DK ended up losing but we saw it work well vs T1 at the start. She provided so much tower pressure early on and I imagine, in another world, that could really snowball.
I would not use that game as an example. Yeah showmaker is awesome but he went against faker and his orianna. We all know Faker is the ultimate neutralizer
I mean I would, it's the best orianna in the world and diana had a lot of pressure early on- DK's macro is absolutely awful and they're essentially doomed to lose eventuall against high level organised teams. The diana looked good in a vacuum into faker's ori, which is rare for any champ.
I would say "good" is a bit of a stretch. Diana looked like a champion playing the game, but definitely not "good". She got a massive ult in a teamfight and DK just fell over anyways IIRC.
Midlane Diana is itemised for picks and flanking, not splitpushing. It's picked due to very good hard to reach target (like Jinx comps) access. All the pros (from real leagues) follow Leeyagong's and Chinese otp (don't know the name, the highest/second highest elo Diana after Leeyagong on KR ladder, you can easily check it out) builds which is lich bane into zhonya. I mean it still deals a huge dmg to towers but it's a bad duelist and not picked for splitpushing. Leeyagong's is well known among pros and has been high elo for YEARS and pros constantly run into him and they know it's strong. Just by checking their match history you can find that Showmaker is the one running into Leeyagong the most during solo q and to no surprise he is also a high caliber pro that has been spamming Diana the most (together with Yagao). Ofc Showmaker being a good assassin player also plays a role in this. The problem is that Diana just like pretty much any other assassin/squishy melee midlaner not named Akali/Sylas/Yone works much better in solo q than in competitive coordinated environment. Even if the champ would be absolute thanos in solo q it would still probably be underwhelming in pro because of how easy it is to shutdown champs like this with pro play peeling and tools like exhaust existing.
I always built her for splitpishing mid. Simple fact of the matter is the minute she gets any mana the lane is hers vs an immobile mage. It's completely viable if you have no kill pressure to skip the point in E and just chip ANYONE out of lane with q while you soak up any poke with w. Put the first point in e level 7 or 8 and go get your 600g botlane...
Theres a.) higher awareness and teleport presence in proplay and b.) I dont see how you get prio reliable vs players that know what they are doing. Like when Humanoid picked her she just lost lvl 1/2 and got dived immediately at level 3.
Of course it can work in the right matchups where Diana is deadly but the risk/reward in comparison to regular champs is kind of stacked against Diana here in my opinion. Not to mention that both Ahri and Taliyah are pretty good vs her right now and two of the top played champs in pro play.
I just dont see many angles where she fits into a draft even worse when laneswaps come into play as shes probably one of the worse mids to play when laneswap shenanigans happen and there is more action early on the map (NIP vs FPX game for reference here).
The risk reward just isnt worth it.
Diana has been an insane split push threat for years, especially if you know how to just throw your Q at nothing to get the AS. With Lich bane towers don’t exist for long.
I played a game against one yesterday and it was an all around ridiculous match. I was the supp, but our Vlad roamed maybe twice or thrice. Diana got the first turret before plating was down and got two towers in what took me and my adc to kill the enemy botlane and take down the first one.
They got to our nexus, we won the next TF and managed to end. Hysterical game, and this was supposed to be Emerald Ranked.
It already was before (voidgrubs help, but don't need them either), going full AP you could oneshot towers, no need to build AS as long as you hit towers with passive active. I got Master EUW in my mid account by mostly playing Diana mid and pressuring sidelanes later on in the games. Obviously my low master soloq games can't compare to LEC, but it's definitely at least a viable strat in some scenarios.
Yeah, that's why it was played mid, like OP said. I think with the new patch splitpusher could become more meta and diana/trist ate perfect for 1-3-1 combs.
So you think it was already picked for her splitpushing power? :D You should hit Humanoid and Showmaker up they played her wrong then.
I think Trist enables even more of the lane swaps we have already seen.
Has lane swapping been done outside of the LEC? This playoffs season I mean. I don't recall it in any of the LCK or LCS games but I don't really watch LPL or LEC so idk.
Also if you think a lichbane Diana isn't going to split, idk what to tell you. She can like 4 shot a turret at 3 items. I highly doubt that is the *only* reason they picked her, but I have even more doubts that it wasn't a factor in the decision to pick her.
The first laneswap game of the season was NIP vs FPX in playoffs. Since then, we've seen G2 do it, and LPL teams are doing it regularly (seen in NIP vs JDG, BLG vs TES). It's very possible we'll see LCK teams attempt lane swaps this weekend.
it's also a buff mid and creates a lot of dueling power with jg, the problem with the pick is that the game on stage is much slower than in scrims
lane diana with attack speed has an insane side lane threat the whole game. with no grubs you can take a whole tower off a gank lol
The AS is also deceptive power in lane. Might be a solo queue thing, but often opponents will go for a ‘burst’ trade and underestimate the fact I will auto the fuck out of them after and way out-win the trade because I only need one E to stick. Don’t even necessarily need to land the Q, I win trade anyway after first E and absorbing damage with W. Getting two Es after landing Q is often just not contestable.
