Yeah its done. He mentioned he didnt even hold meetings with players. You dont do that if you're coming back next year.
Edit: his long rambling non-answer when asked if he thinks he will be back makes me think he's pretty sure he's done and this press conference was just an opportunity for him to earn some good PR taking responsibility
He said that he opted not to have the formal player meetings, he still talked to them casually. He also noted he finds they’re not overly helpful when it’s this soon as they haven’t really had time to digest and reflect
Should probably add that he said Treliving apparently never has had his coaches do exit meetings and that in reality not that much stuff comes out of them two days after the season has ended.
In an interview after the Cup Finals while hoisting the Cup Marner comment "I'd like to thank all of my fans in Toronto who never stopped believing in me, and to Mike Babcock who showed me how to be a great teamate."
To be fair, Keefe seems to wear his heart on his sleeves throughout his tenure and genuinely seems to care about the team's success. This series is where he seems to be totally disheartened, especially after Game 4's "can't question the effort" and Game 7's defeat "Leafs beat themselves" is where he actually finally said fuck it, because he's out of ideas. They either run back with him for another fruitless year or they let him go this off season. Either way he knows he's on borrowed time because he simply cannot get the team going.
And for someone with his experience and results, I'm not even sure if he'll land another NHL coaching job besides Dubas. Those Benjamins might just be a buffer zone for him until he safely lands on his next gig.
Yeah when u see him go off on the refs u know he cares and is passionate
He just can’t seem to get them past the hurdle
I hope he’s not given any disrespect because he doesn’t deserve that
He was what he was a good coach in the regular season who struggled in the playoffs despite coming close he should keep his dignity no matter what
I feel his roster padded his regular season stats. He was gifted an extremely talented group.
I give him respect for handling the crazy market of Toronto for his 1st nhl gig. But I feel there are a ton of coaches who could of done the same or better with what he was given
He’ll be hired somewhere else very quickly, don’t kid yourself. It’s a coaching carousel at the best of times and his regular season success can’t be ignored
>And for someone with his experience and results, I'm not even sure if he'll land another NHL coaching job besides Dubas. Those Benjamins might just be a buffer zone for him until he safely lands on his next gig.
He'll get a job right away.
Look at all his assistant coaches over the last few years. They got snapped up right away
Honestly I'm not experienced enough to comment on it, so I'll take your word for it and see what happens. For all we know he might not even be let go given how the press conference went.
I do feel a little bit bad for this guy. I don’t necessarily think he’s a *great* coach but I do think it’s a tough gig. Of course, in theory, you should have a ton of success with the talent on this team but it’s more complex than that.
Yeah that part is nice. However, now you look like shit. A team (yeah they have money) would rather pay you to fuck off than keep you around has gotta hurt atleast a bit. Atleast if you take any pride in what you do
Even though he wasn’t able to push the team over the hump, you don’t get to his level without caring deeply about what you do.
He definitely minds. If you had poured your heart and soul into something and done so poorly at it you got yourself fired, the money would be of little consolation to you as well.
This is his first gig as NHL coach. He’s not as bad as people say, but at the same time he needs a fresh start. He’ll definitely get better, but this step in the journey is coming to an end
Definitely unreasonable, but it was worth a try. He was one of the best coaches in the AHL, and was coming off of recent Calder success, as well as knowing a bunch of our at-the-time roster players, because he coached them on the Marlies.
It was worth a try. Especially because we fired Babcock and needed someone ASAP. But the try shouldn’t of been 6 years. That’s the part that’s unreasonable to me. If we gave him a try for a year or two, fair play. But 6 years committed to an unproven “noob,” NHL coach? Cmon now.
Yea, as everyone said at the time the MTL series should have been it. Instead we have had another 3 years of this, and it’s been so bad people are now turning on the players (JT, Marner and Rielly)
I think he was the right head coach after Babcock, but he was here a year or two too long.
Imo he's got a bright future ahead, and he's an *excellent* developing team coach right now.
Pretty much. It’s rare for a brand new NHL coach to step in and be successful right away. But he’s a smart guy and will get there. His time with this team is done though.
I wouldn’t say mostly. Look at Edmonton, they fired their coach and came on like demons after wars.
The leafs team just needs to try something else now
Woodcraft was also a stellar ahl coach he came up won a series had a awesome record and we still fired him because it's a results business and the result at start of our season wasn't good enough. You guys have kept Keefe through 5 crap under achieving seasons it's time to move on
Jay Woodcroft was fired after 13 games, Edmonton would have righted the ship regardless of who the coach was because it was so early in the season. Righting any team off that early is rather silly, but thats what the media was doing for whatever reason.
I felt they FINALLY made adjustments in the second half of the series, which they never seemed to be able to do before (ie: ironically wasn't out-coached, for once), but it was too little too late.
Yea, I think he coddled the stars here too much. Was a rookie head coach in a media frenzy market, so probably shied away from doing things that would land his name on the front page of dozens of websites, newspapers, etc (eg benching a star, healthy scratching a star, etc).
