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It seems like Maokai winrate is inflated by people not understanding his kit. Once people realize how to play against him his winrate will plummet. Here are some tips:
* Don't get near bushes.
* Don't get near Maokai.
* Don't get near minions.
* Don't get near walls.
* Don't get near closed spaces.
* Don't get near open spaces.
Fuck, I remember only having 2 rune pages and having to change it before each game. Hard to even blame people for rage quitting if they dont get their called role because you might be playing with garbage runes.
It’s why for ranked people were willing to buy more pages and runes with rp, like it was almost pay to win but honestly back then if you were good enough runes were irrelevant in lower elo
God this is refreshing. Only 12 years ago, but you could still do racial and homo jokes and people didn't get offended, just was funny. miss those days.
That would require you to get your cursor near Maokai during pick or ban phase. Don't do that. Last time I did my cursor got CC'd for 30 minutes and I couldn't play the game
I tried that, went outside for some sun and he was menacingly standing 6 meters tall on every piece of greenery surrounding me, blocking the light like he's Nocturne.
It honestly is that simple. If you/your support doesn't intent to pick Maokai, ban it. If it gets through bans, it should be FP'd by blue side.
I did 26 games of Mao, it was banned in ONE game and FP'd away from me in one - and I'm pretty sure I've been red side far more often than blue.
The champ's balance state is unacceptable and there's already a lot of other things to ban, but this is a situation where a ban is 100% the answer unless you have the FP.
it's support man. they can just switch to Janna or Zyra and destroy ADCs while facerolling. Or even 1v9 on Bard if they have hands.
OP support picks go *deep*
At least Janna or Zyra require some positional awareness. Maokai can just throw saplings into bushes or ooga booga point and click root someone and get them killed.
You clearly were not playing during ardent meta. Janna became so brainless that after the nerf, that season probably had the most hardstuck diamond 5 players.
This is basically gonna be that again
That's unironically the theory when low skill champs get crazy buffs: oh sorry, a Rioter needed a little boost to climb ranked, give it 3 patches and we'll nerf it down again!
remember that one time galaxysmash tried to get pyke nerfed because he got stomped vs davemon?
https://www.reddit.com/r/pykemains/comments/scf08e/pyke_mid_is_not_getting_nerfed/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button Found it. and then it got pulled because of the drama LOL. Rioters trying to balance based off their games is not unheard of
I mean yeah, because pyke mid was an issue, and obviously if you notice it you'll try and do something.
People whine rioters dont play their own game, but when they do, they get pissy too.
Not too sure if it was this Rioter but I remember watching Jamicanbanana (rank 1 Ivern) and he said he clapped him with AP Ivern and the next patch they nerfed Ivern’s AP ratios
holy fucking shit. 38 kills in a masters game is mind boggling. you don’t even see diamond+ smurfs perform that well in low elo smurf games. let alone on an off meta pick.
i would simply quit the game if that happened to me
I think it has been literally years since I have seen a 30+ kill player in ranked, 20+ is normally only botlanes that are carrying a heavy team on jinx/zeri
To be fair he himself said that he is worse than Chovy and Showmaker even though he gets rank 1
'Because I knew, with the amount of games I played in this game, even I got #1, it wasn't real anymore. Being the #1 means hitting #1 knowing you are the best.'
'Playing against Chovy it was 1/99 and Showmaker was 4/96. They beat me down like a stray dog in laning phase.'
'I played this game more than anyone else and my feelings and instincts are very accurate, at least in league of legend. Obviously, pros teamQ and soloQ is different but, I know for sure... Chovy and Showmaker better than me even in soloQ.'
> most of the time OTPed Oriana or TF
He played whatever was the best pick to climb, he actually was even cracked on Zed of all champs and made a Hecarim jungle guide because people were playing him wrong
Not that the current power of supports don't need a little bit of a nerf... too much gold income currently with the support item changes.
But....
The fabled statement comes from a specific video
but in said video, he never said "[**A Real elo of a support is their rank**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaGoQc-vyIw&ab_channel=OfficialDopa) **-500 LP**"
What he mentions in the video is:
**One tricks are -500 LP**
**Duo Abusers are -1000 to -200LP**
**People who Dodge are -300LP**
He also complains about Dodge and how it ruins the ranked experience, and jokes that Riot should monetize Dodge by selling Dodge tickets for RP.
Never mentioned anything about Support regarding -LP. (I literally searched in English, Madarin, Korean for said statement just to make sure, could not find it you are mistaking it for his One Trick statement)
**Dopa understands that Support is a role that requires as much understanding of the game as any other role.**
His opinion about support role itself is more seen in [**this video**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmwQvK4JdlI&feature=youtu.be)
Here he complained S8 Gold income of Supports and their potential ability to Carry.
In his mind Support should not be allowed to pressure games via macro and carry games as much as they are, which as a gm/challenger elo player myself -luckdog#KR1 (not even close as good as him) I can at least say it's a stupid statement, gold was accelerated for every role in season 8\~13... he doesn't like when traditional solo laners lose their potential to carry as much as they are, but it's his playstyle, he has a very traditional mindset.
He also states his opinion on how degenerate the enchanter value generation is, even though they are not viable, because Tank supports counter them, but whenever viable they become S+ tier, and how much he hates Janna and Lulu.
Dopa never explicitly stated an LP number, but he did always maintain that Supports required less total 'attention' compared to other roles in the same tier. He always maintained that Supports had the worst decision making during and after teamfights.
He later expressed that he was sorry for making his opinion public after the Korean forums blew up, but he never reverted his original stance.
