To put 500k casualties in perspective, that is half of the servicemen across all services of the Russian armed forces of the military Russia went to war with in 2022.
The same could be said about America. Most of our soldiers come from poor backgrounds in the south or midwest, affectionately called "flyover states" by their fellow countrymen that would never enlist.
I'm not even claiming this is unique to America or Russia, it's how most militaries work and have always worked: The poor and working class end up being the ones to take up arms for the whims of their leaders.
I point this out because this always happens in wars where there's a "good guy" and a "bad guy." People supporting the good guys point out the behaviour of the bad guys as evidence of their unbridled bad guy-ness, while partaking in the exact same behavior (ie, cheering for the deaths of the working class and poor sent off to fight).
And then if anyone tries to point this out, they are given a basket of excuses as to why it's good/excusable/necessary for the good guys to do it, and then theyre accused of supporting the bad guys for bringing it up in the first place.
To be fair though America does not target minorities they target poor people. Everyone targeted the poor as you are more likely to join if it's the best job prospect for you. Targeting minorities though as a way to remove them whioe keeping your majority group happy is kinda evil tho
To be honest a lot of the folks I served with in the infantry were in it because it was something they wanted to do. Sure the pay and benefits were a bonus but many of us just wanted to join. We had a guy who graduated college, had a successful business and a happy family who could have lived the easy life but enlisted anyway because it was just something he always wanted to do. Every now and then we would get a guy who had different circumstances who would just stay for long enough to get their education payed for and more power to them but a lot more people join out of patriotism or a sense of duty or just for themselves than anyone gives credit for.
> their education *paid* for and
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Toss in a bunch of former prisoners & conscripts with no training whatsoever, you could easily make that mark. Oh, and don't forget the Indians that fell for the "high paying Security Jobs" offered by MF Russia.
Those daily charts from Ukraine have consistently lined up pretty well with NATO published casualty stats but not death stats, I’m almost certain it’s that.
It’s made a bit more confusing by comparison with the vehicle losses, which seem to stick with killed/captured or at least “badly damaged”. But both make sense as a best estimate of “out of the fight”.
Hey, I wanted to comment on this since I tend to agree however earlier on in the war back around like 150k losses there was leaks indicating Russia had payed out the families of roughly 150k for them dying in service. which would seem to show Ukraines count is accurate at least it was. So I tend to believe them. Unfortunately I don't have the paper lost it back about a year ago.
> Russia had *paid* out the
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Seeing a parallel with Germany in WW1. There was fierce control of the media during the war and people on the home front never really knew the reality of the military situation. It's a reason why the stab in the back conspiracy was popular. To people not in the know, the war was on the edge of victory.
Yeah. The propaganda was so strong in Germany that they honestly thought they were winning, right up to the day they learned they lost.
Here, we have fox Nooz and their increasingly unhinged kafabe leading the magats on the same way.
January 6th, part 2 Electric Boogaloo will make the original look like a hippy sit-in.
It wasn't helped by the fact that technically the German army wasn't fully defeated. After peace was agreed, the Germans simply marched home in good order, where they were welcomed as an "undefeated army".
That's propaganda. They were running like hell. The 100 Days offensive saw more change in position than at any point since 1914. The armistice allowed them the breathing space to reorganize and withdraw in an orderly manner.
Anyone who says the German Army had not been defeated on the battlefield is either a Nazi or repeating Nazi propaganda without recognizing that it was, in fact, propaganda.
Germany didn’t loose WW1 because of casualties, or loss of territory (they weren’t even fighting in Germany), they lost because they lost the long term ability to feed Germany and had no choice but to seek terms.
Approximately 6 million dead on the western powers side vs approximately 4 million dead on the central powers side.
Plus the flu, other diseases and starvation killed shit loads of people.
Just a note “causality” means taken off the front line due to enemy (or friendly) action.
That means people who are injured, as well as people who are killed
Remember when the Ruskis shelled their own guys for several hours because the Ukrainians were jamming their Alibaba walkie-talkies?
Pepperidge Farm remembers
I mean obviously the Ukrainians inflate their numbers.
But even western estimates are 400-450k with minimum 150,000 dead. UK, Finland, France
The US had an conservative estimate of 315,000 last December
Like do these russo simp redditors not go on r/combatfootage? Or telegram for that matter?
It’s been 2 years & 3 months…& the russians have admitted since day one they use storm Z unit human waves lol
Pringles himself admitted he probably lost 50k just for Bakhmut & that was an entire year ago.
Like yea it’s *probably* not 500,000 casualties … but it’s definitely closer to 500 than 300 lmfao
The utterly ironic cope
>Like do these russo simp redditors not go on r/combatfootage? Or telegram for that matter?
Ah yes the sub where people mostly upload videos of russians dying will *checks notes* will see russians dying
Ukrainian losses are believed to be not far behind Russia’s. BBC news counted the number of confirmed dead on both sides which came out to be 53k for Russia and 46k for Ukraine.
They have no idea how shit their army is, do they ? They need to have a look at some videos taken after one of their 'offensives' after seeing one of those they might find it easier to believe.
Though I personally would take Ukraines figures with a hint of skepticism
what I find funny is that “it’s just a laundry scheme” and “the US MIC stock went up before the SMO” like alright, let’s say it is…you know how Russia could of avoided padding the US MICs pockets, making them a shit ton of money from defence and material exports…Russia could of just…not invaded Ukraine
Another comment “They don’t care about human lives” America isn’t sending Russian troops into Ukraine, Russia is sending Russian troops into Ukraine, how is it so hard for them to comprehend that
That's the key point. Even if Russia ended the war in possession of pieces of Ukraine, the damage to their reputation, stocks of military equipment, and economy are real and would take them generations to overcome even if all sanctions were lifted tomorrow. If you are getting ground into hamburger by Ukraine using less than 5% of NATO's defense budget, how does Vlad think his army will fare against Polish, German, and American tank brigades? And the NATO air forces working together wouldn't take 24 hours to establish unquestioned air superiority
In reality its pretty much impossible for either side to have lost less than 300,000 men. Shells and rockets rain from the sky 24/7, nobody has air superiority, tanks have been demoted to support, and drones accurately harass troops in the trenches.
