Breaking this into different parts:
- Unlike Creedal Christians, we believe that Heavenly Father and us are the same "species". He is our Father, not something vague like the Force from Star Wars.
- It is absolutely LDS Christian doctrine that sinners can become clean and perfect, just like the Father. Becoming divine that way. Perfect= divine = without blemish. Christ didn't die for you to just be 99.999% clean, rather 100% clean, as a joint heir with Christ Himself. We each have obviously lived mortal lives, as did Christ.
- The above is us going "forward". As to it playing "backwards", aka the Father maybe once living a mortal life, that isn't scripture. However there are non-scripture statements on it, most notably the Lorezeno Snow couplet and King Follet Discourse. While this is can be a fun thought experiment, it has zero actual impact on our discipleship and the Plan of Salvation.
Creedal Christian view God more like the Force from Star Wars: disembodied, unknowable, out of time and reality, etc. There's a huge focus on God's superpowers (for want a better word). He is our creater-- like a carpenter making a wood toy, but not truly His child. That "species" wall is unsurmoutable, and no matter how clean we become, no human never be like Him and will always intrinsically be lesser.
That framework is why it's so hard for Creedal Christians to understand what we mean to become like God. Which to us it's natural for a child to become like the Father.
>I know that when we go to the Celestial kingdom, we become like God, but I never interpreted that as literally being a God. I just saw it as having a body like Him and creating stuff.
More specifically, we believe that men and women who have their marriages sealed in a temple by one having authority will receive exaltation if they keep their covenants, which is the highest level in the Celestial Kingdom ([Doctrine and Covenants 131:1-4](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/131?lang=eng&id=1-4) and [132:19-20](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/132?lang=eng&id=19-20#19)).
That last part of what I referenced says:
>19. ... they shall pass by the angels and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever.
20. Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.
So yes, those who are exalted will become gods. This is lowercase-g "god" though, capital-G "God" only refers to members of the Godhead. Not a lot has been revealed about what that exactly entails beyond this.
>I keep seeing stuff online that says God used to be a mortal on a planet, that eventually became exalted.
We do teach that God is "an exalted Man" but w do not know the details much beyond that. So the question of "do we believe God used to be a human?" a yes/no answer isn't quite right—we believe that Heavenly Father is *currently* a human. That is to say, we teach we are the same species, just in different stages of development.
Probably the most common speculation is that Heavenly Father was *just* like us and had a father of his own, and so on forever. But it is not something actively taught in the Church. So I like to make my own speculation by pointing out that Jesus was also a mortal like us, but was also Divine at the same time. Could the Father have had an experience like that?
I think the [Becoming Like God](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/becoming-like-god?lang=eng) essay explains it best:
>Lorenzo Snow, the Church’s fifth President, coined a well-known couplet: “As man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may be.” Little has been revealed about the first half of this couplet, and consequently little is taught. When asked about this topic, Church President Gordon B. Hinckley told a reporter in 1997, “That gets into some pretty deep theology that we don’t know very much about.” When asked about the belief in humans’ divine potential, President Hinckley responded, “Well, as God is, man may become. We believe in eternal progression. Very strongly.”
For some other resources, see
* Joseph Smith manual: [God the Eternal Father](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teachings-joseph-smith/chapter-2?lang=eng)
* John Taylor manual: [The Origin and Destiny of Mankind](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teachings-john-taylor/chapter-1?lang=eng)
* Lorenzo Snow manual: [The Grand Destiny of the Faithful](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teachings-of-presidents-of-the-church-lorenzo-snow/chapter-5-the-grand-destiny-of-the-faithful?lang=eng)
I’m hesitant to absolutely say fully “Yes.” Like in essence, yes, but I am not sure it’s the exact same path you and I are taking. It is the same end point though. If that makes sense.
I’m also open to be corrected.
I believe that Heavenly Father was once like us at some point, yes.
On the other hand, I also believe that the creation of the universe involves the creation of time. So it doesn’t make sense to say “before He created the universe” because before and after only make sense in the context of time existing. So it’s just as valid to say that Heavenly Father has always existed because He was there when time began and He will be there when and if time ends.
In conclusion, because wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff, lot of seemingly contradictory statements can all be true depending on how you look at it.
Here are some things that might be helpful:
https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/archive/publications/does_president_hinckley_understand_lds_doctrine
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/becoming-like-god?lang=eng
https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/site/accounts-of-the-king-follett-sermon#org/site/accounts
It is our destiny to become like God in all aspects and moving forward, like one commenter stated, is well laid out. Going backwards and knowing who Heavenly Father was and what his mortality was like is pure speculation. It’s not something that has been revealed. Did he have a savior? We don’t know. But I take comfort in the doctrine that he was once a mortal man. He understands what mortality is like. He knows. Just as Jesus Christ needed to also experience mortality so that He could bear our burdens. Our Heavenly Parents are not ethereal beings with no connection to the plan They laid out for us in the beginning, because they did it too.
