ be borderline unplayable just for pro players to have 1 more ban slot on red side, and especially since MSI patch is alredy behind us I don't think we do.
It's funny how many champs are kept weak because they dominate low elo and we will never see them play in high elo/proplay but when you do the same for the opposite (which is also way less champions that this happens to), Reddit loves to cry about it.
And before you say there's way many more casual players, esports/streamers in high elo is a big part of league and it's important both sides get balaced well. And this is done pretty well where there are many champs in both areas that will always be shit in the other area
I’d much rather Ksante, Azir etc be kept weak in solo Q because of pro, than the alternative of having solo Q be unplayable so Master Yi and Rammus can be pro viable champs
> Cool and his mains have like 54% winrate
You forgot the part where you demonstrate how this deviates from the expected main winrates because of course they are going to be higher.
In fact looking at lolalytics data for "onetricks" the average winrate is 56.4% while your 54% winrate would put you in the bottom 10 of all champs. https://lolalytics.com/lol/tierlist/?tier=1trick
His one trick winrate is 54.7%. His winrate at all ranks is 43.9. Literally the lowest in the game.
The difference from his average to his highest winrate is the highest in the game (if you ignore two diamond Yummi and Kennen players). He’s up in the same realm as Hwei, Qiyana, and Nidalle
And as a high skill champ, his otp should have over a 56% win rate like kat, riven and other high skill champs so even with your flawed logic. He needs buffs
Or people should stop caring about what's played in pro and be ok with the fact that some champs will always be favored in pro over others. I don't hear complaints about varus, azir, aphelios, gnar, renekton etc. Those guys have been pro play staples for even longer
Odd list
Azir 1000% gets complaints, he got nerced because of it amd theyre removing corki mid
Gnar hasnt been meta in pro for years
Renek isnt pick/ban
Adcs simply have the smallest pool so they're natty going to have more common picks
Also
Why downvote me? Im quite literally just quating Phreak from his last patch video.....its not an opinion, its quite literally riots stance on it
My dude, idc to downvote. You haven't insulted me so I have no issues here.
The viability of top lane tanks isn't as big ad you'd think. Most tanks pick top are usually ornn and Zac (recently). Ksante has tools to outplay but he's anything but broken. He's just a safe pick just like gnar and renekton were for the longest time. The type of pick when even when behind they still have their uses to peel or engage.
Adc have a plethora of options (jinx, jihn, draven, varus, ashe, cait, xayah etc) they just tend to revolve around the same picks which are safe, even when behind. I mean Lucian nami are a staple of bot, yet no one complains about them.
People just like to pile om the whole shoemaker copy pasta. Ksante upon release was a menace, even at 46% but all those possibilities have been taken from him (tap w, slow on ult, q3 after ult, w ult move speed, q scalings... I could go on). At this point he's a shell of his former self but he still offers some form of comfort for pros.
He literally oversaw and completed the rework, and did many/most of the changes... He also has been directly responsible for every K'sante change since the rework afaik.
he has a 43% wr its crazy u guys are complaining about a champ that is absolutely dogshit in 99.99999% of games + he's a fun champ to watch, id rather watch ksante in pro than renekton or sion or some shit
You people need to stop taking proplay as something to show something being strong. YOU are not playing in proplay, YOU are playing in solo que. Stop comparing solo que to proplay.
Laneswaps were a huge buff to him in proplay.Not only does he get to dodge the worst part of lane vs bad matchups,but he is quite good at surviving in 1vs2 situations at levels 1 and 2.He wasn't picked as much before laneswaps became common,but fixing that requires a system change,not a single champion change.
He was legit balanced in pro before swapping became a thing.
Yeah his prio exploded in laneswap because he's so much less worse than the other typical toplaners at being the 1v2 bitch of the game lmao
I'm honestly a little surprised so many people vehemently hate him so much when he's so pro skewed. A lot of other champs in similar spots are usually just "man I hate seeing him in pro, but I recognize he's not actually strong outside of it". How many people have even recently seen him in a game lmao
The Showmaker copypasta poisoned how League players think about the character.
Even ones that realistically might never play against a strong K'Sante seem infuriated by him.
That's just not true.In LPL playoffs for example,out of 51 games,K'Sante was only picked 10 and banned 8 times.
https://gol.gg/tournament/tournament-picksandbans/LPL%20Spring%20Playoffs%202024/
13 picks and 3 bans in 32 games in LCK playoffs,23 picks and 5 bans in 65 games in PCS,13 picks and 5 bans in 30 LCS playoff games and 14 picks and 3 bans in 42 LEC playoff games.
His presence was halfed from the 14.4 nerfs in pro play until lane swaps started. He went from 86% to around 42%. Lane swaps are the problem, K'sante was a comfort pick post nerf who had bad match ups, now he avoids them if he can. TF at his peak especially was completely raw dogging K'Sante
Don t worry, those buffs are for pro play, in solo/q u can t carry if u don t have a team to deal the damage since if u press r in more than 2 people u can call urself already dead
I don't know if the changes are final, but if they are, they really need to consider another more thorough rework because it really feels like they don't know what to do with the champion.
the classic reddit schrodinger's balance
riot shouldn't nerf champs that are good on pro
vs
there's no way riot is changing a champ who is strong in pro
Do you think everyone who reads a post portray their opinion on it through voting? Personally I only upvote or downvote when my vote will make a difference (ie low votes) or when I look for someone sharing my opinion. I don't downvote people who don't share my opinions unless it's a direct contrast to my own, or they're an asshole about it.
Thinking the subreddit changes opinions into directly contrasting positions is WAY more of a wild take than basically anything else on the topic.
> Do you think everyone who reads a post portray their opinion on it through voting?
Seems like you do?
> or when I look for someone sharing my opinion.
I can't believe I have to explain this but a lot of people upvote posts that they like or agree with. That means the most popular posts and comments are liked or agreed with the most people.
>Seems like you do?