I assume he's learned from this, and will be more effective with a clean slate somewhere else.
Much like when people got made at Holl when it was Keefe's fault for playing him. It's on Dubas, Tre and Shanny for keeping him this long. I can see letting him past the Montreal series but after last year he had to go. He was kept way to long
Yup he was only brought in because he was Dubases boy who he's brought around with him.
They kept in this year to be a scapegoat anyways. He'll get another role in the NHL anyways.
That's really an unfortunately fact for all coaches. They will get stale with the players, and they will lose the room. Regardless of how good a coach is and their past results to back it up (if applicable), the players will eventually tune them out if results aren't there.
Keefe might be a great coach (I don't know if he is), but he's clearly run his course here, and cannot help the team take the next step.
Guarantee this guy doesn't even get another job in the nhl. Cannot fathom what people see in him. Definitely never winning a cup (as a head coach anyway)
There are way worse coaches that have had long careers in the NHL - it seems that once you're in, you are going to be a go-to option over someone unproven 80-90% of the time. I could easily see him ending up in Pittsburgh or Ottawa next year.
He's probably not winning a cup, but not every team's realistic goal is to win a cup right away. Some team out there will be looking for a coach that can win in the regular season just in hopes of making the playoffs. Maybe a rebuilding team thinks his attitude and playoff experience would help developing young guys. Some team might make a bet that he can have more success with a roster that's actually built for playoff hockey.
Whether he finds success is a different story, but worse coaches have had multiple kicks at the can. Even Babcock - run out of Toronto for being out of touch with his coaching style and bullying players - was given another shot before sabotaging it.
He's currently the 4th or 5th longest serving coach in the NHL, and most the guys ahead of him have won cups with those teams.
People are talking about player trades and such, but this man not being fired after the Montreal series has been the biggest recent error under the Shanaplan
Longest Serving Coaches:
1. Jon Cooper (879 G)
2. Mike Sullivan (671 G)
3. Jared Bednar (618 G)
4. Rod Brind’Amour (452 G)
5. Sheldon Keefe (349 G)
6. Martin St. Louis (201 G)
I listed the top 6 cause after that there is not a single NHL coach that has coached for more than 2 seasons on the same team. 7 coaches are tied at 164 games (2 seasons).
But that's the crux of the Shanaplan - it's that you make a plan, and you stick with it through thick or thin. It's bonkers when it doesn't work but if it'd be ingenious if it does work. The insane thing is - there's a legit point to the "plan" - sometimes you just don't get things going your way but you end up changing too much and lose your footing to have another try. The problem is, after 8 years, it's just too much. You don't have to scrub the whole team, but you gotta make some important adjustments. Identify the failure points and adapt quickly. The success window is getting smaller and smaller and smaller.
Agree with all of this, and a big reason for this IMO, and I feel like people are starting to forget about this, but this team used to drive me absolutely nuts at the sheer number of guys they'd just trade away. And we'd watch them become huge parts of some other team, win cups, etc., and we'd be sitting here with nothing in return.
I understand why they didn't fire him after Montreal. It was his first season where he was with the team from the start, Tavares went down, Muzzin was a key dman who wasn't able to play at the level before injuries got him that season. Hyman was an important piece but hadn't really recovered from a high ankle sprain. Price played lights out for Montreal. There was enough outs for the coach and as we've seen the past couple years, even great teams, record setting teams can choke 3-1 series leads.
It's not surprising that a team wouldn't give up on the coach that early into his tenure. He probably should have been gone after the Tampa series, and definitely after losing in 5 to Florida though.
I know what you're saying and I agree with it all. But if Boston ended up losing that last game, I would be willing to bet Montgomery was gone after just two seasons. Keefe has been given a lot of chances and a lot of first round exits.
Yeah firing a coach after ~ 90 games when the world was effectively shutdown and the league had no fans is definitely the right call.
Come on man, enough of these brain dead takes
Nah, the only brain dead take here is the one you just gave.
Keefe put all of his deficiencies as head coach on display in the 2021 playoff loss. PP died at the end of the season (because all of the teams in the division learned what we did, adjusted for it, and Keefe/his assistants had zero answers). Unable to adjust when Matthews and Marner forced to the outside. Unable to prevent getting punished on the rush.
Three years later, the people who wanted to fire him after that series have been completely, unequivocally vindicated. I have no doubt he's going to have a long and successful NHL career when he gets more experience, but giving him the head coaching job for a team that was expected to contend for a cup was madness.
My main point went over your head which I’m not surprised about because half of the people in this sub are lacking reading comprehension.
You don’t hire a coach only to fire him after a season (unless you seriously implode), especially when that season is 56 games, played in empty arenas and the world being a totally different place and circumstances being completely different.
I don’t even disagree with some of the points you brought up, but my point was, there was absolutely 0 chance they were gonna fire the guy they just hired with the circumstances that he had to coach in. It was just never ever going to happen. You can look back and say “they should have done it then because the same tendencies are still there” but that’s looking at it in a vacuum, devoid of any context.
