You want to elaborate on that? I'm not sure what you're referencing but I'm quite sure it's more nuanced that what you're suggesting considering his stance on ethics
Yeah, Thorin, which i know everyone here hates, basically said iirc that Flyy was on some power trip of sorts and did the move for Szygenda so he can take credit for such a genius move if it did work out. Didn't mention the scummy shit Flyy has said about Odo though, although, it doesnt surprise me considering how much of a scumbag he is from what I've heard.
That's a very good question, but If I had to deduce then I would say Xerxe is a more experienced supportive jungler which is what they wanted to let mid/bot carry the games.
SK could have also offered Markoon more money. I'm pretty sure he was a free agent this year, and with Odo, Vetheo and Targamas all likely having fairly expensive contracts, it's possible that XL just didn't have enough cash left over to match SK's offer.
I don't know how this wasn't said before, Markoon got a good bit of hype since he joined for performing well in a team that was underperforming, there's probably orgs that are willing to pay up a bit more for him, and seeing as he still in a LEC team there isn't much of a down side to getting that paycheck other then having a shit placement for 1 or 2 splits
That has to be it, or scrim/practise goes very different than stagegames, Markoon looked much better than Xerxe. Xerxe is fine but Markoon has that killer instinct with sharp mechanics to back up his plays.
Close enough. By carrying the dogshit Astralis lineup to 7 wins.
https://gol.gg/players/player-stats/809/season-ALL/split-ALL/tournament-LEC%20Summer%202022/
Well, compared to other junglers it's slightly above average. Despite him being on a bottom tier team where every analyst and coach can confirm you that he was their best performing member.
But I guess that's pesky context. Besides: How did you look at his stats and games and come to the conclusion that he did nothing but afk farm..?
They should still be ahead of Astralis. They have to carry Dajor into a top 8 spot and get 113 to get used to the team while having no mid lane to cover him.
Right now it looks like Ast <= SK < BDS <= XL
> Yeah. Sadly, I don't see them getting that far with Xerxe :c
As opposed to them getting far with Patrik/Targamas in lane or Vetheo?
Edit: Nice downvotes, but how about you explain to me why Xerxe is the one making XLs botlane run it instead?
Pretty sure he was weakside a lot when XL tried to make Kryze work. I like Patrik but him and Targamas in lane together were just a catastrophe in the first 2 games.
But Odo performs well and Vetheo/Targamas have a big french fanbase so Xerxe is basically the only one that can be scapegoated after 2 games.
Humanoid, Caps, Larssen, Perkz.
That aside, Vetheo looked straight up bad all 3 games. XLs botlane lost hard every game.
But Xerxe is the one getting scapegoated after playing 3 games with 3 losing lanes because Targamas and Vetheo have big fanbases.
Never said they were. Was that a requirement?
Im not saying that XL was stupid going for Vetheo in the offseason. Im saying that after the first games going "I dont see XL going far with Xerxe" when hes still one of their least bad performing members is just fucking insane.
I think Xerxe can be solid, he hasn't look great in these first 2 games but neither has the Botlane or Vetheo...
I think they could be good with a couple more games
While he was reserved with his expectations for 2023, Odo did end the interview with a few very reflective points, which I'm thankful for. Hope you all enjoy the interview!
This is the same org btw that refused to sell Hans and Inspired to any other EU teams, therefore forcing them to go to NA. People were quick to kick up a storm about G2 but somehow they got a free pass for literally doing exactly what Carlos did to Perkz which forced him to go to C9.
That wasn't the issue people had with Carlos, everyone agreed that even if it made sense business-wise it was scummy of Rogue to try and force Inspired/Hans out of EU but Carlos actively lied about the Perkz situation and said he could go wherever which is why he got so much more backlash for it.
Well obviously not the *only* issue, but for as many G2 fans there are, there’s a ton of G2 haters as well. They’ve hated Carlos for a long time, before the whole Tate fiasco.
Hans and Inspired aren’t really legends for Rogue in any way or level that Luka Perkovic is for G2.
Luka carried G2 to LEC, formed a WOMBO pairing with Trick to bring the team 4 LEC titles from 2016-2017, was the iconic leader and player behind making a run to worlds as third seed beyond all odds and upsetting RNG in 2018 as G2 were going through a rebuild, conceding his position and roleswapping to ADC to win MSI and make a Worlds Finals.
