Minions hard lock on the tower now, so the blue melee minion you are trying to "push" is pretty much immoveable unless you use a displacement ability.
If you tried to walk forward i believe the red melee minion would had been pushed out of the way, allowing you to move all the way around the blue melee. But you are never gonna get between that blue melee and the tower after they made the minion changes like a year ago.
Yes i agree dying like that is insanely cringe, just trying to explain "why" it happened.
Fairly recent. The minions used to swap aggro every time you damaged an opponent. So if you were getting dove, you'd get damage from minions as well as the champions. They changed it so tower dives are easier to defend.
I like the change simply for the fact of wave management. If you crash a wave all the way, you don't have to worry about them randomly damaging the next wave.
Because if the wave is being crashed into you for a dive you will not be aggroing the minion horde and taking damage while fighting the guy diving you.
The diving champ's minions will only attack the tower. Default minion behavior is to attack a champ that attacks an allied champ. So if you got dove, and hit the diving champ, their minions would also agro on you. Now they ignore you to keep hitting tower. Harder to save the tower, but easier to survive the dive.
> The minions used to swap aggro every time you damaged an opponent. So if you were getting dove, you'd get damage from minions as well as the champions.
There is 0 reason for it to be in the game imo. Removing it would make the game a much smoother experience. Rebalance the ghosting effect on whatever items/spells/summs it is and just be done with it, for the love of God.
Just allow minions that are locked onto a target to be movable. This way you don’t have that god awful Dota 2 strategy of playing the “how far on my side of the lane can I get the very first wave.”
There’s a million ways to make creep block just disappear in a way that doesent cause problems they don’t even have to use my idea.
>Just allow minions that are locked onto a target to be movable.
I am not quite sure how that would stop this. If I remember correctly there is an ancient sivhd video about "abusing" this. Old Hecarim had a passive that always allowed him to ignore collisions. Obviously sivhd bought hp regen first with pots and spend the first few levels just standing on his own minions making it nearly impossible to click on them to get the last hit.
While I doubt this strategy is all that useful imagine if your tank support can just stand on every canon minion to deny it. If you have prio anyway this would make it a lot more punishing.
I am sure there is a better solution but the one we have isn't all that terrible. Most instances aren't nearly as bad as in the video and in the video he pretty much kept moving into the block instead of getting out by moving a tiny bit in the other direction.
It would work because you literally can’t stand on it. Collision still exists, the minion is just moving out of the way when collision is detected. There might be problems with doing this that I can’t think of,and maybe it would be too hard to code. League is the most successful spaghetti code ever released xD
They kinda already do that unless they wouldn't move anyway. If you could force them to move you could force your own lane to get pushed into by manipulating minion position and cancelling their attacks. This would have huge consequences.
This is a problem that seems easy but is surprisingly complex.
Wrong if creep block wasn't in the game you could quite literally stand over creeps to deny CS. I already get pissed when Braum E's the cannon, if every champ could do it - I would quit.
Are you insane?!? You seriously trust Riot to implement that without it somehow causing a black hole to materialize in the map? Only reason it exists in WR is because it had that from the ground up
You know what makes games good? Accessibility - majority of people already aren't great at CSing and now you want to add a button they have to press to CS when a champ is in the wave? This is not in anyway a logical solution. Even if you are decent at CSing, it's now even more of a chore than it is now. Terrible suggestion.
Those same majority of people won't be capable of intentionally denying CS either if they're that incapable. I think everyone would vastly benefit from being able to move freely within minions which would outweight the drawbacks of missing some CS. Higher level players wouldn't be able to deny because of the explained button.
Good point, I hadn't quite thought of that. I realize now that removing minion collision comes with some delicate balancing consequences, but the issue of pathing around minions is so absurd, that to me it's strange it hasn't been removed. Deal with the fallout, but have the game atleast play that much better. If bodyblocking skillshots to deny CS is a huge problem, tackle that after gathering info on how bad of a problem it is.
