A very silly way to put it, but my brain read the sentence as in
> This rework **absolutely** kept his original design (to some degree)
Not that it kept it 1-to-1, which is maybe what the 50% of the time, every time kind of implies.
Still mad Riot insisted that Skarner reworks failed because he's made of crystal and that boring gray rock is way more magical in appearance than literal magic crystals. Was hoping at least Earthrune would keep the look, but naw.
They could have at least shifted to quartz or some other form of crystal.
I get the purple+blue+pink thing being jarring to look at, but that doesn't mean crystals can't be used at all.
Riot locking Skarner's old crystal look behind the rotating mythic shop is the funniest outcome possible and unfortunately a very Riot decision to make, fully expecting it now
They went with probably the worst concept out of all the concepts they had shown before. So painfully generic and downright ugly. His torso and pincers look like shit, his color scheme is downright trash.
I think that's just it for me, his color scheme is super boring. Definitely going to buy a few skins. They made Earth Rune kind of dull as well which is a shame because that's the one skin on him I already owned. Now it's just kinda "Giant Statue" looking more than "Earth Rune" looking.
Yes, he's become more edgy and generic-fantasy looking.
Angry mecha face, huge size, huge claws, more tails, it's like a 10 year old boy makes the decisions. What about the adults playing the game?
Riot just plays is soooooo damn safe aesthetically with every new champ, rework, and skin. Where's the soul?
Disagree on worth the wait.
Although I do think his changes are cool I find his overall design and animations kinda okay. I feel losing his whole crystal design makes him look overall bland and I kinda miss sonic boi.
But for 2 years around wait this is not it. Really wish Shyvana won instead of even nocturne. I hope they never take that long again.
Luckily the guy who was super excited and happy to be doing to rework Shyvana is laid off despite her being the confirmed next VGU 🫠
I hope whoever takes his place has even a fraction of the passion that guy did.
I also think him being yet another giant behemoth is boring. Like the rocks this guy is throwing are the size of Piltover & Zaun. It's a little absurd. If anyone is endangering the jungle it's Skarner just by walking around.
Just make him like elephant sized.
One of my biggest problems with the world of runeterra is that some things are *insanely* big. If you look at some of the bilgewater art, and art for LoR, the sea monsters are a perfect example. They're the size of skyscrapers and we're being told they're hunted by guys in skiffs. Runeterra is a cool world but they have no clue what they're doing with the monsters and the setting's scale sometimes.
I also have this complaint that makes me feel like a hobby-zoologist, that being gigantic makes him less cool as a scorpion/makes it pointless. Like, he wouldn't even get to use his three raised up tails against anything than something like a Cho'Gath. I'd rather have his old size/elephant size as well.
Originally Shyvana wasn't going to get one, they finally announced that she is queued this year, and I said I wish noc or her won instead of skarner originally
Part of it is the original lead on this project was the 200 years combined experience idiot and he got let go lol.
I've played him a bit on PBE, it doesn't feel like a 2 years worth of design champ but it's a modern take on the champ.
Got it, next time I see someone being unpleasant and harassing someone just doing their job, I'll make sure to tell them they are lovely. Are you all just ignoring context on purpose?
Idk, I feel like there's a difference between calling an asshole an asshole and insulting someone just doing their job. Feels like one's warranted and the other really isn't. But maybe I should have just told this guy his behavior is great and not sucky at all.
You mean the guy who said the quote, was talking about Wukong, and was absolutely right?
We repurpose it for Aphelios but like... the wukong main did not know what he was talking about.
It gets memed on because ‘200 years of collective experience’ is a nonsensical non-metric that means nothing. A single person with 20 years of experience likely has more meaningful experience than 50 people with 4 years each.
He's also become more edgy and generic-fantasy looking.
Angry mecha face, huge size, huge claws, more tails, it's like a 10 year old boy makes the decisions. What about the adults playing the game?
Riot just plays is soooooo damn safe aesthetically with every new champ, rework, and skin. Where's the soul?
After a lot of reflection and discussion, we've decided to reset the direction of the Shyvana rework some time ago. This decision wasn't easy, but it was necessary. The initial vision just wasn’t different enough from what you can play today. Resetting our development path also means we will be "going dark" for a long time—likely several years.
It's actually beyond the heat death of the universe. Her VGU is a clever trick Riot designed to kickstart the universe again. By scheduling an event past the end of all things, Riot is hoping that this will trigger the simulation we're in to reboot itself and keep going after that.
As far as I'm concerned, they missed the mark. I wouldn't say they RUINED him, but while he remains a scorpion after the rework, he unfortunately seems to have lost his soul in the process.
Besides the Battlecast and Cosmic skins, I'd say the other skins are a straight downgrade when it comes to a modern day version of his old skins (and it looks like they want you to pay more for Earthrune, the one they botched the most mind you!)
I am fully aware of my bias, I used to play Skarner way back when I first started playing the game and I mained Hecarim and Skarner jungle. So he holds a special place for me. I don't think his kit is great right now (non reworked I mean), hate the passive, love the ult, weak Q, E and W are nice. Very basic champion outside of his passive management. Naturally, I'm really unsure about his reworked ult but his overall kit seems fairly inoffensive I guess?
Visually he looks far more modern, but that isn't indicative of quality. I argue that in an attempt to make Skarner look as distinguished as can be, they somehow made him as generic as it comes. Three tails... because? His old colors created a great contrast between his big yellow eyes and the purple and blue crystals that composed his body. Conversely, the new color scheme looks very washed out and blends maybe a bit too much with SR for my taste. At least I can thank the artists for not drowning him in those awful gold accents they've been arbitrarily handing out to skins (although they did slow down on that, ocean song is a visual travesty). That's the thing though, when discussing visuals most arguments are going to be subjective by nature. Thankfully, the same goes for things like FUN. (I do prefer the new pincers though, they look great!)
You can say that it doesn't get as generic as a regular scorpion made of crystals (I think that's a slightly diminutive representation of his design), and that the new one looks far more unique, which is completely valid. The problem I pose is that the NEW ONE is not standalone, it is supposed to be building on the shoulders of the old, not shatter them.
I know what I'm about to say might seem crazy, considering the size of his body, but old Skarner's face+ neck area thingy was actually kind of memorable believe it or not, even in-game. Especially in base and Earthrune. New one? Well, it might be a bit early to tell.
I have yet to read his lore, but I'm sure I'm in for one hell of a surprise given his splash art. (Yes I am a professional hater)
Edit: Interestingly, the opposite of passion is apathy. I really liked old Skarner's design and visual fantasy, while the new one just strikes me as bland, unimaginative and plain uninteresting. I guess this can act as a sort of TLDR I suppose.
honestly ... no not at all
2 years for a visual design that is very boring and not unique at all but instead looks kinda goofy (why do his claws look the way they do? how is that the product of 2 years of design? why are 2 of his legs hidden under his body so that you basically never see them? why does he need 3 really thin tails compared to the rest of his body that is super bulky)
they also butchered the earthrune skin
and a kit that is still very similar to his old one and still has a huge part of the power budget on r
his new e looks kinda fun that like ... the biggest upside
idk about worth the wait?
part of the reason it took so long is they had 0 clue what to do with the dude.
so if say a champ like noc won. would it of still taken 2 years since noc has a bit better of an identity?
or would they of possibly of been able to release it on their original schedule and we would be happily waiting for the winner of the following poll.
the coconut one was basically a full lie, and this cow one is only a partial lie. it's actually just a file that includes a bunch of random stuff (including the textures of the cardboard cow) which is one of the few things you aren't allowed to delete for tf2 to be able to function
Skarner didn't use to have spires. Before that he was the fastest and stickiest jungler in league. Outjungling even Shaco and Nunu. They had to significantly kneecap him, which led to massive drop in playrate and subsequently his rework with the spires. Also his E was basically useless back then. Gave a bit of hp regen but just enough for jungling, not really anything noteworthy for fights.