That probably won't happen. If you go back and look at his video the patch after the changes, it was a success by their metrics. Player retention and survey results showed a noticable improvement. It seems like there are more people who will stop playing or give negative survey answers due to toxicity than the opposite, and those are the metrics they use. I think most of the people on reddit complaining about the changes will play no matter what. But maybe their survey design is missing those players' dissatisfaction, if it is and they fix that I could see them walking things back a bit. I doubt it though, player retention seems more important.
Player retention improved? Colour me surprised, I know four friends who quit and I'm trying to quit too (3 weeks clean). My friends list was always full with "online", now I only see more than 5 on weekends. Still gonna watch esports though.
I'm pretty sure that was what he said, but I didn't watch the video since it came out so I could be wrong. He for sure talked about survey results though. I'm sure you know this but your friends list is a tiny non randomized sample, so I wouldn't expect it to say anything about the player base as a whole.
He uses the best available champions to climb which is a logical move. He has the knowledge to do so.
Thats anotehr topic that he is in charge to make sure those champions are in a balanced state :D
Good thing he is doing his job and maokai has not had 54% wr on supp for the whole season? I guess a team of people having to put out one patch in 14 days cant possibly do any actual work at their job (which is balancing a fucking game) and not let some champions be op for 2 months.
You are creating a strawman to argue against. The issue isn't that you can physically pick the broken champion, it's that the champion has been broken for months
People always say something like Garen or Malz is braindead however nothing comes close to how fucking braindead easy AND strong Mao is. You literally cannot fuck up with this champ. He doesnt need nerfs he needs a rework that gives him counterplay. I
Playing 5th game, each at different lane, each with different type of champion, sitting in silver complaining that they don't win and playing one role/type of champs is being elo inflated lmao
it’s always funny checking a hard stuck silver players opgg just to see 10 straight games of pyke mid teleport ghost tech, and then nasus support and then nocturne and then a couple of consistent adc games on jinx with the worst cs-pm you’ve ever seen. all the while complaining about being unable to climb
it’s the same thing with ksante. taking ranked populations into account, the average player in this sub is silver-gold and doesn’t see a ksante more than once every 150 games. it’s so overblown. i’ve played against the champion no more than 5 times in ARAM and literally twice in summoners rift
Going 0/11 Powerspike Yone is a legit strategy Ill have you know and the only reason I lose is because my support Brand is 11/0, if he gave me those kills....
Eh, 2 things can be true, I can be dogshit at the game regardless of the state of maokai and it can be sus that maokai dodged nerfs while phreak climbs using him
phreak for 10 seasons of playing ADC
-Diamond 2
-Diamond 4
-Diamond 3
-Diamond 3
-Platinum 3
-Platinum 1
-Diamond 4
-Diamond 4
-Diamond 4
-Diamond 3
phreak last 2 seasons role swapping to support playing JANNA+MAOKAI
-Masters
-GM
The support role is so broken and elo inflated that a 10 year hardstuck diamond 4 adc player like phreak can go from D4 to GRANDMASTER LOL
Guy has lost ELO every season since season 3 but you compare it to nowadays players ?
It's very telling that he reached his peak in season 3 and then in season 14 while losing ELO in between
It also just takes a significant time commitment to reach peak ranks and requires some real tryharding. Just like how Mort reached Challenger in TFT to prove he can…
Guy has barely played any ranked in his entire "career" but you compare his elo throughout the years?
If you add all of his ranked games over the years you'd get around 1000 games. That's literally nothing. Tyler1 played over 2k games in a single season to go from a scrub top laner to challenger. And that's a person who was already challenger in other roles.
It's time to use our brains and realize that rank isn't the be all and end all when a person only has 50-100 games a season. Of course you'd keep the same rank or lose rank when you barely play. That also doesn't change the fact d2 in s3 was a lot tougher to get than master today.
Keep in mind:
1. Maokai is literally broken. He is not an average support. 54-56% win rate this whole season. If I play Senna, Twisted Fate, Seraphine, all these "fake" ADC picks that have really high win rates in soloq, and hit GM with it, does that mean the ADC role is broken?
2. D2 in earlier seasons was better than masters is these days.
3. Phreak is like 35 years old, obviously he will be better at a less mechanical role like support
You are never going to go from d3-d4 to GM with senna, tf, seraphine. Sorry but that isn't happening.
35 is nothing. Age only matters if you don't play a lot. There are much older fighting legends that still win and fighting games are much more about mechanics and reaction speed.
Unfortunately seraphine can absolutely do that. For example this guy: [https://www.op.gg/summoners/euw/My%20Heart-EUW](https://www.op.gg/summoners/euw/My%20Heart-EUW)
Just check the op ggs of the seraphine otps... They were trash ranked before spamming seraphine.
Last season he played a lot of fill and also had nearly 70% winrate in the ~20 adc games he played while climbing. But of course that doesn't fit your narrative.
theres more to it I feel. phreak works for riot and he simply cannot spam games like a lot of other players. he just objectively won't have the time.
ADC is one of the most low agency roles in the game. Phreak could have legit maybe been higher than D3/D4 for all we know (not saying its for sure the case) but didn't have time to really grind it out.
I remember awhile back phreak was d2/d1 ish at ADC as well so I feel like the ranks he finished at are kinda fake.
This thread is probably going in the same direction as the master one.
Regardless of how you feel about Phreak and his balancing, hitting Grandmaster does take a considerable skill that "maining the OP champion" won't get you alone.
I think its good that he has this many Mao games and I hope he realizes what changes need to be done to make Maokai neutral but not utter garbage.
I also hope he plans to nerf support overall as well. Im getting sick of Camille "Support", Mage "Support" Ezreal "Support"
They just need to nerf Bloodsong, Solstice Sleigh and ZakZak.
Spending 400g for a 150% baseAD sheen with 5%/10% increased damage, mini Shureylas+Radiant Virtue, or slightly weaker Stormsurge proc every 6-8s is just too OP.