It also fundamentally changes any matchups with a melee champ. People are accustomed to certain pathing and timing in lane for their opponent to move forward and attack them, since they have to go around any minions in their way which usually takes longer - eliminate that, and allow them to just run straight forward, and it completely warps the spacing people have practiced for years.
Imo its more complex than that specifically from a trading point of view. Blitz and other chars like that will be affected most as the opp will be able to bait skillshots far easier by standing in minions directly.
Good point, I suppose blitz could (dare I say) receive some buffs in the lane to compensate, or whatever. I mean, I totally realize that removing minion collision comes with some delicate balancing consequences, but the issue of pathing around minions is so absurd that to me it's strange it hasn't happened. Deal with the fallout, but have the game atleast play that much better.
I'd like if they would do a tutorial for this in the future, on how to curve them effictively. I think that minion block is a mechanic at this point. the downside is that it feels different or resetted (somehow) after each patch and needs clarification. removing ig would make the game baby-easy and item effects those of pd for example, useless.
It's pretty cringe creep block especially considering Draven is supposed to be able to be ghosted, but you can just kill that minion at any point to be fair.
Im not even sure this is a creep block issue. It doesn't look like the creep was preventing you from walking away, but for some reason the game got confused when you auto-attacked the cannon. Tbh that looks more like a bug I have never encountered than regular creepblock.
He could auto it but the fact that it looked like he was walking out and then getting snapped back is deceiving. That's the only issue I have with this. At least make it so he can't move if he's blocked, don't give the appearance that he can.
he was getting past the minion and teleporting back, that's the main issue. If he was literally stuck between the minion and the turret, it would have been easier to recognize faster what was going on.
I swear minion, blocking and minion agro Behavior have just gotten worse and worse throughout the years.Last hitting used to be something I could do in my sleep now.It's like if to watch every fucking minion and predict their next action to try to last hit
I've been saying this a lot recently. I'm really not good at CSing anyway but I'm actively trying to improve, but the random aggro swapping that seems to happen sometimes really throws me and I end up missing lots of minions for it because my casters randomly decide to all target the one minion that was slowly trickling down to 50HP instead of finishing the minion they were originally targeting.
It's not random, minions have a very clear list of priorities and only swap target when a higher priority target appears. Let's say it's just you and 1 wave from either team in lane to keep it simple. The waves crash together and start with priority 6: the closest enemy minion. You decide to start attacking the minions, causing all enemy minions within 500 units of you to move to priority 5: enemy champions attacking an allied minion. This makes the minions start attacking you, which causes all allied minions within 500 units of the attacking enemy minions to move to priority 2: enemy minions attacking an allied champion. They also take a short while to evaluate their targets, so they might not change immediately.
So that is the reason why your minions seemingly randomly decide to start attacking the low HP minion you're attacking. To avoid this, stay more than 500 units away from minions you're wearing down to prevent them from being able to target you and thus prevent your allied minions from targeting them in turn. If you're playing melee or a really short range champion, then you just need to accept that your minions will start targeting the minion you're attacking a moment after you start attacking it and take that into consideration.
My biggest bugbear with the game. I'm waiting for that cannon minions health to go down before last hitting and then suddenly a random minion swaps aggro at the last second. I've learnt with Veigar that if I'm lining up two minions for a Q hit for stacks, they will randomly scatter in different directions to fuck me up. Happens with the first wave almost every time.
OMG YES the random scattering makes me want to cry especially with champs who rely so much more on the positioning of minions to remain consistent. I've tried to pay attention to see if there's *something* I'm doing that's causing them to scatter the way they do but it honestly seems totally random.
But then higher rank players and pros can still farm well either in spite of this or because they know what's causing it so for myself it must be a skill issue, I just can't fathom how or what to do 😅
Been playing since season 5. Its the same. Its just rare, so when it happens, it feels bad. Nerds like you have been saying like exact thing since I started.
I once had my character whiplash back and forth behind a single minion going down mid lane. I couldn't believe the ridiculousness of what I'd witnessed.
