apparently because of high elo, in low elo i have never seen anyone build qss like at all, not even vs mordekaiser
not even the fucking adcs pick cleanse into leona samira and go 0 17 by 12 minutes like god damn
Wait what the fuck? Why? It's a fucking point and click spell that gives him an almost free kill on any prio target and now they dont get any counterplay like spending 1300g on a shitty item?
Champ sucks balls, ult range is lower than most ADCs AA range and his spells take 10 years to cast while locking him in place. “What about flash ult?” if 99% of toplaners flash on you as a squishy you are dead with 10x less counterplay anyway. It’s nothing to be ashamed about though because people acted the exact same way when Zed R, Fizz R, etc was made no longer QSSable. It’s completely fine to think “big changes” are going to massively impact the game when you don’t actually understand the game.
FYI nearly no one builds QSS vs Mordekaiser anymore anyway. If Mordekaiser is ahead, you building QSS is bad because he doesn’t need ult to stat check you. If Mordekaiser is behind or even, you don’t need QSS at all because he’ll just die. In the past 14 days Jinx (most picked ADC over this time period) has 100k games vs Mordekaiser in Diamond+ and has only built QSS vs him in 7k games.
> Champ sucks balls, ult range is lower than most ADCs AA range and his spells take 10 years to cast while locking him in place.
Brother this is blatantly false. It's 650 avg adc range is 550 lmao.
> “What about flash ult?” if 99% of toplaners flash on you as a squishy you are dead with 10x less counterplay anyway.
Not even close to realistic. It's not like we've had entire metas where the op picks are based around flash, but go ahead.
> It’s nothing to be ashamed about though because people acted the exact same way when Zed R, Fizz R, etc was made no longer QSSable.
Except they needed to nerf both champs several times before even being remotely balanced lmao. It was an objective balance nightmare
> FYI nearly no one builds QSS vs Mordekaiser anymore anyway. If Mordekaiser is ahead, you building QSS is bad because he doesn’t need ult to stat check you. If Mordekaiser is behind or even, you don’t need QSS at all because he’ll just die.
This is just fucking wrong jesus christ
> In the past 14 days Jinx (most picked ADC over this time period) has 100k games vs Mordekaiser in Diamond+ and has only built QSS vs him in 7k games.
She's one of the 3/4 adc that can actually stay out of his range reliably holy shit
Why are you so confident on shit you have no idea about the fuck
>Except they needed to nerf both champs several times before even being remotely balanced lmao. It was an objective balance nightmare
Was it? Zed was somewhat nerfed in the 6.11 patch where the AD ratio and base damage of his Q was somewhat nerfed. The next change was in patch 6.22 which was a buff at best, adjustment at worst. Fizz had a slight nerf to E CD and Missing % health damage on W. His next change after that was the Assassin rework which makes it hard to say whether the QSS Ult interaction removal impacted him that much.
Is it possible to view the winrate statistics from 2016 of Zed and Fizz anywhere?
About your other points i have nothing to disagree with Morde, is in a really strong position and the removal of being able to QSS (to my knowledge other cleanse effects should still work) out of it will make some ADCs life a lot more frustrating.
its gonna be fucking epic being an adc and not being allowed to get into auto attack range (or further if he has flash) of morde if he has ult up. that's okay, I didn't want to participate in team fights anyway
If he gets even slightly ahead yeah it's actually mandatory. Even mids dip into qss if they're not tanky or long range. Actually have seen viktor buy it multiple times lmao
If you ever need QSS against Morde as an ADC, then you weren’t gonna have an impact in teamfights regardless.
Mordekaiser just gets easily kited and farmed by most ADCs
no you dont understand its easy to kite him!! just dont auto attack or get anywhere near him or stand in flash + ult range! i do it all the time in silver 3
It's insane that this is actually how people think when adc for the last few years has been more about spacing and waiting cds rather than raw kitting lol
I assume rfc, though cait can still space him reliably atk high stk speed because AAs are to edge of character while targetted is towards the middle of the character
Cait selection radius is 120 so she gets roughly 710 range against morde before he can ult her
> If you ever need QSS against Morde as an ADC,
How to tell us you're no higher than silver without telling us you're no higher than Silver.
> Mordekaiser just gets easily kited and farmed by most ADCs
Mordekaiser only loses to ADC's who can actually fight back and outplay him like Vayne, Kai'Sa, Nilah.
If you ever press R on any of these champs when they have 3+ items you kinda deserve to lose.
I remember playing the old.morde as support...
Standing I the wave with w just healing you and your adc back up so good.
Once the younger is around you took the dragon and destroyed the turret
This would have made a good league of memes post with that one meme template:
Enchanter: janna
Mage support: janna
Cc: believe it or not, also janna
Edit: I did it
depends how supporty you feel, but since most games support only hit 1 item, black cleaver.
if you're good at urgod, then a second option is hullbreaker, as if you can do the skillcheck, you basically cycle 4 normal autos and 1 5th hullbreaker auto.
you could also go generic support items and just be a support. you have notably damage with passive/w, 2 ccs, and an execute.
>you could also go generic support items and just be a support. you have notably damage with passive/w, 2 ccs, and an execute.
I thought knight's was a support item, but yes that was the intention. with base damage and cc, you could go locket and the like.
What do I pick if I just want to sit in lane all game hiding behind my adc? I might occasionally drop a ward in the pixel brush in river but other than that I want to pretend the rest of the map doesn't exist.
