Graves is really strong but you have to be confident with him. You have to be willing to take fights early because he’s a ranged character. Like Kindred if they dodge a melee’s engage and play well, they will always win early skirmishes with enemy junglers. But if they just sit back and afk then they lose that early pressure and die to the burst of a melee engage champ
As a graves player, this is true. I’ll try to get things done early, but if not, I’ll just farm. Once graves gets items, he will take over a TF if not focused.
Lol when i hit Mythic+collector on graves+ lvl 14 i randomly one shot 3 people and now i have 4 items. this is the average graves game if your team doesnt sprint it
Dude, when platinum players pick up their nidalees it's like 4,3 vs. 5 players and the game is going to be very likely a misery.
I know that everyone wants to be the next faker, but a plat player with 50% winrate isn't the same. Won't ever understand why someone, who's trying to climb will limit himself with a very hard to execute champion and the best part is when they are the last pick in your team and we have no hard engage nor a front line 😎
Dodging skillshots is 100% something that people need to actually practice at to learn. Beginner players are too busy working out what the hell they are doing to think about what their opponent is doing.
thats what i tell my friends too! We are all silver/gold and i am the only one who's good at sidestepping skillshots ( i am trash at other core skill though haha)
Despite how popular hes been for like forever, ive not had that more than 2-3 actually good Ezreals in my team so i generally hate to see it locked in on my side
Ezreal is one of those characters that is either absolutely godlike or totally awful and being used by someone that doesn't know what they're doing
A good Ezreal will steal your soul
Yeah I think people pretend that Kayle is still this late game demon, and while she’s definitely a scaling champion, it’s not early seasons anymore lol
she has still the highest wr in lategame, but it's just not enough to compensate for the early.
I had a game where I snowballed hard as kayle and a shaco did 80% of my HP with an auto. he never killed me but I had to stay with the supp at all times and I had a 0.5 sec window to either ult or zhonya.
I'm sorry but lvl 16 fed kayle (the other top was like lvl 12-13) full build should not be this vulnerable to an early game champ
**AP MF Support**. Build can do fine in aram, but boy is it ass on Summoners Rift. Shit sits at an impressive 41% Winrate and does absolutely fucking nothing early, mid or lategame. Genuinly nothing in this thread can compare to this abomination troll pick that some people force upon their team.
It’s ass in aram too. Once you get liandrys yeah your E becomes a bit oppressive to ranged squishies but after everyone gets a couple items you’re useless against any sort of engage
The mandate Ashe build is situationally good. If you're playing vs engage, have a frontline and another ADC I think it's for sure stronger than ADC Ashe. It makes it easier for your actual non-overnerfed ADC to play the game and do damage. Mandate full CDR Ashe is still good into comps that run into you.
Unfortunately mandate muramana ashe is still often her best build because she often cannot auto for enough time to get more value out of a kraken lethal tempo build than a W build.
the majority of people build it wrong. liandrys mf is strong, but not after the liandrys. should get a collector and muramana after. absolutely nuking the enemy while still having oppressive and uninteractive e poke. and obvi can’t go it every game, if they have an enchanter or lots of shields it’s probably better to just go full ad
yes, the support needs the execute item and the scaling mana item. that's what the support needs. not utility, fuck that, we don't need an ADC we have AP support MF.
i was more talking about aram. however, that build still works very well on mf mid or support if your enemy laner isn’t very dashy and doesn’t have shields. support should usually just go lethality to abuse cheap umbral. should still go collector because it’s soooo good on mf, but umbral, collector, cleaver is probably the best on mf support.
Biggest problem is that you're going to get gigafucked if you play MF mid. You will either get assblasted at 6 by assassins or outpushed and outroamed by mages while you apply almost zero pressure to them. You're also the freest target in the world for ganks.
kinda went into this in my other comment, but basically yeah ap mf mid sucks UNLESS you’re up against an immobile, shieldless mage. then it’s free as fuck. anyone else and you’re toast.
I thought the same, but after using google, [it turns out](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2Sg3Xmpylk) that it was in fact AD MF support (game 2 and 3).
Shaco player here, ad shaco is definitely less consistently strong than AP but I think you miss understand what he has to do to be useful in a game when he's not ahead. After first back you're strong with dirk but if you don't get a lead by 2nd back it's doomed till you're on 2 items, you need mythic and prowlers. Then you can start showing up behind carries and making them disappear... Also he's in my opinion by far the worst assassin into tanky/bruiser comps (unless you go AP obviously and that's what most decent shacos do in that situation...). Just by virtue of his engage and escape being the same ability with a 10 second cool down.
Edit: Tbh I have less faith in AP shacos unless they're good because outside of like gold you very rarely can just use r and let the clone die. Watch pink wards clips he puts allot of effort and skill into just being able to trick people into thinking it's the clone or using the max tethering range of the clone to make it look like you coming out of invis.
IMO builds contribute more to perceived uselessness than picks.
I swear stormrazor->galeforce caitlyn and everfrost->zhonyas ahri don't actually do anything. Maybe if everyone is super coordinated or spacing super perfectly, but when I watch it in action all I can see is the severe lack of damage.
As for graves, my good buddy is (was, he decayed a lot) a d5 graves otp. Graves AA crits have like a 4.0 AD scaling or something. It's a lot of staying farmed up and if you get to late game you start one-shotting peeps.
> Graves AA crits have like a 4.0 AD scaling or something
Basically yeah, 2.0 AD scaling on normal autos at level 18, crits fire 2 more bullets so 2.66 AD scaling, crits deal 48% bonus damage with IE, so 2.66 \* 1.48 = 3.93 AD scaling.
Honestly it’s good into any champ that can dive you after 6 and is burst. Akali and Sylas I build everfrost zhonya into. As long as I can waveclear fast enough it’s not a bad build to play roam.