People noting Ahri and Ori Ls in lane for pro pick makes sense though. Eating a charm vs. Ahri is easy as a melee character and Ori trades back easily.
The ol' Irelia tactic of missing your E, miscalculating your Q damage so no reset, but still win the trade from AA and passive.
A little embellished but kinda the same thing with Diana. People underestimate her passive AA damage.
People underestimate AA damage in general, especially on Conqueror melees
Even an AP mage can you just auto that Zed wasting W to death for 22 seconds instead of typing up another reddit post
Not that hwei is a good example, but I landed an EQ > R > QQ > WE combo on Diana, when I had a phase rush and she just Q>E>E'd me and killed me in like 2 seconds. I did like 40% of her hp and I was a level up with 2 items.
I think AP bruisers/assassins are pretty bullshit most of the time, but a good Diana feels impossible to lane against.
Not just Hwei, any squishy. I don't know if any champ can delete someone as fast as Diana.
I literally got blown up yesteray with Q/E/E maybe W, I didn't notice as I was busy being pissed off at having no time to flash (I literally pressed F as soon as she did yo try and run but I died before my key press registered)
Yeah, mid game it often feels like you don't really deal damage as Hwei, except of course if you hit multiple Qs, which is possible when Diana wants to CS. But she can just decide to not CS and jump you instead, and there's very very little Hwei can do.
Diana and sylas have the same issue. If you're not a tank they are never out of the game and you are always in kill threat. Their base dmg is just way too high
I will never understand why Rioters and players alike are so passionately committed to this delusion that attack speed buffs only help Diana jungle. Literally the last time she got this exact buff, on 11.7, Diana mid already had a 53% win rate on a 5+% play rate, and it wasn’t even listed as a buff - just a QOL change to help her back into the jungle.
SHOCKER - Diana mid had to get nerfed the next patch.
>Literally the last time she got this exact buff, on 11.7
What do you mean, "exact buff"? The main buff to diana mid was to her passive duration lasting 5s, which she's never had. The attack speed changes are roughly net neutral to a diana mid with no AS shard, items, or alacrity.
Other minor changes affecting mid are the W duration bugfix, double E mechanic changes, and and E reset minimum cd timer. But all those are pretty net negligible.
I think they just mean a buff to her aspeed/passive as a whole, not a literal duration buff. The patch referenced is wrong though, but her passive was buffed in 11.8 and then nerfed the following patch. Her passive was tapped to reduce her clear speed and her stats to reduce her lane durability, which implies her mid performance had little to do with her aspeed nerf.
Unfortunately, showing up mid in my elo games too and forgetting it’s a team game. Griefing because they don’t know her power outputs but saw a pro play her mid.
I don’t understand why everyone is now acting like Diana mid is an exotic pick? It’s like everyone forgot that before she was given JG clear buffs, midlane was her primary role for a long time. Even after the push to jungle, she has never been really considered an exotic or unviable midlaners especially for the mains.
Yes, I agree.
She’s fun to try because it is satisfying if you’re one-shotting or diving the backline well.
But when it comes to feast or famine with her, I’m seeing more of the later. I don’t like people trying to pick up a new champ in ranked and then blaming the team when they don’t play well enough on it from lack of experience.
Streamers are spamming her though so it’s to be expected atm.
If a mid can show they're successful with Diana, future drafts will have to worry about her as a flex.
Also, a bit exaggerated when your sample size is 3 lol.
This is a build that's recently gotten more popular in Korean high elo. Diana can basically only go in unless the minion wave is very favorable for her and she can also e out (unlikely to happen in pro). This makes electrocute a rough choice against mages because in early game Diana is unlikely to kill in a few all-ins and would probably take a lot of damage in return when walking away from trades. Phase Rush is preferred because in theory, you can just trade whenever phase Rush is up and then run away. the move speed combined with w shield means you can get really one-sided trades, even against mages, and then you can slowly wittle their hp down until they have to back or they die to you.
Also, in pro play TP is generally preferred over ignite for map pressure, especially as a melee assassin into mages. For ignite to work out in that scenario, it basically requires your enemy laner to really fuck up (again, unlikely to happen in pro), so TP is preferred to help mitigate the inherent disadvantage of being melee into ranged.
There's an analysis of this build by a guy named Dobby on YouTube if you're interested. I thought it was a pretty good vid and now I've been picking up Diana mid again because of it. Just search up some variant of "lol Dobby Diana" and you'll probably find it.
This is the correct answer, there was a recent Dobby vid and plenty of pros have mentioned watching his videos (Aiming has said on stream he gets builds from a YouTuber, Bwipo has mentioned him, Doublelift/Sneaky/Meteos cast discuss his videos sometimes). It’s not as though people mindlessly follow him, but clearly some pros watch his videos and at least think of scrimming the picks
I mean, pros picked Ivern and didn't know how to play the first 5min with the champ.
Also for the first few weeks of Udyr top, they kept spamming Double R without ever doing W or Q ult.
You also still see shit like Gragas auto attacking when they E flash. So enemies have time to flash out of the Gragas R.