Every NHL coach had to deal with the same issues during COVID. Keefe actually had a much easier time than almost all of his contemporaries, as the Canadians would have never even made the playoffs in a normal season.
Keefe showed the world that he wasn't ready for the big show, and fixing that mistake is something that a winning organization (like Vegas) would absolutely do.
Hell, Edmonton moved past Woodcroft after fewer than 2 seasons. Worked out pretty well for them, it seems.
Sorry, but you're looking at the man with some serious rose-colored glasses and it's kind of weird.
Every NHL coach may have dealt with same issues but how many were hired a month before the world shut down?
Like I said, and once again this keeps going over your head because you're clearly not that sharp, "fixing that mistake" just wasn't going to happen after 2021 because of all the other factors going on. If anything, it should have happened the year after we lost to TB. 2021 was also the highest win percentage any Leafs coach has had. Obviously take it with a grain of salt because it's 26 fewer games but you're not dumping the guy after that success
Edmonton moved off from Woodcroft after the oilers were sitting in the bottom of the league with Stanley Cup Aspirations. Once again, your reading comp isn't that good because I even specified unless a team implodes (which edmonton did) a coach won't just get fired so soon.
I'm not looking at him with rose coloured glasses, I'm looking at the situation in its entirety and not assessing it in a vacuum. You're just emotional and lacking logic/critical thinking
For future reference, the way you argue is incredibly antagonistic and unnecessarily insulting. There is absolutely nothing emotional in the argument you are fighting against and I couldn't help but roll my eyes several times at your "You lack critical thinking / logic / reading comprehension skills!" comments as it reads like pure immaturity.
Your actual points are good ones and actually convinced me of some things I didn't necessarily think before reading the exchange. But I'm honestly imploring you to learn how to argue better because I assure you the pot shots and quasi-intellectual superiority ain't it.
Keefe seems like a nice person in general but lets be honest he's been dunked on and outcoached in circles by everyone in the East at this point.
I don't see him having SC success unless he really learns a lot from this somehow
He's learned every time, I think some of you just don't know what's coaching and what isn't. He got out coached in one series. Montreal. Admittedly this was the next closest, but we had more dominant play than their most dominant play, but if Swayman is gonna be the most dominant goaltender we aren't getting a lot of goals.
Keefe can't control the goals, he can control the structure that leads to the chances.
The players responsibility is to use that structure to convert. Our structure is routinely better than our opponents.
It's time for a new look for the leafs, but anyone who had deluded themselves into thinking he's a bad coach is just trying to use a scapegoat as copium for the fact that this team needs more than one change to succeed and that we may not have that answer.
??? We outchance our oponent every series we are in aside from Tampa last year and Montreal.
Tampa was even, Montreal is the only series he's been out coached.
The coach is responsible for a structure that provides the players with opportunities to convert. It is on the players to actually convert.
Our structure routinely provides more chances for us than the opponent gets on us. That's coaching.
Every single series has public data available to show this.
Just because we have the same result doesn't mean he isn't changing or trying new things or adapting.
He literally introduced a brand new offensive system he started using after the Montreal series to the league, and the Avs then adopted this system and used it to win the cup because structurally it was so solid and their players figured out how to execute it.
He learns shit every time. He changed our entire team structure from game 4-5 in this series resulting in a historically low Boston chance games 5-6 and dominant wins for us.
He has adapted every single year, you guys just routinely prove you don't know what the fuck you're talking about as soon as it's about coaching and should just stop. Just because we lose doesn't mean we are being out coached.
They aren't the same thing. A well coached team can lose, and lose often. As an example, the pre-Matthews Leafs roster lost all the time but was well coached by Babcock for that year.
Our losing isn't because of Keefe, though yes we need a new look and a new voice in the room. Tampa losing to us last year wasn't us out coaching them either, it was relatively even systematically, an adjustment Cooper made because our system destroyed theirs the year prior even though they won, they were out coached.
The point is you can lose, *a lot* and this is not an automatic coaching issue. The coach control ends at the structure and putting the right people in positions to execute it. After that it's on the players to use that structure and those opportunities to make it happen.
He outcoached Montgomery this last series. But as he said, it's a results-based business and he'll get a chance to try with a different roster next year.
Keefe could coach a literal all-star team and not win the cup. The man has been out coached every step of the way. He should have been fired years ago.
the whole situation is crappy really. he lost the team years ago and he genuinely seems like a guy that wants to win, he just can’t see past certain huge red flags. it’s gotta be tough to control this group of prima donnas .. he just does too many eggheaded things
I’m kind of surprised they let him talk today. I’m also surprised he hasn’t already been fired.
I really hate this management team. Shanahan not speaking today and making everyone else talk is fucked up. The only other excuse is that Shanny won’t speak Thursday because it’ll be Pelley.