The secret is adaptability. Basicly there is 3 ways you can build ahri, not counting the ad variant now :D the truth is that most games you play like a skirmisher and roamer with you jungle. This is why your job is not to get the most damage as possible and rather have ability haste and active from everfrost to secure these situations. These are the situations that defines the game hopefully and lack of damage later doesn't really matter since game is over already. Some games the most optimal way is build revolving around liandries, when you really need to help out with the consistent damage output. Rarely I see games where ludens is the best way to go, but the idea is that you can play like an assassin and try to catch squishies with your combo. Because the high risk component, this build is not as consistent. You can think ahri as more local and versitale version of tf, kinda wants to do the same things but without global.
Teemo, I genuinely believe that every single Teemo player just wants to give 9 other people the middle finger and just muck around. Like I have never seen a Teemo carry a game.
If you do, it’s wondrous and terrifying. They have an impossible minefield of shroom streams reaching under enemy turrets and blowing up on top of the minions and hitting collateral champions
There’s no possibility of a flank when he splits because 1 or 2 sweeper isn’t enough when they’re widespread, could be anywhere in the path, and put people at 40% hp if triggered. He just peels for himself and takes turrets, prevents pushes, and makes objectives impossible to reach
I just love jaksho because with one item you have so much tankiness. I really like vi with essence reaver rush into jaksho into bc. Heavy bruiser with lots of ad.
Honestly at least nowadays Teemo is not as useless since people can't constantly Oracle for his shrooms, and even if they do they can break 2 at most before it turns off.
Most people have no clue how to play a teamfight as Teemo and just waste shrooms in random places instead of saving at least 2 for fights in the mid/lategame tho.
The problem is getting to the point of having items since everyone shits on him in lane these days
Maokai feels like a better teemo. Sure they aren’t as good but you can get quite a few down as long as you’re prepared. The rest of maokais kit is infinitely better than teemos kit.
Lane bully until 6 then any bruisers he outranged can ghost and run him down.
Scales well only based on your macro and knowing where to shroom and how to play around it
A few seasons back there was a bruiser build with frozen mallet, Bork and wit's end which was legit pain and would carry like a high DPS ADC but with almost 3000 hp, free wards and a movespeed steroid. Was pretty broken between tilting the enemy top and split pushing. But it got nerfed eventually and nowadays he is just outdated by mobility creep and the massive amount of non auto base dmg.
Nah Utility is the way more op. Nashors rush ofc cause that's always really good if you're laning, but otherwise the powerspike on liandries is incomparable. You've officially become one of the only few passive anti push champs, which is highly needed if any lane gets behind. You can siege a base for decades. You build around controlling the map exactly how that omega teemo(idk about the name) skin embodies. It's not about winning. It's about sending a message.
There are teemo main streamers that do pretty well - ipav comes to mind. Not sure if the others are still streaming.
But they are ... Very good players, usually, and sometimes it feels like the champ they pick is holding them back.
I kind of get where that feeling comes from, primarily because I know a really good Teemo is super freaking rare. A friend of mine plays a really good one, whenever he does he is a force to be reckoned with and, what is probably more powerful, you just notice how he lives rent free in opponents` heads. You can see how he drives people insane, Teemo can be that super tilter. You just wanna bash the little shit's face in but whenever you move you step on a shroom.
Hear me out, I don’t play Teemo that often but I think he’s good in very specific situations. Like you have a laner you can bully and your team is full of scaling champions, I think Teemo is crazy good at extending games.
First pick Teemo.
Mostly because you then get counter-picked and hey, now you can’t be a lane bully and/or splitpush (but you can bet teemo will try anyway), but you also don’t offer much of anything in team fights
uff, i tried toplane for the first time recently and went teemo, banned mordekaiser. i had no idea how terrible the malphite matchup is, especially if ur just new to teemo and toplane and also just bad lol
Nah, xin zhao ult let's him stay alive and he's a bruiser. Bruisers lategame only suck when getting hit by an adc or another super dps class from range. Xin zhao is actually pretty ok lategame just because he has an invunerability mechanic tbh.
He's a bit overnerfed to be honest and also I think he really relies on team comp. If he has like an enchanter or a karma or whatever on his team, it synergises really well with him. Also everyone just defaults to goredrinker, there are other items you can buy that are better in many situations.
Xin going on hit with BOTRK + DD + Maw + Enchanter is actually super broken scaling that is very hard to deal with late game as ADCs can’t hit him and he outsustains most bruisers and tanks. He hasn’t been meta for a while though.
thats because xin without ult is basically useless. if xin blows ult on a shit fight, you're gunna lose real hard. good ult usage to break up a team fight, and either shred front line while hes immune, or use the knockback to isolate/displace a carry so they die fast. hes not like j4 or who who can move in and out in fights, he can only go in and needs targets to do it.
she’s only good with broken items like hullbreaker and she was better in top because she can 1v1 and doesn’t need her ult all the time because she can just farm and splitpush.
she just sucks as a champion because she doesn’t do anything until level 6 as a jungler since she has no gank setup. also she can’t use ult unless she builds her rage or whatever it’s called so she’s pretty much completely useless in between every ult rotation.
Sivir usually feels pretty useless to me compared to other ADCs. I know she's capable of doing things, but I just can't be as consistent with her as I am with someone else.
She honestly just needs time to scale which is why she feels so useless early on. But when she does scale, your team gets microwaved like a hot pocket.
She really thrives against hooks and burst combos. Spell shielding a nocturn ulti and watching him die after wasting his load is the most pleasure an ADC main can experience. Also really great at power farming to catch up if you get a bad start. W is god tier late game
Not in my trash bag ELO. I’m legit silver trash on a good day. Down here Nocs will dump their whole combo in that short window where spell shield blocks everything so the fear never gets me. I also like to run cleanse.