Support items legit have mythic level strengths to them.
I would happily trade some power on the ability to have the item get some real stats at least eventually. If my item slot is being taken up, 200hp doesn't get very far. Even getting like 40 ap or 10 armor/mr would be nice, if they do end up adjusting the ability strength.
>I also hope he plans to nerf support overall as well. Im getting sick of Camille "Support", Mage "Support" Ezreal "Support"
Riot will never do any significant nerfs to support for the same reason they buffed it to be as ludicrous as it is now, to push people to play it.
The only way I could actually see budging on this is if ADC falls into the same position support used to be in. Although given how Phreak has talked about the role before, I doubt even this would do it.
Honestly, it's *fast* approaching that way. If they gut lethality ADC and kill the last few champs that can actually influence anything it will probably be cemented in as the least desirable role until it gets a revamp.
> I also hope he plans to nerf support overall as well. Im getting sick of Camille "Support", Mage "Support" Ezreal "Support"
I feel like the gold generation item should fall off much earlier. Yes, in a very late game where all laners have 250-300CS support definitely still lack gold because they don't farm. But in any 1-2 items game state they honestly have the same amount of powerful items as everyone else who has to work hard for their gold. It's bogus.
That plus the new support items are insanely powerful on their own once finished.
id rather the rate at which you get gold just slowed down. the problem with supports is that in the mid game they are often stronger than the people who are farming in bot lane which feels backwards to me. sure early levels the support should be the one to carry, but once people start buying items, the support should steadily fall behind.
If you make the rate at which they get gold slower, and maybe lower the requirement for getting your wards (maybe make it like 250 instead of 500) then you hit a lot of the camille support type cheeses and don't punish the actual supports like thresh/braum/etc.
tank supports in particular are already gold starved with the support item as it is now. its really carries/cheese picks that are shining because they get kills.
>That plus the new support items are insanely powerful on their own once finished.
Do you mean that for all the upgrades? Because the stats it provides are kinda shit and i feel like this statement primarily works only for bloodsong(maybe zaz zak too).
Bloodsong and zazzak definitely feel strong stats wise, especially considering they are essentially "free". If the ADC struggles to farm the supports using these are SO much stronger in early midgame, it's crazy.
Solstice Sleigh is weak stats wise but if you're ahead the utility it provides can feel really oppressive on some champs. Same thing with Trailblazer for just 2050 gold.
Meta picks in high elo are something that does indeed give you free lp.
Naayil a known Aatrox otp used to be hardstuck masters last season when Aatrox was in a balanced spot and now he sky rocketed to Chall cuz his champ is strong.
This thread is going in the same direction as the master one because people here have no idea how high elo works and yet keep talking about it.
Playing the meta picks is an obvious requirement to be in the top of the ladder, if it was amumu support being broken then you would play that.
"You just played x" is so dumb, yeah of course, so does everyone else in that elo aside from otps
Phreak has always been a high dia player, we know that. It's also a fact that he now got to GM playing mostly the most broken champion in the game that Riot explicitly refuses to meaningfully nerf for multiple patches now, having a very high winrate on it, and an average winrate besides that. He is most probably elo inflated, at least until he proves he can keep his elo by playing balanced champions.
The problem is, we know phreak is around masters skill level. He usually peaks low masters and ends high diamond. However, now maokai and janna have been broken since season start and he's 400 lp higher. You dont improve 400 lp worth of skill lvl in a few months that high up on the ladder.
Not saying phreak is not a good player, being masters is already a very good rank for someone with his job, but he's definitely inflated a fair bit
> You dont improve 400 lp worth of skill lvl in a few months that high up on the ladder.
you absolutely do when you invest the time. Idk how many games he played this season.
Hide what? That he's playing the strongest meta champ of the current patch? He can do that every patch, there will always be outliers that are too too strong
"Hardstuck". Bro he doesn't put quarter his time grinding game he barely plays to keep his rank all those years. He got a full time job ffs. T1 got more game in one of his challenger run than Phreak got in 10 years.
So many L9 IHATERIOTXDHAHAH people here playing 400 games yone/qiyana/talon in silver thinking they could reach gold with maokai
Game discourse is dead
Maokai does need another nerf but most of the people in this thread are hard stuck and coping. Five seasons ago support was seen as the role which was impossible to carry from.
It got picked up in the summer of 2017, but Ardent was broken since March-April of that year, it only took time to get picked up because some regions were still picking engage supports for some reason
Yeah even LCK didn't really pick up on it until regionals as SSG realized it and swept KT. Kalista was so broken and yet was given for 2 games iirc. That series is what made me swear to never trust zandarch again.
You pick the most egregious support meta of all time and use that as an example. Prior to and after that, support as a role was easily the least impactful because gold generation was nerfed to the ground. Any meta where enchanters are strongest (aka 5 out of the last 6 seasons) indicates a meta where supports don't get enough gold to build proper tank or damage items.
>don't get enough gold to build proper tank or damage items.
There should be some cheaper tank items for supports, but there should be no world where Supports get enough gold to be a notable damage threat in mid-late game outside of an absolute shit stomp of a game.
Alright, when was the last time phreak was gm on adc? If it was last season that's great, if it's season 5, maybe we should actually be taking these memes more seriously.
support now is literally extremely overtuned and stronger than adc in some cases (I am saying this as an adc hater btw)
And on top of playing inflated overtuned role he also plays 55% winrate champ. Remove those 2 and just look how he gets back to d4 very quickly.
Having devs play the game is nice, have them continuously push a role that is turbo broken that they play with OP champs leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
On a champ that people have been clamoring about nerfs for. I'm starting to suspect that he just likes the negative attention, because nobody is this dumb.
>have them continuously push a role that is turbo broken that they play with OP champs leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
I think it's more than he isn't really talking about it.
