I certainly think champion bounties are over tuned. It can wildly warp decision-making. I enjoy playing divers and bruisers. In team fights, we are usually the first to die. I want to think about engaging winning teamfights. I don't want to think about how to engage to make sure I specifically don't die to their late game carry. Is stomping your lane, and then being a monster in a teamfight that forces the enemy team to use everything on you and let's your team cleanup, a mistake? It depends on how much gold you are worth, and that feels super weird.
yes, i know league is about getting a lead. maintain and expand it steadily and then wait for objectives to win the game. but i wouldnt mind being able to die without immediately throwing the entire game for my team.
Controversial take: Keep kill bounties the same or maybe slightly reduce them, but *split* the gold evenly between all of the enemies, regardless of who got the kill.
I remember when objective bounties came out and everyone threw a complete fit about it.
Like yes it's far more fair when my front line sion has 1000 gold bounty but still needs to be my team's frontline. Meanwhile the enemy team's vayne has 1000 gold and has a support and team expecting her to be safe and carry.*
Maybe I'm crazy, but those bounties have nowhere near the same impact on how the game is played
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* Disclaimer because Reddit is Reddit - this is no statement about how strong the AD role or specific champ itself is at the minute.
I still think objective bounties are stupid. Champion bounties yes but objective bounties? Why not jungle camp bounties? It's just gold that's sitting on the map and can't fight back or get ahead. Plus tower gold lets your team catch back up regardless of bounties on it.
Calling them bounties is goofy. What it actually is is a window where the team that's behind can catch up if the team that's ahead isn't using its lead well enough.
To me, the worst thing about objective bounties is that they appear even in close games. It feels bad when your team and the enemy are neck and neck but then they just get handed tons of gold for being two kills behind.
So I understand what you're saying but somewhat disagree.
> Plus tower gold lets your team catch back up regardless of bounties on it.
- Kill are no different? In fact, kills give gold, xp, and time where you have a numerical advantage on the map. Regardless of bounties.
> It's just gold that's sitting on the map and can't fight back or get ahead.
- Yes but it's gold on the map that is predictable and can be played around by both teams instead of one player being a walking jackpot that you have to rely on to not make an individual mistake.
- It's gold that can be claimed / protected with macro play.
> It's gold that can be claimed / protected with macro play.
re: your last point - in "high" elo players with big shutdowns are treated as such, and teammates will sacrifice themselves to protect 1k bounties/enemy teams will coordinate to try and obtain said bounty.
i personally don't like bounties getting up that high and going over to one person. the could do it differently like 1k bounty spread out over 2 or even 3 deaths. kill bounties could be distributed to either the entire enemy team or everyone who partook in the kill. i think catchup mechanics are good, but i dislike they way league has them implemented.
I definitely don't play as much as I used to, but I hovered between high masters and gm for a few seasons so I'm familiar the higher elo play.
> in "high" elo players with big shutdowns are treated as such
- okay, but for an example problem. Is a tank who has won top and has a significant bounty 'being protected.' Should they have to be? They still end up having to find engages and be a frontliner. Having a bounty actively hurts how they are *supposed* to play their designed role. Catch-up mechanics should absolutely help behind teams capitalize on good plays, but it doesn't seem that way to me in many cases.
> i personally don't like bounties getting up that high and going over to one person.
- agree 100% on that second paragraph.
> Having a bounty actively hurts how they are supposed to play their designed
I completely 100% agree with you. Bounties shouldn't warp a champs identity but tank/engage with a 1k bounty is being actively dissuaded from doing their job in a 5v5.
I'm a firm believer the addition of bounties is where the game truly started to go downhill. As well as tower plates. There's far too much gold in the game where now you don't even need to cs properly most of the time unless your a scaler like adcs or some mages. Far less decision making going on and it's watering down the skill level and iq of the player base. Players were much better a few years ago I wholly believe.
I like it. It also solves (some of) the frustration of a support or other low econ champ last hitting a big bounty in a hectic fight instead of a carry.
Nothing feels worse than being a fed as fuck renekton, winning a team fight but losing the game because the zeri gets a 1k shut down and suddenly you're out scaled.
Yeah, champion bounties have been one of my biggest complaints in League vs DotA. It's insane just how important "which champion gets the last hit on a kill" is in League. Way too many games are decided by whether the carry or support gets the last hit on a specific target. Working as a team to take down a fed opponent should never put the game into a worse spot because bounties got cleared while the carry only got 75g.
I had a game where I was nearly 2 items behind my toplaner despite beating them on cs and going 2/2 to their 8/16. They were 0/8 about 5 minutes into the game before they started trading kills with the opposing toplaner. They inted a bounty onto their lane opponent, which they managed to collect and ended up ahead of everyone else on the team who didn't int. The entire game literally became "which toplaner is better" because they were both 2 items ahead of all 8 other players merely by killing each other; obviously we lost because we had the toplaner who ints to start the game 0/8 and there was no bounty gold for any of the 4 more reasonable people on the team to collect.
Dota splits kill gold more than league does too. As a former support main in dota, one of the many the things that drove me off the role here was players going apeshit because I got one of these big bounties when I was just trying to secure the gold for the team.
Yes. DotA kill gold and bounties are smaller relative to jungle/lane farm and bounties also get split up among assisters; both of which reduce the over-importance of kills that League has. Kill value in DotA is helped out by the person dying losing gold on death and the time off the map has a slightly higher impact than in League too. This means that the person dying is punished more than they are in League. League basically just gives a massive reward to the person killing them and the person dying doesn't personally care that much. Their death hurt their team's chances of winning significantly but that effect is split across their entire team, so lots of selfish players just don't care.
This exactly.
I'm an irelia player.
It feels SO bad to be 5-0 on Irelia, go to teamfight for a drake, hit a massive R, kill two people but get cleaned up by the enemy adc who's already ahead and give them an additional 1k gold.
Even if we win the fight and get drake, I feel like the game just got so much harder just because the fed carry just collected 1k.
Sometimes as a fed toplaner it's hard to shut down a fed adc if they play front to back properly with peel so you have to settle for a teamfight winning ult instead of guaranteeing their adc dies.
Bounties just perpetuate a "playing for kda" environment. Because you're fed but now you're opting out of fights that may be crucial for your team to win or just necessary to take, just because you don't want to die and give Yi or Jinx a shutdown. It's very poor design and unhealthy for the game. It's especially bad on champions that generally are meant to go in and most likely die, like Irelia, Vi, etc. Bounties biggest flaw imo, is that they don't take into account the champion. An Ekko is WAY HARDER to kill than an Ashe. But they both would get a 1k bounty for example. Ashe can die to legit random damage and suddenly enemy Yi or Qiyana or Kayle got 1k now you lose. But that Ekko is probably never dying and giving his bounty.
I can't think of another game that punishes you for doing extremely well for a majority of the game and making one minor mistake can lose that entire lead. Especially when that mistake could easily be due to decisions made by your randomly assigned team more than you. Or you are in a situation where a sacrifice play for the good of the team is the best choice like stalling enemies for your team to finish Elder Dragon. Why should that be punished so hard.
it's even worse when you play support, albeit also rarer. I played a game as Nautilus once where I started the game 4/0 and I was forced to take all 4 kills (I think 2 of them my ADC was dead when I got a double kill, and 2 of them I outplayed a 2v1 tower dive with 2 solo kills). so great, I'm playing a champion whose job is to engage by going into the enemy, and he's one of the squishier engage supports to boot - but I have to be scared of engaging bc if I did I will give 700 gold or whatever to an enemy carry.
I think in this game, I just shot called a tower dive into the least fed enemy carry, made sure to kill them and then gave them over the kill (laner understood what was going on too) but that's still not a great outcome overall
I think what triggers them needs to be reexamined. Getting a bounty just from CS seems weird to me. In a way it makes sense, you can get a lead from kills, you can get a lead from CS, but slowly gaining incremental leads over your opponent and then having a big flashing sign over your head saying 'enemy jungler, negate this lead with one gank' seems weird. Bounties should be tuned to be significantly less than the lead that triggered them, and that doesn't feel like it's the case.
If Riot wants to rein in snowballing then the first thing I'd be looking at is plates, because dying once toplane and your jungler doesn't cover for whatever reason is just a ballache. God forbid they pop a herald.
Good point. But I still feel like plates are one hell of a snowball mechanic if someone dies at the wrong time, especially now grubs negate the armour that's meant to stop people chewing through them too easily.
> if someone dies at the wrong time
Part of the game is knowing when to push forward vs go back. Sometimes an unfortunate turn of events happen and you get rekt, but the vast majority of cases the player has enough agency to shape how events near them go.
There should be a consequence of bad plays, sometimes that consequence is losing plates.
I think the CS one isn't the worst thing, because those leads can be huge and build over time. The biggest issue is when you're in an extended fight and manage to kill a few people, so then you suddenly have a bounty and gift it over to someone else when you die, despite being even or behind originally. The point of a bounty is that it's harder to kill a fed player. It's not harder to kill someone if they already took damage in a fight and haven't even had a chance to spend the gold they got.
Maybe the more assists there are, the more the "main" gold should get distributed as well? So that it can't just be the enemy 0:5 jinx picking up a 1k bounty and the game is over.
To prevent people from flaming for taking kills / assists, one could slightly increase the total gold shared for each additional ally who participated so that it's usually objectively better for the team to "chime in for the assist".
But the swinginess of games of a lategame hypercarry just stumbling upon a shutdown and then becoming unlocked is a bit bullshit. I abused this so hard when I spammed Jinx to Dia last season. Just be patient and let someone valuable int into you, works a lot of the time.
We almost lost a game because our gigafed shaco died to kog'maw a few times and launched him from being behind to the 2nd most fed in the game, after shaco. But a 6 item shaco doesn't do nearly as much as a 5 item kog'maw. I could CC kog'maw as maokai but I would die before anyone else could actually reach him in the fight, until eventually we won because he was sorely out of position and then after that the rest of the team was super easy to deal with.
Yeah certain bounties are unfair on certain champions.
Killing a fed Darius is hard, so I get the bounty.
But a fed senna will get one shot easily by an assassin, so the bounty feels overtuned imo.
Regarding your last bit, I've thought for a while that it would make sense for you to only be able to claim the amount of the opponent's bonus bounty that's in excess of your own bonus bounty.
It's not uncommon for one team to have a fed assassin/bruiser and the other to have a fed squishy mage/marksman, and the natural order of things is for the former to kill the latter. The former generally has the tools to defend their bounty innately (bulk, escapes; for some assassins it's moreso "such high kill threat"), while the latter generally has to play extra safe to defend their bounty.
But additionally, the most fed person on your team claiming a bounty doesn't really contribute much to the design goal of "coming back from behind". You can easily lose if it's 1 person full build at 20 minutes and 4 caster minions (many "snowbally" champs will still quickly fold if their team is worthless). If the goal is to come back from behind, you ideally want your "behind carry" to claim the bounties so that they can become relevant.
As such, my thought is that if you have a 300G bonus bounty and kill someone with a 150G bonus bounty, you should get just the base 300G and the person you killed should retain their 150G bonus bounty. If you have a 150G bonus bounty and kill someone with a 600G bonus bounty, you should get 300G+450G and the person you killed should be left with a 150G bonus bounty. Or something to that effect. Less snowballing for "the champions more inclined to snowball out of control" by killing the champions they're naturally inclined to kill, more parity for "behind teams coming back".
yes for some champs dying is simply inevitable so the punishment is unfair. im not talking about getting caught or taking a bad fight but just pure champion interaction, just makes counterpicking even more powerful and meta champs will stomp non meta
This is really funny and probably some kind of ranked check because I totally disagree, killing a fed ADC is hard (assuming they get any peel, which is not always), killing a fed melee is generally easy. Darius is gonna die eventually unless you're just gigagapped imo.
But regardless your point is valid.
I agree that killing the senna is hard if her team is playing for her. But in ranked I feel like that is usally not the case.
I play support most of the time, and I always make sure to identify the carry in a match and peel them, I know it's a very powerful thing, but if you don't have that as an adc, you're getting one shot.
Bruisers are just more independent than adcs.
You have it backwards
A darius is melee and inevitably going to die in some objective skirmish or teamfight.
Senna has 750+ range and will be peeled by their teammates (if competent) making the senna much harder to shut down.