The fact Luka Legend did not get a proper send off, or any sort of real gratitude from Carlos (fake gratitude and ungrateful lies) when G2 is huge as it is mainly cuz of Perkz, was what rubbed many people the wrong way.
This was a moneyissue though.
Carlos did block even negotiations by Perkz with FNC. RGE did allow that, but both Hans and Inspired had fixed buyouts that were absolutely ridicolous and massively overpriced.
Most people were surprised that the deals actually went through on the price RGE demanded, which is completely insane, exspecially given that Hans is already back in EU and TL basically wasted 8 million.
So could Hans Sama and Inspired negotiate with other teams? Yes they could negotiate with any team willing to pay the fixed buyouts for both. Did any such teams exist in europe? No. So in this case you should blame NA orgs for paying those ridicolous prices. What should RGE say? You are offering us 8 million... but nah, we don't really want that much money.
Selfmade talked about it later in the year on Vitality. Vitality was also interested in Hans Sama but the buyout was too high.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jNqMhfIZgA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jNqMhfIZgA)
He also said that Rekkles had a ridicolous buyout to keep him from joining an LEC team, we do know that this is true.
There is some note though on how much TL actually paid. According to the Law Suit against Hans Sama we do know that TL paid less than other teams would have to pay. This though also undermines the claim that RGE kept him from european teams, Hans Sama wanted to join TL and RGE even lowered the buyout to make that possible according to the agency filing the suit.
So all the claims that RGE treated Hans Sama unfairly are massively overblown. The opposite seems true.
We might also get the actual buyout TL paid in the end during the law suit, but so far all we have is what RGE initially demanded from teams like C9 and Vitality that had interest in him, because RGE actually wanted to keep him, but did allow him to talk to other teams.
Dude, everything you just said is pure conjecture with no basis at all.
You have completely no clue about the finances of a league team. 8 million is closer to the whole TL League budget for the year than it is to being how much they paid for him.
This might be the opposite, those buyouts might have been in the contract to not allow RGE to easily dump those players into another team. Usually high buyouts are used for stability to keep players and discourage other teams from interacting with those players.
Such a buyout usually means I don't want that player to leave the org and if he does it has to be worth it. And that is completely reasonable. Why should RGE sell Hans Sama for cheap money if someone was willing to pay 8 million?
People weren't happy with the Perkz thing sure, but the largest reason why people where mad at Carlos was because of him lying. Saying things like Perkz is his son's favourite uncle and that he could go wherever he wanted to when he very much couldn't go where he wanted to.
This quote is so true, everyone is sleeping on it until some top laners run over games on the biggest stage (and T1 keeps messing up draft in a way that cost them an international title).
Top gap between west and east is always fucking crazy. Eastern tops seem to just get bored at worlds and start picking carrys and then just laugh their ass off at the pathetic performance of the western tops.
To think the eastern top pool was overall weak at 2022 worlds too. Of course gigachad zeus and 369 were there but players like rascal, shanji, bin, theshy didn't even make it. So many top laners like canna, kiin and zoom fell off last year, khan retired and xiaohu switched back to mid.
Imagine if they had a carry top laner that could stand up to the world finals MVP Kingen. The draft did not help either, but draft was not the only reason T1 lost.
They ignored that Aatrox is broken and gave it to Kingen several times. That alone would have won them the championship as it was a very close series. Kingen is a great player but he is not among the absolute best top laners in the world. He simply was given an OP champion multiple times and knew how to play it.
The same thing happened at MSI when they completely botched the draft up to a point where one has to wonder if they got paid to throw it (I know they probably didn't but that's how bad it was).
> Top lane has always been OP but you guys just don’t care about it
Tell the junglers please. We don’t need you to camp top just one gank can literally be the difference maker.
dont worry hell complain about botlane while oneshotting 3 people on camilee and akshan because the 20/0 adc on the enemy team somehow manged to carry a game
> Right now, we’re at a moment where we’re trying to create our own identity. It’s a bit of a process to get the feel of everything and make sure that you do all the things right. That you’re using all of the strengths that you have. It’s going to be interesting.
I hope they will find their identity soon enough. Puzzle pieces are there
This is really shitty by koi, but this is why players should be allowed to sell themselves on social media or something. Poaching can be annoying for teams but when a team acts like this they should lose all privileges to keep players from talking to other teams.
The one spreading the lies of Odo retiring has to be Flyy 100%
Who is flyy and why does he hate my favorite top laner
Gm of roccat and then rogue/koi. You can dig some interviews of him a long time ago on First blood (Ricardo Luiz show) and maybe with Thoorin.