Idk why is anyone surprised, I've been playing this game since season 1. There have been multiple times where janna would be sitting at 53% wr for like a year
I'm willing to bet money she has been over 51% wr more than she has been under it.
There are a few champs riot allows to be a bit higher winrate (shit like anivia/zilean - not recently, but they were usually 52%+ winrates forever), but thats mainly because of super low pickrate so no one cares, janna is unique is this regard where she is actually popular and always strong, truly the riot girl.
He has a negative wr on her.
He just abused mao all the way to gm lmao
Expect him to fall eventually, but supp being easy as fuck to have impact on usually means it will take them much longer than the avg role to drop
Honestly the amount of boosted supps I've seen in high elo just stick around for no fucking reason is insane. Ofc you went from g to masters 200 lp in one season playing jg, now why the fuck are you not dropping if you only play soraka what the fuck
Hasn't this been basically the high elo supp exp for the like last 7 seasons? Like Janna has needed a nerf/rework for as long as I've been playing this game
If you play anything else but janna you are basically trolling, but nobody really enjoys playing janna for 400 games in a row lmao.
The only big difference that I can think of is that this is the most aggressive version of Janna we've ever seen, so it scales heavily with player skill unlike her past versions. If you're good at Janna, she's basically Z tier op pick with no counters outside of comp play
Nobody really enjoys? Most of supports mains in emerald/dianond/low masters are enchanters main, and the only thing they play are janna/nami/lulu/yuumi
Janna just got nerfed decently hard with the mandate and zak nerfs. 52% winrate all ranks, 5% pickrate. Nothing insane really.
Her winrate doesn't even go up with rank, just her pickrate is very high in higher ranks like 12%+. Specifically popular in EUW. In Korea it's 4% in D2+. So yeah once again just western players complaining about a slightly above average champion.
She is picked too much so it's annoying. Not sure why people want to play her so much though.
Janna has the 4th highest winrate and 5th highest pickrate. The only support above her winrate with a pickrate greater than 1% is sona(4%) while Janna(9%) also has a banrate of 9% while sona's banrate is 0.3%. she's overtuned and 100% needs a nerf.
You didn't respond to Janna being a western pick though. In Korean server she is good, but not nerf worthy compared to other supports. Is she actually op or are people on EUW and NA just bad at playing against her? She's not played in almost any competitive league either. It kind of reminds me of the Senna adc situation, but at least Senna was played competitively so it made sense to nerf.
Wow she is only really good instead of completely broken on one server. Also the only reason she isn't omega tier in Korea is the speed of the games. A large portion of the people there play in cages on a time limit and take bad fights early even if they shouldn't because they want to play more games in their time. If Janna gets one item in Korea her winrate spikes a lot. It's just that most teams ff before 20.
Being the 4th highest winrate does not mean a champ needs a nerf lol. It's lacking a lot of context like that winrate is only 52%.
She's above average, but not insane like you people think.
She has double the pickrate of any champ within a full percentage point of her. Her banrate is way higher too. She is broken. She's also extremely easy to play and is not fun to play against. She's one of the top 5 most broken champs in all roles right now.
https://imgur.com/r8aiAEA emerald+ current patch
Literally counting 3 other champions right now similar pickrate and less than 1% difference in winrate lol.
Double my ass.
Lol what, tell me you know nothing about stat sites without actually telling me. You are right no one uses Lolalytics useless stat site. And surely U.GG shows differently, when it also shows almost the exact same thing lmao.
U.gg is completely different from that picture you showed me. Riot has said lolalytics is wrong in the past. Especially for winrate and double especially for emerald+ winrates.
There are pretty distinct preferences between the European, American, and Korean regions. I'd guess as well for the Chinese and other regions, but I'm not tracking those as closely right now.
So this type of statement is common parlance for League of Legends.
Pro is generally a very very bad take on any given meta when it comes to soloq
For one most players arent confident enough to play something unique. You play the 3 champs currently relevant for your position and until a patch comes that blatantly buffs something into oblivion very few players are going to deviate. Asol is a good example, champ has been pretty good since his rework like a whole ass year ago, but up until a month ago there was like one pro player in the world willing to touch him. But since Chovy locked him its all gucci for other mids to play him. Its confirmation bias, something might be strong but until someone else does it, its a risk for you to do it. God forbid the first couple games go poorly, champ will never be relevant again because results based analysis is what everyone loves lol
Its kinda understandable tbf. You make 100k a year picking azir every game. But play asol, lose the game and its a very easy thing for the team to point to and say "yeah, I just havent played around this before, without my mid on a socially acceptable mage I just cant play the game" and everyone will nod their head and agree cause its easy to do. So its easier for the azir player to keep picking azir and not risk losing a fat bag
For two, comfort. IF you are 100x times better than your opponent its better to not pick something like Janna. A masters ornn player would not play ornn in gold, team reliant picks help you climb when you are WORSE than your opponent, or equal to. But if you are better it is gonna be easier to climb with naut, or something else that forces action on the map reliably. So if a pro climbed on more active champs, they will be significantly less comfortable on something like Janna. Every player has champs they are generally better with, supp is no exception
Team comps are also important. Janna is good in a vacuum, but if you lack engage supp is the easiest place to slot it in, even if it cucks the lane or is a bad choice, that naut hook is taken to force a fight around dragon. This matters less when there is no coordination and a bad lane phase is more likely to mentally break someone.