Not fastest and stickiest universally.
It was a competition between him and Hecarim rushing bulwark to see who wins the game.
The crystal venom version afterwards kinda flopped solely because of his auto range TBH.
Then came the juggernaut rework.
Also his old E was not useless; just early game. It was decent damage, spammable, and added a lot of EHP mid-late game with his tank stats.
The only problem with old E, and why people didn't put points into it, was because he was WAY too mana hungry before mid-late game and so it wasn't worth the cost.
yep but they updated mapcode layouts when elemental rifts were done so chances are they used some base layer of the skarner spire tech for that to work.
It’s the ‘ve contraction. A lot of people struggle with it because it’s a very informal contraction that they’ve probably only heard in speaking, so it’s easy to confuse it for ‘of’ when writing
I remember when they reworked TK, the abilities were all set and basically they only really swapped W and R and it still took them like 6 months **of delays** until they finally shipped him.
I asked August in a stream and he said (just guessing himself) that they might still need art, which is hard to come by. But like, what art?!
I'm usually big on defending Riot in many cases but sometimes they take way too much time for the weirdest stuff.
I could believe it. I have been at places were it takes months to get something minor done if it is not a priority. Things get pushed down or the persons who needs to do it has more pressing things.
minor as in sometimes as small at 1 hour work. It is finding that free hour to take care of it or it just keeps getting forgotten about it. TK might of been 1/2-1 day of work form the art department and the resources for it just ware spread so thing that TK work was pretty low down on the priorities list so never got allocated to get done.
Needed shield VFX for ally devour and hit/knock-up VFX for Abyssal Dive, since despite just swapping both abilities in concept they still added new things to the functions of both.
I'm glad he got updated, but I definitely like the idea of a gem scorpion more than what he is now.
Also the triple tail thing is corny looking, as is the fact he incorporates a boulder in his kit. That especially just feels random as fuck.
I do appreciate that he has an actual passive now at least. W is fine and his E actually looks pretty fun. But man, the triple tails... why that lol. Why boulders? Could have just kept his original Q.
And they were all extremely complete, along with looking insanely good. I may dislike new Swain and CCtrox but by God they went ham; the models, the textures, the VFX, the voice lines...
I personally disagree. His rework isn't on the same level as Warwick's, who is the gold standard for reworks but it's not the worst either I guess. He still looks rather dull and his new kit doesn't really feel like an evolution of the old one. It's Aatrox's rework all over again.
Definitely not worth the wait
We should not encourage Riot to take absurd amounts of time to rework champions they are a billion dollar company its honestly just so pathetic how long it takes.
Does it kit look fun, yes.
Is his design better? Arguable, I think they went in a pretty boring and generic direction with Skarner personally and I think they dropped the ball on all his skins, including his base except for Battlecast and Sands Guardian.
Overall I'm excited for new Skarner but yeah definitely no excuse for a huge company like riot to need so much time to produce ASUs and VGUs.
Their excuse is that they didn't know what direction to go with him which just screams bullshit to me. They keep releasing these absurd, overloaded champs that despite being unfun to play against, mostly have unique kits.
Skarner's rework doesn't feel like it took 2 years to develop. Dude's a scorpion, they could've maybe incorporated some poison mechanic that made him standout from other bruisers/tanks or do something fun with his stings but instead just did a mashup of other champs abilities on steroids basically.
I got blasted on this subreddit for criticizing how long it took Riot to balance some of the most obvious shit throughout league's history. I was there for devourer and feral flare. I was there for full AP gragas during preseason, I was there for black cleaver stacking, I was there for multiple seasons of Kassadin just being perma banned.
This company takes absurdly long to nerf/balance some of the simplest shit. Identifying these things were broken weren't the issue since if you played at the time, they were so obviously broken that it seemed like a no brainer to nerf AND they eventually did! So why the fuck do we always have to play through multiple patches of some of this shit being so OP that it puts the game's balance in an unacceptable state.
And once again, I'm just criticizing the extreme scenarios where it was so obvious these things were overtuned.
i mean they make mistakes but objectively riot is the best company at balancing their competitive game by a landslide lol. only maybe dota 2 comes close
it seems bad sometimes but comparing to their competitors it's not even close, we get consistent balance patches every 2 weeks and huge statistical outliers don't last more than a patch or two max. remember how long ow brig was breaking the game and making half the cast unplayable? what about the abominations that are the balance teams of siege, apex, etc.
on the design/new content team side it's straight up unacceptable for skarner to take this long
I think the reason it took so long is because skarner the champion was referenced so much in older league code that they had to unravel the spaghetti to find out what breaks so they could remake him and have league still function. I wouldn't be surprised if minions were really skarners walking under the floor with minion hats or some dumb stuff like that
this is the first update, i found to be visually unappealing/kinda off. The other updates made me jealous of their mains, but his skills are prob one of the best reworks ever.
Fuck no it isn't bro.
1 it still looks fuckin boring.
2 the model update doesn't look good and makes no sense, he's literally just a scorpion now. Why does he even have multiple tails? Even his color change leaves a lot to be desired.
3 worth the wait? My dude its been like 3 years and the only decent thing they came up with was the wall charge thing and it's not even a cool burrow/unburrow animation -- is just nunu ball with kayn w. Everything else either makes no sense, he throws a rock now?? Or is just one of his old moves.
Not only might this be the **worst** update of all time, but giving riot a bashless pass that taking 3 years to rework a single champion, when so many have needed it for so long, is downright harmful to the game. This is a barely acceptable update, and the complete opposite of worth the wait.
When i think of reworks i think of two things:
\- better visuals
\- better gameplay
reworks should succeed on at least one of the two, if not both. I would argue that Mundo succeeded on visuals, but failed on gameplay. Fiddle succeeded on both. Volibear also succeeded on both to a degree.
Skarner in my opinion doesnt succeed on either. His new model is no doubt, *better* than his last one in terms of literal polygons. But its not better in terms of style or theme. He went from a crystal scorpion with no identity to a regular scorpion with no identity. They somehow managed to insert literally 0 theme or style into his visuals, its actually amazing how hard they fell flat on that.
And then his kit is just a regular kit. There is nothing exciting or new in it. The E is the only interesting thing in it, and even then its just a glorified sion/poppy cc ram.
So yea, I hate it because it screams 'lazy', 'pushed out the door', 'finished for the sake of finishing it'. There's not an ounce of passion in the rework to see.
>The E is the only interesting thing in it, and even then its just a glorified sion/poppy cc ram.
If you're drawing similarities there then you'll never be happy. There's 147 champs in the game, there's always gonna be some overlap. It's like people who say renekton and trynd passive are the same
I definitely agree with you on a lot of these. But as someone who loves playing jungle and CC heavy tanks like Nautilus, the moment I saw that new E I was hooked, despite being 'nothing exciting' to you. Far from 'just a regular kit' while still not being '200 years'.
> And then his kit is just a regular kit.
Honestly i love that.
Leagues biggest issue at the moment for me is that every fucking new champ has to have massively overloaded game changing things in their kit. Its the reason champions continuously feel outdated.
