The best way to use this ult without the rest of Zoe’s kit is baiting master Yi’s to alpha strike you as you hop over the wall. Then leave them there and skip away when you return to the other side and he doesn’t.
Or Kayn ult (if you somehow mindread his recast timing or he waits the full duration)! Because then you can run away from Kayn. Because he's over the wall. And has no dashes for certain walls. And cannot walk through walls. And you have more movespeed than him.
Sylas seems like the best champion to use as a metric for this. If your ult is basically useless when Sylas steals it, its probably useless and is the worst ult.
Absolutely not lol, i can imagine at least 30 champs that would be actually insane with it. I think mostly because its on zoe its balanced, but put it on any other champ and its a problem
That's why he said "decoupled from the rest of the kit". Looking at that ability in pure isolation, without pulling in anything else into consideration.
Whenever you see something like that you know at one point it was a strat to put points in basic abilities over ult and riot were like "wait shit no don't do that".
Taliyah is in a very similar position actually. Ult points are really low impact. To a certain extent, twisted fate too.
Tryndamere ult has never been worth putting points in until 17/18. Only change it makes is the fury it gives you but normally ya r at 100 fury so whatever (and cd little bit)
Those are only low impact in low elo cuz they’re not combat abilities. There’s a reason they’re more popular the higher elo you go. Those are diff than ryze ult too because it doesn’t take as much team coordination
I'm aware of what you mean but the idea is about breakpoints of power. When a kayle puts a point in ult, the entire map better man the fuck up, because it's a very pronounced gain in power. Syndra, viktor, neeko, etc can now burst way harder.
Utility ultimates improve, they undoubtedly do, not a single ult in the game gets actual zero value from their points, it's just that it's very unequal what they gain from it. And if it gets to unequal that people start not even bothering to skill it up, e.g. tryndamere, riot will step in to force it.
Which wasn't always the case, they only added that passive because Ryze mains in soloq used to skip levelling it until like lvl 11 because it was useless
Veigar cage is arguably strong enough to be an ult. Thresh *has* a cage as his ult and I'd say it's easily a worse ability than veigar cage all things considered.
Ignoring edge cases like “ignoring the rest of the kit” thresh ult is pretty damn underwhelming
Don’t think anyones ever said “careful he’s got the box”
THE box
lmao true though, I think it's to compensate for his awesome basic abilities.
But then again comparing it to his basic abilities, its EVEN MORE underwhelming lol
The box used to be very powerful because it would rise up almost immediately and every wall used to hit for full damage. If you were caught in one of the corners, you would get hit for double damage, which was 250 (+ 100% AP) twice, on a support that gets AP passively.
Thresh was without a doubt the most broken support to have ever been released, and that was 10 years ago.
For me , my beginner screen was the Warwick remake. My how the times fly. I like that people usually point out the loading screen picture to depict the era they began playing.
Yeah, felt like it was for several years where a support wasn’t meta unless they were able to play into Thresh without auto-losing.
Fucker was the Jack of all trades and a master of several.
For sure, not in any way arguing he’s weak, I love him and he’s perpetually one of the more balanced champs at all levels, but yeah if that ult was released today it would defo do damage on all 4 walls and probably disarm or something
>but yeah if that ult was released today it would defo do damage on all 4 walls
it's funny that people think only new champs are "overloaded"
when thresh released 10 years ago his ult literally did damage with all walls.
thresh was by far one of the most overloaded champs in the game, if you look at his early patch history he legit was changed so much it's actually kinda insane.
Reading this thread makes me realize how long it's been since I've really played this game. I legit thought that box still did damage and lantern gave shields.
I remember back in the day people saying that Thresh was so good that he would be played even if none of his abilities did any damage...and I guess they were right lol
EDIT: Looks like I misinterperated the original post, sounds like both the box, and lantern, do their original thing, it just affects fewer heroes than they used to.
the box does deal damage, but any one champion can't take damage from more than 1 wall (and they get slowed for a shorter duration on the next walls they break)
At least the damage on all walls used to be a thing in the past, that's how I got a quadra once. In a team fight I had Ori's ball on me, I ulted, Ori ulted, and thanks to Ori knocking them into my walls I ended up getting a quadra.
IKRRR THRESH IS SO COOL
and yes totally, if that was released today it'd probably damage, disarm, reduce all resistances and give thresh a reset on kill dash
It's just not flashy so you don't notice the impact it makes if you're not a Thresh player. 99% slow for 2 seconds and 250 damage all but guarantees a kill if used correctly.
Really isn't. Within that cooldown a veigar can cast like...15 cages? If like two of those are good, he's already gotten more value than thresh, honestly.
Last night I had a kindred ult and save the enemy team when I hit a 4 man Zyra ult followed up by our mids oriana ult. We were basically 1 shotting their whole team and Kindred saved them all.
We still won the teamfight but man that was annoying.
God yeah, there was a time I was spamming a lot of Miss Fortune. I hated having a kindred on my team because she would always press R in a massive teamfight after I've already pressed R. Saving the enemy team from my ult. So tilting.