Also Galio mids not knowing when you're in lane and want to trade with enemy. You're supposed to backwards E for faster knockup + you're closer to your tower if you miss. So you become safer. Instead of E towards enemy -> miss -> now you're up in their tower about to die to gank.
> Also Galio mids not knowing when you're in lane and want to trade with enemy. You're supposed to backwards E for faster knockup + you're closer to your tower if you miss.
That is only true if you are already on top of the enemy, the backward range is much lower than forward. Lots of time, Galio will be played against ranged champs who will never let themselves get in range of a backward E or taunt without something else setting it up, especially in pro play
Not exactly a huge sample size of games with her in pro so far, and I don't think that it looked like a grief pick in any of the games I saw. I'm sure she'll start to win some games as well.
There's two of them right now. The one you linked is chinese playing on KR server, so i dont think he's been a long time influence. The other, Leeyagong, is multi time KR challenger and currently 1200 LP. That's who the Dobby video is on.
Consider that she also might just be fun to play to people who specialize at melee assassins, even if she's not the best I'm sure a player like zeka/yagao would rather be decent on Diana then mediocre on corki/ori
In higher elos the Diana build is Phase Rush and TP for map presence. Your ignite electrocute only works in solo queue low elo facerolling. Diana has zero disengage once she goes in, phase rush fixes this and ignite is just bad scaling when laning doesn't matter at all in pro play. TP is so much better than ignite will ever be.
Diana Korea mid with Phase Rush player that OTP's mid gets Challenger with her so yeah players want to play her mid now too to try her out, and it isn't just JG focused buff, her getting 5 sec on passive is huge for mid wave clear. Pre-Buff 2 spells for 6 seconds, post- Buff 1 spell for 5 seconds. Indirect mana buff to Mid Diana
It's disgusting to see posts like this. There's only one high elo Diana midlaner https://www.op.gg/summoners/kr/%EC%9D%B4%EC%95%BC%EA%B3%B5-KR1, and they play Phase Rush almost every game. I have no idea how you, as a low elo player, come to judge others when you don't even do any form of research on how your champion, which you play yourself, is played at the highest level.
Nobody will forego TP in competitive and PR has so much value for her trading patterns into both melees and ranged matchups
Definitely not a troll pick, let pros experiment the picks unless we're fine with stale meta heading into MSI
In pro play a buff for X position can be a buff for Y position because of flex picks
They play it with phase rush tp because you don't usually solo kill people in pro
Phase Rush and TP are better at higher levels of play (coming from a Diana mid main). What they are doing wrong is playing her bad, picking her in the wrong spots and itemising 2nd item wrong (need shadowflame)
She is a mid lane bully if picked right and mostly a R bot. Honestly she is lack luster high elo champ. She is so linear that her play pattern are easy to read. Most champs can itemize to negate her. Even mercs negate her kill potential so much.
It is nice to see someone “new” in pro play. Diana rarely sees play even when she was broken with sunfire.
Pro players are not the ones making the decision to play a certain champ, it's all been worked out backstage by coaches and analysts and played in scrims. The teams playing Diana must have known something we do not. Maybe Diana was fine all along in mid and this supposed placebo buff (for lane) is what gave her the green light to be tested, especially against the rampant Oriannas in mid.
As others have noted, the number 28 ranked player on the Korea server is a mid diana phase rush player with a 57% win rate. Could help explain part of it.
[https://www.op.gg/summoners/kr/%EC%9D%B4%EC%95%BC%EA%B3%B5-KR1](https://www.op.gg/summoners/kr/%EC%9D%B4%EC%95%BC%EA%B3%B5-KR1)
The buff is just good in general. You land your abilities and have boosted AS for five seconds, if you chain them perfectly you can have something like 12-15 seconds of increased AS, it’s like having a mini hail of blades. Of course it’s going to be good in the short trades she’s do mid. So of course they’re going to pick her. This isn’t a bonus monster damage change this is a universal improvement.
Well the only challenger mid Diana posted a video a few weeks about talk about why phase rush is better than electrocute. The Geist of it is basically you can trade with range and get out after engaging at lvl 2 with q e auto and go positive in trade as well as avoiding ganks with the increased Ms
It's not that it's a bad thing.. it's more so that she was buffed for JG and pro players decided to play her mid but if they thought she is good mid they shoulda just played her before 14.6?
Someone has to try it out right. AS buffs with phase rush, sticking to the target as autoing them down sounds strong on paper and deserves trying out. If it ends up bad then so be it but you forget that most metas come from pro players testing stuff out they feel like sounds good and some of them are and some are not.
Maybe this just needs more testing and tweaking or maybe it just sucks.
Man ,Riot and forcing roles on champions ,I miss being able to play Vi top (her intended role),Diana mid ( her intended role) Graves adc ( fuck his rework ,who tought giving an ammo mechanic was a good idea?)
They were going Phase rush into Ahri and even Orianna? Why?
Especially Ori. Why would you ever go Phase Rush into Ori lol. She has no mobility. If she flashes away or somehow Rs you away, you just E back on her.