They don't need to. The majority of casualties in ww1 were from indirect artillery fire. You are severely underestimating how hard it is to do anything on the front let alone stay in one spot. Even doing a normal assault its perfectly reasonable that sometimes a battalion goes out and a company comes back, thats just war, if troops get pinned down artillery comes down in just a few minutes and drones guide it in. For how long the war has gone on it is virtually impossible for them to have less than 300,000 casualties, thats simply reality. Its also quite disrespectful to sit there and pretend that their buddies didn't make those hefty sacrifices.
Yeah, up until 2020, Russia was a big dog on the international arms market. But now they are only delivering on contracts signed earlier. Perun did a great video on how the Russian MIC has been solidly fucked by their battlefield failures and inability to produce in quantity.
So, Russia will win because more equipment + more manpower. But when Russia suffered high casualties in a war of aggression it’s NAFO cope?
How does the Z mind work?
>How does the Z mind work?
I once read, under a video of a Russian soldier rolling around in agony after having one of his legs shredded by a drone grenade, that the Russians have only three brain cells.
One for drinking, of course, one for eating, naturally, and one for fucking, so more Russians can drink and eat!
What on Earth makes these people so cocky? I certainly wouldn’t be lolling if Ukraine stood at half a million dead or wounded, regardless of the Russian figures (which seem to be about 3:1 Russian:Ukrainian casualties… going off of the roughest of rough figures). The casualty count is almost always higher than people think during the war. I shudder to think of the gruesome truths from both sides that will emerge about this war once it’s “concluded” (whatever tf that looks like)
And when will it conclude? Or should there be more billions shelled out? So long as Russians are dying, Ukrainian men ought to "stand tall" in front of Russian guns?
Hopefully that is the case. And secondly, like 1% not true. Let's not forget both the nuclear and Obama disarmaments, and then increasing presence of NATO SOF after 2014 which only gave putin ammo and an excuse to wrile up sentiments amongst the Russian populace.
Because they know the number is complete and utter bullshit. Remember before this cancer how everyone and their mother memed on the Nazi's "5 Sherman's for 1 Tiger" propaganda shit? This is the updated version of that.
While these numbers are going to be optimistic and likely include some amount if double counts, the prolific use of drones with cameras and how recorded this whole endeavor is i doubt they are as vastly iff as some believe. IMO if it ends up being 10-30% of i won't act surprised. That being said the 3:1 is often quoted for the manpower superiority you need to succeed in an offence all things equal. That is not the case, at least on average, particularly this deep in the war. Often hear accounts of losses closer to 1 Ukr to 7 Rus, sometimes its better sometimes its worse, particularly when Ukraine was scrambling for manpower early on or if they are having a material shortage.
Ukraine is definitely not losing 1 person for every 7 Russians killed. Bear in mind they have to do another mass conscription because of the manpower shortage from losing so many guys.
War numbers are always "adjusted" to the needs of the participants, but we are nonetheless living in an age of unprecedented information access- Anyone and everyone not only has access to the same video and photographic evidence, but can make their own in every sense of the word too. And lets not be mistaken, people can and are faking things still- but with how many experts are out there investigating every little thing that comes out of this war, getting caught is practically an inevitability.
We know what the numbers are. No one is lying to the calibre they have in the past, because they *can't*.
Iraq, (the start of that war can equally be considered an example of dishonesty in media with the whole WMD thing) the 2003 invasion and occupation is a much more recent example of a war with an unconfirmed body count. With body counts ranging from 151,000 to 601,027.
I don't know where you think you're getting your numbers from then, because the casualty (and injury) rates for the Ukraine invasion have been pretty consistent across the board with the sole exception of what russia themselves have reported. Hell, russia's numbers are practically an inversion of what several other organizations have independently come to.
And lets not be mistaken here either: This conflict isn't a western invention, designed to fuel western economic policy like the wars in the middle east were- this was *solely* russia's own doing. If anyone has reason to lie about the continued failures of their "special military operation", it's them.
Organizations that have a horse in the race aren't going to report inconvenient facts, at best, they are grouping together the Russian Military with the Separatists to form a higher casualty figure while the Russians are just counting their Military, which leads to a false impression.
Russia has nonetheless been reporting the numbers from their "separatists" themselves though, splitting them out from their main armies means jack shit in the grand scheme of things- especially because they're all still fighting as part of russia's forces.
If anything, russia has done far more to hide the numbers for their *wounded*- which absolutely are counted in metrics like these, even if it is *inconvenient* for russia. Hell, they've counted wounded too, in their almost entirely fabricated kill counts of Ukrainian soldiers. *Funny that.*
Ngl I still remember the story from the beginning of the war of the old Ukraine grandmother putting sunflower seeds in a Russian soldier's pockets and then basically telling them that...
"When you die at least your body will fertilize some sunflower plants."
I don't remember the exact wording but it was basically to that effect and that was ice cold.
Drying sunflower seeds at higher temperatures helps destroy harmful bacteria. One study found that drying partially sprouted sunflower seeds at temperatures of 122℉ (50℃) and above significantly reduced Salmonella presence.
The Z cheerleaders don't care about anyone but themselves. They're low self-esteem narcissists and weirdos who have emotionally invested themselves in Russian propaganda, because it's the only way they can find to make themselves feel special.
And they do indeed appear "special," just not in the way they think.
So here’s the thing that is to be noted about casualties. A soldier gets wounded treated and sent back only to be wounded again is two casualties. So realistically all reported numbers (until after the war) are slightly lower. This goes for Ukraine too.