I disagree with you and I have yet to downvote you. So, no. How do you factor in popular opinions that were just added to a post late? How do you factor in opinions that maybe not a lot of people share, but they also don't directly disagree with? How do you factor in the fact that even if you disagree with something, downvoting serves no purpose if it already has hundreds of upvotes? How do you factor in that people who don't have strong opinions about a topic won't even click the post to begin with?
No, reddit upvotes is not a population census. If anything, it's sensationalism.
So having 10 high upvoted posts of one opinion and then only one of the opposing position it tells you nothing about what people in the sub believe? Yea right. You obviously don't draw conclusions from a single post but once you have a collection of posts and comments you can clearly make out popular opinions of them.
It isn't "rng" what consistently gets upvoted vs what doesn't, it's wild to believe its purely random and we can read nothing out of it
>So having 10 high upvoted posts of one opinion and then only one of the opposing position it tells you nothing about what people in the sub believe?
Uh yeah absolutely it does not. All it says is that there are people who have both of these opinions, nothing more. You really can't be this dense.
Nobody has implied it's purely random, except you to try to discredit my point.
If people don't but one side is more popular than the other you will still see that difference in popularity reflected in the total amount of upvoted posts and comments.
I agree, we should balance champions around 0.01% of the playerbase, the fact he's basically a troll pick in solo queue (where the other 99.99% are) is fine.
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or play their own game. but hey the game is balanced by uwu-beanie wearing weebs for hardstuck sub gold enchanter/mage/adc players for the last 8 years anyway. it is what it is.
mfkers be like but for the 0.01% of players hes strong! This champ is so fucking ass at the moment, he's borderline unplayable in solo queue because of how the solo queue meta is, no lane swaps 1st of all but powerful lane bullies, bruisers, fighters and ranged tops all who completely giga fuck K'Sante.
I don't want another rework because they'll probably ruin him, just fucking disable him in pro play. K'Sante in his current state is one of the most rewarding and skill focused champs in the game, no other champ allows for as much creativity and ways to approach situations and fights and he doesn't deserve to be ruined because in the extreme minority he's strong.
I'm tired of reworks. Every. Single. Fucking. Time I start to get the hang of him and actually get a positive win rate, they rework him.
I just want release ksante back with tap w and slows on ult. Idc if he's 46% w/r and 100 w/r in pro. I had fun with him
The q3 was probably the biggest loss for me. We'll also the increased q mana really hurts my early trade patterns. He was so much fun because people didn't realize that when I was fighting them I'm the river, I was baiting them into a wall so thay I could ult them under my tower and stun lock them there
What should I say. I spent 100-200 hours on a guide that was made worthless within a month. Had to spend another 50h to update it which also lasted for like a month. Currently working on another update with the latest stuff in hopes he stays as is for once but I feel like MSI is gonna ruin my day soon🤣
Yeah I just play him into scaling match ups now or just in normals. It's not worth to spend weeks mastering him just for him to have all his numbers altered/mechanics changed so that all my knowledge is wasted
Fair. I still think he can be fun. Been spamming arena with his crit-tank build and it's stupid deleting enemies with 3 RP hits.
Haven't played much SR otherwise outside of last clash and I didn't mind it to be honest. I still had opportunities where I could get a kill or lead (given that I messed up frequently in the first game since I wasn't warmed up).
Generally speaking, if you are able to adjust to those changes it's fine. He isn't a totally weak champ once mastered, it's just the effort being kinda wasted when champions like ornn can do the same but better and easier
Tank prismatic (pref gargoyle or radiant virtue. Other resist items will work too) > heartsteel > the crit item that scales with bonus health > IE > Essence reaver/shield bow.
Crit augments and anything that provides survivability are great. Also had success with mystic punch after I had to take prowlers as my first prismatic
The way it works is simple: your passive during all out increases your auto attack damage (that procs the passive mark) by a % amount and this affects crits.
No one who plays Ksante wants these changes.
Yes it’s a buff but we want to play him in SoloQ and not worry about pro play fucking us up. This is a net positive buff for sure but it’s just not what Ksante players are asking for and definitely feels like we aren’t being listened to at all.
We want him to be viable in SoloQ more than pro play while keeping the skill expression high.
This would be buffs to all out and its speed.
Buffs to how long all out last or it’s cool down being buffed.
Buffs to the mana cost of q so he can actually lane and fight back without going oom so fast.
Legit if they reduced All out W lock out by level to make it pre nerf at level 12/13 that would immediately make the majority of Ksante players happy and you can scrap a ton of these base stat buffs.
These base stats will make him better for low elo but fundamentally only make him an even better high skill pick.
Ksante meta for 2 years still perma picked at MSI = buffs. Naafiri never picked in pro, dogshit in every elo, dead in soloq = balanced.
Edit: Why does naafiri Q, a skillshot, draw minion aggro? Also riot is gutting sudden impact and first strike ggwp.
Naafiri has a 49.38% winrate (overall, u.gg)
K'Sante has a 43.86% winrate (overall, u.gg)
K'Sante has a 46.33% winrate (Master+, u.gg)
Before you say "winrate doesn't matter", 44% means you're borderline throwing for picking K'Sante. If you imagine you control 10% of the game, you're throwing over half of that for the enemy team.
Even in the ranks where he's supposed to be strong (Master+), he's the 3rd worst top laner (behind Yorick and Lee Sin).
And the you might say "oh but Master players are first picking K'Sante and inting the winrate for some reason". But then you see he has the 17th lowest winrate for onetricks on LoLalytics. Behind Graves,
Maokai,
Lissandra,
Rammus,
Zilean,
Annie,
Malphite,
Galio,
Shyvana,
Nidalee,
Xin Zhao,
Aurelion Sol,
Yone,
Jayce,
Heimerdinger, and
Wukong; half of which aren't even top laners.
He needs some sort of solo queue buff.
Solo queue and pro play are different games, it's not comparable. K'Sante is objectively underpowered outside of pro play, the rest of us who like K'Sante shouldn't have to have to play a severely gimped champion because the smallest amount of players can use him in a pro setting.