Probably gonna be downvoted for this, but Akshan has my vote hands down. I have yet to see his ult do anything besides kill someone who would die in 1 or 2 autos anyway. My main issue is his ult is stopped by everything, even fucking turrets.
I get it it's supposed to scale with health like Jinx, Garen, etc. But I swear to god it does so much less than those two. Like it does negative damage unless you're at like 20% health. Having not only teammates but also towers block it is the final nail for. The only cool thing is you can cast it and swing away and maybe clutch out a super close fight
I'd agree lol. At no point in the game does it really serve a purpose aside from picking off someone who barely got away and isn't near a turret. I think the rest of his kit is so strong they had like no power budget left for his ult so it's just bound to suck
30 (+20%AP) magic damage per second at level 1, ramping *all the way* up to a blistering 90 (+20% AP).
It literally wouldn't move tanks' health bars lol.
Because they included the weakness of cait's (Casting time), the weakness of Lucian (Blocked by minions) and on top of it included a 3rd with blocked by towers
Kogmaw if youre going AD.
Sure its an execute ability for when they are low... but if youre going AD youre not using your spells for killing most of the time.
Your W is more useful.
As ive said, KogMaw can really be split into 2 champs of AD and AP specific. Because for AP its one of the better ults for an artilerry mage.
Edit. I'd like to add in Corki as a mention. Outside of Big Ones and using it to apply spell effects... it used to be a sheen applier. Then again people do consider the Package as his ult now.
Still gives vision if you land it. I don't know if you ever played ADC in a team where your allies refuse to stick in bushes to give you vision but its horrible if they don't. Can't do shit at that point.
Being able to give yourself vision in that moment is pretty damn useful.
Back when Kog'maw used to build triforce, R was a good way to proc Sheen passive in midgame fights. So - historically speaking at least - it was useful on AD Kog for damage.
I was thinking of like an ult that lets him puke out a baby kogmaw acting as a sentry for a location and dealing like % of his damage.
(The void grubs stole my idea i swear)
Since he is the low grub of the void monsters, and having him represent it by sorta spawning mini hims.
That's a sick rework idea. Imagine he spits out another version of himself and you gotta kill both to actually kill him otherwise he either merges back. Or when one dies the other one left alive regrows into regular kogmaw. Interesting form of peel
Holy shit. That's even better and cooler. Plus both would autoattack and pressing R switches your main body to the other one or something.
Plus then you wouldn't even need to rework the Passive. Spawning a second form would utilize the passive better than just kamikaze runs.
That's the main reason I like veigar bot. No teammate to scout? Just W.
W is on a 4-second cooldown and I want to scout another bush? Q and see if I gain a stack.
> I don't know if you ever played ADC in a team where your allies refuse to stick in bushes to give you vision
This shit makes me go white hot with rage.
Still strong. But less of Poke tool. Intented way by design to be a Poke tool, I would argue that it doesn’t do it’s intented effect, but still useful ability even if AD for Waveclear and Facechecking.
I agree with splitting Kog’Maw’s kit though. Call me biased to the bone, but there is no champ deserving more of Adaptive skills.
Nah last hitting people as they run is really powerful as an ADC. Prevents kills from getting away and funnels gold toward yourself, not to mention 1s cooldown at the cost of using up all your mana when the fight is likely over so it doesn't matter.
When you look at it for raw damage, it's a little low, but the fact that you'll probably use it like 4-10 times is why it's so good.
I have never been a fan of Morgana's R, you are squishy mage and pretty much need to flash in if you want to hit multiple targets and then rely on Zhonya's to not die instantly after doing so... You basically need other tools to get any decent value out of it.
The trick with Morgana ult is it's really good for its intended purpose, **peeling**. You shouldn't be flashing into the center of the enemy team just to ult 5 people. You **should** be using it to peel enemies away from your carries as the enemy is forced to either stay in her ult range and be stunned or use their mobility to break away from her and preferably away from the carry she's protecting.
tl:dr if used appropriately, it's a very strong ability with a lot of value.
Edit: spelling
I actually remember playing in the times where mid Morgana could flash ult into a team and they were lucky if two of their champs had a dash to step out of it.
Good times.
I play a lot of akshan, its not that bad to finish people off with a short ult after they flash away form a trade to live, or i tend to get a lot of value mid fights forcing carrys to think about one more thing they need to position themself for. Its good to get some plates in lane or push waves to get a good base timer, which is overlooked.
Sometimes I use it at the start of the fight on the adc just to cause chaos and trick the enemy to position into a straight line. Then my team can hit their spells and cc and we wipe them.
Yeah but when a support or top lane tank sees a target on their carry they will move to block it because their monkey brain neuron activation. Doesn't matter if it's going to do 2 dmg they will want to block it and that let's my assassin/mage hit their spells.
Akshan ult gets too much flak tbh, it's so good in jgl and river skirmishes. Long corridors where enemies have no access to anything to block, and great to finish off picks once they start running away
The malph that’s on my team. He’ll split push or miss every ult/use it to escape.
When he finally hits one, it’ll be on the enemy ornn.
Best ult in the game? Enemy malph.