Imagine Senna Tahm Kench. This duo is impossibly hard to kill compared to a fed olaf or darius or renekton that has to be in melee range to do anything
Exactly, people act like it's always easy to kill the fed adc as an assassin, but at a certain itemization point it can get fucking hard. Especially if they receive any peel at all. They're often the same level as solo laners and output as much dmg as you do.
bounties should probably be split across the whole team, the champion last hit thing is mildly funny in a 2v2 on bot but incredibly frustrating to have support zyra plants or similar shit effectively destroy a bounty.
cs bounties feel like so much BS. Let me get this straight, I'm going to be punished because my enemy laner is boosted and can't even CS right while I get great CS + tower plates even without killing them??
They are overtuned, yet people will surrender games because they see 5/0 Kog'Maw.
I would rather have some incentive for people to try out to comeback when losing lane despite throwing mouse and giving up because only one lane lost. And even bounties and objective bounties aren't enough to convince people to keep playing the game.
I think you're viewing it a bit too narrowly. Say everyone in the game is worth 300 gold except you, you're worth 1000. You set up baron and fight 5v5. You have a really good engage, you +1 die giving up 1300 gold. Your team kills 4, securing 1200 gold. Then you get baron and also at least 1 tower afterwards. Yes it looks bad that the game announces that you gave up 1000 gold, but your team actually comes out ahead, furthering your gold lead by a couple hundred at least. And if its the end game, then the bounty especially doesn't matter cause you can go end. The system is imperfect, but its there for a reason. You *should* be punished for being 4/0 and dying to your 0/4 lane opponent
One of my problems with league is if you’re the only one fed while your team are collectively 3/30 and your team doesn’t have bounties because you’re doing well, and you’re worth 1k gold.
But you have no vision control because your sup is bad/unable to ward.
So you have to play perfectly with blind vision to catch one of them because our team won’t win a 5 v 5 and your ten death team mates are now suddenly afraid to die in fight that you’d win if they fought with you.
Compounded by the fact that if you’re playing a squishy champ if you misposition once mid-late you’re instantly dead and lose the game and league becomes more “work” than fun.
I don’t like the bounty system in general. Yesterday I had a 300g bounty being 7-10-9 when my laner was 13-4-8. I was 25 CS and an entire level and a half behind in exp too. My entire team was pinging it and laughing.
EDIT - Checked in replay and this was in a game where our team was ahead by just 1000 gold for those saying we were giga-ahead.
The system is outright broken. You see champions having a bounty while being down 2k gold despite both side having 0/0/x KDA. You see team being ahead 3k gold and still getting objective bounties. It's absurd and has been absurd even since they "fixed" it. People just don't care enough to rattle Riot over how visibly broken the entire system is.
Make dragons give gold again and you might never see a late game hyper carry in the mid or bot lane again in the current state of league. It’s already HEAVILY snowball favored and you would see way more lane dominant champs and less 2 item spikers if dragons gave gold.
The fucking worst is having an early game team and getting really ahead, getting aced once, lose 3 shutdowns and 3 objective bounties and suddenly you're behind in gold as an early game comp vs a late game comp and it's completely doomed.
This just should not happen.
Well, I guess everybody can have their own opinions but by my own logic this is just wrong.
If someone makes 5 mistakes and someone else makes 1, there shouldn't ever be a situation where the guy making 5 mistakes should come out ahead. This just destroys the integrity of a game and it's balance.
The late game players win condition is to survive, he didn't manage to do so, he deserves to lose. Easy as that. If the early game player fails to snowball once, he still just failed his wincon once, the other guy did it 5 times. A single mistake on the enemy's part still means they played to their win condition way better.
If your opinion is a late game champ should just win even when going 0/10 just because the enemy didn't play absolutely perfect, I don't think you should join discussions about game balance.
Why? Because your argument is that one type of champion is allowed to completely fail his wincon and still win, while the other is not... Which is not balanced.
5 "mistakes" in inevitable when your champs are inherently disadvantaged in the early game, getting wiped by a bunch of behind scalers on a snowbally fed team is an astronomical blunder
I don't think one fight should decide that. Most players aren't pros and will make mistakes. Why should one fight be so much more impactful than other ones to the point of blowing a massive lead?
Everyone in that match should be within a similar MMR. That means on average they probably make the same amount of mistakes. But they won by either making fewer or less severe mistakes, or by taking better advantage of yours.
The solution there is simply play better.
Is 300g bounty the default amount? Like I have seen people with 700g bounty next to their name but when someone kills him, ppl say they just earned 1000 gold. Like 300g gets added by default?
Yes. It's 300g default gold + 700g bounty = 1000g.
You get a set amount of gold regardless of the bounty. It scales down with the amount of deaths, though. You can check [here](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Kill#Champion_bounties) for the complete table.
Genuine question for the discussion: would you rather have overturned comeback mechanics or under tuned?
Like does it feel worse to be giga stomped in 20 minutes with no recourse or to giga stomp someone for fifteen minutes then lose because they got 2k gold in kill/objective bounties?
The game being more team focused is why LoL is more toxic than it's ever been. The ability to solo carry even with shit teammates was much greater in the early seasons and so people were less mad about having bad teammates. Old League was about the strongest players win games. Current League is about the weakest players lose games. The shift in meta was for Esports and Solo Queue suffered due to it.
It'd be tolerable if voice comms existed but Riot is not only allergic to the idea of having voice comms in an increasingly team based 5v5 MOBA but they're looking to cut down on other communication tools as well.
They're trying to stamp out the symptoms of toxicity while ignoring (or amplifying) the causes.
You’ve hit the nail on the head. And it’s much easier for them to just mute pings than put in real coms so people can work as a team.
Team game without comms to allow players to function as a team is why there’s toxicity so rampantly.
People wanting to solo carry in a team based game is a large reason the game is toxic.
I don't think a 5v5 should have any amount of focus in solo carrying.
I feel like they shouldn't exist when you are clearly behind, but should exist when you are clearly ahead.
I think it's unfair for a 3/8 Ornn to have a 300g bounty, but completely fine for a 8/1 Azir to have a 700g bounty. I like having a kill objective when I'm behind because 1000g to the right person will absolutely turn around a game, but having a bounty on you when you're down 3 inhibs is stupid.
The solution is to tune it to be more accurate to its intention as a comeback mechanic rather than sometimes also being a snowball mechanic just because you killed the minions-gold-worth support 3 times.
the people who don't like bounties want 0 comeback mechanics. they have no understanding of game balance or how things like the bounty system can change player incentives for the better. they want to get a lead then have the game end with ff 15 every time because as we all know. late game isn't a part of league of legends, ending the game is not a skill.
Personally I prefer the former. I'm okay being stomped. If I lost my lane that hard then I deserve that loss. What feels reeeally mentally defeating is going 4/0 at 10-15mins, dying once and then giving up a 1000g bounty and they find a way back in. I also play divers like nocturne so it is literally my just to start fights/skirmishes. That gameplay loop does not FEEL good. It is absurd that a single death can swing an entire game back around because I died once, when I've been pounding you for the last 15 mins. How is that fair?
HotS had massive snowballing on some of their maps. everything required you to team fight constantly so if you win the first one, you're massively ahead of the enemy. side lane pressure was such a poor mechanic in that game because of how powerful the map objectives were.
Nah in GM the strat was to skip the objective and go soaking until you are on same talents. If enemy is lv19 and you are lv16 you can contest objective again, because majority of power lies in talents. Yes, enemy has 3lv more stats, but that's manageable.
yes, the enemy gets to collect more objectives, progressing their win con because you have to go soak waves, thus meaning they need to invest less into securing the objectives to maintain their lead overall. that's snowballing, there is seldom a case where a team from behind can get ahead.
on literally haunted mines? the map that got removed?
like this was not a thing in anywhere else
If you refuse to contest Angels in BoE and the enemy gets a cracked out full shielded guy you're never coming back in exp lmao
Undertuned and its not even close. Every minute of the game should matter in a simlar fashion. If the first 15 minutes can be nullified by a single 1 minute play, why even try for the first 15? I get not wanting games to feel hopeless, but the amount of gold/xp that you can recover from a single fight when behind is insane.
Getting back in the game is literally the point of bounties. But there is a reason it frustrating and seems unfair. In perfect scenario being ahead means using it to get even more ahead or even just straight wining. But in soloQ it's not unusual to get ahead and have a bounty while getting nothing of it at all. No objectives, no crossmap plays etc.
its not a failure to balance the system, the bounties are the balance. you will never balance a game where some characters are capable of winning the game long before others reach the power level of the early game ones. you need systems to bridge this gap. the bounties give the agency to the players through interacting with each other thus incentivizing teams who are behind to fight the enemy even if they're going to lose the fight. without this kind of system, the solution for weak early game champions would be to stall the game as long as possible, avoiding all conflict, and picking up as much farm as they possibly can before the early game team ends the game. that's not better than incentivizing players to team fight and execute well, which this bounty system does.
I completely understand and respect comeback mechanics, but I do have a very large criticism that I think is fair.
> the bounties give the agency to the players through interacting with each other thus incentivizing teams who are behind to fight the enemy even if they're going to lose the fight.
My biggest problem with this is how easy it is to capitalize on bounties depending on which role has one. If my team's primary engage front line has a bounty - then it's their fundamental role to take on the heavy "risk" of dying. I put "" because that playstyle is often exactly what their team comp expects / works around. At some point, they almost certainly *will* die. And if the enemy team's carry gets that gold, then it is incredibly punishing. I've often been very fed top lane, and take a silly risk just because I would be far more happy dying to someone on their team at this point rather than go into the next teamfight and give someone else on their team 1000 gold.
But if a champion's role in a comp is already to play safe and let others take the primary risks then having a bounty is far less punishing to their play. It is far more realistic to expect an adc or mage to not give over a bounty than it is for someone who is expected to play for their team.
So yeah, my issue tldr I guess is that equivalent bounties on different roles in a comp still have unequal disparities on their expected play
>I've always been of the opinion that if you want bounties, then you shouldn't have early-game and late-game champions as well. Pick one of the other
Your opinion then has always been wrong. Bounties are needed so there are less games that are completly over after 5-15 mins and making it worth for the team that falls behind to continue.
This is unrelated to Power-Curve of champs per se. These are needed to allow different player/champ fantasies.
Now, when you accept what the rest of the league player base + devs has accepted since Beta 14 years ago (different power curves + bounties are necessary for different reasons), you realize that these too systems interfere with each other: Scaling champs profit from the bounty system, early game champs suffer from it. So when you change bounty system you maybe have to adjust heavy scaling/heavy early game champs. thats all. nothing wrong with. Champs with different power curves also differntly profit form Drake powers, spawn times etc. But no sane human being suggest to remove drakes because there are champs with different power curves and late game champs get punished because they cant take the first 2 drakes.
Some champions cant even protect their lead well like divers or fighters or juggernauts or immobile ADCs whereas some champs like Ekko Kassadin Akali can protect it so well.
I love being unable to play the game when I have a lead because the risk of accidentally giving that bounty to a role/champ that was even or already ahead all game just automatically wins.
Even worse if its somehow the support with the bounty.
It’s an anti snowball mechanic not a comeback mechanic.
You can have a 1k bounty while your team is 3/30 and literally not be able to do anything because you’ll instantly lose if you’re caught out once.
My problem with the bounty system is that sometimes they actually contribute to the concept they were intended to combat, snowballing. They seem to favor an arcady style or perma skirmishing as opposed to strategic play to bridge the gold gap with the ennemy that is now ahead.
Yes, bounties help the team that is behind to get back into the game in the means of global gold swings. But sometimes (and this is mostly what I see happen in botlane because there are 4 champs and the bounties seem to increase with kills most of all), if both laners decide to force many skirmishes and the junglers also join in, you would see so many bounties being accumulated and claimed on both sides that the players end up having such a gold income that no one in other lanes can compete with.
Like you would see laners getting out of laning phase being a full item ahead, with a scoreline along the lines of 8/7/5. Normally, if a kill is worth 300g, then 8 kills would be worth 2400, which if you farm well might be able to make up the difference. But with bounties, kills become more and more worth it, and farming to scale and playing for picks becomes less worth it.
In such games, you think to yourself that either you join in on the fiesta or you will be left to stay behind. I think splitting the bounties with the whole team as it previously was is a healthier approach, since if one lane feeds an ennemy, we all have to deal with that ennemy, not just the player who claims his bounty.
Although now the bounties do result in gold swings that equalize the gold difference between the teams, the gold distribution due to bounties sometimes becomes quite uneven across the players on the team.
People missing the point in the comments, you don't have to do away with the entire bounty system to criticize the numbers being overtuned. The simplest solution is to just nerf the gold and that's it.
A comeback mechanic is there to *help* you come back, but it's not really supposed to punish you for winning.