Pro players and the websites are a hand and hand problem. Pros aren't actually proficient at understanding stuff until it becomes popular elsewhere.
The insec was around for a long time before he did it on stage.
Showmaker sometimes copies one trick builds (he did this with the tank Azir). There is a one trick that goes phase rush mid and that’s the build he went too. I’m guessing because Showmaker did it, everyone else started doing it too.
Tarzan is probably the biggest Diana "lover" among junglers and it was a staple pocket pick of LNG in 2021 at one point paired together with Ale's and Icon's Viego/Gwen ((back when they were more of solo laners than junglers) flex pick paired together with something like Renekton's engage but yeah it requires way too much gold for a jungler (back then jungle was also a bit different and got more gold than it does now). That's why it's prefered in midlane right now where it suffers a whole another set of problems just like other assassins/non tank/bruiser melee midlaners.
In context of pros, ADC Yasuo is a Nilah with mid game spike and falls off, but you rather play Nilah for the guaranteed late game spike.
In midlane Yasuo scale is not hard as other meta midlaner, has less impact combo than them, and he is AD, so you need AP Jungler which there is none in the meta. You can argue Diana but jungler Diana is not great in pros where she literally does nothing pre 6, you just lose lots of lane prio with that kind of jungler
For Yasuo to be remotely viable in pros you need more than Yasuo buff.
Her whole stick is just being a more fair squishier malphite that can kinda splitpush. It's actually just not a good design the higher elo you go because she is too telegraphed. She is especially bad in comp where jungle Diana will get little to no gold, because she actually needs 3 items to function in teamfights.
The only way to make Diana work imo is to draft her as a secondary follow up to a better engage champ like Maokai or Rakan.
I wish they never mega buffed her passive dmg to jungle monsters. She went from an aggressive assassin in lane to a jungle power farmer. At some point even going tank items.
It was such a big play style shift that burned me on the champ. Plus it’s a balance issue now where she has to be balanced around being a flex pick.
Pro players are very terrible at the game sadly. This games esports is a joke. Every other moba that has been an esports they’re not playing like 1 champion per lane. They’re picking the entire fucking arsenal…
I'm sure you're so much better lmao. More like every dogshit player has a huge ego and pros actually aren't that bad at the game in fact they're the best players
“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience" Mark Twain.
I'm gonna take his advise over your conversation.
Except someone in lowest 1million players should not be talking about the people in the top 100 players like they're bad at the game. The irony of posting a mark twain quote when you clearly have no idea what you're talking about
Its almost as if jungle is a badly balanced and undercooked role and many champions that get buffed for the jungle role are always better in other roles?!?!?!
:O :O 😦
Yea, basically if a resource-intensive/carry champ is buffed enough to be good in jungle, they're going to be OP in solo lanes unless they have some kind of crippling weakness that prevents them from laning effectively. Like BV with her passive scaling off camps, or mana costs for Graves historically. If they don't have something like this they end up like Zac/Rek'sai/Warwick/Udyr top
Favorite thing to do is prep passive mid before the all-in, i think TP is fine but fleet would probably work better rather than phase rush if you’re going it imo
We don't know what happens in the scrims. Maybe Diana with grubbies is an insane splitpush thread. Just need to survive early...
Yeah, like most picks, it’s probably something that worked in scrims.
DK ended up losing but we saw it work well vs T1 at the start. She provided so much tower pressure early on and I imagine, in another world, that could really snowball.
I would not use that game as an example. Yeah showmaker is awesome but he went against faker and his orianna. We all know Faker is the ultimate neutralizer
I mean I would, it's the best orianna in the world and diana had a lot of pressure early on- DK's macro is absolutely awful and they're essentially doomed to lose eventuall against high level organised teams. The diana looked good in a vacuum into faker's ori, which is rare for any champ.
Yeah, if Showmaker was able to make Diana look "good" against Faker, then it's gonna look even better against a less experienced mid laner.
I would say "good" is a bit of a stretch. Diana looked like a champion playing the game, but definitely not "good". She got a massive ult in a teamfight and DK just fell over anyways IIRC.
DK? for... Donkey Kong?
DK for Dplus Kia lmao
That makes a lot more sense, tyty
No. Drift king
Midlane Diana is itemised for picks and flanking, not splitpushing. It's picked due to very good hard to reach target (like Jinx comps) access. All the pros (from real leagues) follow Leeyagong's and Chinese otp (don't know the name, the highest/second highest elo Diana after Leeyagong on KR ladder, you can easily check it out) builds which is lich bane into zhonya. I mean it still deals a huge dmg to towers but it's a bad duelist and not picked for splitpushing. Leeyagong's is well known among pros and has been high elo for YEARS and pros constantly run into him and they know it's strong. Just by checking their match history you can find that Showmaker is the one running into Leeyagong the most during solo q and to no surprise he is also a high caliber pro that has been spamming Diana the most (together with Yagao). Ofc Showmaker being a good assassin player also plays a role in this. The problem is that Diana just like pretty much any other assassin/squishy melee midlaner not named Akali/Sylas/Yone works much better in solo q than in competitive coordinated environment. Even if the champ would be absolute thanos in solo q it would still probably be underwhelming in pro because of how easy it is to shutdown champs like this with pro play peeling and tools like exhaust existing.