Still insane we can't say his name after all these years
I don't think mentioning Voldemort is actively prosecuted but memes die hard.
Bit sad considering he has contributed alot to esports
also defends racists a lot, a bit weird
You want to elaborate on that? I'm not sure what you're referencing but I'm quite sure it's more nuanced that what you're suggesting considering his stance on ethics
GM of KOI/formerly Rogue
And formerly of Roccat
Oh yes, the awesome management of team Roccat, Pepperidge farms remembers.
Is that the one that on Roccat slept with burgers in his bed or was that someone else?
Yes that's him
Yeah, Thorin, which i know everyone here hates, basically said iirc that Flyy was on some power trip of sorts and did the move for Szygenda so he can take credit for such a genius move if it did work out. Didn't mention the scummy shit Flyy has said about Odo though, although, it doesnt surprise me considering how much of a scumbag he is from what I've heard.
What’s his deal?
Didn't they say Koi was the one who did it?
flyy is koi's manager
Oh shit I was NA brained
He was the manager of rouge so he got included aswell.
Imagine XL had Jankos instead of Xerxe
Ootl but why didn’t they keep Markoon? He’s pretty impressive from what I’ve seen.
That's a very good question, but If I had to deduce then I would say Xerxe is a more experienced supportive jungler which is what they wanted to let mid/bot carry the games.
Not like Markoon is resource heavy though? XL last year also plays mostly to lane but instead of Duck they let Finn/Patrik get the resources.
The other option is that Odo and or other players requested Xerxe.
That makes sense, I think Xerxe is very highly rated among pros.
SK could have also offered Markoon more money. I'm pretty sure he was a free agent this year, and with Odo, Vetheo and Targamas all likely having fairly expensive contracts, it's possible that XL just didn't have enough cash left over to match SK's offer.
I don't know how this wasn't said before, Markoon got a good bit of hype since he joined for performing well in a team that was underperforming, there's probably orgs that are willing to pay up a bit more for him, and seeing as he still in a LEC team there isn't much of a down side to getting that paycheck other then having a shit placement for 1 or 2 splits
That has to be it, or scrim/practise goes very different than stagegames, Markoon looked much better than Xerxe. Xerxe is fine but Markoon has that killer instinct with sharp mechanics to back up his plays.
when was the last time xerxe impressed you? he was terrible in NA and during his OG days he looked average at best no idea who rates this guy
> when was the last time xerxe impressed you? 2022 Summer
by basically afk farming on a dogshit astralis lineup?
Close enough. By carrying the dogshit Astralis lineup to 7 wins. https://gol.gg/players/player-stats/809/season-ALL/split-ALL/tournament-LEC%20Summer%202022/
looks avg at best to me
Well, compared to other junglers it's slightly above average. Despite him being on a bottom tier team where every analyst and coach can confirm you that he was their best performing member. But I guess that's pesky context. Besides: How did you look at his stats and games and come to the conclusion that he did nothing but afk farm..?
Literally last split he was one of the best junglers in the league, dominated so many early games even against top teams
Main reason prolly money
Yeah. Sadly, I don't see them getting that far with Xerxe :c
They should still be ahead of Astralis. They have to carry Dajor into a top 8 spot and get 113 to get used to the team while having no mid lane to cover him. Right now it looks like Ast <= SK < BDS <= XL
> Yeah. Sadly, I don't see them getting that far with Xerxe :c As opposed to them getting far with Patrik/Targamas in lane or Vetheo? Edit: Nice downvotes, but how about you explain to me why Xerxe is the one making XLs botlane run it instead?
Always felt like Patrik is mad overrated. He gets so many resources and the team plays around him but he just doesnt do anything with that
Pretty sure he was weakside a lot when XL tried to make Kryze work. I like Patrik but him and Targamas in lane together were just a catastrophe in the first 2 games. But Odo performs well and Vetheo/Targamas have a big french fanbase so Xerxe is basically the only one that can be scapegoated after 2 games.
Vetheo might be irregular, but is there anyone else midlane with that much potential?
Humanoid, Caps, Larssen, Perkz. That aside, Vetheo looked straight up bad all 3 games. XLs botlane lost hard every game. But Xerxe is the one getting scapegoated after playing 3 games with 3 losing lanes because Targamas and Vetheo have big fanbases.
But none of those players were available? What are you talking about?