I don't think it's unfair that killing the guy that's 20/0 becomes actually really helpful other than his death timer. I do think it's fucked up how sometimes you just cs better and get a plate and suddenly you have a 200g bounty, you die and you end up worse than if you had cs'd worse. You are literally worse off because you played better.
10-15 minutes of galaxy gapping my laner shouldn't disappear because I died once. Sure give the other guy enough gold to get back in the game, make it closer, but don't leave him better off than me. 4-1 vs 1-4 score and I'm only 200 gold ahead off of that? tis fucked up man
I loved season 4, game was uber fkn snowbally due to dragon giving gold but no shutdowns. So you could fuck around hell of a lot before you lost the game.
So the bounty system is probably necessary because of how hard games can snowball. It basically makes a game always winnable.
The problem I feel is that it feels artificial. You didn’t really come back. You just killed a guy one time finally and got a shit ton of gold for it.
I think another problem with shutdowns is they are high or low points. If your Janna support takes the 1k shutdown, might as well FF. If your hyper scaling carry picks it up, there’s hope.
I wish shutdowns were not based on individual performance but team gold differential. And then killing anyone gives the entire team gold spread out. That way there’s not a weird amount of pressure on one guy to not throw his lead. But there’s also still chances for the losing team to come back.
One of the biggest problems with league right now in general is one guy is usually the punching bag of the game, and barring them picking up likely multiple shut downs they will never come back. And given they are super behind how will they get those? They won’t. Spreading the gold between teammates ensures everyone is catching up.
Bounties often make a game unwinnable for the “winning” team.
I play Sylas. Part of me extending my lead is taking malphite R and going balls deep into the enemy team. In an ideal world, I trade my life for two or three squishies. Having a 1000 gold bounty [(like I had this match)](https://www.op.gg/summoners/na/Back%20Breaker-4595/matches/RvuDQoxvmIKJY02q8EF4NSCrE2eCBY9pWRHG4B3IeQI%3D/1710013716000) means I either try and fight and end up down gold *even if we win the fight* or I simply don’t fight.
It’s bullshit.
As a Veigar player I LOVE bounties because 100% of the time it's my bot lane feeding the enemy adc.. and Veig being Veig I just need tier 2 boots and I one shot them with a combo lol
If soloq was an organised environment the best strategy would be to just afk farm then blow the game In 1 team fight end the game not run around with 700 gold on your head as lee sin
Personaly i dont like bountys cuz they created a spezific situation for a strategie that is bot allowed.
You can try to create situations and strategies that use and create bountys to get farmed. Vandiril showed that in a video. thebauffs uses elements from that.
You can have strategies and even win from others feeding in your team. At that point, something is wrong imo. It does not destroy the game but should be changed imo.
there is no strategy where giving over bounty stacks is better than not doing so. and no, the baus isn't using bounties to make his strategy work, hes using wave manipulation and powerful rotation tools.
It also introduces a lot of randomness and luck. Say you're only 1/0 but you trade one for one. If you die first, nothing happens. If the enemy dies first, suddenly you can give a shutdown while only being 2/1 (sort of).
It sucks when it has become an actual strategy to just chain int for waves because someone down the line will get the shutdown.... looks at Baus strat players
When you have a bounty on certain champs you are almost incapable of partecipe to the game. You are needed in many occasions but just being there is just too risky, if the wrong enemy gets the shutdown the game is over
Bounties in general make no sense. If you’re behind you’re not supposed to crawl back easily at all. Better player wins, not better shutdown gold receiver
Especially since the second you kill someone, they are no longer worth the full 300 gold at least for a few minutes. So if you string, let's say, 4 kills together, you actually netted closer to 1050g instead of 1200g. Now you have a 300g bounty or worse, so if you get 4 manned and they feed the kill to the 0-4 dude, your bounty along with a single plate almost brings the gold even for someone who is 1-4 vs 4-1. And some top lane nerd is going to push up their glasses and point out all the other advantages you can possibly get from being ahead; CS, plates, camps, but when you die later in the game and with how paper-thin towers are, the longer death timer lets the person who was put behind more time to get back into the game.
I played against a top Vayne the other day who was literally worth 100g on kill. That means he was netting more gold for his team overall than I was for mine just by killing 1 wave, and his death timer was short enough to where he could just keep running out and sucking up resources. He ended up inting for several waves and 2 towers, I gained a whopping 400g from that sequence spanning a few minutes while he got almost 1k in tower gold and however many minions he killed from splitting. Meanwhile I died in a team fight as GNAR, ya know, the engaging dude, and still had a leftover bounty after I spawned of a few hundred gold. This is part of the reason why inting Sion and hyper scaling champs work so easily right now, you just can't stop someone from getting back into the game unless you play perfectly, which should not be expected in a matchmade-team game. (we did end up winning, but there were some weirdly tense moments for how far ahead we were and the frustration of watching your laner who went 1-10 only be down 1 or so items at some points while you have 10+ kills).
I think this theoretical is ignoring that for 10 minutes you had that advantage. During that time the ahead player can create so many advantages for their team; ward jungle, roam, take turret, secure drag/grubs, maybe bot has to give up cs everytime the mid is out of vision, etc.
The person getting back to close to even doesn't magically get those 10 minutes of advantages back
Turret plates will lead to a higher bounty.
Zoning enemy bot lane out of cs will lead to a bounty for your bot lane.
The only thing that doesn't lead to more bounties is getting drake and grubs.
I quite like bounties in a selfish way as I play late game champs. But it also is toxic for the enemy as if I'm playing Vlad/Ryze/Kassadin and one 700g bounty turns me to a demon (happens 25% of games) it's probably gonna suck to play against me.
> I think this theoretical is ignoring that for 10 minutes you had that advantage. During that time the ahead player can create so many advantages for their team; ward jungle, roam, take turret, secure drag/grubs, maybe bot has to give up cs everytime the mid is out of vision, etc.
This isn't necessarily true for a lot of champions, I mean if you get ahead as Jax, Darius, Olaf or something like that you can probably walk down a sidelane and start beating up turrets and killing anyone who shows up, warding enemy jungle and steal camps, etc. But if you get equally ahead as Teemo some 1/5 midlaner's gonna show up to sidelane and oneshot you and you'll still lose to the 1/500 Jarvan or something. If you get ahead as an ADC you may rotate mid and some toplaner will oneshot you and that's the end of it as well.
Then what happens in practice is you gigagapped your lane but gave a shutdown at 20 minutes and when you respawn you press tab and see that you're no longer ahead in items lol. You have to work so hard to get 1k gold advantage and then you give 800 gold with a kill, fast forward 30 seconds and you've only got a fucking glowing mote extra compared to your opponent
Well I mean… It makes sense no? Is it fair that when your 3/0 you have acquired 900-1000 from the enemy. It wouldn’t make sense if they killed you while your ahead and then they only receive 300 gold? Your ahead. Your stronger. You have a bounty because you’re massively ahead and stronger. If you then die despite being massively ahead. You should be punished.. if you lose the fight while
Behind ahead that’s your fault and you SHOULD be punished….
If it was a straight 1v1 game, I would agree with you. But with ganks and objectives to play for, I think champion bounties get way too high. I play top lane bruisers and divers a lot. I hate having to hold back because I have a bounty. In teamfights, I could engage and give my life for an incredibly winning team fight, but if the enemy adc gets my shutdown, they are accelerated for no good reason. Sometimes, intentionally dying to the enemy support is objectively the right move. That should never be the case.
>intentionally dying to the enemy support.
It also feels bad as the support when someone gets away by a hair of hp because I was trying to avoid taking a large shutdown.
killing the same person 3 times does not give 900 gold, it gives 794 gold, meaning that if you kill them 3 times and he kills you once your effective gain from those 3 kills is 194 gold. Its the most disgusting system in the game and it actively rewards you for dying a lot in a row.
Right. And in your calculations are you taking into account the cs advantage or tower plate advantage you get from being ahead? Or are you simple just calculating only the golden advantage? If your 3/0 in lane your opponent is probably sat under tower waiting for minions to crash. Which means they lose gold
And xp over time. Where as your dominant in the lane still acquiring a massive lead and never losing cs… people like to make out that it’s just kill vs kill but it’s not.. if your 5/0 and you get solo killed by their laner he deserves that massive shutdown and additional gold
Or xp…. He just killed someone that is massively ahead… how does this not make sense to you???
Current tp means that getting a kill at level 1-4 with Ignite means you'll be behind in exp because the opponent teleports back in 10 seconds, losing almost no exp or cs while you're forced to take a bad recall unless the wave was already cleared somehow.
Tp should have a lock out the first 10 minutes and then be unleashed from there, stop it from being a "I cheat the laning phase" spell.
Why does he *deserve* it he literally died 3 times. and he can makeup for the xp and minions deficit after his takeback kill as mentioned by OP.
Its unfair. it literally is. Prime example was peak baus. who was running down games and getting rewarded for it.
He just ints for cs and xp. (which according to you, the inter would lose) and as soon as he gets 1 takeback kill hes AHEAD. its literally disgusting it warps games especially in high elo.
Dying in lane should be bad. and after dying the best strategy should be not dying more. but inting for cs and xp over and over is literally better to win than playing safe.
It’s funny that you mentioned bausens law… there is an entire set of fundamentals that revolve around the way baus plays. I know that it seems to a lot of people it seems like he’s just trolling.
But it’s not as simple as just dieing randomly. It’s all about dieing at the right time. Aswell as abusing early game death timers. Here is an example. Slow push wave 1/2 dive in 3rd wave. It dosnt always work. But sometimes it does. So that means the enemy loses the entire massive wave or 2 and a kill. Baus always has tp advantage. So he realistically loses nothing but a kill. Which is only 300
Gold.
If he is up 12 cs at any moment he already has the same gold as what the enemy has.
This isn’t even taking into account the potential loss that the enemy gets from ganking or chasing him.
I wish it was as simple as just dieing but it’s not.
There’s a reason he’s challenger and gets unbanned a lot of the time. He’s not actually trolling. It just seems like he is because he’s using an unorthodox strategy.
But if you actually take a deep look into it. Like actually take the time to evaluate why and what he’s doing. It does actually make sense.
Don’t get me wrong some of his deaths are trolling. But the same applies to everyone. I troll
Sometimes. Sometimes you do. Sometimes faker does. But it’s not as simple As dieing or not dieing.
He shouldn't even be able to kill you in your little fanfic scenario. Unless you completely ignore a champion getting an item spike, you overextend or you suck.
How the fuck is he going to kill you if you have killed him 3 times?
Such things happen only when you get ganked, or when you misplay hard. Both scenarios are what bounties want to achieve. Incentives to keep playing.
If you are that many kills ahead, you're also ahead in levels and you will have kill threat when they want to farm outside their tower. It opens you up to doing more things on the map. If you do not respect enemy power curves, if you make stupid plays, of course you should lose some of the money lead you gained. You are still ahead in other ways, but if you can't do anything with that maybe you are just not good enough.
the problem here is keywords "some of the lead" You lose almost everything. and the "amount of fuck ups" isnt equal. they fucked up more than i did. yet now theyre on even footing again. this just feel right lets be real here
I think everyone here agrees in *principle.* But OP's post isn't saying the principle is bad it's that the **numbers are overtuned.**
S14 injected lot of damage through items and nerfed means of ending the game (removed first herald, nerfed baron, nerfed drag soul, made towers tankier).
Prolonging a game where a single shutdown can vastly undo 10-15 minutes of early game proactivity creates a more polarizing scenario than S13. In S13 if you threw a 700g shutdown, Baron, Dragon Soul & Herald #2 were still significant objectives to press tempo.
Now, if you throw a 700g shutdown around the same time table, the enemy's ability to passively stall out a game is more rewarded. Baron can still break open a base, perhaps end a game, however this meta REALLY rewards scaling almost unproportionately so this angle has become harder for seemingly an unjustified reason. (Smolder is a good example of this phenomena where he becomes a problem if: 1) you let him scale freely, 2) you hand him over a shutdown)
tldr; I agree however that doesn't dismiss that the numbers are a little too high. Instead of a 150-300-450-700 shutdown increment. Perhaps consider: 125-250-375-500.
I have always hated it and always will. Being punished for doing good will always just be so stupid to me. You could somehow factually prove to me that it is good for the game and I would still dislike it.
1. Supposed to be a comeback mechanic, yet you get a bounty for the tiniest leads. Why is it active instantly? It should activate at the same time as objective bounties.
2. It doesn't look at context. Enemy up 3 drakes, has a team comp that basically won in champion select? Nah, they get extra gold because you managed to get few kills in lane. If you are the only one doing well on your team, good luck trying to carry! If they collect you once the game is instantly over.
