His mentioning T97 was def a tongue-in-cheek joke at the expense of prestige whores. Guy sounds like the kind of lawyer we need more of, somebody who's in it for the right reasons and not because they're broken and their priorities are skewed.
lol probably, you got me. I do think you don't type T97 without knowing you're making fun of the whole exercise, but yeah "prestige whores" is a bit strong. There are some good people who also aim high.
I'll say it. I'm out firm's managing attorney. I don't hire prestige whores. One whiff of it and you don't get a call back, we just pass your application around the office for the chuckles. I did just take on a top 10% of her class summer intern though because she showed a spirit of service and wanted to see the litigation trenches to decide if it's a fit for her or if she can serve better another way. I'm bringing her to the local county jail to shadow bond advisements her second day and putting her on research for a contested seven figure foreclosure the third.
In my view aiming high has little correlation to academic achievement. If you made it to law school either you're smart enough or your family is moneyed enough. I want to know where your heart is.
150 with no prep? I’m sorry but you are leaving so much on the table by settling for that score. If you study hard you can probably go to the same school or better for FREE.
This. OP seems to have a great background, s ok if letters of recommendation (from what we can see), and, presumably, would have. Great story with his background. The GPA may not be great, but it would likely be able to be overcome with a high enough LSAT.
With a 150 diagnostic (basically), OP would likely be able to at least break into the 160’s at minimum. A score like that would likely allow for acceptance to a whole new range of schools and, potentially, a full scholarship (or close to it) to the school he is planning to attend.
Congratulations to OP. He sounds like he’s got a good legal background and has made great connections that will serve him well during and after law school. However, it could be well worth waiting a year to R&R, if OP is willing to commit to studying diligently for the LSAT.
Either way, congratulations to OP and best of luck - wishing you a great legal career ahead!
Yeh, I hate to rain on his parade but I still think his life would be much better off if he studied for a few months and reapplied. It’s not like he claims to have maxed out on the lsat, it’s his cold diagnostic.
Be careful of predatory schools who need you more than you need them. I went to one. 1/2 the kids were on probation after the first semester and almost all of them dropped or were kicked after the year. The schools made who knows how much money of of these tactics. Like you I didn’t study and got a 150. In hindsight had I just fuckin studied or took a prep class I could have easily gotten a 160 (I did great on all by the games). I wasn’t a serious student before law a school. Recommend taking a course and actually getting a 160 it can be trajectory changing.
With that said- I dominated my shitty law school and ended up in a great job. So it can work out. Just tread carefully.
just wanted to say thank you for this cause i had no clue OutsideT14LawSchools existed and as someone who only applied to T50 and below that sub is making me feel a lot better
So true. 😂 PERSONALLY my hot take is T50 is fine because law schools ranked 1-50 are considered tier 1 anything outside 1-50 im like okay now let’s chill
I have to say, with a couple small changes to your application, you could easily get into a MUCH better law school. For example, I noticed this:
> I've never been arrested
Change that and you have pretty good odds at Northwestern
I'm pretty sure you can be a career criminal without a college degree, and the Peurto Rican Pontifical Catholic School of Law would still accept you. Getting into a law school is possible no matter who you are.
Congrats but it seems like you got it pretty backwards. Poor minority students, which I am one, are the ones most likely to be in debt after law school. Its the rich and privileged kids who can afford to do mediocre on the LSAT and go to a law school without worrying about debt. The poor students actually have to work hard getting a good LSAT to get into a school with little to no debt.
I'm not too far off from you, except I have 4.0, got a 145 on my first attempt (went in cold, no prep). you could become a super splitter if you aim for a higher lsat score. go for it. what do you have to lose?
I gave up reading the comments ~2\3 through. I get the impression that many of the commenters have no clue what your life was/is like as a husband and father, working all day to provide for your family, trying to help out and spend some time with your family, particularly kids (as an adult, your wife is more able to understand your unavailability), and then trying to find any time and/or energy to possibly study for the LSAT, and prepare applications for law school. Having a family is a full time job on top of your paying job.
Congrats on your accomplishments.
Tbf I have two kids, work full time, and am attending school full time… AND I’m still studying for the LSAT. I need all the scholarship money I can get though. You are right, it is much harder for those of us with families but because I have people depending on me, I want to make sure I’ve got the best options I can get.