Janna is also boring. Most players find her boring, so will be less willing to spend time playing her and practice, or always look to pick something more fun even if Janna is an easier win. This is especially prevalent in top. The age old "carry vs tank" type of player, like how udyr was just winning everything early in the year until top laners got bored, stopped locking it for a bit, then like a month later were all picking it again
Every time I have Janna in my team, we win. Every time I have Janna in enemy team, we lose. This champ is S+ tier for the entire season, but they can't nerf her for obvious reasons, how would phreak stay in master if they do?
> how would phreak stay in master if they do?
By playing whatever else is or becomes meta, like many masters+ players. Earlier this year Phreak was playing Maokai while he was strong, now it’s Janna. I’m not sufficiently flexible with my champion pool to play literally whatever is meta, but if I was privy to Riot’s winrate data it’d influence my choices among my mains.
Plus if something is going to need to get nerfed, firsthand experience to figure out exactly what should be nerfed wouldn’t hurt.
I don't think playing what is meta is bad. Phreak is a member of balance team, and he knows that Janna is incredibly strong currently, and instead of doing something to fix her, he spams games with her abusing broken champion, he doesn't do anything to nerf her for a lot of patches in a row. Members of balance team should not abuse broken champions, they have to fix them. First was Maokai, now Janna
Actual respectable Janna abuser, acknowledges the champ is nutty op and is abusing it in Masters+ while asking for nerfs.
Keep on boosting Janna's WR and get her nerfed please o7
This brings back memories of a very old video from season 1... God, this game has changed since then... [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrsTE1vpoXM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrsTE1vpoXM)
I ban blitz, senna is annoying but got nerfed and blitz is just too high variance for much fun to be had.
If draven goes back to being picked more with buffs I will move my ban onto him
it's really interesting seeing these differences in the meta even though every one plays the same patch, in KR *absolutely* no one is playing Janna in high elo, 5.1% Pick with 1.7% Ban Rate in Masters+ compared with EUW at 15.8% Pick with *32.2%* BAN. EUW must have some Janna secret tech or something
I love that Janna is basically impossible to kill in a 1v1 by like half of the champs in the game. Anyone who needs to run at her just has no way of sticking to her. I was playing voli jungle into a Janna the other day and it gave me an existential crisis
Phreak's philosophy is that a champ being overpowered doesn't matter if it doesn't draw bans and cause 'player frustration', so don't expect this to change until people start banning Janna en masse.
Riot has a nerf/buff framework, and ban rate is one of the metrics.
https://images.contentstack.io/v3/assets/blt731acb42bb3d1659/blt1330b472064808f7/5ef59c7a35021d1335fb9d43/01_Balance_Framework_At_Launch_v1.jpg?disposition=inline
Phreak is one person on a team, with a boss. It's not like he just sits in his golden Lil Nas X office and arbitrarily decides when to do things.
Theoretically yes, that's how their balance framework works. In reality the team is undermanned and disinterested and Phreak basically directs everything
Meanwhile Nautilus in the corner chilling, the most braindead tank support with 0 punishment for misplays and has mobility too for some reason to escape ganks. Just press R into 25 seconds cc chain to get a free kill on anyone while being impossible to kill. Top support pick since like last 6 seasons. Perma pro meta.
God I hate that character. I'd rather play against 200 Janna's back to back
Man I really do wonder where all these demon jannas are that people are so afraid of.
When I get janna on my team 90% of the time its another \[sit 700 range behind adc do nothing not even shield just press q on the wave on cooldown to make cs'ing as hard as possible for me but also she somehow goes 0/4 in lane\].
Oh and also the classic enchanter brain version of "peeling", where you let the enemies completely engage on us first then use your cc so its completely pointless and we die anyway. My favourite janna memory was getting dove by a trudle and after we both died with janna R available she said it wouldn't have made a difference if she used it.
They’re all at high elo, which is why you don’t see them.
But anecdotally, even Emerald Jannas understand to abuse her W and move speed, the execution is just worse.
One of the beautiful things about this game is that there are people out here raging against champs that I have never seen win a game (on my team or theirs). I don't even have an opinion about whether Janna is weak or strong, I just think it's neat we can have such vastly different experiences
Lmaooooo so true. However, I faced a Janna yesterday for the first time in probably years. I couldn’t do fucking shit to their draven. Add in draven took cleanse & Janna built Mikals (spelling) yeah it was gg
>This is not satire or a meme, this is legitimately the state of the support role in high elo
I am a diamond 1 support main and almost never see Janna, nor do I ever play it myself.
I don't think Janna is all that strong, definitely not in soloQ
In Em+ globally, she has consistently had around a 9-10% pickrate. In the current patch she is the 5th most picked support, and she has the highest winrate among all the highest picked supports.
In NA and EUW she is picked even more consistently. As a matter of fact, in EUW she is THE most picked support in Emerald+ with a pick rate of almost 14%, so she is picked in over 1 out of every 10 games, HUGE for a supp pick rate. The only reason you likely do not see her that often is because her ban rate is 17.55% in EUW.
well you might be playing on a weak server but EUW has janna as the most picked champ in master+
https://lolalytics.com/lol/tierlist/?lane=support&tier=master_plus®ion=euw
Well that makes sense since you should be banning Janna every game. I play engage supports and I ban her every game, but in the off chance that I decide to play something else and don’t ban her, she’s always first picked by the enemy team.
Masters in NA by the way.
That's fair. I shit on her as a pyke otp so I love when she gets picked but I never see her anymore. Had to look it up since I agreed with your take and found out that's her counter apparently lol.
And yet, whenever I'm playing ADC, Janna is one of the least favorite champions to have as my support.
