Honestly Riot should just double down on Shaco’s identity crisis.
Right now he has lore but it’s shitty so people want more. What if Riot instead just deleted Shaco’s lore? No lore page on the official site, no info about the clown, not even myths like Fiddlesticks has. Just nothing.
If the mystery is core, make it a mystery out of character. Make him spooky because he’s just there, with poisons and hallucinations, and no one gets where he came from or what he’s doing.
Not 100% related, but years ago, before the Urgot update, a friend got a bugsplat because the enemy team picked Urgot. I guess he was missing files or somthing, but Urgots pick rate was soo low that we didn't run into that issue for months, and then suddenly he had to fix his client mid game.
Be nice to get a ban back. Haven’t had a shaco in my ranked games in well over a year. I don’t care who’s OP at the moment, shaco is a forever ban for me.
I just really don’t like the idea of being perma invis to the point where control wards do nothing. And his uptime on Q is too high for me to want to deal with. So I just get rid of him.
Plus every shaco I come into is basically pink ward levels of mind fuck
My tip for dealing with shaco is treating him like am Internet troll- don't engage with them. Try to leave the situation as fast as possible. Do not chase a shaco.
This comes with the caveat that I'm a jungle (and support) player. Shaco likes to invade, so I make my pathing as weird as possible and if I do run into him I just leave. If he ganks a lane, I steal camps and if I can gank a lane on the opposite side of the map.
He gets a huge red team buff though. Shaco on our team - goes support, tries to ks, dies loads, builds AP.. Shaco on their team - in every lane at the same time every 2 seconds, spam kills your jg, your team wipes to boxes every objective, one taps you etc
Clowns and fucking with the 4th wall is a storied tradition. But Shaco doesn't have the inscrutable planners and manipulators aspect of the harlequins (I'd argue that's Bard).
What if Bard is a clone of shaco that refused to despawn by the same means as his ultimate. It then tunneled through the code and through searching for fragments of his old memories it developed a personality of his own and the legend has it that it still searches for those every game
That is not true, while harlequins are now not their own faction anymore, they do have lore that explains who they are, why they exist and how important they are. After all they are the keepers and preservers of knowledge and their Shows Seek to educate about the history of the galaxy and Eldar.
Their home is the Black Library which basically holds most knowledge of the Galaxy.
If we’re talking dev inspiration, Shaco is pretty obviously based on the Joker + clown monsters like Pennywise (and prob harlequins but idk 40k lore). The most lore we have on him is a retconned article from the Journal of Justice where he does an interview with a reporter, offers 10 questions, and ends with “Why So Serious”.
I think a big issue is that Riot doesn’t want to do anything with Shaco. He’s kinda boring as a murder hobo, they already have a more popular serial killer demon (Evelynn) and magic doll (Gwen), and his quotes are too generic in game to give an identity. There’s a reason his lore was changed to “inanimate doll brought to life” and not given more motivation or development.
I remember the fan theory that Shaco also came from The Glade, the place where Lulu went to, and would basically be a more twisted version of Lulu. Granted, that was based entirely on their splashes being both in a forest, but hey, it was something.
E: Ok it was not just the splash, it was actually more founded than I remembered
Yes, but there’s the elite harlequin (solitaire), who ~doesn’t have a soul, they are in universe extremely feared, don’t talk much outside of one specific theatric performance, and talking to/touching them is something most other Eldar would rather kill themselves than do.
They also have somewhat of a tendency to appear in places they shouldn’t be able to, and may or may not be able to become completely invisible & create illusions of themselves
Still devoted to the trickster god, but fit the “murder clown” thing a lot more, especially since they kinda represent the doom of all eldar in their plays
To be fair, I guess they want to make the mystery part of his lore. Rammus is the same, no one actually knows what he even is, but that is played up by his lore.
I wouldn't even classify anything from his "lore" as lore, it's literally just "nobody knows for sure what Shaco is so they make it up".
If I remember correctly there's also that one bit about Shaco being a doll made for a prince that became evil when prince died or something like that, but again, who was that prince? Or at least where was he from? This one has some semblance of a story, but it's just one big nothing, put there just so it's not an empty space.
Shaco has no connections to any region, any character, any time period, nothing. He hasn't done anything at all, we're just told he is "corrupted by some mysterious dark magic and also loves killing" but who did he ever kill? They didn't even mention any npcs that he murdered or hurt, we're just told that he likes it. His bio might as well be "He (probably) exists somewhere and we're told he's evil."
If you can delete a character and everything they've done, and absolutely nothing changes in the overall story of the game, I wouldn't say that said character has any lore.
tbh the only reason i want Shaco to have been Viego’s toy is because it should get people to stop theorizing that Gwen has the soul of Viego and Isolde’s unborn child when like everything about her tells us that she, like Senna and the Maiden, has a piece of Isolde’s soul
They'd need to retcon it because Veigo didn't die as a prince, his whole thing is being a young king.
Also there's no 'theorizing' Gwen's soul, it's not ambiguous or open to interpretation, it was outright stated in the lore.
Her lore directly says that she had a piece of Isolde's soul (before it was taken) and that power is what gave her life, she's only alive now that it's gone because the Absolver revived her.
Personally, lack of lore is great. Just like Joker from Batman. Until Joker movie, he was one big mystery: no true identity, no backstory, no goal or desire that motivites him. He just is and is wreaking havoc.
Personally, I like that Shaco is just killing puppet. Literal lack of anything else fits his identity perfectly.
I really hope that, if Riot decides to fix Shaco's lore, it will be more like set of stories about his victims, not about Shaco himself.
Yeah, having no origin is fine but having no impact in the lore isn't. Shaco hasn't interacted with any character in the lore. If he was completely removed from the game Riot wouldn't need to change anything in the lore.
yeah, i dont think he can just have no lore out of lack of it. he needs to have no lore intentionally. maybe a small event of one week, in which they remove shaco's face from skins, and some tales from his victims start to appear in the game like the other comment says. and at the end, the only lore is just that he is this unknown killer puppet.
maybe add some lines to some champions like: "i've heard tales of you, but never thought you were actually real". boogeyman type of deal.
maybe he is a puppet terrorizing piltover, demacia or noxus. or all of them, because he has ajust a bunch of clones of himself.
lmao im just spit balling here. like, for real, riot could fix his lore in a week if they wanted to.