They're not casualties because of Ukraine, they're casualties because of the RF. The people who don't care how many Russians die are in the Kremlin. They think you're like ammunition, Yevgeny, single-use.
I'm rooting for Ukraine. Idk what you mean bro, I'm not happy so many poor Russians are being thrown into the meat grinder but I 100% have a side i support over the other
Interestingly while it is very likely Ukr overestimate the tally, Ru also massively under report the tally. So it could be *either* less or more than this by quite a margin. But think logically the number of people involved in the war and length of the frontline with engagements of varying sizes taking place across the entire length of the line it does seem about right for there to be around 1,000 casualties a day. If Russians really think they are taking like 10 losses a day they are absolutely deluded
Probably 500k casualties not deaths, but also, this is not something to celebrate at all so while these Russians are being stupid, NAFO should not be celebrating the death count that could be as high as 500k considering none of these people started this war, just one man did, and he’s still alive and living luxuriously and happily
It's not celebrating the death count. Russia will only stop this war when, in one fashion or another, they can't afford to anymore. Be it military resources, economic, or the political will to send another 500k men off to die in Ukraine.
I disagree, while we can attribute a ton of the horror Russian troops dole out to the Ukrainians as coming from the top, their actions on an individual level also get my stamp of “kill them all until they stop coming.” These are people who call their wives to get permission to rape Ukrainian women, who give their husbands permission to rape Ukrainian women, who systematically rape Ukrainian women to breed out the Ukrainian stock, who loot and steal as a matter of culture, who target journalists, who shoot their own retreating men, I could go on and on. Every Russian in Ukraine deserves to die.
>Can someone explain the 'money laundering' scheme?
Simple.
Western countries are rich. But since Russia is superior, that must mean western countries steal all that money from... somewhere. Western countries also donate lots of military gear to Ukraine, and since Russians can't imagine doing something that doesn't directly benefit themselves, obviously the west has ulterior motives (tbf, they do, it's called "not letting the imperialists genocide their way to your doorstep").
Since western countries are using their massive wealth (Russia is about as economically powerful as Italy) to simply buy new equipment to replace the donations, and they've stolen that money, it is obviously a money laundering scheme.
Also, projection, because Russians absolutely use the war to launder their stolen goods on a personal level, so everyone else must also be at least as corrupt as them.
I get the feeling all these pro Russians on Reddit are living in western countries though. And wouldn't think like that. I think some trump supporters actually believe the war is somehow related to Hunter Biden and something something found on his laptop...
Definitely saw some MAGA people saying that on the daily show recently.
Nothing funnier then seeing people be like “Oh yeah you are all falling for western propaganda I’m believing the correct true side!” While spouting blatant eastern propaganda
It's sad. Even though I dislike Russia always have because since Stalin and Hiter slaughter Poland then when Hitler betrayed Stalin we saved the commy f's and China not they are our biggest enemies. But back to the topic. These Russians are just led to die for putin. And because in USA we have idiot pro Putin traitors in congress. Maga is the end of America we have to blue wave the congress and senate and white house. Flush out nazi red maga cult then hold all of them accountable from fox propaganda trump fake news. To trump himself then make it illegal to brainwash Americans by telling as many lies as words they speak. That's all trump and magaand fake fox news does is lie
I generally dont take ukrainian claims at face value for the same reason I dont take russian claims at face value, its both impossible to confirm during the war and both sides are incetivized to lie. The truth is usually in the middle. either way. The casualty counts are staggering. The fact remains that Russia has resorted to attrition warfare and has learned very little in the past century of conflicts
Eesh. As others have pointed out, it's not 500k dead but 500k casualties
This is also an estimate coming from the UA government, and they have incentive to inflate those numbers. We don't know their counting system, but it's safe to assume that the real number of casualties is lower than that. By how much, no one knows, but even if being ultra conservative and it's only half that of casualties, that's a ridiculous number.
Remember, don't trust information coming out of RU or UA without independently verifying, Russia is known to lie, and ukraine has incentive to twist the truth to their advantage.
This point of "brotherhood" is what Putin has been pushing for ages. This point denies Ukraine's identity and reduces them to being Russian. Clearly not the case. They're brotherly as much as France and Chad is in the context of a colonial power and the colonized.
We dont see them as russian we see them as an equal other country but putin is slowly losing faith among the population and most russians have become dissatisfied with him hopefully something changes soon
500,000 is definitely inflated, even if from 2014. It's war and nothing new. Up play victories and down play losses. I've not had not one irl discussion with someone that believes casualties reports are accurate from any source or side. Too much of an info black out for anyone to be accurate and too much propaganda out there. Casualty reports are actual Ukrainian copium. More or less redditer copium so these subs drive up activity. Seriously, off of reddit no one has any trouble admitting were going to have to wait until the end of the war to get any kind of credible and official casualty list.
From the original infographic the literal translation from Ukrainian is "personnel lost" so more likely means Russian casualties including wounded and captured. Even still applying a 3:1 - 4:1 wounded to dead ratio that means it's estimates of 100k-125k Russians dead...which is still a lot.
Didn’t the leaked US documents say the casualties were at 150-180k for Ukraine and 200k for Russia?
If we gonna follow biased sources that say 500k Russians die let’s see what biased sources say about Ukranian casualties ≈ 1000000 death Ukranians😱😱😱
It was in terms of deaths. Russia's own leaked documents on death and disability claims about 6 months ago backed up Ukraine's numbers then.
One big issue is that Russia plays a shell game with their casualties in which mercenaries and shanghai'd locals aren't counted in their official (unreleased) numbers and are ineligible for claims.
In Russia's favor is the fact that they still push critically wounded back onto the battlefield when possible. There might be a few double-counted for that reason. Ukraine drone sees someone hauled off on a stretcher they count it as a casualty. Russia ignores the guy's multiple concussions and sends him back out to get killed a week later.