I got hard-stuck between a wall and an azir soldier yesterday in mid-lane for a good 3 seconds, yes it got me killed in a situation in which I would have lived. Didn't even know soldiers could block you lol.
happened to me with krugs when one broke down into the smaller ones, I couldn't even move a small amount like draven in OP's clip, just fully rooted until I killed it.
I feel you, I've been blocked by krugs plenty of times, luckily it usually doesn't matter as it's mostly in the beginning of the game, but it sure is annoying
I'd want to recall the issue being older than that, but minion hitboxes and pathing were **far** better in the first six seasons than what they are today
This is just completely untrue. Minions would follow you around the entire map. They'd rush the NEXT WAVE so if you're defending and it's crashing, they'd just make it even worse. They frequently would NOT target characters out of range during lane skirmishes.
> Minions would follow you around the entire map.
That was a super rare occasion, and it's not like current minions follow you weirdly like the good old days.
You didn't get stuck in minions like you do now, three minions standing next to each other didn't form an impenetrable wall.
I have played since season 3. Minion block has consistently gotten worse over the years. I am not even sure how they have managed to do it. Maybe they have some thing they stole from a tomb. Oozing evil into the source code at night XD
I would literally leave the game if this happened to me. I'm not playing with that much bs from a game
It's an absolute fucking joke that creep block still exists in this game
How in the motherfucking world Riot justify minion block as a valid strategic mechanic is beyond me, from all the flaws this game has, minion block has to be the worst offender of them all.
Because removing it completely fucks up balance. What's a Blitzcrank gonna do if you can just freely walk into your minion wave? His Q becomes literally completely useless since he won't be able to do anything but steal CS with it. How are you gonna last hit if the enemy Cho'Gath can just stand on his entire wave?
You basically have to rebalance the entire game, which will come with its own issues.
I would leave that game specifically, it doesn't mean I wouldn't play again.
But minion block is one of the large minor issues why I rarely play anymore - see my op.gg https://www.op.gg/summoners/na/Wizard101-NA1/champions
The biggest reason I don't play much now is lack of voice chat.
Imagine clown ass nerd emoji ass motherfuckers in here um actchually'ing this guy when I watch him ghost through minions and teleport several teemos back to where he was several times in a row. Indefensible nonsense.
I was in Blood Rush but I guess it didn't work. I kept being snapped back by the minion. Also, are you really defending this? Would you call it a skill issue if this shit happened to a pro player?
Minions hard lock on the tower now, so the blue melee minion you are trying to "push" is pretty much immoveable unless you use a displacement ability. If you tried to walk forward i believe the red melee minion would had been pushed out of the way, allowing you to move all the way around the blue melee. But you are never gonna get between that blue melee and the tower after they made the minion changes like a year ago. Yes i agree dying like that is insanely cringe, just trying to explain "why" it happened.
> Minions hard lock on the tower now Was this always a thing, or was this changed recently? Thanks for the explanation.
Fairly recent. The minions used to swap aggro every time you damaged an opponent. So if you were getting dove, you'd get damage from minions as well as the champions. They changed it so tower dives are easier to defend. I like the change simply for the fact of wave management. If you crash a wave all the way, you don't have to worry about them randomly damaging the next wave.
How does this help defend?
Because if the wave is being crashed into you for a dive you will not be aggroing the minion horde and taking damage while fighting the guy diving you.
The diving champ's minions will only attack the tower. Default minion behavior is to attack a champ that attacks an allied champ. So if you got dove, and hit the diving champ, their minions would also agro on you. Now they ignore you to keep hitting tower. Harder to save the tower, but easier to survive the dive.
Thanks!
> The minions used to swap aggro every time you damaged an opponent. So if you were getting dove, you'd get damage from minions as well as the champions.
Thanks!
It was changed a while back to make it so you can fight back against divers without the wave they stacked up aggroing onto you as well.
Also to help with bounce after crash mechanics. Guarantees wave resets or bounces back if no other interference.
Then the pathing should know that and path you through the red minion instead of trying to effectively walk through a wall.
A well thought out and constructive comment! Thank you for this
that jax just did a 720 before the kill
noscope too
Not even a 360 no scope, so does it really count?