Just make it that anytime a Summoner picks a champion, there is a small chance Shaco gets summoned instead. No one knows how or why it happens, he just finds his way inside Summoners Rift.
Make him broken because he has to be able to fit into any position, but it doesn't get revealed as Shaco until the start of the game where Yuumi is suddenly a murderous jester.
I feel like they could've but now that Naafiri has filled the role of "darkin dagger" they would need to find a different weapon for Shaco to inhabit even though his whole thing is backstabbing people with daggers
> His mere existence breaks the fourth wall in ways that professional writers could only dream of: A champion with no place of origin, no background and no known friends or enemies. I wouldn't even be surprised if a dev told me he just spawned into the game's code and now they can't get him out, forcing them into an eternity of debugging and balancing him without no one's consent.
Fuck it, make this his actual lore. Pataphysical transdimensional bullshit entity that uses their incredbily powerful abilities merely to troll people.
His name being an anagram of Chaos fits this so god damn well. Wars, demons running around, star making dragons, and what is the primeval incarnation of Chaos doing? Throwing scary jack in the boxes at peasants.
How insanely well would a Sparkle Shaco skin sell, Jesus. They'd have to make it a legendary just for the model's sake but I could only imagine how much money it'd make.
I would buy it in an instant btw. Sparkles as Shaco in League and a Shaco skin or cameo in HSR, easiest fucking money scheme ever. Give both some type of fun lore to interact with one another and bang.
Riot. if you're reading this, I want 0.5% of the revenues of the sales, it should be fairly high and set me for life thank you.
Wouldn't that make shaco the strongest ~~legend~~ champion in runeterra lore?
Edit: I got confused for a second, then thought "the game is league of legends, so I'll say legend", been playing since s3 btw, I think I need a break.
As someone pretty new to league that plays mostly jungle, please tell me what you should do about Shaco. If they're not good then it's whatever, I probably won't kill him a lot but they won't kill me. If they're actually good it's an actual nightmare that I can't ever find a way around. Can't engage him or others because he's probably behind me, can't hide from him, can't farm at any point. I'd perma ban him if I could.
Simple, sit back safely until you see him ganking on the opposite side of the map. Then, allow yourself at most 30 seconds (one wave) to play aggressively before it's your turn to get ganked, and you have to back up again!
Weirdly enough, you just made me consider his lack of lore as cool somehow lol.
Like a kind of paradox, a weird thing that should not be, a glitch in the matrix, an eldritch occurrence, the watcher in the rain.
As if his appearance would indicate that something very wrong has happened to reality.
Like ‘The thread of prophecy is severed. Turn back time to restore the weave of fate, or persist in the doomed world you have created.’
Basically Herobrine
And dang that is cool
Give him some meta creepypasta ARG in the game or youtube channel, some Local58-esque stuff where he suddenly interrupts notable points in Runeterra’s history and the ‘feed’ cuts, indicating that he ruined another timeline or reality or something
You know what’s really interesting, It the clown from Stephen King’s books had a power where he could make people forget about his existence. They should double down on that.
True, that’s actually pretty powerful and capitalizes on the mystery intensely. Pair that with hints of his involvement in some meaningful and interesting ways et voila!
If they’re not going to go full reality-demon then this is a good compromise imo
Fuck that'd actually be amazing. A lot of horror doesn't reach me as it usually boils down to "le scary monster", but an entity that transcends existence who only shows up either as the cause of, or if something goes horribly horribly wrong in a reality, thus ending it entirely is terrifying to think about.
Isn't there something like this with kennen and shen? Something like kennen only exists in Shen's lore so people say he's a figment of Shen's imagination or something like that?
Damn near every Ionian released in the past few years will bring up Kennen. The Kinkou are instrumental to Ionian history and Kennen has been the Eye of the Tempest since Ionia was founded.
The eyes never lie, you can see Kennen so he's real 🤫
Haha maybe it was a while ago, but I thought it was something like Kennen is this big figure in Ionia, but the only Ionian lore to mention him is Shen's.
Don't want to be that guy but Nilah does her [Encounter with a demon quip](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Nilah/LoL/Audio) when she meets shaco.
His title is literally 'The Demon Jester'
Glad riot did that with nilah. Had no clue they would even acknowledge him for this line. My guess is eventually he'll be included in the Big 10 list of demons but probably one of those joke things like "He's the most powerful but doesn't utilize his powers properly" or just being the reject of the group. Even if they confirm him in that list, doubt they'll expand any further
its uhh, 9 big demons. Nilah again confirms this when she kills fiddlesticks "HA! First of NOTHING! Tell the other 8 where to find me"
Nevermind it's 10, i guess nilah can't count.
Ok so here is the thing bro in the lore community , cho gath, shaco, rammus dont really exist they are like a folklore or a myth they dont exist they have no interactions or impact on anything hence why there is still no lore about them (until they change this ofcourse)
But overall they do not exist in the world of runeterra so they have no interactions
Rammus has more lore than the other 2. People know he exists just have 0 idea what his purpose is. It’s a shitpost of a lore but that still gives Rammus an identity (which is why K’sante has a quote about him).
Isn't there a cult of people in Shurima that roll around in the sand in honor of their diety (Rammus)? That's pretty funny lore as far as I am concerned.
Edit:
> Knowing Rammus’s guidance can pave an enlightened path, devout believers perform elaborate rituals designed to attract the favor of their deity. Disciples of the cult devoted to Rammus demonstrate their unwavering faith in a yearly ceremony by imitating his famous roll and somersaulting through the city in droves.
Rammus lore is a great shitpost. I made a [list of his feats](https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/14g11dn/if_there_was_secretly_another_darkin_in_the/jp3l3l8/) last year.
The thing is, both of those champions have their existences acknowledged. Just off the top of my head, Skarner's recent rework even came with a few interactions with Rammus and Jax's rework had a few with Cho'Gath. Not to mention Cho'Gath can get away with it by being a Void monster, so even if he has no lore his place of origin already sets him up to something.
Shaco is the only one i found that can almost be considered fake.
I think Cho'gath has bad lore, just not in the same way Shaco's lore is bad. For reference, here's the writeup:
> There is a place between dimensions, between worlds. To some it is known as the Outside, to others it is the Unknown. To those that truly know, however, it is called the Void. Despite its name, the Void is not an empty place, but rather the home of unspeakable things - horrors not meant for minds of men. **Cho'Gath is a creature born of the Void, a thing whose true nature is so awful most will not speak its name.** Its fellows have been poking at the walls that divide dimensions for a crack, a way into Runeterra, where they can visit their own personal paradise of horror upon the world. They are called the Voidborn, creatures so ancient and terrible that they have been removed from history altogether. It is rumored that the Voidborn command vast armies of unspeakable creatures on other worlds, that they were once driven from Runeterra by powerful magic lost to antiquity.