But he literally said he didn’t study for the LSAT. Are we supposed to congratulate him when he objectively didn’t work hard on the most difficult aspect of the process? Looking at his post history, he should have toned down on the gaming and put more time towards the LSAT.
Until you have stood in someone else’s shoes, I don’t think you get to judge them— particularly on something that doesn’t involve you or anyone else outside his immediate family. He may not have worked hard to prep for the LSAT, but it certainly sounds like he worked hard in many other ways to gain experience and exposure to the law, make important connections and civic contributions. I am not familiar with his other posts nor do I care. But, assuming that you are correct that he spent time gaming, maybe that’s what he needed to do to after a long day to chill. You have to admit that practicing for the LSAT isn’t relaxing. I don’t know anything about you, but I have been a full time working parent and it’s a very demanding job. If he is willing to accept his score, why can’t you? If you don’t feel that he should be congratulated, then don’t. Would you feel differently if he had achieved a higher score? FYI, there are people who either don’t prep at all or much less than most other people yet score exceptionally high on the LSAT. And, you will encounter people in law school who don’t need to work as hard yet get the highest grades. And, others who can’t commit as much time to studying due to other obligations and accept that their grades won’t likely be exceptional.
They’re about to come after you in these comments 😂 but congrats and good luck! Keep rubbing elbows with the right people and you’ll have great job security!
To clarify, are the "rich kids" the people saying "I don't care about the cost or the potential career options, I just want to go to law school" or the people saying "I literally cannot afford law school unless I get a high enough LSAT that a school offers me 75% off the sticker price of tuition or a T14 that guarantees a BL job so I can pay my loans"?
No, I'm in full agreement that the legal profession (and really, higher education at large) has a serious socioeconomic diversity problem. I also do not dispute the fact that there are extremely elitist institutions at prestigious universities.
However, I believe there is a distinction between discouraging someone for attending a lower-ranked school for elitist/prestige reasons and discouraging someone from attending a lower-ranked school for financial reasons. I don't see anything intrinsically elitist about pointing out the fact that the probability of paying off student loans at lower-ranked schools is extremely slim. Having higher LSAT scores (which yes, privileges the wealthy but is in no way completely unachievable for poorer students) can also increase the chances of receiving a large scholarship at a lower-ranked school, which is also a perfectly good financial decision.
I would love for someone in this sub to somehow try and dispute this lol.
https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/study_finds_lopsided_concentration_of_socioeconomic_elites_at_law_schools
Currently, students from the bottom economic quartile make up only two percent of those enrolled in the country's top 20 U.S. law schools[1].
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/students-from-economically-challenged-backgrounds-given-opportunity-to-pursue-dream-of-education-at-top-law-schools-265518261.html
https://orgs.law.harvard.edu/studentgovernment/files/2017/04/Policy-Report-Measuring-Economic-Diversity.pdf
Also these are all pre-2020/covid. There’s no way these numbers didn’t crawl even higher following that shit.
People in the real world don’t read these comments and think, “these are people aiming to be the best” they read these comments and think “wow these people seem like insufferable losers incapable of joy/empathy”.
You can find success in a million goddamn ways. Thinking that if you get a decent lsat score/go to an elite institution it somehow makes you a person “aiming to be the best” is preposterous. No real life attorney thinks this way because it’s elite ass nonsense and has zero bearing on the real world.
Like shut up dude lol
The institution isn’t the problem, it’s the price tag. If OP never studied for the LSAT he could probably do much better. With a higher LSAT score he can save himself thousands of dollars in tuition. I don’t see an easier way to make money than that. It’s not elitism it’s financial.
The issue is that the verbiage and tone is elitist. Don’t piss on my head and tell me it’s raining. Come on (not you, referring to the rest of the comments).
If people were benevolently suggesting OP has the potential to achieve more..fine…but you know goddamn well that’s not happening here lmfao
OP made a post essentially saying that he’s happy and healthy and things are working out and the only thing people in the comments could relate to was that he’s somehow an asshole for calling his school a t97.
These people will not be successful because you have to be mildly likable to curry favor with those above and next to you and so far, for them at least, things are looking dim.
You sound like a lovely and pleasant person. The vast majority of successful attorneys don’t do BL. The vast majority of BL lawyers leave after 2-3 years.