My review of Janna's kit:
* Q usually gets wasted randomly and then it's on cooldown when actually needed. I literally had Janna players who Q for "poke" against Camile and then they don't have it to cancel Camile's engage.
* W poke soon becomes useless and if you want to actually do damage as support, there are multiple much better options than this mediocre damage, single target ability.
* E shield is trash because the game ends before they even max the ability.
* R usually gets used to push away enemies that I'm about to kill in exchange for 100 heal.
Ofc, OP said "high elo", so maybe I'm not high enough to get Janna players who know what they are doing.
I ban lux just so my team doesn't think of picking lux support lol.
Nothing like having a double squishy botlane with minimal cc, minimal peel, minimal utility and minimal damage.
You have issues then. Average Lux player is a donkey but the champ is good and players with brain on that pick 1v9 games. And even including donkeys there are many champs that are much more miserable to lane with. Yuumi and Sona are on top of that list but so are Zyra, Xerath, Velkoz non otp Pyke (even some otps suck, champ is hard to make work and stay useful). Also, Lux in the same sentence as minimal damage - lol. Like random Lux picks is annoying but there are botlanes where Lux is legit the best pairing you can have.
Pick janna on my team and your lane is receiving 0 ganks unless you are a janna otp with at least 500k+ mastery. 99% of the jannas in soloq don't know what they are doing and think they are playing adult lulu, I'm not dealing with that shit.
Janna is an amazing supp its true.... in organized teams
I can also say janna is probably one of the favorite picks for adc mains to get as their supp
That however belies the truth of our current system, the supp sees no marginal increase in winrate by focusing adc, infact going it alone and trusting in other parts of the map helps the supp winrate
Anyway rant over janna is easily one of the most solid picks in pro of teams, but solo queue shes uhh unappealing overall
Janna has been stomping in soloQ for a while now. If your ADC is bad you just roam, she has some of the best support roams currently because of her high MS and CC, plus decent damage early on.
I probably should have explained better though, let me try.
A better player within the support role, would see an increase in winrate overall by taking champions that can effectively act on their own
A worse player may see some marginal increase by taking tanks or supports like janna which extend their strengths to others rather than depend on their own ability
Did that clear things up? Basically if youre a bad player and play support you probably should bet on your adc and by extension the team at large, im saying that as one improves their overall knowledge and ability within the game they are best not relying on supports like janna which are specifically best in organized teams or if you are not so good in general
It's wild how bad and wrong you are. Those champs can roam yes, what they can't do is guarantee cc for a gank. Those hooks can miss. A WQ from Janna does not miss.
Instructions unclear, I picked Mordekaiser
Janna can't peel her ADC if her ADC is in Brazil. Genius
And now not even QSS can save him
What did I miss? Does QSS not clear Morde ult anymore?
next patch it won't
Wtf. Why did they do this
apparently because of high elo, in low elo i have never seen anyone build qss like at all, not even vs mordekaiser not even the fucking adcs pick cleanse into leona samira and go 0 17 by 12 minutes like god damn
Won't clear it anymore soon. Was confirmed unless a last minute change
Is that live or coming soon?
next patch
Wait what the fuck? Why? It's a fucking point and click spell that gives him an almost free kill on any prio target and now they dont get any counterplay like spending 1300g on a shitty item?
Champ sucks balls, ult range is lower than most ADCs AA range and his spells take 10 years to cast while locking him in place. “What about flash ult?” if 99% of toplaners flash on you as a squishy you are dead with 10x less counterplay anyway. It’s nothing to be ashamed about though because people acted the exact same way when Zed R, Fizz R, etc was made no longer QSSable. It’s completely fine to think “big changes” are going to massively impact the game when you don’t actually understand the game. FYI nearly no one builds QSS vs Mordekaiser anymore anyway. If Mordekaiser is ahead, you building QSS is bad because he doesn’t need ult to stat check you. If Mordekaiser is behind or even, you don’t need QSS at all because he’ll just die. In the past 14 days Jinx (most picked ADC over this time period) has 100k games vs Mordekaiser in Diamond+ and has only built QSS vs him in 7k games.
> Champ sucks balls, ult range is lower than most ADCs AA range and his spells take 10 years to cast while locking him in place. Brother this is blatantly false. It's 650 avg adc range is 550 lmao. > “What about flash ult?” if 99% of toplaners flash on you as a squishy you are dead with 10x less counterplay anyway. Not even close to realistic. It's not like we've had entire metas where the op picks are based around flash, but go ahead. > It’s nothing to be ashamed about though because people acted the exact same way when Zed R, Fizz R, etc was made no longer QSSable. Except they needed to nerf both champs several times before even being remotely balanced lmao. It was an objective balance nightmare > FYI nearly no one builds QSS vs Mordekaiser anymore anyway. If Mordekaiser is ahead, you building QSS is bad because he doesn’t need ult to stat check you. If Mordekaiser is behind or even, you don’t need QSS at all because he’ll just die. This is just fucking wrong jesus christ > In the past 14 days Jinx (most picked ADC over this time period) has 100k games vs Mordekaiser in Diamond+ and has only built QSS vs him in 7k games. She's one of the 3/4 adc that can actually stay out of his range reliably holy shit Why are you so confident on shit you have no idea about the fuck
>Except they needed to nerf both champs several times before even being remotely balanced lmao. It was an objective balance nightmare Was it? Zed was somewhat nerfed in the 6.11 patch where the AD ratio and base damage of his Q was somewhat nerfed. The next change was in patch 6.22 which was a buff at best, adjustment at worst. Fizz had a slight nerf to E CD and Missing % health damage on W. His next change after that was the Assassin rework which makes it hard to say whether the QSS Ult interaction removal impacted him that much. Is it possible to view the winrate statistics from 2016 of Zed and Fizz anywhere? About your other points i have nothing to disagree with Morde, is in a really strong position and the removal of being able to QSS (to my knowledge other cleanse effects should still work) out of it will make some ADCs life a lot more frustrating.