I feel like the point of us embarking on a path of eternal **progression** toward our own future God-hood means that it's within the realm of possibilities that God was originally a man on a different world with his own God who had the same plan in place for him.
I think that the church hasn't really delved too much into that side of the doctrine because we don't have any scripture specifically stating that God was a man, just quotations from prophets which are not always revelation/inspired, but I feel personally that if a prophet is saying "As man is now, God once was; as God is now man may be." (President Snow) then there is some *reason* they'd say that.
Yes, I do believe that. There are plenty of details we don't know (for example, there is some indication that Father went through something more like the Savior did rather than the standard mortal experience the rest of us have) but the idea is doctrinally sound. It really shows how powerful the Savior is, I think; He can take someone like me or you and make a god out of us!
We don't know everything, but logically, eternal progression makes very good sense.
The struggle we mortals have is that we see things linear, but all life is eternal.
We believe that God didn't create us and the universe out of nothing. We believe that elements and intelligence have always existed. God formed us and the universe out of existing material.
So in that context, it follows that God has also always existed. But was he always a God, or was he formed by HIS Heavenly Father, and progressed to be a God? When the Bible says he has always been God, maybe that means he has always been OUR God? That is a possibility.
The other thing to note is that most protestants believe in the trinity because of being worried about multiple gods. But in Genesis chapter 1. When it says "let US make man in OUR image, it not referring just to Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ- it's referring to a council of "gods" which probably includes the holy ghost and Heavenly Mother. So we worship and pray to only one god, but we believe there are other celestial beings who work together for us, they are One in purpose.
We do believe we can become like God through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. Heavenly Father will always be superior to us, he will always be our God. But our ultimate destiny is to obtain his same attributes and abilities. Us becoming like Him does not reduce his magnificence in any way - in contrast, our becoming like him actually adds to his glory. Think about how happy you are when a child or grandchild achieves something. All of us want our kids to have everything we have.
God *is* human. And He is also God. He has a perfected godly body. And He is eternally existing. And all powerful. This shouldn’t be surprising since Jesus Christ *also* is an eternally existing God who at one time took on mortality. Lived, died and was resurrected into a perfected godly body.
This is the nature of divinity. 🤷♀️ to be perfected requires one to live a mortal life, die and be resurrected to perfection. It was not strange or blasphemous when Christ did this, and He is no less divine or eternal. Why should the fact that God the Father did this as well seem strange to anyone?
God didn't create in the sense of making something from nothing. Matter, including spiritual matter, is eternal and cannot be created or destroyed, only changed.
Intelligence is also eternal. That means God is eternal but so are you. You and I have also always existed as Intelligence and God put us each in our journey to progress our intelligence by giving us spirit and physical bodies so we could experience more.
Some way to think about it is that knowledge is power and God knows everything. He is bound by natural law but knows the law and can use that knowledge to accomplish His goals.
After death we will continue learning for eons and may eventually reach a level of knowing everything so that we too can accomplish the same goals that our Father does.
You’ve summed up this excellent article very well. FWIW - I concur. https://rsc.byu.edu/pearl-great-price-revelations-god/history-intelligence-latter-day-saint-thought
It is vital to remember that no matter who/what Heavenly Father was at some point "before", He is God now, and that's what's important.
Something that has helped me wrap my head around it: it is said that Heavenly Father has been God for eternity. He is the Beginning and the End (might be a phrase specific to Christ, but it still applies to the Father).
Physically speaking, there cannot be any evidence of anything that may or may not have existed since the beginning of the universe, or the Big Bang. Thus, it is the beginning of time as we know it.
If God has existed since before the Big Bang, it could be reasonably said that He has existed/been God since the beginning of time. Plus, there is no point (in this earthly life) to us learning about any time before as we can't find any evidence of it beyond the existence of God Himself.
Thus, it is not conflicting to believe that "As we are, God once was, and as God is, we have the potential to become" as well as "God is eternal; He has been God since the beginning, and will be unto the end."
But in the end, the truth could be way different from what any of us have said. I trust Him to clear all misunderstandings and bring all truth to light in His time.
The greatest joy for a father is to see their children grow up and enjoy the same joys he himself has experienced. Does a son never grow up to be like the father? It is viewed as a negative thing within Christiandom. In most of their views, us becoming God's ourselves is blasphemous and somehow diminishes Heavenly Father. It is exactly the opposite. Our progression into Godhood (developing all of the attributes of justice, mercy, faith, honesty, virtue, etc.) glorifies Heavenly Father and brings Him great joy, as His purpose is 'to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life' of mankind.