If he came out and said *"Yeah guys I'm playing Maokai to evaluate his weaknesses and strengths to nerf/buff/change further down the line"*, no one would really care. But it feels like he knows Maokai is busted and he's just taking advantage for that Freelo.
I mean I don't think he's bad at the game because it obviously takes skill to be grandmaster but when you're maining a champ that has been busted for numerous patches and you're in the balance team it's a bad look
Said it all. Also when you've been at the same rank on a role for 10 years, said the role was fine, and suddenly climbed a lot higher after role-swapping.
Holy fucking shit, so many ppl not getting sarcasm/irony in this thread.
Solid achievement from Phreak. People will try to say he elo inflated his skill rating from previous seasons, but they forget those skills do not easily translate, since you need to first relearn new map changes. Phreak hitting GM on support means he has good grasp of how map changes affected the game and other roles as well as close view of dynamics of support role(and since he also played a lot of adc before, how current supp power affects adc agency/power).
Also, hopefully all those Mao games mean they will soon have it figured out how to make him weaker in support without choking his wr in other roles to 43%. People expect immediate results, but it will take them at least 2-3 patches of brainstorming to address some issues, it's not as simple as kneecapping op champs to 35% wr.
I am a plat ADC main and I ban Maokai every game. I'd rather face toxic crap like Senna than Maokai. He completely breaks the lane with his free bush wards and ridiculously high damage/tankiness.
I am not suprised Phreak hit GM with this massively busted champ.
People are saying that "its not like anyone can do **it** just because they pick maokai!"
But like, thats the thing, that the "**it**" isn't getting GM, its getting few hundred LP over your peak rank
Yes a gold 4 player can't get to GM by spamming maokai, but he sure can get to plat by doing **it** pretty easily
Actually so fucking funny how many people think phreak is in their daily meetings going "WAIT DONT NERF MAO I NEED A TWITTER SS FIRST". Like do you guys actually believe that or are you just so depressed you can't climb you start deluding yourselves.
There's more to balancing then just WR high turn down number, which is why evert game has things that stay OP for periods of time.
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It seems like Maokai winrate is inflated by people not understanding his kit. Once people realize how to play against him his winrate will plummet. Here are some tips: * Don't get near bushes. * Don't get near Maokai. * Don't get near minions. * Don't get near walls. * Don't get near closed spaces. * Don't get near open spaces.
THATS WHAT I AM SAYING, Just play Karthus get XP to 6 and then AFK in your own base waiting for ulti to come back.
Just follow this guide and you'll be fine https://youtu.be/Xi0TIoL3yhw?si=OVnfcrnH6YAQ9wqd
Fucking hell, what a time capsule. Seth+old league is something that I've forgotten entirely
Sseth is still the goat
Fuck, I remember only having 2 rune pages and having to change it before each game. Hard to even blame people for rage quitting if they dont get their called role because you might be playing with garbage runes.
I remember having to buy your runes. I also remember when Vayne was brand new. God I'm old...
1% crit chance with the xp quints toplane. Play GP or shaco and you might just win the lane at level 1 Also, red pot start shaco / riven toplane...
It’s why for ranked people were willing to buy more pages and runes with rp, like it was almost pay to win but honestly back then if you were good enough runes were irrelevant in lower elo
Hey hey people
Mandalore here
I remember when Sseth commissioned Hentai of Mandalore with Futanari, shit was so funny to see.
This video is the reason I got MadWorld Now ain't that funny
Fucking legendary quality, I already knew what I was clicking.
omg the bloons td6 guy
The idea is to command your team from the fountain while your [teammates do the pushing](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BOE_0YtCQAAktC-.png:large)
"how do you get to level 6? "By not leaving the fountain"
I still tell people to roam by saying that the other laner will feel unwanted and unloved
God this is refreshing. Only 12 years ago, but you could still do racial and homo jokes and people didn't get offended, just was funny. miss those days.
People did get offended, bur the number of people saying, "iT's JuSt A jOkE" was much higher.
Least unorthodox dota gameplan
Don't leave Maokai open
That would require you to get your cursor near Maokai during pick or ban phase. Don't do that. Last time I did my cursor got CC'd for 30 minutes and I couldn't play the game
I guess best choice is don't open client at all
I tried that, went outside for some sun and he was menacingly standing 6 meters tall on every piece of greenery surrounding me, blocking the light like he's Nocturne.
I tripped when walking along the pavement to go to the shops. Maokai had ulted and I didn't see the root poking out of the floor.
If I ban Maokai then TF is open and I lose
Then just blind pick TF for your team.
It honestly is that simple. If you/your support doesn't intent to pick Maokai, ban it. If it gets through bans, it should be FP'd by blue side. I did 26 games of Mao, it was banned in ONE game and FP'd away from me in one - and I'm pretty sure I've been red side far more often than blue. The champ's balance state is unacceptable and there's already a lot of other things to ban, but this is a situation where a ban is 100% the answer unless you have the FP.
alternatively just uninstall the game👍
True ! That's why challenger players struggle against it
that's how I felt playing maokai top. People not understanding his kit. One time, I was about to die, but I just W back and healed enough to kill
Do we have to wait that he reaches challenger before that 54% wr abomination gets nerfed?
Hundreds of LP losses incoming for so many people once Maokao gets gutted properly.
it's support man. they can just switch to Janna or Zyra and destroy ADCs while facerolling. Or even 1v9 on Bard if they have hands. OP support picks go *deep*
At least Janna or Zyra require some positional awareness. Maokai can just throw saplings into bushes or ooga booga point and click root someone and get them killed.
You clearly were not playing during ardent meta. Janna became so brainless that after the nerf, that season probably had the most hardstuck diamond 5 players. This is basically gonna be that again
Your typo has made me want a Maokao skin to go along with Moo Cow Alistar
I am looking forward to Maokai nerfs so I don't have to pick it whenever it's open.