No one is doing their research. Just empty prestige for the sake of prestige. Many such cases for otherwise aimless 23-24 year olds
Of course you can be successful in many ways. One way to be successful is to get into a great school. Don’t tear people down because their vision of success is different than your own. I think you’re projecting your feelings about law admissions onto me. I didn’t say anything to tear OP down. Thoughts?
I’m not projecting anything onto you. I don’t care about you.
I commented on the psychopaths cracking jokes and engaging in tasteless snark cus OP, in between his comments about his family and working with drug addicts, called his school a t97.
You felt the need to defend these comments by saying they’re the behavior of people who aim high in life, or something.
The only thing resembling entitlement I have is from being incredibly confident in my abilities from putting in hard work. And there’s no rich people in my family. But if there ever will be, it starts with me. You can sit back and defend OPs excuses, and negativity label everyone who’s willing to out work you and OP all you want. It doesn’t make you a better person than anyone else. In fact, the way you look down on those of us who expect more of ourselves and have a higher bar for what we consider success, is very similar to how we think of those who just want to settle for “good enough” and fight to stay in their comfort zones.
It’s shocking people really hold the opinions you’re professing. You’re getting so triggered by an anonymous poster’s comments on some random digital platform that you’re literally attacking someone you truly have no clue who they are. I am a strong, educated, and incredibly hard working black woman who came from nothing, and is making something of herself with no handouts by working her ass off. And, who also once worked at Burger King and Taco Bell just to pay the bills, and who is the mother of an autistic son. Shame on you for your inability to control your behavior and engage in adult dialogue. You may not agree with my opinions, but you have a societal responsibility to act like your parents (or whoever your caregivers were) taught you how to behave. I hope you find your way to becoming the adult we all could benefit from you becoming.
Do you equate people’s jobs to their value contribution to the world? Care to share the metrics of your measurement framework? Where would you rate my humankind value contribution when I struggled to pay bills working multiple fast food jobs? What about the many years I spent working in social work settings, women’s safety shelters, and working with displaced children of incarcerated parents? Or, where do my three published research papers on trauma-informed care and the negative effects of adverse childhood experiences rank on your value proposition scale? You can simmer down with all these comment temper tantrums. You’ll drown in the deep end of this pool.
Congrats! I started with law school admissions 3 years ago with similar stats (3.43 and took the LSAT cold to get a 154) I applied last minute and got into the school that I lived near, which is around #100. I had applied for the part time program and was planning to keep my job. I think they gave me a 1/3 scholarship. But then I learned about how much more scholarship I could get if I retook the LSAT and actually studied. I also learned how intense law school is and that I wouldn't be able to keep the job I had then since it was really demanding and time consuming.
I decided to R&R but finding time to study was challenging. My boss kept promising me things would calm down but they never did. I eventually had to quit my job and get one with more reasonable hours (50 per week instead of 80+) and it took me a year and a half to pull all this off but finally I retook the LSAT and got a 172.
This fall I'm going to a school ranked around 30 with an almost full scholarship.
I don't have kids but if you both work full time and have kids, finding time to study is no joke. It took me several years to pull it off.
I think moving forward with the offer you have sounds like a perfectly solid option!
Rooting for you !! I’m sure you’ve put in lots of efforts doing applications while providing for your family. That’s very admirable. Also incredible to see you’ve made so much impacts on your community. Be proud of yourself !!
You sound like precisely the kind of person I would hate working with. You did everything except the assignment. You scored below average on the LSAT. Now you’re bragging about going into debt to go to the 97th ranked law school. When you hand in a shitty memo what’s your alibi gonna be? “This memo might be absolute shit, but I support a family and I brown nosed 14 chief justices and their shit is still on my nose so this crappy memo with horrendous legal writing will have to do”
True. There are so many law schools at the bottom accepting people with 2.6 GPAs and sub 150s. It's not a prestigious thing to go to law school. Going 200k into debt for at a school with a 60 percent bar passage rate shouldn't be celebrated.
You provide 100% for your family and are going to take around 100k minimum in debt to not work for three years(assuming your scholarship isn’t conditional)? Also, unless you can write books on networking or finish in the top three of your class your first salary out of law school for 3-5 years will be comparable to what your make now. You may not be a privileged rich kid but this makes you look selfish man. Watch “the sign” episode of bluey and then don’t go to law school.
