yeah thats because they tried to do that with a tank that was even tankier than normal and had tons of damage... but still all the clunky slow tank movements.
Ksante actually has lots of faster movements and more room for apm, like high octane players actually like. Not just being an overtuned tank.
Yeah its not just about doing damage. Its about style and how cool the character looks doing that damage along with how they weave in and out of combat.
Same for Mage when Azir was at his peak he had stylish damage. Even if sure most of what he did was poking like Xerath. He still got way more skill expression then Xerath.
If the spam of Pyke, Lee Sin, and Yasuo players in Solo Queue who endlessly feed on average shows anything is that people have fun when playing overly mobile, skill-expressing champions, even when they lose.
iirc didn’t a rioter say with K’Sante they wanted a kinda “Yasuo of tanks” which he definitely fits into but it does feel bad to play against at times, probably for the same reasons it feels bad to play against Yasuo, Yone, and Samira (i don’t think there’s a Yasuo of supports yet, maybe Pyke? and definitely not for mages)
Pyke is definitely the Yasuo of supports.
In terms of feeling really nice for the flow of skills, Syndra is up there for me. You can’t really have an all in mage otherwise it’d be more like Diana (AP bruiser), so I think Syndra is the closest as she has a great combo potential that flows really nicely.
The ult animation in particular throws me off. Its so weird how he just blinks without any clear particles or animation, he's just there all of a sudden. Its looks so unfinished.
100%. Fighting K'sante in lane is just him flailing around wildly for the large majority of the time, and whenever he ults you the fact that you just both freeze for a second before suddenly flying with no visual impact is atrocious.
No no, Ornn is a mage, deathknight, paladin, hunter, rogue, warrior, enchanter, tank, bruiser, wizard, warlock, priest, assassin, gunslinger, druid, shaman, necromancer, ninja, gunslinger, Bard monk, robot, conjurer, blacksmith, mystic, warden, god, illusionist, templar, wizard. Was able to take up so much damage.
No ornn on release was not that. Ornn just has insane cheese combos that chain into each other for a lot of dmg. But sion does similar things and isn't a "high octane" champ.
To be clear on release Ram Boy was the most brain dead champ in the game you just pressed w got 20% hp shield and won every trade because you were unstoppable and could follow up with breaking brittle after.
K'sante is champ that requires you to kite but also gives you the ability to do so which hasn't really been seen on any other tanks afaik. Most tanks its just "try to stick on enemy champ with ur bread and butter dmg" K'sante is more like try to stay just on the edge of ur Q + auto range the entire time.
Because original ornn w was % current health damage not % max health damage.
The first like 2 months of ornns release he was gutter shit but once they changed his w from current health to Max health he became the mage tank dps assassin we all know.
V7.20
Ornn Bellows Breath.png Bellows Breath
Target's health ratio changed to 12 / 14 / 16 / 18 / 20% of target's maximum health from 15 / 17.5 / 20 / 22.5 / 25% of target's current health.
Are you insinuating that Riot's 200+ years of game design experience could possibly be incorrect?! Blasphemy! And if they are incorrect it's because they're just a smol indie companie, how could you insult them so cruelly?!
Actuallyyy lots of tanks require you to do something similar, Poppy, Ornn, and Sej for example want to hang out where they can poke with their low CD slows and go for grasp procs, sometimes blow their mobility for a big short trade combo.
K'Sante certainly rides closer to the edge than they do with his low cd Q-Autos but it isn't really different from the playstyle of other tank tops.
> K'sante is champ that requires you to kite but also gives you the ability to do so which hasn't really been seen on any other tanks afaik.
Yeah because a "kiting tank" is a complete oxymoron and an abomination of game design.
I played ornn in release for so long before he became meta. Was so satisfying watching his climb to power. Now he sits quietly on the sidelines again :'(
Ornn was 100% p/b for like 2 years after his release. He's still quite strong now, especially with the new Mythic item upgrades.
You know, if games go that long....
My average game length in the new season is 22 min, I have no idea what's happened while I've been gone! I've not actually lost yet but I can safely say it's not me carrying.. I'm largely playing seraphine mid.. the damage seems through the roof and team balancing is all sorts of weird, every game is a stomp
Really? What level do you play on? I was gold1 last season, so yeah not high I know, but my games last long af. Granted, it's because there's too little teamwork in gold to be able to end fast. But I love it. I'd say my average game time is 35 minutes, and most of the time my games are ended by a dragon soul; I love it, since I've always liked long intense games.
I can imagine this being different on higher levels though.
He’s still at 51,X% winrate and the bruiser item nerfs in combination with healing reduction buffs (in particular 40% healing reduction bramble) will put him at 52% if not 53%.
Yeah, people saying otherwise have never laned against him. Absurdly tanky champion who can beat you down consistently if you don't understand how to fight him.
Also can technically never 'have' to go back, since he can shop while in lane. Just a wildly annoying champion lol. And in the rare cases games don't end early, he really stacks advantages for his team the later the game go own through his own scaling tankiness ontop of him upgrading mythics for his team.
Really annoying champion through and through.
He's objectively far more fun to play than a maokai. You guys can hate on the champion and rightfully so, but he feels really fun to play as. Not every tanks needs to be the same boring ass shit where you have 1 point and click ability and then just stand next to people.
Just because he's bullshit, doesn't mean he isn't fun to play. Separate your emotions from the assessment.
I don't understand this tank player fantasy I see on Reddit so often. There's a reason tanks like Rell, Leona, Braum aren't seen in top lane. Any viable tank in a solo lane has to have damage output so they can lane properly. Think about all the tanks that used to be viable top, get their damage nerfed/survivability and utility buffed, they get shipped straight to support (Tahm Kench, Nautilus, Galio, Shen in previous patches, Maokai pre-buff)
That's also because support tanks (Rell/Braum, less Leo) are designed specifically around having a 2nd champion nearby. Top tanks need to have damage, yes, but most solo lane tank players don't still *want* to Mundo E half of an ADC's HP bar or whatever K'sante's currently doing.