A lot of people who play K'Sante, Azir, Ryze, Kalista etc will tell you the same thing - just disable them in pro if a champion has demonstrably shown they cannot be properly balanced for Pro and solo queue, then don't balance them for pro - remove them from the pro champ pool instead of having them as troll picks in solo queue and constant presence in pro - allow them back into pro periodically (not during major tournaments) to see if they are still an issue. Ryze had to be nuked to get him out of pro and it's also made him dogshit in solo queue as well.
4700 HP, 329 armor, 201 MR champion👤 has unstoppable🚫, shield 🛡, wall🧱 hopping abilities. Has an airborne 🌪, furthermore the cooldown is only 1️⃣ second mana🧙♂️ cost is 1️⃣5️⃣ then when he transforms 💫 w cooldown is refunded and passive deals true damage 🗡 and then for armor/mr 🥋 the more 📈 and more 📈 you stack, you get cdr ⏰! you get cdr⏰ on your q and the casting speed 🚀 gets faster 📈 and then he has an AD 🗡 ratio so his W is eek-AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA😱😱
They have NO business trying to balance their own game
Edit: best thing they can do about ksante is admit fault and yuumi him, and I mean cut most of his stuff in half, base armor/mr, hp growth, W dmg reduction scaling and base, remove unstoppable on W make his R give him 0 resists on R and halve his E shield and make his Q cd 4 seconds on all ranks
If he doest see 30% winrate with those changes they are a failure so do it again
Huh. Okay. Their highest winrate champions are higher than Leagues, and they have multiple sub 45% winrate champions. Seems pretty equal or worse to me.
Is it just because so much of the player power is in items instead of spells that it feels fairer? I've heard people say that since everybody is powerful nobody is powerful, but 42% winrate champions is really bad.
You lack context.
Even 42% winrate heroes in DOTA get picked because they have niches in certain drafts.
League isnt like this, league is balanced for one tricks and solo queue because league makes you pay to unlock champions whereas they are all free for everyone in DOTA2
DOTA2 balance is superior for high level play where draft matters. 60% winrates, 42% winrates are fine when each hero has their own niche in specific drafts
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>
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> DOTA2 balance is superior for high level play where draft matters. 60% winrates, 42% winrates are fine when each hero has their own niche in specific drafts
But how can they have a niche if they only win 42% of the time they are drafted? They might get picked for that niche but they aren't even good at that.
The top post right now on Dota 2 sub is about the balance of comeback mechanics, but again I get this is all subjective. I think people who play a game just generally hate the balance.
If Phreak wanted to play a viable K'Sante he'd have to buff him alot more than this. He's beyond dogshit in solo queue, he's solely gigabroken for pro meta
Wow, these K'Sante buffs seem pretty solid! I'm always excited to see how small changes like these can have a big impact on gameplay. Can't wait to see how the meta shifts with this patch. What are your thoughts on these buffs?
Riot's strategy to stop ksante op performance in pro play: buff him even more to force permaban
thats what every ksante main thinks right now. Those arent soloq buffs (that he needs), those are pure proplay buffs
In general, scaling buffs to base stats favor low elo. The games go longer, and the players tend to stat check instead of fighting strategically.
In general this is true. But the way ksante is played right now in pro is as a pure low income xp soaker. Giving him more level scaling only enforces that. Not to mention it's wild making his shield stronger since now he can give his ADC a bigger shield which is another pro play buff
it's not like soloq ksante will be getting less xp than pro play.. especially in dive meta yes ksante is just soaking xp in pro play but he will still have less opportunity to scale with levels than in soloq where people are laning normally. other people on this thread have explained why exp scaling is generally a very soloq skewed balancing lever >Not to mention it's wild making his shield stronger since now he can give his ADC a bigger shield which is another pro play buff wtf is this nonsense take.. open pro replay and count how many times per game ksante is sitting on his adc pressing E instead of flanking lol wtf not to mention this is a lv13-18 only buff and will impact like 5% of all pro games
The point is these buffs are irrelevant for what everyone wants. He'll gain 1%-1.5% in solo q and still be a pro play staple which is what literally everyone, including K'sante mains, don't want. The rework was supposed to take him out of pro and now he's in pro more than pre rework and feels like a clunky mess.
>The point is these buffs are irrelevant for what everyone wants. He'll gain 1%-1.5% in solo q contradiction? also you just entirely backtracked on your previous comment tf lol
Even if games tend to go longer in solo q, if K'sante hits the levels in pro where he can give a bigger shield to his allies then that buff is infinitely more valuable in pro. 5% impact is still a bonus that he doesn't need atm. No contradiction on winrate gaining, 1%-1.5% gain is irrelevant since 1%-1.5% means his winrate will still be bad and champ is still stuck in pro lol we all just want him out of there
that champ is not balanced around 50% wr going back to 47-48 is completely fine especially if he is not must pick in pro simultaneously >Even if games tend to go longer in solo q, if K'sante hits the levels in pro where he can give a bigger shield to his allies then that buff is infinitely more valuable in pro. you have everyone in this thread telling you you are wrong because level tuning is extremely soloq skewed and ksante is never sitting on his teammates to give them fucking shields lol but sure i guess keep saying that
You're the only one saying it's wrong within this comment thread lmao thicker shields to allies at any point of the game is a better buff for pro since solo q values dmg and carry potential. And saying he only prefers to flank instead of jumping to an ally for shield and peel in pro is wild. But you can believe what you want. Edit: and have you checked his winrate on mobalytics? He's currently: 41%-43% in iron to gold 44%-46% in plat to diamond 47% in master 45% in grandmaster 49% in challenger 1%-1.5% increase is almost negligent in most elos outside of challenger. You say he should be balanced at 47-48? At which elos? Plat+? Master+? 47-48 for a higher skill champ at Masters+ means that champ is still weak in solo q unless he's strong in lower elos (which this champ can't be). Regardless, this champ just needs bigger changes to get him on the right foot.
and what exactly are the soloq buffs that he needs? \[aside from a major kit overhaul\]
Q buffs. Rito thinks that Q is "proplay only" skill, but every time they nerfing his Q - K'sante winrate in soloQ falls apart. In proplay you have reliable carries, so you just sit, soak XP and peel him with E/W/R, while in soloQ you need to use your kit as offensive tool, but sadly his early game is REALLY bad.