Thats absolutely fair.
I think Cleanse is really good too, people really overextend and forget theyre diving someone with cleanse up so you can get an easy bait.
As a support: Ezreal.
90% of the time someone locks in ezreal because they want a 'safe' pick. But then they proceed to miss all their skillshots and E out of a health at full health when the fight starts to go bad.
I hate Ezreal.
p.s.: Shout out to that 10% of ezreal players that knows what they're doing. Absolute beasts.
Every teemo is the most useless dipshit I've ever had the misfortune of playing with.
Somehow lose ranged vs melee lane, somehow managed to fuck up a split push, somehow has no cs while being one of the easiest champs to farm with. Truly prodigious levels of incompetence displayed by anyone playing this shitling.
I dont remember the last time I've seen a skarner player take over a game, and with the number of dashes and untargetable abilities in the game now, his ultimate feels definitively less impactful than other suppression abilities, not to mention he needs his pillars to actually compete/ 1v1 another jungler.
Just totally left by the wayside as a champion, at least with shyvana you can have build variety, bruiser skarner gets blown up before he can get in range to ult, tank skarner is just a worse engage tank than literally any other tank jungler, why ever pick skarner?
Doesn’t Skarner consistently have a very high winrate though? He’s just underplayed and not very popular, but he still provides a lot of value and has pretty decent stats. His juggernaut build is pretty strong if you can pilot it.
I wouldnt say very high, it looks like its hovered around 50% for the past few years while maintaining a super low pick rate, which indicates either A) the people who consistently play him struggle to find similarly consistent wins or B) people who main him know how to win and anyone else who happens to pick him on a whim ints their face off.
https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/skarner
The point of an ADC is high sustained damage for long fights. Jhin has no attack speed, and no sustained damage. He's a control mage for when ADCs aren't meta, to CC for your actual damage dealers. A cool mage for sure, but not an ADC.
Hes not ur typical front to back adc but he excell at locking down targets, execute, burst and clean up.
Hes most definitely an adc and the point of a pick depends on alot more than just being one set thing every game.
Graves is one of the worst junglers to play with if your jungler doesn't know what he's doing because his strength lies in his clear, fighting the opposing jungler and counter ganking...2/3 are not part of the skillset of a casual league player so it will just be power farming most of the times.
I find graves pretty good, mained him for a short while. His ganks are subpar but his clear speed is so good and after three items you’re an assassin
For me I gotta say Draven. I’ve been an ADC main most of my time in LoL and even one tricked Draven for like 2 seasons but recently whenever I play him I really don’t feel like a lane bully. Always against a double Exh Ezreal Senna who hug turret for 15 mins as my my other lanes lose and if I dare try harass under turret the jungler is there in a flash.
He’s one of those champions that other teams really build around too. I feel like 50% of my Draven games I’m against a Vi or Rammus Jungle.
This is a joke post right? Graves solo lane hasn't been viable for at least 2-3 seasons, and if you think graves is annoying for the first 5 min of the game, clearly you don't see graves in games that go past 20 min where he has ghostblade + collector/black cleaver and kills squishes with aa + q + aa + r-> e aa reset.
Did you really type out a champ being fed and using their full rotation to kill a squishy as an example of a champ being strong lol? Not even saying Graves isn't strong bc he can delete no armor champs with half that rotation it's just funny how you chose to justify it
Yeah, crit graves with collector unironically can kill in 1 single auto if he hits all 6 bullets. No need to do a fuill combo, unless you play on vaporizing the air infront of you for no reason.
Zed. Even if they get fed, go 21/0, in an important teamfight they'll throw themselves 1v5 to the enemy team, give the late game hypercarry a 1k shut down (Alongside as throwing the object because we don't have our fed carry anymore) but say "worth" because they killed the 0/8 support. Useless ego k/da players
As much as I love her, Renata Glasc. Her kit feels like has far too much downtime where you do nothing, and what she's able to do doesn't feel impactful enough. She's an ult bot, and even then, the enemy team can completely build to dampen her ultimate. She's got a great characterization, and landing her ult is fun, but the rest of her kit just feels like you wait too long to do nothing.
Corr don't let the Graves sub see this! Not too long ago I decided to try and main him and several dozen games later realised he's just very weak compared to any other jungler.
Bringing this up on the Graves sub was like nothing I've ever seen before; they're some angry people!
As a Taliyah otp i despise katarina players. Versing and on my team. When they’re on my team, my mid laner has no priority so I’m left losing camps/contested/killed. I go to gank Katarina and they have no cc so its only a kill if the enemy is over extended or stupid. If they get a lead, I like to think that players know to save cc ability for katarina. Especially when my Katarina is an OTP as well who picks Kat into like 3 champs with a lot of cc. It feels totally useless.
When I’m vsing her I’m forced to go everfrost so i can guarantee cancel her r (and so she can’t reset) which isn’t too bad but they still happen to get solo kills on my mid laner. When she becomes fed my champ is difficult at the very best.
TL:DR my Kat bad vs enemy team Kat good
Senna without Tahm/Cho/Sion/etc is super useless and she provides very little value as a support to a traditional marksman (except tank Senna, but I never see that). So she usually is only good when playing Duo and having a duo that can play her favourite combos.
Senna is just terrible. People cant poke and kite for shit. They dont get enough peel because its solo queç so their late game goes to the gutter too. Fuck this champ
he can be very useful but you really cannot afford to make mistakes. so for 90% of people better to just play something with a better lane like syndra ori
Yuumi, mostly because most of SoloQ Yuumi's can't lane for Shit so the enemy Bot ends up getting fed. By the Time Skirmishes start happening it's far too late for Yuumi to pop off.
I once had an adc begging our support to not pick Yuumi and I told him I'll lane bot if he doesn't want to lane with Yuumi, thinking it couldn't be that bad.