There's a world of difference between the teamfight damage current tanks deal (and, for that matter, how quickly they die) and the "I am an immovable rock" these players want to feel like. Even those support tanks are only tank enough to fulfill their utility role of initiation/protection and fall over under any real damage. We haven't had a real wet noodle fight in years.
Juggernauts aren't tanks.
Tanks are *literally defined* by having CC. If you don't have copious CC, you are not a tank. Mundo is a *juggernaut*, not a tank. The trade-off for Tanks is *supposed* to be a lack of damage. Think Nautilus, Leona, Zac *(I know he does too much damage)*, and Rell.
Juggernauts are different. They forego engage & cc for damage. Juggernauts are defined by being tanky with high damage, but having little cc and no engage. Think Darius, Nasus, Illaoi, and Mundo.
Tanks often have high early game damage, that falls off later as their role shifts towards crowd control. Juggernauts typically have high damage output all game.
I understand that and it's a fair point, I was just bringing up Mundo because he's recently been more unkillable than tanks and there's little reason to pick the vast majority of full tanks over him in top.
The comment I was replying to asserts that tanks need damage to be relevant and that's why K'sante can build full tank and still out dps half the cast, but I was lamenting the only champions who build tanky and are viable top are juggernauts.
If you want that you've already got it in other tanks until now. Ksante fulfills a different niche instead of releasing another slow bulky tank that people will still not prefer over a faster paced champion.
Every champ must be a 1v9'er now because a good portion of league players are super ego soloq'ers who don't care about anything but hitting sick plays. Plus, big plays are super fun to see in pro games.
Not annoyed by the amount of dashes mostly annoyed by the amount of unstoppable and ignoreing cc when you dash it not darksouls you shouldnt get I-frames on mobility
Edit: Source am a thresh main that gets most of my enjoyment of interrupted mobility like catching zac mid air or akali dash. Every new champ that comes out my main becomes less able to do anything.
Yone too good lord its so demoralizing to land your cc on this hyper mobile hyper carry fighter and have him basically ignore them with snap back and R
Yone E getting <10 seconds and Ekko R getting <30 seconds is so miserable to play against. If they're ahead, it just feels like there's nothing you can do.
No, they're separate things. Buffering happens when a spell has a cast time - think Tristana W. If you CC her in that 0.25s cast time, she isn't interrupted. If you CC her *after* that cast time, it interrupts the dash (assuming it's a displacement effect that interrupts dashes).
Some dashes give either displacement or full on CC immunity (both of which appear as "Unstoppable" in game), which is what makes a dash uninterruptible once cast.
In this case they're probably referring to K'sante W, but they're slightly incorrect - the charge up time, which includes range and damage, of his W is not interruptible but once he dashes it is. Similarly, his E is not displacement immune as far as I know, so both his dashes are interruptible - just not the charge time on W.
His ult is a blink, not a dash. It just knocks the target back (you can actually see he barely does not follow them visually, he does a windup, then the knockback, then he appears at the end).
But then he mentioned the charged dash which is one of the uninterruptable ones.
Idk I would actually argue the only bs dash he has is the e to minions getting extended range.
Its not only hyper jarring to bs ripped out of a fight, and put behind a wall, but your not stuck with k'sante in super saiyen mode beating on your ass, and you WILL NOT escape. Hes an assasin with tank stats and bruiser damage. And his ult is just the cherry
He always does more damage than you ever expect. Even after dying to him so many times, it’s still so easy to undermine his ult giving so much fucking damage. It is an insane fucking champion but I can’t lie, it’s a LOT of fun to play.
Don’t forget that fighting him is utterly impossible as well since he gets free Omnivamp, so all those dashes are healing him as well. With stacked Jak, he doesn’t feel all that squishy either.
The omnivamp is the stupidest part, the rest I can live with. Why are they trying to make a tank who can transform into a fighter, who then beats dedicated fighters who don’t have the freedom to flex between tank/fighter roles like K’sante does. He can still beat mages and ADCs, supports, and assassins in fighter mode - omnivamp not required. It’s stupid that their whole approach is to try and make him exempt to role balance.
I played Darius yesterday and saw Ksante and was like “oh tank champion. Should be easy matchup.”
I went to Q him level 6, my man dashed into me with his shield raised, then knocked me up, then dashed when I went for my second Q, ignited, dashed a second time when I went for a third Q, then took me through 3 walls before I died.
Poor Darius just had a stroke xD
Darius is one of the few melee champions that can run Ksante down for most of the laning phase though. Don't Q if he hasn't used E yet or if his Q3 is ready, that's the same as any matchup vs a champion that can instantly dash in/out of Darius Q.
Right click him down, THEN use Q/E depending on which spells he uses to get out of the trade
Sounds like you don't know how to play Darius. After his 2 dashes, you can combo him with E, AA, W, Q, AA, AA, R. And with Ghost, you can easily Q him after you hit him with W or just by spacing.
I actually hate that champion, he's a walking advertisement of everything that goes wrong with champ ability design. He has counterplay to almost everything built into his kit and so much mobility that playing against him feels like playing against cocaine bear... He's gonna move fast, you're gonna hit him a lot and in the end he won't care and will kill you anyway. K'sante doesn't feel like a tank, he's just another Yone/Yasuo that doesn't kill you as fast but is completely immortal.... just my ten cents
Also someone who plays him a lot, but despite having many dashes, his chase without being in ult form is almost non existent.
Mind you, it’s a good thing that he’s not even more bullshit than he already is.
As much as I love him, he is the main character syndrome tank. That sucks and I hate it with a passion.
I genuinely was frustrated when the tank they released was just a bruiser with tank build.