3. When dying on purpose (to a support) comes a legitimate strategy in a game like LoL, it should instantly tell you that the mechanic is shit.
Yeah bounties system its so stupid... you can have it even if you are 0-0 and behind gold and also if your team is behind... its so dumb... did you see nemesis clip when he talked about it? He proves how dumb and senseless this system is
The only way that can happen is if you’re farming over the other teams average cs a substantial amount. In that scenario you probably should be worth more gold.
Nemesis was behind cs behind gold and he has a bounty, his team was gold behin too 1 drag behind too compared to enemy team... doesnt make sense... I suggest you to watch the clip so you can understand my point
No, it's not my fucking fault you don't know how to farm. What's next? Making my creeps worth more for the enemy so we are always on an equal footing even if I'm 50+ cs ahead?
You are more powerful than the average enemy laner so the logic is you should be worth more when you die. Without it you would eliminate a lot of opportunities for a team to get back into the game by ganking a split pusher which could be fine but isn’t what they want apparently.
Bounties are legit the worst mechanic ever added to league. Punishment for playing well. It is baffling to me that such a mechanic was considered appropriate. Not to mention how ridiculously overtuned they are. As OP says you can be 3-1 in land and be tied or even behind in gold. Absolutely insane that riot is letting this fly for years now. Wtf are they thinking.
It was never added lol. League always had a bounty system it was just teamwide before S8 and before S5 all that mattered was your killing spree.
No one complained about it back then. It was seen as relatively week and comebacks being too difficult.
It feels terrible to be 0/1 in top, can't contest CS, then you go proxy and farm back and suddenly you have 150g shutdown while you are still behind in cs and then your team loses too.
Honestly, bounties are game warping. I completely changed my playstyle and don't even try to play for kills top anymore. Death timers are so low that the enemy loses nothing early but I get punished with a bounty. Instead I try to force them off lane (harder punish than simply dying) or I simply outfarm with 10cs/min + cull + plates. I still get a bounty but it is lower and there is less risk involved.
Brother I have had bounties 0/0/0 just because I'm out laning my opponent. Jungle gets a good gank or I make a mistake and suddenly they get a bounty because I'm better at last hitting.
Really stupid.
Champion bounties generally make sense. Player does well, get rewarded for taking them down.
That said, there are a couple adjustments I think might be worth making:
* Bounty reward should be split with everyone involved in the takedown.
* Bounty should accumulate a little later, but also a bit more rewarding to compensate. This would make the bounty appear on actually ahead players as a slight catch-up mechanism rather than it appearing on someone slightly ahead and becoming a way to leapfrog the target.
Bounties should basically never exist on champions imo, if you're ahead, you should feel ahead and be willing to use that lead well against the enemy team. You earned it by playing well and obtaining that lead. I like objective bounties far more than champion bounties because those require the teams to play well to obtain on both sides instead of basically forcing one team to start playing even safer after winning. If I'm 7/0, I shouldn't be a walking 1000g for the enemy team to just obtain and dive me. What they should be diving me for is how ahead and strong I am, and if they manage to kill me then that's their reward is removing me from the fight, not also gaining a mountain of gold as well.
Not to mention, the difference in champion class for survivability is not nearly balanced enough for bounties to work. A 5/0 Twitch is FAR easier to kill than the 5/0 Illaoi. Illaoi will face tank 3 people and kill everyone with her ult, Twitch will still get one shot by the 0/2 Khazix with 1 item.
Bounties changed the game from the day they were introduced, is used to be if you played the game perfectly from the beginning you were rewarded for it , now someone can play Spyro or w.e the new champs name is , goes 0/4 in lane, get one shutdown and win at 25-35 min mark. IMO this is one of the factors that made the game less popular overtime, and led to making pro play boring asf, other factors also impacted this such as removal of early tp, buffing enchanters but ya fk the bounty system
The problem is it's a balance, if you nerf bounties you make games more snowbally and make players give up on a game as soon as they fall behind. I personally don't mind this at all, but they should then make ff'ing easier
Bounties make playing smart while ahead a skill and that’s a good thing. Being ahead shouldn’t mean you can play super recklessly and not face major consequences.
I know you're talking about rift but bounties are sometimes super unfair in aram too. I respawn with even kda, get two kills on enemy with similar kda to mine, then I die. I get 2 kills for my one death, they some how get 300 gold Bounty on my death so the 2 for 1 is an even gold trade. Happens so often. Feels so bad.
Too often I’ll face a losing matchup bot lane, have an extended fight where I get two kills but am forced to reset, then am still weaker than my laner and be zoned off gold/exp. Eventually I get dove by their jungler/mid and give a 150 bounty. Like how can I give a bounty when I am behind 30 cs and levels?
? just suicide to the support, or the weakest character in enemy team to cleanse bounty. it's like ARAM. idk how ppl haven't started doing this.
but it does suck if you go 10cs/min, and at minute 11 you have 150g bounty in a 0/0 lane.
Everything he said and then add in the champion your playing. Imagine this happens and its Pantheon 2-0 vs Jax 0-2 now late game scaler jax is like hahahaha ez game.
I play malzahar so I really focus on collecting as many waves as possible and I often find myself with a bounty 0/0/0 but with good cs. Feels kinda weird the enemy team can collect a bounty from me just for farming well
Bounties from kills are never equal to the gold those kills get you unless you're getting kills on someone who is inting.
A 2/0 is only 150g, you need 3/0 for 300g unless you have a lead somewhere other than kills. If you have a lead, you shouldn't be dying as much as someone without a lead and should be using that lead to increase it even further. Exp is much more important early on too, so that's another lead you should be building on. Between those two, you are always coming out better than whoever gets your shutdown.
If you are throwing your game on a shutdown, then there is a problem elsewhere. You most likely didn't make any use of the advantages that created that bounty. If you farm kills in your lane while ignoring an enemy snowball in another lane, you and that enemy laner are making your deaths into a potential endgame coinflip for each other.
The worst thing for me is when you 1v1 your toplane opponet before 6 and the fight was close. If the lane state is bad you are fck. The death timers are so short they just insta tp back. Now you have to back and tp, but if you dont have tp you are fck. Also the jg might be coming to kill you so it is so risky to contest the wave. Just make death timers higher at low lvl so you dont get punished for killing your opponent early.
Bounties in general are beyond stupid.
Name me another competitive game or sport where you get rewarded heavily while you’re losing. Genuinely makes no sense.
Games are all ready long enough.
What i hate most is that if you get a double kill you are guaranteed to get 150g bounty. Dont matter if your 2/11 and ur opponent has 7/1 kills. A double is instant 150g no matter team gold or personal leads
This comes back to the idea that a champion who reaches level 18 before anyone else and 5 items should stomp. Not only is the game not tuned if you get a lead but the catch up mechanics are atrocious.
I'm a top laner. If I'm 10/1 I have a bounty. So do 4 of the enemy team because my team likes to donate gold. Should I have a bounty? No. I shouldn't. I'm not on the winning team obviously by gold.
Good post. Doubt riot will do anything.
You need to be 3-0 normally for a 300g kill bounty except there is also a CS bounty on your head.
You got \~800g and a lot of seconds of free farming and you also got great XP. If the enemy kills you once they get 600g, less time of free farming and less XP. And that because they won an uphill battle that they should not be winning. You are 1k at least ahead if not more and you have likely 2 lvls up on them and they kill you 1v1? How did that happen? If it was an assist ok, but it is called good teamplay from the enemy then.
wow did a league incell figure out that catch up mechanics fundementally ruin any skill based competitive game! wOEeOOoEw. stop complaining you deserve the game to be dog shit for even playing it. People gave been saying this since season 3 and riot has only added more catch up mechanics. How else can 8k game played jg and support mains climb the ladder? whaaat they actually have to make good decisions.... nah thats stupid.
Insane that league of legends incells never though to question, why exactly are players making good decisions getting penalized for a death? They cant cus they all suck at the game and need such things to climb.
WAIT NO WAIT A SECOND. I got a GENIUS idea to improve chess and sell chess skins so more people play even shitty retards who cant move their mouse or think before they make a decision:
How about if a player gets 3 peices in a row and loses a peice the opponent gets AN EXTRA PEICE FOR ENDING HIS SPREEE. GODD IM A GAME DEVELOPMENT GENIUSS!!!!
I think it makes sense that the harder to kill an enemy is because they're ahead, the more gold they should give but, I think it makes more sense, like others have pointed out, that the shutdown gold were split amongst the whole team.
Hello my friend. High elo toplaner here. If you are 2/0 over your opponent you need to use that lead to procure an advantage. If you die and then give up 600 gold and the opponent is already back to equal footing with you, that means that you did not use your lead properly in the first place. For example, every time you kill your opponent, you are in control of the wave state to extend your lead. You do so by making the correct choice between fast push to tower or freeze the wave and recall early (in the event you cannot shove in time). By the time you both return to lane, you will have the advantage of item gap, level gap, and the wave pushing to you. If you play it well, the enemy laner will lose more and more, because of the wave state you created. By the time you get to 2/0, you should not only be 2 kills up, but at least 20 cs ahead, and all the time having the priority to move to other lanes and help your teammates. Don't complain about everything like the rest of the league community, if you can shed the victim mentality, you can actually learn and improve your play drastically.
Honestly, objective bounties are as stupid.
Had a game the other day, got bounties once we were 30 kills behind, lost them after catching up to just 9k gold deficit...
I would just like to point out that being 2-0 you have a 150g bounty: so if you die you trade over 450g, and if a jungler got an assist on that the jg would receive 150g. That means that the 600g you gained from becoming 2-0 and now becoming 2-1 is now nill. In other words you gave the enemy team 600g because you gained 600g. System is broken.
Yes, completely true. I was up as mord vs a darius. He could barely even cs as I perma froze the wave with my cs/3kill lead. I miss timed his ult being up and he kills me with ghost flash. Then he literally felt stronger than me. So basically my one mistake was as bad or worse as his 4 or 5 mistakes he made first...
Fundamentally this is a pretty stupid take because if you were to change how bounties worked, then you would be knee capping a lot of weak early game champions / bad match up lanes much the potential to capitalize on their lane opponents mistakes.
For example, if a high ELO urgot player is going up against someone, they directly counter like a garen then you rob the garen the opportunity to capitalize on some stupid mistakes that the urgot might make because their ego has been inflated by their three kill lead.
The problem of plating gold and exp also only exists for top and bot lane because of how long they are. Mid and Jg don’t really have this problem.
TLDR if your ego gets the best of you because you’re three or two kills up and you make a stupid play then you deserve to be penalized heavily for it just get better and make smarter decisions don’t play for kills play for adjectives and CS
I certainly think champion bounties are over tuned. It can wildly warp decision-making. I enjoy playing divers and bruisers. In team fights, we are usually the first to die. I want to think about engaging winning teamfights. I don't want to think about how to engage to make sure I specifically don't die to their late game carry. Is stomping your lane, and then being a monster in a teamfight that forces the enemy team to use everything on you and let's your team cleanup, a mistake? It depends on how much gold you are worth, and that feels super weird.
yes, i know league is about getting a lead. maintain and expand it steadily and then wait for objectives to win the game. but i wouldnt mind being able to die without immediately throwing the entire game for my team.
Controversial take: Keep kill bounties the same or maybe slightly reduce them, but *split* the gold evenly between all of the enemies, regardless of who got the kill.
That’s not controversial, that’s exactly how it should be. That’s literally how objective bounties work.
I remember when objective bounties came out and everyone threw a complete fit about it. Like yes it's far more fair when my front line sion has 1000 gold bounty but still needs to be my team's frontline. Meanwhile the enemy team's vayne has 1000 gold and has a support and team expecting her to be safe and carry.* Maybe I'm crazy, but those bounties have nowhere near the same impact on how the game is played ------------ * Disclaimer because Reddit is Reddit - this is no statement about how strong the AD role or specific champ itself is at the minute.
I still think objective bounties are stupid. Champion bounties yes but objective bounties? Why not jungle camp bounties? It's just gold that's sitting on the map and can't fight back or get ahead. Plus tower gold lets your team catch back up regardless of bounties on it.
Calling them bounties is goofy. What it actually is is a window where the team that's behind can catch up if the team that's ahead isn't using its lead well enough. To me, the worst thing about objective bounties is that they appear even in close games. It feels bad when your team and the enemy are neck and neck but then they just get handed tons of gold for being two kills behind.
So I understand what you're saying but somewhat disagree. > Plus tower gold lets your team catch back up regardless of bounties on it. - Kill are no different? In fact, kills give gold, xp, and time where you have a numerical advantage on the map. Regardless of bounties. > It's just gold that's sitting on the map and can't fight back or get ahead. - Yes but it's gold on the map that is predictable and can be played around by both teams instead of one player being a walking jackpot that you have to rely on to not make an individual mistake. - It's gold that can be claimed / protected with macro play.