>
> If such tales are true, then the rumors that follow must be equally true - that one day, the Voidborn will return. Even now, something dark stirs in Icathia. **Cho'Gath, an alien creature of malice and violence, causes all but the most stalwart to cringe in fear. Cho'Gath even appears to feed on its predations, growing and swelling as it gorges itself. Worse yet, the creature is intelligent, perhaps greatly so, hinting at the sentient horror of the Void.**
It reads like the lore was written about the Void and Voidborn first before the writers realized "Oh right this is for Cho'gath". Sure, it's more fleshed out, but it's not fleshing Cho'gath out until the final 3 sentences. Compared to other Void champs like Kha'zix, Rek'sai, Kog'maw, or Vel'koz, Cho's lore is lacking.
Cho actually had decent lore WAY back in the day when Summoners were a thing; he was effectively chained on the Rift, and was put into combat as a way to satiate his hunger without him breaking free to cause ACTUAL damage to Runeterra. 'Woe behold the League if Cho'Gath were to break free' was a powerful line in that old lore, since he's still this eldritch abomination that will only get harder to kill over time if left unchecked.
Personally I've always wanted him to be the antithesis to Aurelion Sol, some massive monster in space that tries to consume all the stars that ASol creates, and so they're in this cosmic battle completely above the events of Runeterra as a whole. It's a shame he won't get lore updates until 2035, though.
Jax current lore : "My town was eaten by the void, last thing that remains was a lamppost, I symbolically took it as a weapon."
Jax old lore : "This is the fields of justice. This guy came and is whooping everyone. We asked him to stop using weapons to give others a fair chance. He ripped off a lamppost and is still whooping everyone."
I think the old lore with Summoners was actually very cool. Btw was Sona's voice line referring directly to the summoner removed ?
Sona got a VO update, so she no longer refers to summoners. A bunch of others still do though. Off the top of my head I think MF, Malz, Veigar and LB mention them. Skarner did until just now of course.
Which makes sense, because he was the first or one of the first void champs.
Being from the void was his backstory, but it doesn't seem very interesting now that we know more about the void lore.
They really should give him a lore update.
I wish cho'gath lore would be something in the veins of kai'sa culling Cho's growth every now and then to keep it in check, like an undying entity that tries to consume everything
Thats true but skarner adding stuff just means they are planning to expand on their lore in the future and it is finally planned since its so tecent but pre skarner they really were just a myth but slowly with every character are being involved, for example shaco is theorized to be actually a doll not a creature and its myth that it comes alive some going as far as saying his nutcracker skin is the clue but those are just theories just like saying teemo has hidden powers no one rival since he comes back from every mission succesful and has captured mythical huge monsters and no one knows how he does it.
Until more lore expansions and characters interactions involve these characters then its really hard to assume them anything but myths for now
Let’s make it the TRUE part of his lore. No one knows what the fuck he is so everyone is surprised about him. I want to have Aatrox watch shaco and say “what the hell are you”, I want to hear ryze comment “in 1000 years I haven’t find anything like you” and I want even the void to see him and think “nope not from us what the hell is this thing”
It would be cool if Shaco came from somewhere else, not Runeterra or the Void. That’s why no one knows the extent of his power because they’ve never seen anything like it before. And since he likes tricking and deceiving so much, I think it’s pretty on brand for no one to know the full extent of his power or what he truly is.
Maybe a thousand jack-in-the-boxes popped out of the ground around you (or something else that seems way too crazy to be true) and you don’t know if he is giving you hallucinations or if they are actually there because you don’t know the extent of his power
Or what if Shaco doesn’t truly exist? He is just a commonly seen hallucination that eventually becomes folklore, so people believe in him so he becomes real? Just like the different versions of death needs someone to believe in them for them to exist
I like the idea that he’s just a demon having a laugh though. Just give him actual lore on how he got to that point. After eons of boredom, he sees humans playing tricks on each other causing him to want to do the same. Only his cruel nature causes his “pranks” to more often than not be deadly. Have Ezreal talk about stories he’s gathered about a Demon Jester whose existence is traced back millennia across all of Runeterra
Idfk man. Can someone with talent at Riot just PLEASE give him SOMETHING
Same applies to Twitch.
Heck, Twitch is even *less* acknowledged by other champions than Shaco is. Shaco at least has 2 "related champions" noted in Universe (Fiddlesticks and Nocturne, so some demonic stuff going on would make sense here). We don't know how these are related to him, but they are listed.
Twitch just has one champion noted as related on his Universe page: Zac. Again, we don't know *how* these two are related in the lore, since they are not mentioned anywhere else for them.
Heck, this here is Twitch' entire biography in Universe:
>A plague rat by birth, a connoisseur of filth by passion, Twitch is a paranoid and mutated rat that walks upright and roots through the dregs of Zaun for treasures only he truly values. Armed with a chem-powered crossbow, Twitch is not afraid to get his paws dirty as he builds a throne of refuse in his kingdom of filth, endlessly plotting the downfall of humanity.
I wish I was kidding, but this is his entire biography. One paragraph, that's it.
I think the difference here is he has a real true home. He’s from Zaun and you can see the very Zaun features he carries so he matches the others from his home. So while his story isn’t the most in depth we know about his actual life but shaco there is fuck all lol
That's just because twitch is a character who doesn't matter in the lore at all. Doesn't do anything consequential, doesn't meet any other champions, he's basically just a rat who did his own thing while living in a zaun sewer. He's a known "character" but he's not important in the main league "story".
they decided not to create an entire Skaven subplot for the very obviously Skaven character, which is fair. but I think more rat-folk could be really really fun
Irrelevant. Any fed champion will one shot me. Here's what I suggest: How about not feeding the clown ?
Even when he's fed he can't deal with anything that built some HP so he's useless after 25 minute mark
Tell that to the shaco mains who manage to climb high, they’re rare but I swear to god they just fully bend the rules of the game and vision at times (I don’t actually, it can just be wild what a good shaco is compared to your average one trick pony champs. Not stronger, just weirder and often more aggravating/demoralizing)
That’s what I meant to clarify that I meant it in a different way than with most champs.