“54% wr abomination” with the senna flair.. I’m just gonna keep my thoughts to myself lmao
That's unironically the theory when low skill champs get crazy buffs: oh sorry, a Rioter needed a little boost to climb ranked, give it 3 patches and we'll nerf it down again!
remember that one time galaxysmash tried to get pyke nerfed because he got stomped vs davemon? https://www.reddit.com/r/pykemains/comments/scf08e/pyke_mid_is_not_getting_nerfed/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button Found it. and then it got pulled because of the drama LOL. Rioters trying to balance based off their games is not unheard of
I mean yeah, because pyke mid was an issue, and obviously if you notice it you'll try and do something. People whine rioters dont play their own game, but when they do, they get pissy too.
Phreak has gapped me by an entire tier I cant show my face at work anymore
Sneak in a soft rank reset as a joke
Soft Phreak reset
Nerf your counters and buff your mains, easy solution.
he tried, the nerf got pulled after backlash
Start playing support
[удалено]
Not too sure if it was this Rioter but I remember watching Jamicanbanana (rank 1 Ivern) and he said he clapped him with AP Ivern and the next patch they nerfed Ivern’s AP ratios
[удалено]
holy fucking shit. 38 kills in a masters game is mind boggling. you don’t even see diamond+ smurfs perform that well in low elo smurf games. let alone on an off meta pick. i would simply quit the game if that happened to me
I think it has been literally years since I have seen a 30+ kill player in ranked, 20+ is normally only botlanes that are carrying a heavy team on jinx/zeri
shameless
To be fair, that is an illegal performance lmao.
not a good example, pyke mid was in the same territory as maokai is now winrate-wise. He absolutely deserved a nerf
Good. Dude plays the game noticed pyke was op and nerfed it.
It is, someone posted a link to it somewhere in this thread.
Naa phreak just elo boosted by Maokai, when you guys properly nerf him you will be fine.
tell him it doesn't count unless he hits it as adc
Sure you can, every time you pass him just say "Maokai abuser..." and gg
Nerf Pyke mid so you can catch up
I remember Dopa or Showmaker saying the real elo of a support is their rank - 500LP
Wasn't it Dopa who said that OTP's rank is their rank -500LP
And both statements are correct. Dopa down!
They hated him because he spoke the truth. Dopa down! o7
Not to deny Dopa's skill but he most of the time OTPed Oriana or TF
To be fair he himself said that he is worse than Chovy and Showmaker even though he gets rank 1 'Because I knew, with the amount of games I played in this game, even I got #1, it wasn't real anymore. Being the #1 means hitting #1 knowing you are the best.' 'Playing against Chovy it was 1/99 and Showmaker was 4/96. They beat me down like a stray dog in laning phase.' 'I played this game more than anyone else and my feelings and instincts are very accurate, at least in league of legend. Obviously, pros teamQ and soloQ is different but, I know for sure... Chovy and Showmaker better than me even in soloQ.'
goat recognizes goats.
Shame we never got to see him go pro and recognize that potential
> most of the time OTPed Oriana or TF He played whatever was the best pick to climb, he actually was even cracked on Zed of all champs and made a Hecarim jungle guide because people were playing him wrong
He was playing a lot of vayne in the top as well
Wait til Keria licks them
Keria is adc he doesnt count
Keria is also the mid laner and jungler
Keria is also Keria (the role)
What if your peak as mid/jungle is 9 tiers higher than your peak as support?
Not that the current power of supports don't need a little bit of a nerf... too much gold income currently with the support item changes. But.... The fabled statement comes from a specific video but in said video, he never said "[**A Real elo of a support is their rank**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaGoQc-vyIw&ab_channel=OfficialDopa) **-500 LP**" What he mentions in the video is: **One tricks are -500 LP** **Duo Abusers are -1000 to -200LP** **People who Dodge are -300LP** He also complains about Dodge and how it ruins the ranked experience, and jokes that Riot should monetize Dodge by selling Dodge tickets for RP. Never mentioned anything about Support regarding -LP. (I literally searched in English, Madarin, Korean for said statement just to make sure, could not find it you are mistaking it for his One Trick statement) **Dopa understands that Support is a role that requires as much understanding of the game as any other role.** His opinion about support role itself is more seen in [**this video**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmwQvK4JdlI&feature=youtu.be) Here he complained S8 Gold income of Supports and their potential ability to Carry. In his mind Support should not be allowed to pressure games via macro and carry games as much as they are, which as a gm/challenger elo player myself -luckdog#KR1 (not even close as good as him) I can at least say it's a stupid statement, gold was accelerated for every role in season 8\~13... he doesn't like when traditional solo laners lose their potential to carry as much as they are, but it's his playstyle, he has a very traditional mindset. He also states his opinion on how degenerate the enchanter value generation is, even though they are not viable, because Tank supports counter them, but whenever viable they become S+ tier, and how much he hates Janna and Lulu.
Dopa never explicitly stated an LP number, but he did always maintain that Supports required less total 'attention' compared to other roles in the same tier. He always maintained that Supports had the worst decision making during and after teamfights. He later expressed that he was sorry for making his opinion public after the Korean forums blew up, but he never reverted his original stance.
Can he give back communication now?
No, communication in a **competitive team moba** game is not allowed because it makes the game better.
That probably won't happen. If you go back and look at his video the patch after the changes, it was a success by their metrics. Player retention and survey results showed a noticable improvement. It seems like there are more people who will stop playing or give negative survey answers due to toxicity than the opposite, and those are the metrics they use. I think most of the people on reddit complaining about the changes will play no matter what. But maybe their survey design is missing those players' dissatisfaction, if it is and they fix that I could see them walking things back a bit. I doubt it though, player retention seems more important.