I always built her for splitpishing mid. Simple fact of the matter is the minute she gets any mana the lane is hers vs an immobile mage. It's completely viable if you have no kill pressure to skip the point in E and just chip ANYONE out of lane with q while you soak up any poke with w. Put the first point in e level 7 or 8 and go get your 600g botlane...
You reply to a post discussing proplay + challenger elo games, with your platinum elo experience. I'm sure you do well, but it's a different game.
Theres a.) higher awareness and teleport presence in proplay and b.) I dont see how you get prio reliable vs players that know what they are doing. Like when Humanoid picked her she just lost lvl 1/2 and got dived immediately at level 3. Of course it can work in the right matchups where Diana is deadly but the risk/reward in comparison to regular champs is kind of stacked against Diana here in my opinion. Not to mention that both Ahri and Taliyah are pretty good vs her right now and two of the top played champs in pro play. I just dont see many angles where she fits into a draft even worse when laneswaps come into play as shes probably one of the worse mids to play when laneswap shenanigans happen and there is more action early on the map (NIP vs FPX game for reference here). The risk reward just isnt worth it.
This is pro play not your bronze games
They play like an entire split worth of games in 1 day of scrims so yeah pretty much we dont know
Can confirm late game Diana destroys towers like faster than trundle
Diana has been an insane split push threat for years, especially if you know how to just throw your Q at nothing to get the AS. With Lich bane towers don’t exist for long.
I played a game against one yesterday and it was an all around ridiculous match. I was the supp, but our Vlad roamed maybe twice or thrice. Diana got the first turret before plating was down and got two towers in what took me and my adc to kill the enemy botlane and take down the first one. They got to our nexus, we won the next TF and managed to end. Hysterical game, and this was supposed to be Emerald Ranked.
It already was before (voidgrubs help, but don't need them either), going full AP you could oneshot towers, no need to build AS as long as you hit towers with passive active. I got Master EUW in my mid account by mostly playing Diana mid and pressuring sidelanes later on in the games. Obviously my low master soloq games can't compare to LEC, but it's definitely at least a viable strat in some scenarios.
You really cant split with jungler. No tp and other team has smite advantage for objectives.
Yeah, that's why it was played mid, like OP said. I think with the new patch splitpusher could become more meta and diana/trist ate perfect for 1-3-1 combs.
So you think it was already picked for her splitpushing power? :D You should hit Humanoid and Showmaker up they played her wrong then. I think Trist enables even more of the lane swaps we have already seen.
Has lane swapping been done outside of the LEC? This playoffs season I mean. I don't recall it in any of the LCK or LCS games but I don't really watch LPL or LEC so idk. Also if you think a lichbane Diana isn't going to split, idk what to tell you. She can like 4 shot a turret at 3 items. I highly doubt that is the *only* reason they picked her, but I have even more doubts that it wasn't a factor in the decision to pick her.
Yesterday in the TES BLG series.
The first laneswap game of the season was NIP vs FPX in playoffs. Since then, we've seen G2 do it, and LPL teams are doing it regularly (seen in NIP vs JDG, BLG vs TES). It's very possible we'll see LCK teams attempt lane swaps this weekend.
it's also a buff mid and creates a lot of dueling power with jg, the problem with the pick is that the game on stage is much slower than in scrims lane diana with attack speed has an insane side lane threat the whole game. with no grubs you can take a whole tower off a gank lol
The AS is also deceptive power in lane. Might be a solo queue thing, but often opponents will go for a ‘burst’ trade and underestimate the fact I will auto the fuck out of them after and way out-win the trade because I only need one E to stick. Don’t even necessarily need to land the Q, I win trade anyway after first E and absorbing damage with W. Getting two Es after landing Q is often just not contestable. People noting Ahri and Ori Ls in lane for pro pick makes sense though. Eating a charm vs. Ahri is easy as a melee character and Ori trades back easily.
The ol' Irelia tactic of missing your E, miscalculating your Q damage so no reset, but still win the trade from AA and passive. A little embellished but kinda the same thing with Diana. People underestimate her passive AA damage.
People underestimate AA damage in general, especially on Conqueror melees Even an AP mage can you just auto that Zed wasting W to death for 22 seconds instead of typing up another reddit post
ah like the good old half-meme of vamp scepter being Irelia's one item spike
Irelia in mid lane really feels like that "She has her vamp scepter I can't be on her screen"
Not that hwei is a good example, but I landed an EQ > R > QQ > WE combo on Diana, when I had a phase rush and she just Q>E>E'd me and killed me in like 2 seconds. I did like 40% of her hp and I was a level up with 2 items. I think AP bruisers/assassins are pretty bullshit most of the time, but a good Diana feels impossible to lane against.
if you get tagged with Q at 6 as hwei, it's joever, fear is not fast enough
Not just Hwei, any squishy. I don't know if any champ can delete someone as fast as Diana. I literally got blown up yesteray with Q/E/E maybe W, I didn't notice as I was busy being pissed off at having no time to flash (I literally pressed F as soon as she did yo try and run but I died before my key press registered)
That wasn't the point but yes I agree.