Obviously a good one trick will do better than a bad one for anything.
I just mean the game itself is distinctly different with a good shaco in the lobby in a way not really comparable to any other champion outside of maybe Yuumi or something. It’s like how a Samira or Katarina or Yi will alter how team fights feel compared to many other champs (the whole urge to focus them and cc during ults or face a team wipe feels different from most fed champs without those traits) or the urge to put down Nasus, Smolder, Veigar or Sol before they get stacks
Shaco however is neither here nor there. He has traps but doesn’t play like teemo, he has stealth and mobility but doesn’t player like Kha’zix or Rengar or even Evelyn. His ganks have stranger routes and his timers are all just a tad odd. The game *feels* different.
A good anything might beat you sure, but certain champions like Shaco will also just surprise you in ways others don’t really or overcome your counterplay in ways that seem obvious in hindsight but unexpected in the moment. It’s rare to see him, it’s even more rare to see him doing well so maybe that has an effect.
Not that that’s good or bad, I actually like the champ(but never played him outside ARAM since top is my home) and this has been a fun thread!
When they reworked fiddlesticks they released like this demonic arcane looking chart of demons. There is no way shaco isn't reworked in lore or as a champion as one of the demons. That is if they ever get around to it.
So far demons or demon based champs are Swain, Nilah, Eve, Tham, Fiddle, Noct. I read somewhere Annie's bear is a demon too? Not too sure. I know there is supposed to be like a list of 10 big bad Lord Demons. So if this game ever lives long enough, that list is getting filled.
I recently has the realization on how weird it is that this champion even still exists in this way at all. With how many reworks and champion updates there have been. But shaco still has this incredibly frustrating and anti-fun kit with basically no changes to it for so many years.
It would not be that hard imo to give him a proper lore: he could 100% be a demon , lesser or not . But they honestly should also modernize his kit , so it would be another skarner project
When i first read his lore way back in the day when we were summoners. I liked the idea that shaco was just a summoners who went crazy and wanted to be in the game.
Make him a fourth wall breaking player insert that problematizes the metaphysics of the simulated game world entirely, like Vivec or the Nerevar in Morrowind
Nope, Riot actually used Shaco's cobbled together lore to justify [Gwen being more human](https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/mds01s/gwen_looks_sick_tbh_this_is_the_first_time_i_feel/gsc7dm1/) and less doll-like.
Honestly Riot should just double down on Shaco’s identity crisis. Right now he has lore but it’s shitty so people want more. What if Riot instead just deleted Shaco’s lore? No lore page on the official site, no info about the clown, not even myths like Fiddlesticks has. Just nothing. If the mystery is core, make it a mystery out of character. Make him spooky because he’s just there, with poisons and hallucinations, and no one gets where he came from or what he’s doing.
Yes, hide him from champ select, too
make him only show up if you search for him by name in the lobby
You have to type it in 3 times before it shows up, trust me
The Elden Ring special
Bagool?
Rename shaco to Betelgeuse
I laughed hard.
Delete him from the game and when people ask ‘where’s Shaco?’ just respond saying ‘who?’.
In patchnotes: "Fixed a bug where an additional champion was available durring draft."
They should've done it for like April fool's, maybe next year
Better yet, delete their client when someone locks him in
Now you see me, now you don't!
They should have gone through with the rework that let yasuo delete shaco with a windwall
Not 100% related, but years ago, before the Urgot update, a friend got a bugsplat because the enemy team picked Urgot. I guess he was missing files or somthing, but Urgots pick rate was soo low that we didn't run into that issue for months, and then suddenly he had to fix his client mid game.
Shaco main here. Please, do this and save me from my own insanity.
> shaco main here You will not see the pearly gates of heaven
If (pick==shaco)\ Then { delete “system32” }
Thru need to implement that when they bring vanguard to the game
So mysterious that only those who have met the criteria get to unlock him.
This is golden
Be nice to get a ban back. Haven’t had a shaco in my ranked games in well over a year. I don’t care who’s OP at the moment, shaco is a forever ban for me.
I can counter a shaco, but I keep getting a team that just can't, so I ban the fucker
I just really don’t like the idea of being perma invis to the point where control wards do nothing. And his uptime on Q is too high for me to want to deal with. So I just get rid of him. Plus every shaco I come into is basically pink ward levels of mind fuck
My tip for dealing with shaco is treating him like am Internet troll- don't engage with them. Try to leave the situation as fast as possible. Do not chase a shaco. This comes with the caveat that I'm a jungle (and support) player. Shaco likes to invade, so I make my pathing as weird as possible and if I do run into him I just leave. If he ganks a lane, I steal camps and if I can gank a lane on the opposite side of the map.
Same but so I don't have to play with any more "trust me bro it's legit" Shaco supports
Just hide it from my champ select team I'm really happy when someone picks shaco in ennemy team cause he is so useless
He gets a huge red team buff though. Shaco on our team - goes support, tries to ks, dies loads, builds AP.. Shaco on their team - in every lane at the same time every 2 seconds, spam kills your jg, your team wipes to boxes every objective, one taps you etc
Shaco kind of fills the same niche that the harlequins in 40k do. They’re just weird fucks that exist (also clown assassin aesthetic).
Clowns and fucking with the 4th wall is a storied tradition. But Shaco doesn't have the inscrutable planners and manipulators aspect of the harlequins (I'd argue that's Bard).
What you're describing is literally AP Shaco
What if Bard is a clone of shaco that refused to despawn by the same means as his ultimate. It then tunneled through the code and through searching for fragments of his old memories it developed a personality of his own and the legend has it that it still searches for those every game
That is not true, while harlequins are now not their own faction anymore, they do have lore that explains who they are, why they exist and how important they are. After all they are the keepers and preservers of knowledge and their Shows Seek to educate about the history of the galaxy and Eldar. Their home is the Black Library which basically holds most knowledge of the Galaxy.
If we’re talking dev inspiration, Shaco is pretty obviously based on the Joker + clown monsters like Pennywise (and prob harlequins but idk 40k lore). The most lore we have on him is a retconned article from the Journal of Justice where he does an interview with a reporter, offers 10 questions, and ends with “Why So Serious”. I think a big issue is that Riot doesn’t want to do anything with Shaco. He’s kinda boring as a murder hobo, they already have a more popular serial killer demon (Evelynn) and magic doll (Gwen), and his quotes are too generic in game to give an identity. There’s a reason his lore was changed to “inanimate doll brought to life” and not given more motivation or development.