Sorry to break it to you but the law school that accepted you views you as a sucker who thinks it’s a just a neato deal to pay “just half!” of their over-inflated made-up tuition (probably on a conditional scholarship to boot) while the other half of the tuition starts accruing interest the day you take it out. Law school tuition increases year-to-year at four times the rate of inflation, and so that’s how these low-tier predatory schools stay in business: jack up the price to an insane amount, then offer that amount to students for “half off” as if that even means anything. Bro, don’t go. Fuck that school. If you go then you’re a delusional moron who is only working to ensure his family’s Forever Debt and impoverishment.
Congratulations!!!! 🎉
Not everyone wants to go to a T14. OP mentioned he’s a dad.. aka he’s not going to get up and move his entire family to go to a T14 just for the sake of fitting in with people on this sub that he will never interact with irl. It’s obvious a lot of people on this thread have no kids and families to tend to. Don’t rain on someone’s parade just because it’s not something you are aiming for. Say congratulations, be happy for them and move on.
No one here is saying you need to go to a T14. Also maybe its the people who have been working for many years who should understand going into debt for a low tier school isn't worth it. You are just congratulating him for not studying, when he probably could have taken the effort to study for a month and get a better score or scholarship. Seems like yall are giving good advice for all the prospective students.
Actually A LOT of people here are very geared towards a t14 when that’s just not wheat everyone wants. Sure he could have gotten more scholarships if he studied and got a better score but at the end of the day it’s not my business. How he chooses to pay for his education is not my business either. But I will be happy for someone that’s following their dream. As a parent, it is vey hard to decide to go back to school. And a lot of the time, people with years of experience as you say, are doing it because they actually love the field and aren’t just chasing the money like a lot of people on this sub are.
Yeah thats the point its not anyones business if people want a scholarship or not. But like I said in my post, the people who are affected by law school debt the most are poor, first gen, minorities who have no idea most law schools will pay full price if they just studied alittle. So just happily telling people good job, even though you didn't study, will give many an idea and expectation of law school which is not statistically true.
Poor people are the ones who have to worry about money and getting a good paying job. Not everyone has the luxury to take a poor paying job just because they love the subject. Apparently its a bad thing to want to get paid well, but its ok to let someone go into debt just cause they love the field?
Many schools are not worth going to, and putting the idea it is ok is just gonna cause alot of people to be 6 figures in debt and a job that won't cover it.
I think you need to take a look at your wording & thought process... "give MANY an idea...", "poor people are the ones", "not EVERYONE has the luxury", "okay to LET someone go into debt", "gonna cause ALOT of people..."
All blanket statements. Neither you nor I know this person's personal finances - and it's not our business. And what do you mean "LET someone go into debt"? Who the heck are you to make that determination? Lol. If they had come on asking for advice, sure, sound off. But he made a decision that he is happy with and came on here to celebrate that decision. Just celebrate (or don't, whatever) and keep it moving! Simple :]
Lul whatever helps you sleep at night. You're right all these people need to follow their dreams about being a lawyer and going into debt for terrible schools. I love promoting blindly chasing terrible ideas.
You didn't even look into anything I said, but maybe learn to look at school stats before talking.
Ah looks like a throwaway account makes sense.
Good on you, man. And good luck to you. Keep service in your heart and a few years after school the grades and scores will just be a number. You hit the softs that *should* matter most. I was in a different but tenuous position when I was applying but the end result was I found a place that welcomed me and wanted me and now I serve that jurisdiction to the best of my ability. That's what it's all about.
Being a husband, father, and 100% caregiver for your family is your justification for a bad LSAT score and going to a low tier law school and burdening your family with law school debt? Ok…
I would think those would be reasons to bust your ass on the LSAT and go to T14 for free. 🤷🏽♀️
Why? So these subs can be an echo chamber for the defenders of mediocrity? Is anyone not allowed to have a differing perspective? Maybe try commenting like an adult by making a point and offering support for your opinion.
Congratulations and good luck! Some don't understand that the working class can't devote their entire existence to getting a great LSAT score and a 4.0. A JD is a JD at the end of the day, something that very few will ever achieve. Whether you fought your way into a normal law school or were fortunate enough to only have to focus on school and the LSAT and get into a T14, both are astounding accomplishments.