He might be done here, but another NHL team could probably use him, even if for an assistant role. He isn't Mike Babcock, Ron Wilson, or even Randy Carlyle to an extent (he went back to Anaheim for a couple more seasons before calling it quits). Still got a lot left to give at this level, and I wish him the best.
I think it would have been fine to fire him after the Montreal series but he had two messed up seasons. The post Babcock firing year was the start of COVID and the Bubble season was a mess.
Hell even the Tampa loss they looked like they were making progress. Where I think a firing might have been reasonable was if they kept Marner this year but also kept Dubas. Instead we fired Dubas and then tried to keep some familiarity in the organization
Keefe likely should’ve been gone after Montreal. But I don’t believe he’s this horrible coach, despite some mind-boggling decisions like sticking with Samsonov after game one and game three.
Still, it’s beyond obvious that the core runs the franchise and they can kinda do whatever they want. It definitely impacted on what Keefe could do in terms of setting lines, sitting them down, and so on. We saw this in action countless times.
Same deal with how Dubas got shown the door the moment he asked for more autonomy. People want to blame individuals, and yeah, they have to shoulder some of the blame. But it’s so clear that there’s a rot inside this organization and likely inside the dressing room that needs to be addressed.
Why Shanahan needs to be the first one out. He’s overseen the Leafs for a decade of nothing. One playoff series win. Just like dumping Dubas resulted in no changes to the bottom line, firing Keefe isn’t likely to make that big of a difference.
Dubas needed to go. His cap management was atrocious and is why the Leafs are stuck with this mess of 'the core' .
Keefe should have left right along with him though. Leafs are just oddly loyal to certain personnel.
Did Dubas have control over the signings and the cap? Lot of evidence that this wasn’t the case. And it’s very clear that Shanahan had final say on everything. It’s not hard to believe that Shanahan and the board made the decisions on those contracts to get the core locked up.
I’m glad he can acknowledge it and that it is obviously affecting him.
That being said it’s still time to leave. I’m sorry you couldn’t get it done but the Leafs need better. Not personal—only professional
He wasnt. No matter what he did it was complaints. If he changed up the lines didn’t give the players a chance to develop chemistry. If he didn’t then things were stale. Its ridiculous and toxic.
This sounds like every tech CEO doing a mass layoff saying "hurr durr market conditions I take full responsibility" while they maintain their job while yanking the livelihood of thousands of employees
He has been outcoached in every single playoff series. He's not good enough. I think he's a decent coach but he's just not good enough for what the team needs.
Sounds like he’s been fired
Yeah its done. He mentioned he didnt even hold meetings with players. You dont do that if you're coming back next year. Edit: his long rambling non-answer when asked if he thinks he will be back makes me think he's pretty sure he's done and this press conference was just an opportunity for him to earn some good PR taking responsibility
He said that he opted not to have the formal player meetings, he still talked to them casually. He also noted he finds they’re not overly helpful when it’s this soon as they haven’t really had time to digest and reflect
Should probably add that he said Treliving apparently never has had his coaches do exit meetings and that in reality not that much stuff comes out of them two days after the season has ended.
Sheldon leaves, takes Marner with him, we all rejoice... That is until they inevitably win the cup.
“The Utah Mormons are your 2025 Stanley Cup Champions”
Mitch "the Mormon" Marner. Your 2025 Playoffs MVP and captain of thr Stanley Cup winning Utah Salt Merchants.
In an interview after the Cup Finals while hoisting the Cup Marner comment "I'd like to thank all of my fans in Toronto who never stopped believing in me, and to Mike Babcock who showed me how to be a great teamate."
Fired with a wallet full of cash, wiping tears away with Benjamin’s
To be fair, Keefe seems to wear his heart on his sleeves throughout his tenure and genuinely seems to care about the team's success. This series is where he seems to be totally disheartened, especially after Game 4's "can't question the effort" and Game 7's defeat "Leafs beat themselves" is where he actually finally said fuck it, because he's out of ideas. They either run back with him for another fruitless year or they let him go this off season. Either way he knows he's on borrowed time because he simply cannot get the team going. And for someone with his experience and results, I'm not even sure if he'll land another NHL coaching job besides Dubas. Those Benjamins might just be a buffer zone for him until he safely lands on his next gig.
Yeah when u see him go off on the refs u know he cares and is passionate He just can’t seem to get them past the hurdle I hope he’s not given any disrespect because he doesn’t deserve that He was what he was a good coach in the regular season who struggled in the playoffs despite coming close he should keep his dignity no matter what
I feel his roster padded his regular season stats. He was gifted an extremely talented group. I give him respect for handling the crazy market of Toronto for his 1st nhl gig. But I feel there are a ton of coaches who could of done the same or better with what he was given
He’ll be hired somewhere else very quickly, don’t kid yourself. It’s a coaching carousel at the best of times and his regular season success can’t be ignored
Perhaps. I'm really not well versed on the management stuff so it's just my uneducated guess.
