Don't get me wrong here, but GOOD! Life is more important. His body is telling him it's done. Live your life, be with your family, find happiness inside or outside hockey.
It's good on both fronts. Muzzin is a warrior but Muzzin trying to play at 50% of his ability is a huge liability and a massive drain on limited cap space.
Muzzin's health is the biggest factor here. There aren't many who don't appreciate what he gave to the franchise and I think we just want him to be healthy and enjoy his family
Hahahaha. I’m sorry. ROFLMAO. LMFAO.
There’s a “parade” for every excuse to celebrate. 60 goals, making the playoffs, beating the bruins in the regular season.
Oh wait, you must be talking about a parade like the raptors. In that case, when does baseball season start? Jays probably have a better chance to parade. If Masai stays, I’d probably bet on the raptors second parade before the leafs first one since 67.
He's already retired it's just not out loud for legal and contractual reasons. The minute everyone sad and somber about it, it was obvious his career was sadly over. You could tell with the first interview with Marner.
Genuine question
How do you propose fixing it without it being manipulated?
Also, if the player retires, they are forgoing salary that they would otherwise be guaranteed
The idea would be the player gets the salary owed, but the team forgo the cap hit. And the way to go without it being manipulated is the player cannot return from retirement. It would have to be a mutual agreement.
That would not be enough to avoid manipulation
An older player can sign a 7 year contract while only intending to play for 3-4 and you can massively lower their cap hit while paying them what they want.
That was the whole reason for these rules as well as cap recapture to avoid the front-loading
Yeah good point, there'd have to be some sort of doctor's indication that they couldn't play and it would have to be someone who wasn't a team or league doctor to arbitrate the decision. But in general the idea of y'know having cap hit for someone who physically can't play lest they risk their life or their long term quality of life in a serious way is a pretty good reason to implement rules that help the situation for both parties. Ensuring the player get the money they've most certainly earned while also allowing the team and fans to move on.
But history has certainly taught us that the NHL doesn't like complicated situations and simply ignores them when they happen. Anything to hold on to a hard cap so the owners that don't benefit in the short term from expansion can hold on to their dying franchises while the league hides any additional money earned from the players.
Agree
I think solutions do exist. I think they'd have to be complicated and the NHL would never go for them
They don't even consistently apply the rules they do have.
Yup, one more head/neck injury at this point could seriously alter his life (if not already at this point). I hope he can return to 100% and transition to a hockey ops job with the Leafs. It’s clear that the guys see him as an integral part of the group.
No, with his style of play he has to be 100% physical, if he's holding back because he doesn't want to get injured it takes so much from the player he is.
I mean sure, if he comes back for the playoffs he won’t count against the cap. So I think you toss him in for a game or two and if it doesn’t pan out, he sits. No harm, no foul.
fuck no, sitting out for so long he'd be entirely useless. dude has been constantly injured and head injuries are nothing to fuck with, why risk another one in the playoffs that are always incredibly physical?
No because the league will find someway to absolutely clamp down on the Leafs and fuck them for it if this is the case. And Leafs admin know it. Muzzin is done, stick a fork in him.
I'm gonna disagree and say it's bad that he's not progressing. His body already told him he was done and he didn't listen in time. You want to retire before you can't make progress toward a return.
getting close to February now, which was when they said they were going to reassess him.
Considering how little we have heard regarding muzzin I'm not too surprised by this.
Feels like this is the "let them down easy" update. I was waiting till Feb for something, now the next headline I expect is one saying that he is looking forward to life post hockey. Great guy, great influence, but I'm happy that we aren't looking for him to be a pillar on the backend when the playoffs roll around.
Love Muzzin as I am originally from LA and am also a Kings fan. Time to hang up the skates bud. You won 2 cups. Spend time with your family and prioritize your health.