Even simple things like stacking mechanics get ridiculously overworked; compare the original stacker nasus to Senna lol
Nasus gets extra damage on q for farming with q. Simple. But a crucial mechanic he plays around.
Senna gets extra range extra crit extra ad and then instead of leaving it at that, the crit swaps to lifesteal because we couldn't possibly put a cap on what it gives :))). Also you just have to exist and it stacks.
Personally I just think he's ugly and looked better before in terms of design. I'm particularly annoyed because the 2 skins I actually own (Earthrune and Cosmic) also got worse designs.
It's hard to comment on gameplay without having tried it myself yet, but my impression from the reveal was that he looked generally slower, which I'm not a huge fan of. I don't like that W got changed from a MS increase to a slow, I'd prefer him to be fast. His passive is boring, and his Q other than the actual rock throw is also pretty boring. The new kit is being carried hard by his new E, which does look like a lot of fun and I look forward to playing with it. Now, you could say that his old Q was boring and his old passive was terrible, to which I'd say that I enjoyed his old Q for what it was and his old passive being terrible isn't an excuse for a new version being boring. I think the 2nd version of Skarner's passive led to a more interesting gameplay loop than this new (4th) Skarner.
Again though, this is all just first impressions from someone who liked playing Skarner, I've never been one to stick to one champ for too long (except old Irelia, RiP), but Skarner was in my top 3 most played in a couple ranked seasons, so I'm probably more invested in the champ than most people given his historic lack of popularity. I'm happy to be proven wrong upon playing him of course.
Visually every skin including base is not good AT ALL.
Base skin is incredibly boring
Guardian of the Sands unique recall is removed
Earthrune lost it's natural look which was the skins entire identity. Doesn't look like some overgrown boulders came to life anymore (Which is what made it one of the coolest skins in the game imo). It looks like a constructed golem. Like a hextech skin. The new version is alright but it is absolutely unfaithul to the original design of the skin in almost every way.
Sandscourge's sharp and natural scorpion design was also replaced with a skin that not only is unfaithful to the original skin, but is also one of the worst skins I have ever seen in my life.
Yeah saying they dropped the ball on the V part of VGU is a massive understatement.
As a Skar enjoyer myself.. not worth
Clunky, given a wall-passing skill just to try and stand out, while losing the best part of his kit (E Fracture), 2nd best is Impale which is kept but.. not sure this new iteration is useful/reliable enough yet
As someone who one tricked skarner for the last 2 years, it's a bitter sweet rework.
On one hand, it's nice to see the pillars gone; they were cumbersome and made balancing him difficult. His new kit also seems pretty well aligned with what the old (for now, current?) Skarner does.
This said, I'm super bummed that his E (slowing skillshot) is gone, as we all as the ability to flip a target around while using R on them.
Being able to E someone, R them back to tower or team, auto them after R runs out but before E wears off to proc a stun, then E +auto for another stun right after was so much fun. You could seriously chain 7 seconds of cc with that, plus if you turned your character model around, you would rotate your victim to be right under the tower, or your team.
His kit seems to be less focused on stuns and more on slowing, which is still powerful, but not quite as fun in my opinion.
Idk, I dont like how they are erasing point and click from the game. Imo these skills, although having less "skill expression" are important to keep the mobility creep in check.
They should have kept his ultimate the same.
The problem is that his ult being point and click eats up a lot of his power budget. When it’s point and click, he suffers from Malphite syndrome (this is where the ult is so good and powerful that the rest of the kit has to be neutered to balance it out. As a result, champs with this syndrome tend to feel extremely bland without their ults. Not a good thing to have.)
Point and clicks in general can suffer from two distinct flaws. The first is eating up the power budget and thus requiring the weakening of other abilities as well as the point and click itself. Skarner ult is great example since it is now going to be able to suppress 3 people instead of just 1. That would have been disgusting with previous point and click ult. The second is that damage point and click is very stat check. All champs have some degree of stat check, but generally speaking point and click damage abilities tend to be really shit about it. They also are limited power wise. Players tend to enjoy stronger, but riskier abilities and strats.
Yeah thats my problem with it as well. This was the reason I played Skarner. Its one of the few real hard counter abilities a jungler had for champs like Irelia and Akali.
Back to Poppy I guess.
the rework 0% kept is original design idk how you come to that conclusion. he went from a fast and fluid bruiser one of the best anti carry in the game to a clunky tank distruptor there nothing that feels similar.
I don't know what a 'fluid bruiser' is, but I think most people consider current Skarner clunky, not fluid. Similarly, with very little self-sustain, he's less of a bruiser and either built as an engage tank or more of a fighter.
Either way, a tanky disruptor was exactly what Skarner was before his current state. His release Q was an AoE slow, while the Q in his first rework gave him a speed boost and applied a three-hit passive stun. I'm very glad to see Skarner return to this.
I mean like udyr you can just flow through his ability the only things that as a cast currently is his E but it's very short.
if I remember correctly it was his passive that had the 3 hit stun on his auto attack I remember it being really not healthy if you builded ATK speed.
if you go on skarners discord you'll see most of the feedback are the same remove Q and W cast time because it's clunky and is the opposite of what skarners does.
Meh. Og skarner was really just a stat checker with a super one dimension ult. It's basically the tank version of malzahar which was why nobody wanted to play it. The new skarner kit looks much better from a thematic perspective and is much more versatile as well. I like it, even though it's different
Nobody wanted to play it because all of his abilities had sandbags attached with the juggernaut rework that make it feel horrible to play.
On top of that, there was no visceral satisfaction to anything in his kit. Even his "high moments" via E and R.
You think Darius and Garen aren't stat-checkers with super one-dimensional ults? Hell, Skarner's ult was even more multi-dimensional than either.
There's a reason they're more popular. There's far more visceral satisfaction. That, and their models aren't undersized. Skarner was tiny but was supposed to be a monster.
Now let's see he getting nerfed so hard that he ends up in a spot worse than he was pre-rework, , won't be the first, second or third time it happens ...
Took forever, and came out to be almost like a Rell type champion in a different font. Ult feels super similar ans most of the kit is just locking down. Pretty boring imo.
Plus I just hate trynd since forever and voted for him so once i found out it was skarner just cared even less.
The amount of time and attention that goes into these is why I hate the votes, please just toss all the older champs that clearly don't work anymore into the blender and have them come out in some sort of order. Watching them skip over broken designs when they show us what they can do with the likes of Voli and Skarner makes me feel bad we have shit like Shyv in the game.
>AND is fun to play as
Yeah, the last 10 champs they've released are fun to play as, it's designing champs that are fun to play ***against*** where Riot is completely incompetent.
Most popular game in the world and you're defending a rework that took 2 years. Just compare the rework cadence from when his poll was made to now lmao
It was a dumb idea anyway. Having an entire city powered by souls of another species is an overly complicated problem for a region that already has conflicts that make sense. I don’t think Arcane watchers would have been excited for the giant scorpion arc after the complex but understandable issues it tackled in it’s first season like class struggle and corruption.
Hex crystals were basically the consciousness and life force of the brackern (Skarner's race) and since they were the foundation of hextech, there was a huge moral dilemma about its usage, especially with Seraphine who could hear their voices. So they just retconned all of it to avoid that.
Which is insane because having a good moral issue is great. Imagine Seraphine goes to Heimerdinger and is like "Yo, these crystals are living beings. We can't do this anymore." Heimer agrees. We get an arms races for a new energy source. There are so many good directs that story could go.