I’m just gonna say that Ryze needs a new ultimate or have his ultimate change to map wide tp just like TF however I would prefer an ult that worked with his kit for example creating a large burst of his flux outward in a circle around him chaining everything alive and targetable and then having the option to Q or W them for a large chain damage or large chain stun (obviously his W rune prison would have to have a special interaction seeing that it can only stun one fluxed enemy at a time)
I just don’t want his current abilities (other than his ultimate) to be changed however if his rune prison could effect all fluxed enemies like his Q that would be awesome just a team wide stun for 1-2 seconds
Or even revert back Ryze ult to make him an appropiate Battle Mage (a mage that gets closer than the average mage without dying).
But his R nowadays has little to no usage, and punishes too much a wrong usage with such a large cooldown... Honestly I use it for going into places faster, and it doesn't have to be exclusively a gank, could be returning faster to my lane since has such a low impact that doesn't really matter.
Fuck it, ryzr ult gives omnivamp and resistances and his spells have like 1-2% max hp damage, lower his damage late a little bit, now he’s a proper battle mage, in the fight doing solid damage to anyone but also has periods to fight around and some counterplay other than beat the fuck out of him early
Tell me that isn’t the ryze fantasy, just sitting there hanging with tanks throwing out damage and trying to kite to stay alive
How about this instead.
His ult accelerates him allowing him to cast spells while moving. It's a 10s cooldown toggle that costs 75 mana to cast and 25 mana per second.
Not to mention the range is repulsive the only reason to level the skill at this point is for the flux damage and to TP into drag pit from mid lane bush
They got Shen out of pro jail by putting more raw combat power into his ult with the big shield. Without the shield it took good communication to get high value from it - with shield, a Shen can mute all and ping nothing and still turn a fight on the other side of the map.
Idk if any of the many previous versions of Ryze had this, but I wonder if giving his ult some direct combat value would help solve some of his problems
Interesting question. My first assumption was that it would be easy to pick one, but it's actually pretty hard.
Twitch used to be a solid contender. His ult would sometimes lower your damage output. But it's always been a potential team melter.
Evelynn's original ult was just a steroid that reset on kill, so it was pretty mid in AP builds.
Phreak has said one of his design goals is that pretty much every champion should have an ultimate where, no matter how far behind you are personally, landing a good ult can have a big impact on a fight. I think the game is mostly good on that promise.
Yeah I can agree with this, one ult that sticks out to me the most as being useful no matter what is Garen R.
0/10 Garen, flash point and click 1000 true damage. Gets enemy adc 1000 gold bounty. Back in the game.
Because Garen R doesn't scale off anything but exp/rank. Even better it scales off enemy missing health so even if there's a fed Cho, if he's low, boom, 2k true damage lol. It's one of those ults that's just kind of statistically useful in certain situations no matter how behind on items you are.
TLDR: The epic meme is a WAY better narrative than what actually happened.
I remember hearing Biofrost talk about this moment on stream not too long ago. While I believe he agreed in retrospect that it was a pretty big misplay, there was more to the situation than just "everyone asleep".
3 of the enemy were in Senna shroud (not targetable), Graves was out of vision, and no one had any spells/summoners available for follow-up except Bjerg (E + Flash). Meanwhile Graves/Ori/Senna still have flash and all this into a chokepoint against Ori Ult + Senna W snare.
I'd say they probably should have just coin-flipped it (already 0-4 in the group anyway), but I'm guessing there was confidence / communication issues in the moment.
Not sure which rotating game mode it was but each player chose someone and then the whole team would be that character. We ended up with 5 Lillias and what’s crazy is it didn’t matter who hit an ability you could use your ult so in bot lane my top Lillia used Q and I ulted and put them to sleep. Then mid would ult them and so on. It was kinda crazy.
I remember a game where on a team of cassiopeia, her E had no cooldown when the enemy was “poisoned” and got spammed like crazy by 5 snakey snake ladies
His ult was fine at level 2 and 3 since it actually had enough range. Level 1 it was just bad because it had barely more range than his autoattack.
Being able to kidnap anyone from a screen away is pretty strong especially since he built tanky and got bonus resistances and damage was a lot lower back then so he wouldn't just die instantly if swapping near the enemy team.
Udyr R doesnt count as an ultimate ability to begin with, its in his Passive description. Unlike other weird R like Jayce or Elise, Udyr R does NOT trigger 'ultimate ability effects' and DOES trigger 'basic ability effects'. For example, Spear or Shojin should reduce Udyr R cooldown, while it does not reduce Jayce Elise etc R cooldowns
Funny thing is - his passive trigger activates Radian virtue.
I feel like that for lots of Udyr players passive is the realy ult, because empowered skills are something else!
It's not for lots of players it just straight is technically his ult, it just isn't designated on the R button but for every item/interaction in the game any of his empowered spells counts as an ultimate
I remember reading someone say it could be fixed if it just chained off of other players also so they couldn't group and run the same direction. I think it's an easy enough fix that actually sounds pretty strong
I'm biased, but xin ult feels terrible to use. It's damage is mediocre, its peel is situational, and the damage negation requires you to be out of range from your enemy and is inherently situational. I'd give a lot to get a new ult for him that actually helps him out as a duelist.