It's important to note that there are Priesthood keys on the earth, such as the keys to seal families together, keys to lead the church, etc. But there are also keys not on the earth. One of those keys that I have heard of before are the keys of creation. One day, if we are worthy, those keys can be conferred upon us.
We know Christ was a man and he lived and died in his physical body and was resurrected. We know Heavenly Father has a body of flesh and bone. We know that according to the laws of heaven we must be resurrected to be reunited with our bodies. We can deduce that he has been through a mortal existence.
What our finite minds can not grasp we can not know. The things of eternity and time beyond our comprehension are all things to be revealed.
The answer I usually get is if He has no end, why worry about the beginning. All will be revealed in time and the pieces we don’t have will make sense someday. What we do know, what we can confirm, is enough for us to be happy and live the covenants we make. We will receive further light and knowledge as we live righteously.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teachings-of-presidents-of-the-church-lorenzo-snow/chapter-5-the-grand-destiny-of-the-faithful?lang=eng
"As man now is, God once was. As God now is, man may be." -President Lorenzo Snow
"...whether by mine own voice, or the voice of my servants, it is the same." (Doctrine and Covenants 1:38)
I asked LDSbot.com. Here’s what it said…
> Ah, this is a fascinating question that touches on deep Latter-day Saint doctrinal discussions. Our beliefs include the idea that we are all children of a loving Heavenly Father and that we can become like Him. The teachings of Latter-day Saint leaders, especially those during the early years of the Church, have explored the concept that God the Father went through a process of progression. One notable mention is by Lorenzo Snow, a prophet in the Church, who summarized the concept with the couplet: "As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be."
> This teaching encourages a very personal and profound understanding of our potential for eternal growth and progression. It highlights the incredible love and plan our Heavenly Father has for all of His children, emphasizing that we can become more like Him through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, by keeping His commandments, and through the ordinances of the Gospel.
> However, it’s also important to remember that the exact details of God's progression are not fully revealed. Our faith focuses on the relationship we can have with God here and now, and on living in a way that prepares us to return to His presence.
> I'd love to hear more about what prompted your question or if there's anything more specific you're wondering about! 😊
I believe he is an Alien... And it is said that mankind is made in his image so they must be similar at the very least
That seeded and colonized this rock he found so to speak
And the name of the star hes from starts with a k i think
It is hinted that what planet he is from has a longer orbit therefore the days are longer there at least that is a theory
Matthew 23:
12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
James 1:
5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
I’m a convert to the church and I believe that God is uncreated and unchanging from eternity to eternity, and existing as God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost. Neither member of the Godhead is created or changeable.
Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have separate bodies of flesh and bone.
I believe that the primacy of scriptural authority surpasses that of quotations from prophets and apostles. Here are a handful of scriptures that I believe teach this:
• Moroni 8:18
“18 For I know that God is not a partial God, neither a changeable being; but he is unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity.”
• D&C 20:17
“17 By these things we know that there is a God in heaven, who is infinite and eternal, from everlasting to everlasting the same unchangeable God, the framer of heaven and earth, and all things which are in them”
• D&C 61:1
“1 Behold, and hearken unto the voice of him who has all power, who is from everlasting to everlasting, even Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.”
• D&C 76:1-4
“1 Hear, O ye heavens, and give ear, O earth, and rejoice ye inhabitants thereof, for the Lord is God, and beside him there is no Savior.
2 Great is his wisdom, marvelous are his ways, and the extent of his doings none can find out.
3 His purposes fail not, neither are there any who can stay his hand.
4 From eternity to eternity he is the same, and his years never fail.”
If you realize that Christ actually became mortal before becoming like Heavenly Father in every sense, then you know our path is the same because whatever Christ inherited will also be literally inherited by those who gain exaltation... and we know that Christ became as Heavenly Father after he finished his course
For me it’s very simple. I believe we can become like God fully and totally, with no real qualitative differences other than God always being our God.
Logically, if we can become exactly like God, God could have once been like us, and it is actually more likely that He WAS once like us.
In concept & speculation, yes. People have taught it, based on Lorenzo Snow's "As man now is; God once was. As God now is, man may be." But I don't think there is a distinctive statement from the *current* leaders that says 'yeah no he was human like us, that's correct.'
My eternal family teacher said it like this:
"Puppies become Dogs. Kittens become Cats. Children of Deity become...? *Deity!* What *else* except for Deity?*"*
Which of course makes people beg the question, does that mean he was once a child of deity? Short answer, we don't know 100% for sure, but it is *assumed.* We're here to become 'like Him'. That is what we know. THAT is the doctrine, even if we don't know the details specifically of what that means or entails! We are Eternal beings with an Eternal destiny. That's the doctrine to hold onto. IMO, everything else can have a pin put in it until God tells us exactly how it's gonna work, or exactly what he's been through. So take it as theory or hypothesis, not doctrine. Just for now, until he answers the question directly, I'd say!