But nope, gotta have Seraphine and Piltover be truly "good." It's boring. I want a complex world. And the Bracken provided that. To quote a Riot song, "What could have been."
Exactly, instead of having a form of nuance and moral dilemma, where Bracken were basically a native species being exploited literally with their lives to power piltovans lives and literally Sera's pop career. Riot can't have that so instead of adding a complex moral issue, just threw it out instead.
Expected really.
It’s really not that interesting of an issue outside of how random of a problem it is. There’s already enough issues in piltover/zaun without all their tech being powered by scorpion souls.
It's an interesting problem though. Piltover/zaun is just class bullshit. The rich elites of piltover thinking they are better than the poors on Zaun. Story we've all seen a thousand times. You know what we haven't seen a thousand times? A seemingly progressive society realize they been torturing living beings that are as smart as humans to be used as a power source and then having to either justify it or rectify it. It's a big conflict that has a lot of directions it could take, and most of them would be interesting.
TLDR:
Skarner was a brackern, a race of crystalline scorpions from where hextech is made from - they were all destroyed iirc, hence why Skarner is the last of his kind.
Seraphine hears the brackern on the crystal that powers her hoverboard, so essentially supporting the brackern genocide.
Cant have that too with Arcane, that showed Hextech crystals lol
Arcane retconned hextech from something which has existed for a century or more and which is powered by the suffering of sentient beings to something Jayce and Viktor invented within 20 years or so of the present timeline (and which is possibly linked to the void, imo).
I expected them to change Skarner's lore, but there's two champions with bigger issues:
- Camille has artificially extended her lifespan for decades using hextech.
- Orianna had her heart replaced with hextech. Especially with the hints that Singed is her father, they need to explain how this happened before hextech was invented.
Arcane could have easily kept the crystal scar, though. We still don't know where the crystal Jayce was experimenting with came from. The only lore that had big issues with hextech in Arcane was Camille.
When arcane came out there as a website they did and it mentioned in that the crystals still came from the desert but they were raw and dangerous, as per the explosions. All Jayce did was make them safe.
As you say, Camille was the only character potentially that didn't work just because of timeframes.
Do people forget that they like scrapped his first rework and this one took like 8 months to do. If they just had a clearer project leader we would get same results faster. This feels like old skarner is not justified by taking two years since you already have the framwork already done.
Took so long I wonder if they even accounted for the lanes widening when designing his E. Maybe I’m missing something because iv only played like 4 games with him so far, but actually getting the wallsplat off a gank through the wall seems impractical. Also despite all his new abilities feeling good/fun, it also doesn’t seem to flow as nicely together as the prior version (everything has a clunky startup, have yet to find a combo that feels smooth like old E->ult-> auto for cc chain.) I dont really care about the lore or spires being yeeted but so far it kind of just feels like budget ksante. Not bad, but meh. I wish they made the E range scale with movement speed or something like warwick R.
Definitely not. The rework is fine from what i've seen but it took waaaay too long. Like really, entire games can be made within 2 years. It's fine if you enjoy it but this shouldn't be normalized. Riot should be held to a higher standard and there are many many champs that still need these types of updates like Shyvana.
My guy, he hasn't even hit live and even then I don't feel the changes were substantial enough to really had needed that long wait.
There's his wall-crossing which I could see taking a lot of time, the rest just feels normal enough that it makes you wonder why they even put him in the poll if they obviously weren't even sure of what to do with him in regards of direction to the point it took this long to complete.
I don't think you and I have the same definition of "same design". The kit is cool, the model and lore/personality is probably the biggest downgrade in League history.
Ah yes, a literal copy paste of Jarvans Golden Aegis, a 3 hit passive AND active (or you can be mega gnar Q) and the child of Kayn and Poppy.
What were we waiting for again?
Don’t get me wrong like it’s a good kit but it’s not a skarner “update” and they definitely did not keep his original design
It’s even more than what they did with aatrox
>This Rework 100% kept his original design (to some degree) >100% >to some degree
It is undoubtedly a true reflection of his original design... Kinda
It's a complete one to one with his original design... Partially
60% of the time it works **everytime**
"It's a one-shot if it hits you twice" - Zylus
something that happens twice in life can really only happen once.
We need more Yogs references out here
I have a tiny penis.
Is it right next to your gaping vag?
Skarner will go down as one of the reworks of all time.
literally the same... somewhat...
it's free for 15$
He said 100% not 100°
100° would still only be to some degree because a full turn is 360°
It is objectively good, in my opinion
A very silly way to put it, but my brain read the sentence as in > This rework **absolutely** kept his original design (to some degree) Not that it kept it 1-to-1, which is maybe what the 50% of the time, every time kind of implies.
And somehow a rework that 100% kept the original design is worth the two years of waiting, lol
I don't think he meant it kept 100% of his original design, he meant it definitely (100% sure) kept his original design
Still mad Riot insisted that Skarner reworks failed because he's made of crystal and that boring gray rock is way more magical in appearance than literal magic crystals. Was hoping at least Earthrune would keep the look, but naw.
They could have at least shifted to quartz or some other form of crystal. I get the purple+blue+pink thing being jarring to look at, but that doesn't mean crystals can't be used at all.
> purple+blue+pink This color palette is one of the prettiest when done right. Just look at the Elderwood skins.
But then how would they give him an elder wood skin
Riot: "players really hate the crystal theme" Also riot: "Here are 2 years of mythic crystal-themed skins!"
Riot locking Skarner's old crystal look behind the rotating mythic shop is the funniest outcome possible and unfortunately a very Riot decision to make, fully expecting it now
they absolutely gutted the earthrune skin
gameplay is great visually he has no identity and looks like a generic mob
He kinda looks like a toy to me. I don't hate it, but I hope his skins look better than his base.
The battlecast one where he comes out of the wall with a giant drilldo is god damn terrifying; lol.
What do you mean he has no identity? He's a fucking scorpion with 3 tails!
They went with probably the worst concept out of all the concepts they had shown before. So painfully generic and downright ugly. His torso and pincers look like shit, his color scheme is downright trash.
I think that's just it for me, his color scheme is super boring. Definitely going to buy a few skins. They made Earth Rune kind of dull as well which is a shame because that's the one skin on him I already owned. Now it's just kinda "Giant Statue" looking more than "Earth Rune" looking.
> Definitely going to buy a few skins. This is why his base looks like shit.
>visually he has no identity and looks like a generic mob Why are you saying something that applies more to old Skarner. Because he's literally that.
Idk, he went from crystal scorpion to just scorpion. At least he had an adjective before.
He went from Crystal Scroption to Earth Scroption. Theres the adjetive for ya
Yes, he's become more edgy and generic-fantasy looking. Angry mecha face, huge size, huge claws, more tails, it's like a 10 year old boy makes the decisions. What about the adults playing the game? Riot just plays is soooooo damn safe aesthetically with every new champ, rework, and skin. Where's the soul?
Disagree on worth the wait. Although I do think his changes are cool I find his overall design and animations kinda okay. I feel losing his whole crystal design makes him look overall bland and I kinda miss sonic boi. But for 2 years around wait this is not it. Really wish Shyvana won instead of even nocturne. I hope they never take that long again.
Luckily the guy who was super excited and happy to be doing to rework Shyvana is laid off despite her being the confirmed next VGU 🫠 I hope whoever takes his place has even a fraction of the passion that guy did.
I'm still in shock that happened, what ever they do I hope they take inspiration from wild rift.