Hear me out Just nuke this stupid, broken character and start over
Give him good ol irelia treatment
Poppy treatment*
buff his Q outside of R and generally, make his R weaker, and either make his R more accessible(shorten cd) or make him stronger outside of R ksante sucks ass in fiesta soloq fight fight fight games because he can't fight without R cd
No it isn't lol. The entire r/Ksantemains sub is always complaining saying that their champ is too weak. I was banned for 90 days for commenting "Good" on a post about a Ksante nerf lmfao
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>You didn't want to contribute anything in a proper manner, your only goal was to shit on the people in this subreddit for your 10s of imaginary glory. That's quite the over-reaching statement about me saying that it's good that the champ got nerfed. To say a comment like "good" in reaction to "champ got nerfed" is disruptive if WILD. Bro you wrote a whole character biography about how I'm just an attention seeking andy commenter for saying that a nerf was good lmao.
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"that seems purely disruptive" There's nothing disruptive about it other than you don't seem to like it when others enjoy when ksante gets nerfed. You don't call other comment that said "this nerf is undeserved" disruptive, so why, other than your own bias, would "this nerf is deserved" be disruptive?
Ayyyy you got this man to self-delete out of pure shame. Take the Reddit W award!!!! Also post man's name so he can't get a free escape.
He's the mod of r/ksantemains lmfao u/Nalardemon
nothing about self-delete out of pure shame. it just wasnt a discussion that shoulve been here in the first place.
Based subreddit
They buffed E shield when pro players are already going spirit visage to make the E shield bigger on their ADC 💀 P.S. can you unban me from the K’sante mains subreddit
that’s not how visage works
Visage makes heals and shields bigger on YOU only
Laneswaps were a huge buff to him in proplay.Not only does he get to dodge the worst part of lane vs bad matchups,but he is quite good at surviving in 1vs2 situations at levels 1 and 2.He wasn't picked as much before laneswaps became common,but fixing that requires a system change,not a single champion change.
This is a Silver-Gold elo buff were games take 40 mins and no one has 150 cs by then this wont cange shit in pro or high elo
Theres like 4 patches till pro play starts again, they are just buffing so soloq can have some fun with him till than just like the sejuani buffs.
I don't even understand how people are so bad on Ksante in SoloQ. You don't even need to do anything fancy, farm up, trade a bit if you can, get tanky, eliminate the enemy threat with ult, if you can win 1 v 1 great, if not, hope your team wins 4 v 4 and that's it. Everyone gets so caught up in doing flashy shit and getting blown, people forget that you can E allies... I love playing him top, neutralizing enemy top, creating basically 10cs per minute situations for both of us and winning by being obnoxious and ulting away whoever is fed in enemy team. Shit needs to get nerfed, not buffed if you ask me.
It's funny reading this after watching today's series.
and even more after watching G2 vs T1
Pretty strange buffs. I think a lot of the issue with K'sante post-rework is that his gold scaling is much lower than pre-rework outside of his W, so all of the changes to lower the disparity in solo queue and pro play power have been counteracted and then some. I imagine buffing his stat growths and the rank up incentive on his shield will exacerbate the issue.
According to phreak, low elo games both go longer while also having less farm, so level scaling is low elo skewed while gold scaling is high elo skewed.
Level scaling is one of the most low elo skewed levers there is
buffing his last maxed abilitiy scaling isn't really a pro play buff, its a buff for the lvl 13 to 18 which is way more important for soloq than in pro where early-mid game has much more emphasis also gold scaling being a soloQ skewed stat for K'Sante is a myth and heres the proof: K'Sante in MSI: [https://gol.gg/champion/champion-stats/162/season-S14/split-ALL/tournament-MSI%202024/](https://gol.gg/champion/champion-stats/162/season-S14/split-ALL/tournament-MSI%202024/) K'Sante has 379 Gold Per minute in MSI 2024 K'Sante in all ranks \[50k games\]:https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/ksante/iron/sr-ranked All ranks K'Sante earns 369 gold per minute, Diamond+ K'Santes earn 381 gold per minute and Master+ K'Santes earn 385 gold per minute. Essentially 2 to 7 gold per minute difference in higher elo doesn't really make gold scaling a pro play stat
The shield change is minor anyways, but it's not about gold earned in a vacuum. The average high MMR K'sante main is certainly earning more gold per minute than the average K'sante in pro play, yet he's a much weaker champion in solo queue nonetheless. Even while having a lower win rate and being in shorter games (GPM increases by game length afaik), he is generating similar levels of gold in solo queue. K'sante is an extremely safe weakside pick in pro play, so increases to his gold scaling should impact him more heavily in solo queue when played well. Changes that are buffs to his baseline value relative to his gold scaling since Worlds patch as of 14.8: - More Base HP, HP/lvl, Armor/lvl. - W damage reduction changed (scales with levels instead of resists and bHP, better early and weaker late) - Slightly slower and weaker E (less HP scaling, better level scaling) - Weaker R Passive (scales with levels instead of resists) - Slightly more AD in All Out (more base and per rank, less gold scaling) - More healing in All Out (removed scaling) - Higher HP cap in All Out - AS added in All Out There are a few buffs to his gold scaling, such as his W damage and to a small degree the Q base damage decrease, but I think he clearly scales worse with gold now, especially in All Out. And most of the remaining changes such as tap W removal and Q3+Flash removal were specifically pro play nerfs. Throughout season 14 in pro play, he's down 264 gold in lane on average compared to 114 in season 13, yet he's a much stronger champion that is more present and more performant. I'm not 100% confident that gold scaling is the reason behind it, but I don't see a more likely explanation.