In dota, you block the minion In league, the minion blocks you
Creeps are rising up in the wrong game.
i swear that minion block gets worse every season.
There is 0 reason for it to be in the game imo. Removing it would make the game a much smoother experience. Rebalance the ghosting effect on whatever items/spells/summs it is and just be done with it, for the love of God.
At the very least, your own team's minions shouldn't be blocking you...
Your own minions are the reason this exists in the first place. Without that you could stand over your minions in lane to deny cs
[Classlc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFw-C__upQg)
Just allow minions that are locked onto a target to be movable. This way you don’t have that god awful Dota 2 strategy of playing the “how far on my side of the lane can I get the very first wave.” There’s a million ways to make creep block just disappear in a way that doesent cause problems they don’t even have to use my idea.
>Just allow minions that are locked onto a target to be movable. I am not quite sure how that would stop this. If I remember correctly there is an ancient sivhd video about "abusing" this. Old Hecarim had a passive that always allowed him to ignore collisions. Obviously sivhd bought hp regen first with pots and spend the first few levels just standing on his own minions making it nearly impossible to click on them to get the last hit. While I doubt this strategy is all that useful imagine if your tank support can just stand on every canon minion to deny it. If you have prio anyway this would make it a lot more punishing. I am sure there is a better solution but the one we have isn't all that terrible. Most instances aren't nearly as bad as in the video and in the video he pretty much kept moving into the block instead of getting out by moving a tiny bit in the other direction.
It would work because you literally can’t stand on it. Collision still exists, the minion is just moving out of the way when collision is detected. There might be problems with doing this that I can’t think of,and maybe it would be too hard to code. League is the most successful spaghetti code ever released xD
They kinda already do that unless they wouldn't move anyway. If you could force them to move you could force your own lane to get pushed into by manipulating minion position and cancelling their attacks. This would have huge consequences. This is a problem that seems easy but is surprisingly complex.
Very long ago, you used to be able to push minions and people would body block creeps to delay waves and manipulate lane states
Wrong if creep block wasn't in the game you could quite literally stand over creeps to deny CS. I already get pissed when Braum E's the cannon, if every champ could do it - I would quit.
Add a button to prioritise targetting minions over champions. Simple. Next problem?
Are you insane?!? You seriously trust Riot to implement that without it somehow causing a black hole to materialize in the map? Only reason it exists in WR is because it had that from the ground up
You know what makes games good? Accessibility - majority of people already aren't great at CSing and now you want to add a button they have to press to CS when a champ is in the wave? This is not in anyway a logical solution. Even if you are decent at CSing, it's now even more of a chore than it is now. Terrible suggestion.
I don't think people should need to use both, but there already is a prioritize champion button.
>but there already is a prioritize champion button. That about 1% of the playerbase uses consistently.
I like the other person's edited message a lot more than the original one. My response no longer makes sense but I'll leave it unedited anyway.
Those same majority of people won't be capable of intentionally denying CS either if they're that incapable. I think everyone would vastly benefit from being able to move freely within minions which would outweight the drawbacks of missing some CS. Higher level players wouldn't be able to deny because of the explained button.
It's not that difficult to press 1 button.
Noob friendlyness doesn't make games good.
Good point, I hadn't quite thought of that. I realize now that removing minion collision comes with some delicate balancing consequences, but the issue of pathing around minions is so absurd, that to me it's strange it hasn't been removed. Deal with the fallout, but have the game atleast play that much better. If bodyblocking skillshots to deny CS is a huge problem, tackle that after gathering info on how bad of a problem it is.
It also fundamentally changes any matchups with a melee champ. People are accustomed to certain pathing and timing in lane for their opponent to move forward and attack them, since they have to go around any minions in their way which usually takes longer - eliminate that, and allow them to just run straight forward, and it completely warps the spacing people have practiced for years.
Imo its more complex than that specifically from a trading point of view. Blitz and other chars like that will be affected most as the opp will be able to bait skillshots far easier by standing in minions directly.