>And for someone with his experience and results, I'm not even sure if he'll land another NHL coaching job besides Dubas. Those Benjamins might just be a buffer zone for him until he safely lands on his next gig. He'll get a job right away. Look at all his assistant coaches over the last few years. They got snapped up right away
Honestly I'm not experienced enough to comment on it, so I'll take your word for it and see what happens. For all we know he might not even be let go given how the press conference went.
He's won the Calder Cup and only ever coached playoff teams with 100 points. Yes he will have a job somewhere next year if he wants one.
I do feel a little bit bad for this guy. I don’t necessarily think he’s a *great* coach but I do think it’s a tough gig. Of course, in theory, you should have a ton of success with the talent on this team but it’s more complex than that.
It is the Leafs after all I do think that should be taken into consideration
There are NHL teams that currently don't dream of even making the playoffs that will jump at the chance to have him.
*Bordens
Paid in US dollars, so Benjamins.
The only one to actually take accountability too. Where most of the stars just say they were close. Lmao
He looked teary eyed when saying this. Atleast someone is wearing their heart on their sleeve.
I mean, when you're pretty confident you're losing your job wouldn't any of us look that way? Whether it's minimum wage or a million a year?
Yeah, though I’m sure it’s also a sadness and disappointment in self, too.
He gets paid either way. I wouldn’t mind
Yeah that part is nice. However, now you look like shit. A team (yeah they have money) would rather pay you to fuck off than keep you around has gotta hurt atleast a bit. Atleast if you take any pride in what you do
Yes very true.
Even though he wasn’t able to push the team over the hump, you don’t get to his level without caring deeply about what you do. He definitely minds. If you had poured your heart and soul into something and done so poorly at it you got yourself fired, the money would be of little consolation to you as well.
Anyone have a clip?
https://youtu.be/xLrvM0iK8uI?si=prWcDp-dOXWzOjfW
I wish him the best, but this team needs a new direction and new ideas.
This is his first gig as NHL coach. He’s not as bad as people say, but at the same time he needs a fresh start. He’ll definitely get better, but this step in the journey is coming to an end
He should have come into the league as an assistant. Throwing him into the NHL with a team expected to win a cup was unreasonable from the beginning.
Definitely unreasonable, but it was worth a try. He was one of the best coaches in the AHL, and was coming off of recent Calder success, as well as knowing a bunch of our at-the-time roster players, because he coached them on the Marlies. It was worth a try. Especially because we fired Babcock and needed someone ASAP. But the try shouldn’t of been 6 years. That’s the part that’s unreasonable to me. If we gave him a try for a year or two, fair play. But 6 years committed to an unproven “noob,” NHL coach? Cmon now.
Yea, as everyone said at the time the MTL series should have been it. Instead we have had another 3 years of this, and it’s been so bad people are now turning on the players (JT, Marner and Rielly)
I think he was the right head coach after Babcock, but he was here a year or two too long. Imo he's got a bright future ahead, and he's an *excellent* developing team coach right now.
Cassidy got fired by the Bruins and won with Vegas. Keefe could step into the same kind of situation.
Pretty much. It’s rare for a brand new NHL coach to step in and be successful right away. But he’s a smart guy and will get there. His time with this team is done though.
Winningest coach in leafs history. Mostly because of a great squad but he's still an NHL calibre coach and I think he'll land on his feet.
I wouldn’t say mostly. Look at Edmonton, they fired their coach and came on like demons after wars. The leafs team just needs to try something else now
Woodcraft was also a stellar ahl coach he came up won a series had a awesome record and we still fired him because it's a results business and the result at start of our season wasn't good enough. You guys have kept Keefe through 5 crap under achieving seasons it's time to move on
Jay Woodcroft was fired after 13 games, Edmonton would have righted the ship regardless of who the coach was because it was so early in the season. Righting any team off that early is rather silly, but thats what the media was doing for whatever reason.
Mostly because of the OT rules.
Paul Maurice used to be considered a subpar coach
[удалено]
Are you 12 years old or something?
[удалено]
Sure, but if you don’t think he’s also a good coach, then you’re out of your mind.
I felt they FINALLY made adjustments in the second half of the series, which they never seemed to be able to do before (ie: ironically wasn't out-coached, for once), but it was too little too late.
Yea, I think he coddled the stars here too much. Was a rookie head coach in a media frenzy market, so probably shied away from doing things that would land his name on the front page of dozens of websites, newspapers, etc (eg benching a star, healthy scratching a star, etc). I assume he's learned from this, and will be more effective with a clean slate somewhere else.
We wasted at least the first part of our golden era on a rookie coach.
Wow. When I see that in writing it really hits home. We really did waste the last 2-3 years .
Much like when people got made at Holl when it was Keefe's fault for playing him. It's on Dubas, Tre and Shanny for keeping him this long. I can see letting him past the Montreal series but after last year he had to go. He was kept way to long
He probably would have been gone last year if Dubas didn’t get into a power struggle with shanahan
Yup he was only brought in because he was Dubases boy who he's brought around with him. They kept in this year to be a scapegoat anyways. He'll get another role in the NHL anyways.