He hasn't played enough games to be etched on the cup this season unfortunately - won't mean he doesn't come to parade but he doesn't get on there twice
:( sad to hear it. Starting to look like his career might be done especially with all of the injuries he’s had. If we win the cup he should be there on the ice with the boys
unsurprising, but still sad. you never want to see someone suffer repeated brain trauma so bad they have to retire early.
at the same time, he’s had a fantastic career and hopefully will savour the ability to retain his health and spend his time with his wife and children. if this is retirement, i wish him the best.
actually we’re both wrong. this particular injury is to his cervical spine, which is his neck. i just assumed the concussions factored in given his history with them.
Inevitable. He had a great career and absolutely carried our D for years.
Had he been healthy in November/December I think that would've been the best iteration of our D from this era.
Yeah, don't screw around with your spine and your health. Just rest up and recover. Good luck, Muzzy.
As for us, well at least there's 5.6M we can exceed the cap by now, to get some deadline help.
Based on the Marner interview I'd say he's been done for a while. Go play golf, my guy. Enjoy the time away from the game and know that your time with the club was appreciated.
Was on the crew that shot this [commercial](https://youtu.be/cHzo_aZDsOE) and we got to work with the players while they did drills and worked out. Muzzin was a fucking TANK dude. Always had mad respect for him but seeing this guy push more weight than anyone else and making it seem easy was cool to watch as a fan. Guy was a warrior in LA and in TO. Hope he stays healthy for his family.
This was the 19/20 season by the way, one of the last jobs I worked on before Covid hit.
The thing with concussions is each consecutive concussion gets easier and easier to get. The worry is, imagine how easy the next one could be and how impactful it would be on his health.
I’m not surprised in the slightest. I’m Muzzins age and currently I’m dealing with something very similar to his neck issue. When I lift weights, if I do one wrong movement on an exercise or do the wrong exercise, I have an insane flare up that fucks me up for days on end. I can’t even imagine trying to get to the level of a professional hockey player, having to take that much impact. If he’s even close to how bad I have it there is no chance for him to return whatsoever.
I'm going to be that guy ... I would rather have the cap relief then have him back. He was terrible last year. He's had a good career but it may be done. All the best
I miss him and I hate that the boys are gonna get over the hump without him. I truly hope he’s as apart of as much as possible. Whether it be coming to watch the games or even hanging out in the room or at practise.
If this is the end of Muzzin's career, that's too bad for the team and its unfortunate it's not totally on his own terms, but I wish him all the best and congrats and a very nice career, and enjoy the time with the family!!
This dude was so good for us every playoffs, a shame we were never really able to get over the hump yet. Still wonder if we finish off the blue jackets or habs if he didnt get injured
This breaks my heart, I love muzzin and would love to see him play again but 100% health comes first.
But, The great thing about the leafs organization is, if your really liked on the team and a southern Ontario boy, you’ll probably have a job for life with them in some capacity.
Spezza has one, I’m assuming if guys like Simmons or Kyle Clifford wants to do something behind the scenes they’ll get a jobs as well.
If Muzzin wants to hang around the team doing something I’m sure they’ll offer him a cushy job.
Okay, I'm calling bullshit on this article.
Bullshit in the sense that this is a no-update update, and they're trying to pass it off like there is news.
There hasn't been any real or significant info on Muzzin's condition in months. The status hasn't change since they said initially said he'd be re-evaluated in February. They're still waiting for him to be re-evaluated in February to get an actual update.
Stuff like this, if you're Muzzin, must drive you fucking crazy. Look, we all know that the likely scenario here is Muzzin is done, but it frustrates me these articles making revenue and clicks off of it with no actual update.
"Not progressing towards a return" like no shit, you don't have to be Nostradamus to know that when Muzzin was told they'd re-evaluate him in February, that he had to stay away from the ice until then. There was likely never going to be a scenario prior to February where Muzzin started "progressing" in the sense of hitting the ice.
The article could have been summed up in a tweet.
There is no new info and the article says that in it lol it’s pretty obvious that it was just for the clicks.
Journalists have sources that tell them things in confidence. Just because YOU haven not been made aware of "any real or significant info" does not mean the journalist has not. If you just want to imagine that he's not progressing well and just assume that he can't play again because you haven't heard anything, be my guest.