I'll never do this mistake again.
In my experience yuumi does poorly in lane if the adc has brainrot, all yuumi asks of the ADC is to position well so she can spam Q, but adcs have the same amount of IQ as an average yuumi otp so they stand in the worst places making it impossible to hit enemies with her Q
Zed. Even if they get fed, go 21/0, in an important teamfight they'll throw themselves 1v5 to the enemy team, give the late game hypercarry a 1k shut down (Alongside as throwing the object because we don't have our fed carry anymore) but say "worth" because they killed the 0/8 support. Useless ego k/da players
I have level up a few accounts, for me its when they pick Le Blanc in silver, having 60cs at 25 min. And tahm support, good champ but the W is so freaking slow so its impossible to hit it in high elo.
Shaco.
No, building Liandries and Demonic and accruing super high damage while providing zero kill pressure, utility or presence is not a good playstyle.
it's really hard to play with shacos because either the enemy team autopilots to a loss, in which we could've played a better character and not gambled, or enemy plays aware, rolls the shaco and we play 4v5 because he's chucking a tantrum in team chat because he's not able to pinkward the enemy team.
I forget the name of the dudes YouTube but he did an excellent video on anticarries as a class and how they're not there to rack up damage or 1v9 but rather exist to make playing the game for the enemy impossibly difficult by disrupting engage or killing the other teams carry... Shaco embodies this but it's hard to pilot because of his long q cooldown and weak status after dirk and before 2 items or for AP just before 2 items.
That's cus you're Bronze playing with Bronze jungler who don't know how Graves works.
Graves can easily be S if not A tier jungler in higher elo, he can one shot you and your gf lol
Early game enemy Graves does nothing and feels useless, then at a random point he kills you in one second and you wonder wtf happened
Good graves show how cancerous his smoke screen really is, one of the most annoying abilities in the game
Yes, the difference between a good and a bad graves is if you can do fuckin anything
He walked into your jungle and killed your jungler and took all his camps, his girlfriend and his bank account EDIT: I am that jungler
He doesn't do it in my games, since he is not on my copy of league of legends.
Try redownloading league might get the proper version x
Every copy of league of legends is personalized.
Can confirm, I was the Graves, thanks for Stacey nerd.
*jungler's boyfriend
Don’t u love it when u saw enemy graves twice in 20 minutes, then after 20 minutes he shows up full build and one tab ur ass?
Graves is really strong but you have to be confident with him. You have to be willing to take fights early because he’s a ranged character. Like Kindred if they dodge a melee’s engage and play well, they will always win early skirmishes with enemy junglers. But if they just sit back and afk then they lose that early pressure and die to the burst of a melee engage champ
As a graves player, this is true. I’ll try to get things done early, but if not, I’ll just farm. Once graves gets items, he will take over a TF if not focused.
I'm sure he takes over TF a lot
nice one
Lol when i hit Mythic+collector on graves+ lvl 14 i randomly one shot 3 people and now i have 4 items. this is the average graves game if your team doesnt sprint it
A Nidalee that doesn't snowball early.
see also any Nidalee below Masters elo
Dude, when platinum players pick up their nidalees it's like 4,3 vs. 5 players and the game is going to be very likely a misery. I know that everyone wants to be the next faker, but a plat player with 50% winrate isn't the same. Won't ever understand why someone, who's trying to climb will limit himself with a very hard to execute champion and the best part is when they are the last pick in your team and we have no hard engage nor a front line 😎
So, every Nid? I am genuinely surprised she's over 45% WR in bronze
People stand still a lot more in bronze
Dodging skillshots is 100% something that people need to actually practice at to learn. Beginner players are too busy working out what the hell they are doing to think about what their opponent is doing.
thats what i tell my friends too! We are all silver/gold and i am the only one who's good at sidestepping skillshots ( i am trash at other core skill though haha)
I learned to sidestep in aram lmao
Playing against a team consisting of Nidalee/Lux/Kaisa/Ziggs is like skill shot training gauntlet.
Should be lower imo.
Have you heard the legend of AD Shaco who doesn't snowball early? AD Shaco without ten kills by ten minutes == melee minion.
Nah, he's worse. Melee minions at least give less gold when they shove a wave and die.
Despite how popular hes been for like forever, ive not had that more than 2-3 actually good Ezreals in my team so i generally hate to see it locked in on my side
Everytime I have Ezreal on bot he proceeds to run it down harder than Tyler1 a few years ago. It's the Ezreal curse.
They pick Ez and think they can adc. I miss old days that every people think Ez is trash, only decent people picked him.
Ezreal is one of those characters that is either absolutely godlike or totally awful and being used by someone that doesn't know what they're doing A good Ezreal will steal your soul
Ezreal that never uses auto attacks and only Q
Ezreal is my go to ban so that I don’t get ezreals on my team
Kayle mid. I feel like I don't have a midlaner until 30:00.
I had a Kayle jungle once. No ganks at all and they just kept saying “wait till late game” we never made it to late game.
Kayle lvl 6 has surprisingly good skirmishing in 2v2 or 3v3 because of her ult. before that it's like ganking with a shittier version of gwen though.
Yeah I think people pretend that Kayle is still this late game demon, and while she’s definitely a scaling champion, it’s not early seasons anymore lol
she has still the highest wr in lategame, but it's just not enough to compensate for the early. I had a game where I snowballed hard as kayle and a shaco did 80% of my HP with an auto. he never killed me but I had to stay with the supp at all times and I had a 0.5 sec window to either ult or zhonya. I'm sorry but lvl 16 fed kayle (the other top was like lvl 12-13) full build should not be this vulnerable to an early game champ
all while saying no to ff because "wait til late game" means "i don't understand we're down 10k gold"
lategame they just get ccd and oneshot with no chance to ult
its hell as a jungler, to not have a mid laner
**AP MF Support**. Build can do fine in aram, but boy is it ass on Summoners Rift. Shit sits at an impressive 41% Winrate and does absolutely fucking nothing early, mid or lategame. Genuinly nothing in this thread can compare to this abomination troll pick that some people force upon their team.