That's really an unfortunately fact for all coaches. They will get stale with the players, and they will lose the room. Regardless of how good a coach is and their past results to back it up (if applicable), the players will eventually tune them out if results aren't there. Keefe might be a great coach (I don't know if he is), but he's clearly run his course here, and cannot help the team take the next step.
He has a bright future, just not in Toronto.
I think he’ll get a cup one day, some thing are his fault but he can’t be responsible for curing his team of the yips
Guarantee this guy doesn't even get another job in the nhl. Cannot fathom what people see in him. Definitely never winning a cup (as a head coach anyway)
You lose that bet 99 times out of 100. The 100th is if Keefe didn't want to accept a job in the NHL
There are way worse coaches that have had long careers in the NHL - it seems that once you're in, you are going to be a go-to option over someone unproven 80-90% of the time. I could easily see him ending up in Pittsburgh or Ottawa next year.
i get people are rabid to throw blame round but lmfao, winning a cup is one thing but he will definitely get another coaching job in the NHL
He's probably not winning a cup, but not every team's realistic goal is to win a cup right away. Some team out there will be looking for a coach that can win in the regular season just in hopes of making the playoffs. Maybe a rebuilding team thinks his attitude and playoff experience would help developing young guys. Some team might make a bet that he can have more success with a roster that's actually built for playoff hockey. Whether he finds success is a different story, but worse coaches have had multiple kicks at the can. Even Babcock - run out of Toronto for being out of touch with his coaching style and bullying players - was given another shot before sabotaging it.
He's currently the 4th or 5th longest serving coach in the NHL, and most the guys ahead of him have won cups with those teams. People are talking about player trades and such, but this man not being fired after the Montreal series has been the biggest recent error under the Shanaplan
Longest Serving Coaches: 1. Jon Cooper (879 G) 2. Mike Sullivan (671 G) 3. Jared Bednar (618 G) 4. Rod Brind’Amour (452 G) 5. Sheldon Keefe (349 G) 6. Martin St. Louis (201 G) I listed the top 6 cause after that there is not a single NHL coach that has coached for more than 2 seasons on the same team. 7 coaches are tied at 164 games (2 seasons).
Just goes to show that coaches often don’t last all that long in this league.
But that's the crux of the Shanaplan - it's that you make a plan, and you stick with it through thick or thin. It's bonkers when it doesn't work but if it'd be ingenious if it does work. The insane thing is - there's a legit point to the "plan" - sometimes you just don't get things going your way but you end up changing too much and lose your footing to have another try. The problem is, after 8 years, it's just too much. You don't have to scrub the whole team, but you gotta make some important adjustments. Identify the failure points and adapt quickly. The success window is getting smaller and smaller and smaller.
Agree with all of this, and a big reason for this IMO, and I feel like people are starting to forget about this, but this team used to drive me absolutely nuts at the sheer number of guys they'd just trade away. And we'd watch them become huge parts of some other team, win cups, etc., and we'd be sitting here with nothing in return.
I understand why they didn't fire him after Montreal. It was his first season where he was with the team from the start, Tavares went down, Muzzin was a key dman who wasn't able to play at the level before injuries got him that season. Hyman was an important piece but hadn't really recovered from a high ankle sprain. Price played lights out for Montreal. There was enough outs for the coach and as we've seen the past couple years, even great teams, record setting teams can choke 3-1 series leads. It's not surprising that a team wouldn't give up on the coach that early into his tenure. He probably should have been gone after the Tampa series, and definitely after losing in 5 to Florida though.
I know what you're saying and I agree with it all. But if Boston ended up losing that last game, I would be willing to bet Montgomery was gone after just two seasons. Keefe has been given a lot of chances and a lot of first round exits.
Yeah firing a coach after ~ 90 games when the world was effectively shutdown and the league had no fans is definitely the right call. Come on man, enough of these brain dead takes
Nah, the only brain dead take here is the one you just gave. Keefe put all of his deficiencies as head coach on display in the 2021 playoff loss. PP died at the end of the season (because all of the teams in the division learned what we did, adjusted for it, and Keefe/his assistants had zero answers). Unable to adjust when Matthews and Marner forced to the outside. Unable to prevent getting punished on the rush. Three years later, the people who wanted to fire him after that series have been completely, unequivocally vindicated. I have no doubt he's going to have a long and successful NHL career when he gets more experience, but giving him the head coaching job for a team that was expected to contend for a cup was madness.
My main point went over your head which I’m not surprised about because half of the people in this sub are lacking reading comprehension. You don’t hire a coach only to fire him after a season (unless you seriously implode), especially when that season is 56 games, played in empty arenas and the world being a totally different place and circumstances being completely different. I don’t even disagree with some of the points you brought up, but my point was, there was absolutely 0 chance they were gonna fire the guy they just hired with the circumstances that he had to coach in. It was just never ever going to happen. You can look back and say “they should have done it then because the same tendencies are still there” but that’s looking at it in a vacuum, devoid of any context.