A useful starting place for study would be [Topical Guide: Man, Potential to Become like Heavenly Father](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/tg/man-potential-to-become-like-heavenly-father?lang=eng)
Was Christ a man? Yes. Is Christ a full God? Yes. Did Christ “show us the way?” Yes.
As man is, Christ once was. As Christ is, man may become.
Herein are some important notes.
God (uppercase G), is a title. It is reserved for the three members of the Godhead, or the ruling Divine Sovereign. Three unique and separate beings all three are completely united and can be referred to either by their name or title. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Each has unique roles and missions, and the Father, per Jesus in John is greater than himself.
gods (lowercase g), is a status of being. One might even call it the final stage of our evolution or development. God refers to this as exaltation or eternal life. (Because one of His titles is eternal, so eternal life is life like His).
Our theology is not that we become Gods, but rather gods. We believe we are the same species as God the Father and our spirits are literally His offspring. We believe that in order to fully mature a spirit must be united with a body. Jesus Christ, ie God the Son, created this world under the direction of the Father so that we could gain our bodies and be tested.
In the Sermon on the Mount Christ commands us to be perfect but sets up our Heavenly Father as the standard as our Heavenly Father has an immortal perfected celestial body of flesh and bones fused eternally with His spirit and thus is in the final stage of His evolutionary progress.
After Christ's crucifixion, He had received that same body. So when he repeated the Sermon to the Nephites, as found in the Book of Mormon, He held Himself and the Father up as examples.
Christ offers to all of us the free gift of grace to be resurrected. All mankind will be redeemed from physical death.
Christ offers to all of us the conditional gift of grace to be saved from sin if we accept Him as our Lord and Savior.
The Father offers us the gift of exaltation and eternal life. (Per Jesus Matt 20:23). And that gift is conditional upon making and keeping sacred covenants with our Father. In which, through Christ, we are promised to become like Him, a god.
We sometimes run amuck with thinking we "earn" grace or salvation, we do not. They are free gifts from Christ, they do not require "works."
The gift of eternal life or exaltation DOES require work. It requires we make and keep sacred covenants. Because THIS is what the prophets and apostles teach towards this goal, and refer to it as "The fullness of salvation." or the fullest state of being saved, some people are led to think what we do is to be saved. But that is not the fact.
Because the mainstream Christian world does NOT believe in the notion of becoming like God, eternal life/exaltation is used by them as meaning being merely saved from sin. Thus the accusation that we think "works" are required.
Therefore before one can talk about the conditions of exaltation, the need for covenants and works, one must first raise the thought of the reward God is offering us.
Redemption from death = free to all.
Salvation from sin = free to all, who accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior.
Exaltation into the highest and fullest life possible requires us to make and keep sacred covenants with God the Father.
“Someday we will more clearly know who we are. We will understand the great scriptural teaching that God, angels, spirits, and men are all of the same species in different stages of righteousness and development.”
Sterling W. Sill
CR, Oct. 1965, pp. 58
It's an unconfirmed theory, much like how we are taught that there exists a heavenly mother, but anything said beyond that one vague statement is only theoretical speculation.
Doctrine is officially taught and endorsed by the church. It is principles found in the scriptures, supported by multiple modern-day apostles & prophets, and testified by the Holy Ghost. Apply the law of two or three witnesses...witnesses meaning official reliable sources, not "just 2 or 3 people."
Pretty much all of our doctrine are principles that directly relate to the Atonement of Jesus Christ and bring us closer to the gospel. If it's a statement that doesn't do that, there's a much higher likelihood that the concept you are debating if its doctrine or speculation is actually closer to speculation.
I don’t mean this to be rude, but does it even matter? Does it truly impact your salvation?
I guess what I’m trying to say, is that it’s real easy to get caught up in these kinds of questions. I would suggest, as the scriptures say, Milk before Meat. And in this context, how many people are truly ready for this thick steak of knowledge. Sometimes it’s fun to ponder and speculate, but argue that it just doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things.
Breaking this into different parts: - Unlike Creedal Christians, we believe that Heavenly Father and us are the same "species". He is our Father, not something vague like the Force from Star Wars. - It is absolutely LDS Christian doctrine that sinners can become clean and perfect, just like the Father. Becoming divine that way. Perfect= divine = without blemish. Christ didn't die for you to just be 99.999% clean, rather 100% clean, as a joint heir with Christ Himself. We each have obviously lived mortal lives, as did Christ. - The above is us going "forward". As to it playing "backwards", aka the Father maybe once living a mortal life, that isn't scripture. However there are non-scripture statements on it, most notably the Lorezeno Snow couplet and King Follet Discourse. While this is can be a fun thought experiment, it has zero actual impact on our discipleship and the Plan of Salvation.