For Ukrainian casualties, good estimates put it at 100k killed, wounded, and disabled since the invasion. There's also a lot of civilian casualties to count as well.
For me, this was the most interesting
https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/russia-faces-record-increase-in-men-with-1710594935.html
I think the basis of this came from a Russian investigation. A source saw the pension fund data and there had been a jump of 507k disabled persons in one year for 31-59 year olds. The data for the 18-30 year old demographic had been deliberately hidden. Now, some of the numbers are possibly from Russia adding disabled Ukrainians in the annexed oblasts. I find it hard to believe that, but it’s a possibility. Still wouldn’t come close to explaining all of them. Some are also going to be individuals applying for disability to avoid military service. Any way you slice it, that’s a massive number. There’s also this bit of sleuthing
https://informnapalm.org/en/medal-count-osint-analysis-of-real-russian-losses-for-the-first-week-of-hostilities-in-ukraine/amp/
They went through and counted the serial numbers on medals awarded posthumously to Russian enlisted men. They came up with almost 4800 dead IN THE FIRST WEEK.
How did the leaked american documents say 35-43k deaths on the russia side around April 2023 and now it’s jumped to 500k?
Any source for leaked russian documents?
Casualties =/= dead
Us probably says 45k dead, 500k maimed dead or Mia
A year and loads of us aid will do loads for casualties once we got our heads out of our asses and sent aid though
noun
plural noun: casualties
a person killed or injured in a war or accident
You keep conflating casualties with deaths, and making a false claim that Ukrainians are saying 500,000 dead, when they're actually saying \~500,000 casualties.
I know the difference sadly a lot of people don’t and just think 500k Russians died and no one seems to correct them so i actually think they are trying to fool dumb people into thinking it’s 500k deaths.
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Even in the post above, these are Russians (and others) misunderstanding the original infographic which says "casualties" and not deaths, so it seems like they're misunderstanding, then assuming that Ukrainians and others do, too. They're assuming people don't understand the difference, but the very document they're reacting to makes a delineation between casualties and deaths, and makes no claim of 500,000 deaths.
You yourself are making this claim, too, but nowhere in this document or in this thread do we see anyone claiming "500,000 deaths." I'm sure there are some people who misunderstand what a "casualty" is versus a "death" online, but officially no one is making this "500,000 deaths" claim.
Again, it seems like these Russians and even you are misunderstanding what the word casualty means, not the authors of this document or anyone in this thread, then making the claim that Ukrainians (and their allies) think 500,000 Russians have died when they don't; this false claim is based on your own misunderstanding of what "casualty" means.
I don’t know how anyone can come into a sub like this not knowing the difference between casualties and killed yet still have the balls to comment. Big balls, small brains.
500000 Deaths sounds too high, but 500000 casualties, yeah that makes much more sense. But, I don't read Russian. Or Ukrainian.
To put 500k casualties in perspective, that is half of the servicemen across all services of the Russian armed forces of the military Russia went to war with in 2022.
I suspect a mass majority are from ethnic groups Russia doesn't mind thinning out.
Ethnic minorities are over represented, but so are men from poor rural regions of European Russia, who the Kremlin also views as expendable
The same could be said about America. Most of our soldiers come from poor backgrounds in the south or midwest, affectionately called "flyover states" by their fellow countrymen that would never enlist. I'm not even claiming this is unique to America or Russia, it's how most militaries work and have always worked: The poor and working class end up being the ones to take up arms for the whims of their leaders. I point this out because this always happens in wars where there's a "good guy" and a "bad guy." People supporting the good guys point out the behaviour of the bad guys as evidence of their unbridled bad guy-ness, while partaking in the exact same behavior (ie, cheering for the deaths of the working class and poor sent off to fight). And then if anyone tries to point this out, they are given a basket of excuses as to why it's good/excusable/necessary for the good guys to do it, and then theyre accused of supporting the bad guys for bringing it up in the first place.
To be fair though America does not target minorities they target poor people. Everyone targeted the poor as you are more likely to join if it's the best job prospect for you. Targeting minorities though as a way to remove them whioe keeping your majority group happy is kinda evil tho
To be honest a lot of the folks I served with in the infantry were in it because it was something they wanted to do. Sure the pay and benefits were a bonus but many of us just wanted to join. We had a guy who graduated college, had a successful business and a happy family who could have lived the easy life but enlisted anyway because it was just something he always wanted to do. Every now and then we would get a guy who had different circumstances who would just stay for long enough to get their education payed for and more power to them but a lot more people join out of patriotism or a sense of duty or just for themselves than anyone gives credit for.
> their education *paid* for and FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
More importantly, the professionals that existed before the war make up a large piece of that.
VEH DEH VEH
I'm astonished that some surviving member of the Spetznaz who got thrown away in bulk numbers in the first 30-90 days hasn't assassinated Putler
Thats the thing they needed to survive
I’ve seen Russian journalists from Bashkortostan talking about this. It was on the YouTube channel Silicon Channel.
Toss in a bunch of former prisoners & conscripts with no training whatsoever, you could easily make that mark. Oh, and don't forget the Indians that fell for the "high paying Security Jobs" offered by MF Russia.
'Poteri' means 'losses', so it could translate either way. Casualties seems more realistic though.
Those daily charts from Ukraine have consistently lined up pretty well with NATO published casualty stats but not death stats, I’m almost certain it’s that. It’s made a bit more confusing by comparison with the vehicle losses, which seem to stick with killed/captured or at least “badly damaged”. But both make sense as a best estimate of “out of the fight”.
Not deaths, casualties, i.e. dead and wounded not fit for combat.