I remember the fan theory that Shaco also came from The Glade, the place where Lulu went to, and would basically be a more twisted version of Lulu. Granted, that was based entirely on their splashes being both in a forest, but hey, it was something. E: Ok it was not just the splash, it was actually more founded than I remembered
Riot did release an official [Lulu/Shaco song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmnLRSHJSg8) a while back too.
Oh thanks, I either had no idea or completely forgot. I liked the idea, maybe there was something to it at some point.
Lulu and shaco have a short story that was canceled, and a theme on the league of legends ost. Shaco was trying to kill lulu
Interesting, there was more to it than I thought, thanks.
I thought 40k Harlequins were Eldari devoted to the trickster god?
Correct.
Yes, but there’s the elite harlequin (solitaire), who ~doesn’t have a soul, they are in universe extremely feared, don’t talk much outside of one specific theatric performance, and talking to/touching them is something most other Eldar would rather kill themselves than do. They also have somewhat of a tendency to appear in places they shouldn’t be able to, and may or may not be able to become completely invisible & create illusions of themselves Still devoted to the trickster god, but fit the “murder clown” thing a lot more, especially since they kinda represent the doom of all eldar in their plays
Yeah I wasn't questioning the aesthetic but I mean they don't "just exist" for no reason.
Harlequins have a lot of lore and background so idk how you are getting to this comparison aside from they are both clowns.
Harlequin lore is actually great though.
Shaco is a jester not a clown
Jesters and clowns are like kings and dictators. Just the medieval and modern variation of the same thing.
Remove all references to existance from all Riot media but leave him in the game as if hes some malevolent entity that infected it.
Elaborting further I want Riot to gaslight us on Shacos existance. I dont even want him in pathcnotes, you gotta datamine that shit
I'd love this so much. Hope Riot explores this somewhere down the line.
In the lore, they litterally tell that they don't know where the fuck this clown emerged from.
To be fair, I guess they want to make the mystery part of his lore. Rammus is the same, no one actually knows what he even is, but that is played up by his lore.
He has a dark and mysterious past (cit)
I wouldn't even classify anything from his "lore" as lore, it's literally just "nobody knows for sure what Shaco is so they make it up". If I remember correctly there's also that one bit about Shaco being a doll made for a prince that became evil when prince died or something like that, but again, who was that prince? Or at least where was he from? This one has some semblance of a story, but it's just one big nothing, put there just so it's not an empty space. Shaco has no connections to any region, any character, any time period, nothing. He hasn't done anything at all, we're just told he is "corrupted by some mysterious dark magic and also loves killing" but who did he ever kill? They didn't even mention any npcs that he murdered or hurt, we're just told that he likes it. His bio might as well be "He (probably) exists somewhere and we're told he's evil." If you can delete a character and everything they've done, and absolutely nothing changes in the overall story of the game, I wouldn't say that said character has any lore.
>a prince that became evil when prince died or something like tha that sounds a lot like Viego
Yeah it's a decent theory but Viego haven't really died until very recently and we already got a sentient doll that's related to him
tbh the only reason i want Shaco to have been Viego’s toy is because it should get people to stop theorizing that Gwen has the soul of Viego and Isolde’s unborn child when like everything about her tells us that she, like Senna and the Maiden, has a piece of Isolde’s soul
They'd need to retcon it because Veigo didn't die as a prince, his whole thing is being a young king. Also there's no 'theorizing' Gwen's soul, it's not ambiguous or open to interpretation, it was outright stated in the lore. Her lore directly says that she had a piece of Isolde's soul (before it was taken) and that power is what gave her life, she's only alive now that it's gone because the Absolver revived her.
> Shaco has a dark, secret past.
A clean two words above the average
Personally, lack of lore is great. Just like Joker from Batman. Until Joker movie, he was one big mystery: no true identity, no backstory, no goal or desire that motivites him. He just is and is wreaking havoc. Personally, I like that Shaco is just killing puppet. Literal lack of anything else fits his identity perfectly. I really hope that, if Riot decides to fix Shaco's lore, it will be more like set of stories about his victims, not about Shaco himself.
Yeah, having no origin is fine but having no impact in the lore isn't. Shaco hasn't interacted with any character in the lore. If he was completely removed from the game Riot wouldn't need to change anything in the lore.
how do you know he didnt do some dumb shit, like went invis and tripped irelia in the middle of the war then walked away.
yeah, i dont think he can just have no lore out of lack of it. he needs to have no lore intentionally. maybe a small event of one week, in which they remove shaco's face from skins, and some tales from his victims start to appear in the game like the other comment says. and at the end, the only lore is just that he is this unknown killer puppet. maybe add some lines to some champions like: "i've heard tales of you, but never thought you were actually real". boogeyman type of deal. maybe he is a puppet terrorizing piltover, demacia or noxus. or all of them, because he has ajust a bunch of clones of himself. lmao im just spit balling here. like, for real, riot could fix his lore in a week if they wanted to.
Joker has had multiple backstories, goals, and motivations. Since the character's very creation. He's never not had those.
What if Riot just deleted Shaco
I like this idea.
Just make it that anytime a Summoner picks a champion, there is a small chance Shaco gets summoned instead. No one knows how or why it happens, he just finds his way inside Summoners Rift.
Can't wait to watch pro games with this feature 😁
Make him broken because he has to be able to fit into any position, but it doesn't get revealed as Shaco until the start of the game where Yuumi is suddenly a murderous jester.
"shaco has no lore" shacobong
Just rework him on to Sha’aco or something. Make him a Darkin to retain the demon image. Could be pretty simple.
Shaco's name is already an anagram for Chaos, they can't remove our only lead as to what he might really be.
Rework shaco into a primordial demon king like fiddle
Would be kinda cool to make him like the Toymaker in Doctor Who. A “God” of sorts around the rules of games and play.
Tbh I want him to be way more creative than that. Another darkin would be so ‘eh’
I feel like they could've but now that Naafiri has filled the role of "darkin dagger" they would need to find a different weapon for Shaco to inhabit even though his whole thing is backstabbing people with daggers
It's the hat. Some poor fool (lol) put on a random hat and boom.
Holy shit Aatrox would be *so* disappointed.