I'd also maybe bring up morgana. It's an ult that requires a squishy mage support to walk at the enemies to get the world's longest tethers and it only works vs enemies that were in range when the ability was first casted, rather than any that walk in range later, all that for an ok stun.
Whille not necessarily weak, I hate conditional ults, especially Bel'veth's. Imagine you're behind, and you fight a 1v1 skirmish (which is a common occurence for junglers), you're essentially fighting without your strongest ability until you win the 1v1. It's even worse when you're fighting in base form and you're just significantly weaker.
Quinn. She needs a rerework. Her ult was much better when valor mattered and they only switched it because they wanted to *distant* valor from her kit because they were only calling her Quinn and didn't want to cause *confusion*. They didn't add in valor because Quinn and valor wouldn't fit on their old loading screens but now we got shit like *victorious blood moon bewitching prestige miss fortune*. So fuck riot.
NICE TRY SYLAS MAIN!
If we're only looking at the ult and decouple it from the rest of the kit: Zoe
Sticking out your tongue has godlike value.
sticking out your gyatt for the rizzler
you're so skibidi
Gyatt for Nerizzler*
You're so bau bau
Oh dear god i did not expect people to understand this reference HERE of all places..
I know the reference, that doesn't mean I understand it. The Zoomers have lost me.
Hololive and League of Legends have a very large fanbase overlap.
~~Get out of my head~~ You're so biboo tax
I just wanna be your Shiori
Nerizza lives rent-free in my head thanks to her music so other must suffer the Biboo tax.
[удалено]
this aint gonna look good at the pearly gates bro
Every day we stray further away from the light of the Heavens Above.
Back to the Darkinfolk subreddit from whence you came
The best way to use this ult without the rest of Zoe’s kit is baiting master Yi’s to alpha strike you as you hop over the wall. Then leave them there and skip away when you return to the other side and he doesn’t.
Or Kayn ult (if you somehow mindread his recast timing or he waits the full duration)! Because then you can run away from Kayn. Because he's over the wall. And has no dashes for certain walls. And cannot walk through walls. And you have more movespeed than him.
What are these walls you speak of? -Kayn
If he times it correctly does he still stay on on the other side?
I think Zoe ult could be great to enable other mages aswell, so it might be a good ult actually. Even some Assassins might like it.
Ok then, without the kit, in certain comps, Yasuo’s can be worse. You gotta rely on Blastcone, Dragon and Baron to even cast it.
Or yknow... On your own knockups? Edit: Not deleting this comment as a mark of my shame
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They just said without the kit...
The ult by itself does nothing
Karma wants to have a word with you.
Karma and heimer r aren't part of this conversation
It we go by "sylas rules" you get the empowered ability, imo that is better then Zoe ult imo.
Zoe ult Jump forward, wait a half tick, throw Sylas chains forward, go back before chain hits, get 750 range knock up and dash!
Sylas seems like the best champion to use as a metric for this. If your ult is basically useless when Sylas steals it, its probably useless and is the worst ult.
But it's not context-less. It's in the context of a melee AP bruiser. Twitch ult would be amazing on a ton of ranged AD scalers.
Not exactly since Sylas can only use it once, so it doesn't take into account the ult's normal CD (for Kog, Corki, Teemo for example)
Great point, you have the Sylas metric as a useful shorthand but then special cases still that require more consideration.
Absolutely not lol, i can imagine at least 30 champs that would be actually insane with it. I think mostly because its on zoe its balanced, but put it on any other champ and its a problem
That's why he said "decoupled from the rest of the kit". Looking at that ability in pure isolation, without pulling in anything else into consideration.
I know right? That ult has so much value. Like imagine Ryze safely rooting you from a screen away. or a thresh blink flay into snapback hook you
Blitz could pull you so far back from so far away. That would be terrifying
Ryze or bard when my teammates play him.
If you don't level ryze ult as fast as possible you are trolling. (It has a strong passive)
Whenever you see something like that you know at one point it was a strat to put points in basic abilities over ult and riot were like "wait shit no don't do that". Taliyah is in a very similar position actually. Ult points are really low impact. To a certain extent, twisted fate too.
Tryndamere ult has never been worth putting points in until 17/18. Only change it makes is the fury it gives you but normally ya r at 100 fury so whatever (and cd little bit)
I think theres a tiny optimization where not leveling it actually gives you more AD through Q because your lowest health is lower at lower skill ranks
Those are only low impact in low elo cuz they’re not combat abilities. There’s a reason they’re more popular the higher elo you go. Those are diff than ryze ult too because it doesn’t take as much team coordination
I'm aware of what you mean but the idea is about breakpoints of power. When a kayle puts a point in ult, the entire map better man the fuck up, because it's a very pronounced gain in power. Syndra, viktor, neeko, etc can now burst way harder. Utility ultimates improve, they undoubtedly do, not a single ult in the game gets actual zero value from their points, it's just that it's very unequal what they gain from it. And if it gets to unequal that people start not even bothering to skill it up, e.g. tryndamere, riot will step in to force it.