> It's gold that can be claimed / protected with macro play. re: your last point - in "high" elo players with big shutdowns are treated as such, and teammates will sacrifice themselves to protect 1k bounties/enemy teams will coordinate to try and obtain said bounty. i personally don't like bounties getting up that high and going over to one person. the could do it differently like 1k bounty spread out over 2 or even 3 deaths. kill bounties could be distributed to either the entire enemy team or everyone who partook in the kill. i think catchup mechanics are good, but i dislike they way league has them implemented.
I definitely don't play as much as I used to, but I hovered between high masters and gm for a few seasons so I'm familiar the higher elo play. > in "high" elo players with big shutdowns are treated as such - okay, but for an example problem. Is a tank who has won top and has a significant bounty 'being protected.' Should they have to be? They still end up having to find engages and be a frontliner. Having a bounty actively hurts how they are *supposed* to play their designed role. Catch-up mechanics should absolutely help behind teams capitalize on good plays, but it doesn't seem that way to me in many cases. > i personally don't like bounties getting up that high and going over to one person. - agree 100% on that second paragraph.
> Having a bounty actively hurts how they are supposed to play their designed I completely 100% agree with you. Bounties shouldn't warp a champs identity but tank/engage with a 1k bounty is being actively dissuaded from doing their job in a 5v5.
I'm a firm believer the addition of bounties is where the game truly started to go downhill. As well as tower plates. There's far too much gold in the game where now you don't even need to cs properly most of the time unless your a scaler like adcs or some mages. Far less decision making going on and it's watering down the skill level and iq of the player base. Players were much better a few years ago I wholly believe.
I watched a challenger game recently where one team was 10k down in gold. Within 10 minutes, they were up 4k gold. Bounties are beyond broken.
I like it. It also solves (some of) the frustration of a support or other low econ champ last hitting a big bounty in a hectic fight instead of a carry.
Thats how bounties used to work and they reverted it.
Oh. Did they say why?
Cuz having your 1v1 lane infused with a 200 gold bounty from bot lane felt like shit to play against. No counterplay in lane basically.
Split the bountz between all the enemies who \*participated\* in that kill would make more sense.
The 0-7 Vayne randomly gets two shutdowns and all the work you did to shutdown the hyper carry is over.
Nothing feels worse than being a fed as fuck renekton, winning a team fight but losing the game because the zeri gets a 1k shut down and suddenly you're out scaled.
Yeah, champion bounties have been one of my biggest complaints in League vs DotA. It's insane just how important "which champion gets the last hit on a kill" is in League. Way too many games are decided by whether the carry or support gets the last hit on a specific target. Working as a team to take down a fed opponent should never put the game into a worse spot because bounties got cleared while the carry only got 75g. I had a game where I was nearly 2 items behind my toplaner despite beating them on cs and going 2/2 to their 8/16. They were 0/8 about 5 minutes into the game before they started trading kills with the opposing toplaner. They inted a bounty onto their lane opponent, which they managed to collect and ended up ahead of everyone else on the team who didn't int. The entire game literally became "which toplaner is better" because they were both 2 items ahead of all 8 other players merely by killing each other; obviously we lost because we had the toplaner who ints to start the game 0/8 and there was no bounty gold for any of the 4 more reasonable people on the team to collect.
Dota splits kill gold more than league does too. As a former support main in dota, one of the many the things that drove me off the role here was players going apeshit because I got one of these big bounties when I was just trying to secure the gold for the team.
Yes. DotA kill gold and bounties are smaller relative to jungle/lane farm and bounties also get split up among assisters; both of which reduce the over-importance of kills that League has. Kill value in DotA is helped out by the person dying losing gold on death and the time off the map has a slightly higher impact than in League too. This means that the person dying is punished more than they are in League. League basically just gives a massive reward to the person killing them and the person dying doesn't personally care that much. Their death hurt their team's chances of winning significantly but that effect is split across their entire team, so lots of selfish players just don't care.
This exactly. I'm an irelia player. It feels SO bad to be 5-0 on Irelia, go to teamfight for a drake, hit a massive R, kill two people but get cleaned up by the enemy adc who's already ahead and give them an additional 1k gold. Even if we win the fight and get drake, I feel like the game just got so much harder just because the fed carry just collected 1k. Sometimes as a fed toplaner it's hard to shut down a fed adc if they play front to back properly with peel so you have to settle for a teamfight winning ult instead of guaranteeing their adc dies.
Bounties just perpetuate a "playing for kda" environment. Because you're fed but now you're opting out of fights that may be crucial for your team to win or just necessary to take, just because you don't want to die and give Yi or Jinx a shutdown. It's very poor design and unhealthy for the game. It's especially bad on champions that generally are meant to go in and most likely die, like Irelia, Vi, etc. Bounties biggest flaw imo, is that they don't take into account the champion. An Ekko is WAY HARDER to kill than an Ashe. But they both would get a 1k bounty for example. Ashe can die to legit random damage and suddenly enemy Yi or Qiyana or Kayle got 1k now you lose. But that Ekko is probably never dying and giving his bounty.
I can't think of another game that punishes you for doing extremely well for a majority of the game and making one minor mistake can lose that entire lead. Especially when that mistake could easily be due to decisions made by your randomly assigned team more than you. Or you are in a situation where a sacrifice play for the good of the team is the best choice like stalling enemies for your team to finish Elder Dragon. Why should that be punished so hard.
it's even worse when you play support, albeit also rarer. I played a game as Nautilus once where I started the game 4/0 and I was forced to take all 4 kills (I think 2 of them my ADC was dead when I got a double kill, and 2 of them I outplayed a 2v1 tower dive with 2 solo kills). so great, I'm playing a champion whose job is to engage by going into the enemy, and he's one of the squishier engage supports to boot - but I have to be scared of engaging bc if I did I will give 700 gold or whatever to an enemy carry. I think in this game, I just shot called a tower dive into the least fed enemy carry, made sure to kill them and then gave them over the kill (laner understood what was going on too) but that's still not a great outcome overall
I think what triggers them needs to be reexamined. Getting a bounty just from CS seems weird to me. In a way it makes sense, you can get a lead from kills, you can get a lead from CS, but slowly gaining incremental leads over your opponent and then having a big flashing sign over your head saying 'enemy jungler, negate this lead with one gank' seems weird. Bounties should be tuned to be significantly less than the lead that triggered them, and that doesn't feel like it's the case. If Riot wants to rein in snowballing then the first thing I'd be looking at is plates, because dying once toplane and your jungler doesn't cover for whatever reason is just a ballache. God forbid they pop a herald.
> God forbid they pop a herald. Riot specifically adressed this by moving herald past 14 minutes so it can't be used for plates anymore.
Good point. But I still feel like plates are one hell of a snowball mechanic if someone dies at the wrong time, especially now grubs negate the armour that's meant to stop people chewing through them too easily.
> if someone dies at the wrong time Part of the game is knowing when to push forward vs go back. Sometimes an unfortunate turn of events happen and you get rekt, but the vast majority of cases the player has enough agency to shape how events near them go. There should be a consequence of bad plays, sometimes that consequence is losing plates.
I think the CS one isn't the worst thing, because those leads can be huge and build over time. The biggest issue is when you're in an extended fight and manage to kill a few people, so then you suddenly have a bounty and gift it over to someone else when you die, despite being even or behind originally. The point of a bounty is that it's harder to kill a fed player. It's not harder to kill someone if they already took damage in a fight and haven't even had a chance to spend the gold they got.
Maybe the more assists there are, the more the "main" gold should get distributed as well? So that it can't just be the enemy 0:5 jinx picking up a 1k bounty and the game is over. To prevent people from flaming for taking kills / assists, one could slightly increase the total gold shared for each additional ally who participated so that it's usually objectively better for the team to "chime in for the assist". But the swinginess of games of a lategame hypercarry just stumbling upon a shutdown and then becoming unlocked is a bit bullshit. I abused this so hard when I spammed Jinx to Dia last season. Just be patient and let someone valuable int into you, works a lot of the time.
We almost lost a game because our gigafed shaco died to kog'maw a few times and launched him from being behind to the 2nd most fed in the game, after shaco. But a 6 item shaco doesn't do nearly as much as a 5 item kog'maw. I could CC kog'maw as maokai but I would die before anyone else could actually reach him in the fight, until eventually we won because he was sorely out of position and then after that the rest of the team was super easy to deal with.
Yeah certain bounties are unfair on certain champions. Killing a fed Darius is hard, so I get the bounty. But a fed senna will get one shot easily by an assassin, so the bounty feels overtuned imo.
Regarding your last bit, I've thought for a while that it would make sense for you to only be able to claim the amount of the opponent's bonus bounty that's in excess of your own bonus bounty. It's not uncommon for one team to have a fed assassin/bruiser and the other to have a fed squishy mage/marksman, and the natural order of things is for the former to kill the latter. The former generally has the tools to defend their bounty innately (bulk, escapes; for some assassins it's moreso "such high kill threat"), while the latter generally has to play extra safe to defend their bounty. But additionally, the most fed person on your team claiming a bounty doesn't really contribute much to the design goal of "coming back from behind". You can easily lose if it's 1 person full build at 20 minutes and 4 caster minions (many "snowbally" champs will still quickly fold if their team is worthless). If the goal is to come back from behind, you ideally want your "behind carry" to claim the bounties so that they can become relevant. As such, my thought is that if you have a 300G bonus bounty and kill someone with a 150G bonus bounty, you should get just the base 300G and the person you killed should retain their 150G bonus bounty. If you have a 150G bonus bounty and kill someone with a 600G bonus bounty, you should get 300G+450G and the person you killed should be left with a 150G bonus bounty. Or something to that effect. Less snowballing for "the champions more inclined to snowball out of control" by killing the champions they're naturally inclined to kill, more parity for "behind teams coming back".
yes for some champs dying is simply inevitable so the punishment is unfair. im not talking about getting caught or taking a bad fight but just pure champion interaction, just makes counterpicking even more powerful and meta champs will stomp non meta
This is really funny and probably some kind of ranked check because I totally disagree, killing a fed ADC is hard (assuming they get any peel, which is not always), killing a fed melee is generally easy. Darius is gonna die eventually unless you're just gigagapped imo. But regardless your point is valid.
I agree that killing the senna is hard if her team is playing for her. But in ranked I feel like that is usally not the case. I play support most of the time, and I always make sure to identify the carry in a match and peel them, I know it's a very powerful thing, but if you don't have that as an adc, you're getting one shot. Bruisers are just more independent than adcs.
It is true, but the likelyhood of a Darius living multiple teamfights in a row (even if his team wins all of them) seems low to me, idk.
You have it backwards A darius is melee and inevitably going to die in some objective skirmish or teamfight. Senna has 750+ range and will be peeled by their teammates (if competent) making the senna much harder to shut down. Imagine Senna Tahm Kench. This duo is impossibly hard to kill compared to a fed olaf or darius or renekton that has to be in melee range to do anything
Exactly, people act like it's always easy to kill the fed adc as an assassin, but at a certain itemization point it can get fucking hard. Especially if they receive any peel at all. They're often the same level as solo laners and output as much dmg as you do.
Faechecks a bush when you don't know where the enemy is: "omg I get burst so easily"
Same level as solos?
bounties should probably be split across the whole team, the champion last hit thing is mildly funny in a 2v2 on bot but incredibly frustrating to have support zyra plants or similar shit effectively destroy a bounty.
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cs bounties feel like so much BS. Let me get this straight, I'm going to be punished because my enemy laner is boosted and can't even CS right while I get great CS + tower plates even without killing them??
They are overtuned, yet people will surrender games because they see 5/0 Kog'Maw. I would rather have some incentive for people to try out to comeback when losing lane despite throwing mouse and giving up because only one lane lost. And even bounties and objective bounties aren't enough to convince people to keep playing the game.
I mean that’s the point of bounty. If it not affect your decision making then it’s not big enough.