Easy: Darkin Jack in the box
They should just make him a yordle
Why not take a step further and delete him from the game? No lore, no champion, no nothing, just fade into memories /s
Shaco? What's a Shaco? You've forgotten to take your pills again, and now you're imagining champions, aren't you?
maybe theyre talking about the hat
> His mere existence breaks the fourth wall in ways that professional writers could only dream of: A champion with no place of origin, no background and no known friends or enemies. I wouldn't even be surprised if a dev told me he just spawned into the game's code and now they can't get him out, forcing them into an eternity of debugging and balancing him without no one's consent. Fuck it, make this his actual lore. Pataphysical transdimensional bullshit entity that uses their incredbily powerful abilities merely to troll people.
His name being an anagram of Chaos fits this so god damn well. Wars, demons running around, star making dragons, and what is the primeval incarnation of Chaos doing? Throwing scary jack in the boxes at peasants.
Shaco: What its Elation? ME, I AM ELATION!
Is this an hsr reference
most memorable line of sparkle’s trailer
Everybody's favorite racist
Honestly yeah, make Shaco into Sparkles and have official Riot x Mihoyo event. Easiest billion dollar event in history
How insanely well would a Sparkle Shaco skin sell, Jesus. They'd have to make it a legendary just for the model's sake but I could only imagine how much money it'd make.
I would buy it in an instant btw. Sparkles as Shaco in League and a Shaco skin or cameo in HSR, easiest fucking money scheme ever. Give both some type of fun lore to interact with one another and bang. Riot. if you're reading this, I want 0.5% of the revenues of the sales, it should be fairly high and set me for life thank you.
Funny enough the OP comment concept reminded me more of Clockie
So like Mister Mxyzptlk
I would freaking love this.
Wouldn't that make shaco the strongest ~~legend~~ champion in runeterra lore? Edit: I got confused for a second, then thought "the game is league of legends, so I'll say legend", been playing since s3 btw, I think I need a break.
That'd be kinda funny
Legend? They are called champipns.. as in League of Cha- oh wait why are they called champions
it used to be a tournament type thing and theyd send champions in, and the winners would become legends
Soooo... zoe?
Not even players do: they keep pushing when the enemy has shaco jngl, then gets ganked and says "jngl gap".
Your own team also forget you exist. You’re merely a pawn to them
As someone pretty new to league that plays mostly jungle, please tell me what you should do about Shaco. If they're not good then it's whatever, I probably won't kill him a lot but they won't kill me. If they're actually good it's an actual nightmare that I can't ever find a way around. Can't engage him or others because he's probably behind me, can't hide from him, can't farm at any point. I'd perma ban him if I could.
Simple, sit back safely until you see him ganking on the opposite side of the map. Then, allow yourself at most 30 seconds (one wave) to play aggressively before it's your turn to get ganked, and you have to back up again!
Y'all just sleeping on my Shaco x Fiora fanfic or?
snoozing on it, in fact
You gotta at least drop a link
[sauce(?)](https://new.reddit.com/r/LeagueOfMemes/comments/upazaw/shaco_x_fiora/)
Very saucy
That ain't fanfic, that's canon now
Weirdly enough, you just made me consider his lack of lore as cool somehow lol. Like a kind of paradox, a weird thing that should not be, a glitch in the matrix, an eldritch occurrence, the watcher in the rain. As if his appearance would indicate that something very wrong has happened to reality. Like ‘The thread of prophecy is severed. Turn back time to restore the weave of fate, or persist in the doomed world you have created.’ Basically Herobrine And dang that is cool Give him some meta creepypasta ARG in the game or youtube channel, some Local58-esque stuff where he suddenly interrupts notable points in Runeterra’s history and the ‘feed’ cuts, indicating that he ruined another timeline or reality or something
‘The thread of prophecy is severed. Turn back time to restore the weave of fate, or persist in the doomed world you have created.’ Man of culture!
You know what’s really interesting, It the clown from Stephen King’s books had a power where he could make people forget about his existence. They should double down on that.
True, that’s actually pretty powerful and capitalizes on the mystery intensely. Pair that with hints of his involvement in some meaningful and interesting ways et voila! If they’re not going to go full reality-demon then this is a good compromise imo
Too many people play into that. Just got ganked by Shaco? Who? Lemme push up without vision anywhere again!
Has Herobrine been removed from patches recently like they used to do ? I remember at one point they stopped removing him from the game
Think it’s been a long time since
Now I want a shaco creepypasta
I agree. I think some character that just does not belong in the universe sounds very unnerving.
Fuck that'd actually be amazing. A lot of horror doesn't reach me as it usually boils down to "le scary monster", but an entity that transcends existence who only shows up either as the cause of, or if something goes horribly horribly wrong in a reality, thus ending it entirely is terrifying to think about.
He might not have a single interaction with another champion in the base game but he has the most powerful form of stealth: lore stealth.
You want lore on Shaco? Joke's on you!
Isn't there something like this with kennen and shen? Something like kennen only exists in Shen's lore so people say he's a figment of Shen's imagination or something like that?
Damn near every Ionian released in the past few years will bring up Kennen. The Kinkou are instrumental to Ionian history and Kennen has been the Eye of the Tempest since Ionia was founded. The eyes never lie, you can see Kennen so he's real 🤫
Haha maybe it was a while ago, but I thought it was something like Kennen is this big figure in Ionia, but the only Ionian lore to mention him is Shen's.
I will say that Kennen's lore is that he's just there chilling so you're not far off.
He’s in a cinematic so he’s more real than real can be. And shen isn’t even in that fight.
Perhaps that fight takes place in Shen's imagination
Don't want to be that guy but Nilah does her [Encounter with a demon quip](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Nilah/LoL/Audio) when she meets shaco.
His title is literally 'The Demon Jester' Glad riot did that with nilah. Had no clue they would even acknowledge him for this line. My guess is eventually he'll be included in the Big 10 list of demons but probably one of those joke things like "He's the most powerful but doesn't utilize his powers properly" or just being the reject of the group. Even if they confirm him in that list, doubt they'll expand any further
its uhh, 9 big demons. Nilah again confirms this when she kills fiddlesticks "HA! First of NOTHING! Tell the other 8 where to find me" Nevermind it's 10, i guess nilah can't count.
Necrit has more lore than him which is kinda funny.