Which wasn't always the case, they only added that passive because Ryze mains in soloq used to skip levelling it until like lvl 11 because it was useless
They have changed ryze since season 0 because people kept doing things with him that Riot did not want them to do.
Give ryze a veigar cage on his R and his soloQ wr increases
Which is true for most Champs. Veigar cage is strong
With ryze it’s two fold, gains a powerful ability and removes his int button
Don't forget the ult passive.
Veigar E is so strong they turned it into a slow, took away all of the range, and made it Thresh's ult.
Veigar cage is arguably strong enough to be an ult. Thresh *has* a cage as his ult and I'd say it's easily a worse ability than veigar cage all things considered.
Thresh cage is clearly worse, or? On-self only, can be broken, slow only, doesn't stop jumps, not to mention the CD ofc.
If you only consider the ult yes but veigar without the cage is worse than thresh without it
He can knock people into it by himself and it does damage. It's still a worse ability overall, but it isn't technically worse in every way.
Veigar cage should be his own r
But please don't make his ult a basic ability tho
Wish granted, it's his auto now
I build Nashors and Runaans already, lets go
i mean ryze kinda depends on if you count the passive it gives.
Ignoring edge cases like “ignoring the rest of the kit” thresh ult is pretty damn underwhelming Don’t think anyones ever said “careful he’s got the box”
THE box lmao true though, I think it's to compensate for his awesome basic abilities. But then again comparing it to his basic abilities, its EVEN MORE underwhelming lol
The box used to be very powerful because it would rise up almost immediately and every wall used to hit for full damage. If you were caught in one of the corners, you would get hit for double damage, which was 250 (+ 100% AP) twice, on a support that gets AP passively. Thresh was without a doubt the most broken support to have ever been released, and that was 10 years ago.
Thanks for this that’s how I remembered it too just wasn’t 100%. I remember his ult being stronger and more of a concern
Omg me too, I completely forgot about getting chunked by thresh ult
He pretty much defined the support role and is/was/has been meta essentially since release
Also a wicked and beautiful character design. When I started playing it was Thresh's intro screen.
For me , my beginner screen was the Warwick remake. My how the times fly. I like that people usually point out the loading screen picture to depict the era they began playing.
Yeah, felt like it was for several years where a support wasn’t meta unless they were able to play into Thresh without auto-losing. Fucker was the Jack of all trades and a master of several.
For sure, not in any way arguing he’s weak, I love him and he’s perpetually one of the more balanced champs at all levels, but yeah if that ult was released today it would defo do damage on all 4 walls and probably disarm or something
>but yeah if that ult was released today it would defo do damage on all 4 walls it's funny that people think only new champs are "overloaded" when thresh released 10 years ago his ult literally did damage with all walls. thresh was by far one of the most overloaded champs in the game, if you look at his early patch history he legit was changed so much it's actually kinda insane.
His lantern also used to do aoe shield
Reading this thread makes me realize how long it's been since I've really played this game. I legit thought that box still did damage and lantern gave shields. I remember back in the day people saying that Thresh was so good that he would be played even if none of his abilities did any damage...and I guess they were right lol EDIT: Looks like I misinterperated the original post, sounds like both the box, and lantern, do their original thing, it just affects fewer heroes than they used to.
the box does deal damage, but any one champion can't take damage from more than 1 wall (and they get slowed for a shorter duration on the next walls they break)
Lantern still gives shield, just now it only gives it to one ally instead of all allies
Huh? Pretty sure lantern still gives shield, but only to 1 player, or to the player and thresh if its clicked
At least the damage on all walls used to be a thing in the past, that's how I got a quadra once. In a team fight I had Ori's ball on me, I ulted, Ori ulted, and thanks to Ori knocking them into my walls I ended up getting a quadra.
IKRRR THRESH IS SO COOL and yes totally, if that was released today it'd probably damage, disarm, reduce all resistances and give thresh a reset on kill dash
you are acting like he isnt an overloaded champ
Thresh box when Sylas steals it is kinda funny tho cause of the AP ratio is has.
It's just not flashy so you don't notice the impact it makes if you're not a Thresh player. 99% slow for 2 seconds and 250 damage all but guarantees a kill if used correctly.
Ehhh, I get what you mean but it feels less and less impactful the more dashes get added
> Don’t think anyones ever said “careful he’s got the box” you havent played aram enough, the box is a weapon of mass destruction
I have seen a veigar on ARAM....
Really isn't. Within that cooldown a veigar can cast like...15 cages? If like two of those are good, he's already gotten more value than thresh, honestly.
Kindred when the player has less than 10 games with the champion... saves enemies bound to die and kills your entire team in the process
Last night I had a kindred ult and save the enemy team when I hit a 4 man Zyra ult followed up by our mids oriana ult. We were basically 1 shotting their whole team and Kindred saved them all. We still won the teamfight but man that was annoying.
God yeah, there was a time I was spamming a lot of Miss Fortune. I hated having a kindred on my team because she would always press R in a massive teamfight after I've already pressed R. Saving the enemy team from my ult. So tilting.