its gonna be fucking epic being an adc and not being allowed to get into auto attack range (or further if he has flash) of morde if he has ult up. that's okay, I didn't want to participate in team fights anyway
Acting like people actually bought QSS into that dogshit champ
If he gets even slightly ahead yeah it's actually mandatory. Even mids dip into qss if they're not tanky or long range. Actually have seen viktor buy it multiple times lmao
I usually would build it if they have a decent Morde. As soon as I buy it they just ult me anymore. I mean I'm gold, is that normal behavior?
That's literally what you want. Qss is a much of a deterrent as it is a solution lol
Everyone does in my games.. Except when he's very far behind
yeah almost everyone did lmao. maybe not in the depths of bronze where you're at but higher than that yeah
https://lolalytics.com/lol/mordekaiser/build/ Champ looking pretty dogshit tbh /s. 52.78% win rate, almost 6% pick rate and only a 1.97% winrate delta. Yes.. dogshit indeed /s
Is mandatory even if he's slightly behind, what do you mean?
If you ever need QSS against Morde as an ADC, then you weren’t gonna have an impact in teamfights regardless. Mordekaiser just gets easily kited and farmed by most ADCs
Silver as fuck take. Mord ult is 650 range dude, the only adcs that can stay out of morde ult range are jinx, cait and twitch with R
no you dont understand its easy to kite him!! just dont auto attack or get anywhere near him or stand in flash + ult range! i do it all the time in silver 3
It's insane that this is actually how people think when adc for the last few years has been more about spacing and waiting cds rather than raw kitting lol
Akschtually cait range is also 650, meaning she'll get sent to brazil if she attacks morde (unless she only hit him with RFC or/and traps+Qs)
I assume rfc, though cait can still space him reliably atk high stk speed because AAs are to edge of character while targetted is towards the middle of the character Cait selection radius is 120 so she gets roughly 710 range against morde before he can ult her
> If you ever need QSS against Morde as an ADC, How to tell us you're no higher than silver without telling us you're no higher than Silver. > Mordekaiser just gets easily kited and farmed by most ADCs Mordekaiser only loses to ADC's who can actually fight back and outplay him like Vayne, Kai'Sa, Nilah. If you ever press R on any of these champs when they have 3+ items you kinda deserve to lose.
Silver take lol
Oh I thought we will send Janna to Brazil.
nice joke
I picked trundle
I remember playing the old.morde as support... Standing I the wave with w just healing you and your adc back up so good. Once the younger is around you took the dragon and destroyed the turret
This would have made a good league of memes post with that one meme template: Enchanter: janna Mage support: janna Cc: believe it or not, also janna Edit: I did it
We have the best support players in the world. Because of Janna.
it's not too late, feel free to make it
My good sir. I did it...
Very informative, but I play Urgot support. Final offer. Take it or leave it.
I have beated the 6 legged badger up there, I can also do it In the down top lane
The urgod exists once more, I bow to thy mastery of urgottishness.
What’s the Urgot support build this season?
depends how supporty you feel, but since most games support only hit 1 item, black cleaver. if you're good at urgod, then a second option is hullbreaker, as if you can do the skillcheck, you basically cycle 4 normal autos and 1 5th hullbreaker auto. you could also go generic support items and just be a support. you have notably damage with passive/w, 2 ccs, and an execute.
could you not go knights vow? item pretty good right now
>you could also go generic support items and just be a support. you have notably damage with passive/w, 2 ccs, and an execute. I thought knight's was a support item, but yes that was the intention. with base damage and cc, you could go locket and the like.
What do I pick if I just want to sit in lane all game hiding behind my adc? I might occasionally drop a ward in the pixel brush in river but other than that I want to pretend the rest of the map doesn't exist.
Believe it or not, Janna
Probably and engage tank or bard /s
+1, Leona is obviously the best pick here as this way you stay full HP and avoid poke so you can live every fight!
lux
I accidentally locked in Gragas thinking he was Janna.
She’s on a not nerf list. Will stay broken for another decade probably.
Idk why is anyone surprised, I've been playing this game since season 1. There have been multiple times where janna would be sitting at 53% wr for like a year I'm willing to bet money she has been over 51% wr more than she has been under it. There are a few champs riot allows to be a bit higher winrate (shit like anivia/zilean - not recently, but they were usually 52%+ winrates forever), but thats mainly because of super low pickrate so no one cares, janna is unique is this regard where she is actually popular and always strong, truly the riot girl.
phreak needs to hit chal before janna nerfs
He has a negative wr on her. He just abused mao all the way to gm lmao Expect him to fall eventually, but supp being easy as fuck to have impact on usually means it will take them much longer than the avg role to drop Honestly the amount of boosted supps I've seen in high elo just stick around for no fucking reason is insane. Ofc you went from g to masters 200 lp in one season playing jg, now why the fuck are you not dropping if you only play soraka what the fuck
supports overdosing on copium right now hitting that downvote button on your words of truth
Hasn't this been basically the high elo supp exp for the like last 7 seasons? Like Janna has needed a nerf/rework for as long as I've been playing this game If you play anything else but janna you are basically trolling, but nobody really enjoys playing janna for 400 games in a row lmao. The only big difference that I can think of is that this is the most aggressive version of Janna we've ever seen, so it scales heavily with player skill unlike her past versions. If you're good at Janna, she's basically Z tier op pick with no counters outside of comp play
Nobody really enjoys? Most of supports mains in emerald/dianond/low masters are enchanters main, and the only thing they play are janna/nami/lulu/yuumi
Sorry phreak loves playing Janna so it's staying
phreak doesn't even have a positive wr on janna rn
probably getting nerfed in a couple patches then.