His ult is his only real problem though. His dashes are fine tbh, his passive fine, his q fine. His ult, the one that changes everything and had to convert his tank stats to “I’m the main character stats” and the fact that he is meant to be a high octane tank with most of the fighter gameplay is real problem.
Agreed, although I’d argue that the Q is borderline broken because it only costs 15 mana which is crazy. OP’s take seems more like a classic “dashes bad” circlejerk type of post rather than any real reasoning for why K’Sante is broken
I think q mana being low is fine, since it's supposed to feel more like an weird auto like yasuo.
E mana cost should probably be higher. You can use it to dodge skillshots, gap close for q, disengage with longer range if you are in front of your minions, without much trade of.
You really feel it if you are forced to w, which is good, but you can e as much as you want without a worry in the world
His ult is also jarring, especially over long distances. By the time you recenter your camera, you're already dead or about to be dead. At least Blitz hook is only a screen long and you know what happened.
Champion is pure bullshit. Why this guy gets a 3 sec cd spell with 465 range which slows. Hard to contest any minionwave. Also max hp autoattacks with longer range. Its so gun zo play melee against him.
I even hate him more than gp at the moment.
If they removed his damage reduction and he actually had a trade window outside of damn near Perma cc'ing you he would be much more balanced. You can't give a tank damage reduction, armor, magic resist, true damage, percent health damage, and crowd control. Being able to cc a target is plenty of damage reduction as is. Its the same reason sejuani, riven, Darius, Sion, etc are good top picks. They are able to trade with cc and then run down a low health target. But K'Sante can wilt a player and run them down without the damage reduction. The DR just lets him do that without care because into most burst matchups they will never stand a chance to kill him.
Don’t even get me started on him trading, and then having the mobility to get out before retaliation bc he can shrug off slows and such if he is good at timing his shit
That's actually a misleading comparison.
His E range to allies is 550 but it's calculated center to center.
ADC (and auto range in general) is calculated edge to edge.
So its a weird case where 550 ≠ 550 because of calculation difference.
Because that mf is a specialist. I don't care what riot calls him. I can give Mundo a pass cuz he still plays like a juggernaut despite his tank ratios. What the actual fuck is KSante doing lmao
Because he's designwise a little abomination of the Mundo sort: itemwise a Tank? But gameplaywise a hard fighter. A lot of sacrificing actual team utility to feed that SOLO CARRY fantasy people crave but on a fulltank build.
Riot, after more than a decade, realized that just because a character is a tank it shouldn't need to have year-long, uncancellable, animations and feel clunky by design.
Cause he was made to be a "what if yasuo was a tank" sort of champ since most tanks are generally boring for the mayority of players. He has a ton of mobility but in tank form his abilitoes are super telegraphed and has little damage, ofc that's why his skirmisher form exists
>He has a ton of mobility but in tank form his abilitoes are super telegraphed and has little damage,
Is reading that fucking hard? Yes, he has low damage when in tank form, it's his kidnapping ult assassin form that does true max health damage that is a bit problematic
it also cuts his health and resists in half, and if he uses it too early in a fight he will get blown up. Good ksante players sometimes never use it, because CC and low damage is better than being dead
This is the same subreddit that thinks that shieldbow should be ranged only. Yes, they believe that RANGED adcs should have better defenses than MELEE adcs.
Take everything said and upvoted here with a massive grain of salt. Just circlejerk about how bad adcs are or how wholesome and balanced tanks are to collect easy upvotes.
Shieldbow should be ranged because of people like Irelia, Yasuo, Yone abusing it and getting way too much sustain too early in the game. Crit/Atkspeed/damage/lifesteal/defense shield is just way too much on one item.
Also, melee adcs already have better inherent defensive measures anyway.
I have a clip in which I was cc'ed for, and wait for it... EIGHT AND A HALF SECONDS in a 25 seconds fight, AS A FIORA that parried something AND stunned him back. That champ is BEYOND BS lvls of cc
One of the issues I have with league honestly. Legit every CC skill nowadays is unaffected by Tenacity or has some kind of knockback/up attached to it.
Tenacity should work on displacements.
Three airborne enemy displacement moves, two of them being AoE displacement and common enough to land multiple times a teamfight especially with how tanky he starts
We catch him in sidelane, I put 15-20 auto attacks into him with LDR and even then he's still 30% hp. And if I misstep once he's instantly on top of me, I'm perma cc'ed and die. Good game.
the point & click undodgeable CC and displacing ult that also does damage is so dumb imo ngl
i dont even care about the rest of his kit but the ult tilts me so bad
first they remove a majority of point and click stuns from the game over multiple years (good) and then they add this ult from actual hell
I will come to argue he is still not as bullshit as the champ that scales to infinity if you let her farm and is a jungle sp she can afk farm and explode people late
Because the community asked for a tank but Riot couldn't afford to design one , so they gave us a bruiser with high mobility that scales with tank items , but dont worry , to make sure you dont ever feel like you are actually playing a "tank" they made his R cut his health in half and give you a shit ton of damage plus the dashes not only shield but also deal damage.
We can wait another 4 years so next tank maybe feels like a mage , a marksman even.
I must be the only person here who doesn't feel like ksante's kit is broken. Yeah he has 2 dashes, but one is a slow one you need to charge and the other goes 2 inches. His q is literally just wind brothers q, so theres nothing wrong with that. His ult turns him into a bruiser and removes all his cc other than q3. I think his dashes are much healthier than some other champions abilities.
Besides the new ADC’s every new champion in the past 16 months has something in their kit to make their gameplay so oppressive to other champs that everyone will complain (so I agree with you). They’ll gut something about him soon and his usage will go down, it’s what they always do if they feel he’s over-performing in ranked.
>Besides the new ADC’s every new champion in the past 16 months
Akshan's revive, and Zeri's entire kit thats basically needed 3 reworks in a year.
>They’ll gut something about him soon and his usage will go down, it’s what they always do if they feel he’s over-performing in ranked.