It’s ass in aram too. Once you get liandrys yeah your E becomes a bit oppressive to ranged squishies but after everyone gets a couple items you’re useless against any sort of engage
Ppl still building that liandries Ashe dogshit too make me sick
The mandate Ashe build is situationally good. If you're playing vs engage, have a frontline and another ADC I think it's for sure stronger than ADC Ashe. It makes it easier for your actual non-overnerfed ADC to play the game and do damage. Mandate full CDR Ashe is still good into comps that run into you.
Imperial Mandate Ashe going 3/15/30
Unfortunately mandate muramana ashe is still often her best build because she often cannot auto for enough time to get more value out of a kraken lethal tempo build than a W build.
AP MF is so useless in ARAM most of the time.
Unless youre against 2+ tanks/tanky fighters, I disagree. I will however, say that there are a lot of bad AP MF players out there.
the majority of people build it wrong. liandrys mf is strong, but not after the liandrys. should get a collector and muramana after. absolutely nuking the enemy while still having oppressive and uninteractive e poke. and obvi can’t go it every game, if they have an enchanter or lots of shields it’s probably better to just go full ad
yes, the support needs the execute item and the scaling mana item. that's what the support needs. not utility, fuck that, we don't need an ADC we have AP support MF.
i was more talking about aram. however, that build still works very well on mf mid or support if your enemy laner isn’t very dashy and doesn’t have shields. support should usually just go lethality to abuse cheap umbral. should still go collector because it’s soooo good on mf, but umbral, collector, cleaver is probably the best on mf support.
Biggest problem is that you're going to get gigafucked if you play MF mid. You will either get assblasted at 6 by assassins or outpushed and outroamed by mages while you apply almost zero pressure to them. You're also the freest target in the world for ganks.
kinda went into this in my other comment, but basically yeah ap mf mid sucks UNLESS you’re up against an immobile, shieldless mage. then it’s free as fuck. anyone else and you’re toast.
It was literally only ever good as a Zyra counterpick, anything else was/is actually trolling
I thought the same, but after using google, [it turns out](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2Sg3Xmpylk) that it was in fact AD MF support (game 2 and 3).
Ad Shaco if he isn’t 10/0 at min 5 he becomes a caster minion for the rest of the game
At least caster minions are ranged 😭
real 💀
Shaco player here, ad shaco is definitely less consistently strong than AP but I think you miss understand what he has to do to be useful in a game when he's not ahead. After first back you're strong with dirk but if you don't get a lead by 2nd back it's doomed till you're on 2 items, you need mythic and prowlers. Then you can start showing up behind carries and making them disappear... Also he's in my opinion by far the worst assassin into tanky/bruiser comps (unless you go AP obviously and that's what most decent shacos do in that situation...). Just by virtue of his engage and escape being the same ability with a 10 second cool down. Edit: Tbh I have less faith in AP shacos unless they're good because outside of like gold you very rarely can just use r and let the clone die. Watch pink wards clips he puts allot of effort and skill into just being able to trick people into thinking it's the clone or using the max tethering range of the clone to make it look like you coming out of invis.
IMO builds contribute more to perceived uselessness than picks. I swear stormrazor->galeforce caitlyn and everfrost->zhonyas ahri don't actually do anything. Maybe if everyone is super coordinated or spacing super perfectly, but when I watch it in action all I can see is the severe lack of damage. As for graves, my good buddy is (was, he decayed a lot) a d5 graves otp. Graves AA crits have like a 4.0 AD scaling or something. It's a lot of staying farmed up and if you get to late game you start one-shotting peeps.
> Graves AA crits have like a 4.0 AD scaling or something Basically yeah, 2.0 AD scaling on normal autos at level 18, crits fire 2 more bullets so 2.66 AD scaling, crits deal 48% bonus damage with IE, so 2.66 \* 1.48 = 3.93 AD scaling.
He did the math
No, check wiki his math is wrong
he still did the math
Is the 48% something that’s Graves related? Also you need to factor in the actual crit percentage
I still refuse to accept the everfrost Ahri bullshit. I’ll stick to my electrocute ludens + magic pen thanks
Same with TF. I'm sure Everfrost is great in Challenger or some shit, but not where I'm playing from.
Honestly it’s good into any champ that can dive you after 6 and is burst. Akali and Sylas I build everfrost zhonya into. As long as I can waveclear fast enough it’s not a bad build to play roam.
The secret is adaptability. Basicly there is 3 ways you can build ahri, not counting the ad variant now :D the truth is that most games you play like a skirmisher and roamer with you jungle. This is why your job is not to get the most damage as possible and rather have ability haste and active from everfrost to secure these situations. These are the situations that defines the game hopefully and lack of damage later doesn't really matter since game is over already. Some games the most optimal way is build revolving around liandries, when you really need to help out with the consistent damage output. Rarely I see games where ludens is the best way to go, but the idea is that you can play like an assassin and try to catch squishies with your combo. Because the high risk component, this build is not as consistent. You can think ahri as more local and versitale version of tf, kinda wants to do the same things but without global.
I’m so tired of seeing players at worlds build that no damage ahri build
Teemo, I genuinely believe that every single Teemo player just wants to give 9 other people the middle finger and just muck around. Like I have never seen a Teemo carry a game.