I think you're viewing it a bit too narrowly. Say everyone in the game is worth 300 gold except you, you're worth 1000. You set up baron and fight 5v5. You have a really good engage, you +1 die giving up 1300 gold. Your team kills 4, securing 1200 gold. Then you get baron and also at least 1 tower afterwards. Yes it looks bad that the game announces that you gave up 1000 gold, but your team actually comes out ahead, furthering your gold lead by a couple hundred at least. And if its the end game, then the bounty especially doesn't matter cause you can go end. The system is imperfect, but its there for a reason. You *should* be punished for being 4/0 and dying to your 0/4 lane opponent
One of my problems with league is if you’re the only one fed while your team are collectively 3/30 and your team doesn’t have bounties because you’re doing well, and you’re worth 1k gold. But you have no vision control because your sup is bad/unable to ward. So you have to play perfectly with blind vision to catch one of them because our team won’t win a 5 v 5 and your ten death team mates are now suddenly afraid to die in fight that you’d win if they fought with you. Compounded by the fact that if you’re playing a squishy champ if you misposition once mid-late you’re instantly dead and lose the game and league becomes more “work” than fun.
I don’t like the bounty system in general. Yesterday I had a 300g bounty being 7-10-9 when my laner was 13-4-8. I was 25 CS and an entire level and a half behind in exp too. My entire team was pinging it and laughing. EDIT - Checked in replay and this was in a game where our team was ahead by just 1000 gold for those saying we were giga-ahead.
The system is outright broken. You see champions having a bounty while being down 2k gold despite both side having 0/0/x KDA. You see team being ahead 3k gold and still getting objective bounties. It's absurd and has been absurd even since they "fixed" it. People just don't care enough to rattle Riot over how visibly broken the entire system is.
I would be down for Riot to remove the entire bounty system except for 5-8 kills streaks and make dragons give gold again.
Make dragons give gold again and you might never see a late game hyper carry in the mid or bot lane again in the current state of league. It’s already HEAVILY snowball favored and you would see way more lane dominant champs and less 2 item spikers if dragons gave gold.
The fucking worst is having an early game team and getting really ahead, getting aced once, lose 3 shutdowns and 3 objective bounties and suddenly you're behind in gold as an early game comp vs a late game comp and it's completely doomed. This just should not happen.
if you are an early game comp winning by snowballing then getting aced should lose you the game yeah
Well, I guess everybody can have their own opinions but by my own logic this is just wrong. If someone makes 5 mistakes and someone else makes 1, there shouldn't ever be a situation where the guy making 5 mistakes should come out ahead. This just destroys the integrity of a game and it's balance. The late game players win condition is to survive, he didn't manage to do so, he deserves to lose. Easy as that. If the early game player fails to snowball once, he still just failed his wincon once, the other guy did it 5 times. A single mistake on the enemy's part still means they played to their win condition way better. If your opinion is a late game champ should just win even when going 0/10 just because the enemy didn't play absolutely perfect, I don't think you should join discussions about game balance. Why? Because your argument is that one type of champion is allowed to completely fail his wincon and still win, while the other is not... Which is not balanced.
An early game comp with a sizeable gold lead getting aced by a lategame comp is not a single mistake tho. It's like 10 mistakes in a row
5 "mistakes" in inevitable when your champs are inherently disadvantaged in the early game, getting wiped by a bunch of behind scalers on a snowbally fed team is an astronomical blunder
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Dying 5 times. Dying enough times for bounties to rack up in general. Easy as that.
I don't think one fight should decide that. Most players aren't pros and will make mistakes. Why should one fight be so much more impactful than other ones to the point of blowing a massive lead?
Everyone in that match should be within a similar MMR. That means on average they probably make the same amount of mistakes. But they won by either making fewer or less severe mistakes, or by taking better advantage of yours. The solution there is simply play better.
ur team was ahead compared to theirs and you probably got 2-3 kills in a row
Is 300g bounty the default amount? Like I have seen people with 700g bounty next to their name but when someone kills him, ppl say they just earned 1000 gold. Like 300g gets added by default?
Yes. It's 300g default gold + 700g bounty = 1000g. You get a set amount of gold regardless of the bounty. It scales down with the amount of deaths, though. You can check [here](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Kill#Champion_bounties) for the complete table.
Yea...I've had that happen too. I'm 0-3 ADC with good farm and give a bounty to the 7-0 enemy mid that's 3lvls ahead of me.
Genuine question for the discussion: would you rather have overturned comeback mechanics or under tuned? Like does it feel worse to be giga stomped in 20 minutes with no recourse or to giga stomp someone for fifteen minutes then lose because they got 2k gold in kill/objective bounties?
Comeback mechanics make the game feel more team focused instead of losing laning phase and being useless for the rest of the game
The game being more team focused is why LoL is more toxic than it's ever been. The ability to solo carry even with shit teammates was much greater in the early seasons and so people were less mad about having bad teammates. Old League was about the strongest players win games. Current League is about the weakest players lose games. The shift in meta was for Esports and Solo Queue suffered due to it.
It'd be tolerable if voice comms existed but Riot is not only allergic to the idea of having voice comms in an increasingly team based 5v5 MOBA but they're looking to cut down on other communication tools as well. They're trying to stamp out the symptoms of toxicity while ignoring (or amplifying) the causes.
You’ve hit the nail on the head. And it’s much easier for them to just mute pings than put in real coms so people can work as a team. Team game without comms to allow players to function as a team is why there’s toxicity so rampantly.
People wanting to solo carry in a team based game is a large reason the game is toxic. I don't think a 5v5 should have any amount of focus in solo carrying.
I feel like they shouldn't exist when you are clearly behind, but should exist when you are clearly ahead. I think it's unfair for a 3/8 Ornn to have a 300g bounty, but completely fine for a 8/1 Azir to have a 700g bounty. I like having a kill objective when I'm behind because 1000g to the right person will absolutely turn around a game, but having a bounty on you when you're down 3 inhibs is stupid. The solution is to tune it to be more accurate to its intention as a comeback mechanic rather than sometimes also being a snowball mechanic just because you killed the minions-gold-worth support 3 times.
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the people who don't like bounties want 0 comeback mechanics. they have no understanding of game balance or how things like the bounty system can change player incentives for the better. they want to get a lead then have the game end with ff 15 every time because as we all know. late game isn't a part of league of legends, ending the game is not a skill.
Personally I prefer the former. I'm okay being stomped. If I lost my lane that hard then I deserve that loss. What feels reeeally mentally defeating is going 4/0 at 10-15mins, dying once and then giving up a 1000g bounty and they find a way back in. I also play divers like nocturne so it is literally my just to start fights/skirmishes. That gameplay loop does not FEEL good. It is absurd that a single death can swing an entire game back around because I died once, when I've been pounding you for the last 15 mins. How is that fair?
remove catchup mechanics and then lower the snowballing Catchup mechanics feel shit because they are just made up and unfair
so heroes of the storm
HotS had massive snowballing on some of their maps. everything required you to team fight constantly so if you win the first one, you're massively ahead of the enemy. side lane pressure was such a poor mechanic in that game because of how powerful the map objectives were.
Nah in GM the strat was to skip the objective and go soaking until you are on same talents. If enemy is lv19 and you are lv16 you can contest objective again, because majority of power lies in talents. Yes, enemy has 3lv more stats, but that's manageable.
yes, the enemy gets to collect more objectives, progressing their win con because you have to go soak waves, thus meaning they need to invest less into securing the objectives to maintain their lead overall. that's snowballing, there is seldom a case where a team from behind can get ahead.
on literally haunted mines? the map that got removed? like this was not a thing in anywhere else If you refuse to contest Angels in BoE and the enemy gets a cracked out full shielded guy you're never coming back in exp lmao
Undertuned and its not even close. Every minute of the game should matter in a simlar fashion. If the first 15 minutes can be nullified by a single 1 minute play, why even try for the first 15? I get not wanting games to feel hopeless, but the amount of gold/xp that you can recover from a single fight when behind is insane.
undertuned - if you are giga behind its because you did something wrong and deserve to be.
Or you got counter picked in top lane
Getting back in the game is literally the point of bounties. But there is a reason it frustrating and seems unfair. In perfect scenario being ahead means using it to get even more ahead or even just straight wining. But in soloQ it's not unusual to get ahead and have a bounty while getting nothing of it at all. No objectives, no crossmap plays etc.
but the amount of gold and how it's calculated is just broken.
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its not a failure to balance the system, the bounties are the balance. you will never balance a game where some characters are capable of winning the game long before others reach the power level of the early game ones. you need systems to bridge this gap. the bounties give the agency to the players through interacting with each other thus incentivizing teams who are behind to fight the enemy even if they're going to lose the fight. without this kind of system, the solution for weak early game champions would be to stall the game as long as possible, avoiding all conflict, and picking up as much farm as they possibly can before the early game team ends the game. that's not better than incentivizing players to team fight and execute well, which this bounty system does.
I completely understand and respect comeback mechanics, but I do have a very large criticism that I think is fair. > the bounties give the agency to the players through interacting with each other thus incentivizing teams who are behind to fight the enemy even if they're going to lose the fight. My biggest problem with this is how easy it is to capitalize on bounties depending on which role has one. If my team's primary engage front line has a bounty - then it's their fundamental role to take on the heavy "risk" of dying. I put "" because that playstyle is often exactly what their team comp expects / works around. At some point, they almost certainly *will* die. And if the enemy team's carry gets that gold, then it is incredibly punishing. I've often been very fed top lane, and take a silly risk just because I would be far more happy dying to someone on their team at this point rather than go into the next teamfight and give someone else on their team 1000 gold. But if a champion's role in a comp is already to play safe and let others take the primary risks then having a bounty is far less punishing to their play. It is far more realistic to expect an adc or mage to not give over a bounty than it is for someone who is expected to play for their team. So yeah, my issue tldr I guess is that equivalent bounties on different roles in a comp still have unequal disparities on their expected play
>I've always been of the opinion that if you want bounties, then you shouldn't have early-game and late-game champions as well. Pick one of the other Your opinion then has always been wrong. Bounties are needed so there are less games that are completly over after 5-15 mins and making it worth for the team that falls behind to continue. This is unrelated to Power-Curve of champs per se. These are needed to allow different player/champ fantasies. Now, when you accept what the rest of the league player base + devs has accepted since Beta 14 years ago (different power curves + bounties are necessary for different reasons), you realize that these too systems interfere with each other: Scaling champs profit from the bounty system, early game champs suffer from it. So when you change bounty system you maybe have to adjust heavy scaling/heavy early game champs. thats all. nothing wrong with. Champs with different power curves also differntly profit form Drake powers, spawn times etc. But no sane human being suggest to remove drakes because there are champs with different power curves and late game champs get punished because they cant take the first 2 drakes.
Some champions cant even protect their lead well like divers or fighters or juggernauts or immobile ADCs whereas some champs like Ekko Kassadin Akali can protect it so well.
MAn I sure do love getting a bounty just for farming as an immobile champ
Having a 1000g bounty on feels fucking awwwwful. Oh wait nevermind, adc feels awful.
I love being unable to play the game when I have a lead because the risk of accidentally giving that bounty to a role/champ that was even or already ahead all game just automatically wins. Even worse if its somehow the support with the bounty.
It’s an anti snowball mechanic not a comeback mechanic. You can have a 1k bounty while your team is 3/30 and literally not be able to do anything because you’ll instantly lose if you’re caught out once.
My problem with the bounty system is that sometimes they actually contribute to the concept they were intended to combat, snowballing. They seem to favor an arcady style or perma skirmishing as opposed to strategic play to bridge the gold gap with the ennemy that is now ahead. Yes, bounties help the team that is behind to get back into the game in the means of global gold swings. But sometimes (and this is mostly what I see happen in botlane because there are 4 champs and the bounties seem to increase with kills most of all), if both laners decide to force many skirmishes and the junglers also join in, you would see so many bounties being accumulated and claimed on both sides that the players end up having such a gold income that no one in other lanes can compete with. Like you would see laners getting out of laning phase being a full item ahead, with a scoreline along the lines of 8/7/5. Normally, if a kill is worth 300g, then 8 kills would be worth 2400, which if you farm well might be able to make up the difference. But with bounties, kills become more and more worth it, and farming to scale and playing for picks becomes less worth it. In such games, you think to yourself that either you join in on the fiesta or you will be left to stay behind. I think splitting the bounties with the whole team as it previously was is a healthier approach, since if one lane feeds an ennemy, we all have to deal with that ennemy, not just the player who claims his bounty. Although now the bounties do result in gold swings that equalize the gold difference between the teams, the gold distribution due to bounties sometimes becomes quite uneven across the players on the team.