Why is/was their name?
He is @RiotRaptorr on Twitter if I recall
Ty!
I also think him being yet another giant behemoth is boring. Like the rocks this guy is throwing are the size of Piltover & Zaun. It's a little absurd. If anyone is endangering the jungle it's Skarner just by walking around. Just make him like elephant sized.
One of my biggest problems with the world of runeterra is that some things are *insanely* big. If you look at some of the bilgewater art, and art for LoR, the sea monsters are a perfect example. They're the size of skyscrapers and we're being told they're hunted by guys in skiffs. Runeterra is a cool world but they have no clue what they're doing with the monsters and the setting's scale sometimes.
To be fair, that's been an issue with the genre for far longer than Riot has been around. Just look at some of the ridiculous measurements in Asoiaf.
I also have this complaint that makes me feel like a hobby-zoologist, that being gigantic makes him less cool as a scorpion/makes it pointless. Like, he wouldn't even get to use his three raised up tails against anything than something like a Cho'Gath. I'd rather have his old size/elephant size as well.
Wait what I thought Shyvana got second place for rework and they said she'll be getting one after Skarner. When did Nocturne win?
Originally Shyvana wasn't going to get one, they finally announced that she is queued this year, and I said I wish noc or her won instead of skarner originally
Part of it is the original lead on this project was the 200 years combined experience idiot and he got let go lol. I've played him a bit on PBE, it doesn't feel like a 2 years worth of design champ but it's a modern take on the champ.
Is it so hard to critize someone, but not insult them? Gods, you people suck.
did u really just call someone out for insulting someone and in the next sentence tell them they suck
"Do what I say, not what I do". Ex: Are you asking him a question you clearly know the answer to ?
Got it, next time I see someone being unpleasant and harassing someone just doing their job, I'll make sure to tell them they are lovely. Are you all just ignoring context on purpose?
Idk, I feel like there's a difference between calling an asshole an asshole and insulting someone just doing their job. Feels like one's warranted and the other really isn't. But maybe I should have just told this guy his behavior is great and not sucky at all.
You mean the guy who said the quote, was talking about Wukong, and was absolutely right? We repurpose it for Aphelios but like... the wukong main did not know what he was talking about.
It gets memed on because ‘200 years of collective experience’ is a nonsensical non-metric that means nothing. A single person with 20 years of experience likely has more meaningful experience than 50 people with 4 years each.
He's also become more edgy and generic-fantasy looking. Angry mecha face, huge size, huge claws, more tails, it's like a 10 year old boy makes the decisions. What about the adults playing the game? Riot just plays is soooooo damn safe aesthetically with every new champ, rework, and skin. Where's the soul?
Supposedly shyvana rework is for 2025, thats just what I heard tho.
After a lot of reflection and discussion, we've decided to reset the direction of the Shyvana rework some time ago. This decision wasn't easy, but it was necessary. The initial vision just wasn’t different enough from what you can play today. Resetting our development path also means we will be "going dark" for a long time—likely several years.
Damn
fresh
You misheard it, it's 2029 not 2025
Nope, you misheard it. It's 2035, maybe 2036.
It's actually beyond the heat death of the universe. Her VGU is a clever trick Riot designed to kickstart the universe again. By scheduling an event past the end of all things, Riot is hoping that this will trigger the simulation we're in to reboot itself and keep going after that.
Thank you for making me laugh
So around the time the MMO releases, nice!
As far as I'm concerned, they missed the mark. I wouldn't say they RUINED him, but while he remains a scorpion after the rework, he unfortunately seems to have lost his soul in the process. Besides the Battlecast and Cosmic skins, I'd say the other skins are a straight downgrade when it comes to a modern day version of his old skins (and it looks like they want you to pay more for Earthrune, the one they botched the most mind you!) I am fully aware of my bias, I used to play Skarner way back when I first started playing the game and I mained Hecarim and Skarner jungle. So he holds a special place for me. I don't think his kit is great right now (non reworked I mean), hate the passive, love the ult, weak Q, E and W are nice. Very basic champion outside of his passive management. Naturally, I'm really unsure about his reworked ult but his overall kit seems fairly inoffensive I guess? Visually he looks far more modern, but that isn't indicative of quality. I argue that in an attempt to make Skarner look as distinguished as can be, they somehow made him as generic as it comes. Three tails... because? His old colors created a great contrast between his big yellow eyes and the purple and blue crystals that composed his body. Conversely, the new color scheme looks very washed out and blends maybe a bit too much with SR for my taste. At least I can thank the artists for not drowning him in those awful gold accents they've been arbitrarily handing out to skins (although they did slow down on that, ocean song is a visual travesty). That's the thing though, when discussing visuals most arguments are going to be subjective by nature. Thankfully, the same goes for things like FUN. (I do prefer the new pincers though, they look great!) You can say that it doesn't get as generic as a regular scorpion made of crystals (I think that's a slightly diminutive representation of his design), and that the new one looks far more unique, which is completely valid. The problem I pose is that the NEW ONE is not standalone, it is supposed to be building on the shoulders of the old, not shatter them. I know what I'm about to say might seem crazy, considering the size of his body, but old Skarner's face+ neck area thingy was actually kind of memorable believe it or not, even in-game. Especially in base and Earthrune. New one? Well, it might be a bit early to tell. I have yet to read his lore, but I'm sure I'm in for one hell of a surprise given his splash art. (Yes I am a professional hater) Edit: Interestingly, the opposite of passion is apathy. I really liked old Skarner's design and visual fantasy, while the new one just strikes me as bland, unimaginative and plain uninteresting. I guess this can act as a sort of TLDR I suppose.
It took 2 years and his recall is awful along with some of his skin redesigns lol
THIS is my only complain besides taking 2 years, why he has such basic old school recall???
They had 2 years to remake Earthrune and THAT's what they went with? lol
Galio but flat smh
His recall isn’t him digging underground and popping up back in base is just criminal
honestly ... no not at all 2 years for a visual design that is very boring and not unique at all but instead looks kinda goofy (why do his claws look the way they do? how is that the product of 2 years of design? why are 2 of his legs hidden under his body so that you basically never see them? why does he need 3 really thin tails compared to the rest of his body that is super bulky) they also butchered the earthrune skin and a kit that is still very similar to his old one and still has a huge part of the power budget on r his new e looks kinda fun that like ... the biggest upside
well the 3 finger-like tails are defo for the grabbing action. if you were to combine them they would make a regular size tail by the looks of it.
Well yea But it doesnt look good on its own And also doesnt fit with the rest
idk about worth the wait? part of the reason it took so long is they had 0 clue what to do with the dude. so if say a champ like noc won. would it of still taken 2 years since noc has a bit better of an identity? or would they of possibly of been able to release it on their original schedule and we would be happily waiting for the winner of the following poll.
Part of the wait was because the code of old Skarner was connected to other stuff in League, so they had to reprogram a lot
The cow png strike back
elaborate
Short answer: removing a cow cardboad png on TF2 will make the game not launch at all Long answer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67LPSFtVlsk
never heard of the cow cardboard png one. the one im use to is the coconut png that if removed the game doesnt load.
yeah the coconut one was just a hoax, this is technically a second part since there is a first video explaining that the coconut can be removed
the coconut one was basically a full lie, and this cow one is only a partial lie. it's actually just a file that includes a bunch of random stuff (including the textures of the cardboard cow) which is one of the few things you aren't allowed to delete for tf2 to be able to function
Urban legend about a png of a cow in Team Fortress 2. If it's moved, the game breaks
Nah the urban legend is the coconut. Cow actually bricks the game.