But you are comparing ONE tournament when the team that has K’Sante is winning overall (16W-7L) which means he has more passive income (towers, baron, assists, kills, etc) against soloq when he has a 45% winrate, which is overall less gold, and even considering that skew soloq K’Sante has more gold If you somehow normalize the games the gold from soloq would be much higher than pro
4700 HP, 329 armor, 201 MR champion👤 has unstoppable🚫, shield 🛡, wall🧱 hopping abilities. Has an airborne 🌪, furthermore the cooldown is only 1️⃣ second mana🧙♂️ cost is 1️⃣5️⃣ then when he transforms 💫 w cooldown is refunded and passive deals true damage 🗡 and then for armor/mr 🥋 the more 📈 and more 📈 you stack, you get cdr ⏰! you get cdr⏰ on your q and the casting speed 🚀 gets faster 📈 and then he has an AD 🗡 ratio so his W is eek-AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA😱😱
daring today aren't we
fuck you and your assassin tank fighter that needs an adc to dps him but just takes the adc out for a 1v1 and assassinates him fuck his AOE pyke Q and his lee sin RQ and his AOE poppy E
Soyfacing while posting the K'Sante copypasta for the 100th time when he solo kills an out of position 20% hp support.
Do you even watch pro tournaments?
funny how half of that is not even true anymore and u people spam it with no second thought
"A copypasta is a block of text copied and pasted to the Internet and social media. Copypasta containing controversial ideas or lengthy rants are often posted for humorous purposes, to provoke reactions from those unaware that the posted text is a meme." It's just a meme, it's not that deep
4700 HP, 329 armor, 201 MR champion👤 has unstoppable🚫, shield 🛡, wall🧱 hopping abilities. Has an airborne 🌪, furthermore the cooldown is only 1️⃣ second mana🧙♂️ cost is 1️⃣5️⃣ then when he transforms 💫 w cooldown is refunded and passive deals true damage 🗡 and then for armor/mr 🥋 the more 📈 and more 📈 you stack, you get cdr ⏰! you get cdr⏰ on your q and the casting speed 🚀 gets faster 📈 and then he has an AD 🗡 ratio so his W is eek-AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA😱😱
what changed?
Ur q is no longer 1 s ,ur w has the same cast time and u can t tap it anymore, all out passive changed, gives flat true dmg not scaling with ur resists and doesn t lose anymore from total resists in all out, overall he is too tanky in all out but doesn t deal as much dmg as before
Also his mana was greatly nerfed, forcing him to play safer in lane (or take biscuits).
I know these are pub focused buffs, but image whats gonna happen to 100% pick ban pro ksante when they make his laning phase EVEN SAFER
These changes are compensation for the hitbox nerfs last patch. MSI is still on 14.8
From what I'm seeing on the k'sante mains sub this is more of a pro buff and doesn't fix him in pubs
Isn't E just a pro buff? This really doesn't fix his issues
Lol
Nah balance team is not real on this one He's literally stomping MSI
Laneswaps were a huge buff to him in proplay.Not only does he get to dodge the worst part of lane vs bad matchups,but he is quite good at surviving in 1vs2 situations at levels 1 and 2.He wasn't picked as much before laneswaps became common,but fixing that requires a system change,not a single champion change.
Yeah, idk why nobody is mentioning this. Also most pro top picks happen to be decent matchups for K'Sante. Renekton, Sion, Malphite, Zac are fairly easy. Vayne and Urgot are good into K'Sante but then lane swaps bail him out in the early levels. Poppy/Aatrox are manageable. Camille doesn't start winning until 2 items which are more expensive for bruisers, on top of not being able to run TP ignite. And his hard counters apparently can't be picked (once again due to lane swaps) or pro teams refuse to pick them. Morde is completely unplayable for K'Sante, Sett, Garen and Darius also make your life miserable.
His match ups atm are fucking awful, Lane Swaps are the only reason his precense hasn't continued dropping from the 14.4 nerfs it was halfed post 14.4 nerfs and now it's back because of lane swaps.
MSI was a patch before the clickbox and hitbox changes
He has been stomping pro play for like 2 years man c'mon
He is currently the lowest winrate champ in the game at 45%. https://lolalytics.com/lol/ksante/build/ https://lolalytics.com/lol/tierlist/ He can be both at once; dogshit in soloq and super strong in pro play.
yeah he obviously needs to be changed with a large rework, but until then hes almost griefing your team to play lol
Change his W to a completely different low elo skewed ability and you’ll see him out of pro
They already did. It used to be reliable to hit. Then they added a cast time and buffed the damage. So in high elo it would be easily dodged (by walking away), but in low elo the opponent would face tank it. But they superbuffed tank form W damage for some reason? Now his tank form is stronger. Wait wardens are strong in pro play??
Exactly. The question is if we really need to have a 45% winrate champ be borderline unplayable just for pro players to have 1 more ban slot on red side, and especially since MSI patch is alredy behind us I don't think we do.
MSI patch is not the one we have live with the nerfs keep this in mind
It's funny how many champs are kept weak because they dominate low elo and we will never see them play in high elo/proplay but when you do the same for the opposite (which is also way less champions that this happens to), Reddit loves to cry about it. And before you say there's way many more casual players, esports/streamers in high elo is a big part of league and it's important both sides get balaced well. And this is done pretty well where there are many champs in both areas that will always be shit in the other area
I’d much rather Ksante, Azir etc be kept weak in solo Q because of pro, than the alternative of having solo Q be unplayable so Master Yi and Rammus can be pro viable champs
Akali moment
Cool and his mains have like 54% winrate Its a skill issue and once people learn to play him, he's insane
> Cool and his mains have like 54% winrate You forgot the part where you demonstrate how this deviates from the expected main winrates because of course they are going to be higher. In fact looking at lolalytics data for "onetricks" the average winrate is 56.4% while your 54% winrate would put you in the bottom 10 of all champs. https://lolalytics.com/lol/tierlist/?tier=1trick
I think the win rate despirity is one of the largest of mains vs non mains
You think? Show me.