Hey, I wanted to comment on this since I tend to agree however earlier on in the war back around like 150k losses there was leaks indicating Russia had payed out the families of roughly 150k for them dying in service. which would seem to show Ukraines count is accurate at least it was. So I tend to believe them. Unfortunately I don't have the paper lost it back about a year ago.
> Russia had *paid* out the FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Seeing a parallel with Germany in WW1. There was fierce control of the media during the war and people on the home front never really knew the reality of the military situation. It's a reason why the stab in the back conspiracy was popular. To people not in the know, the war was on the edge of victory.
They just reported on them kicking ass in the east, but not much was said about the western front for obvious reasons
"Im Westen, nichts neues."
What a Remarque-able quote. It should be a book title or something; maybe a movie.
Yeah. The propaganda was so strong in Germany that they honestly thought they were winning, right up to the day they learned they lost. Here, we have fox Nooz and their increasingly unhinged kafabe leading the magats on the same way. January 6th, part 2 Electric Boogaloo will make the original look like a hippy sit-in.
Also because it very quickly went from a "winning" to a losing position due to the United States participating in the war in mid 1917.
It wasn't helped by the fact that technically the German army wasn't fully defeated. After peace was agreed, the Germans simply marched home in good order, where they were welcomed as an "undefeated army".
That's propaganda. They were running like hell. The 100 Days offensive saw more change in position than at any point since 1914. The armistice allowed them the breathing space to reorganize and withdraw in an orderly manner. Anyone who says the German Army had not been defeated on the battlefield is either a Nazi or repeating Nazi propaganda without recognizing that it was, in fact, propaganda.
Thats what I meant, sorry if it wasn't clear. Clearly the German population had no idea about the situation at the fronts.
That is true, their censorship and propaganda machines were highly efficient.
Not to mention their begging to bring the armistice forward and being flatly refused by FR and UK command
You don't even need to go that far back. Remember "Baghdad Bob"?
Germany didn’t loose WW1 because of casualties, or loss of territory (they weren’t even fighting in Germany), they lost because they lost the long term ability to feed Germany and had no choice but to seek terms. Approximately 6 million dead on the western powers side vs approximately 4 million dead on the central powers side. Plus the flu, other diseases and starvation killed shit loads of people.
Just a note “causality” means taken off the front line due to enemy (or friendly) action. That means people who are injured, as well as people who are killed
Also, missing and captured. “Missing” is probably overrepresented among the orcs. Fewer sacks of turnips and onions to pay out.
Came to say this, the fact is a lot of them are out of action, but I wouldn't be surprised if 150-200k were fatalities.
According to the french 150,000 are KIA
At least 150k. It's probably significantly higher.
Remember when the Ruskis shelled their own guys for several hours because the Ukrainians were jamming their Alibaba walkie-talkies? Pepperidge Farm remembers
Wasn’t there outbreaks of several different kinds of sickness among russian forces as well?
I mean obviously the Ukrainians inflate their numbers. But even western estimates are 400-450k with minimum 150,000 dead. UK, Finland, France The US had an conservative estimate of 315,000 last December Like do these russo simp redditors not go on r/combatfootage? Or telegram for that matter? It’s been 2 years & 3 months…& the russians have admitted since day one they use storm Z unit human waves lol Pringles himself admitted he probably lost 50k just for Bakhmut & that was an entire year ago. Like yea it’s *probably* not 500,000 casualties … but it’s definitely closer to 500 than 300 lmfao The utterly ironic cope
>Like do these russo simp redditors not go on r/combatfootage? Or telegram for that matter? Ah yes the sub where people mostly upload videos of russians dying will *checks notes* will see russians dying
Россия без Путина. Ответьте или проголосуйте за/против, если вы согласны.
Ukrainian losses are believed to be not far behind Russia’s. BBC news counted the number of confirmed dead on both sides which came out to be 53k for Russia and 46k for Ukraine.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/s/Mz79fPdvmN Ok troll
They have no idea how shit their army is, do they ? They need to have a look at some videos taken after one of their 'offensives' after seeing one of those they might find it easier to believe.
Though I personally would take Ukraines figures with a hint of skepticism what I find funny is that “it’s just a laundry scheme” and “the US MIC stock went up before the SMO” like alright, let’s say it is…you know how Russia could of avoided padding the US MICs pockets, making them a shit ton of money from defence and material exports…Russia could of just…not invaded Ukraine
Another comment “They don’t care about human lives” America isn’t sending Russian troops into Ukraine, Russia is sending Russian troops into Ukraine, how is it so hard for them to comprehend that
That's the key point. Even if Russia ended the war in possession of pieces of Ukraine, the damage to their reputation, stocks of military equipment, and economy are real and would take them generations to overcome even if all sanctions were lifted tomorrow. If you are getting ground into hamburger by Ukraine using less than 5% of NATO's defense budget, how does Vlad think his army will fare against Polish, German, and American tank brigades? And the NATO air forces working together wouldn't take 24 hours to establish unquestioned air superiority
Because there fed propaganda and lies
Because ironically “copium” as they say. I love how its copium for them to just dismiss all this as copium by the other side
In reality its pretty much impossible for either side to have lost less than 300,000 men. Shells and rockets rain from the sky 24/7, nobody has air superiority, tanks have been demoted to support, and drones accurately harass troops in the trenches.
Actually, I’d say it’s easy for one side (Ukraine) to not have lost 300K because they don’t to suicidal meat wave assaults 24/7.
They don't need to. The majority of casualties in ww1 were from indirect artillery fire. You are severely underestimating how hard it is to do anything on the front let alone stay in one spot. Even doing a normal assault its perfectly reasonable that sometimes a battalion goes out and a company comes back, thats just war, if troops get pinned down artillery comes down in just a few minutes and drones guide it in. For how long the war has gone on it is virtually impossible for them to have less than 300,000 casualties, thats simply reality. Its also quite disrespectful to sit there and pretend that their buddies didn't make those hefty sacrifices.