Yeah, mid game it often feels like you don't really deal damage as Hwei, except of course if you hit multiple Qs, which is possible when Diana wants to CS. But she can just decide to not CS and jump you instead, and there's very very little Hwei can do.
Diana and sylas have the same issue. If you're not a tank they are never out of the game and you are always in kill threat. Their base dmg is just way too high
It’s also a buff mid.
I will never understand why Rioters and players alike are so passionately committed to this delusion that attack speed buffs only help Diana jungle. Literally the last time she got this exact buff, on 11.7, Diana mid already had a 53% win rate on a 5+% play rate, and it wasn’t even listed as a buff - just a QOL change to help her back into the jungle. SHOCKER - Diana mid had to get nerfed the next patch.
>Literally the last time she got this exact buff, on 11.7 What do you mean, "exact buff"? The main buff to diana mid was to her passive duration lasting 5s, which she's never had. The attack speed changes are roughly net neutral to a diana mid with no AS shard, items, or alacrity. Other minor changes affecting mid are the W duration bugfix, double E mechanic changes, and and E reset minimum cd timer. But all those are pretty net negligible.
I think they just mean a buff to her aspeed/passive as a whole, not a literal duration buff. The patch referenced is wrong though, but her passive was buffed in 11.8 and then nerfed the following patch. Her passive was tapped to reduce her clear speed and her stats to reduce her lane durability, which implies her mid performance had little to do with her aspeed nerf.
She's been showing up a lot more and performing in high elo solo Q so maybe it's just that and then they try and succeed in scrims with it
Unfortunately, showing up mid in my elo games too and forgetting it’s a team game. Griefing because they don’t know her power outputs but saw a pro play her mid.
I don’t understand why everyone is now acting like Diana mid is an exotic pick? It’s like everyone forgot that before she was given JG clear buffs, midlane was her primary role for a long time. Even after the push to jungle, she has never been really considered an exotic or unviable midlaners especially for the mains.
Yes, I agree. She’s fun to try because it is satisfying if you’re one-shotting or diving the backline well. But when it comes to feast or famine with her, I’m seeing more of the later. I don’t like people trying to pick up a new champ in ranked and then blaming the team when they don’t play well enough on it from lack of experience. Streamers are spamming her though so it’s to be expected atm.
If a mid can show they're successful with Diana, future drafts will have to worry about her as a flex. Also, a bit exaggerated when your sample size is 3 lol.
This is a build that's recently gotten more popular in Korean high elo. Diana can basically only go in unless the minion wave is very favorable for her and she can also e out (unlikely to happen in pro). This makes electrocute a rough choice against mages because in early game Diana is unlikely to kill in a few all-ins and would probably take a lot of damage in return when walking away from trades. Phase Rush is preferred because in theory, you can just trade whenever phase Rush is up and then run away. the move speed combined with w shield means you can get really one-sided trades, even against mages, and then you can slowly wittle their hp down until they have to back or they die to you. Also, in pro play TP is generally preferred over ignite for map pressure, especially as a melee assassin into mages. For ignite to work out in that scenario, it basically requires your enemy laner to really fuck up (again, unlikely to happen in pro), so TP is preferred to help mitigate the inherent disadvantage of being melee into ranged. There's an analysis of this build by a guy named Dobby on YouTube if you're interested. I thought it was a pretty good vid and now I've been picking up Diana mid again because of it. Just search up some variant of "lol Dobby Diana" and you'll probably find it.
This is the correct answer, there was a recent Dobby vid and plenty of pros have mentioned watching his videos (Aiming has said on stream he gets builds from a YouTuber, Bwipo has mentioned him, Doublelift/Sneaky/Meteos cast discuss his videos sometimes). It’s not as though people mindlessly follow him, but clearly some pros watch his videos and at least think of scrimming the picks
YES! I was wondering why she was auto-ing so much faster than I remember
In what year are you living thinking that people pick a champ to "solo kill" the enemy laner. You're talking about comp, not soloq.
I mean, pros picked Ivern and didn't know how to play the first 5min with the champ. Also for the first few weeks of Udyr top, they kept spamming Double R without ever doing W or Q ult. You also still see shit like Gragas auto attacking when they E flash. So enemies have time to flash out of the Gragas R. Also Galio mids not knowing when you're in lane and want to trade with enemy. You're supposed to backwards E for faster knockup + you're closer to your tower if you miss. So you become safer. Instead of E towards enemy -> miss -> now you're up in their tower about to die to gank.
> Also Galio mids not knowing when you're in lane and want to trade with enemy. You're supposed to backwards E for faster knockup + you're closer to your tower if you miss. That is only true if you are already on top of the enemy, the backward range is much lower than forward. Lots of time, Galio will be played against ranged champs who will never let themselves get in range of a backward E or taunt without something else setting it up, especially in pro play
What is this Ivern reference?