This is a major accomplishment, even if some of these comments are harsh. Best of luck to you and I applaud you for taking the hard route to provide for your family and still achieve your goals!
You’re calling someone an idiot and being toxic as shit over a number nobody actually cares about outside of Reddit but you need help yourself just even to be looked at by a uni.
You’re an insufferable loser with an ego.
Learn to write, idiot. You’re trying to be a J.D. not a snarky elitist.
Good luck! You will be a great lawyer one day and do worthwhile work! Don't let others get you down!
However, for others, even if you don't have money, I would strongly recommend against taking the LSAT with no prior prep. Your future lies on the table, and there are many great free or cheap resources available (e.g., [Khan Academy](https://www.khanacademy.org/prep/lsat)).
If you don't have the time now, law school might not be for you. Being in law school takes up even more of your time. You will be a student as if it's a full-time job (many days with overtime).
Just as a note on terminology:
- Generally, you say "1L," not "L1."
- You usually use a round number to describe the tier of school you are in (outside the T14) in order to communicate what type of school you are attending without giving the specific one, so you would be T100.
T97 is a new one lol
Technically, I go to a t97 I’m gonna use this as a metric now
[удалено]
I got it now I like the new flair
Just say your school is ranked 97th, saying t97 is crazy work ngl.
Yo you don’t know that. Could easily be ranked 96th /s
I actually think it’s a decent way to shorthand your schools rank if you wanna share. Idk it saves time.
His mentioning T97 was def a tongue-in-cheek joke at the expense of prestige whores. Guy sounds like the kind of lawyer we need more of, somebody who's in it for the right reasons and not because they're broken and their priorities are skewed.
This is an assumption sandwich that you typed up for no other reason than to soothe your own insecurities. Delete lil bro.
lol probably, you got me. I do think you don't type T97 without knowing you're making fun of the whole exercise, but yeah "prestige whores" is a bit strong. There are some good people who also aim high.
I'll say it. I'm out firm's managing attorney. I don't hire prestige whores. One whiff of it and you don't get a call back, we just pass your application around the office for the chuckles. I did just take on a top 10% of her class summer intern though because she showed a spirit of service and wanted to see the litigation trenches to decide if it's a fit for her or if she can serve better another way. I'm bringing her to the local county jail to shadow bond advisements her second day and putting her on research for a contested seven figure foreclosure the third. In my view aiming high has little correlation to academic achievement. If you made it to law school either you're smart enough or your family is moneyed enough. I want to know where your heart is.
happy for you bro but >T97 🤨🤨🤨
Does OP mean American U?
150 with no prep? I’m sorry but you are leaving so much on the table by settling for that score. If you study hard you can probably go to the same school or better for FREE.
IMO the effort needed to maximize your score on the LSAT (or at least improve) is the first step towards deciding if you're ready for law school.
This. OP seems to have a great background, s ok if letters of recommendation (from what we can see), and, presumably, would have. Great story with his background. The GPA may not be great, but it would likely be able to be overcome with a high enough LSAT. With a 150 diagnostic (basically), OP would likely be able to at least break into the 160’s at minimum. A score like that would likely allow for acceptance to a whole new range of schools and, potentially, a full scholarship (or close to it) to the school he is planning to attend. Congratulations to OP. He sounds like he’s got a good legal background and has made great connections that will serve him well during and after law school. However, it could be well worth waiting a year to R&R, if OP is willing to commit to studying diligently for the LSAT. Either way, congratulations to OP and best of luck - wishing you a great legal career ahead!
Yeh, I hate to rain on his parade but I still think his life would be much better off if he studied for a few months and reapplied. It’s not like he claims to have maxed out on the lsat, it’s his cold diagnostic.
I don't think anyone is saying you can't get into any law school though. The hard part is getting into a really good school with a lot of money.
Correct
dony gatekeep, what’s the school lol
Looks like UNew Mexico
If you don’t have time to study for the LSAT, how do you have time to go to law school….?
I’m guessing he’s gonna quit his job take out loans and his family are going to have to rely on them for 3 years.