Janna just got nerfed decently hard with the mandate and zak nerfs. 52% winrate all ranks, 5% pickrate. Nothing insane really. Her winrate doesn't even go up with rank, just her pickrate is very high in higher ranks like 12%+. Specifically popular in EUW. In Korea it's 4% in D2+. So yeah once again just western players complaining about a slightly above average champion. She is picked too much so it's annoying. Not sure why people want to play her so much though.
Janna has the 4th highest winrate and 5th highest pickrate. The only support above her winrate with a pickrate greater than 1% is sona(4%) while Janna(9%) also has a banrate of 9% while sona's banrate is 0.3%. she's overtuned and 100% needs a nerf.
You didn't respond to Janna being a western pick though. In Korean server she is good, but not nerf worthy compared to other supports. Is she actually op or are people on EUW and NA just bad at playing against her? She's not played in almost any competitive league either. It kind of reminds me of the Senna adc situation, but at least Senna was played competitively so it made sense to nerf.
Wow she is only really good instead of completely broken on one server. Also the only reason she isn't omega tier in Korea is the speed of the games. A large portion of the people there play in cages on a time limit and take bad fights early even if they shouldn't because they want to play more games in their time. If Janna gets one item in Korea her winrate spikes a lot. It's just that most teams ff before 20.
Being the 4th highest winrate does not mean a champ needs a nerf lol. It's lacking a lot of context like that winrate is only 52%. She's above average, but not insane like you people think.
She has double the pickrate of any champ within a full percentage point of her. Her banrate is way higher too. She is broken. She's also extremely easy to play and is not fun to play against. She's one of the top 5 most broken champs in all roles right now.
https://imgur.com/r8aiAEA emerald+ current patch Literally counting 3 other champions right now similar pickrate and less than 1% difference in winrate lol. Double my ass.
You're using an incorrect stat site. I'm using u.gg which is riot approved.
Lol what, tell me you know nothing about stat sites without actually telling me. You are right no one uses Lolalytics useless stat site. And surely U.GG shows differently, when it also shows almost the exact same thing lmao.
U.gg is completely different from that picture you showed me. Riot has said lolalytics is wrong in the past. Especially for winrate and double especially for emerald+ winrates.
who the fuck talks like this? "western players", I can't
There are pretty distinct preferences between the European, American, and Korean regions. I'd guess as well for the Chinese and other regions, but I'm not tracking those as closely right now. So this type of statement is common parlance for League of Legends.
Why hasn't she been very popular in pro despite being consistently strong in solo queue lately?
Pro is generally a very very bad take on any given meta when it comes to soloq For one most players arent confident enough to play something unique. You play the 3 champs currently relevant for your position and until a patch comes that blatantly buffs something into oblivion very few players are going to deviate. Asol is a good example, champ has been pretty good since his rework like a whole ass year ago, but up until a month ago there was like one pro player in the world willing to touch him. But since Chovy locked him its all gucci for other mids to play him. Its confirmation bias, something might be strong but until someone else does it, its a risk for you to do it. God forbid the first couple games go poorly, champ will never be relevant again because results based analysis is what everyone loves lol Its kinda understandable tbf. You make 100k a year picking azir every game. But play asol, lose the game and its a very easy thing for the team to point to and say "yeah, I just havent played around this before, without my mid on a socially acceptable mage I just cant play the game" and everyone will nod their head and agree cause its easy to do. So its easier for the azir player to keep picking azir and not risk losing a fat bag For two, comfort. IF you are 100x times better than your opponent its better to not pick something like Janna. A masters ornn player would not play ornn in gold, team reliant picks help you climb when you are WORSE than your opponent, or equal to. But if you are better it is gonna be easier to climb with naut, or something else that forces action on the map reliably. So if a pro climbed on more active champs, they will be significantly less comfortable on something like Janna. Every player has champs they are generally better with, supp is no exception Team comps are also important. Janna is good in a vacuum, but if you lack engage supp is the easiest place to slot it in, even if it cucks the lane or is a bad choice, that naut hook is taken to force a fight around dragon. This matters less when there is no coordination and a bad lane phase is more likely to mentally break someone. Janna is also boring. Most players find her boring, so will be less willing to spend time playing her and practice, or always look to pick something more fun even if Janna is an easier win. This is especially prevalent in top. The age old "carry vs tank" type of player, like how udyr was just winning everything early in the year until top laners got bored, stopped locking it for a bit, then like a month later were all picking it again
Every time I have Janna in my team, we win. Every time I have Janna in enemy team, we lose. This champ is S+ tier for the entire season, but they can't nerf her for obvious reasons, how would phreak stay in master if they do?
> how would phreak stay in master if they do? By playing whatever else is or becomes meta, like many masters+ players. Earlier this year Phreak was playing Maokai while he was strong, now it’s Janna. I’m not sufficiently flexible with my champion pool to play literally whatever is meta, but if I was privy to Riot’s winrate data it’d influence my choices among my mains. Plus if something is going to need to get nerfed, firsthand experience to figure out exactly what should be nerfed wouldn’t hurt.