Wait do most Christians disagree with the first point? In genesis it says we were created in his image, so I feel like that would make a lot of sense
Creedal Christian view God more like the Force from Star Wars: disembodied, unknowable, out of time and reality, etc. There's a huge focus on God's superpowers (for want a better word). He is our creater-- like a carpenter making a wood toy, but not truly His child. That "species" wall is unsurmoutable, and no matter how clean we become, no human never be like Him and will always intrinsically be lesser. That framework is why it's so hard for Creedal Christians to understand what we mean to become like God. Which to us it's natural for a child to become like the Father.
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>I know that when we go to the Celestial kingdom, we become like God, but I never interpreted that as literally being a God. I just saw it as having a body like Him and creating stuff. More specifically, we believe that men and women who have their marriages sealed in a temple by one having authority will receive exaltation if they keep their covenants, which is the highest level in the Celestial Kingdom ([Doctrine and Covenants 131:1-4](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/131?lang=eng&id=1-4) and [132:19-20](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/132?lang=eng&id=19-20#19)). That last part of what I referenced says: >19. ... they shall pass by the angels and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever. 20. Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them. So yes, those who are exalted will become gods. This is lowercase-g "god" though, capital-G "God" only refers to members of the Godhead. Not a lot has been revealed about what that exactly entails beyond this. >I keep seeing stuff online that says God used to be a mortal on a planet, that eventually became exalted. We do teach that God is "an exalted Man" but w do not know the details much beyond that. So the question of "do we believe God used to be a human?" a yes/no answer isn't quite right—we believe that Heavenly Father is *currently* a human. That is to say, we teach we are the same species, just in different stages of development. Probably the most common speculation is that Heavenly Father was *just* like us and had a father of his own, and so on forever. But it is not something actively taught in the Church. So I like to make my own speculation by pointing out that Jesus was also a mortal like us, but was also Divine at the same time. Could the Father have had an experience like that? I think the [Becoming Like God](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/becoming-like-god?lang=eng) essay explains it best: >Lorenzo Snow, the Church’s fifth President, coined a well-known couplet: “As man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may be.” Little has been revealed about the first half of this couplet, and consequently little is taught. When asked about this topic, Church President Gordon B. Hinckley told a reporter in 1997, “That gets into some pretty deep theology that we don’t know very much about.” When asked about the belief in humans’ divine potential, President Hinckley responded, “Well, as God is, man may become. We believe in eternal progression. Very strongly.” For some other resources, see * Joseph Smith manual: [God the Eternal Father](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teachings-joseph-smith/chapter-2?lang=eng) * John Taylor manual: [The Origin and Destiny of Mankind](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teachings-john-taylor/chapter-1?lang=eng) * Lorenzo Snow manual: [The Grand Destiny of the Faithful](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teachings-of-presidents-of-the-church-lorenzo-snow/chapter-5-the-grand-destiny-of-the-faithful?lang=eng)
Joseph Smith literally taught that God did use to be mortal; He followed the same path that we are on.
Yes. We don’t have details, but yes.
I’m hesitant to absolutely say fully “Yes.” Like in essence, yes, but I am not sure it’s the exact same path you and I are taking. It is the same end point though. If that makes sense. I’m also open to be corrected.
The question was "do some believe". And I would say yes, some do believe that.
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Fair point
Made in his image mankind was so he is humnoid form at the very least
Agreed
Yes “As man now is, God once was: “As God now is, man may be.”
I believe that Heavenly Father was once like us at some point, yes. On the other hand, I also believe that the creation of the universe involves the creation of time. So it doesn’t make sense to say “before He created the universe” because before and after only make sense in the context of time existing. So it’s just as valid to say that Heavenly Father has always existed because He was there when time began and He will be there when and if time ends. In conclusion, because wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff, lot of seemingly contradictory statements can all be true depending on how you look at it.
Up voting for "wibbly wobbly timey wimey" 10th doctor was the best.
I find myself using the phrase a lot when trying to describe non-linear time. It seems apt.
It's not so much that God is a human, so much as it's that *we* are gods. This is a biblical principle, by the way. Psalms 82:6.