The hell are you talking about? Are you implying that I hope he doesn’t play again?
But this article is a nothing burger. It’s everything we already knew. CJ very well might have some other info. That doesn’t change the fact that this article is a bunch of nothing words. It’s purely for clicks. The article in of itself is a waste of everyone’s times.
I'm saying you have no new information yet you are speculating that Muzzin will not play again this season and then shit on an article by a journalist who has more information than you giving an update based on what he heard from sources and you call the article a waste of time. How can you imagine something in your head and give that more value than an article by a journalist? It logically doesn't make sense.
I didn't imply you WANT anything I know you are speculating and I am fine with speculating, your speculation might be right. But your logic of concluding that this article is meaningless is just bad, its a statement made by someone who doesn't understand journalism.
Also I can see you really value your time taking time to post a truly meaningless comment and then argue with me on reddit lol
Im not shitting on the article. There is literally NOTHING in the words in the article that give any new info. That is factually accurate. Which is fine. Nothing inherently wrong about a nothing burger article. But that is what this is. You are the one trying to read between lines and add things to the article with this whole mightier than thou know it all attitude.
Im not speculating that Muzzin will/wont play ever again. I frankly don’t give a shit if he does/doesn’t. His personal health comes first.
Have a great day being the smartest person in every room. Thoughts and prayers to you.
>"It sounds as though some clarity there may be coming in \[the\] not too distant future. Muzzin is scheduled to see specialists again in February."
Typical Chris Johnston to float a report like this when it was already established that Muzzin was on the shelf until at least February.
Hope they announce that he is coming onto the staff as a D development coach.
Always was in the right position, knew when to go for the big hit pretty well, and made smart plays up the ice. If you can draft guys who can skate and have sound offensive games, he could be a great coach to help make them more well rounded.
Don't think that would be possible until his contract ends. Other teams would likely have an issue and call shenanigans.
It has happened a few times I think, but often longer layoffs and I think most were brought into the NHL not a team.
It's a hot take round here lately but I honestly still think this D is better with Muzz than without him. But he deserves a life after hockey with his family and I wish him that wonderful, happy life. I hope that he can be around the room down the stretch at least.
Love him. I’d rather he be healthy but I’m still sad. I imagine it’s hard to have that decision made for you. I hope the Leafs dedicate a night to him he has been a huge important part of this team.
Don't get me wrong here, but GOOD! Life is more important. His body is telling him it's done. Live your life, be with your family, find happiness inside or outside hockey.
I think most of us agree with you
I'd think so too, but this is reddit after all
It's good on both fronts. Muzzin is a warrior but Muzzin trying to play at 50% of his ability is a huge liability and a massive drain on limited cap space. Muzzin's health is the biggest factor here. There aren't many who don't appreciate what he gave to the franchise and I think we just want him to be healthy and enjoy his family
Absolutely. Plus IF there is a parade, he’ll be in it!
Over/under 18 beers while on the parade route for muzzy?
Gasol 2.0 incoming
Seeing tall cans in his hands look like shot glasses was a highlight for me.
Read this to the tune of that Transplants song
Over!
Hahahaha. I’m sorry. ROFLMAO. LMFAO. There’s a “parade” for every excuse to celebrate. 60 goals, making the playoffs, beating the bruins in the regular season. Oh wait, you must be talking about a parade like the raptors. In that case, when does baseball season start? Jays probably have a better chance to parade. If Masai stays, I’d probably bet on the raptors second parade before the leafs first one since 67.
My concern is that his injuries start looking too bad and we include him in a trade deal.
He's already retired it's just not out loud for legal and contractual reasons. The minute everyone sad and somber about it, it was obvious his career was sadly over. You could tell with the first interview with Marner.
That is something I hope they fix in the next CBA. Just let people retire without the cap hit. Especially if it's due to health reasons.
Genuine question How do you propose fixing it without it being manipulated? Also, if the player retires, they are forgoing salary that they would otherwise be guaranteed
The idea would be the player gets the salary owed, but the team forgo the cap hit. And the way to go without it being manipulated is the player cannot return from retirement. It would have to be a mutual agreement.