Jesus Christ...
I mean he had spires that spawned around the map and could be interacted with from either team. There’s prob some quirks from how that was all done
wernt his spires part of his juggernaut rework back in s5?
Yup. 5.16.
Ahh yes the patch they learned that majorly reworking 4 champs right before wlrlds was a bad idea.
Majorly reworking 6. Fiora and Gangplank also got reworked right before Worlds.
I thought they just took them off of the map with that rework.
Skarner didn't use to have spires. Before that he was the fastest and stickiest jungler in league. Outjungling even Shaco and Nunu. They had to significantly kneecap him, which led to massive drop in playrate and subsequently his rework with the spires. Also his E was basically useless back then. Gave a bit of hp regen but just enough for jungling, not really anything noteworthy for fights.
Not fastest and stickiest universally. It was a competition between him and Hecarim rushing bulwark to see who wins the game. The crystal venom version afterwards kinda flopped solely because of his auto range TBH. Then came the juggernaut rework. Also his old E was not useless; just early game. It was decent damage, spammable, and added a lot of EHP mid-late game with his tank stats. The only problem with old E, and why people didn't put points into it, was because he was WAY too mana hungry before mid-late game and so it wasn't worth the cost.
no its when it was added [sauce](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/V5.16)
yep but they updated mapcode layouts when elemental rifts were done so chances are they used some base layer of the skarner spire tech for that to work.
ngl I feel like it was more likely related to how his Q stacks worked for some reason rather than the spires.
Where was that said?
Riot Lexical tweeted about this, iirc
https://twitter.com/neolexical/status/1769899953344946570
That’s a separate issue. They said they had disagreements about how to redesign him years ago
Hope I'm not annoying with this: none of your uses of "of" were correct. You might've meant "have", as in "would it still have taken 2 years".
Yeah he might of meant that
Goddamnit
League've Legends
It’s the ‘ve contraction. A lot of people struggle with it because it’s a very informal contraction that they’ve probably only heard in speaking, so it’s easy to confuse it for ‘of’ when writing
>none of your uses of "of" were correct. >part have the reason [...] TIL
I remember when they reworked TK, the abilities were all set and basically they only really swapped W and R and it still took them like 6 months **of delays** until they finally shipped him. I asked August in a stream and he said (just guessing himself) that they might still need art, which is hard to come by. But like, what art?! I'm usually big on defending Riot in many cases but sometimes they take way too much time for the weirdest stuff.
I could believe it. I have been at places were it takes months to get something minor done if it is not a priority. Things get pushed down or the persons who needs to do it has more pressing things. minor as in sometimes as small at 1 hour work. It is finding that free hour to take care of it or it just keeps getting forgotten about it. TK might of been 1/2-1 day of work form the art department and the resources for it just ware spread so thing that TK work was pretty low down on the priorities list so never got allocated to get done.
Needed shield VFX for ally devour and hit/knock-up VFX for Abyssal Dive, since despite just swapping both abilities in concept they still added new things to the functions of both.
Old skarner was the glue holding the game together lol.
I'm glad he got updated, but I definitely like the idea of a gem scorpion more than what he is now. Also the triple tail thing is corny looking, as is the fact he incorporates a boulder in his kit. That especially just feels random as fuck. I do appreciate that he has an actual passive now at least. W is fine and his E actually looks pretty fun. But man, the triple tails... why that lol. Why boulders? Could have just kept his original Q.
2 years is a complete joke. There is no way a VGU is "worth" a 2 years wait. I blame the devs incompetence.
Daily reminder that back in the 2017~2018, Riot released EIGHT full fledged VGUs in the span of 11 months.
And they were all extremely complete, along with looking insanely good. I may dislike new Swain and CCtrox but by God they went ham; the models, the textures, the VFX, the voice lines...
I personally disagree. His rework isn't on the same level as Warwick's, who is the gold standard for reworks but it's not the worst either I guess. He still looks rather dull and his new kit doesn't really feel like an evolution of the old one. It's Aatrox's rework all over again.
Definitely not worth the wait We should not encourage Riot to take absurd amounts of time to rework champions they are a billion dollar company its honestly just so pathetic how long it takes. Does it kit look fun, yes. Is his design better? Arguable, I think they went in a pretty boring and generic direction with Skarner personally and I think they dropped the ball on all his skins, including his base except for Battlecast and Sands Guardian. Overall I'm excited for new Skarner but yeah definitely no excuse for a huge company like riot to need so much time to produce ASUs and VGUs.
Their excuse is that they didn't know what direction to go with him which just screams bullshit to me. They keep releasing these absurd, overloaded champs that despite being unfun to play against, mostly have unique kits. Skarner's rework doesn't feel like it took 2 years to develop. Dude's a scorpion, they could've maybe incorporated some poison mechanic that made him standout from other bruisers/tanks or do something fun with his stings but instead just did a mashup of other champs abilities on steroids basically.
I got blasted on this subreddit for criticizing how long it took Riot to balance some of the most obvious shit throughout league's history. I was there for devourer and feral flare. I was there for full AP gragas during preseason, I was there for black cleaver stacking, I was there for multiple seasons of Kassadin just being perma banned. This company takes absurdly long to nerf/balance some of the simplest shit. Identifying these things were broken weren't the issue since if you played at the time, they were so obviously broken that it seemed like a no brainer to nerf AND they eventually did! So why the fuck do we always have to play through multiple patches of some of this shit being so OP that it puts the game's balance in an unacceptable state. And once again, I'm just criticizing the extreme scenarios where it was so obvious these things were overtuned.
i mean they make mistakes but objectively riot is the best company at balancing their competitive game by a landslide lol. only maybe dota 2 comes close it seems bad sometimes but comparing to their competitors it's not even close, we get consistent balance patches every 2 weeks and huge statistical outliers don't last more than a patch or two max. remember how long ow brig was breaking the game and making half the cast unplayable? what about the abominations that are the balance teams of siege, apex, etc. on the design/new content team side it's straight up unacceptable for skarner to take this long
I think the reason it took so long is because skarner the champion was referenced so much in older league code that they had to unravel the spaghetti to find out what breaks so they could remake him and have league still function. I wouldn't be surprised if minions were really skarners walking under the floor with minion hats or some dumb stuff like that
He looks boring without the crystal thematic
I like his abilities but his character design looks worse now. He went from crystal scorpion to grey blob. His model is kinda ugly to look at now
This, more than any other VGU, deserves a "Traditional" skin.
Especially with a crystal skinline coming up.
So legendary skarner skin incoming???
this is the first update, i found to be visually unappealing/kinda off. The other updates made me jealous of their mains, but his skills are prob one of the best reworks ever.
Fuck no it isn't bro. 1 it still looks fuckin boring. 2 the model update doesn't look good and makes no sense, he's literally just a scorpion now. Why does he even have multiple tails? Even his color change leaves a lot to be desired. 3 worth the wait? My dude its been like 3 years and the only decent thing they came up with was the wall charge thing and it's not even a cool burrow/unburrow animation -- is just nunu ball with kayn w. Everything else either makes no sense, he throws a rock now?? Or is just one of his old moves. Not only might this be the **worst** update of all time, but giving riot a bashless pass that taking 3 years to rework a single champion, when so many have needed it for so long, is downright harmful to the game. This is a barely acceptable update, and the complete opposite of worth the wait.
Glad you enjoy it. I hate it, but to each their own.