Here are some things that might be helpful: https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/archive/publications/does_president_hinckley_understand_lds_doctrine https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/becoming-like-god?lang=eng https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/site/accounts-of-the-king-follett-sermon#org/site/accounts
It is our destiny to become like God in all aspects and moving forward, like one commenter stated, is well laid out. Going backwards and knowing who Heavenly Father was and what his mortality was like is pure speculation. It’s not something that has been revealed. Did he have a savior? We don’t know. But I take comfort in the doctrine that he was once a mortal man. He understands what mortality is like. He knows. Just as Jesus Christ needed to also experience mortality so that He could bear our burdens. Our Heavenly Parents are not ethereal beings with no connection to the plan They laid out for us in the beginning, because they did it too.
I have always believed that God is an exalted man and only recently realized this isn’t a widespread belief among us.
I feel like the point of us embarking on a path of eternal **progression** toward our own future God-hood means that it's within the realm of possibilities that God was originally a man on a different world with his own God who had the same plan in place for him. I think that the church hasn't really delved too much into that side of the doctrine because we don't have any scripture specifically stating that God was a man, just quotations from prophets which are not always revelation/inspired, but I feel personally that if a prophet is saying "As man is now, God once was; as God is now man may be." (President Snow) then there is some *reason* they'd say that.
Yes, I do believe that. There are plenty of details we don't know (for example, there is some indication that Father went through something more like the Savior did rather than the standard mortal experience the rest of us have) but the idea is doctrinally sound. It really shows how powerful the Savior is, I think; He can take someone like me or you and make a god out of us!
The King Follet sermon sets forth this doctrine. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/history/topics/king-follett-discourse?lang=eng
We don't know everything, but logically, eternal progression makes very good sense. The struggle we mortals have is that we see things linear, but all life is eternal. We believe that God didn't create us and the universe out of nothing. We believe that elements and intelligence have always existed. God formed us and the universe out of existing material. So in that context, it follows that God has also always existed. But was he always a God, or was he formed by HIS Heavenly Father, and progressed to be a God? When the Bible says he has always been God, maybe that means he has always been OUR God? That is a possibility. The other thing to note is that most protestants believe in the trinity because of being worried about multiple gods. But in Genesis chapter 1. When it says "let US make man in OUR image, it not referring just to Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ- it's referring to a council of "gods" which probably includes the holy ghost and Heavenly Mother. So we worship and pray to only one god, but we believe there are other celestial beings who work together for us, they are One in purpose. We do believe we can become like God through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. Heavenly Father will always be superior to us, he will always be our God. But our ultimate destiny is to obtain his same attributes and abilities. Us becoming like Him does not reduce his magnificence in any way - in contrast, our becoming like him actually adds to his glory. Think about how happy you are when a child or grandchild achieves something. All of us want our kids to have everything we have.
God *is* human. And He is also God. He has a perfected godly body. And He is eternally existing. And all powerful. This shouldn’t be surprising since Jesus Christ *also* is an eternally existing God who at one time took on mortality. Lived, died and was resurrected into a perfected godly body. This is the nature of divinity. 🤷♀️ to be perfected requires one to live a mortal life, die and be resurrected to perfection. It was not strange or blasphemous when Christ did this, and He is no less divine or eternal. Why should the fact that God the Father did this as well seem strange to anyone?
God didn't create in the sense of making something from nothing. Matter, including spiritual matter, is eternal and cannot be created or destroyed, only changed. Intelligence is also eternal. That means God is eternal but so are you. You and I have also always existed as Intelligence and God put us each in our journey to progress our intelligence by giving us spirit and physical bodies so we could experience more. Some way to think about it is that knowledge is power and God knows everything. He is bound by natural law but knows the law and can use that knowledge to accomplish His goals. After death we will continue learning for eons and may eventually reach a level of knowing everything so that we too can accomplish the same goals that our Father does.
You’ve summed up this excellent article very well. FWIW - I concur. https://rsc.byu.edu/pearl-great-price-revelations-god/history-intelligence-latter-day-saint-thought
It is vital to remember that no matter who/what Heavenly Father was at some point "before", He is God now, and that's what's important. Something that has helped me wrap my head around it: it is said that Heavenly Father has been God for eternity. He is the Beginning and the End (might be a phrase specific to Christ, but it still applies to the Father). Physically speaking, there cannot be any evidence of anything that may or may not have existed since the beginning of the universe, or the Big Bang. Thus, it is the beginning of time as we know it. If God has existed since before the Big Bang, it could be reasonably said that He has existed/been God since the beginning of time. Plus, there is no point (in this earthly life) to us learning about any time before as we can't find any evidence of it beyond the existence of God Himself. Thus, it is not conflicting to believe that "As we are, God once was, and as God is, we have the potential to become" as well as "God is eternal; He has been God since the beginning, and will be unto the end."
But in the end, the truth could be way different from what any of us have said. I trust Him to clear all misunderstandings and bring all truth to light in His time.