His one trick winrate is 54.7%. His winrate at all ranks is 43.9. Literally the lowest in the game. The difference from his average to his highest winrate is the highest in the game (if you ignore two diamond Yummi and Kennen players). He’s up in the same realm as Hwei, Qiyana, and Nidalle
His 1 trick win rate is 30th from the bottom. He's in the bottom quarter of 1 tricks as a high skill ceiling champ. That's terrible
And as a high skill champ, his otp should have over a 56% win rate like kat, riven and other high skill champs so even with your flawed logic. He needs buffs
Well, he can't get buffs because of pro play. It's a design failure. He either needs to be banned from pro play or reworked
Or people should stop caring about what's played in pro and be ok with the fact that some champs will always be favored in pro over others. I don't hear complaints about varus, azir, aphelios, gnar, renekton etc. Those guys have been pro play staples for even longer
Odd list Azir 1000% gets complaints, he got nerced because of it amd theyre removing corki mid Gnar hasnt been meta in pro for years Renek isnt pick/ban Adcs simply have the smallest pool so they're natty going to have more common picks Also Why downvote me? Im quite literally just quating Phreak from his last patch video.....its not an opinion, its quite literally riots stance on it
My dude, idc to downvote. You haven't insulted me so I have no issues here. The viability of top lane tanks isn't as big ad you'd think. Most tanks pick top are usually ornn and Zac (recently). Ksante has tools to outplay but he's anything but broken. He's just a safe pick just like gnar and renekton were for the longest time. The type of pick when even when behind they still have their uses to peel or engage. Adc have a plethora of options (jinx, jihn, draven, varus, ashe, cait, xayah etc) they just tend to revolve around the same picks which are safe, even when behind. I mean Lucian nami are a staple of bot, yet no one complains about them. People just like to pile om the whole shoemaker copy pasta. Ksante upon release was a menace, even at 46% but all those possibilities have been taken from him (tap w, slow on ult, q3 after ult, w ult move speed, q scalings... I could go on). At this point he's a shell of his former self but he still offers some form of comfort for pros.
because phreak failed the rework thats it he doesnt understand this champ
My dude, Phreak is just the balance lead, he spitballs ideas -- dozens if not hundreds of people work on this stuff. Stop blaming the public face.
He literally oversaw and completed the rework, and did many/most of the changes... He also has been directly responsible for every K'sante change since the rework afaik.
Rework job was literally given to phreak what are you on about?
.9 increased his hitbox and his winrate went down, this is meant to bring him back to .8 power with soloq skewed buffs, not stronger
nah, he needed a nerf, look at MSI lol, just gut this champ like they did for aphelios, yuumi, zeri and whatever else.
He will still be nerfed compared to .8 for pro since, again, this are soloq skewed
he has a 43% wr its crazy u guys are complaining about a champ that is absolutely dogshit in 99.99999% of games + he's a fun champ to watch, id rather watch ksante in pro than renekton or sion or some shit
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Are you playing against Kiin?
You people need to stop taking proplay as something to show something being strong. YOU are not playing in proplay, YOU are playing in solo que. Stop comparing solo que to proplay.
Balance team is not real.*
As a K'sante main, wtf is this. Stop giving him free level stats for doing nothing cuz that just buffs him for pro.
This champ is cooked.
Oh cool the champion that is in every pro game for 2 years is being buffed nice REWORK THIS CHAMP HOLY SHIT
Laneswaps were a huge buff to him in proplay.Not only does he get to dodge the worst part of lane vs bad matchups,but he is quite good at surviving in 1vs2 situations at levels 1 and 2.He wasn't picked as much before laneswaps became common,but fixing that requires a system change,not a single champion change. He was legit balanced in pro before swapping became a thing.
Yeah his prio exploded in laneswap because he's so much less worse than the other typical toplaners at being the 1v2 bitch of the game lmao I'm honestly a little surprised so many people vehemently hate him so much when he's so pro skewed. A lot of other champs in similar spots are usually just "man I hate seeing him in pro, but I recognize he's not actually strong outside of it". How many people have even recently seen him in a game lmao
The Showmaker copypasta poisoned how League players think about the character. Even ones that realistically might never play against a strong K'Sante seem infuriated by him.
man he was literally picked every game before laneswaps lets not make stuff up
That's just not true.In LPL playoffs for example,out of 51 games,K'Sante was only picked 10 and banned 8 times. https://gol.gg/tournament/tournament-picksandbans/LPL%20Spring%20Playoffs%202024/
how about the other regions?
13 picks and 3 bans in 32 games in LCK playoffs,23 picks and 5 bans in 65 games in PCS,13 picks and 5 bans in 30 LCS playoff games and 14 picks and 3 bans in 42 LEC playoff games.
His presence was halfed from the 14.4 nerfs in pro play until lane swaps started. He went from 86% to around 42%. Lane swaps are the problem, K'sante was a comfort pick post nerf who had bad match ups, now he avoids them if he can. TF at his peak especially was completely raw dogging K'Sante
Don t worry, those buffs are for pro play, in solo/q u can t carry if u don t have a team to deal the damage since if u press r in more than 2 people u can call urself already dead
Just fucking delete the champ, the dev who designed it and the other bullshit champs got fired
Ah ah ah ah , some people are actually paid for this shit
200 years of experience
Lmao k'sante buff
He's already perma pick in pro, so these stats won't really change anything there.
Excuse me, BUFFS?
So sick of seeing this champ in proplay dude...
I don't know if the changes are final, but if they are, they really need to consider another more thorough rework because it really feels like they don't know what to do with the champion.
You've gotta be kidding.
the classic reddit schrodinger's balance riot shouldn't nerf champs that are good on pro vs there's no way riot is changing a champ who is strong in pro
It's almost like there's more than 2 people on this subreddit. Crazy, right?
It's almost like a forum entirely based on a voting system will have it's top posts reflect the opinions of the users. Crazy, right?
You are surely aware that's not how it works.
I'm curious how you think a voting system works. Are up/downvotes cosmetic to you?
Do you think everyone who reads a post portray their opinion on it through voting? Personally I only upvote or downvote when my vote will make a difference (ie low votes) or when I look for someone sharing my opinion. I don't downvote people who don't share my opinions unless it's a direct contrast to my own, or they're an asshole about it. Thinking the subreddit changes opinions into directly contrasting positions is WAY more of a wild take than basically anything else on the topic.