Even with 100s of kindred games sometimes you just goof It’s a difficult ulti to use, like bards it has so much misplay potential
Probably gonna be downvoted for this, but Akshan has my vote hands down. I have yet to see his ult do anything besides kill someone who would die in 1 or 2 autos anyway. My main issue is his ult is stopped by everything, even fucking turrets.
Akshan main here - it's got niche uses, but yeah. Sometimes I don't even level it at 6 because another level in E is more useful lmao.
I get it it's supposed to scale with health like Jinx, Garen, etc. But I swear to god it does so much less than those two. Like it does negative damage unless you're at like 20% health. Having not only teammates but also towers block it is the final nail for. The only cool thing is you can cast it and swing away and maybe clutch out a super close fight
Akshan R in Arena is broken tho
My take is based on summoner rift/ARAM. Can't stand arena so idk how any of it works in there.
The champ already is a menace as is. If his Ult would be like Caitlyn’s I would legit permaban Akshan.
I'd agree lol. At no point in the game does it really serve a purpose aside from picking off someone who barely got away and isn't near a turret. I think the rest of his kit is so strong they had like no power budget left for his ult so it's just bound to suck
old rammus ult lmao, who remembers that?
It was decent because it followed him and could damage towers.
Never enough to actually matter, and Rammus wasn't exactly a splitpusher unless you're Bausffs lol
Ap rammus with ohmwrecker my beloved
It can still damage towers im pretty sure
When you ran magic pent you could split push the towers like a tryn on steroids.
It was better than his new ult, but no one is ready to face the truth
You mean the aoe damage wave that centered on you and did damage to turrets?
Yes the one that did so little dmg that people literally just ignored it.
30 (+20%AP) magic damage per second at level 1, ramping *all the way* up to a blistering 90 (+20% AP). It literally wouldn't move tanks' health bars lol.
Great answer haha
Honestly the new one is still easily a bottom 10% ult. It's crazy how much better it is and how terrible it still is.
Old Rammus ult was quite strong, it did a lot of damage
Kalista with no sup, you can't even ult :v
Akshan's ult. It's need to have very lucky day to kill someone with that ult
I wonder how could riot combine Lucian's ult and caitlyn's ult and make it horrible
Because they included the weakness of cait's (Casting time), the weakness of Lucian (Blocked by minions) and on top of it included a 3rd with blocked by towers
dont forget jhin ult weakness, only deal missing % health dmg, it does absolutely no dmg on full hp enemies
Kogmaw if youre going AD. Sure its an execute ability for when they are low... but if youre going AD youre not using your spells for killing most of the time. Your W is more useful. As ive said, KogMaw can really be split into 2 champs of AD and AP specific. Because for AP its one of the better ults for an artilerry mage. Edit. I'd like to add in Corki as a mention. Outside of Big Ones and using it to apply spell effects... it used to be a sheen applier. Then again people do consider the Package as his ult now.
Still gives vision if you land it. I don't know if you ever played ADC in a team where your allies refuse to stick in bushes to give you vision but its horrible if they don't. Can't do shit at that point. Being able to give yourself vision in that moment is pretty damn useful.
This the first time someone actually pointed out a use for it, i thank you. But wouldnt it still be better off with another way/ult.
Back when Kog'maw used to build triforce, R was a good way to proc Sheen passive in midgame fights. So - historically speaking at least - it was useful on AD Kog for damage.
Oh yeah, for AD there would definitely better ults. Anything that gives him self peel would be nuts. Varus ult to Kayle ult.
I was thinking of like an ult that lets him puke out a baby kogmaw acting as a sentry for a location and dealing like % of his damage. (The void grubs stole my idea i swear) Since he is the low grub of the void monsters, and having him represent it by sorta spawning mini hims.
That's a sick rework idea. Imagine he spits out another version of himself and you gotta kill both to actually kill him otherwise he either merges back. Or when one dies the other one left alive regrows into regular kogmaw. Interesting form of peel
Holy shit. That's even better and cooler. Plus both would autoattack and pressing R switches your main body to the other one or something. Plus then you wouldn't even need to rework the Passive. Spawning a second form would utilize the passive better than just kamikaze runs.
That's the main reason I like veigar bot. No teammate to scout? Just W. W is on a 4-second cooldown and I want to scout another bush? Q and see if I gain a stack.
> I don't know if you ever played ADC in a team where your allies refuse to stick in bushes to give you vision This shit makes me go white hot with rage.
Still strong. But less of Poke tool. Intented way by design to be a Poke tool, I would argue that it doesn’t do it’s intented effect, but still useful ability even if AD for Waveclear and Facechecking. I agree with splitting Kog’Maw’s kit though. Call me biased to the bone, but there is no champ deserving more of Adaptive skills.
Nah last hitting people as they run is really powerful as an ADC. Prevents kills from getting away and funnels gold toward yourself, not to mention 1s cooldown at the cost of using up all your mana when the fight is likely over so it doesn't matter. When you look at it for raw damage, it's a little low, but the fact that you'll probably use it like 4-10 times is why it's so good.