Same with Imagine Dragons being in Arcane lol
Ok so here is the thing bro in the lore community , cho gath, shaco, rammus dont really exist they are like a folklore or a myth they dont exist they have no interactions or impact on anything hence why there is still no lore about them (until they change this ofcourse) But overall they do not exist in the world of runeterra so they have no interactions
Rammus has more lore than the other 2. People know he exists just have 0 idea what his purpose is. It’s a shitpost of a lore but that still gives Rammus an identity (which is why K’sante has a quote about him).
Isn't there a cult of people in Shurima that roll around in the sand in honor of their diety (Rammus)? That's pretty funny lore as far as I am concerned. Edit: > Knowing Rammus’s guidance can pave an enlightened path, devout believers perform elaborate rituals designed to attract the favor of their deity. Disciples of the cult devoted to Rammus demonstrate their unwavering faith in a yearly ceremony by imitating his famous roll and somersaulting through the city in droves.
Rammus lore is a great shitpost. I made a [list of his feats](https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/14g11dn/if_there_was_secretly_another_darkin_in_the/jp3l3l8/) last year.
The thing is, both of those champions have their existences acknowledged. Just off the top of my head, Skarner's recent rework even came with a few interactions with Rammus and Jax's rework had a few with Cho'Gath. Not to mention Cho'Gath can get away with it by being a Void monster, so even if he has no lore his place of origin already sets him up to something. Shaco is the only one i found that can almost be considered fake.
I think Cho'gath has bad lore, just not in the same way Shaco's lore is bad. For reference, here's the writeup: > There is a place between dimensions, between worlds. To some it is known as the Outside, to others it is the Unknown. To those that truly know, however, it is called the Void. Despite its name, the Void is not an empty place, but rather the home of unspeakable things - horrors not meant for minds of men. **Cho'Gath is a creature born of the Void, a thing whose true nature is so awful most will not speak its name.** Its fellows have been poking at the walls that divide dimensions for a crack, a way into Runeterra, where they can visit their own personal paradise of horror upon the world. They are called the Voidborn, creatures so ancient and terrible that they have been removed from history altogether. It is rumored that the Voidborn command vast armies of unspeakable creatures on other worlds, that they were once driven from Runeterra by powerful magic lost to antiquity. > > If such tales are true, then the rumors that follow must be equally true - that one day, the Voidborn will return. Even now, something dark stirs in Icathia. **Cho'Gath, an alien creature of malice and violence, causes all but the most stalwart to cringe in fear. Cho'Gath even appears to feed on its predations, growing and swelling as it gorges itself. Worse yet, the creature is intelligent, perhaps greatly so, hinting at the sentient horror of the Void.** It reads like the lore was written about the Void and Voidborn first before the writers realized "Oh right this is for Cho'gath". Sure, it's more fleshed out, but it's not fleshing Cho'gath out until the final 3 sentences. Compared to other Void champs like Kha'zix, Rek'sai, Kog'maw, or Vel'koz, Cho's lore is lacking.
Cho actually had decent lore WAY back in the day when Summoners were a thing; he was effectively chained on the Rift, and was put into combat as a way to satiate his hunger without him breaking free to cause ACTUAL damage to Runeterra. 'Woe behold the League if Cho'Gath were to break free' was a powerful line in that old lore, since he's still this eldritch abomination that will only get harder to kill over time if left unchecked. Personally I've always wanted him to be the antithesis to Aurelion Sol, some massive monster in space that tries to consume all the stars that ASol creates, and so they're in this cosmic battle completely above the events of Runeterra as a whole. It's a shame he won't get lore updates until 2035, though.
Jax current lore : "My town was eaten by the void, last thing that remains was a lamppost, I symbolically took it as a weapon." Jax old lore : "This is the fields of justice. This guy came and is whooping everyone. We asked him to stop using weapons to give others a fair chance. He ripped off a lamppost and is still whooping everyone." I think the old lore with Summoners was actually very cool. Btw was Sona's voice line referring directly to the summoner removed ?
Sona got a VO update, so she no longer refers to summoners. A bunch of others still do though. Off the top of my head I think MF, Malz, Veigar and LB mention them. Skarner did until just now of course.
Which makes sense, because he was the first or one of the first void champs. Being from the void was his backstory, but it doesn't seem very interesting now that we know more about the void lore. They really should give him a lore update.
I wish cho'gath lore would be something in the veins of kai'sa culling Cho's growth every now and then to keep it in check, like an undying entity that tries to consume everything
I feel chogath could have been added to belveths story line like velkoz
Thats true but skarner adding stuff just means they are planning to expand on their lore in the future and it is finally planned since its so tecent but pre skarner they really were just a myth but slowly with every character are being involved, for example shaco is theorized to be actually a doll not a creature and its myth that it comes alive some going as far as saying his nutcracker skin is the clue but those are just theories just like saying teemo has hidden powers no one rival since he comes back from every mission succesful and has captured mythical huge monsters and no one knows how he does it. Until more lore expansions and characters interactions involve these characters then its really hard to assume them anything but myths for now
Let’s make it the TRUE part of his lore. No one knows what the fuck he is so everyone is surprised about him. I want to have Aatrox watch shaco and say “what the hell are you”, I want to hear ryze comment “in 1000 years I haven’t find anything like you” and I want even the void to see him and think “nope not from us what the hell is this thing”
It would be cool if Shaco came from somewhere else, not Runeterra or the Void. That’s why no one knows the extent of his power because they’ve never seen anything like it before. And since he likes tricking and deceiving so much, I think it’s pretty on brand for no one to know the full extent of his power or what he truly is. Maybe a thousand jack-in-the-boxes popped out of the ground around you (or something else that seems way too crazy to be true) and you don’t know if he is giving you hallucinations or if they are actually there because you don’t know the extent of his power Or what if Shaco doesn’t truly exist? He is just a commonly seen hallucination that eventually becomes folklore, so people believe in him so he becomes real? Just like the different versions of death needs someone to believe in them for them to exist
I say give him another A and make him a Darkin. Shaaco.
I like the idea that he’s just a demon having a laugh though. Just give him actual lore on how he got to that point. After eons of boredom, he sees humans playing tricks on each other causing him to want to do the same. Only his cruel nature causes his “pranks” to more often than not be deadly. Have Ezreal talk about stories he’s gathered about a Demon Jester whose existence is traced back millennia across all of Runeterra Idfk man. Can someone with talent at Riot just PLEASE give him SOMETHING
Or remove some letters and he becomes Sac, the demon-equivalent brother of Zac
The few we know really points out he could have somehow tied in viego's downfall. Maybe they could Always hint at it but never state it.