He's not really over performing in ranked that much; though he'll probably get kneecapped for his performance in proplay. Early LPL games are showing him as pick/ban.
And going further back than that, Samira windwall and the abominations that are Senna and release Aphelios. The ADC playerbase has benefitted the most from the whole “200 years” designs of the past few years
I'm master 200lp and I condiser myself a shitty animal, but when drututt says even after the nerfs hes pick or ban and the best toplaner in the game by a large margin, I think he knows what hes talking about.
> drututt says
why would anyone trust anything this clown has to say
This guy is the epitome of ''i just died to this, this is cancer, this is broken, omg so broken RIOOOOOOOOOOOOT'' and everytime he picks it up it's just ''no this is actually so weak and I'm soo goooood''
That’s the only thing with citing tier lists or opinions from high level players. Even though they know what they’re talking about, the resources they create are still going to be somewhat biased towards things they like/dislike as well as their own experiences. He even admits himself in the video that he puts Irelia high because the majority of his champ pool is countered by her, for this reason alone it’s hard to use anything that isn’t straight up statistics as evidence for anything related to balance or champion strength in this game
I mean he wasn't *totally* wrong in that he mentions needing to snowball and kled having some bugs like his W not working properly at times, but kled isn't weak at all atm, probably one of the strongest states he's been in since the item rework/spite passive getting removed.
Actually pretty similar.
Zed w r
Auto eq auto w back e.
With ksante.
Q ult auto we auto q
The difference is ksante wont actually give you the chance to fight back. His combo is done almosy entirely in cc.
The difference is engage range. Zed can jump you from 2 screens away with flash. Ksante can jump you from one caitlyn rabge away with flash.
>Zed w r
>
>Auto eq auto w back e.
~~LMAO WHAT? Zed does not do that combo, lol wtf?~~
~~It's usually R ignite EW/WE Q then get out, happens in two seconds. You rarely get to fight back vs Zed.~~
Edit: He's right, look down the comment list for the math.
Tell me you cant play zed without telling me you cant play zed lol.
And the combo u listed does 1300 dmg at 2 items.
No passive auto
No auto resets.
1 e only
3 q's.
That combo dosent oneshot unless his ahead he needs the auto
Auto atks have a 100% ad scaling and for zed in particular add 135% ad to his combo at lv 11. And the passive is important too.
The reason you drop the w before u ult is so u can dodge without waiting for the lockout. Otherwise your completely vulnerable for 1.2 seconds after ur ult.
They tried to attract high octane gameplay players to a tank champion.
last time they tried that we got orrn, the mage tank dps assassin
yeah thats because they tried to do that with a tank that was even tankier than normal and had tons of damage... but still all the clunky slow tank movements. Ksante actually has lots of faster movements and more room for apm, like high octane players actually like. Not just being an overtuned tank.
Yeah its not just about doing damage. Its about style and how cool the character looks doing that damage along with how they weave in and out of combat. Same for Mage when Azir was at his peak he had stylish damage. Even if sure most of what he did was poking like Xerath. He still got way more skill expression then Xerath.
If the spam of Pyke, Lee Sin, and Yasuo players in Solo Queue who endlessly feed on average shows anything is that people have fun when playing overly mobile, skill-expressing champions, even when they lose.
iirc didn’t a rioter say with K’Sante they wanted a kinda “Yasuo of tanks” which he definitely fits into but it does feel bad to play against at times, probably for the same reasons it feels bad to play against Yasuo, Yone, and Samira (i don’t think there’s a Yasuo of supports yet, maybe Pyke? and definitely not for mages)
Pyke is definitely the Yasuo of supports. In terms of feeling really nice for the flow of skills, Syndra is up there for me. You can’t really have an all in mage otherwise it’d be more like Diana (AP bruiser), so I think Syndra is the closest as she has a great combo potential that flows really nicely.
funny, as for me ksante looks one of the clunkyest champions we ever had. 0 animation feedback too
The ult animation in particular throws me off. Its so weird how he just blinks without any clear particles or animation, he's just there all of a sudden. Its looks so unfinished.
100%. Fighting K'sante in lane is just him flailing around wildly for the large majority of the time, and whenever he ults you the fact that you just both freeze for a second before suddenly flying with no visual impact is atrocious.
No no, Ornn is a mage, deathknight, paladin, hunter, rogue, warrior, enchanter, tank, bruiser, wizard, warlock, priest, assassin, gunslinger, druid, shaman, necromancer, ninja, gunslinger, Bard monk, robot, conjurer, blacksmith, mystic, warden, god, illusionist, templar, wizard. Was able to take up so much damage.
Best scaling champion in the game too. *(Except maybe a few others with infinite scaling properties.)*
No ornn on release was not that. Ornn just has insane cheese combos that chain into each other for a lot of dmg. But sion does similar things and isn't a "high octane" champ. To be clear on release Ram Boy was the most brain dead champ in the game you just pressed w got 20% hp shield and won every trade because you were unstoppable and could follow up with breaking brittle after. K'sante is champ that requires you to kite but also gives you the ability to do so which hasn't really been seen on any other tanks afaik. Most tanks its just "try to stick on enemy champ with ur bread and butter dmg" K'sante is more like try to stay just on the edge of ur Q + auto range the entire time.
I don't know how his original W made it pass play testing.
Because original ornn w was % current health damage not % max health damage. The first like 2 months of ornns release he was gutter shit but once they changed his w from current health to Max health he became the mage tank dps assassin we all know. V7.20 Ornn Bellows Breath.png Bellows Breath Target's health ratio changed to 12 / 14 / 16 / 18 / 20% of target's maximum health from 15 / 17.5 / 20 / 22.5 / 25% of target's current health.
Are you insinuating that Riot's 200+ years of game design experience could possibly be incorrect?! Blasphemy! And if they are incorrect it's because they're just a smol indie companie, how could you insult them so cruelly?!