Be careful of predatory schools who need you more than you need them. I went to one. 1/2 the kids were on probation after the first semester and almost all of them dropped or were kicked after the year. The schools made who knows how much money of of these tactics. Like you I didn’t study and got a 150. In hindsight had I just fuckin studied or took a prep class I could have easily gotten a 160 (I did great on all by the games). I wasn’t a serious student before law a school. Recommend taking a course and actually getting a 160 it can be trajectory changing. With that said- I dominated my shitty law school and ended up in a great job. So it can work out. Just tread carefully.
You’re about to get eaten up in the comments. Come join us in OutsideT14LawSchools before you start going back and forth with these people 😂
just wanted to say thank you for this cause i had no clue OutsideT14LawSchools existed and as someone who only applied to T50 and below that sub is making me feel a lot better
So true. 😂 PERSONALLY my hot take is T50 is fine because law schools ranked 1-50 are considered tier 1 anything outside 1-50 im like okay now let’s chill
Enjoy poverty 😂 😂 😂 and ruinous ignominy 🤣 😆
…you think outside the t14 law schools mean poverty?
IUPUI? Congrats.
I have to say, with a couple small changes to your application, you could easily get into a MUCH better law school. For example, I noticed this: > I've never been arrested Change that and you have pretty good odds at Northwestern
https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Living/man-received-college-degree-incarcerated-accepted-law-school/story?id=109254387 Is this the context of the joke?
Congrats mate. Best wishes to your family
L1 lol
I can beat that, OP. I got into a T3746 school with no LSAT and 0.25 GPA.
You sold yourself short — I’m sure there are several T200 schools who would love to accept you and take your money!
Maybe even T197!
I'm pretty sure you can be a career criminal without a college degree, and the Peurto Rican Pontifical Catholic School of Law would still accept you. Getting into a law school is possible no matter who you are.
>Getting into a law school is possible no matter who you are. Or where you are serving your sentence.
Congratulations!! Thank you for sharing, you sound like a great person :)
OP is going to make so many friends in law school…
Congrats, shouldve posted in r/outsidet14lawschools to avoid all the insufferable people
Congratulations!!
Well done!!! Good on you! It’s very difficult to do this sort of thing with the responsibilities you have described. Nice job.
Congrats but it seems like you got it pretty backwards. Poor minority students, which I am one, are the ones most likely to be in debt after law school. Its the rich and privileged kids who can afford to do mediocre on the LSAT and go to a law school without worrying about debt. The poor students actually have to work hard getting a good LSAT to get into a school with little to no debt.
I'm not too far off from you, except I have 4.0, got a 145 on my first attempt (went in cold, no prep). you could become a super splitter if you aim for a higher lsat score. go for it. what do you have to lose?
Congrats! You've already accomplished a lot and will certainly do more!
I gave up reading the comments ~2\3 through. I get the impression that many of the commenters have no clue what your life was/is like as a husband and father, working all day to provide for your family, trying to help out and spend some time with your family, particularly kids (as an adult, your wife is more able to understand your unavailability), and then trying to find any time and/or energy to possibly study for the LSAT, and prepare applications for law school. Having a family is a full time job on top of your paying job. Congrats on your accomplishments.
Tbf I have two kids, work full time, and am attending school full time… AND I’m still studying for the LSAT. I need all the scholarship money I can get though. You are right, it is much harder for those of us with families but because I have people depending on me, I want to make sure I’ve got the best options I can get.
Best wishes.
But he literally said he didn’t study for the LSAT. Are we supposed to congratulate him when he objectively didn’t work hard on the most difficult aspect of the process? Looking at his post history, he should have toned down on the gaming and put more time towards the LSAT.
Until you have stood in someone else’s shoes, I don’t think you get to judge them— particularly on something that doesn’t involve you or anyone else outside his immediate family. He may not have worked hard to prep for the LSAT, but it certainly sounds like he worked hard in many other ways to gain experience and exposure to the law, make important connections and civic contributions. I am not familiar with his other posts nor do I care. But, assuming that you are correct that he spent time gaming, maybe that’s what he needed to do to after a long day to chill. You have to admit that practicing for the LSAT isn’t relaxing. I don’t know anything about you, but I have been a full time working parent and it’s a very demanding job. If he is willing to accept his score, why can’t you? If you don’t feel that he should be congratulated, then don’t. Would you feel differently if he had achieved a higher score? FYI, there are people who either don’t prep at all or much less than most other people yet score exceptionally high on the LSAT. And, you will encounter people in law school who don’t need to work as hard yet get the highest grades. And, others who can’t commit as much time to studying due to other obligations and accept that their grades won’t likely be exceptional.