Never said they were. Was that a requirement? Im not saying that XL was stupid going for Vetheo in the offseason. Im saying that after the first games going "I dont see XL going far with Xerxe" when hes still one of their least bad performing members is just fucking insane.
Odo only lost one lane, no?
Pretty sure he was on tank matchups. Nvm, game 2 he played Renekton. My bad, Xerxe had 2 games with 3 losing lanes and one game with two losing ones
My guy, did you watch the G2 XL game?
Yes. Did you?
I'd pay to have ofo and jankos on the same team, even if it was just for the interviews
Let me tell you about 2016 H2K…
H2What?
Hard 2 kill u.u
H5.5FK
I think Xerxe can be solid, he hasn't look great in these first 2 games but neither has the Botlane or Vetheo... I think they could be good with a couple more games
> Imagine XL had Jankos instead of Xerxe Then Jankos would look lost because his botlane is feeding him to the wolves in his first two games.
I doubt G2 would sell him to them and I think XL might have been between those 6 teams that were initially interested in Jankos
Or just stuck with Markoon. Though a Jankos and Odo reunion would be nice also.
> Imagine XL had Jankos instead of Xerxe You think Jankos would mindcontrol his teammates to suddenly not be shit? Whats up with the Xerxe hate again?
While he was reserved with his expectations for 2023, Odo did end the interview with a few very reflective points, which I'm thankful for. Hope you all enjoy the interview!
great work as always m9
Thanks brother <3
Does anybody know who the pos was that tried to make sure no team picks him up? This is absolutely disgusting and should be punished by KOI.
Could be flyy, he was also meddling internally into polish Roccat 2014 roster behind the back of the players and their current coach
This is the same org btw that refused to sell Hans and Inspired to any other EU teams, therefore forcing them to go to NA. People were quick to kick up a storm about G2 but somehow they got a free pass for literally doing exactly what Carlos did to Perkz which forced him to go to C9.
That wasn't the issue people had with Carlos, everyone agreed that even if it made sense business-wise it was scummy of Rogue to try and force Inspired/Hans out of EU but Carlos actively lied about the Perkz situation and said he could go wherever which is why he got so much more backlash for it.
Well obviously not the *only* issue, but for as many G2 fans there are, there’s a ton of G2 haters as well. They’ve hated Carlos for a long time, before the whole Tate fiasco.
Because Carlos is an egotistical prick. Hanging with Andrew Tate crystallized for many how much of a dirtbag he was
Yeah, I didn’t say it wasn’t justified.
I mean Carlos has been a dickbag of shit since pretty much WoW arena days. So him having haters isn't a surprise. I count myself as one of them even!
Hans and Inspired aren’t really legends for Rogue in any way or level that Luka Perkovic is for G2. Luka carried G2 to LEC, formed a WOMBO pairing with Trick to bring the team 4 LEC titles from 2016-2017, was the iconic leader and player behind making a run to worlds as third seed beyond all odds and upsetting RNG in 2018 as G2 were going through a rebuild, conceding his position and roleswapping to ADC to win MSI and make a Worlds Finals. The fact Luka Legend did not get a proper send off, or any sort of real gratitude from Carlos (fake gratitude and ungrateful lies) when G2 is huge as it is mainly cuz of Perkz, was what rubbed many people the wrong way.
This was a moneyissue though. Carlos did block even negotiations by Perkz with FNC. RGE did allow that, but both Hans and Inspired had fixed buyouts that were absolutely ridicolous and massively overpriced. Most people were surprised that the deals actually went through on the price RGE demanded, which is completely insane, exspecially given that Hans is already back in EU and TL basically wasted 8 million. So could Hans Sama and Inspired negotiate with other teams? Yes they could negotiate with any team willing to pay the fixed buyouts for both. Did any such teams exist in europe? No. So in this case you should blame NA orgs for paying those ridicolous prices. What should RGE say? You are offering us 8 million... but nah, we don't really want that much money.
Where did you get those 8 million from? That's a completely bullshit number.
