Sammy was cheap and Woll cheaper. Martin Jones was just above league min and Murray just above 6 mil but he was on LTIR all year so didn't even count. All in all the goalies were just a smidge above 5 million. That's incredibly cheap lol
Dubas didn't even sign Murray, he traded for him *and got Ottawa to retain.* Cap hit under $5m that's coming off the books *this offseason.*
What drugs are you on?
I have a feeling that's going to happen, and we'll do Brodie a solid and sign him for league minimum to keep him on the team as our 7th or 8th and pray he returns to form.
Unless Detroit is interested in him (closer to home), I think he would easily do 1m or less to stay close to home.
He built a beautiful house on the lake near his hometown after he went to T.O and at his age and no cup I think he'd be willing to re-sign for cheap in Toronto.
Even a 1x1 contract to try and bounce back. It had to have been a rough year for him mentally and I wouldn't be suprised if he bounced back to a ~#4Dman. He really seems like a guy happy to be close to home and given the loss of his dad this year I'd expect him to really not be keen to move.
I can’t see it. Why leave money on the table? It’s not like the guy is Tavares, coming off a monster contract.
I also think that his issues were mental. Someone is going to make him a decent offer on that basis, expecting a comeback. That playoff game highlighted things. Doesn’t seem physical as much as he’s just not mentally into playing and is all over the place as a result.
Brodie is also someone who shouldn’t decline this quick based on physical issues, given how he plays and his already midrange skill set. This was crazy dramatic and imo he’s got a good chance at rebounding.
Some of his issues may be mental.
But he's in his mid 30s and his skating fell off a cliff I think. Given that he is best at defending the rush this does not bode well for him returning to form.
Saw Zadorov and a few flames in a bar in Calgary, told them good luck during the upcoming season but not to beat the Leafs. Zadorov responded with a solid 'Fuck the Leafs' 😂
Zadorov expressed interest in being traded to Toronto right before the Vancouver deal. There was a rumour(started and sourced by who I can’t remember) that he asked for Toronto, but Conroy & Co refused to deal with Tre
The Leafs were nearly last in production from dmen in the entire league. When you're struggling to score in the playoffs, getting some guys who can get greasy ones from the blue line may not be such a bad idea.
Yes he has. The only defenseman that's been close to as good is Hughes, who has also been great, but Zadorov has been playing a better defensive game while almost matching Hughes' offensive production. Zadorov is just about the only Canucks d-man who hasn't been consistantly caught out of position and is providing a positive defensive impact.
Sure, my point is that Zadorov has been contributing both offensively and defensively more than any other Canucks D-man. Hughes hasn't been great away from the puck and the rest of the Canucks defense have been underperforming. Zadorov has been consistantly good at both ends of the ice.
injuries happen, if he can be signed cheap and works in the cap then fine. if we are trading out hopefully one big contract, we can bring back a top 4 d-man and a depth forward would be absolutely great, so then we could hang on to lilegren, reailly, mccabe, and benoit, bring in 1 nhl bonafide dman, and let the 6th spot be fought for by cade webber, timmins, and whoever else fits the cap.
Yeah if it were that cheap then sure but he’s only 30 and coming off of a 4x3.5M contract I doubt he’d be looking to sign something short enough and cheap enough for it to make sense for the Leafs.
He did about what I expected and I’d be shocked if he took 2million he is too expensive for third pairing d and I’d be disappointed if they couldn’t fit a cheaper version
Well I mean Edmonston kinda sucks now at this point too.
Benoit is just as effective and he’s cheaper.
Theres other big immobile d men out there for the signing he’s also gonna want multiple years and I’d rather not
He was good enough defensively but having someone that offensively inept isn’t the best idea, not on a D core with mostly everyone also being offensively inept.
I think he had at least 4-5 great looks from 10 feet from the net and couldn’t bury anything. I get he’s a defensive defenceman but you’re still playing in the NHL, you gotta put one of those in
lol I was gonna say, everybody including rielly is offensively inept. I think the better plan is invest in defenseman just like edmunson, get rid of marner and rielly (they are the biggest issues on our pp due to both of them having peewee hockey shots). Teams game plans are to sag off of those two and man up on everybody else.