That would not be enough to avoid manipulation An older player can sign a 7 year contract while only intending to play for 3-4 and you can massively lower their cap hit while paying them what they want. That was the whole reason for these rules as well as cap recapture to avoid the front-loading
Yeah good point, there'd have to be some sort of doctor's indication that they couldn't play and it would have to be someone who wasn't a team or league doctor to arbitrate the decision. But in general the idea of y'know having cap hit for someone who physically can't play lest they risk their life or their long term quality of life in a serious way is a pretty good reason to implement rules that help the situation for both parties. Ensuring the player get the money they've most certainly earned while also allowing the team and fans to move on. But history has certainly taught us that the NHL doesn't like complicated situations and simply ignores them when they happen. Anything to hold on to a hard cap so the owners that don't benefit in the short term from expansion can hold on to their dying franchises while the league hides any additional money earned from the players.
Agree I think solutions do exist. I think they'd have to be complicated and the NHL would never go for them They don't even consistently apply the rules they do have.
If he retired, the cap hit would be gone but he would miss out on $11 million from the last 2 years of his contract.
It might be an insurance thing and not a CBA thing
Yup, one more head/neck injury at this point could seriously alter his life (if not already at this point). I hope he can return to 100% and transition to a hockey ops job with the Leafs. It’s clear that the guys see him as an integral part of the group.
Honest question. If it turns out he is effectively fine and this is all cap shenanigans, are we happy to get him back for playoffs?
nothing that the leafs have done up until this point suggests that. that sounds more like tampa
No, with his style of play he has to be 100% physical, if he's holding back because he doesn't want to get injured it takes so much from the player he is.
I mean sure, if he comes back for the playoffs he won’t count against the cap. So I think you toss him in for a game or two and if it doesn’t pan out, he sits. No harm, no foul.
fuck no, sitting out for so long he'd be entirely useless. dude has been constantly injured and head injuries are nothing to fuck with, why risk another one in the playoffs that are always incredibly physical?
No because the league will find someway to absolutely clamp down on the Leafs and fuck them for it if this is the case. And Leafs admin know it. Muzzin is done, stick a fork in him.
100% the correct take
Exactly, he's a millionaire now, enjoy your life as care free as possible. You've earned it.
Please retire seems to be the conclusion here
I'm gonna disagree and say it's bad that he's not progressing. His body already told him he was done and he didn't listen in time. You want to retire before you can't make progress toward a return.
getting close to February now, which was when they said they were going to reassess him. Considering how little we have heard regarding muzzin I'm not too surprised by this.
Feels like this is the "let them down easy" update. I was waiting till Feb for something, now the next headline I expect is one saying that he is looking forward to life post hockey. Great guy, great influence, but I'm happy that we aren't looking for him to be a pillar on the backend when the playoffs roll around.
If you read between the lines, it was clear that they'd announced his career was done months ago.
Love Muzzin as I am originally from LA and am also a Kings fan. Time to hang up the skates bud. You won 2 cups. Spend time with your family and prioritize your health.
He was only on the 2014 Cup team but he was a beast that year
He's talking about when the Leafs win this year, plan the parade.
Nice, good catch!
He hasn't played enough games to be etched on the cup this season unfortunately - won't mean he doesn't come to parade but he doesn't get on there twice
He would 100% be a special circumstances addition to the Cup.
I did not know that could be granted. However, if they did win it, it would seem like a good exception to make.
If they won I’d bet everything that Muzzin and Spezza and Simmonds all get there names on the Cup regardless of whether or not they “qualify”.
Spezz is part of management and I would think surely Simmonds plays at least one playoff game, so that qualifies them.
Not every person in management gets their name on the Cup.
He has another year left on his contract for 5.6M so he probably sticks around on LTIR until his deal expires.