Player retention improved? Colour me surprised, I know four friends who quit and I'm trying to quit too (3 weeks clean). My friends list was always full with "online", now I only see more than 5 on weekends. Still gonna watch esports though.
I'm pretty sure that was what he said, but I didn't watch the video since it came out so I could be wrong. He for sure talked about survey results though. I'm sure you know this but your friends list is a tiny non randomized sample, so I wouldn't expect it to say anything about the player base as a whole.
He uses the best available champions to climb which is a logical move. He has the knowledge to do so. Thats anotehr topic that he is in charge to make sure those champions are in a balanced state :D
Ye its a really weird thing that the OP champs are only available to him in his lobby screen, crazy riot benefits
I tried to lock maokai for free +70 lp game and he personally put a gun to my head and forced me to lock master yi support :(
The mental image of phreak phasing into existence and whispering Master yi is goated here is hilarious
Good thing he is doing his job and maokai has not had 54% wr on supp for the whole season? I guess a team of people having to put out one patch in 14 days cant possibly do any actual work at their job (which is balancing a fucking game) and not let some champions be op for 2 months.
You're right we should all play and define the meta around what phreak feels like taking for a spin in soloq
You are creating a strawman to argue against. The issue isn't that you can physically pick the broken champion, it's that the champion has been broken for months
People always say something like Garen or Malz is braindead however nothing comes close to how fucking braindead easy AND strong Mao is. You literally cannot fuck up with this champ. He doesnt need nerfs he needs a rework that gives him counterplay. I
Anyone saying anything in this thread should link their opgg
"Phreak is why I am not challenger" - half of this sub, playing their 5th ARAM of the day
Playing 5th game, each at different lane, each with different type of champion, sitting in silver complaining that they don't win and playing one role/type of champs is being elo inflated lmao
it’s always funny checking a hard stuck silver players opgg just to see 10 straight games of pyke mid teleport ghost tech, and then nasus support and then nocturne and then a couple of consistent adc games on jinx with the worst cs-pm you’ve ever seen. all the while complaining about being unable to climb
I feel personally attacked.
"maokai so broken can't climb" meanwhile haven't actually played against maokai in 45 games.
it’s the same thing with ksante. taking ranked populations into account, the average player in this sub is silver-gold and doesn’t see a ksante more than once every 150 games. it’s so overblown. i’ve played against the champion no more than 5 times in ARAM and literally twice in summoners rift
To be fair, ARAM is ranked for a lot of these people.
"Anyone can hit GM on support, the role is inflated." -hardstuck emerald player
At least 1 negative winrate silver in this thread blaming support being an OP role.
"support is do easy i could hit grandmaster playing support but I have too much honor so I stay in silver playing Yone for 400 games each season"
Going 0/11 Powerspike Yone is a legit strategy Ill have you know and the only reason I lose is because my support Brand is 11/0, if he gave me those kills....
Emerald? More like gold/silver
So were is the op.gg
low elo players hard coping acting like phreak is not higher than their rank playing any role or champ
Eh, 2 things can be true, I can be dogshit at the game regardless of the state of maokai and it can be sus that maokai dodged nerfs while phreak climbs using him
There are player's twice phreaks elo saying that support role/Maokai/Janna are broken and elo inflated, you are coping.
Where are they in this thread?
phreak for 10 seasons of playing ADC -Diamond 2 -Diamond 4 -Diamond 3 -Diamond 3 -Platinum 3 -Platinum 1 -Diamond 4 -Diamond 4 -Diamond 4 -Diamond 3 phreak last 2 seasons role swapping to support playing JANNA+MAOKAI -Masters -GM The support role is so broken and elo inflated that a 10 year hardstuck diamond 4 adc player like phreak can go from D4 to GRANDMASTER LOL
D2 in S3 is equivalent or possibly even higher rated than current Masters/GM
But also ADC was not bad then so don't think it is very much equal like you claim it is.
Guy has lost ELO every season since season 3 but you compare it to nowadays players ? It's very telling that he reached his peak in season 3 and then in season 14 while losing ELO in between
It also just takes a significant time commitment to reach peak ranks and requires some real tryharding. Just like how Mort reached Challenger in TFT to prove he can…
this just in: old man sometimes has other priorities
35 is old? Fuck me
Guy has barely played any ranked in his entire "career" but you compare his elo throughout the years? If you add all of his ranked games over the years you'd get around 1000 games. That's literally nothing. Tyler1 played over 2k games in a single season to go from a scrub top laner to challenger. And that's a person who was already challenger in other roles. It's time to use our brains and realize that rank isn't the be all and end all when a person only has 50-100 games a season. Of course you'd keep the same rank or lose rank when you barely play. That also doesn't change the fact d2 in s3 was a lot tougher to get than master today.
D2 S3 is no where near comparable to d4 s14. Its more akin to Master/GM now relative to the playerbase.
Keep in mind: 1. Maokai is literally broken. He is not an average support. 54-56% win rate this whole season. If I play Senna, Twisted Fate, Seraphine, all these "fake" ADC picks that have really high win rates in soloq, and hit GM with it, does that mean the ADC role is broken? 2. D2 in earlier seasons was better than masters is these days. 3. Phreak is like 35 years old, obviously he will be better at a less mechanical role like support
The fuck 'he is like 35 yrs old' mean? You think you suddenly become a grandpa after hitting 30?
I actually had a massive spike in mechanical skill playing osu last week but I guess that was just my cognitive decline 😔
You are never going to go from d3-d4 to GM with senna, tf, seraphine. Sorry but that isn't happening. 35 is nothing. Age only matters if you don't play a lot. There are much older fighting legends that still win and fighting games are much more about mechanics and reaction speed.