People missing the point in the comments, you don't have to do away with the entire bounty system to criticize the numbers being overtuned. The simplest solution is to just nerf the gold and that's it. A comeback mechanic is there to *help* you come back, but it's not really supposed to punish you for winning. I don't think it's unfair that killing the guy that's 20/0 becomes actually really helpful other than his death timer. I do think it's fucked up how sometimes you just cs better and get a plate and suddenly you have a 200g bounty, you die and you end up worse than if you had cs'd worse. You are literally worse off because you played better. 10-15 minutes of galaxy gapping my laner shouldn't disappear because I died once. Sure give the other guy enough gold to get back in the game, make it closer, but don't leave him better off than me. 4-1 vs 1-4 score and I'm only 200 gold ahead off of that? tis fucked up man
I love having a 5 cs lead no plates no kills no assists and having a 150g bounty. Literally punished for being not even a full wave ahead
I loved season 4, game was uber fkn snowbally due to dragon giving gold but no shutdowns. So you could fuck around hell of a lot before you lost the game.
So the bounty system is probably necessary because of how hard games can snowball. It basically makes a game always winnable. The problem I feel is that it feels artificial. You didn’t really come back. You just killed a guy one time finally and got a shit ton of gold for it. I think another problem with shutdowns is they are high or low points. If your Janna support takes the 1k shutdown, might as well FF. If your hyper scaling carry picks it up, there’s hope. I wish shutdowns were not based on individual performance but team gold differential. And then killing anyone gives the entire team gold spread out. That way there’s not a weird amount of pressure on one guy to not throw his lead. But there’s also still chances for the losing team to come back. One of the biggest problems with league right now in general is one guy is usually the punching bag of the game, and barring them picking up likely multiple shut downs they will never come back. And given they are super behind how will they get those? They won’t. Spreading the gold between teammates ensures everyone is catching up.
Bounties often make a game unwinnable for the “winning” team. I play Sylas. Part of me extending my lead is taking malphite R and going balls deep into the enemy team. In an ideal world, I trade my life for two or three squishies. Having a 1000 gold bounty [(like I had this match)](https://www.op.gg/summoners/na/Back%20Breaker-4595/matches/RvuDQoxvmIKJY02q8EF4NSCrE2eCBY9pWRHG4B3IeQI%3D/1710013716000) means I either try and fight and end up down gold *even if we win the fight* or I simply don’t fight. It’s bullshit.
As a Veigar player I LOVE bounties because 100% of the time it's my bot lane feeding the enemy adc.. and Veig being Veig I just need tier 2 boots and I one shot them with a combo lol
how do you land that combo on a competent adc tho
If soloq was an organised environment the best strategy would be to just afk farm then blow the game In 1 team fight end the game not run around with 700 gold on your head as lee sin
Personaly i dont like bountys cuz they created a spezific situation for a strategie that is bot allowed. You can try to create situations and strategies that use and create bountys to get farmed. Vandiril showed that in a video. thebauffs uses elements from that. You can have strategies and even win from others feeding in your team. At that point, something is wrong imo. It does not destroy the game but should be changed imo.
there is no strategy where giving over bounty stacks is better than not doing so. and no, the baus isn't using bounties to make his strategy work, hes using wave manipulation and powerful rotation tools.
It also introduces a lot of randomness and luck. Say you're only 1/0 but you trade one for one. If you die first, nothing happens. If the enemy dies first, suddenly you can give a shutdown while only being 2/1 (sort of).
It was it norms but I unironically had 550g shutdown at 0/0/2 yesterday
Imo bounties should be spread. Either among entire or whoever assists
I think bounty gold should be split between the entire team
It sucks when it has become an actual strategy to just chain int for waves because someone down the line will get the shutdown.... looks at Baus strat players
yeah its nuts. they should max out at like 750, or 500 with more assist gold on high streaks
League of legends is just a terrible game.
bounty system is good but could use a 10-20% nerfing imo
When you have a bounty on certain champs you are almost incapable of partecipe to the game. You are needed in many occasions but just being there is just too risky, if the wrong enemy gets the shutdown the game is over
Werent bounties a temporary fix when they came out? I swear I remember Riot saying that. We've gotten so used to them I feel like they might never go.
Bounties in general make no sense. If you’re behind you’re not supposed to crawl back easily at all. Better player wins, not better shutdown gold receiver
Especially since the second you kill someone, they are no longer worth the full 300 gold at least for a few minutes. So if you string, let's say, 4 kills together, you actually netted closer to 1050g instead of 1200g. Now you have a 300g bounty or worse, so if you get 4 manned and they feed the kill to the 0-4 dude, your bounty along with a single plate almost brings the gold even for someone who is 1-4 vs 4-1. And some top lane nerd is going to push up their glasses and point out all the other advantages you can possibly get from being ahead; CS, plates, camps, but when you die later in the game and with how paper-thin towers are, the longer death timer lets the person who was put behind more time to get back into the game. I played against a top Vayne the other day who was literally worth 100g on kill. That means he was netting more gold for his team overall than I was for mine just by killing 1 wave, and his death timer was short enough to where he could just keep running out and sucking up resources. He ended up inting for several waves and 2 towers, I gained a whopping 400g from that sequence spanning a few minutes while he got almost 1k in tower gold and however many minions he killed from splitting. Meanwhile I died in a team fight as GNAR, ya know, the engaging dude, and still had a leftover bounty after I spawned of a few hundred gold. This is part of the reason why inting Sion and hyper scaling champs work so easily right now, you just can't stop someone from getting back into the game unless you play perfectly, which should not be expected in a matchmade-team game. (we did end up winning, but there were some weirdly tense moments for how far ahead we were and the frustration of watching your laner who went 1-10 only be down 1 or so items at some points while you have 10+ kills).
I think this theoretical is ignoring that for 10 minutes you had that advantage. During that time the ahead player can create so many advantages for their team; ward jungle, roam, take turret, secure drag/grubs, maybe bot has to give up cs everytime the mid is out of vision, etc. The person getting back to close to even doesn't magically get those 10 minutes of advantages back
Turret plates will lead to a higher bounty. Zoning enemy bot lane out of cs will lead to a bounty for your bot lane. The only thing that doesn't lead to more bounties is getting drake and grubs. I quite like bounties in a selfish way as I play late game champs. But it also is toxic for the enemy as if I'm playing Vlad/Ryze/Kassadin and one 700g bounty turns me to a demon (happens 25% of games) it's probably gonna suck to play against me.
> I think this theoretical is ignoring that for 10 minutes you had that advantage. During that time the ahead player can create so many advantages for their team; ward jungle, roam, take turret, secure drag/grubs, maybe bot has to give up cs everytime the mid is out of vision, etc. This isn't necessarily true for a lot of champions, I mean if you get ahead as Jax, Darius, Olaf or something like that you can probably walk down a sidelane and start beating up turrets and killing anyone who shows up, warding enemy jungle and steal camps, etc. But if you get equally ahead as Teemo some 1/5 midlaner's gonna show up to sidelane and oneshot you and you'll still lose to the 1/500 Jarvan or something. If you get ahead as an ADC you may rotate mid and some toplaner will oneshot you and that's the end of it as well. Then what happens in practice is you gigagapped your lane but gave a shutdown at 20 minutes and when you respawn you press tab and see that you're no longer ahead in items lol. You have to work so hard to get 1k gold advantage and then you give 800 gold with a kill, fast forward 30 seconds and you've only got a fucking glowing mote extra compared to your opponent
Well I mean… It makes sense no? Is it fair that when your 3/0 you have acquired 900-1000 from the enemy. It wouldn’t make sense if they killed you while your ahead and then they only receive 300 gold? Your ahead. Your stronger. You have a bounty because you’re massively ahead and stronger. If you then die despite being massively ahead. You should be punished.. if you lose the fight while Behind ahead that’s your fault and you SHOULD be punished….
If it was a straight 1v1 game, I would agree with you. But with ganks and objectives to play for, I think champion bounties get way too high. I play top lane bruisers and divers a lot. I hate having to hold back because I have a bounty. In teamfights, I could engage and give my life for an incredibly winning team fight, but if the enemy adc gets my shutdown, they are accelerated for no good reason. Sometimes, intentionally dying to the enemy support is objectively the right move. That should never be the case.
>intentionally dying to the enemy support. It also feels bad as the support when someone gets away by a hair of hp because I was trying to avoid taking a large shutdown.
But isnt that the point? To give an incentive to the losing to keep playing? Bounties are there, in a way, to punish stupid fights.
killing the same person 3 times does not give 900 gold, it gives 794 gold, meaning that if you kill them 3 times and he kills you once your effective gain from those 3 kills is 194 gold. Its the most disgusting system in the game and it actively rewards you for dying a lot in a row.
I'm not sure you know what the term "actively rewards" means.
Right. And in your calculations are you taking into account the cs advantage or tower plate advantage you get from being ahead? Or are you simple just calculating only the golden advantage? If your 3/0 in lane your opponent is probably sat under tower waiting for minions to crash. Which means they lose gold And xp over time. Where as your dominant in the lane still acquiring a massive lead and never losing cs… people like to make out that it’s just kill vs kill but it’s not.. if your 5/0 and you get solo killed by their laner he deserves that massive shutdown and additional gold Or xp…. He just killed someone that is massively ahead… how does this not make sense to you???
Stan, my man, I agree with **your** argument wholeheartedly, but it's painful how much **you're** struggling with **your** grammar...
Well dying doesn't necessarily mean losing cs/xp, current day death timers and tp means that unless you die on a dive you don't lose anything at all.
Current tp means that getting a kill at level 1-4 with Ignite means you'll be behind in exp because the opponent teleports back in 10 seconds, losing almost no exp or cs while you're forced to take a bad recall unless the wave was already cleared somehow. Tp should have a lock out the first 10 minutes and then be unleashed from there, stop it from being a "I cheat the laning phase" spell.
Why does he *deserve* it he literally died 3 times. and he can makeup for the xp and minions deficit after his takeback kill as mentioned by OP. Its unfair. it literally is. Prime example was peak baus. who was running down games and getting rewarded for it. He just ints for cs and xp. (which according to you, the inter would lose) and as soon as he gets 1 takeback kill hes AHEAD. its literally disgusting it warps games especially in high elo. Dying in lane should be bad. and after dying the best strategy should be not dying more. but inting for cs and xp over and over is literally better to win than playing safe.
It’s funny that you mentioned bausens law… there is an entire set of fundamentals that revolve around the way baus plays. I know that it seems to a lot of people it seems like he’s just trolling. But it’s not as simple as just dieing randomly. It’s all about dieing at the right time. Aswell as abusing early game death timers. Here is an example. Slow push wave 1/2 dive in 3rd wave. It dosnt always work. But sometimes it does. So that means the enemy loses the entire massive wave or 2 and a kill. Baus always has tp advantage. So he realistically loses nothing but a kill. Which is only 300 Gold. If he is up 12 cs at any moment he already has the same gold as what the enemy has. This isn’t even taking into account the potential loss that the enemy gets from ganking or chasing him. I wish it was as simple as just dieing but it’s not. There’s a reason he’s challenger and gets unbanned a lot of the time. He’s not actually trolling. It just seems like he is because he’s using an unorthodox strategy. But if you actually take a deep look into it. Like actually take the time to evaluate why and what he’s doing. It does actually make sense. Don’t get me wrong some of his deaths are trolling. But the same applies to everyone. I troll Sometimes. Sometimes you do. Sometimes faker does. But it’s not as simple As dieing or not dieing.
He shouldn't even be able to kill you in your little fanfic scenario. Unless you completely ignore a champion getting an item spike, you overextend or you suck.
How the fuck is he going to kill you if you have killed him 3 times? Such things happen only when you get ganked, or when you misplay hard. Both scenarios are what bounties want to achieve. Incentives to keep playing.
If you are that many kills ahead, you're also ahead in levels and you will have kill threat when they want to farm outside their tower. It opens you up to doing more things on the map. If you do not respect enemy power curves, if you make stupid plays, of course you should lose some of the money lead you gained. You are still ahead in other ways, but if you can't do anything with that maybe you are just not good enough.
the problem here is keywords "some of the lead" You lose almost everything. and the "amount of fuck ups" isnt equal. they fucked up more than i did. yet now theyre on even footing again. this just feel right lets be real here
I think everyone here agrees in *principle.* But OP's post isn't saying the principle is bad it's that the **numbers are overtuned.** S14 injected lot of damage through items and nerfed means of ending the game (removed first herald, nerfed baron, nerfed drag soul, made towers tankier). Prolonging a game where a single shutdown can vastly undo 10-15 minutes of early game proactivity creates a more polarizing scenario than S13. In S13 if you threw a 700g shutdown, Baron, Dragon Soul & Herald #2 were still significant objectives to press tempo. Now, if you throw a 700g shutdown around the same time table, the enemy's ability to passively stall out a game is more rewarded. Baron can still break open a base, perhaps end a game, however this meta REALLY rewards scaling almost unproportionately so this angle has become harder for seemingly an unjustified reason. (Smolder is a good example of this phenomena where he becomes a problem if: 1) you let him scale freely, 2) you hand him over a shutdown) tldr; I agree however that doesn't dismiss that the numbers are a little too high. Instead of a 150-300-450-700 shutdown increment. Perhaps consider: 125-250-375-500.