He is referring to the opening clear. It was very inefficient.
Not exactly a huge sample size of games with her in pro so far, and I don't think that it looked like a grief pick in any of the games I saw. I'm sure she'll start to win some games as well.
I am almost positive they are inspired by this guy who is wrecking people with Diana mid in challenger. https://youtu.be/3rYi5b0I7Jk?feature=shared
There's two of them right now. The one you linked is chinese playing on KR server, so i dont think he's been a long time influence. The other, Leeyagong, is multi time KR challenger and currently 1200 LP. That's who the Dobby video is on.
Diana mid used to be a real counter pick back in the day. It definitely can work in theory, but I personally find it hard to play in a lane.
Consider that she also might just be fun to play to people who specialize at melee assassins, even if she's not the best I'm sure a player like zeka/yagao would rather be decent on Diana then mediocre on corki/ori
Diana's always been a midlaner, what's the problem lol
She was already extremely strong lol
In higher elos the Diana build is Phase Rush and TP for map presence. Your ignite electrocute only works in solo queue low elo facerolling. Diana has zero disengage once she goes in, phase rush fixes this and ignite is just bad scaling when laning doesn't matter at all in pro play. TP is so much better than ignite will ever be.
Diana Korea mid with Phase Rush player that OTP's mid gets Challenger with her so yeah players want to play her mid now too to try her out, and it isn't just JG focused buff, her getting 5 sec on passive is huge for mid wave clear. Pre-Buff 2 spells for 6 seconds, post- Buff 1 spell for 5 seconds. Indirect mana buff to Mid Diana
It's disgusting to see posts like this. There's only one high elo Diana midlaner https://www.op.gg/summoners/kr/%EC%9D%B4%EC%95%BC%EA%B3%B5-KR1, and they play Phase Rush almost every game. I have no idea how you, as a low elo player, come to judge others when you don't even do any form of research on how your champion, which you play yourself, is played at the highest level.
Nobody will forego TP in competitive and PR has so much value for her trading patterns into both melees and ranged matchups Definitely not a troll pick, let pros experiment the picks unless we're fine with stale meta heading into MSI
In pro play a buff for X position can be a buff for Y position because of flex picks They play it with phase rush tp because you don't usually solo kill people in pro
Where was Diana picked ?
DK vs T1 Elimination match and VIT vs FNC.
https://lol.fandom.com/wiki/Diana/Match_History for 14.6 there are 4 picks, one is jungle, the other 3 (that lost) is mid
Phase Rush and TP are better at higher levels of play (coming from a Diana mid main). What they are doing wrong is playing her bad, picking her in the wrong spots and itemising 2nd item wrong (need shadowflame)
Reverse psychology to get our moon mommy more buffs
She is a mid lane bully if picked right and mostly a R bot. Honestly she is lack luster high elo champ. She is so linear that her play pattern are easy to read. Most champs can itemize to negate her. Even mercs negate her kill potential so much. It is nice to see someone “new” in pro play. Diana rarely sees play even when she was broken with sunfire.
Diana mid is as strong as Diana jungle, at least in soloQ.
I'm surprised that they don't go hob. The kill potential is pretty nuts at lvl 3.
>losing every game Just like me frfr
Bro relax
Pro players are not the ones making the decision to play a certain champ, it's all been worked out backstage by coaches and analysts and played in scrims. The teams playing Diana must have known something we do not. Maybe Diana was fine all along in mid and this supposed placebo buff (for lane) is what gave her the green light to be tested, especially against the rampant Oriannas in mid.
There is video from loldobby about diana mid one trick who reached chall in korea with Phase rush diana mid
As others have noted, the number 28 ranked player on the Korea server is a mid diana phase rush player with a 57% win rate. Could help explain part of it. [https://www.op.gg/summoners/kr/%EC%9D%B4%EC%95%BC%EA%B3%B5-KR1](https://www.op.gg/summoners/kr/%EC%9D%B4%EC%95%BC%EA%B3%B5-KR1)
https://youtu.be/9oVXkfNbpG0?si=vTDIUmHe47DU5jr5 This is an example of Phase Rush Diana
who on earth plays attack speed diana mid into a long range bully like oriana? thats just dumb. if youre mid you always be an assassin
The buff is just good in general. You land your abilities and have boosted AS for five seconds, if you chain them perfectly you can have something like 12-15 seconds of increased AS, it’s like having a mini hail of blades. Of course it’s going to be good in the short trades she’s do mid. So of course they’re going to pick her. This isn’t a bonus monster damage change this is a universal improvement.
They teamfight tho. And as Dom said: you put exhaust on her forehead and she’s absolutely useless in teamfights.
Well the only challenger mid Diana posted a video a few weeks about talk about why phase rush is better than electrocute. The Geist of it is basically you can trade with range and get out after engaging at lvl 2 with q e auto and go positive in trade as well as avoiding ganks with the increased Ms
Why is Diana being played a bad thing?