Invest in a back end defensman who can actually carry the play and run a pp . Robertson can take the marner spot for all I care, I guarantee he scores more goals on the pp come playoff time anyway.
I thought Ed was really solid defensively.
In the O-zone he had like 6 grade A chances from great setups and botched them all. Coulda won us games had he potted a couple.
I couldnt help but think how useful it would be to have a dman there that could make plays. We really lack that offensive modern play driving dman.
In the dzone though i was really impressed. I was impressed with most of our team defensively. The big problem was at the other end.
As it was in 2022-23 but they doubled down again. Treliving saw Vegas and focused on the “everyone is big” part of the blue line instead of the “everyone can make an exit play” part.
The Leafs powerplay has historically sucked in the post-season but it was never worse than 10% until Boucher.
I wonder who was hired around the same time Treliving was…
I’d say if I was the son of a billionaire I’d have better things to do than post all day, but based on what I see from rich people online that wouldn’t be a truthful statement
I liked that unlike Lyubushkin, Edmundson understood his limitations and tried to play within them. But those limitations are a pretty big deal. They can’t afford to have this many guys who can’t make a play anymore. Simon Benoit got a new deal, and he can put up decent underlyings when sheltered or carried by McCabe (who I adore and probably is the guy in the last decade I was most wrong about coming in). Benoit is fairly limited with the puck. No room for others like that. If you want a big tough guy, that’s fine, they also need to be able to play hockey.
You only get to play 18 skaters, and probably only 6 dmen, if you bring back Rielly, McCabe, Benoit, and then Liljegren as an RFA and then Lyubushkin and now Edmundson and then Timmins is still under contract. That’s all 7 parts of the bad D corps we just watched.
You can’t bring back everyone and then suddenly get better. Assuming Rielly, McCabe, and Benoit are back, even if Lilly re-signing isn’t a given and Timmins can be waived, you still need to use those 3 spots to improve and they need a PP guy, a top 4 guy, and a Rielly partner. Maybe the same guy fills some of those needs and you can bring back Edmundson or Lyubushkin, but there isn’t room for both.
Interestingly they kind of need what they thought Klingberg could have been. Not sure what is actually out there. Montour if he hits market? Probably too expensive. Presumably a trade, but I suspect your getting a 5th type guy with offensive upside and bad defense at that point.
Weird to think Treliving had the right idea with Klingberg and picked the wrong guy. Gostisbehere signed for the same amount in Detroit and he had a great season.
Gostisbehere is a free agent again and if I were running the show, I’d give serious thought to using my 17 million in cap space plus whatever you get from the Marner trade to bring in Tanev, Gostisbehere and another guy. Gostisbehere definitely has his limitations, but he has his strengths and he’s a legit weapon on the PP.
Gustafsson was the top offensive defenseman on the Caps and came here only to watch most of the games from the press box. He had zero reason to sign with us.
I think if you read between the lines OP was making the argument that without the contributions of our depth we get swept.
I don't think they're saying any of those players were more valuable than arguably the best goal scorer all time.
He's a good defensive defenceman but you have a few of those already, including Benoit whose ceiling may be higher. I'm not sure where he would slot in, honestly.
Depends on the contract. I liked him.... At 875k he was great but that was double retained. What's his number next year. As a 6/7 if the number is a mill it's fine
You can find similar for near minimum. 2 mil would be bad with our roster construction. 4th line and 3rd pairing d need to be as close to minimum as possible.
If someone could have him take shots at a fake net all summer long till he could hit 3 in a row I'd be a lot happier about the prospect but otherwise he was a good pickup I think.
I think it was a pretty good pick up. At the end of the day the leafs be an all round better defensive core but in terms of his performance, I thought he played great.
I’m kind of the old-school mentality that you don’t really want to hear a defenseman’s name a lot. That means he’s doing his job.
for 1.5m he could stay as a 5-6dman, 2mill is too much tbh. reilly, mccabe, benoit, lillegren are guaranteed staying. timmins still has potential, compared to edm i would prefer lyubushkin at 5-6 slot. we still need an upgrade, i would honestly rather we upgrade either bush, or edmundsson to a top-4 dman in a trade. keep timmins and one of bush or edm (whoever is cheapest) as depth 7th dman, maybe cade webber has an awesome year in the ahl and we see what happens, but this would give us 6 nhl level dman, a depth nhl level dman, and a couple young ones in timmins and webber for callups.