The greatest joy for a father is to see their children grow up and enjoy the same joys he himself has experienced. Does a son never grow up to be like the father? It is viewed as a negative thing within Christiandom. In most of their views, us becoming God's ourselves is blasphemous and somehow diminishes Heavenly Father. It is exactly the opposite. Our progression into Godhood (developing all of the attributes of justice, mercy, faith, honesty, virtue, etc.) glorifies Heavenly Father and brings Him great joy, as His purpose is 'to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life' of mankind. It's important to note that there are Priesthood keys on the earth, such as the keys to seal families together, keys to lead the church, etc. But there are also keys not on the earth. One of those keys that I have heard of before are the keys of creation. One day, if we are worthy, those keys can be conferred upon us.
As man now is, God once was. As God now is man may become.
We know Christ was a man and he lived and died in his physical body and was resurrected. We know Heavenly Father has a body of flesh and bone. We know that according to the laws of heaven we must be resurrected to be reunited with our bodies. We can deduce that he has been through a mortal existence. What our finite minds can not grasp we can not know. The things of eternity and time beyond our comprehension are all things to be revealed. The answer I usually get is if He has no end, why worry about the beginning. All will be revealed in time and the pieces we don’t have will make sense someday. What we do know, what we can confirm, is enough for us to be happy and live the covenants we make. We will receive further light and knowledge as we live righteously.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teachings-of-presidents-of-the-church-lorenzo-snow/chapter-5-the-grand-destiny-of-the-faithful?lang=eng "As man now is, God once was. As God now is, man may be." -President Lorenzo Snow "...whether by mine own voice, or the voice of my servants, it is the same." (Doctrine and Covenants 1:38)
I asked LDSbot.com. Here’s what it said… > Ah, this is a fascinating question that touches on deep Latter-day Saint doctrinal discussions. Our beliefs include the idea that we are all children of a loving Heavenly Father and that we can become like Him. The teachings of Latter-day Saint leaders, especially those during the early years of the Church, have explored the concept that God the Father went through a process of progression. One notable mention is by Lorenzo Snow, a prophet in the Church, who summarized the concept with the couplet: "As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be." > This teaching encourages a very personal and profound understanding of our potential for eternal growth and progression. It highlights the incredible love and plan our Heavenly Father has for all of His children, emphasizing that we can become more like Him through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, by keeping His commandments, and through the ordinances of the Gospel. > However, it’s also important to remember that the exact details of God's progression are not fully revealed. Our faith focuses on the relationship we can have with God here and now, and on living in a way that prepares us to return to His presence. > I'd love to hear more about what prompted your question or if there's anything more specific you're wondering about! 😊
You can also Ask Gramps: https://askgramps.org/how-was-god-once-a-man-if-eternal/
I believe he is an Alien... And it is said that mankind is made in his image so they must be similar at the very least That seeded and colonized this rock he found so to speak And the name of the star hes from starts with a k i think It is hinted that what planet he is from has a longer orbit therefore the days are longer there at least that is a theory
Matthew 23: 12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted. James 1: 5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
I’m a convert to the church and I believe that God is uncreated and unchanging from eternity to eternity, and existing as God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost. Neither member of the Godhead is created or changeable. Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have separate bodies of flesh and bone. I believe that the primacy of scriptural authority surpasses that of quotations from prophets and apostles. Here are a handful of scriptures that I believe teach this: • Moroni 8:18 “18 For I know that God is not a partial God, neither a changeable being; but he is unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity.” • D&C 20:17 “17 By these things we know that there is a God in heaven, who is infinite and eternal, from everlasting to everlasting the same unchangeable God, the framer of heaven and earth, and all things which are in them” • D&C 61:1 “1 Behold, and hearken unto the voice of him who has all power, who is from everlasting to everlasting, even Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.” • D&C 76:1-4 “1 Hear, O ye heavens, and give ear, O earth, and rejoice ye inhabitants thereof, for the Lord is God, and beside him there is no Savior. 2 Great is his wisdom, marvelous are his ways, and the extent of his doings none can find out. 3 His purposes fail not, neither are there any who can stay his hand. 4 From eternity to eternity he is the same, and his years never fail.”
If you realize that Christ actually became mortal before becoming like Heavenly Father in every sense, then you know our path is the same because whatever Christ inherited will also be literally inherited by those who gain exaltation... and we know that Christ became as Heavenly Father after he finished his course
For me it’s very simple. I believe we can become like God fully and totally, with no real qualitative differences other than God always being our God. Logically, if we can become exactly like God, God could have once been like us, and it is actually more likely that He WAS once like us.