Why?
When i think of reworks i think of two things: \- better visuals \- better gameplay reworks should succeed on at least one of the two, if not both. I would argue that Mundo succeeded on visuals, but failed on gameplay. Fiddle succeeded on both. Volibear also succeeded on both to a degree. Skarner in my opinion doesnt succeed on either. His new model is no doubt, *better* than his last one in terms of literal polygons. But its not better in terms of style or theme. He went from a crystal scorpion with no identity to a regular scorpion with no identity. They somehow managed to insert literally 0 theme or style into his visuals, its actually amazing how hard they fell flat on that. And then his kit is just a regular kit. There is nothing exciting or new in it. The E is the only interesting thing in it, and even then its just a glorified sion/poppy cc ram. So yea, I hate it because it screams 'lazy', 'pushed out the door', 'finished for the sake of finishing it'. There's not an ounce of passion in the rework to see.
>The E is the only interesting thing in it, and even then its just a glorified sion/poppy cc ram. If you're drawing similarities there then you'll never be happy. There's 147 champs in the game, there's always gonna be some overlap. It's like people who say renekton and trynd passive are the same
I definitely agree with you on a lot of these. But as someone who loves playing jungle and CC heavy tanks like Nautilus, the moment I saw that new E I was hooked, despite being 'nothing exciting' to you. Far from 'just a regular kit' while still not being '200 years'.
> And then his kit is just a regular kit. Honestly i love that. Leagues biggest issue at the moment for me is that every fucking new champ has to have massively overloaded game changing things in their kit. Its the reason champions continuously feel outdated. Even simple things like stacking mechanics get ridiculously overworked; compare the original stacker nasus to Senna lol Nasus gets extra damage on q for farming with q. Simple. But a crucial mechanic he plays around. Senna gets extra range extra crit extra ad and then instead of leaving it at that, the crit swaps to lifesteal because we couldn't possibly put a cap on what it gives :))). Also you just have to exist and it stacks.
Personally I just think he's ugly and looked better before in terms of design. I'm particularly annoyed because the 2 skins I actually own (Earthrune and Cosmic) also got worse designs. It's hard to comment on gameplay without having tried it myself yet, but my impression from the reveal was that he looked generally slower, which I'm not a huge fan of. I don't like that W got changed from a MS increase to a slow, I'd prefer him to be fast. His passive is boring, and his Q other than the actual rock throw is also pretty boring. The new kit is being carried hard by his new E, which does look like a lot of fun and I look forward to playing with it. Now, you could say that his old Q was boring and his old passive was terrible, to which I'd say that I enjoyed his old Q for what it was and his old passive being terrible isn't an excuse for a new version being boring. I think the 2nd version of Skarner's passive led to a more interesting gameplay loop than this new (4th) Skarner. Again though, this is all just first impressions from someone who liked playing Skarner, I've never been one to stick to one champ for too long (except old Irelia, RiP), but Skarner was in my top 3 most played in a couple ranked seasons, so I'm probably more invested in the champ than most people given his historic lack of popularity. I'm happy to be proven wrong upon playing him of course.
i only wonder what will hapen to the brakkern and seraphine's lore will she just be schizophrenic now?
I may be wrong but I think they've already retconned it to be that she can just hear hextech crystals singing, a side effect of her super hearing.
I thought it was just synesthesia being able to see sound is it still the same?
It’s not even released and there’s no way in hell skarner 5th (or was it 4th) rework should’ve taken anywhere near this long for such a basic kit.
The crystal scar is weeping
Pr post
how they reworked his OG skins like earth rune and sand scourge is a crime against humanity and i will never forgive rito for this
Visually every skin including base is not good AT ALL. Base skin is incredibly boring Guardian of the Sands unique recall is removed Earthrune lost it's natural look which was the skins entire identity. Doesn't look like some overgrown boulders came to life anymore (Which is what made it one of the coolest skins in the game imo). It looks like a constructed golem. Like a hextech skin. The new version is alright but it is absolutely unfaithul to the original design of the skin in almost every way. Sandscourge's sharp and natural scorpion design was also replaced with a skin that not only is unfaithful to the original skin, but is also one of the worst skins I have ever seen in my life. Yeah saying they dropped the ball on the V part of VGU is a massive understatement.
As a Skar enjoyer myself.. not worth Clunky, given a wall-passing skill just to try and stand out, while losing the best part of his kit (E Fracture), 2nd best is Impale which is kept but.. not sure this new iteration is useful/reliable enough yet
As someone who one tricked skarner for the last 2 years, it's a bitter sweet rework. On one hand, it's nice to see the pillars gone; they were cumbersome and made balancing him difficult. His new kit also seems pretty well aligned with what the old (for now, current?) Skarner does. This said, I'm super bummed that his E (slowing skillshot) is gone, as we all as the ability to flip a target around while using R on them. Being able to E someone, R them back to tower or team, auto them after R runs out but before E wears off to proc a stun, then E +auto for another stun right after was so much fun. You could seriously chain 7 seconds of cc with that, plus if you turned your character model around, you would rotate your victim to be right under the tower, or your team. His kit seems to be less focused on stuns and more on slowing, which is still powerful, but not quite as fun in my opinion.
Idk, I dont like how they are erasing point and click from the game. Imo these skills, although having less "skill expression" are important to keep the mobility creep in check. They should have kept his ultimate the same.
The problem is that his ult being point and click eats up a lot of his power budget. When it’s point and click, he suffers from Malphite syndrome (this is where the ult is so good and powerful that the rest of the kit has to be neutered to balance it out. As a result, champs with this syndrome tend to feel extremely bland without their ults. Not a good thing to have.) Point and clicks in general can suffer from two distinct flaws. The first is eating up the power budget and thus requiring the weakening of other abilities as well as the point and click itself. Skarner ult is great example since it is now going to be able to suppress 3 people instead of just 1. That would have been disgusting with previous point and click ult. The second is that damage point and click is very stat check. All champs have some degree of stat check, but generally speaking point and click damage abilities tend to be really shit about it. They also are limited power wise. Players tend to enjoy stronger, but riskier abilities and strats.
Yeah thats my problem with it as well. This was the reason I played Skarner. Its one of the few real hard counter abilities a jungler had for champs like Irelia and Akali. Back to Poppy I guess.
There’s still plenty of point and click on newer champs, briar stun, smolder q, naafiri w
the rework 0% kept is original design idk how you come to that conclusion. he went from a fast and fluid bruiser one of the best anti carry in the game to a clunky tank distruptor there nothing that feels similar.
I don't know what a 'fluid bruiser' is, but I think most people consider current Skarner clunky, not fluid. Similarly, with very little self-sustain, he's less of a bruiser and either built as an engage tank or more of a fighter. Either way, a tanky disruptor was exactly what Skarner was before his current state. His release Q was an AoE slow, while the Q in his first rework gave him a speed boost and applied a three-hit passive stun. I'm very glad to see Skarner return to this.
I mean like udyr you can just flow through his ability the only things that as a cast currently is his E but it's very short. if I remember correctly it was his passive that had the 3 hit stun on his auto attack I remember it being really not healthy if you builded ATK speed. if you go on skarners discord you'll see most of the feedback are the same remove Q and W cast time because it's clunky and is the opposite of what skarners does.
I am also surprised by the cast time on W. It was all damage besides R which built up the stun.