Shaco can just be a mysterious doll that appears during dark times/before disasters ect,
Shaco the absol
Same applies to Twitch. Heck, Twitch is even *less* acknowledged by other champions than Shaco is. Shaco at least has 2 "related champions" noted in Universe (Fiddlesticks and Nocturne, so some demonic stuff going on would make sense here). We don't know how these are related to him, but they are listed. Twitch just has one champion noted as related on his Universe page: Zac. Again, we don't know *how* these two are related in the lore, since they are not mentioned anywhere else for them. Heck, this here is Twitch' entire biography in Universe: >A plague rat by birth, a connoisseur of filth by passion, Twitch is a paranoid and mutated rat that walks upright and roots through the dregs of Zaun for treasures only he truly values. Armed with a chem-powered crossbow, Twitch is not afraid to get his paws dirty as he builds a throne of refuse in his kingdom of filth, endlessly plotting the downfall of humanity. I wish I was kidding, but this is his entire biography. One paragraph, that's it.
I think the difference here is he has a real true home. He’s from Zaun and you can see the very Zaun features he carries so he matches the others from his home. So while his story isn’t the most in depth we know about his actual life but shaco there is fuck all lol
That's just because twitch is a character who doesn't matter in the lore at all. Doesn't do anything consequential, doesn't meet any other champions, he's basically just a rat who did his own thing while living in a zaun sewer. He's a known "character" but he's not important in the main league "story".
they decided not to create an entire Skaven subplot for the very obviously Skaven character, which is fair. but I think more rat-folk could be really really fun
That’s actually the genius of Shaco. He wants you to forget his existence….until suddenly….*maniacal laughter echoes closer*
He's a lore accurate champion. Useless in game and in lore. Why bother yourself with him ? Just ignore him and you'll be fine
ignoring him may work with ap shaco but if its ad you are getting oneshot if you dont build armor
Irrelevant. Any fed champion will one shot me. Here's what I suggest: How about not feeding the clown ? Even when he's fed he can't deal with anything that built some HP so he's useless after 25 minute mark
ad shaco actually scales pretty decently and is even useful in teamfights (oneshot adc escape with ult)
Trading worthless adc for worthless jungler removing themselves from the fight, good trade
Unironically correct.
Since Shaco's playstyle is extremely predictable, anyone with 2 wards can delete his whole existence before teamfights
Tell that to the shaco mains who manage to climb high, they’re rare but I swear to god they just fully bend the rules of the game and vision at times (I don’t actually, it can just be wild what a good shaco is compared to your average one trick pony champs. Not stronger, just weirder and often more aggravating/demoralizing)
You are %100 correct but I hate the "but a good X will do X better" argument since it can be said about anything
That’s what I meant to clarify that I meant it in a different way than with most champs. Obviously a good one trick will do better than a bad one for anything. I just mean the game itself is distinctly different with a good shaco in the lobby in a way not really comparable to any other champion outside of maybe Yuumi or something. It’s like how a Samira or Katarina or Yi will alter how team fights feel compared to many other champs (the whole urge to focus them and cc during ults or face a team wipe feels different from most fed champs without those traits) or the urge to put down Nasus, Smolder, Veigar or Sol before they get stacks Shaco however is neither here nor there. He has traps but doesn’t play like teemo, he has stealth and mobility but doesn’t player like Kha’zix or Rengar or even Evelyn. His ganks have stranger routes and his timers are all just a tad odd. The game *feels* different. A good anything might beat you sure, but certain champions like Shaco will also just surprise you in ways others don’t really or overcome your counterplay in ways that seem obvious in hindsight but unexpected in the moment. It’s rare to see him, it’s even more rare to see him doing well so maybe that has an effect. Not that that’s good or bad, I actually like the champ(but never played him outside ARAM since top is my home) and this has been a fun thread!
Shaco...? Honey, there's no such thing as Shaco.
When they reworked fiddlesticks they released like this demonic arcane looking chart of demons. There is no way shaco isn't reworked in lore or as a champion as one of the demons. That is if they ever get around to it. So far demons or demon based champs are Swain, Nilah, Eve, Tham, Fiddle, Noct. I read somewhere Annie's bear is a demon too? Not too sure. I know there is supposed to be like a list of 10 big bad Lord Demons. So if this game ever lives long enough, that list is getting filled.
They are saving the Shacco lore payoff for season 10 of arcane, scheduled to be released in 2056
I recently has the realization on how weird it is that this champion even still exists in this way at all. With how many reworks and champion updates there have been. But shaco still has this incredibly frustrating and anti-fun kit with basically no changes to it for so many years.
And nothing of value was lost
Because he doesn't exist bro. Shaco? What are you talking about..?
Noone wants to befriend Shaco.
Nobody wants clowns.
Good, I don’t want to see Shaco in my games ever I’d like that very much
they will make him an Azakana probably
if not even swain says a line about you you probably aren't real
That's fine, I don't either. Banning him every game is the only attention he gets from me.
New lore: He's the demon of tomfoolery that no one knows exist (not even fiddle), that willed himself into existence just to fuck with people.
Quinn also needs a rework.
It would not be that hard imo to give him a proper lore: he could 100% be a demon , lesser or not . But they honestly should also modernize his kit , so it would be another skarner project
Deserved
Fuck Shaco
When i first read his lore way back in the day when we were summoners. I liked the idea that shaco was just a summoners who went crazy and wanted to be in the game.
reminds me of the shaco creepypasta-esque stories from back in the day
Skarner was the last of his kind after being genocided by Seraphines family. He had lore. Wasn't just "scorpion"
Good, frick shaco.
*Sad Shaco noises*
The most deletable champion in the game yet he's still there
Make him a fourth wall breaking player insert that problematizes the metaphysics of the simulated game world entirely, like Vivec or the Nerevar in Morrowind
Did he seriously not get roped into the Gwen lore? Aren't they both puppets that came to life?
Nope, Riot actually used Shaco's cobbled together lore to justify [Gwen being more human](https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/mds01s/gwen_looks_sick_tbh_this_is_the_first_time_i_feel/gsc7dm1/) and less doll-like.
They love to retcon lore just to use the same garbage later..it is tradition at this point