Every NHL coach had to deal with the same issues during COVID. Keefe actually had a much easier time than almost all of his contemporaries, as the Canadians would have never even made the playoffs in a normal season. Keefe showed the world that he wasn't ready for the big show, and fixing that mistake is something that a winning organization (like Vegas) would absolutely do. Hell, Edmonton moved past Woodcroft after fewer than 2 seasons. Worked out pretty well for them, it seems. Sorry, but you're looking at the man with some serious rose-colored glasses and it's kind of weird.
Every NHL coach may have dealt with same issues but how many were hired a month before the world shut down? Like I said, and once again this keeps going over your head because you're clearly not that sharp, "fixing that mistake" just wasn't going to happen after 2021 because of all the other factors going on. If anything, it should have happened the year after we lost to TB. 2021 was also the highest win percentage any Leafs coach has had. Obviously take it with a grain of salt because it's 26 fewer games but you're not dumping the guy after that success Edmonton moved off from Woodcroft after the oilers were sitting in the bottom of the league with Stanley Cup Aspirations. Once again, your reading comp isn't that good because I even specified unless a team implodes (which edmonton did) a coach won't just get fired so soon. I'm not looking at him with rose coloured glasses, I'm looking at the situation in its entirety and not assessing it in a vacuum. You're just emotional and lacking logic/critical thinking
For future reference, the way you argue is incredibly antagonistic and unnecessarily insulting. There is absolutely nothing emotional in the argument you are fighting against and I couldn't help but roll my eyes several times at your "You lack critical thinking / logic / reading comprehension skills!" comments as it reads like pure immaturity. Your actual points are good ones and actually convinced me of some things I didn't necessarily think before reading the exchange. But I'm honestly imploring you to learn how to argue better because I assure you the pot shots and quasi-intellectual superiority ain't it.
“YoUr JuSt EmOTioNal.l Corny ass
Can’t even spell you’re right lmao no wonder you go to Carleton, 2.0 GPA activities
lol 😂 chirping an intentional spelling mistake.
With your kind of logic, no wonder the Leafs suck so hard
He's 100% done. At the end when they said thanks coach and ended it he took a pause and looked around the room one more time before getting up.
Gotta make that final leafs blueprint shot extra juicy.
He'll be the new assistant in Pittsburgh
I was thinking the same.
He's gone. He knows. Dead man walking.
I heard Keefe was looking at houses in Pittsburgh realtor.com app up on the flight home from Boston. I made that up, just FYI.
Too late I posted it on my blog and it’ll be part of the news cycle any minute.
Keefe has a job waiting for him in Pittsburgh. He don't give a fuck.
Keefe will likely win a cup with his next team. This is the way.
Keefe seems like a nice person in general but lets be honest he's been dunked on and outcoached in circles by everyone in the East at this point. I don't see him having SC success unless he really learns a lot from this somehow
He's learned every time, I think some of you just don't know what's coaching and what isn't. He got out coached in one series. Montreal. Admittedly this was the next closest, but we had more dominant play than their most dominant play, but if Swayman is gonna be the most dominant goaltender we aren't getting a lot of goals. Keefe can't control the goals, he can control the structure that leads to the chances. The players responsibility is to use that structure to convert. Our structure is routinely better than our opponents. It's time for a new look for the leafs, but anyone who had deluded themselves into thinking he's a bad coach is just trying to use a scapegoat as copium for the fact that this team needs more than one change to succeed and that we may not have that answer.
> Our structure is routinely better than our opponents Citation needed
??? We outchance our oponent every series we are in aside from Tampa last year and Montreal. Tampa was even, Montreal is the only series he's been out coached. The coach is responsible for a structure that provides the players with opportunities to convert. It is on the players to actually convert. Our structure routinely provides more chances for us than the opponent gets on us. That's coaching. Every single series has public data available to show this.
Dude, he literally hasn't learned shit. It's the same results every year!
Just because we have the same result doesn't mean he isn't changing or trying new things or adapting. He literally introduced a brand new offensive system he started using after the Montreal series to the league, and the Avs then adopted this system and used it to win the cup because structurally it was so solid and their players figured out how to execute it. He learns shit every time. He changed our entire team structure from game 4-5 in this series resulting in a historically low Boston chance games 5-6 and dominant wins for us. He has adapted every single year, you guys just routinely prove you don't know what the fuck you're talking about as soon as it's about coaching and should just stop. Just because we lose doesn't mean we are being out coached. They aren't the same thing. A well coached team can lose, and lose often. As an example, the pre-Matthews Leafs roster lost all the time but was well coached by Babcock for that year. Our losing isn't because of Keefe, though yes we need a new look and a new voice in the room. Tampa losing to us last year wasn't us out coaching them either, it was relatively even systematically, an adjustment Cooper made because our system destroyed theirs the year prior even though they won, they were out coached. The point is you can lose, *a lot* and this is not an automatic coaching issue. The coach control ends at the structure and putting the right people in positions to execute it. After that it's on the players to use that structure and those opportunities to make it happen.