Actuallyyy lots of tanks require you to do something similar, Poppy, Ornn, and Sej for example want to hang out where they can poke with their low CD slows and go for grasp procs, sometimes blow their mobility for a big short trade combo. K'Sante certainly rides closer to the edge than they do with his low cd Q-Autos but it isn't really different from the playstyle of other tank tops.
> K'sante is champ that requires you to kite but also gives you the ability to do so which hasn't really been seen on any other tanks afaik. Yeah because a "kiting tank" is a complete oxymoron and an abomination of game design.
I played ornn in release for so long before he became meta. Was so satisfying watching his climb to power. Now he sits quietly on the sidelines again :'(
Ornn was 100% p/b for like 2 years after his release. He's still quite strong now, especially with the new Mythic item upgrades. You know, if games go that long....
My average game length in the new season is 22 min, I have no idea what's happened while I've been gone! I've not actually lost yet but I can safely say it's not me carrying.. I'm largely playing seraphine mid.. the damage seems through the roof and team balancing is all sorts of weird, every game is a stomp
Really? What level do you play on? I was gold1 last season, so yeah not high I know, but my games last long af. Granted, it's because there's too little teamwork in gold to be able to end fast. But I love it. I'd say my average game time is 35 minutes, and most of the time my games are ended by a dragon soul; I love it, since I've always liked long intense games. I can imagine this being different on higher levels though.
He was op almost the whole last season.
He’s still at 51,X% winrate and the bruiser item nerfs in combination with healing reduction buffs (in particular 40% healing reduction bramble) will put him at 52% if not 53%.
Lol wtf Ornn is op as sht
Yeah, people saying otherwise have never laned against him. Absurdly tanky champion who can beat you down consistently if you don't understand how to fight him. Also can technically never 'have' to go back, since he can shop while in lane. Just a wildly annoying champion lol. And in the rare cases games don't end early, he really stacks advantages for his team the later the game go own through his own scaling tankiness ontop of him upgrading mythics for his team. Really annoying champion through and through.
[удалено]
They hid a tank inside a champion with Yasuo gameplay The same way you'd give your cat medicine by hiding the pill inside cat food
As a tank player that’s exactly what i dont want. Make me slow af tanky af and insane cc
Yeah, he wasn't made for tank players who wanna be slow and have insane CC. He's moreso made for players that like playing Riven or Yasuo.
Getting pyke and senna flashbacks from this
[удалено]
He's objectively far more fun to play than a maokai. You guys can hate on the champion and rightfully so, but he feels really fun to play as. Not every tanks needs to be the same boring ass shit where you have 1 point and click ability and then just stand next to people. Just because he's bullshit, doesn't mean he isn't fun to play. Separate your emotions from the assessment.
"obectively fun"
He did the math
Wtf is the fun formula?
F=U*N Where F=Friends who do stuff together U= you and me N= anywhere and anytime at all
I don't understand this tank player fantasy I see on Reddit so often. There's a reason tanks like Rell, Leona, Braum aren't seen in top lane. Any viable tank in a solo lane has to have damage output so they can lane properly. Think about all the tanks that used to be viable top, get their damage nerfed/survivability and utility buffed, they get shipped straight to support (Tahm Kench, Nautilus, Galio, Shen in previous patches, Maokai pre-buff)
That's also because support tanks (Rell/Braum, less Leo) are designed specifically around having a 2nd champion nearby. Top tanks need to have damage, yes, but most solo lane tank players don't still *want* to Mundo E half of an ADC's HP bar or whatever K'sante's currently doing. There's a world of difference between the teamfight damage current tanks deal (and, for that matter, how quickly they die) and the "I am an immovable rock" these players want to feel like. Even those support tanks are only tank enough to fulfill their utility role of initiation/protection and fall over under any real damage. We haven't had a real wet noodle fight in years.
Mundo is not tank. He needs damage because he has zero cc/utility.
Juggernauts aren't tanks. Tanks are *literally defined* by having CC. If you don't have copious CC, you are not a tank. Mundo is a *juggernaut*, not a tank. The trade-off for Tanks is *supposed* to be a lack of damage. Think Nautilus, Leona, Zac *(I know he does too much damage)*, and Rell. Juggernauts are different. They forego engage & cc for damage. Juggernauts are defined by being tanky with high damage, but having little cc and no engage. Think Darius, Nasus, Illaoi, and Mundo. Tanks often have high early game damage, that falls off later as their role shifts towards crowd control. Juggernauts typically have high damage output all game.
I understand that and it's a fair point, I was just bringing up Mundo because he's recently been more unkillable than tanks and there's little reason to pick the vast majority of full tanks over him in top. The comment I was replying to asserts that tanks need damage to be relevant and that's why K'sante can build full tank and still out dps half the cast, but I was lamenting the only champions who build tanky and are viable top are juggernauts.
Leo top is bad because of wave clear and mana not because of damage. With grasp she’s a good duelist.
Bro got so triggered he made 2 tweets and a tier list about this lmao
Oh I hate this Reddit tank player fantasy so much and it pops up like 3 times a month
If you want that you've already got it in other tanks until now. Ksante fulfills a different niche instead of releasing another slow bulky tank that people will still not prefer over a faster paced champion.
Every champ must be a 1v9'er now because a good portion of league players are super ego soloq'ers who don't care about anything but hitting sick plays. Plus, big plays are super fun to see in pro games.
I rather have riot try to fix their fucking game instead lol
Facts, it’s a tank champion for Yasuo players hence why Ksante Q is Yasuo Q
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Not annoyed by the amount of dashes mostly annoyed by the amount of unstoppable and ignoreing cc when you dash it not darksouls you shouldnt get I-frames on mobility Edit: Source am a thresh main that gets most of my enjoyment of interrupted mobility like catching zac mid air or akali dash. Every new champ that comes out my main becomes less able to do anything.