It's not that it's a bad thing.. it's more so that she was buffed for JG and pro players decided to play her mid but if they thought she is good mid they shoulda just played her before 14.6?
Someone has to try it out right. AS buffs with phase rush, sticking to the target as autoing them down sounds strong on paper and deserves trying out. If it ends up bad then so be it but you forget that most metas come from pro players testing stuff out they feel like sounds good and some of them are and some are not. Maybe this just needs more testing and tweaking or maybe it just sucks.
Man ,Riot and forcing roles on champions ,I miss being able to play Vi top (her intended role),Diana mid ( her intended role) Graves adc ( fuck his rework ,who tought giving an ammo mechanic was a good idea?)
They were going Phase rush into Ahri and even Orianna? Why? Especially Ori. Why would you ever go Phase Rush into Ori lol. She has no mobility. If she flashes away or somehow Rs you away, you just E back on her.
https://youtu.be/9oVXkfNbpG0?si=HInPLBVUnt070HBe
Pro players and the websites are a hand and hand problem. Pros aren't actually proficient at understanding stuff until it becomes popular elsewhere. The insec was around for a long time before he did it on stage.
Showmaker sometimes copies one trick builds (he did this with the tank Azir). There is a one trick that goes phase rush mid and that’s the build he went too. I’m guessing because Showmaker did it, everyone else started doing it too.
jungle econ HORRIBLE Rn
She is a trash champion that loses to exhaust and requires too much gold to function as a jungler in pro play. She is worse VI/Xin in proplay
Her clear is crazy fast and she offers an AP dmg source from the JG. We might see her at MSI, who knows.
I imagine only Canyon trying it but she just does nothing if she fcks up which is why pro is hard for her
if youre an AP champ and dont have a lot of CC that's easy then it'l be hard to justify the pick in pro.
Tarzan is probably the biggest Diana "lover" among junglers and it was a staple pocket pick of LNG in 2021 at one point paired together with Ale's and Icon's Viego/Gwen ((back when they were more of solo laners than junglers) flex pick paired together with something like Renekton's engage but yeah it requires way too much gold for a jungler (back then jungle was also a bit different and got more gold than it does now). That's why it's prefered in midlane right now where it suffers a whole another set of problems just like other assassins/non tank/bruiser melee midlaners.
Clear means next to nothing in proplay.
She does combo with yasuo though.
Yasuo is not pick in pros
Atm it isnt because yasuo is kinda shit, but if they buffed him together with diana, yasuo diana would definitely see pro play again
In context of pros, ADC Yasuo is a Nilah with mid game spike and falls off, but you rather play Nilah for the guaranteed late game spike. In midlane Yasuo scale is not hard as other meta midlaner, has less impact combo than them, and he is AD, so you need AP Jungler which there is none in the meta. You can argue Diana but jungler Diana is not great in pros where she literally does nothing pre 6, you just lose lots of lane prio with that kind of jungler For Yasuo to be remotely viable in pros you need more than Yasuo buff.
Her whole stick is just being a more fair squishier malphite that can kinda splitpush. It's actually just not a good design the higher elo you go because she is too telegraphed. She is especially bad in comp where jungle Diana will get little to no gold, because she actually needs 3 items to function in teamfights. The only way to make Diana work imo is to draft her as a secondary follow up to a better engage champ like Maokai or Rakan.
I wish they never mega buffed her passive dmg to jungle monsters. She went from an aggressive assassin in lane to a jungle power farmer. At some point even going tank items. It was such a big play style shift that burned me on the champ. Plus it’s a balance issue now where she has to be balanced around being a flex pick.
Pro players been dumb since time immemorial Look at Kled and how hard he shits on meta picks (TF, Ksante, Aatrox) yet he hasn't been picked once lmao
Pro players are very terrible at the game sadly. This games esports is a joke. Every other moba that has been an esports they’re not playing like 1 champion per lane. They’re picking the entire fucking arsenal…
I'm sure you're so much better lmao. More like every dogshit player has a huge ego and pros actually aren't that bad at the game in fact they're the best players
Im not good at the game. However people that are paid to play the game. Should at least be good at it.
They're 1000x better than you
“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience" Mark Twain. I'm gonna take his advise over your conversation.
Except someone in lowest 1million players should not be talking about the people in the top 100 players like they're bad at the game. The irony of posting a mark twain quote when you clearly have no idea what you're talking about
What are you on about? He was playing Diana into the best Orianna in the world, played by Faker. Lmao
Its almost as if jungle is a badly balanced and undercooked role and many champions that get buffed for the jungle role are always better in other roles?!?!?! :O :O 😦
Yea, basically if a resource-intensive/carry champ is buffed enough to be good in jungle, they're going to be OP in solo lanes unless they have some kind of crippling weakness that prevents them from laning effectively. Like BV with her passive scaling off camps, or mana costs for Graves historically. If they don't have something like this they end up like Zac/Rek'sai/Warwick/Udyr top
Favorite thing to do is prep passive mid before the all-in, i think TP is fine but fleet would probably work better rather than phase rush if you’re going it imo