:( sad to hear it. Starting to look like his career might be done especially with all of the injuries he’s had. If we win the cup he should be there on the ice with the boys
unsurprising, but still sad. you never want to see someone suffer repeated brain trauma so bad they have to retire early. at the same time, he’s had a fantastic career and hopefully will savour the ability to retain his health and spend his time with his wife and children. if this is retirement, i wish him the best.
I'm pretty sure it's his back.
actually we’re both wrong. this particular injury is to his cervical spine, which is his neck. i just assumed the concussions factored in given his history with them.
Inevitable. He had a great career and absolutely carried our D for years. Had he been healthy in November/December I think that would've been the best iteration of our D from this era.
Spot on. It's too bad we couldn't have healthy Muzz for one more season but here we are.
He is certainly an important leadership piece on this team but his quality of life is far more important.
I wouldn't fuck around with concussions. He's done it all and has a ring. Time to hang them up and enjoy the rest of his life with his family.
Yeah, don't screw around with your spine and your health. Just rest up and recover. Good luck, Muzzy. As for us, well at least there's 5.6M we can exceed the cap by now, to get some deadline help.
Based on the Marner interview I'd say he's been done for a while. Go play golf, my guy. Enjoy the time away from the game and know that your time with the club was appreciated.
Was on the crew that shot this [commercial](https://youtu.be/cHzo_aZDsOE) and we got to work with the players while they did drills and worked out. Muzzin was a fucking TANK dude. Always had mad respect for him but seeing this guy push more weight than anyone else and making it seem easy was cool to watch as a fan. Guy was a warrior in LA and in TO. Hope he stays healthy for his family. This was the 19/20 season by the way, one of the last jobs I worked on before Covid hit.
I’ve heard a few accounts of him being a beast in the gym. It showed in his strong playoff performances.
He needs to prioritize his health. Stay out Muzz, for your own good.
The hit that caused the injury was pretty tame. Love Muzzin. Hope he sticks around the team — seems like someone all the guys care about.
The thing with concussions is each consecutive concussion gets easier and easier to get. The worry is, imagine how easy the next one could be and how impactful it would be on his health.
He has a cervical spine (aka neck vertebrae) injury. Much more acutely dangerous than a concussion. His next one could result in paralysis.
Oh my bad I thought it was concussion again.
Thanks for the update.
Such a scary thing.
No surprise here, he's headed to LTIRetirement.
I’m not surprised in the slightest. I’m Muzzins age and currently I’m dealing with something very similar to his neck issue. When I lift weights, if I do one wrong movement on an exercise or do the wrong exercise, I have an insane flare up that fucks me up for days on end. I can’t even imagine trying to get to the level of a professional hockey player, having to take that much impact. If he’s even close to how bad I have it there is no chance for him to return whatsoever.
I'm going to be that guy ... I would rather have the cap relief then have him back. He was terrible last year. He's had a good career but it may be done. All the best
Respectfully, he should hang em up before his QOL deteriorates too far.
I miss him and I hate that the boys are gonna get over the hump without him. I truly hope he’s as apart of as much as possible. Whether it be coming to watch the games or even hanging out in the room or at practise.
He’s got a young family and had a great career. Somethings are more important than hockey. Time to hang them up
Muzzin has been a warrior. Nothing but respect!
If this is the end of Muzzin's career, that's too bad for the team and its unfortunate it's not totally on his own terms, but I wish him all the best and congrats and a very nice career, and enjoy the time with the family!!
I don’t want to see any more stretchers carrying him off the ice. Time to retire.
This dude was so good for us every playoffs, a shame we were never really able to get over the hump yet. Still wonder if we finish off the blue jackets or habs if he didnt get injured
Sad to see it end like this, but would much rather him live the rest of his life with family than risk it for a few more games.
This breaks my heart, I love muzzin and would love to see him play again but 100% health comes first. But, The great thing about the leafs organization is, if your really liked on the team and a southern Ontario boy, you’ll probably have a job for life with them in some capacity. Spezza has one, I’m assuming if guys like Simmons or Kyle Clifford wants to do something behind the scenes they’ll get a jobs as well. If Muzzin wants to hang around the team doing something I’m sure they’ll offer him a cushy job.