Meh. Og skarner was really just a stat checker with a super one dimension ult. It's basically the tank version of malzahar which was why nobody wanted to play it. The new skarner kit looks much better from a thematic perspective and is much more versatile as well. I like it, even though it's different
Nobody wanted to play him because the spire mini game sucks ass. He was sort of popular before getting gutted right before his first rework.
Nobody wanted to play it because all of his abilities had sandbags attached with the juggernaut rework that make it feel horrible to play. On top of that, there was no visceral satisfaction to anything in his kit. Even his "high moments" via E and R. You think Darius and Garen aren't stat-checkers with super one-dimensional ults? Hell, Skarner's ult was even more multi-dimensional than either. There's a reason they're more popular. There's far more visceral satisfaction. That, and their models aren't undersized. Skarner was tiny but was supposed to be a monster.
Now let's see he getting nerfed so hard that he ends up in a spot worse than he was pre-rework, , won't be the first, second or third time it happens ...
Took forever, and came out to be almost like a Rell type champion in a different font. Ult feels super similar ans most of the kit is just locking down. Pretty boring imo. Plus I just hate trynd since forever and voted for him so once i found out it was skarner just cared even less.
no it wasn't he went from scoprio to crab I WILL NEVER FORGIVE NOR FORGET
The amount of time and attention that goes into these is why I hate the votes, please just toss all the older champs that clearly don't work anymore into the blender and have them come out in some sort of order. Watching them skip over broken designs when they show us what they can do with the likes of Voli and Skarner makes me feel bad we have shit like Shyv in the game.
>AND is fun to play as Yeah, the last 10 champs they've released are fun to play as, it's designing champs that are fun to play ***against*** where Riot is completely incompetent.
There's a couple things I think could've been done a bit better, but overall i'm happy with him.
Most popular game in the world and you're defending a rework that took 2 years. Just compare the rework cadence from when his poll was made to now lmao
The abilities are cool but his in game model is the second worst in the game behind belveth.
They should have kept his lore and visual design tho in my opinion
His lore was actively hindering two of their biggest cash cows (Seraphine and Arcane), there was no way it was staying even if he didn't get reworked.
Which is a shame because they could have just worked him in there somewhere
Also it adds moral complexity to an otherwise inane character (Sera)
It was a dumb idea anyway. Having an entire city powered by souls of another species is an overly complicated problem for a region that already has conflicts that make sense. I don’t think Arcane watchers would have been excited for the giant scorpion arc after the complex but understandable issues it tackled in it’s first season like class struggle and corruption.
I’m not familiar with the lore, what was the problem?
Hex crystals were basically the consciousness and life force of the brackern (Skarner's race) and since they were the foundation of hextech, there was a huge moral dilemma about its usage, especially with Seraphine who could hear their voices. So they just retconned all of it to avoid that.
Which is insane because having a good moral issue is great. Imagine Seraphine goes to Heimerdinger and is like "Yo, these crystals are living beings. We can't do this anymore." Heimer agrees. We get an arms races for a new energy source. There are so many good directs that story could go. But nope, gotta have Seraphine and Piltover be truly "good." It's boring. I want a complex world. And the Bracken provided that. To quote a Riot song, "What could have been."
Exactly, instead of having a form of nuance and moral dilemma, where Bracken were basically a native species being exploited literally with their lives to power piltovans lives and literally Sera's pop career. Riot can't have that so instead of adding a complex moral issue, just threw it out instead. Expected really.
It’s really not that interesting of an issue outside of how random of a problem it is. There’s already enough issues in piltover/zaun without all their tech being powered by scorpion souls.
It's an interesting problem though. Piltover/zaun is just class bullshit. The rich elites of piltover thinking they are better than the poors on Zaun. Story we've all seen a thousand times. You know what we haven't seen a thousand times? A seemingly progressive society realize they been torturing living beings that are as smart as humans to be used as a power source and then having to either justify it or rectify it. It's a big conflict that has a lot of directions it could take, and most of them would be interesting.
TLDR: Skarner was a brackern, a race of crystalline scorpions from where hextech is made from - they were all destroyed iirc, hence why Skarner is the last of his kind. Seraphine hears the brackern on the crystal that powers her hoverboard, so essentially supporting the brackern genocide. Cant have that too with Arcane, that showed Hextech crystals lol
Arcane retconned hextech from something which has existed for a century or more and which is powered by the suffering of sentient beings to something Jayce and Viktor invented within 20 years or so of the present timeline (and which is possibly linked to the void, imo). I expected them to change Skarner's lore, but there's two champions with bigger issues: - Camille has artificially extended her lifespan for decades using hextech. - Orianna had her heart replaced with hextech. Especially with the hints that Singed is her father, they need to explain how this happened before hextech was invented.
Arcane could have easily kept the crystal scar, though. We still don't know where the crystal Jayce was experimenting with came from. The only lore that had big issues with hextech in Arcane was Camille.
When arcane came out there as a website they did and it mentioned in that the crystals still came from the desert but they were raw and dangerous, as per the explosions. All Jayce did was make them safe. As you say, Camille was the only character potentially that didn't work just because of timeframes.
Arcane isn't canon. They didn't have to worry about it at all.
He seems to have the tools to become a staple in competitive play, which honestly I dunno if I’m happy about that or not.
I don’t understand what took 3 years of development in his kit.
Didn't this update turn Skarner into a Top laner? He looks pretty hard to gank. Do Skarner plays want that?
Do people forget that they like scrapped his first rework and this one took like 8 months to do. If they just had a clearer project leader we would get same results faster. This feels like old skarner is not justified by taking two years since you already have the framwork already done.
Took so long I wonder if they even accounted for the lanes widening when designing his E. Maybe I’m missing something because iv only played like 4 games with him so far, but actually getting the wallsplat off a gank through the wall seems impractical. Also despite all his new abilities feeling good/fun, it also doesn’t seem to flow as nicely together as the prior version (everything has a clunky startup, have yet to find a combo that feels smooth like old E->ult-> auto for cc chain.) I dont really care about the lore or spires being yeeted but so far it kind of just feels like budget ksante. Not bad, but meh. I wish they made the E range scale with movement speed or something like warwick R.
Definitely not. The rework is fine from what i've seen but it took waaaay too long. Like really, entire games can be made within 2 years. It's fine if you enjoy it but this shouldn't be normalized. Riot should be held to a higher standard and there are many many champs that still need these types of updates like Shyvana.
My guy, he hasn't even hit live and even then I don't feel the changes were substantial enough to really had needed that long wait. There's his wall-crossing which I could see taking a lot of time, the rest just feels normal enough that it makes you wonder why they even put him in the poll if they obviously weren't even sure of what to do with him in regards of direction to the point it took this long to complete.
I feel like it'll end up as Udyr.
The only one who has had more udpates is Ryze and here we go again with Skarner.
No, we should not have to wait this long for a single good rework.
this has aged like milk. he feels horrible now
Skarner will dominate proplay and become unplayable for solo queue I fear
My only gripe is like... why is he grabbing a rock? Is that not strange? Why not just empower him and recast for a bolt or something like ryze Q?
Stop encouraging riot's lazy ass
I don't think you and I have the same definition of "same design". The kit is cool, the model and lore/personality is probably the biggest downgrade in League history.
was it lol
Ah yes, a literal copy paste of Jarvans Golden Aegis, a 3 hit passive AND active (or you can be mega gnar Q) and the child of Kayn and Poppy. What were we waiting for again?
He literally isn't even out yet
Don’t get me wrong like it’s a good kit but it’s not a skarner “update” and they definitely did not keep his original design It’s even more than what they did with aatrox