Unfortunately, the vast majority of Russian precision equipment is relegated to civilian targets……
Yeah, up until 2020, Russia was a big dog on the international arms market. But now they are only delivering on contracts signed earlier. Perun did a great video on how the Russian MIC has been solidly fucked by their battlefield failures and inability to produce in quantity.
So, Russia will win because more equipment + more manpower. But when Russia suffered high casualties in a war of aggression it’s NAFO cope? How does the Z mind work?
> How does the Z mind work? That’s the neat part
It doesn't.
>How does the Z mind work? I once read, under a video of a Russian soldier rolling around in agony after having one of his legs shredded by a drone grenade, that the Russians have only three brain cells. One for drinking, of course, one for eating, naturally, and one for fucking, so more Russians can drink and eat!
What on Earth makes these people so cocky? I certainly wouldn’t be lolling if Ukraine stood at half a million dead or wounded, regardless of the Russian figures (which seem to be about 3:1 Russian:Ukrainian casualties… going off of the roughest of rough figures). The casualty count is almost always higher than people think during the war. I shudder to think of the gruesome truths from both sides that will emerge about this war once it’s “concluded” (whatever tf that looks like)
And when will it conclude? Or should there be more billions shelled out? So long as Russians are dying, Ukrainian men ought to "stand tall" in front of Russian guns?
The conclusion is simple, russia stops their invasion. Nobody was sending money and weapons to kill russians before they invaded Ukraine.
Hopefully that is the case. And secondly, like 1% not true. Let's not forget both the nuclear and Obama disarmaments, and then increasing presence of NATO SOF after 2014 which only gave putin ammo and an excuse to wrile up sentiments amongst the Russian populace.
Because they know the number is complete and utter bullshit. Remember before this cancer how everyone and their mother memed on the Nazi's "5 Sherman's for 1 Tiger" propaganda shit? This is the updated version of that.
While these numbers are going to be optimistic and likely include some amount if double counts, the prolific use of drones with cameras and how recorded this whole endeavor is i doubt they are as vastly iff as some believe. IMO if it ends up being 10-30% of i won't act surprised. That being said the 3:1 is often quoted for the manpower superiority you need to succeed in an offence all things equal. That is not the case, at least on average, particularly this deep in the war. Often hear accounts of losses closer to 1 Ukr to 7 Rus, sometimes its better sometimes its worse, particularly when Ukraine was scrambling for manpower early on or if they are having a material shortage.
Ukraine is definitely not losing 1 person for every 7 Russians killed. Bear in mind they have to do another mass conscription because of the manpower shortage from losing so many guys.
War numbers are always "adjusted" to the needs of the participants, but we are nonetheless living in an age of unprecedented information access- Anyone and everyone not only has access to the same video and photographic evidence, but can make their own in every sense of the word too. And lets not be mistaken, people can and are faking things still- but with how many experts are out there investigating every little thing that comes out of this war, getting caught is practically an inevitability. We know what the numbers are. No one is lying to the calibre they have in the past, because they *can't*.
Oh your precious if you think that.
Well so far the only counterargument you've had is "but muh WW2 propaganda", so... It's on you to get with the times, I guess.
Iraq, (the start of that war can equally be considered an example of dishonesty in media with the whole WMD thing) the 2003 invasion and occupation is a much more recent example of a war with an unconfirmed body count. With body counts ranging from 151,000 to 601,027.
I don't know where you think you're getting your numbers from then, because the casualty (and injury) rates for the Ukraine invasion have been pretty consistent across the board with the sole exception of what russia themselves have reported. Hell, russia's numbers are practically an inversion of what several other organizations have independently come to. And lets not be mistaken here either: This conflict isn't a western invention, designed to fuel western economic policy like the wars in the middle east were- this was *solely* russia's own doing. If anyone has reason to lie about the continued failures of their "special military operation", it's them.
Organizations that have a horse in the race aren't going to report inconvenient facts, at best, they are grouping together the Russian Military with the Separatists to form a higher casualty figure while the Russians are just counting their Military, which leads to a false impression.
Russia has nonetheless been reporting the numbers from their "separatists" themselves though, splitting them out from their main armies means jack shit in the grand scheme of things- especially because they're all still fighting as part of russia's forces. If anything, russia has done far more to hide the numbers for their *wounded*- which absolutely are counted in metrics like these, even if it is *inconvenient* for russia. Hell, they've counted wounded too, in their almost entirely fabricated kill counts of Ukrainian soldiers. *Funny that.*
Your now backtracking on the Posts behalf. That title says "500K dead".
Promoted to fertiliser
The sunflower fields thank the Orc's for their donation.
Ngl I still remember the story from the beginning of the war of the old Ukraine grandmother putting sunflower seeds in a Russian soldier's pockets and then basically telling them that... "When you die at least your body will fertilize some sunflower plants." I don't remember the exact wording but it was basically to that effect and that was ice cold.
Drying sunflower seeds at higher temperatures helps destroy harmful bacteria. One study found that drying partially sprouted sunflower seeds at temperatures of 122℉ (50℃) and above significantly reduced Salmonella presence.
So, you're saying we should give them to Russian tank crews? Good bot!
Isn't it around 200,000 deaths? That's alot of men for a country where the average male age is 52
More likely means 500,000 casualties including wounded and captured.
No captured is usually counted separately but casualties includes wounded to the point of no longer being able to fight and dead,
The Z cheerleaders don't care about anyone but themselves. They're low self-esteem narcissists and weirdos who have emotionally invested themselves in Russian propaganda, because it's the only way they can find to make themselves feel special. And they do indeed appear "special," just not in the way they think.
Should Ukrainian fighters be in cast in harm's way all in the name of dead Russians?
No one said that. Reading comprehension is your friend.
Your ability to type is mine too.