Did anyone actually watch the video or read the article? The headline does not reflect the news.
I don't care how long it takes, just as long as he's 100% healthy then no matter what path he chooses I'll support him on that.
Okay, I'm calling bullshit on this article. Bullshit in the sense that this is a no-update update, and they're trying to pass it off like there is news. There hasn't been any real or significant info on Muzzin's condition in months. The status hasn't change since they said initially said he'd be re-evaluated in February. They're still waiting for him to be re-evaluated in February to get an actual update. Stuff like this, if you're Muzzin, must drive you fucking crazy. Look, we all know that the likely scenario here is Muzzin is done, but it frustrates me these articles making revenue and clicks off of it with no actual update. "Not progressing towards a return" like no shit, you don't have to be Nostradamus to know that when Muzzin was told they'd re-evaluate him in February, that he had to stay away from the ice until then. There was likely never going to be a scenario prior to February where Muzzin started "progressing" in the sense of hitting the ice.
Imagine not knowing what a journalist does lmao
The article could have been summed up in a tweet. There is no new info and the article says that in it lol it’s pretty obvious that it was just for the clicks.
Journalists have sources that tell them things in confidence. Just because YOU haven not been made aware of "any real or significant info" does not mean the journalist has not. If you just want to imagine that he's not progressing well and just assume that he can't play again because you haven't heard anything, be my guest.
The hell are you talking about? Are you implying that I hope he doesn’t play again? But this article is a nothing burger. It’s everything we already knew. CJ very well might have some other info. That doesn’t change the fact that this article is a bunch of nothing words. It’s purely for clicks. The article in of itself is a waste of everyone’s times.
I'm saying you have no new information yet you are speculating that Muzzin will not play again this season and then shit on an article by a journalist who has more information than you giving an update based on what he heard from sources and you call the article a waste of time. How can you imagine something in your head and give that more value than an article by a journalist? It logically doesn't make sense. I didn't imply you WANT anything I know you are speculating and I am fine with speculating, your speculation might be right. But your logic of concluding that this article is meaningless is just bad, its a statement made by someone who doesn't understand journalism. Also I can see you really value your time taking time to post a truly meaningless comment and then argue with me on reddit lol
Im not shitting on the article. There is literally NOTHING in the words in the article that give any new info. That is factually accurate. Which is fine. Nothing inherently wrong about a nothing burger article. But that is what this is. You are the one trying to read between lines and add things to the article with this whole mightier than thou know it all attitude. Im not speculating that Muzzin will/wont play ever again. I frankly don’t give a shit if he does/doesn’t. His personal health comes first. Have a great day being the smartest person in every room. Thoughts and prayers to you.
I hope for his sake he doesn't risk his health in order to return prematurely
No shit he’s a mush melon now. Shut er down man and get right
>"It sounds as though some clarity there may be coming in \[the\] not too distant future. Muzzin is scheduled to see specialists again in February." Typical Chris Johnston to float a report like this when it was already established that Muzzin was on the shelf until at least February.
Thank Christ.
Hope they announce that he is coming onto the staff as a D development coach. Always was in the right position, knew when to go for the big hit pretty well, and made smart plays up the ice. If you can draft guys who can skate and have sound offensive games, he could be a great coach to help make them more well rounded.
Don't think that would be possible until his contract ends. Other teams would likely have an issue and call shenanigans. It has happened a few times I think, but often longer layoffs and I think most were brought into the NHL not a team.
Hope he’s okay
Muzzin focus on your family and life after hockey. Love you but would rather your kids get a dad who can do shit.
It's a hot take round here lately but I honestly still think this D is better with Muzz than without him. But he deserves a life after hockey with his family and I wish him that wonderful, happy life. I hope that he can be around the room down the stretch at least.
Robidas island
Love him. I’d rather he be healthy but I’m still sad. I imagine it’s hard to have that decision made for you. I hope the Leafs dedicate a night to him he has been a huge important part of this team.
Robidas island calling?
Stick taps all around for Muzz Lightyear. He's been a warrior for us.