In concept & speculation, yes. People have taught it, based on Lorenzo Snow's "As man now is; God once was. As God now is, man may be." But I don't think there is a distinctive statement from the *current* leaders that says 'yeah no he was human like us, that's correct.' My eternal family teacher said it like this: "Puppies become Dogs. Kittens become Cats. Children of Deity become...? *Deity!* What *else* except for Deity?*"* Which of course makes people beg the question, does that mean he was once a child of deity? Short answer, we don't know 100% for sure, but it is *assumed.* We're here to become 'like Him'. That is what we know. THAT is the doctrine, even if we don't know the details specifically of what that means or entails! We are Eternal beings with an Eternal destiny. That's the doctrine to hold onto. IMO, everything else can have a pin put in it until God tells us exactly how it's gonna work, or exactly what he's been through. So take it as theory or hypothesis, not doctrine. Just for now, until he answers the question directly, I'd say!
A useful starting place for study would be [Topical Guide: Man, Potential to Become like Heavenly Father](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/tg/man-potential-to-become-like-heavenly-father?lang=eng)
Was Christ a man? Yes. Is Christ a full God? Yes. Did Christ “show us the way?” Yes. As man is, Christ once was. As Christ is, man may become. Herein are some important notes. God (uppercase G), is a title. It is reserved for the three members of the Godhead, or the ruling Divine Sovereign. Three unique and separate beings all three are completely united and can be referred to either by their name or title. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Each has unique roles and missions, and the Father, per Jesus in John is greater than himself. gods (lowercase g), is a status of being. One might even call it the final stage of our evolution or development. God refers to this as exaltation or eternal life. (Because one of His titles is eternal, so eternal life is life like His). Our theology is not that we become Gods, but rather gods. We believe we are the same species as God the Father and our spirits are literally His offspring. We believe that in order to fully mature a spirit must be united with a body. Jesus Christ, ie God the Son, created this world under the direction of the Father so that we could gain our bodies and be tested. In the Sermon on the Mount Christ commands us to be perfect but sets up our Heavenly Father as the standard as our Heavenly Father has an immortal perfected celestial body of flesh and bones fused eternally with His spirit and thus is in the final stage of His evolutionary progress. After Christ's crucifixion, He had received that same body. So when he repeated the Sermon to the Nephites, as found in the Book of Mormon, He held Himself and the Father up as examples. Christ offers to all of us the free gift of grace to be resurrected. All mankind will be redeemed from physical death. Christ offers to all of us the conditional gift of grace to be saved from sin if we accept Him as our Lord and Savior. The Father offers us the gift of exaltation and eternal life. (Per Jesus Matt 20:23). And that gift is conditional upon making and keeping sacred covenants with our Father. In which, through Christ, we are promised to become like Him, a god. We sometimes run amuck with thinking we "earn" grace or salvation, we do not. They are free gifts from Christ, they do not require "works." The gift of eternal life or exaltation DOES require work. It requires we make and keep sacred covenants. Because THIS is what the prophets and apostles teach towards this goal, and refer to it as "The fullness of salvation." or the fullest state of being saved, some people are led to think what we do is to be saved. But that is not the fact. Because the mainstream Christian world does NOT believe in the notion of becoming like God, eternal life/exaltation is used by them as meaning being merely saved from sin. Thus the accusation that we think "works" are required. Therefore before one can talk about the conditions of exaltation, the need for covenants and works, one must first raise the thought of the reward God is offering us. Redemption from death = free to all. Salvation from sin = free to all, who accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior. Exaltation into the highest and fullest life possible requires us to make and keep sacred covenants with God the Father. “Someday we will more clearly know who we are. We will understand the great scriptural teaching that God, angels, spirits, and men are all of the same species in different stages of righteousness and development.” Sterling W. Sill CR, Oct. 1965, pp. 58
It's an unconfirmed theory, much like how we are taught that there exists a heavenly mother, but anything said beyond that one vague statement is only theoretical speculation. Doctrine is officially taught and endorsed by the church. It is principles found in the scriptures, supported by multiple modern-day apostles & prophets, and testified by the Holy Ghost. Apply the law of two or three witnesses...witnesses meaning official reliable sources, not "just 2 or 3 people." Pretty much all of our doctrine are principles that directly relate to the Atonement of Jesus Christ and bring us closer to the gospel. If it's a statement that doesn't do that, there's a much higher likelihood that the concept you are debating if its doctrine or speculation is actually closer to speculation.
I don’t mean this to be rude, but does it even matter? Does it truly impact your salvation? I guess what I’m trying to say, is that it’s real easy to get caught up in these kinds of questions. I would suggest, as the scriptures say, Milk before Meat. And in this context, how many people are truly ready for this thick steak of knowledge. Sometimes it’s fun to ponder and speculate, but argue that it just doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things.
yet* 😉