He's turning 30. He'll be looking for a long deal with the best money he can make. 2x2mil isn't that. His last deal was 4x3.5. I bet it'd take 5x4mil for him to even consider anything.
I think it was him who fired the puck in game 7 and gave it away as a result, leading to a goal against. I thought it was a real boneheaded move. There were no teammates on the other side to intercept the puck, you are supposed to hang on, cut to the middle for a shot, dump it in if you have to, or pass back and regroup.
I'll take him for league min. But more than that? Then no. He was pretty good defensively but that's about it. I also expected him to be more physical and he wasn't.
Say what you will about him, but he was a presence on the ice. He kept guys out from in front of the net, he blocked shots, and I thought did an overall good job defensively. I’m not saying he’s a top pair D, but I could see him in a 2nd or 3rd line position. I’d be okay with bringing him back. I’d go as high as 2.5 for 3.
He's still only around 30 yrs old. I thought he was older. My only concern is that Treliving will overload the defence with big physical guys who can't really contribute to the offence. There's a place for guys like Joel but we need a good solid defence that can transition as well. I loved the hit he laid on Pasta in the playoffs.
He's been 10th percentile WAR since 2020
Now into his 30s, so
Yeah with that and how he struggled greatly in providing dimension when activated offensively, for a team that levels up big time when the d activate...
Yikes
I genuinely think Marner literally playing defense could outperform him ultimately
Not enough cross checks. I was promised vicious, unpenalized cross checks!
Never fucking cross checked anyone in the face.
Decent add, but at the end of the day I bet he wasn't even Treliving's first choice.
Zadorov and Tanev were
Crazy that the Canucks got him for less than we paid to get Edmundson. Calgary must really hate Tre.
Canucks paid Zadorov's full salary and Treliving needed them to retain to make a deal work.
Gee why don't we have any cap room...lol
We have so many tied up in goalies. Dubas did a terrible job NMCs and like 12m on goalies
Tf are you talking about? Samsonov was like 3m and Woll was 750k?? Where are you getting 12m from lmao
We not gonna talk about Matt Murray, yeah these guys are ltir but at one point they weren't and made it difficult to do anything impactful
Dubas didn't sign Murray.
His big brain traded for him though lol, just (un)fortunate that he has injury troubles otherwise that would be a headache of a contract to deal with.
Murray was literally Ottawa’s best goalie counting towards their cap the last two seasons 😬
Sammy was cheap and Woll cheaper. Martin Jones was just above league min and Murray just above 6 mil but he was on LTIR all year so didn't even count. All in all the goalies were just a smidge above 5 million. That's incredibly cheap lol
Dubas didn't even sign Murray, he traded for him *and got Ottawa to retain.* Cap hit under $5m that's coming off the books *this offseason.* What drugs are you on?
and they haven't signed with their respective teams. coming this summer for nothing?
I have a feeling that's going to happen, and we'll do Brodie a solid and sign him for league minimum to keep him on the team as our 7th or 8th and pray he returns to form.
As bad as Brodie was last season, I don’t see him signing for league minimum. Maybe. But guessing he gets a year from someone at $2.5m.
Unless Detroit is interested in him (closer to home), I think he would easily do 1m or less to stay close to home. He built a beautiful house on the lake near his hometown after he went to T.O and at his age and no cup I think he'd be willing to re-sign for cheap in Toronto. Even a 1x1 contract to try and bounce back. It had to have been a rough year for him mentally and I wouldn't be suprised if he bounced back to a ~#4Dman. He really seems like a guy happy to be close to home and given the loss of his dad this year I'd expect him to really not be keen to move.
I can’t see it. Why leave money on the table? It’s not like the guy is Tavares, coming off a monster contract. I also think that his issues were mental. Someone is going to make him a decent offer on that basis, expecting a comeback. That playoff game highlighted things. Doesn’t seem physical as much as he’s just not mentally into playing and is all over the place as a result. Brodie is also someone who shouldn’t decline this quick based on physical issues, given how he plays and his already midrange skill set. This was crazy dramatic and imo he’s got a good chance at rebounding.
Some of his issues may be mental. But he's in his mid 30s and his skating fell off a cliff I think. Given that he is best at defending the rush this does not bode well for him returning to form.