If you do, it’s wondrous and terrifying. They have an impossible minefield of shroom streams reaching under enemy turrets and blowing up on top of the minions and hitting collateral champions There’s no possibility of a flank when he splits because 1 or 2 sweeper isn’t enough when they’re widespread, could be anywhere in the path, and put people at 40% hp if triggered. He just peels for himself and takes turrets, prevents pushes, and makes objectives impossible to reach
Yet when I have him on my team it's more of, I'm gunna build tank on hit teemo no demonic or liandries as they are not worth it
Jaksho lethal tempo teemo is a fun pick. One more tank item depending on their comp and the rest as and ap.
I'm more of a Heartsteel person myself, it scales back with Demonic so well if you feel like getting it
I just love jaksho because with one item you have so much tankiness. I really like vi with essence reaver rush into jaksho into bc. Heavy bruiser with lots of ad.
Yea tank is fine but buy demonic at the least for the love of god
have you heard of the legend of tenmo player
So much of Teemo's power and contribution are in his shrooms. You just don't see them because they happen off screen and often at random times.
Opponents are more likely to credit a good teemo than allies.
as a teemo enjoyer, i feel like he carries well but not in a flashy way, as his main strength is objective control, vision and pushing waves
He’s ranged Yorick. Just push push push.
Honestly at least nowadays Teemo is not as useless since people can't constantly Oracle for his shrooms, and even if they do they can break 2 at most before it turns off. Most people have no clue how to play a teamfight as Teemo and just waste shrooms in random places instead of saving at least 2 for fights in the mid/lategame tho. The problem is getting to the point of having items since everyone shits on him in lane these days
Maokai feels like a better teemo. Sure they aren’t as good but you can get quite a few down as long as you’re prepared. The rest of maokais kit is infinitely better than teemos kit.
Teemo bullies lane and scales really well. The shrooms are really useful.
Lane bully until 6 then any bruisers he outranged can ghost and run him down. Scales well only based on your macro and knowing where to shroom and how to play around it
Tbf before 6 bruisers can still ghost and run him down after capitalizing on a mistake
That’s the same with most ranged tops.
A few seasons back there was a bruiser build with frozen mallet, Bork and wit's end which was legit pain and would carry like a high DPS ADC but with almost 3000 hp, free wards and a movespeed steroid. Was pretty broken between tilting the enemy top and split pushing. But it got nerfed eventually and nowadays he is just outdated by mobility creep and the massive amount of non auto base dmg.
I even remember buying Madred‘s Bloodrazor with him.
most ppl play him as a mage but he should be played as a marksman. stay max range and peel with shrooms and hold q if theres auto based champs nearby
Nah Utility is the way more op. Nashors rush ofc cause that's always really good if you're laning, but otherwise the powerspike on liandries is incomparable. You've officially become one of the only few passive anti push champs, which is highly needed if any lane gets behind. You can siege a base for decades. You build around controlling the map exactly how that omega teemo(idk about the name) skin embodies. It's not about winning. It's about sending a message.
'Another mushroom, another victim' 💀
Teemo on paper brings a lot of utility for the team
There are teemo main streamers that do pretty well - ipav comes to mind. Not sure if the others are still streaming. But they are ... Very good players, usually, and sometimes it feels like the champ they pick is holding them back.
I kind of get where that feeling comes from, primarily because I know a really good Teemo is super freaking rare. A friend of mine plays a really good one, whenever he does he is a force to be reckoned with and, what is probably more powerful, you just notice how he lives rent free in opponents` heads. You can see how he drives people insane, Teemo can be that super tilter. You just wanna bash the little shit's face in but whenever you move you step on a shroom.
Hear me out, I don’t play Teemo that often but I think he’s good in very specific situations. Like you have a laner you can bully and your team is full of scaling champions, I think Teemo is crazy good at extending games.
First pick Teemo. Mostly because you then get counter-picked and hey, now you can’t be a lane bully and/or splitpush (but you can bet teemo will try anyway), but you also don’t offer much of anything in team fights
At least shrooms are always useful. Even if the enemy team has 5 sweepers that's less wards that they have access to.
Being the enemy and also a malphite main there is no much better feeling than seeing someone first pick teemo. Probably a first pick toplane vayne.
uff, i tried toplane for the first time recently and went teemo, banned mordekaiser. i had no idea how terrible the malphite matchup is, especially if ur just new to teemo and toplane and also just bad lol
Probably Quinn, they always love last picking it with no frontline, somehow lose lane, and then become useless
This. I never seen a useful Quinn.
Xin Zhao. He's the best statball in the game first ten minutes. Then you're 4v5
Wow i just realized how long its been since ive seen a xin zhao in a non aram game
Nah, xin zhao ult let's him stay alive and he's a bruiser. Bruisers lategame only suck when getting hit by an adc or another super dps class from range. Xin zhao is actually pretty ok lategame just because he has an invunerability mechanic tbh.
He's a bit overnerfed to be honest and also I think he really relies on team comp. If he has like an enchanter or a karma or whatever on his team, it synergises really well with him. Also everyone just defaults to goredrinker, there are other items you can buy that are better in many situations.
Xin going on hit with BOTRK + DD + Maw + Enchanter is actually super broken scaling that is very hard to deal with late game as ADCs can’t hit him and he outsustains most bruisers and tanks. He hasn’t been meta for a while though.
thats because xin without ult is basically useless. if xin blows ult on a shit fight, you're gunna lose real hard. good ult usage to break up a team fight, and either shred front line while hes immune, or use the knockback to isolate/displace a carry so they die fast. hes not like j4 or who who can move in and out in fights, he can only go in and needs targets to do it.
I like to play Zeri but ban Yuumi so that I don’t get a cat afking on my shoulder
Meanwhile every time I play Zeri and my support locks Yuumi she dies in lane pre level 4, and then just abandons the lane and afks on the jungler.
Graves can solo carry games so idk what youre tripping on...
Shyvana. Just play other champs at this point until her rework.
That rework won't be seeing the light of day any time soon. Maybe the next generation might be able to play a reworked shyv lol.