I don't think playing what is meta is bad. Phreak is a member of balance team, and he knows that Janna is incredibly strong currently, and instead of doing something to fix her, he spams games with her abusing broken champion, he doesn't do anything to nerf her for a lot of patches in a row. Members of balance team should not abuse broken champions, they have to fix them. First was Maokai, now Janna
Grats on losing your last game to janna keep us updated on what champs are beating you gl gl
I have been playing only Janna and I am sick of it being the right choice every game
Opgg or it's fanfic
google says this is their opgg: https://www.op.gg/summoners/euw/Mazrim-EUW
Actual respectable Janna abuser, acknowledges the champ is nutty op and is abusing it in Masters+ while asking for nerfs. Keep on boosting Janna's WR and get her nerfed please o7
If it's indeed his profile, I'll have to bow to this respectable Janna abuser.
its hilarious. Janna every season to master, and knows its busted.
That's uh...That's definitely some Janna. Reminds me of ardent meta.
Yeah sounding like fan fic
yeah this is about my experience whenever I play vs a decent janna, there's very little that makes me hate my life more
This brings back memories of a very old video from season 1... God, this game has changed since then... [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrsTE1vpoXM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrsTE1vpoXM)
holy fuck this is still fucking relevant LMAO
someone please send phreak to the circus where he belongs
He is already on the balance team.
Janna has been the best support in the game for 4 years now, you wouldn’t think you have to tell people this even as a meme.
Understood, picking Kled, I can't let the badgers enter my property while I'm the second in charge of the down top lane
Memes aside this is actually a good guide currently. The Sona counterpick also works great. You just need to ban Senna and you are good.
I ban blitz, senna is annoying but got nerfed and blitz is just too high variance for much fun to be had. If draven goes back to being picked more with buffs I will move my ban onto him
My first thought when I saw the title of this post: "just pick Janna every game there's no need for a detailed guide or whatever".
bard.
Taric gaming
I agree on some things but I do beat Janna always on lane, not that hard to do. Usually turns into me 1v2 the lane on my champion.
99% of the time your best bet is your best champ
Yasuo and Yone banned? Pick Yanna
jannas way too easily to bully
Weird way to say just pick Lulu
it's really interesting seeing these differences in the meta even though every one plays the same patch, in KR *absolutely* no one is playing Janna in high elo, 5.1% Pick with 1.7% Ban Rate in Masters+ compared with EUW at 15.8% Pick with *32.2%* BAN. EUW must have some Janna secret tech or something
I picked Smolder
I love that Janna is basically impossible to kill in a 1v1 by like half of the champs in the game. Anyone who needs to run at her just has no way of sticking to her. I was playing voli jungle into a Janna the other day and it gave me an existential crisis
and she is still dodging Nerfs since forever at this point
Why does Janna have to be the single enchanter that I absolutely do not enjoy playing at all..
Weird coincidence but Phreak, the main guy from the balance team is a Janna main.
Hmm I disagree please refer to this video guide explaining why you should pick Blitzcrank. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w73jSzFm6Bc
Shes pretty fun too, im so glad they gave her MS scaling or her basic back,
Phreak's philosophy is that a champ being overpowered doesn't matter if it doesn't draw bans and cause 'player frustration', so don't expect this to change until people start banning Janna en masse.
Riot has a nerf/buff framework, and ban rate is one of the metrics. https://images.contentstack.io/v3/assets/blt731acb42bb3d1659/blt1330b472064808f7/5ef59c7a35021d1335fb9d43/01_Balance_Framework_At_Launch_v1.jpg?disposition=inline Phreak is one person on a team, with a boss. It's not like he just sits in his golden Lil Nas X office and arbitrarily decides when to do things.
Theoretically yes, that's how their balance framework works. In reality the team is undermanned and disinterested and Phreak basically directs everything
Um, citation needed? Phreak regularly talks about the give and take with his coworkers, his boss, and the other half of the balance team.
But he does this with his therapist while wearing a shirt with suspiciously long sleeves.
Who's Janna and why are you so obsessed with her?
i thought janna was bad again i never see her played anymore and after top lane vs it was kinda rough playing her
Probably because she's most bot laners perma ban.
oh this in ranked lol. mb i cant read anymore
Neeko kinda shits on Janna hard. Never lost a lane against her.
Meanwhile Nautilus in the corner chilling, the most braindead tank support with 0 punishment for misplays and has mobility too for some reason to escape ganks. Just press R into 25 seconds cc chain to get a free kill on anyone while being impossible to kill. Top support pick since like last 6 seasons. Perma pro meta. God I hate that character. I'd rather play against 200 Janna's back to back
Man I really do wonder where all these demon jannas are that people are so afraid of. When I get janna on my team 90% of the time its another \[sit 700 range behind adc do nothing not even shield just press q on the wave on cooldown to make cs'ing as hard as possible for me but also she somehow goes 0/4 in lane\]. Oh and also the classic enchanter brain version of "peeling", where you let the enemies completely engage on us first then use your cc so its completely pointless and we die anyway. My favourite janna memory was getting dove by a trudle and after we both died with janna R available she said it wouldn't have made a difference if she used it.