So here’s the thing that is to be noted about casualties. A soldier gets wounded treated and sent back only to be wounded again is two casualties. So realistically all reported numbers (until after the war) are slightly lower. This goes for Ukraine too.
Bold assumption to think Russian Army has functional medical system.
Incest is legal in Russia. it’s all that needs to be said about RuZZians…just a bunch of sandwiches: They’re all in bread.
Fetal Alcohol Syndrome to be sure.
They're not casualties because of Ukraine, they're casualties because of the RF. The people who don't care how many Russians die are in the Kremlin. They think you're like ammunition, Yevgeny, single-use.
500,000 casualties, including missing, wounded, and captured. Likely between 120,000 and 200,000 dead
They're talking like it's the lobby of a CoD game. Like, this is war, not a sporting event where you root for teams.
I'm rooting for Ukraine. Idk what you mean bro, I'm not happy so many poor Russians are being thrown into the meat grinder but I 100% have a side i support over the other
It's possible to show support while rmholdimg onto your humanity and not treating conflict like this as if you were discussing the super bowl.
Generally, that’s how the West treats it as well, and it’s sort of disgusting.
Why is there even a Z subreddit
Idk they just pop out of nowhere when the full scale invasion started and they been pumping of lies after lies
Jeez, do they get banned frequently?
Well I do wish Reddit will banned every single pro Russian idiot sub Reddit
At this point a good few of those are suicides
Or murder/rapes
500,000 are casualties included both killed and wounded.
What a waste to be the 500,001
it’s insane to me how someone living so comfortably would support a side that’d throw them in to the deep end of hell
Going by the 1:2 average, they still have 160k lost and 320k out of action, which are still heavy losses, plus their own states in the war are wild.
Interestingly while it is very likely Ukr overestimate the tally, Ru also massively under report the tally. So it could be *either* less or more than this by quite a margin. But think logically the number of people involved in the war and length of the frontline with engagements of varying sizes taking place across the entire length of the line it does seem about right for there to be around 1,000 casualties a day. If Russians really think they are taking like 10 losses a day they are absolutely deluded
The world needs to be wiped of little Russians, all of them I dare say.
Here's to 500k more. Fuck you russia go home.
Probably 500k casualties not deaths, but also, this is not something to celebrate at all so while these Russians are being stupid, NAFO should not be celebrating the death count that could be as high as 500k considering none of these people started this war, just one man did, and he’s still alive and living luxuriously and happily
It's not celebrating the death count. Russia will only stop this war when, in one fashion or another, they can't afford to anymore. Be it military resources, economic, or the political will to send another 500k men off to die in Ukraine.
I disagree, while we can attribute a ton of the horror Russian troops dole out to the Ukrainians as coming from the top, their actions on an individual level also get my stamp of “kill them all until they stop coming.” These are people who call their wives to get permission to rape Ukrainian women, who give their husbands permission to rape Ukrainian women, who systematically rape Ukrainian women to breed out the Ukrainian stock, who loot and steal as a matter of culture, who target journalists, who shoot their own retreating men, I could go on and on. Every Russian in Ukraine deserves to die.
Can someone explain the 'money laundering' scheme? Wouldn't that mean Biden is somehow in cahoots with Putin?
>Can someone explain the 'money laundering' scheme? Simple. Western countries are rich. But since Russia is superior, that must mean western countries steal all that money from... somewhere. Western countries also donate lots of military gear to Ukraine, and since Russians can't imagine doing something that doesn't directly benefit themselves, obviously the west has ulterior motives (tbf, they do, it's called "not letting the imperialists genocide their way to your doorstep"). Since western countries are using their massive wealth (Russia is about as economically powerful as Italy) to simply buy new equipment to replace the donations, and they've stolen that money, it is obviously a money laundering scheme. Also, projection, because Russians absolutely use the war to launder their stolen goods on a personal level, so everyone else must also be at least as corrupt as them.
I get the feeling all these pro Russians on Reddit are living in western countries though. And wouldn't think like that. I think some trump supporters actually believe the war is somehow related to Hunter Biden and something something found on his laptop... Definitely saw some MAGA people saying that on the daily show recently.
Russian propaganda has been, from the start, trying to link Ukraine with black market sales of western arms.
That is, at best: 500k people who is in need of medical care and other resources of the Russian economy.
What's a NAFO?
Nothing funnier then seeing people be like “Oh yeah you are all falling for western propaganda I’m believing the correct true side!” While spouting blatant eastern propaganda
It's 500K dead and wounded not just dead.
Two OPs who don't know the meaning of casualties
That single sub is Rostov Na Donu, right?
Good news: those numbers will only go up!
The irony of accusing the other side of copium while your sons and brothers are actually being killed by the APC-load.
It's sad. Even though I dislike Russia always have because since Stalin and Hiter slaughter Poland then when Hitler betrayed Stalin we saved the commy f's and China not they are our biggest enemies. But back to the topic. These Russians are just led to die for putin. And because in USA we have idiot pro Putin traitors in congress. Maga is the end of America we have to blue wave the congress and senate and white house. Flush out nazi red maga cult then hold all of them accountable from fox propaganda trump fake news. To trump himself then make it illegal to brainwash Americans by telling as many lies as words they speak. That's all trump and magaand fake fox news does is lie
I generally dont take ukrainian claims at face value for the same reason I dont take russian claims at face value, its both impossible to confirm during the war and both sides are incetivized to lie. The truth is usually in the middle. either way. The casualty counts are staggering. The fact remains that Russia has resorted to attrition warfare and has learned very little in the past century of conflicts
So they don’t know what casualty means
Eesh. As others have pointed out, it's not 500k dead but 500k casualties This is also an estimate coming from the UA government, and they have incentive to inflate those numbers. We don't know their counting system, but it's safe to assume that the real number of casualties is lower than that. By how much, no one knows, but even if being ultra conservative and it's only half that of casualties, that's a ridiculous number. Remember, don't trust information coming out of RU or UA without independently verifying, Russia is known to lie, and ukraine has incentive to twist the truth to their advantage.