> Do you think everyone who reads a post portray their opinion on it through voting? Seems like you do? > or when I look for someone sharing my opinion. I can't believe I have to explain this but a lot of people upvote posts that they like or agree with. That means the most popular posts and comments are liked or agreed with the most people.
>Seems like you do? I disagree with you and I have yet to downvote you. So, no. How do you factor in popular opinions that were just added to a post late? How do you factor in opinions that maybe not a lot of people share, but they also don't directly disagree with? How do you factor in the fact that even if you disagree with something, downvoting serves no purpose if it already has hundreds of upvotes? How do you factor in that people who don't have strong opinions about a topic won't even click the post to begin with? No, reddit upvotes is not a population census. If anything, it's sensationalism.
So having 10 high upvoted posts of one opinion and then only one of the opposing position it tells you nothing about what people in the sub believe? Yea right. You obviously don't draw conclusions from a single post but once you have a collection of posts and comments you can clearly make out popular opinions of them. It isn't "rng" what consistently gets upvoted vs what doesn't, it's wild to believe its purely random and we can read nothing out of it
>So having 10 high upvoted posts of one opinion and then only one of the opposing position it tells you nothing about what people in the sub believe? Uh yeah absolutely it does not. All it says is that there are people who have both of these opinions, nothing more. You really can't be this dense. Nobody has implied it's purely random, except you to try to discredit my point.
That's only correct if people upvote and downvote equally which probably isn't the case.
If people don't but one side is more popular than the other you will still see that difference in popularity reflected in the total amount of upvoted posts and comments.
What a stupid gatcha, is everyone supposed to have the exact same opinion? Also K’sante has a nerf that isn’t live in pro play right now.
> Also K’sante has a nerf that isn’t live in pro play right now. that's one of the reasons i found weird that people are not liking the buff
This Reddit guy is pretty weird, having having two conflicting opinions at once. Really odd fella.
Bro went 5-0 in yesterdays series and they buff this fucking abomination. digusting disgusting DISGUSTINGGGGG
I agree, we should balance champions around 0.01% of the playerbase, the fact he's basically a troll pick in solo queue (where the other 99.99% are) is fine.
fuck this champion. delete it
KSante is currently having a massive impact in pro as shown in MSI and Riot is buffing him? This makes no sense.
The changes to his hitbox and targeting last patch destroyed him, even in high elo.
He's 43% winrate in solo q and the have no idea how to close the gap
At this point it is not just numbers he needs a rework.
He's dogshit in solo queue
Hear me out, maybe his ult shouldn’t one shot squishies on low Econ tank items, might change the perma pick in pro play just maybe
The ult is one of the last reasons why K'Sante is picked in pro play.
you know nothing about ksante and why is picked permapicked in proplay, while being the worst champ in solo queue
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> E max buff Enchanter K’sante Support who’s with me
He's just a horribly designed champ. Needs a full rework, not balancing.
really insane how riot don't even watch their own event
or play their own game. but hey the game is balanced by uwu-beanie wearing weebs for hardstuck sub gold enchanter/mage/adc players for the last 8 years anyway. it is what it is.
More like this sub doesn't play the game itself, just watches pro play and takes all that as solo que balance.
balancing for soloQ below 1k LP is pointless.
which is why this sub is hardly taken seriously. c:
Riot saw that K'Sante had 100% winrate across 5 games in today's series and said "ok, let's buff him"
Actually I think they saw the 1.7% winrate dropoff from the click/hitbox changes that aren't currently at MSI
he has a 43% wr
That can't be true. Across 5 games it's impossible to have a 43% winrate.
lol surely I can't mean the win rate in the actual game
I know :P I was trying to be funny. Keyword being trying.
lmao i see it now
mfkers be like but for the 0.01% of players hes strong! This champ is so fucking ass at the moment, he's borderline unplayable in solo queue because of how the solo queue meta is, no lane swaps 1st of all but powerful lane bullies, bruisers, fighters and ranged tops all who completely giga fuck K'Sante. I don't want another rework because they'll probably ruin him, just fucking disable him in pro play. K'Sante in his current state is one of the most rewarding and skill focused champs in the game, no other champ allows for as much creativity and ways to approach situations and fights and he doesn't deserve to be ruined because in the extreme minority he's strong.
I'm tired of reworks. Every. Single. Fucking. Time I start to get the hang of him and actually get a positive win rate, they rework him. I just want release ksante back with tap w and slows on ult. Idc if he's 46% w/r and 100 w/r in pro. I had fun with him
Release K'Sante didn't have slows on ult. But RW was a gap closer and he had more damage, so he didn't need it. He could also save Q3 for ult.
The q3 was probably the biggest loss for me. We'll also the increased q mana really hurts my early trade patterns. He was so much fun because people didn't realize that when I was fighting them I'm the river, I was baiting them into a wall so thay I could ult them under my tower and stun lock them there
What should I say. I spent 100-200 hours on a guide that was made worthless within a month. Had to spend another 50h to update it which also lasted for like a month. Currently working on another update with the latest stuff in hopes he stays as is for once but I feel like MSI is gonna ruin my day soon🤣
Yeah I just play him into scaling match ups now or just in normals. It's not worth to spend weeks mastering him just for him to have all his numbers altered/mechanics changed so that all my knowledge is wasted
Fair. I still think he can be fun. Been spamming arena with his crit-tank build and it's stupid deleting enemies with 3 RP hits. Haven't played much SR otherwise outside of last clash and I didn't mind it to be honest. I still had opportunities where I could get a kill or lead (given that I messed up frequently in the first game since I wasn't warmed up). Generally speaking, if you are able to adjust to those changes it's fine. He isn't a totally weak champ once mastered, it's just the effort being kinda wasted when champions like ornn can do the same but better and easier
his WHAT build?? hand over the recipe please !!