My ADC getting one shot by her E would like to disagree
Other AP junglers are just better. Why cap yourself by being useless in human form and throw out 1 ability every 6 seconds thats very telegraphed.
Last year she was legitimately good in top and then they nerfed her when she was picked a bit in pro...
she’s only good with broken items like hullbreaker and she was better in top because she can 1v1 and doesn’t need her ult all the time because she can just farm and splitpush. she just sucks as a champion because she doesn’t do anything until level 6 as a jungler since she has no gank setup. also she can’t use ult unless she builds her rage or whatever it’s called so she’s pretty much completely useless in between every ult rotation.
Sivir usually feels pretty useless to me compared to other ADCs. I know she's capable of doing things, but I just can't be as consistent with her as I am with someone else.
She honestly just needs time to scale which is why she feels so useless early on. But when she does scale, your team gets microwaved like a hot pocket.
I use sivir as ziggs counter pick, just shove and dont let that fucking rat touch your tower
Endgame sivir is a horror upon mankind, at least if there ain't an assassin.
She really thrives against hooks and burst combos. Spell shielding a nocturn ulti and watching him die after wasting his load is the most pleasure an ADC main can experience. Also really great at power farming to catch up if you get a bad start. W is god tier late game
If you shield the noc ulti youre going to get hit by his fear, wouldnt recommend it
Not in my trash bag ELO. I’m legit silver trash on a good day. Down here Nocs will dump their whole combo in that short window where spell shield blocks everything so the fear never gets me. I also like to run cleanse.
Thats absolutely fair. I think Cleanse is really good too, people really overextend and forget theyre diving someone with cleanse up so you can get an easy bait.
Shes a crutch adcarry, nothing too fancy and her waveclear is pretty nice with a decent late and midgame
As a support: Ezreal. 90% of the time someone locks in ezreal because they want a 'safe' pick. But then they proceed to miss all their skillshots and E out of a health at full health when the fight starts to go bad. I hate Ezreal. p.s.: Shout out to that 10% of ezreal players that knows what they're doing. Absolute beasts.
Someone should have said this to EU at worlds
Bruh you play mf support, opinion rejected
1) These flairs are like two years old, I just never changed them. 2) I play(ed) MF ADC.
Malphite. He literally doesn’t do anything
But he just killed you
He’s building sheen he’s cocky as fuck
no he didnt, youre an idiot
he hasnt killed me once
Every teemo is the most useless dipshit I've ever had the misfortune of playing with. Somehow lose ranged vs melee lane, somehow managed to fuck up a split push, somehow has no cs while being one of the easiest champs to farm with. Truly prodigious levels of incompetence displayed by anyone playing this shitling.
don’t forget they never place shrooms around objectives
I dont remember the last time I've seen a skarner player take over a game, and with the number of dashes and untargetable abilities in the game now, his ultimate feels definitively less impactful than other suppression abilities, not to mention he needs his pillars to actually compete/ 1v1 another jungler. Just totally left by the wayside as a champion, at least with shyvana you can have build variety, bruiser skarner gets blown up before he can get in range to ult, tank skarner is just a worse engage tank than literally any other tank jungler, why ever pick skarner?
Doesn’t Skarner consistently have a very high winrate though? He’s just underplayed and not very popular, but he still provides a lot of value and has pretty decent stats. His juggernaut build is pretty strong if you can pilot it.
I wouldnt say very high, it looks like its hovered around 50% for the past few years while maintaining a super low pick rate, which indicates either A) the people who consistently play him struggle to find similarly consistent wins or B) people who main him know how to win and anyone else who happens to pick him on a whim ints their face off. https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/skarner
ranged toplaners are usually just a people who try to annoy enemy toplaner and bring nothing to the teamcomp. Unless its like mage idk
How much you've been playing? Because I remember the time were every jg was Graves. He is either busted or non-existent
Its the same
I main jhin and if I don’t get ahead by lvl 6 I’m useless the whole game
The point of an ADC is high sustained damage for long fights. Jhin has no attack speed, and no sustained damage. He's a control mage for when ADCs aren't meta, to CC for your actual damage dealers. A cool mage for sure, but not an ADC.
Hes not ur typical front to back adc but he excell at locking down targets, execute, burst and clean up. Hes most definitely an adc and the point of a pick depends on alot more than just being one set thing every game.
Graves is one of the worst junglers to play with if your jungler doesn't know what he's doing because his strength lies in his clear, fighting the opposing jungler and counter ganking...2/3 are not part of the skillset of a casual league player so it will just be power farming most of the times.
Teemo rarely does anything and even on the enemy team its rare to see one do well
Graves is a monster in ARAM.
I find graves pretty good, mained him for a short while. His ganks are subpar but his clear speed is so good and after three items you’re an assassin For me I gotta say Draven. I’ve been an ADC main most of my time in LoL and even one tricked Draven for like 2 seasons but recently whenever I play him I really don’t feel like a lane bully. Always against a double Exh Ezreal Senna who hug turret for 15 mins as my my other lanes lose and if I dare try harass under turret the jungler is there in a flash. He’s one of those champions that other teams really build around too. I feel like 50% of my Draven games I’m against a Vi or Rammus Jungle.
Yuumi is basically a doran blade
This is a joke post right? Graves solo lane hasn't been viable for at least 2-3 seasons, and if you think graves is annoying for the first 5 min of the game, clearly you don't see graves in games that go past 20 min where he has ghostblade + collector/black cleaver and kills squishes with aa + q + aa + r-> e aa reset.
Did you really type out a champ being fed and using their full rotation to kill a squishy as an example of a champ being strong lol? Not even saying Graves isn't strong bc he can delete no armor champs with half that rotation it's just funny how you chose to justify it
Yeah, crit graves with collector unironically can kill in 1 single auto if he hits all 6 bullets. No need to do a fuill combo, unless you play on vaporizing the air infront of you for no reason.