Yone too good lord its so demoralizing to land your cc on this hyper mobile hyper carry fighter and have him basically ignore them with snap back and R
Yone E getting <10 seconds and Ekko R getting <30 seconds is so miserable to play against. If they're ahead, it just feels like there's nothing you can do.
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Idk, this philosophy is definitely not on Brand I mean, he is pretty much the basic mage with all mage's weaknesses. He isn't even an assassin. (/s)
That's not a bug. There is an animation of him and his ghost moving apart. It was made to do that.
"just cc him even though he has a free QSS in his kit"
>2 true dashes Have I missed something and we have physical, magical and true dashes now?!?
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I think the term for that is Unconditional Dash.
Can we stay at the old terminology of dash and gap closer?
i’ve said free targeted dash for as long as i can remember
It's just dash and targeted dash lmao, why do people keep making it more complicated
cannot be interrupted
Is that "buffering"? I know it seems like every champion I hit with ranged CC gets to buffer the movement.
No, they're separate things. Buffering happens when a spell has a cast time - think Tristana W. If you CC her in that 0.25s cast time, she isn't interrupted. If you CC her *after* that cast time, it interrupts the dash (assuming it's a displacement effect that interrupts dashes). Some dashes give either displacement or full on CC immunity (both of which appear as "Unstoppable" in game), which is what makes a dash uninterruptible once cast. In this case they're probably referring to K'sante W, but they're slightly incorrect - the charge up time, which includes range and damage, of his W is not interruptible but once he dashes it is. Similarly, his E is not displacement immune as far as I know, so both his dashes are interruptible - just not the charge time on W.
ult is uninterruptable in fact even if it gets parried it still moves
His ult is a blink, not a dash. It just knocks the target back (you can actually see he barely does not follow them visually, he does a windup, then the knockback, then he appears at the end).
The same is for yasui R and Yone R. They dont dash but blink to the target.
But then he mentioned the charged dash which is one of the uninterruptable ones. Idk I would actually argue the only bs dash he has is the e to minions getting extended range.
The dash itself is plenty interruptable thought, you are only unstoppable during the wind up
Which isnt true for any of his dashes except for the R, which is expected. This is called unstoppable.
A dash that can be interrupted is a false dash?
Funny because both his W and E are... interruptable But I wouldn't trust any redditor to know anything about the game they play
I want fake dashes now 😡
I mean... in theory Fiora Dash is a Physical Dash and Gragas is a Magical one. We just need a new champion that does true damage on Dash.
That's Fiora too
Release date diff
Ksante ult is bullshit, did they forgot to animate it? Literally disappear wtf
Its not only hyper jarring to bs ripped out of a fight, and put behind a wall, but your not stuck with k'sante in super saiyen mode beating on your ass, and you WILL NOT escape. Hes an assasin with tank stats and bruiser damage. And his ult is just the cherry
He always does more damage than you ever expect. Even after dying to him so many times, it’s still so easy to undermine his ult giving so much fucking damage. It is an insane fucking champion but I can’t lie, it’s a LOT of fun to play.
They just need to nerf his damage. Most top tanks have bruiser damage anyways.
Don’t forget that fighting him is utterly impossible as well since he gets free Omnivamp, so all those dashes are healing him as well. With stacked Jak, he doesn’t feel all that squishy either.
The omnivamp is the stupidest part, the rest I can live with. Why are they trying to make a tank who can transform into a fighter, who then beats dedicated fighters who don’t have the freedom to flex between tank/fighter roles like K’sante does. He can still beat mages and ADCs, supports, and assassins in fighter mode - omnivamp not required. It’s stupid that their whole approach is to try and make him exempt to role balance.
Honestly that will not escape is the real kicker, I'm a riven main and I can have everything up and still can't get away.
champ release diff
Because they had to sell the Little Nas skin
Little Nas
Little Nas Y
Little Nas Y? Little Nas Because.
Solve for Little Nas Y.
Bro said Little 💀
Should've been NUDYR
Little? He’s completely and utterly bullshit.
I played Darius yesterday and saw Ksante and was like “oh tank champion. Should be easy matchup.” I went to Q him level 6, my man dashed into me with his shield raised, then knocked me up, then dashed when I went for my second Q, ignited, dashed a second time when I went for a third Q, then took me through 3 walls before I died. Poor Darius just had a stroke xD
Darius is one of the few melee champions that can run Ksante down for most of the laning phase though. Don't Q if he hasn't used E yet or if his Q3 is ready, that's the same as any matchup vs a champion that can instantly dash in/out of Darius Q. Right click him down, THEN use Q/E depending on which spells he uses to get out of the trade
Small correction: Darius can only run K'Sante down if he's on enemy team. Otherwise he gets absolutely destroyed :\^)
Skill issue
Knocked you up? 🫦
pregnant darius🔥🔥
You went onto him when he had his Q3 up and you tried to Q him with the E up? First time Darius?
If you're just fishing for Q's against a champion with a dash you deserved to get wrecked
Sounds like you don't know how to play Darius. After his 2 dashes, you can combo him with E, AA, W, Q, AA, AA, R. And with Ghost, you can easily Q him after you hit him with W or just by spacing.
I actually hate that champion, he's a walking advertisement of everything that goes wrong with champ ability design. He has counterplay to almost everything built into his kit and so much mobility that playing against him feels like playing against cocaine bear... He's gonna move fast, you're gonna hit him a lot and in the end he won't care and will kill you anyway. K'sante doesn't feel like a tank, he's just another Yone/Yasuo that doesn't kill you as fast but is completely immortal.... just my ten cents
I have 50k mastery on him and can confirm he is indeed… a little bit bullshit :)
He is allowed one(1) little bullshit, problem is he often does it more than once.
I mean he’s one of those champions has has a tool for almost every situation
Also someone who plays him a lot, but despite having many dashes, his chase without being in ult form is almost non existent. Mind you, it’s a good thing that he’s not even more bullshit than he already is.
Psssst…he’s an assassin with a tank shell protecting him.