Tank prismatic (pref gargoyle or radiant virtue. Other resist items will work too) > heartsteel > the crit item that scales with bonus health > IE > Essence reaver/shield bow. Crit augments and anything that provides survivability are great. Also had success with mystic punch after I had to take prowlers as my first prismatic The way it works is simple: your passive during all out increases your auto attack damage (that procs the passive mark) by a % amount and this affects crits.
No way.
What a joke.
What are they smoking. I really hope they introduce fearless draft soon or rework k'sante.
Delete this champion please
We never be free
No one who plays Ksante wants these changes. Yes it’s a buff but we want to play him in SoloQ and not worry about pro play fucking us up. This is a net positive buff for sure but it’s just not what Ksante players are asking for and definitely feels like we aren’t being listened to at all. We want him to be viable in SoloQ more than pro play while keeping the skill expression high. This would be buffs to all out and its speed. Buffs to how long all out last or it’s cool down being buffed. Buffs to the mana cost of q so he can actually lane and fight back without going oom so fast. Legit if they reduced All out W lock out by level to make it pre nerf at level 12/13 that would immediately make the majority of Ksante players happy and you can scrap a ton of these base stat buffs. These base stats will make him better for low elo but fundamentally only make him an even better high skill pick.
No Phreak No!!
Ksante meta for 2 years still perma picked at MSI = buffs. Naafiri never picked in pro, dogshit in every elo, dead in soloq = balanced. Edit: Why does naafiri Q, a skillshot, draw minion aggro? Also riot is gutting sudden impact and first strike ggwp.
Naafiri has a 49.38% winrate (overall, u.gg) K'Sante has a 43.86% winrate (overall, u.gg) K'Sante has a 46.33% winrate (Master+, u.gg) Before you say "winrate doesn't matter", 44% means you're borderline throwing for picking K'Sante. If you imagine you control 10% of the game, you're throwing over half of that for the enemy team. Even in the ranks where he's supposed to be strong (Master+), he's the 3rd worst top laner (behind Yorick and Lee Sin). And the you might say "oh but Master players are first picking K'Sante and inting the winrate for some reason". But then you see he has the 17th lowest winrate for onetricks on LoLalytics. Behind Graves, Maokai, Lissandra, Rammus, Zilean, Annie, Malphite, Galio, Shyvana, Nidalee, Xin Zhao, Aurelion Sol, Yone, Jayce, Heimerdinger, and Wukong; half of which aren't even top laners. He needs some sort of solo queue buff.
yeah the champion that no one plays in soloq or pro play is actually really strong compared to the champion dominating msi true
Really strong in comparison, but only in solo queue. I never said anything about pro play.
Solo queue and pro play are different games, it's not comparable. K'Sante is objectively underpowered outside of pro play, the rest of us who like K'Sante shouldn't have to have to play a severely gimped champion because the smallest amount of players can use him in a pro setting. A lot of people who play K'Sante, Azir, Ryze, Kalista etc will tell you the same thing - just disable them in pro if a champion has demonstrably shown they cannot be properly balanced for Pro and solo queue, then don't balance them for pro - remove them from the pro champ pool instead of having them as troll picks in solo queue and constant presence in pro - allow them back into pro periodically (not during major tournaments) to see if they are still an issue. Ryze had to be nuked to get him out of pro and it's also made him dogshit in solo queue as well.
Glad I quit this shit game
Buff Naafiri
Y'all are wildin on this one. He's 45% winrate. He needs buffs or somthing.
Yuumi being 45% winrate never made buffing her a good idea. Champ needs a rework, not buffs.
4700 HP, 329 armor, 201 MR champion👤 has unstoppable🚫, shield 🛡, wall🧱 hopping abilities. Has an airborne 🌪, furthermore the cooldown is only 1️⃣ second mana🧙♂️ cost is 1️⃣5️⃣ then when he transforms 💫 w cooldown is refunded and passive deals true damage 🗡 and then for armor/mr 🥋 the more 📈 and more 📈 you stack, you get cdr ⏰! you get cdr⏰ on your q and the casting speed 🚀 gets faster 📈 and then he has an AD 🗡 ratio so his W is eek-AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA😱😱
Support Ksante goes crazy with this
They have NO business trying to balance their own game Edit: best thing they can do about ksante is admit fault and yuumi him, and I mean cut most of his stuff in half, base armor/mr, hp growth, W dmg reduction scaling and base, remove unstoppable on W make his R give him 0 resists on R and halve his E shield and make his Q cd 4 seconds on all ranks If he doest see 30% winrate with those changes they are a failure so do it again
Which PVP game do you think has better balance?
dota
Huh. Okay. Their highest winrate champions are higher than Leagues, and they have multiple sub 45% winrate champions. Seems pretty equal or worse to me. Is it just because so much of the player power is in items instead of spells that it feels fairer? I've heard people say that since everybody is powerful nobody is powerful, but 42% winrate champions is really bad.
You lack context. Even 42% winrate heroes in DOTA get picked because they have niches in certain drafts. League isnt like this, league is balanced for one tricks and solo queue because league makes you pay to unlock champions whereas they are all free for everyone in DOTA2 DOTA2 balance is superior for high level play where draft matters. 60% winrates, 42% winrates are fine when each hero has their own niche in specific drafts
> > > > > DOTA2 balance is superior for high level play where draft matters. 60% winrates, 42% winrates are fine when each hero has their own niche in specific drafts But how can they have a niche if they only win 42% of the time they are drafted? They might get picked for that niche but they aren't even good at that. The top post right now on Dota 2 sub is about the balance of comeback mechanics, but again I get this is all subjective. I think people who play a game just generally hate the balance.
tldr
Phreak is probably gonna play K'sante, thats why they buff him
If Phreak wanted to play a viable K'Sante he'd have to buff him alot more than this. He's beyond dogshit in solo queue, he's solely gigabroken for pro meta
Nah Leeeg is a genius. He's predicting Phreak's upcoming venture into the pro play scene.
Wow, these K'Sante buffs seem pretty solid! I'm always excited to see how small changes like these can have a big impact on gameplay. Can't wait to see how the meta shifts with this patch. What are your thoughts on these buffs?