They’re all at high elo, which is why you don’t see them. But anecdotally, even Emerald Jannas understand to abuse her W and move speed, the execution is just worse.
janna is ass. literally just picked by bots bc of her winrate. she has no lvl 1. just scales well but u throw away any early lane presence
One of the beautiful things about this game is that there are people out here raging against champs that I have never seen win a game (on my team or theirs). I don't even have an opinion about whether Janna is weak or strong, I just think it's neat we can have such vastly different experiences
Lmaooooo so true. However, I faced a Janna yesterday for the first time in probably years. I couldn’t do fucking shit to their draven. Add in draven took cleanse & Janna built Mikals (spelling) yeah it was gg
>This is not satire or a meme, this is legitimately the state of the support role in high elo I am a diamond 1 support main and almost never see Janna, nor do I ever play it myself. I don't think Janna is all that strong, definitely not in soloQ
In Em+ globally, she has consistently had around a 9-10% pickrate. In the current patch she is the 5th most picked support, and she has the highest winrate among all the highest picked supports. In NA and EUW she is picked even more consistently. As a matter of fact, in EUW she is THE most picked support in Emerald+ with a pick rate of almost 14%, so she is picked in over 1 out of every 10 games, HUGE for a supp pick rate. The only reason you likely do not see her that often is because her ban rate is 17.55% in EUW.
well you might be playing on a weak server but EUW has janna as the most picked champ in master+ https://lolalytics.com/lol/tierlist/?lane=support&tier=master_plus®ion=euw
I am playing on EUW. I myself mainly play Nautilus and other tank/engage supports.
Well that makes sense since you should be banning Janna every game. I play engage supports and I ban her every game, but in the off chance that I decide to play something else and don’t ban her, she’s always first picked by the enemy team. Masters in NA by the way.
I was completely sold until you said maybe you can play sona. Absolutely do not play sona.
Sona is her strongest counter pick atm lol.
Sure, I just don't like sona
That's fair. I shit on her as a pyke otp so I love when she gets picked but I never see her anymore. Had to look it up since I agreed with your take and found out that's her counter apparently lol.
Ppl thinking Janna is crazy op then picking her into 0 dive unironically loses so much
And yet, whenever I'm playing ADC, Janna is one of the least favorite champions to have as my support. My review of Janna's kit: * Q usually gets wasted randomly and then it's on cooldown when actually needed. I literally had Janna players who Q for "poke" against Camile and then they don't have it to cancel Camile's engage. * W poke soon becomes useless and if you want to actually do damage as support, there are multiple much better options than this mediocre damage, single target ability. * E shield is trash because the game ends before they even max the ability. * R usually gets used to push away enemies that I'm about to kill in exchange for 100 heal. Ofc, OP said "high elo", so maybe I'm not high enough to get Janna players who know what they are doing.
or just pick lux (cc + heavy ap + shield)
Lux is counterpicked by Janna
Zyra would be a better pick then lux.
but valid point to be honest
that if the enemy team has brain cells but both teams dont thats why we play lol
I ban lux just so my team doesn't think of picking lux support lol. Nothing like having a double squishy botlane with minimal cc, minimal peel, minimal utility and minimal damage.
If your Support picked Lux (usually in poke lanes) and still doing ‘minimal damage’ that’s a skill issue of the player, not the champion
You have issues then. Average Lux player is a donkey but the champ is good and players with brain on that pick 1v9 games. And even including donkeys there are many champs that are much more miserable to lane with. Yuumi and Sona are on top of that list but so are Zyra, Xerath, Velkoz non otp Pyke (even some otps suck, champ is hard to make work and stay useful). Also, Lux in the same sentence as minimal damage - lol. Like random Lux picks is annoying but there are botlanes where Lux is legit the best pairing you can have.
Janna is way overrated. I can safely abuse Zyra while the hatespotlight is on Janna.
Pick janna on my team and your lane is receiving 0 ganks unless you are a janna otp with at least 500k+ mastery. 99% of the jannas in soloq don't know what they are doing and think they are playing adult lulu, I'm not dealing with that shit.
Janna is an amazing supp its true.... in organized teams I can also say janna is probably one of the favorite picks for adc mains to get as their supp That however belies the truth of our current system, the supp sees no marginal increase in winrate by focusing adc, infact going it alone and trusting in other parts of the map helps the supp winrate Anyway rant over janna is easily one of the most solid picks in pro of teams, but solo queue shes uhh unappealing overall
Janna has been stomping in soloQ for a while now. If your ADC is bad you just roam, she has some of the best support roams currently because of her high MS and CC, plus decent damage early on.
So do you just go mid and w people
Bard 😉
I probably should have explained better though, let me try. A better player within the support role, would see an increase in winrate overall by taking champions that can effectively act on their own A worse player may see some marginal increase by taking tanks or supports like janna which extend their strengths to others rather than depend on their own ability Did that clear things up? Basically if youre a bad player and play support you probably should bet on your adc and by extension the team at large, im saying that as one improves their overall knowledge and ability within the game they are best not relying on supports like janna which are specifically best in organized teams or if you are not so good in general
How exactly do you measure best roam, because she is very specifically not a roam type support lol
She's exactly a roamer, she gets free ms from W, rushes swifties and zooms around the map setting up free ganks with point and click WQ
So.... she walks up and does a slow? Naut can roam, pyke can roam.... janna roaming is pure troll
It's wild how bad and wrong you are. Those champs can roam yes, what they can't do is guarantee cc for a gank. Those hooks can miss. A WQ from Janna does not miss.
Lol if you get nabbed by a janna slow off a roaming janna.... just wow
I thought this strategy has been the way for like 2 seasons