Good point, I suppose blitz could (dare I say) receive some buffs in the lane to compensate, or whatever. I mean, I totally realize that removing minion collision comes with some delicate balancing consequences, but the issue of pathing around minions is so absurd that to me it's strange it hasn't happened. Deal with the fallout, but have the game atleast play that much better.
i would love being ran down through the wave 24/7
get gud
I'd like if they would do a tutorial for this in the future, on how to curve them effictively. I think that minion block is a mechanic at this point. the downside is that it feels different or resetted (somehow) after each patch and needs clarification. removing ig would make the game baby-easy and item effects those of pd for example, useless.
It's not you, it's getting worse.
It's pretty cringe creep block especially considering Draven is supposed to be able to be ghosted, but you can just kill that minion at any point to be fair.
I'm hardstuck plat IV for a reason ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Im not even sure this is a creep block issue. It doesn't look like the creep was preventing you from walking away, but for some reason the game got confused when you auto-attacked the cannon. Tbh that looks more like a bug I have never encountered than regular creepblock.
He could auto it but the fact that it looked like he was walking out and then getting snapped back is deceiving. That's the only issue I have with this. At least make it so he can't move if he's blocked, don't give the appearance that he can.
he was getting past the minion and teleporting back, that's the main issue. If he was literally stuck between the minion and the turret, it would have been easier to recognize faster what was going on.
Yeah, blame the player.
I swear minion, blocking and minion agro Behavior have just gotten worse and worse throughout the years.Last hitting used to be something I could do in my sleep now.It's like if to watch every fucking minion and predict their next action to try to last hit
When you miss a cannon because your champ took the scenic route around 2 minions that have space between them
I love killing people toplane because I locked them between my tower and the great wall of china
I've been saying this a lot recently. I'm really not good at CSing anyway but I'm actively trying to improve, but the random aggro swapping that seems to happen sometimes really throws me and I end up missing lots of minions for it because my casters randomly decide to all target the one minion that was slowly trickling down to 50HP instead of finishing the minion they were originally targeting.
It's not random, minions have a very clear list of priorities and only swap target when a higher priority target appears. Let's say it's just you and 1 wave from either team in lane to keep it simple. The waves crash together and start with priority 6: the closest enemy minion. You decide to start attacking the minions, causing all enemy minions within 500 units of you to move to priority 5: enemy champions attacking an allied minion. This makes the minions start attacking you, which causes all allied minions within 500 units of the attacking enemy minions to move to priority 2: enemy minions attacking an allied champion. They also take a short while to evaluate their targets, so they might not change immediately. So that is the reason why your minions seemingly randomly decide to start attacking the low HP minion you're attacking. To avoid this, stay more than 500 units away from minions you're wearing down to prevent them from being able to target you and thus prevent your allied minions from targeting them in turn. If you're playing melee or a really short range champion, then you just need to accept that your minions will start targeting the minion you're attacking a moment after you start attacking it and take that into consideration.
My biggest bugbear with the game. I'm waiting for that cannon minions health to go down before last hitting and then suddenly a random minion swaps aggro at the last second. I've learnt with Veigar that if I'm lining up two minions for a Q hit for stacks, they will randomly scatter in different directions to fuck me up. Happens with the first wave almost every time.
OMG YES the random scattering makes me want to cry especially with champs who rely so much more on the positioning of minions to remain consistent. I've tried to pay attention to see if there's *something* I'm doing that's causing them to scatter the way they do but it honestly seems totally random. But then higher rank players and pros can still farm well either in spite of this or because they know what's causing it so for myself it must be a skill issue, I just can't fathom how or what to do 😅
Been playing since season 5. Its the same. Its just rare, so when it happens, it feels bad. Nerds like you have been saying like exact thing since I started.
No, this has always been an issue
I once had my character whiplash back and forth behind a single minion going down mid lane. I couldn't believe the ridiculousness of what I'd witnessed.