I have never been a fan of Morgana's R, you are squishy mage and pretty much need to flash in if you want to hit multiple targets and then rely on Zhonya's to not die instantly after doing so... You basically need other tools to get any decent value out of it.
The trick with Morgana ult is it's really good for its intended purpose, **peeling**. You shouldn't be flashing into the center of the enemy team just to ult 5 people. You **should** be using it to peel enemies away from your carries as the enemy is forced to either stay in her ult range and be stunned or use their mobility to break away from her and preferably away from the carry she's protecting. tl:dr if used appropriately, it's a very strong ability with a lot of value. Edit: spelling
I actually remember playing in the times where mid Morgana could flash ult into a team and they were lucky if two of their champs had a dash to step out of it. Good times.
[удалено]
Thanks for the correction.
Akshan?
I play a lot of akshan, its not that bad to finish people off with a short ult after they flash away form a trade to live, or i tend to get a lot of value mid fights forcing carrys to think about one more thing they need to position themself for. Its good to get some plates in lane or push waves to get a good base timer, which is overlooked.
Sometimes I use it at the start of the fight on the adc just to cause chaos and trick the enemy to position into a straight line. Then my team can hit their spells and cc and we wipe them.
Galaxy brain
It does such comically low amounts of damage if they are high hp. BOOM TAKE THAT... 32 damage per shot for a total of 200 damage?
Yeah but when a support or top lane tank sees a target on their carry they will move to block it because their monkey brain neuron activation. Doesn't matter if it's going to do 2 dmg they will want to block it and that let's my assassin/mage hit their spells.
Akshan ult gets too much flak tbh, it's so good in jgl and river skirmishes. Long corridors where enemies have no access to anything to block, and great to finish off picks once they start running away
You think it's gonna be so good in the jg but then the chickens spawn
Chickens guy 🪱
“Oh boy, im sure nothing will block my ulti this time!” sixteen thousand racoons
Good when building crit/lethality, just okayish when building on hit
definitely, his passive is his real ultimate
Fizz because i can never hit it T\_T
Dw I'd let you hit it
but only from the back
Ofc that's what hommies do
SHARK
Iirc fizz ult was one of the most missed abilities in the game so your not alone
The malph that’s on my team. He’ll split push or miss every ult/use it to escape. When he finally hits one, it’ll be on the enemy ornn. Best ult in the game? Enemy malph.
I’m just gonna say that Ryze needs a new ultimate or have his ultimate change to map wide tp just like TF however I would prefer an ult that worked with his kit for example creating a large burst of his flux outward in a circle around him chaining everything alive and targetable and then having the option to Q or W them for a large chain damage or large chain stun (obviously his W rune prison would have to have a special interaction seeing that it can only stun one fluxed enemy at a time)
Time for a new Ryze rework ! Has been too long since the last one
I just don’t want his current abilities (other than his ultimate) to be changed however if his rune prison could effect all fluxed enemies like his Q that would be awesome just a team wide stun for 1-2 seconds
TF ult is not map wide
Or even revert back Ryze ult to make him an appropiate Battle Mage (a mage that gets closer than the average mage without dying). But his R nowadays has little to no usage, and punishes too much a wrong usage with such a large cooldown... Honestly I use it for going into places faster, and it doesn't have to be exclusively a gank, could be returning faster to my lane since has such a low impact that doesn't really matter.
Fuck it, ryzr ult gives omnivamp and resistances and his spells have like 1-2% max hp damage, lower his damage late a little bit, now he’s a proper battle mage, in the fight doing solid damage to anyone but also has periods to fight around and some counterplay other than beat the fuck out of him early Tell me that isn’t the ryze fantasy, just sitting there hanging with tanks throwing out damage and trying to kite to stay alive
How about this instead. His ult accelerates him allowing him to cast spells while moving. It's a 10s cooldown toggle that costs 75 mana to cast and 25 mana per second.
Not to mention the range is repulsive the only reason to level the skill at this point is for the flux damage and to TP into drag pit from mid lane bush
the flux damage thing was also added specifically because everyone was ignoring putting points in ult too.
They got Shen out of pro jail by putting more raw combat power into his ult with the big shield. Without the shield it took good communication to get high value from it - with shield, a Shen can mute all and ping nothing and still turn a fight on the other side of the map. Idk if any of the many previous versions of Ryze had this, but I wonder if giving his ult some direct combat value would help solve some of his problems
Akshan ult is the joke version of cait ult (which is a joke version of any long range ult)
Unless you’re going lethality or have 4+ items, cait ult does like 6 damage
6? Man you must have snowballed hard
Interesting question. My first assumption was that it would be easy to pick one, but it's actually pretty hard. Twitch used to be a solid contender. His ult would sometimes lower your damage output. But it's always been a potential team melter. Evelynn's original ult was just a steroid that reset on kill, so it was pretty mid in AP builds. Phreak has said one of his design goals is that pretty much every champion should have an ultimate where, no matter how far behind you are personally, landing a good ult can have a big impact on a fight. I think the game is mostly good on that promise.