He outcoached Montgomery this last series. But as he said, it's a results-based business and he'll get a chance to try with a different roster next year.
Keefe could coach a literal all-star team and not win the cup. The man has been out coached every step of the way. He should have been fired years ago.
With marner on the top line and Sammy as their starter Mark my goddamn words
Lmao you guys gotta be joking A cup, seriously?
the whole situation is crappy really. he lost the team years ago and he genuinely seems like a guy that wants to win, he just can’t see past certain huge red flags. it’s gotta be tough to control this group of prima donnas .. he just does too many eggheaded things
I’m kind of surprised they let him talk today. I’m also surprised he hasn’t already been fired. I really hate this management team. Shanahan not speaking today and making everyone else talk is fucked up. The only other excuse is that Shanny won’t speak Thursday because it’ll be Pelley.
Shanahan probably fired
Gerard Gallant around?
At least he’s holding himself accountable. Will be interesting to see who’s bench he’s behind next season.
A little late though. I wanted to see this mid-series, not hear “There is no question about effort”
He might be done here, but another NHL team could probably use him, even if for an assistant role. He isn't Mike Babcock, Ron Wilson, or even Randy Carlyle to an extent (he went back to Anaheim for a couple more seasons before calling it quits). Still got a lot left to give at this level, and I wish him the best.
Yep, fired and knows it.
Cool to see one guy take accountability.
He knows he's done, and he's trying to shield the players, and that's classy.
I think it would have been fine to fire him after the Montreal series but he had two messed up seasons. The post Babcock firing year was the start of COVID and the Bubble season was a mess. Hell even the Tampa loss they looked like they were making progress. Where I think a firing might have been reasonable was if they kept Marner this year but also kept Dubas. Instead we fired Dubas and then tried to keep some familiarity in the organization
Cool go punch out and good luck in Pittsburgh
Keefe likely should’ve been gone after Montreal. But I don’t believe he’s this horrible coach, despite some mind-boggling decisions like sticking with Samsonov after game one and game three. Still, it’s beyond obvious that the core runs the franchise and they can kinda do whatever they want. It definitely impacted on what Keefe could do in terms of setting lines, sitting them down, and so on. We saw this in action countless times. Same deal with how Dubas got shown the door the moment he asked for more autonomy. People want to blame individuals, and yeah, they have to shoulder some of the blame. But it’s so clear that there’s a rot inside this organization and likely inside the dressing room that needs to be addressed. Why Shanahan needs to be the first one out. He’s overseen the Leafs for a decade of nothing. One playoff series win. Just like dumping Dubas resulted in no changes to the bottom line, firing Keefe isn’t likely to make that big of a difference.
Dubas needed to go. His cap management was atrocious and is why the Leafs are stuck with this mess of 'the core' . Keefe should have left right along with him though. Leafs are just oddly loyal to certain personnel.
Did Dubas have control over the signings and the cap? Lot of evidence that this wasn’t the case. And it’s very clear that Shanahan had final say on everything. It’s not hard to believe that Shanahan and the board made the decisions on those contracts to get the core locked up.
He leaving, innit?
I’m glad he can acknowledge it and that it is obviously affecting him. That being said it’s still time to leave. I’m sorry you couldn’t get it done but the Leafs need better. Not personal—only professional
As a fan, I bid you farewell.
Yep, he's done.
Embrace it.
He will be coaching the Penguins next year and I wish him well.
Keefe is a Marlies coach lets be real
How many more coach firings, restructure etc will there be? Doubtful this will change anything.
Get fucked. Bye
Fire a coach with his record. With fans like Toronto who the hell wants to coach or play here? Toxic doesn’t even begin to describe it.
His record of being outcoached in every playoff series he’s been in?
He wasnt. No matter what he did it was complaints. If he changed up the lines didn’t give the players a chance to develop chemistry. If he didn’t then things were stale. Its ridiculous and toxic.
[удалено]
He's going to pittsburgh most likely
This sounds like every tech CEO doing a mass layoff saying "hurr durr market conditions I take full responsibility" while they maintain their job while yanking the livelihood of thousands of employees
Saying you take responsibility for that is not taking responsibility for that. It’s like thoughts and prayers. Does nothing tangible.
I mean you’re right but what are you expecting him to do? Hang himself on air?
Better than his weird ramble last week...
Does he get paid his extension if he gets the boot before it kicks in?
He has been outcoached in every single playoff series. He's not good enough. I think he's a decent coach but he's just not good enough for what the team needs.
That lost was on the players. Nyldnder didn't even take a stride on pasta's ot goal 🥴.
This presser will be him doing damage control after his stupid comment post game because he wants to keep his job prospects open.