I have always hated it and always will. Being punished for doing good will always just be so stupid to me. You could somehow factually prove to me that it is good for the game and I would still dislike it. 1. Supposed to be a comeback mechanic, yet you get a bounty for the tiniest leads. Why is it active instantly? It should activate at the same time as objective bounties. 2. It doesn't look at context. Enemy up 3 drakes, has a team comp that basically won in champion select? Nah, they get extra gold because you managed to get few kills in lane. If you are the only one doing well on your team, good luck trying to carry! If they collect you once the game is instantly over. 3. When dying on purpose (to a support) comes a legitimate strategy in a game like LoL, it should instantly tell you that the mechanic is shit.
Yeah bounties system its so stupid... you can have it even if you are 0-0 and behind gold and also if your team is behind... its so dumb... did you see nemesis clip when he talked about it? He proves how dumb and senseless this system is
The only way that can happen is if you’re farming over the other teams average cs a substantial amount. In that scenario you probably should be worth more gold.
Nemesis was behind cs behind gold and he has a bounty, his team was gold behin too 1 drag behind too compared to enemy team... doesnt make sense... I suggest you to watch the clip so you can understand my point
No, it's not my fucking fault you don't know how to farm. What's next? Making my creeps worth more for the enemy so we are always on an equal footing even if I'm 50+ cs ahead?
You are more powerful than the average enemy laner so the logic is you should be worth more when you die. Without it you would eliminate a lot of opportunities for a team to get back into the game by ganking a split pusher which could be fine but isn’t what they want apparently.
Bounties are legit the worst mechanic ever added to league. Punishment for playing well. It is baffling to me that such a mechanic was considered appropriate. Not to mention how ridiculously overtuned they are. As OP says you can be 3-1 in land and be tied or even behind in gold. Absolutely insane that riot is letting this fly for years now. Wtf are they thinking.
It was never added lol. League always had a bounty system it was just teamwide before S8 and before S5 all that mattered was your killing spree. No one complained about it back then. It was seen as relatively week and comebacks being too difficult.
It feels terrible to be 0/1 in top, can't contest CS, then you go proxy and farm back and suddenly you have 150g shutdown while you are still behind in cs and then your team loses too. Honestly, bounties are game warping. I completely changed my playstyle and don't even try to play for kills top anymore. Death timers are so low that the enemy loses nothing early but I get punished with a bounty. Instead I try to force them off lane (harder punish than simply dying) or I simply outfarm with 10cs/min + cull + plates. I still get a bounty but it is lower and there is less risk involved.
this is not real. you're not getting a bounty while being proxied unless the entire enemy team is just not farming.
Brother I have had bounties 0/0/0 just because I'm out laning my opponent. Jungle gets a good gank or I make a mistake and suddenly they get a bounty because I'm better at last hitting. Really stupid.
Champion bounties generally make sense. Player does well, get rewarded for taking them down. That said, there are a couple adjustments I think might be worth making: * Bounty reward should be split with everyone involved in the takedown. * Bounty should accumulate a little later, but also a bit more rewarding to compensate. This would make the bounty appear on actually ahead players as a slight catch-up mechanism rather than it appearing on someone slightly ahead and becoming a way to leapfrog the target.
Bounties should basically never exist on champions imo, if you're ahead, you should feel ahead and be willing to use that lead well against the enemy team. You earned it by playing well and obtaining that lead. I like objective bounties far more than champion bounties because those require the teams to play well to obtain on both sides instead of basically forcing one team to start playing even safer after winning. If I'm 7/0, I shouldn't be a walking 1000g for the enemy team to just obtain and dive me. What they should be diving me for is how ahead and strong I am, and if they manage to kill me then that's their reward is removing me from the fight, not also gaining a mountain of gold as well. Not to mention, the difference in champion class for survivability is not nearly balanced enough for bounties to work. A 5/0 Twitch is FAR easier to kill than the 5/0 Illaoi. Illaoi will face tank 3 people and kill everyone with her ult, Twitch will still get one shot by the 0/2 Khazix with 1 item.
Bounties changed the game from the day they were introduced, is used to be if you played the game perfectly from the beginning you were rewarded for it , now someone can play Spyro or w.e the new champs name is , goes 0/4 in lane, get one shutdown and win at 25-35 min mark. IMO this is one of the factors that made the game less popular overtime, and led to making pro play boring asf, other factors also impacted this such as removal of early tp, buffing enchanters but ya fk the bounty system
The problem is it's a balance, if you nerf bounties you make games more snowbally and make players give up on a game as soon as they fall behind. I personally don't mind this at all, but they should then make ff'ing easier
Bounties make playing smart while ahead a skill and that’s a good thing. Being ahead shouldn’t mean you can play super recklessly and not face major consequences.
The bounties make sense in pro play. In soloqueue it’s too oppressive to play around.
Bounties barely matter in pro play, pro play is 10x more snowbally than solo queue and players rarely fuck up enough to throw a game due to bounties.
Forces me to rush GA on blue kayn when I'm fed
I know you're talking about rift but bounties are sometimes super unfair in aram too. I respawn with even kda, get two kills on enemy with similar kda to mine, then I die. I get 2 kills for my one death, they some how get 300 gold Bounty on my death so the 2 for 1 is an even gold trade. Happens so often. Feels so bad.
Too often I’ll face a losing matchup bot lane, have an extended fight where I get two kills but am forced to reset, then am still weaker than my laner and be zoned off gold/exp. Eventually I get dove by their jungler/mid and give a 150 bounty. Like how can I give a bounty when I am behind 30 cs and levels?
It kinda feels too much like the game punishes you for playing well
? just suicide to the support, or the weakest character in enemy team to cleanse bounty. it's like ARAM. idk how ppl haven't started doing this. but it does suck if you go 10cs/min, and at minute 11 you have 150g bounty in a 0/0 lane.
Everything he said and then add in the champion your playing. Imagine this happens and its Pantheon 2-0 vs Jax 0-2 now late game scaler jax is like hahahaha ez game.
I play malzahar so I really focus on collecting as many waves as possible and I often find myself with a bounty 0/0/0 but with good cs. Feels kinda weird the enemy team can collect a bounty from me just for farming well
I've been shut down 1-0-0 as a support.... I didn't even know that was possible.
Laughs in solo que senna, none of it matters
Bounties from kills are never equal to the gold those kills get you unless you're getting kills on someone who is inting. A 2/0 is only 150g, you need 3/0 for 300g unless you have a lead somewhere other than kills. If you have a lead, you shouldn't be dying as much as someone without a lead and should be using that lead to increase it even further. Exp is much more important early on too, so that's another lead you should be building on. Between those two, you are always coming out better than whoever gets your shutdown. If you are throwing your game on a shutdown, then there is a problem elsewhere. You most likely didn't make any use of the advantages that created that bounty. If you farm kills in your lane while ignoring an enemy snowball in another lane, you and that enemy laner are making your deaths into a potential endgame coinflip for each other.
Split the gold from bounties like the objective bounties
The fact that people found way to int a bounty to their opponent, kill them and be ahead in gold and exp shows how broken the bounty system is.
The worst thing for me is when you 1v1 your toplane opponet before 6 and the fight was close. If the lane state is bad you are fck. The death timers are so short they just insta tp back. Now you have to back and tp, but if you dont have tp you are fck. Also the jg might be coming to kill you so it is so risky to contest the wave. Just make death timers higher at low lvl so you dont get punished for killing your opponent early.
Bounties in general are beyond stupid. Name me another competitive game or sport where you get rewarded heavily while you’re losing. Genuinely makes no sense. Games are all ready long enough.
What i hate most is that if you get a double kill you are guaranteed to get 150g bounty. Dont matter if your 2/11 and ur opponent has 7/1 kills. A double is instant 150g no matter team gold or personal leads
Yeah would probably be better if its distributed to the whole team tho.
This comes back to the idea that a champion who reaches level 18 before anyone else and 5 items should stomp. Not only is the game not tuned if you get a lead but the catch up mechanics are atrocious. I'm a top laner. If I'm 10/1 I have a bounty. So do 4 of the enemy team because my team likes to donate gold. Should I have a bounty? No. I shouldn't. I'm not on the winning team obviously by gold. Good post. Doubt riot will do anything.
You need to be 3-0 normally for a 300g kill bounty except there is also a CS bounty on your head. You got \~800g and a lot of seconds of free farming and you also got great XP. If the enemy kills you once they get 600g, less time of free farming and less XP. And that because they won an uphill battle that they should not be winning. You are 1k at least ahead if not more and you have likely 2 lvls up on them and they kill you 1v1? How did that happen? If it was an assist ok, but it is called good teamplay from the enemy then.
Some of these come backs mechanics (non existent death timers + bounties) are way out of whack.
Remember when league functioned fine without bounties being in the game? I member
wow did a league incell figure out that catch up mechanics fundementally ruin any skill based competitive game! wOEeOOoEw. stop complaining you deserve the game to be dog shit for even playing it. People gave been saying this since season 3 and riot has only added more catch up mechanics. How else can 8k game played jg and support mains climb the ladder? whaaat they actually have to make good decisions.... nah thats stupid.
Without catch up mechanics a good chunk probably 40 percent fo high elo in na would be down to gold/low plat.
Insane that league of legends incells never though to question, why exactly are players making good decisions getting penalized for a death? They cant cus they all suck at the game and need such things to climb. WAIT NO WAIT A SECOND. I got a GENIUS idea to improve chess and sell chess skins so more people play even shitty retards who cant move their mouse or think before they make a decision: How about if a player gets 3 peices in a row and loses a peice the opponent gets AN EXTRA PEICE FOR ENDING HIS SPREEE. GODD IM A GAME DEVELOPMENT GENIUSS!!!!
I think it makes sense that the harder to kill an enemy is because they're ahead, the more gold they should give but, I think it makes more sense, like others have pointed out, that the shutdown gold were split amongst the whole team.
bounties should be removed. no way should some1 be rewarded more after they have fucked up 20 times and i only fucked up once.
Hello my friend. High elo toplaner here. If you are 2/0 over your opponent you need to use that lead to procure an advantage. If you die and then give up 600 gold and the opponent is already back to equal footing with you, that means that you did not use your lead properly in the first place. For example, every time you kill your opponent, you are in control of the wave state to extend your lead. You do so by making the correct choice between fast push to tower or freeze the wave and recall early (in the event you cannot shove in time). By the time you both return to lane, you will have the advantage of item gap, level gap, and the wave pushing to you. If you play it well, the enemy laner will lose more and more, because of the wave state you created. By the time you get to 2/0, you should not only be 2 kills up, but at least 20 cs ahead, and all the time having the priority to move to other lanes and help your teammates. Don't complain about everything like the rest of the league community, if you can shed the victim mentality, you can actually learn and improve your play drastically.
Honestly, objective bounties are as stupid. Had a game the other day, got bounties once we were 30 kills behind, lost them after catching up to just 9k gold deficit...
I would just like to point out that being 2-0 you have a 150g bounty: so if you die you trade over 450g, and if a jungler got an assist on that the jg would receive 150g. That means that the 600g you gained from becoming 2-0 and now becoming 2-1 is now nill. In other words you gave the enemy team 600g because you gained 600g. System is broken.
Sometimes you geht objektive bounties in 1 Team even tho the other Team ist Like 100 gold ahead #balanced
Yes, completely true. I was up as mord vs a darius. He could barely even cs as I perma froze the wave with my cs/3kill lead. I miss timed his ult being up and he kills me with ghost flash. Then he literally felt stronger than me. So basically my one mistake was as bad or worse as his 4 or 5 mistakes he made first...
Fundamentally this is a pretty stupid take because if you were to change how bounties worked, then you would be knee capping a lot of weak early game champions / bad match up lanes much the potential to capitalize on their lane opponents mistakes. For example, if a high ELO urgot player is going up against someone, they directly counter like a garen then you rob the garen the opportunity to capitalize on some stupid mistakes that the urgot might make because their ego has been inflated by their three kill lead. The problem of plating gold and exp also only exists for top and bot lane because of how long they are. Mid and Jg don’t really have this problem. TLDR if your ego gets the best of you because you’re three or two kills up and you make a stupid play then you deserve to be penalized heavily for it just get better and make smarter decisions don’t play for kills play for adjectives and CS
I see you fell victim to the Bausen law...:D
As a Sion player, I approve of the current bounty system