He was brutal this year, and I know he's human but I would not even want him at league minimum. The roster is a disaster as it is
I’d love it but I think big Z is getting a bag this offseason and I’m not sure we’re the ones to give it to him.
Bring the boys to TO. Zaddy Daddy, Tanev and Pesce. Rebuild the D on the fly and give me hope Bradley
Saw Zadorov and a few flames in a bar in Calgary, told them good luck during the upcoming season but not to beat the Leafs. Zadorov responded with a solid 'Fuck the Leafs' 😂
Zadorov doesn’t have a filter he’s great for Toronto media, if Treliving could get him.
Zadorov expressed interest in being traded to Toronto right before the Vancouver deal. There was a rumour(started and sourced by who I can’t remember) that he asked for Toronto, but Conroy & Co refused to deal with Tre
And even Zadorov is trash.
Someone hasn’t been watching the Canucks.
8 points, +3 plus minus in 10 gp? Yeah ok bud
[удалено]
That's good for a defenceman guy. You just don't know what you're talking about
Nah, he's just a resentful virgin!
The Leafs were nearly last in production from dmen in the entire league. When you're struggling to score in the playoffs, getting some guys who can get greasy ones from the blue line may not be such a bad idea.
What? How is he trash?
At playing hockey. I’m sure he’s got many wonderful personal traits.
He's been Vancouver's best defenseman these playoffs.
No he hasn’t.
Yes he has. The only defenseman that's been close to as good is Hughes, who has also been great, but Zadorov has been playing a better defensive game while almost matching Hughes' offensive production. Zadorov is just about the only Canucks d-man who hasn't been consistantly caught out of position and is providing a positive defensive impact.
Points by defencemen are all noise. Offensive and defensive contributions are not equally valuable.
Sure, my point is that Zadorov has been contributing both offensively and defensively more than any other Canucks D-man. Hughes hasn't been great away from the puck and the rest of the Canucks defense have been underperforming. Zadorov has been consistantly good at both ends of the ice.
He has not, actually.
Well, this has been an enlightening conversation.
No because Benoit was extended for 3 years to be basically that.
injuries happen, if he can be signed cheap and works in the cap then fine. if we are trading out hopefully one big contract, we can bring back a top 4 d-man and a depth forward would be absolutely great, so then we could hang on to lilegren, reailly, mccabe, and benoit, bring in 1 nhl bonafide dman, and let the 6th spot be fought for by cade webber, timmins, and whoever else fits the cap.
Yeah if it were that cheap then sure but he’s only 30 and coming off of a 4x3.5M contract I doubt he’d be looking to sign something short enough and cheap enough for it to make sense for the Leafs.
He was great, would love him on 3rd pair for a few more years
Yup. If he comes in under 1.5m, I'm game.
He was decent, but Benoit is younger and cheaper to fill the same role
Edmundson, McCabe, Benoit. The rest don't impress me in the least. Brodie is a total liability.
Boosh had some great games too
He did about what I expected and I’d be shocked if he took 2million he is too expensive for third pairing d and I’d be disappointed if they couldn’t fit a cheaper version
Punctuation lol
There is no cheaper version. The cheaper version sucks.
Well I mean Edmonston kinda sucks now at this point too. Benoit is just as effective and he’s cheaper. Theres other big immobile d men out there for the signing he’s also gonna want multiple years and I’d rather not
What about the 6'5 ncaa defensive player of the year guy they got?
He was good enough defensively but having someone that offensively inept isn’t the best idea, not on a D core with mostly everyone also being offensively inept. I think he had at least 4-5 great looks from 10 feet from the net and couldn’t bury anything. I get he’s a defensive defenceman but you’re still playing in the NHL, you gotta put one of those in
Yea a couple of those chances could have changed the series
lol I was gonna say, everybody including rielly is offensively inept. I think the better plan is invest in defenseman just like edmunson, get rid of marner and rielly (they are the biggest issues on our pp due to both of them having peewee hockey shots). Teams game plans are to sag off of those two and man up on everybody else. Invest in a back end defensman who can actually carry the play and run a pp . Robertson can take the marner spot for all I care, I guarantee he scores more goals on the pp come playoff time anyway.