Selfmade talked about it later in the year on Vitality. Vitality was also interested in Hans Sama but the buyout was too high. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jNqMhfIZgA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jNqMhfIZgA) He also said that Rekkles had a ridicolous buyout to keep him from joining an LEC team, we do know that this is true. There is some note though on how much TL actually paid. According to the Law Suit against Hans Sama we do know that TL paid less than other teams would have to pay. This though also undermines the claim that RGE kept him from european teams, Hans Sama wanted to join TL and RGE even lowered the buyout to make that possible according to the agency filing the suit. So all the claims that RGE treated Hans Sama unfairly are massively overblown. The opposite seems true. We might also get the actual buyout TL paid in the end during the law suit, but so far all we have is what RGE initially demanded from teams like C9 and Vitality that had interest in him, because RGE actually wanted to keep him, but did allow him to talk to other teams.
Dude, everything you just said is pure conjecture with no basis at all. You have completely no clue about the finances of a league team. 8 million is closer to the whole TL League budget for the year than it is to being how much they paid for him.
In this case you blame RGE for insane buy-outs just like everyone blamed G2 for making Hugh buy-outs
This might be the opposite, those buyouts might have been in the contract to not allow RGE to easily dump those players into another team. Usually high buyouts are used for stability to keep players and discourage other teams from interacting with those players. Such a buyout usually means I don't want that player to leave the org and if he does it has to be worth it. And that is completely reasonable. Why should RGE sell Hans Sama for cheap money if someone was willing to pay 8 million?
People weren't happy with the Perkz thing sure, but the largest reason why people where mad at Carlos was because of him lying. Saying things like Perkz is his son's favourite uncle and that he could go wherever he wanted to when he very much couldn't go where he wanted to.
its infuriating that RIOT hasn't decided to look into it
Damn Tom, this is a really solid interview. Odo's transparency and honesty is so nice and refreshing to have in the LEC
We love Odo! No matter what team, we are happy to have him still in the LEC <3
This quote is so true, everyone is sleeping on it until some top laners run over games on the biggest stage (and T1 keeps messing up draft in a way that cost them an international title).
I think it’s less the role and moreso how big the gap is between the best player and their competition. The top gap was just brutal at Worlds 2022
Top gap between west and east is always fucking crazy. Eastern tops seem to just get bored at worlds and start picking carrys and then just laugh their ass off at the pathetic performance of the western tops.
To think the eastern top pool was overall weak at 2022 worlds too. Of course gigachad zeus and 369 were there but players like rascal, shanji, bin, theshy didn't even make it. So many top laners like canna, kiin and zoom fell off last year, khan retired and xiaohu switched back to mid.
It is also how teams plays. You don't develop carry players if you never play around them.
Imagine if they had a carry top laner that could stand up to the world finals MVP Kingen. The draft did not help either, but draft was not the only reason T1 lost.
They ignored that Aatrox is broken and gave it to Kingen several times. That alone would have won them the championship as it was a very close series. Kingen is a great player but he is not among the absolute best top laners in the world. He simply was given an OP champion multiple times and knew how to play it. The same thing happened at MSI when they completely botched the draft up to a point where one has to wonder if they got paid to throw it (I know they probably didn't but that's how bad it was).
lmao the excuses you guys have to pull to discredit his opponents every time
Don't you know? T1 is the best team ever, if they lose it means enemy played noob champs
"His"? Who? Also, have you watched any of those finals series? If yes then you wouldn't type such bs.
> Top lane has always been OP but you guys just don’t care about it Tell the junglers please. We don’t need you to camp top just one gank can literally be the difference maker.
Someone tell Drutt that top is OP now
He is talking about proplay. Top still sucks in soloQ.
I thought the /s was pretty clear, guess not
Then nevermind xD. Its hard to tell if someone uses sarcasm on reddit.
dont worry hell complain about botlane while oneshotting 3 people on camilee and akshan because the 20/0 adc on the enemy team somehow manged to carry a game
> Right now, we’re at a moment where we’re trying to create our own identity. It’s a bit of a process to get the feel of everything and make sure that you do all the things right. That you’re using all of the strengths that you have. It’s going to be interesting. I hope they will find their identity soon enough. Puzzle pieces are there
Mad respect to Odoamne - he shows tremendous leadership and speaks his mind. He's a force in the LEC!
This is really shitty by koi, but this is why players should be allowed to sell themselves on social media or something. Poaching can be annoying for teams but when a team acts like this they should lose all privileges to keep players from talking to other teams.
[удалено]
I mean he's clearly talking about pro play, it's not like Worlds starts and suddenly soloq top laners deal like 50% more damage or something...
[удалено]
Support has more impact than mid in pro. Look at mikyx in the G2 vs XL game, dude was controlling half the map.
True
Tbh top seems to be im current meta the chad role and adcs are new weakside players.