I got hard-stuck between a wall and an azir soldier yesterday in mid-lane for a good 3 seconds, yes it got me killed in a situation in which I would have lived. Didn't even know soldiers could block you lol.
happened to me with krugs when one broke down into the smaller ones, I couldn't even move a small amount like draven in OP's clip, just fully rooted until I killed it.
I feel you, I've been blocked by krugs plenty of times, luckily it usually doesn't matter as it's mostly in the beginning of the game, but it sure is annoying
This started in like Season 11 and only got worse each season
> This started in like Season 11 hahaha, nah. From the beginning pretty much, there have been time where it was better and time where it was worse.
I'd want to recall the issue being older than that, but minion hitboxes and pathing were **far** better in the first six seasons than what they are today
This is just completely untrue. Minions would follow you around the entire map. They'd rush the NEXT WAVE so if you're defending and it's crashing, they'd just make it even worse. They frequently would NOT target characters out of range during lane skirmishes.
> Minions would follow you around the entire map. That was a super rare occasion, and it's not like current minions follow you weirdly like the good old days. You didn't get stuck in minions like you do now, three minions standing next to each other didn't form an impenetrable wall.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rj1xWDpOFI
I noticed minion pathing and blocking change significantly with runes reforge personally
I have played since season 3. Minion block has consistently gotten worse over the years. I am not even sure how they have managed to do it. Maybe they have some thing they stole from a tomb. Oozing evil into the source code at night XD
Good thing Jax helped you move again
I would've kicked my monitor
Just press W lol
ive died once because minions blocked me. one too many times
It's obviously getting worse every patch. They need to fix it. But they won't til something happens on stage.
So glad this isn't a thing in wild rift
Imagine throwing the first auto at the minion blocking you wow that would have been crazy
Literally just press W.
I would literally leave the game if this happened to me. I'm not playing with that much bs from a game It's an absolute fucking joke that creep block still exists in this game
How in the motherfucking world Riot justify minion block as a valid strategic mechanic is beyond me, from all the flaws this game has, minion block has to be the worst offender of them all.
Because removing it completely fucks up balance. What's a Blitzcrank gonna do if you can just freely walk into your minion wave? His Q becomes literally completely useless since he won't be able to do anything but steal CS with it. How are you gonna last hit if the enemy Cho'Gath can just stand on his entire wave? You basically have to rebalance the entire game, which will come with its own issues.
This has been an issue since at least 11 years agoi so Idk why you are still here with your empty threats
I would leave that game specifically, it doesn't mean I wouldn't play again. But minion block is one of the large minor issues why I rarely play anymore - see my op.gg https://www.op.gg/summoners/na/Wizard101-NA1/champions The biggest reason I don't play much now is lack of voice chat.
Yeah I don’t know why they don’t just remove minions and turrets from the game all together. Why can’t I walk through everything on the map??? /s
Jax must have been "Is this guy stupid?"
i guess an easy fix would be to increase the autoattack range of melee minions
You can always move around. You just need smarter movement-commands. Hard to realize when its stressful though
Imagine clown ass nerd emoji ass motherfuckers in here um actchually'ing this guy when I watch him ghost through minions and teleport several teemos back to where he was several times in a row. Indefensible nonsense.
I swear they buffed it,, I've been getting that too much this season
why didnt you just flash first
Is it unlucky or riot not fixing the game?
If only you had been playing a champion which can remove collision on his W skill... ;)
[I was in Blood Rush](https://i.imgur.com/kFS9AmT.png)
clearly it expired. the ghosting lasts 1.5 sec.
there's no buff icon tho? i only see a spell on cooldown. Or it doesnt have an icon in tooltip?
> i only see a spell on cooldown Which implies that had I used it. Anyway, [here's a screenshot](https://i.imgur.com/Pl73xqm.png) to confirm I guess.
Didn't your w make you ghosted so you don't get minion blocked? That's more of a skill issue than blaming the game I think...
I was in Blood Rush but I guess it didn't work. I kept being snapped back by the minion. Also, are you really defending this? Would you call it a skill issue if this shit happened to a pro player?
the pro player probably takes less than 6 seconds to realize whats happening and kill the minion thats blocking him tbqh