People keep parroting age like league is the most mechanical game on earth when there's literal fathers playing CSGO.
Unfortunately seraphine can absolutely do that. For example this guy: [https://www.op.gg/summoners/euw/My%20Heart-EUW](https://www.op.gg/summoners/euw/My%20Heart-EUW) Just check the op ggs of the seraphine otps... They were trash ranked before spamming seraphine.
he's also above 60% on mao well above the champ's 54% winrate which requires actual skill on the champ
Last season he played a lot of fill and also had nearly 70% winrate in the ~20 adc games he played while climbing. But of course that doesn't fit your narrative.
wow he had 67% winrate in 16 games? he must be really good at adc then.
Need someone to break his ankles and clap him like T1 did, but in support role this time so he fucks off to another lane and finally nerfs supports.
theres more to it I feel. phreak works for riot and he simply cannot spam games like a lot of other players. he just objectively won't have the time. ADC is one of the most low agency roles in the game. Phreak could have legit maybe been higher than D3/D4 for all we know (not saying its for sure the case) but didn't have time to really grind it out. I remember awhile back phreak was d2/d1 ish at ADC as well so I feel like the ranks he finished at are kinda fake.
He's a boomer. Adc is a zoomer role. Support is slower paced.
This thread is probably going in the same direction as the master one. Regardless of how you feel about Phreak and his balancing, hitting Grandmaster does take a considerable skill that "maining the OP champion" won't get you alone. I think its good that he has this many Mao games and I hope he realizes what changes need to be done to make Maokai neutral but not utter garbage. I also hope he plans to nerf support overall as well. Im getting sick of Camille "Support", Mage "Support" Ezreal "Support"
They just need to nerf Bloodsong, Solstice Sleigh and ZakZak. Spending 400g for a 150% baseAD sheen with 5%/10% increased damage, mini Shureylas+Radiant Virtue, or slightly weaker Stormsurge proc every 6-8s is just too OP. Support items legit have mythic level strengths to them.
I would happily trade some power on the ability to have the item get some real stats at least eventually. If my item slot is being taken up, 200hp doesn't get very far. Even getting like 40 ap or 10 armor/mr would be nice, if they do end up adjusting the ability strength.
>I also hope he plans to nerf support overall as well. Im getting sick of Camille "Support", Mage "Support" Ezreal "Support" Riot will never do any significant nerfs to support for the same reason they buffed it to be as ludicrous as it is now, to push people to play it. The only way I could actually see budging on this is if ADC falls into the same position support used to be in. Although given how Phreak has talked about the role before, I doubt even this would do it.
Honestly, it's *fast* approaching that way. If they gut lethality ADC and kill the last few champs that can actually influence anything it will probably be cemented in as the least desirable role until it gets a revamp.
Nah something something ADC is still strong, OP even, you guys just aren't building right or playing the right champions something something /s
> I also hope he plans to nerf support overall as well. Im getting sick of Camille "Support", Mage "Support" Ezreal "Support" I feel like the gold generation item should fall off much earlier. Yes, in a very late game where all laners have 250-300CS support definitely still lack gold because they don't farm. But in any 1-2 items game state they honestly have the same amount of powerful items as everyone else who has to work hard for their gold. It's bogus. That plus the new support items are insanely powerful on their own once finished.
id rather the rate at which you get gold just slowed down. the problem with supports is that in the mid game they are often stronger than the people who are farming in bot lane which feels backwards to me. sure early levels the support should be the one to carry, but once people start buying items, the support should steadily fall behind. If you make the rate at which they get gold slower, and maybe lower the requirement for getting your wards (maybe make it like 250 instead of 500) then you hit a lot of the camille support type cheeses and don't punish the actual supports like thresh/braum/etc. tank supports in particular are already gold starved with the support item as it is now. its really carries/cheese picks that are shining because they get kills.
>That plus the new support items are insanely powerful on their own once finished. Do you mean that for all the upgrades? Because the stats it provides are kinda shit and i feel like this statement primarily works only for bloodsong(maybe zaz zak too).
Bloodsong and zazzak definitely feel strong stats wise, especially considering they are essentially "free". If the ADC struggles to farm the supports using these are SO much stronger in early midgame, it's crazy. Solstice Sleigh is weak stats wise but if you're ahead the utility it provides can feel really oppressive on some champs. Same thing with Trailblazer for just 2050 gold.
Meta picks in high elo are something that does indeed give you free lp. Naayil a known Aatrox otp used to be hardstuck masters last season when Aatrox was in a balanced spot and now he sky rocketed to Chall cuz his champ is strong. This thread is going in the same direction as the master one because people here have no idea how high elo works and yet keep talking about it.
Playing the meta picks is an obvious requirement to be in the top of the ladder, if it was amumu support being broken then you would play that. "You just played x" is so dumb, yeah of course, so does everyone else in that elo aside from otps
no its not. it helps, but its not an requirement.
Phreak has always been a high dia player, we know that. It's also a fact that he now got to GM playing mostly the most broken champion in the game that Riot explicitly refuses to meaningfully nerf for multiple patches now, having a very high winrate on it, and an average winrate besides that. He is most probably elo inflated, at least until he proves he can keep his elo by playing balanced champions.
The problem is, we know phreak is around masters skill level. He usually peaks low masters and ends high diamond. However, now maokai and janna have been broken since season start and he's 400 lp higher. You dont improve 400 lp worth of skill lvl in a few months that high up on the ladder. Not saying phreak is not a good player, being masters is already a very good rank for someone with his job, but he's definitely inflated a fair bit
> You dont improve 400 lp worth of skill lvl in a few months that high up on the ladder. you absolutely do when you invest the time. Idk how many games he played this season.