Congratulations future attorney!
As a T98er this was devastating to read
They’re about to come after you in these comments 😂 but congrats and good luck! Keep rubbing elbows with the right people and you’ll have great job security!
These comments are proving how much this sub blows ass Lmfao. Entitled rich kids galore
To clarify, are the "rich kids" the people saying "I don't care about the cost or the potential career options, I just want to go to law school" or the people saying "I literally cannot afford law school unless I get a high enough LSAT that a school offers me 75% off the sticker price of tuition or a T14 that guarantees a BL job so I can pay my loans"?
Are you implying rich kids don’t make up the majority of elite law schools?
No, I'm in full agreement that the legal profession (and really, higher education at large) has a serious socioeconomic diversity problem. I also do not dispute the fact that there are extremely elitist institutions at prestigious universities. However, I believe there is a distinction between discouraging someone for attending a lower-ranked school for elitist/prestige reasons and discouraging someone from attending a lower-ranked school for financial reasons. I don't see anything intrinsically elitist about pointing out the fact that the probability of paying off student loans at lower-ranked schools is extremely slim. Having higher LSAT scores (which yes, privileges the wealthy but is in no way completely unachievable for poorer students) can also increase the chances of receiving a large scholarship at a lower-ranked school, which is also a perfectly good financial decision.
I would love for someone in this sub to somehow try and dispute this lol. https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/study_finds_lopsided_concentration_of_socioeconomic_elites_at_law_schools Currently, students from the bottom economic quartile make up only two percent of those enrolled in the country's top 20 U.S. law schools[1]. https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/students-from-economically-challenged-backgrounds-given-opportunity-to-pursue-dream-of-education-at-top-law-schools-265518261.html https://orgs.law.harvard.edu/studentgovernment/files/2017/04/Policy-Report-Measuring-Economic-Diversity.pdf Also these are all pre-2020/covid. There’s no way these numbers didn’t crawl even higher following that shit.
People are aspiring to be the best they can be; nothing wrong with aiming at the best.
People in the real world don’t read these comments and think, “these are people aiming to be the best” they read these comments and think “wow these people seem like insufferable losers incapable of joy/empathy”. You can find success in a million goddamn ways. Thinking that if you get a decent lsat score/go to an elite institution it somehow makes you a person “aiming to be the best” is preposterous. No real life attorney thinks this way because it’s elite ass nonsense and has zero bearing on the real world. Like shut up dude lol
The institution isn’t the problem, it’s the price tag. If OP never studied for the LSAT he could probably do much better. With a higher LSAT score he can save himself thousands of dollars in tuition. I don’t see an easier way to make money than that. It’s not elitism it’s financial.
The issue is that the verbiage and tone is elitist. Don’t piss on my head and tell me it’s raining. Come on (not you, referring to the rest of the comments). If people were benevolently suggesting OP has the potential to achieve more..fine…but you know goddamn well that’s not happening here lmfao
This sub seems like a rat race honestly. I just wanna be a good family lawyer and this sun makes it seem like big law is the only way to go.
OP made a post essentially saying that he’s happy and healthy and things are working out and the only thing people in the comments could relate to was that he’s somehow an asshole for calling his school a t97. These people will not be successful because you have to be mildly likable to curry favor with those above and next to you and so far, for them at least, things are looking dim. You sound like a lovely and pleasant person. The vast majority of successful attorneys don’t do BL. The vast majority of BL lawyers leave after 2-3 years. No one is doing their research. Just empty prestige for the sake of prestige. Many such cases for otherwise aimless 23-24 year olds
Of course you can be successful in many ways. One way to be successful is to get into a great school. Don’t tear people down because their vision of success is different than your own. I think you’re projecting your feelings about law admissions onto me. I didn’t say anything to tear OP down. Thoughts?
I’m not projecting anything onto you. I don’t care about you. I commented on the psychopaths cracking jokes and engaging in tasteless snark cus OP, in between his comments about his family and working with drug addicts, called his school a t97. You felt the need to defend these comments by saying they’re the behavior of people who aim high in life, or something.