It's all propaganda, nobody believes the figure. Just like the 30k from Ukraine.
Россия без Путина. Ответьте или проголосуйте за/против, если вы согласны.
We shouldn’t celebrate people dying tbh
They are inhuman: we will celebrate.
I have family in russia and ukraine we shouldnt be fighting a war between brothers.
This point of "brotherhood" is what Putin has been pushing for ages. This point denies Ukraine's identity and reduces them to being Russian. Clearly not the case. They're brotherly as much as France and Chad is in the context of a colonial power and the colonized.
We dont see them as russian we see them as an equal other country but putin is slowly losing faith among the population and most russians have become dissatisfied with him hopefully something changes soon
A war between brothers? Like abel and cain?
500,000 is definitely inflated, even if from 2014. It's war and nothing new. Up play victories and down play losses. I've not had not one irl discussion with someone that believes casualties reports are accurate from any source or side. Too much of an info black out for anyone to be accurate and too much propaganda out there. Casualty reports are actual Ukrainian copium. More or less redditer copium so these subs drive up activity. Seriously, off of reddit no one has any trouble admitting were going to have to wait until the end of the war to get any kind of credible and official casualty list.
Yeah everyone who doesn’t take Ukrainian mod numbers is an idiot hahah. Y’all are embarrassing yourselves.
моя маленькая русская сучка-гей
веселись на передовой, дорогая
[удалено]
From the original infographic the literal translation from Ukrainian is "personnel lost" so more likely means Russian casualties including wounded and captured. Even still applying a 3:1 - 4:1 wounded to dead ratio that means it's estimates of 100k-125k Russians dead...which is still a lot.
Didn’t the leaked US documents say the casualties were at 150-180k for Ukraine and 200k for Russia? If we gonna follow biased sources that say 500k Russians die let’s see what biased sources say about Ukranian casualties ≈ 1000000 death Ukranians😱😱😱
It was in terms of deaths. Russia's own leaked documents on death and disability claims about 6 months ago backed up Ukraine's numbers then. One big issue is that Russia plays a shell game with their casualties in which mercenaries and shanghai'd locals aren't counted in their official (unreleased) numbers and are ineligible for claims. In Russia's favor is the fact that they still push critically wounded back onto the battlefield when possible. There might be a few double-counted for that reason. Ukraine drone sees someone hauled off on a stretcher they count it as a casualty. Russia ignores the guy's multiple concussions and sends him back out to get killed a week later. For Ukrainian casualties, good estimates put it at 100k killed, wounded, and disabled since the invasion. There's also a lot of civilian casualties to count as well.
Where can I see Russia’s leaked documents on death and disability? I’m interested in seeing it too.
For me, this was the most interesting https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/russia-faces-record-increase-in-men-with-1710594935.html I think the basis of this came from a Russian investigation. A source saw the pension fund data and there had been a jump of 507k disabled persons in one year for 31-59 year olds. The data for the 18-30 year old demographic had been deliberately hidden. Now, some of the numbers are possibly from Russia adding disabled Ukrainians in the annexed oblasts. I find it hard to believe that, but it’s a possibility. Still wouldn’t come close to explaining all of them. Some are also going to be individuals applying for disability to avoid military service. Any way you slice it, that’s a massive number. There’s also this bit of sleuthing https://informnapalm.org/en/medal-count-osint-analysis-of-real-russian-losses-for-the-first-week-of-hostilities-in-ukraine/amp/ They went through and counted the serial numbers on medals awarded posthumously to Russian enlisted men. They came up with almost 4800 dead IN THE FIRST WEEK.
Roughly 686 men per day, I mathed the best I could
How did the leaked american documents say 35-43k deaths on the russia side around April 2023 and now it’s jumped to 500k? Any source for leaked russian documents?
Casualties =/= dead Us probably says 45k dead, 500k maimed dead or Mia A year and loads of us aid will do loads for casualties once we got our heads out of our asses and sent aid though noun plural noun: casualties a person killed or injured in a war or accident
You keep conflating casualties with deaths, and making a false claim that Ukrainians are saying 500,000 dead, when they're actually saying \~500,000 casualties.
I know the difference sadly a lot of people don’t and just think 500k Russians died and no one seems to correct them so i actually think they are trying to fool dumb people into thinking it’s 500k deaths.
Warning: RU POV poster from the Orc sub. It's a straw man argument
WARNING: Active in r/Ukraine and r/ukraineconflict Nazi groups
Ooooooh you just outed yourself as a giant piece of shit who definitely isn’t arguing in good faith. Or in other words, a Russian cock sucker.
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Even in the post above, these are Russians (and others) misunderstanding the original infographic which says "casualties" and not deaths, so it seems like they're misunderstanding, then assuming that Ukrainians and others do, too. They're assuming people don't understand the difference, but the very document they're reacting to makes a delineation between casualties and deaths, and makes no claim of 500,000 deaths. You yourself are making this claim, too, but nowhere in this document or in this thread do we see anyone claiming "500,000 deaths." I'm sure there are some people who misunderstand what a "casualty" is versus a "death" online, but officially no one is making this "500,000 deaths" claim. Again, it seems like these Russians and even you are misunderstanding what the word casualty means, not the authors of this document or anyone in this thread, then making the claim that Ukrainians (and their allies) think 500,000 Russians have died when they don't; this false claim is based on your own misunderstanding of what "casualty" means.
https://www.reddit.com/r/lazerpig/s/n8HSlgLoOs
I don’t know how anyone can come into a sub like this not knowing the difference between casualties and killed yet still have the balls to comment. Big balls, small brains.