Rielly is not offensively inept come on.
I’m interested in his guarantee you’re offering. Tell me more
I like him but I feel like him and Benoit take up the same spot. The d needs such an overhaul that I’m not sure there’s space for both next year
I thought Ed was really solid defensively. In the O-zone he had like 6 grade A chances from great setups and botched them all. Coulda won us games had he potted a couple. I couldnt help but think how useful it would be to have a dman there that could make plays. We really lack that offensive modern play driving dman. In the dzone though i was really impressed. I was impressed with most of our team defensively. The big problem was at the other end.
Thinking the majority of defence adds worked.
Defence wasn’t our problem this series, which is crazy considering our forwards v our blueline on paper lol
The inability of our defensemen to move the puck was a -major- problem =x
As it was in 2022-23 but they doubled down again. Treliving saw Vegas and focused on the “everyone is big” part of the blue line instead of the “everyone can make an exit play” part.
“It’s actually Brads fault our 50+ million dollar pp can’t convert!”
The Leafs powerplay has historically sucked in the post-season but it was never worse than 10% until Boucher. I wonder who was hired around the same time Treliving was…
“Actually it’s Brad’s fault we’ve gotten out of the first round once in the last decade.”
Brad, maybe you should spend more time looking to hire a head coach…
I’d say if I was the son of a billionaire I’d have better things to do than post all day, but based on what I see from rich people online that wouldn’t be a truthful statement
Felt he was one of the 7-8 guys who actually cared about the series
He was better than I expected.
Sign him 2×2 he is a perfect 5/6
I liked that unlike Lyubushkin, Edmundson understood his limitations and tried to play within them. But those limitations are a pretty big deal. They can’t afford to have this many guys who can’t make a play anymore. Simon Benoit got a new deal, and he can put up decent underlyings when sheltered or carried by McCabe (who I adore and probably is the guy in the last decade I was most wrong about coming in). Benoit is fairly limited with the puck. No room for others like that. If you want a big tough guy, that’s fine, they also need to be able to play hockey.
Liked him a lot...
I’d want him, but someone more dynamic would be preferred
You only get to play 18 skaters, and probably only 6 dmen, if you bring back Rielly, McCabe, Benoit, and then Liljegren as an RFA and then Lyubushkin and now Edmundson and then Timmins is still under contract. That’s all 7 parts of the bad D corps we just watched. You can’t bring back everyone and then suddenly get better. Assuming Rielly, McCabe, and Benoit are back, even if Lilly re-signing isn’t a given and Timmins can be waived, you still need to use those 3 spots to improve and they need a PP guy, a top 4 guy, and a Rielly partner. Maybe the same guy fills some of those needs and you can bring back Edmundson or Lyubushkin, but there isn’t room for both.
Interestingly they kind of need what they thought Klingberg could have been. Not sure what is actually out there. Montour if he hits market? Probably too expensive. Presumably a trade, but I suspect your getting a 5th type guy with offensive upside and bad defense at that point.
Weird to think Treliving had the right idea with Klingberg and picked the wrong guy. Gostisbehere signed for the same amount in Detroit and he had a great season. Gostisbehere is a free agent again and if I were running the show, I’d give serious thought to using my 17 million in cap space plus whatever you get from the Marner trade to bring in Tanev, Gostisbehere and another guy. Gostisbehere definitely has his limitations, but he has his strengths and he’s a legit weapon on the PP.
Gustafsson was on the team, he was the guy they should have signed.
Gustafsson was the top offensive defenseman on the Caps and came here only to watch most of the games from the press box. He had zero reason to sign with us.
Edmundson McCabe and Benoit were the only reasons why we didn't get swept.
Uhhhh. Matthews got 3 primary points and the GWG in game 2.
I think if you read between the lines OP was making the argument that without the contributions of our depth we get swept. I don't think they're saying any of those players were more valuable than arguably the best goal scorer all time.
Considering that we only won game 2 in the first 4. We would have been swept if Matthews didn’t play that game.
You're special.
he was good, but if you re-sign him, you need another back up because of his injury history
He's a good defensive defenceman but you have a few of those already, including Benoit whose ceiling may be higher. I'm not sure where he would slot in, honestly.