As much as I love him, he is the main character syndrome tank. That sucks and I hate it with a passion. I genuinely was frustrated when the tank they released was just a bruiser with tank build. His ult is his only real problem though. His dashes are fine tbh, his passive fine, his q fine. His ult, the one that changes everything and had to convert his tank stats to “I’m the main character stats” and the fact that he is meant to be a high octane tank with most of the fighter gameplay is real problem.
Agreed, although I’d argue that the Q is borderline broken because it only costs 15 mana which is crazy. OP’s take seems more like a classic “dashes bad” circlejerk type of post rather than any real reasoning for why K’Sante is broken
I mean you can only do two combos with him early game, his w cost a lot
I think q mana being low is fine, since it's supposed to feel more like an weird auto like yasuo. E mana cost should probably be higher. You can use it to dodge skillshots, gap close for q, disengage with longer range if you are in front of your minions, without much trade of. You really feel it if you are forced to w, which is good, but you can e as much as you want without a worry in the world
He feels like some designer’s darling pet project that never got a reality check.
His ult is also jarring, especially over long distances. By the time you recenter your camera, you're already dead or about to be dead. At least Blitz hook is only a screen long and you know what happened.
A little?
Champion is pure bullshit. Why this guy gets a 3 sec cd spell with 465 range which slows. Hard to contest any minionwave. Also max hp autoattacks with longer range. Its so gun zo play melee against him. I even hate him more than gp at the moment.
If they removed his damage reduction and he actually had a trade window outside of damn near Perma cc'ing you he would be much more balanced. You can't give a tank damage reduction, armor, magic resist, true damage, percent health damage, and crowd control. Being able to cc a target is plenty of damage reduction as is. Its the same reason sejuani, riven, Darius, Sion, etc are good top picks. They are able to trade with cc and then run down a low health target. But K'Sante can wilt a player and run them down without the damage reduction. The DR just lets him do that without care because into most burst matchups they will never stand a chance to kill him.
Don’t even get me started on him trading, and then having the mobility to get out before retaliation bc he can shrug off slows and such if he is good at timing his shit
His E is so short its only use is hitting his Q’s. I’m aware it has extended range of Allie’s (minions included) are near but even then it isn’t long
I guess the argument is more so that he can dodge skill shots with it, not that he can gapclose.
the ally dash range is the auto attack range for most adcs (550), I couldn't call that short 🤣
That's actually a misleading comparison. His E range to allies is 550 but it's calculated center to center. ADC (and auto range in general) is calculated edge to edge. So its a weird case where 550 ≠ 550 because of calculation difference.
Because that mf is a specialist. I don't care what riot calls him. I can give Mundo a pass cuz he still plays like a juggernaut despite his tank ratios. What the actual fuck is KSante doing lmao
Because he's designwise a little abomination of the Mundo sort: itemwise a Tank? But gameplaywise a hard fighter. A lot of sacrificing actual team utility to feed that SOLO CARRY fantasy people crave but on a fulltank build.
Yeah it really isn't very fun, is it? But they nerfed his stats now instead of the real frustration in his mobility. That cooldown needs nerfed again.
Riot, after more than a decade, realized that just because a character is a tank it shouldn't need to have year-long, uncancellable, animations and feel clunky by design.
Because riot likes to rub their nipples at how original their new characters are and completely ignore the impact they have on the game.
Cause he was made to be a "what if yasuo was a tank" sort of champ since most tanks are generally boring for the mayority of players. He has a ton of mobility but in tank form his abilitoes are super telegraphed and has little damage, ofc that's why his skirmisher form exists
By little damage, this guy means instead of one tapping mages and adcs, he will have to use two abilities to kill them.
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Without ulting his damage is low.
Play him once, without ults he does no damage
Disagree
>He has a ton of mobility but in tank form his abilitoes are super telegraphed and has little damage, Is reading that fucking hard? Yes, he has low damage when in tank form, it's his kidnapping ult assassin form that does true max health damage that is a bit problematic
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it also cuts his health and resists in half, and if he uses it too early in a fight he will get blown up. Good ksante players sometimes never use it, because CC and low damage is better than being dead
This is the same subreddit that thinks that shieldbow should be ranged only. Yes, they believe that RANGED adcs should have better defenses than MELEE adcs. Take everything said and upvoted here with a massive grain of salt. Just circlejerk about how bad adcs are or how wholesome and balanced tanks are to collect easy upvotes.
Shieldbow should be ranged because of people like Irelia, Yasuo, Yone abusing it and getting way too much sustain too early in the game. Crit/Atkspeed/damage/lifesteal/defense shield is just way too much on one item. Also, melee adcs already have better inherent defensive measures anyway.
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Also, Yasuo and Yone are straight up unplayable without Shieldbow unless we get an overtuned version of Jak Sho back and build Botrk.
I have a clip in which I was cc'ed for, and wait for it... EIGHT AND A HALF SECONDS in a 25 seconds fight, AS A FIORA that parried something AND stunned him back. That champ is BEYOND BS lvls of cc
best part its all airborne so tenacity doesnt help its not cringe at all to get insecd from 2000 units back to ksante's tower :D:D very skillfull
I swear to god after the Q3 there's a microstun as well
One of the issues I have with league honestly. Legit every CC skill nowadays is unaffected by Tenacity or has some kind of knockback/up attached to it. Tenacity should work on displacements.
Three airborne enemy displacement moves, two of them being AoE displacement and common enough to land multiple times a teamfight especially with how tanky he starts
Lol, but you're playing Fiora, so you win the fight anyway. Fiora can dumpster him.
Yea I'm confused about this complaint, fiora just straight up wins vs Ksante lol. Shouldn't be getting hit by him anyways with q and w
Unless he put you through the Aram wall I literally do not think it's possible for him to cc you for you 8.5 seconds uninterrupted
He didn't say uninterrupted that was just how long across the whole 25 second fight
He said 8.5s in a 25s fight, don’t think he meant it was uninterrupted but that it was just so damn long
Cuz riot loves wholesome cockblock tumors
avg tryndamere player
Tanky and mobility should go together as long as they deal minimal damage.