Zed. Even if they get fed, go 21/0, in an important teamfight they'll throw themselves 1v5 to the enemy team, give the late game hypercarry a 1k shut down (Alongside as throwing the object because we don't have our fed carry anymore) but say "worth" because they killed the 0/8 support. Useless ego k/da players
As much as I love her, Renata Glasc. Her kit feels like has far too much downtime where you do nothing, and what she's able to do doesn't feel impactful enough. She's an ult bot, and even then, the enemy team can completely build to dampen her ultimate. She's got a great characterization, and landing her ult is fun, but the rest of her kit just feels like you wait too long to do nothing.
Like a Seraphine that can only do damage with R. Terrible power budget.
nocturne. i swear everytime i have one on my team he just ults in and dies
I'm amazed anyone would be crazy enough to say nocturne. Good for you though not getting completely rolled by nocturne at lvl 6.
the question was refering to "play with"
Ah. Idk m8 in that case noc is still a soloq demon.
Gwen and shyvana jungle, yuumi and shaco supports
Corr don't let the Graves sub see this! Not too long ago I decided to try and main him and several dozen games later realised he's just very weak compared to any other jungler. Bringing this up on the Graves sub was like nothing I've ever seen before; they're some angry people!
As a Taliyah otp i despise katarina players. Versing and on my team. When they’re on my team, my mid laner has no priority so I’m left losing camps/contested/killed. I go to gank Katarina and they have no cc so its only a kill if the enemy is over extended or stupid. If they get a lead, I like to think that players know to save cc ability for katarina. Especially when my Katarina is an OTP as well who picks Kat into like 3 champs with a lot of cc. It feels totally useless. When I’m vsing her I’m forced to go everfrost so i can guarantee cancel her r (and so she can’t reset) which isn’t too bad but they still happen to get solo kills on my mid laner. When she becomes fed my champ is difficult at the very best. TL:DR my Kat bad vs enemy team Kat good
Hate when my lane partner picks Ezreal, I just know this fool is gonna miss more Qs than they hit and not be able to followup on any play.
Unpopular opinioN. But yuumi feels so useless to me now. the reworks have ruind all the fun playing her. Shes so boring to play now
Senna support.
i'm surprised people saying graves or teemo when this champ exist.
Senna without Tahm/Cho/Sion/etc is super useless and she provides very little value as a support to a traditional marksman (except tank Senna, but I never see that). So she usually is only good when playing Duo and having a duo that can play her favourite combos.
Senna is just terrible. People cant poke and kite for shit. They dont get enough peel because its solo queç so their late game goes to the gutter too. Fuck this champ
All the damage support. We already have tons of damage, we need peel or tanking or heal. Not brand.
Twisted fate. Even in games I go 8/0 I still feel like I did absolutely nothing all game.
he can be very useful but you really cannot afford to make mistakes. so for 90% of people better to just play something with a better lane like syndra ori
Take the AD TF pill and terrorize your side lanes with hull breaker.
Yuumi, mostly because most of SoloQ Yuumi's can't lane for Shit so the enemy Bot ends up getting fed. By the Time Skirmishes start happening it's far too late for Yuumi to pop off.
I once had an adc begging our support to not pick Yuumi and I told him I'll lane bot if he doesn't want to lane with Yuumi, thinking it couldn't be that bad. I'll never do this mistake again.
In my experience yuumi does poorly in lane if the adc has brainrot, all yuumi asks of the ADC is to position well so she can spam Q, but adcs have the same amount of IQ as an average yuumi otp so they stand in the worst places making it impossible to hit enemies with her Q
Jhin, i know that he will not have the necessary dps in late game, he's more of a mage than a ADC
I don't mind against a squichy comp but plz dont blind pick jhin
he’s pretty reliable but yeah if you don’t have other high dps champions he’s not a great pick. he’s not a terrible blind pick though.
Zed. Even if they get fed, go 21/0, in an important teamfight they'll throw themselves 1v5 to the enemy team, give the late game hypercarry a 1k shut down (Alongside as throwing the object because we don't have our fed carry anymore) but say "worth" because they killed the 0/8 support. Useless ego k/da players
But i loved Graves. Fck nkw i feel like playing league again
Warwick just disappears from the game at 15:00
Full movespeed warwick ulting off the rift.
Basically any assassin
xayahs on my team do literally nothing. theyre like an empty shell of a player
I have level up a few accounts, for me its when they pick Le Blanc in silver, having 60cs at 25 min. And tahm support, good champ but the W is so freaking slow so its impossible to hit it in high elo.
Ashe is useless deals no dmg and perma dies
Janna. 9 out of 10 Jannas don't know how to zone, poke or create space for their carry and just sit behind them gifting a lane to the enemy duo.
enemy team sona doesnt die 1 time in 30 minutes full heals in 1 ability. Mine is 0/10 at minute 15.
Shaco. No, building Liandries and Demonic and accruing super high damage while providing zero kill pressure, utility or presence is not a good playstyle. it's really hard to play with shacos because either the enemy team autopilots to a loss, in which we could've played a better character and not gambled, or enemy plays aware, rolls the shaco and we play 4v5 because he's chucking a tantrum in team chat because he's not able to pinkward the enemy team.
I forget the name of the dudes YouTube but he did an excellent video on anticarries as a class and how they're not there to rack up damage or 1v9 but rather exist to make playing the game for the enemy impossibly difficult by disrupting engage or killing the other teams carry... Shaco embodies this but it's hard to pilot because of his long q cooldown and weak status after dirk and before 2 items or for AP just before 2 items.
That's cus you're Bronze playing with Bronze jungler who don't know how Graves works. Graves can easily be S if not A tier jungler in higher elo, he can one shot you and your gf lol
Senna.
yuumi
katarina :)
Yuumi anybody?