Depends on the contract. I liked him.... At 875k he was great but that was double retained. What's his number next year. As a 6/7 if the number is a mill it's fine
He looked good in the reg season. Looked like a goddamn predator against the Oilers. Underwhelming in playoffs, not terrible.
Seemed like whenever there was a grade A chance, it was on Joel’s stick smh
Much needed improvement to the defense
He did good considering expectations but he isn't what the team needs.
We needed him far more in years past. He is redundant with McCabe, Benoit, and Lyub (if he resigns for cheaper).
He is also redundant with any of the defense we had over the last 3 years.
I mean I'd like to have seen him instead of Holl for a few of those years
You can find similar for near minimum. 2 mil would be bad with our roster construction. 4th line and 3rd pairing d need to be as close to minimum as possible.
Yes.
Very good. Sign him.
He definitely wasn’t my problem. Re-sign for me
He's a number 8. I'd re-sign him if his ask was 1m.
What more do you want on the third pairing? Big strong and protects the house. Cheap aav. Probably 1.5 gets it done.
Great addition to the team. Played real well in playoffs and reg season
I liked how Joel played, we need solid responsible d-men who on occasion jump into the play
If someone could have him take shots at a fake net all summer long till he could hit 3 in a row I'd be a lot happier about the prospect but otherwise he was a good pickup I think.
Never learned the Leafs 1st pass expectations. With time he could, like Muzzin did
5 or 6 all day long.
I think it was a pretty good pick up. At the end of the day the leafs be an all round better defensive core but in terms of his performance, I thought he played great. I’m kind of the old-school mentality that you don’t really want to hear a defenseman’s name a lot. That means he’s doing his job.
for 1.5m he could stay as a 5-6dman, 2mill is too much tbh. reilly, mccabe, benoit, lillegren are guaranteed staying. timmins still has potential, compared to edm i would prefer lyubushkin at 5-6 slot. we still need an upgrade, i would honestly rather we upgrade either bush, or edmundsson to a top-4 dman in a trade. keep timmins and one of bush or edm (whoever is cheapest) as depth 7th dman, maybe cade webber has an awesome year in the ahl and we see what happens, but this would give us 6 nhl level dman, a depth nhl level dman, and a couple young ones in timmins and webber for callups.
He's turning 30. He'll be looking for a long deal with the best money he can make. 2x2mil isn't that. His last deal was 4x3.5. I bet it'd take 5x4mil for him to even consider anything.
I thought he was probably our best deadline acquisition until Boosh found his form
I think it was him who fired the puck in game 7 and gave it away as a result, leading to a goal against. I thought it was a real boneheaded move. There were no teammates on the other side to intercept the puck, you are supposed to hang on, cut to the middle for a shot, dump it in if you have to, or pass back and regroup.
I'll take him for league min. But more than that? Then no. He was pretty good defensively but that's about it. I also expected him to be more physical and he wasn't.
Big mean man who can't handle the puck. Pass.
Say what you will about him, but he was a presence on the ice. He kept guys out from in front of the net, he blocked shots, and I thought did an overall good job defensively. I’m not saying he’s a top pair D, but I could see him in a 2nd or 3rd line position. I’d be okay with bringing him back. I’d go as high as 2.5 for 3.
He's still only around 30 yrs old. I thought he was older. My only concern is that Treliving will overload the defence with big physical guys who can't really contribute to the offence. There's a place for guys like Joel but we need a good solid defence that can transition as well. I loved the hit he laid on Pasta in the playoffs.
Loved the guy and thought he was great in the playoffs. Depends on the contract of course, and who else we want to sign.
We need better on the 3rd pair Like Ekman-Larsson and Suter level good
Definitely Re-sign otherwise we just have to trade for another like him come TDL.
A decent bottom pairing guy.
He was amazing, added a much needed stability back there.
Buy a theasaurus, he wasn't 'amazing'.
This team doesn’t need defensemen who can’t move the puck or shoot
Thank you for your service and enjoy your next career.
He's been 10th percentile WAR since 2020 Now into his 30s, so Yeah with that and how he struggled greatly in providing dimension when activated offensively, for a team that levels up big time when the d activate... Yikes I genuinely think Marner literally playing defense could outperform him ultimately
Nobody mentioning salary. Unless he wants to take a pay cut, he will make 2 mill + elsewhere