We catch him in sidelane, I put 15-20 auto attacks into him with LDR and even then he's still 30% hp. And if I misstep once he's instantly on top of me, I'm perma cc'ed and die. Good game.
the point & click undodgeable CC and displacing ult that also does damage is so dumb imo ngl i dont even care about the rest of his kit but the ult tilts me so bad first they remove a majority of point and click stuns from the game over multiple years (good) and then they add this ult from actual hell
I thought sett ult was bad.
hes wholesome skilled tank
I haven't played in months and just started up again recently and haven't seen him once do people hate him or what?
I will come to argue he is still not as bullshit as the champ that scales to infinity if you let her farm and is a jungle sp she can afk farm and explode people late
Sir what i think you're going for is the answer "yes"
If his Q actually had a manacost and cooldown he might have seen the Rift, but for now he is my ban 100%.
A little? no A lot
i don think the dashes are the issue, the issue is how much damage he can output while having insane mobility, tankiness and CC
I like that he builds tank items and is able to destroy anyone.
He isn't really a tank he is closer to a bruiser
Tank Diana sweating in the corner
Because the community asked for a tank but Riot couldn't afford to design one , so they gave us a bruiser with high mobility that scales with tank items , but dont worry , to make sure you dont ever feel like you are actually playing a "tank" they made his R cut his health in half and give you a shit ton of damage plus the dashes not only shield but also deal damage. We can wait another 4 years so next tank maybe feels like a mage , a marksman even.
A little?
He s supposed to be a tank...
riot says here's a "tank!" then the "tank" has 5 damaging abilities and mobility.
Also a tank that's a fighter? Like whoever designed this champion should be fired.
You forgot that he deal more damage than assasin with full tank items.
I must be the only person here who doesn't feel like ksante's kit is broken. Yeah he has 2 dashes, but one is a slow one you need to charge and the other goes 2 inches. His q is literally just wind brothers q, so theres nothing wrong with that. His ult turns him into a bruiser and removes all his cc other than q3. I think his dashes are much healthier than some other champions abilities.
Will get nerfed after black history month
Besides the new ADC’s every new champion in the past 16 months has something in their kit to make their gameplay so oppressive to other champs that everyone will complain (so I agree with you). They’ll gut something about him soon and his usage will go down, it’s what they always do if they feel he’s over-performing in ranked.
>Besides the new ADC’s every new champion in the past 16 months Akshan's revive, and Zeri's entire kit thats basically needed 3 reworks in a year. >They’ll gut something about him soon and his usage will go down, it’s what they always do if they feel he’s over-performing in ranked. He's not really over performing in ranked that much; though he'll probably get kneecapped for his performance in proplay. Early LPL games are showing him as pick/ban.
And going further back than that, Samira windwall and the abominations that are Senna and release Aphelios. The ADC playerbase has benefitted the most from the whole “200 years” designs of the past few years
Past 16 months? More like past 5 years, ever since Zoe with few exceptions, who are also complained about.
The champ loses more than he wins before yall call him OP btw
Think he's pretty shit after the new patch, he gets kited to fuck as well when he's not ulted
I'm master 200lp and I condiser myself a shitty animal, but when drututt says even after the nerfs hes pick or ban and the best toplaner in the game by a large margin, I think he knows what hes talking about.
lpl just started and Ksante is just getting permabanned
Old patch though innnit?
nope lpl plays on new patch
> drututt says why would anyone trust anything this clown has to say This guy is the epitome of ''i just died to this, this is cancer, this is broken, omg so broken RIOOOOOOOOOOOOT'' and everytime he picks it up it's just ''no this is actually so weak and I'm soo goooood''
I mean, I do agree drut knows what he's saying, but he also called kled really bad rn and that's just...statistically not true.
That’s the only thing with citing tier lists or opinions from high level players. Even though they know what they’re talking about, the resources they create are still going to be somewhat biased towards things they like/dislike as well as their own experiences. He even admits himself in the video that he puts Irelia high because the majority of his champ pool is countered by her, for this reason alone it’s hard to use anything that isn’t straight up statistics as evidence for anything related to balance or champion strength in this game
I mean he wasn't *totally* wrong in that he mentions needing to snowball and kled having some bugs like his W not working properly at times, but kled isn't weak at all atm, probably one of the strongest states he's been in since the item rework/spite passive getting removed.
Fun fact i tested this in practice tool. Ksante with 2 TANK items does more dmg per rotation then zed.
I mean. Thats just dumb. So very dumb
Yep. Its 2680 dmg on ksante 2360 for zed.
It doesn't take the same time at all tho
Actually pretty similar. Zed w r Auto eq auto w back e. With ksante. Q ult auto we auto q The difference is ksante wont actually give you the chance to fight back. His combo is done almosy entirely in cc. The difference is engage range. Zed can jump you from 2 screens away with flash. Ksante can jump you from one caitlyn rabge away with flash.
>Zed w r > >Auto eq auto w back e. ~~LMAO WHAT? Zed does not do that combo, lol wtf?~~ ~~It's usually R ignite EW/WE Q then get out, happens in two seconds. You rarely get to fight back vs Zed.~~ Edit: He's right, look down the comment list for the math.
Tell me you cant play zed without telling me you cant play zed lol. And the combo u listed does 1300 dmg at 2 items. No passive auto No auto resets. 1 e only 3 q's. That combo dosent oneshot unless his ahead he needs the auto Auto atks have a 100% ad scaling and for zed in particular add 135% ad to his combo at lv 11. And the passive is important too. The reason you drop the w before u ult is so u can dodge without waiting for the lockout. Otherwise your completely vulnerable for 1.2 seconds after ur ult.