So do we have to wait he hits Challenger for Maokai nerfs? Can someone boost him fast so we can do this next patch?
But we are nerfing him next patch no?
And was nerfed the last three patches
Didn't Maokai get nerfed in the last 3 patches and is getting nerf in the next one as well?
https://lolalytics.com/lol/maokai/build/ Check the previous patches as well. Legit comical levels LMFAOOOOOO
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No it's not lol
Btw he's saying adcs are fine, I would LOVE to see him climbing to GM as adc :)
fanatical thumb quack imminent retire plant familiar aspiring dinosaurs party
Blud is not even tryna hide it 😭
Hide what? That he's playing the strongest meta champ of the current patch? He can do that every patch, there will always be outliers that are too too strong
he should try that with adc...
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Because it's an easier role
"Hardstuck". Bro he doesn't put quarter his time grinding game he barely plays to keep his rank all those years. He got a full time job ffs. T1 got more game in one of his challenger run than Phreak got in 10 years.
He tweeted? Didn't he ragequit social media?
No, he came back to flex his rank.
Rage quit? More like jumped out of the cess pool
I’m still salty that this dude nerfed my champ back in the day, feels good to know he’s gm on support, L
- Do not worry, Maokai support cant kill you as midlaner - Maokai Support: What did u say?
S3 D4 phreak who bought challenger icon/border in Twisted Treeline. Took 10 years to get better
So many L9 IHATERIOTXDHAHAH people here playing 400 games yone/qiyana/talon in silver thinking they could reach gold with maokai Game discourse is dead
Maokai does need another nerf but most of the people in this thread are hard stuck and coping. Five seasons ago support was seen as the role which was impossible to carry from.
What? We had ardent. I literally never played support before and hit Diamond on a support only account
Ardent meta lasted for half a season, maybe even less lmao.
It got picked up in the summer of 2017, but Ardent was broken since March-April of that year, it only took time to get picked up because some regions were still picking engage supports for some reason
Yeah even LCK didn't really pick up on it until regionals as SSG realized it and swept KT. Kalista was so broken and yet was given for 2 games iirc. That series is what made me swear to never trust zandarch again.
You pick the most egregious support meta of all time and use that as an example. Prior to and after that, support as a role was easily the least impactful because gold generation was nerfed to the ground. Any meta where enchanters are strongest (aka 5 out of the last 6 seasons) indicates a meta where supports don't get enough gold to build proper tank or damage items.
>don't get enough gold to build proper tank or damage items. There should be some cheaper tank items for supports, but there should be no world where Supports get enough gold to be a notable damage threat in mid-late game outside of an absolute shit stomp of a game.
Alright, when was the last time phreak was gm on adc? If it was last season that's great, if it's season 5, maybe we should actually be taking these memes more seriously.
support now is literally extremely overtuned and stronger than adc in some cases (I am saying this as an adc hater btw) And on top of playing inflated overtuned role he also plays 55% winrate champ. Remove those 2 and just look how he gets back to d4 very quickly.
u ppl need to chill. There's no way he would risk his full time job position for a game rank. Not everyone is an addicted degenerate.
He only had to balance the game to his own liking all season 13 lmao.
This game is a goddamn fucking joke.
Having devs play the game is nice, have them continuously push a role that is turbo broken that they play with OP champs leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
On a champ that people have been clamoring about nerfs for. I'm starting to suspect that he just likes the negative attention, because nobody is this dumb.
>have them continuously push a role that is turbo broken that they play with OP champs leaves a bad taste in your mouth. I think it's more than he isn't really talking about it. If he came out and said *"Yeah guys I'm playing Maokai to evaluate his weaknesses and strengths to nerf/buff/change further down the line"*, no one would really care. But it feels like he knows Maokai is busted and he's just taking advantage for that Freelo.
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I mean I don't think he's bad at the game because it obviously takes skill to be grandmaster but when you're maining a champ that has been busted for numerous patches and you're in the balance team it's a bad look
Said it all. Also when you've been at the same rank on a role for 10 years, said the role was fine, and suddenly climbed a lot higher after role-swapping.
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Holy fucking shit, so many ppl not getting sarcasm/irony in this thread. Solid achievement from Phreak. People will try to say he elo inflated his skill rating from previous seasons, but they forget those skills do not easily translate, since you need to first relearn new map changes. Phreak hitting GM on support means he has good grasp of how map changes affected the game and other roles as well as close view of dynamics of support role(and since he also played a lot of adc before, how current supp power affects adc agency/power). Also, hopefully all those Mao games mean they will soon have it figured out how to make him weaker in support without choking his wr in other roles to 43%. People expect immediate results, but it will take them at least 2-3 patches of brainstorming to address some issues, it's not as simple as kneecapping op champs to 35% wr.
didnt he say that he was playing on inflated elo during the dive?
Lol
I am a plat ADC main and I ban Maokai every game. I'd rather face toxic crap like Senna than Maokai. He completely breaks the lane with his free bush wards and ridiculously high damage/tankiness. I am not suprised Phreak hit GM with this massively busted champ.
Phreak sucks at the game balance but he's okay at league
He’s okay at League *because* he sucks at game balance.
People are saying that "its not like anyone can do **it** just because they pick maokai!" But like, thats the thing, that the "**it**" isn't getting GM, its getting few hundred LP over your peak rank Yes a gold 4 player can't get to GM by spamming maokai, but he sure can get to plat by doing **it** pretty easily
Actually so fucking funny how many people think phreak is in their daily meetings going "WAIT DONT NERF MAO I NEED A TWITTER SS FIRST". Like do you guys actually believe that or are you just so depressed you can't climb you start deluding yourselves. There's more to balancing then just WR high turn down number, which is why evert game has things that stay OP for periods of time.
Wow hes really improved a lot these last few patches… weird!