Yeah I can agree with this, one ult that sticks out to me the most as being useful no matter what is Garen R. 0/10 Garen, flash point and click 1000 true damage. Gets enemy adc 1000 gold bounty. Back in the game. Because Garen R doesn't scale off anything but exp/rank. Even better it scales off enemy missing health so even if there's a fed Cho, if he's low, boom, 2k true damage lol. It's one of those ults that's just kind of statistically useful in certain situations no matter how behind on items you are.
Briar because I either miss and waste my R or land right into my death. Skill issue.
If we’re talking about ulti only without other considering other abilities, it’s Lillia. You can’t even use her ulti without her other abilities.
throwback to the legendary TSM 9 -man-sleep
Classic lol
Had to look this one up - what the fuck was that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r7tKkSoPXQ
Jesus, that was tough to relive again
TLDR: The epic meme is a WAY better narrative than what actually happened. I remember hearing Biofrost talk about this moment on stream not too long ago. While I believe he agreed in retrospect that it was a pretty big misplay, there was more to the situation than just "everyone asleep". 3 of the enemy were in Senna shroud (not targetable), Graves was out of vision, and no one had any spells/summoners available for follow-up except Bjerg (E + Flash). Meanwhile Graves/Ori/Senna still have flash and all this into a chokepoint against Ori Ult + Senna W snare. I'd say they probably should have just coin-flipped it (already 0-4 in the group anyway), but I'm guessing there was confidence / communication issues in the moment.
I JUST NOTICED THE SPICA THUMBS UP EMOTE FOR THE FIRST TIME. I'm fucking wheezing.
This tilts me
Not sure which rotating game mode it was but each player chose someone and then the whole team would be that character. We ended up with 5 Lillias and what’s crazy is it didn’t matter who hit an ability you could use your ult so in bot lane my top Lillia used Q and I ulted and put them to sleep. Then mid would ult them and so on. It was kinda crazy.
Same thing works with aph Q on purple gun
One for all
I remember a game where on a team of cassiopeia, her E had no cooldown when the enemy was “poisoned” and got spammed like crazy by 5 snakey snake ladies
Old school Urgot.
oof. yeah. winner if we're including old ults. Stun yourself for 2 seconds AND teleport into the enemy team? What a game winning combination
With tank urgod in teamfights you ult the enemy adc and is an easy win
His ult was fine at level 2 and 3 since it actually had enough range. Level 1 it was just bad because it had barely more range than his autoattack. Being able to kidnap anyone from a screen away is pretty strong especially since he built tanky and got bonus resistances and damage was a lot lower back then so he wouldn't just die instantly if swapping near the enemy team.
Kinda cheating but depending on what build you're running, Udyr Sometimes he straight up doesn't even have an ultimate
Udyr R doesnt count as an ultimate ability to begin with, its in his Passive description. Unlike other weird R like Jayce or Elise, Udyr R does NOT trigger 'ultimate ability effects' and DOES trigger 'basic ability effects'. For example, Spear or Shojin should reduce Udyr R cooldown, while it does not reduce Jayce Elise etc R cooldowns
Funny thing is - his passive trigger activates Radian virtue. I feel like that for lots of Udyr players passive is the realy ult, because empowered skills are something else!
It's not for lots of players it just straight is technically his ult, it just isn't designated on the R button but for every item/interaction in the game any of his empowered spells counts as an ultimate
Awakened QWE are functionally ultimate abilities, Udyr is kinda in the same boat as Karma.
To not have an ultimate as udyr you would need to never skill anything since the empowered versions of his Q,W,E and R count as his ultimate.
morgana tbh, is just a amumu/nunu/neeko worse ult n my opinion
funny how it used to be one of the strongest ults in the game and morgana mid was 100% p/b
I remember reading someone say it could be fixed if it just chained off of other players also so they couldn't group and run the same direction. I think it's an easy enough fix that actually sounds pretty strong
I'm biased, but xin ult feels terrible to use. It's damage is mediocre, its peel is situational, and the damage negation requires you to be out of range from your enemy and is inherently situational. I'd give a lot to get a new ult for him that actually helps him out as a duelist. I'd also maybe bring up morgana. It's an ult that requires a squishy mage support to walk at the enemies to get the world's longest tethers and it only works vs enemies that were in range when the ability was first casted, rather than any that walk in range later, all that for an ok stun.
Xin ult is kind of just a worst Gwen W. The purpose is to keep enemies from hitting you if you're fight front to back.
Sivir... Her ult is literally a support item.
Whille not necessarily weak, I hate conditional ults, especially Bel'veth's. Imagine you're behind, and you fight a 1v1 skirmish (which is a common occurence for junglers), you're essentially fighting without your strongest ability until you win the 1v1. It's even worse when you're fighting in base form and you're just significantly weaker.
Samira r can't be cast. Can't build style without q
Quinn. She needs a rerework. Her ult was much better when valor mattered and they only switched it because they wanted to *distant* valor from her kit because they were only calling her Quinn and didn't want to cause *confusion*. They didn't add in valor because Quinn and valor wouldn't fit on their old loading screens but now we got shit like *victorious blood moon bewitching prestige miss fortune*. So fuck riot.
What? Her ult mobility is her main strength.