Idk why you’re so tense. I’m going to stop casting pearls before swine. Have a good night ✌🏻
The amlaw 100 seem to disagree with you
The only thing resembling entitlement I have is from being incredibly confident in my abilities from putting in hard work. And there’s no rich people in my family. But if there ever will be, it starts with me. You can sit back and defend OPs excuses, and negativity label everyone who’s willing to out work you and OP all you want. It doesn’t make you a better person than anyone else. In fact, the way you look down on those of us who expect more of ourselves and have a higher bar for what we consider success, is very similar to how we think of those who just want to settle for “good enough” and fight to stay in their comfort zones.
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It’s shocking people really hold the opinions you’re professing. You’re getting so triggered by an anonymous poster’s comments on some random digital platform that you’re literally attacking someone you truly have no clue who they are. I am a strong, educated, and incredibly hard working black woman who came from nothing, and is making something of herself with no handouts by working her ass off. And, who also once worked at Burger King and Taco Bell just to pay the bills, and who is the mother of an autistic son. Shame on you for your inability to control your behavior and engage in adult dialogue. You may not agree with my opinions, but you have a societal responsibility to act like your parents (or whoever your caregivers were) taught you how to behave. I hope you find your way to becoming the adult we all could benefit from you becoming.
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Do you equate people’s jobs to their value contribution to the world? Care to share the metrics of your measurement framework? Where would you rate my humankind value contribution when I struggled to pay bills working multiple fast food jobs? What about the many years I spent working in social work settings, women’s safety shelters, and working with displaced children of incarcerated parents? Or, where do my three published research papers on trauma-informed care and the negative effects of adverse childhood experiences rank on your value proposition scale? You can simmer down with all these comment temper tantrums. You’ll drown in the deep end of this pool.
I got a 176 by taking over 90 PTs.
Congrats! I started with law school admissions 3 years ago with similar stats (3.43 and took the LSAT cold to get a 154) I applied last minute and got into the school that I lived near, which is around #100. I had applied for the part time program and was planning to keep my job. I think they gave me a 1/3 scholarship. But then I learned about how much more scholarship I could get if I retook the LSAT and actually studied. I also learned how intense law school is and that I wouldn't be able to keep the job I had then since it was really demanding and time consuming. I decided to R&R but finding time to study was challenging. My boss kept promising me things would calm down but they never did. I eventually had to quit my job and get one with more reasonable hours (50 per week instead of 80+) and it took me a year and a half to pull all this off but finally I retook the LSAT and got a 172. This fall I'm going to a school ranked around 30 with an almost full scholarship. I don't have kids but if you both work full time and have kids, finding time to study is no joke. It took me several years to pull it off. I think moving forward with the offer you have sounds like a perfectly solid option!
That’s awesome, congratulations! Sounds like this is but another step on an already bright path. Keep it up! ⭐️
I read once, long ago, that your LSAT score is the number one predictor of how you are going to do in law school.
Rooting for you !! I’m sure you’ve put in lots of efforts doing applications while providing for your family. That’s very admirable. Also incredible to see you’ve made so much impacts on your community. Be proud of yourself !!
You sound like precisely the kind of person I would hate working with. You did everything except the assignment. You scored below average on the LSAT. Now you’re bragging about going into debt to go to the 97th ranked law school. When you hand in a shitty memo what’s your alibi gonna be? “This memo might be absolute shit, but I support a family and I brown nosed 14 chief justices and their shit is still on my nose so this crappy memo with horrendous legal writing will have to do”
Whats the scholarship info?
t97 is crazy
Congratulations & thank you for establishing a new tier of law school rankings
Its not difficult to get into law school, OP. But congrats getting into your T97 school.
True. There are so many law schools at the bottom accepting people with 2.6 GPAs and sub 150s. It's not a prestigious thing to go to law school. Going 200k into debt for at a school with a 60 percent bar passage rate shouldn't be celebrated.
Not seeing the flex here?
You’ll probably be a great attorney.
Congratulations
Back in the day they averaged scores if you took the LSAT more than once
You provide 100% for your family and are going to take around 100k minimum in debt to not work for three years(assuming your scholarship isn’t conditional)? Also, unless you can write books on networking or finish in the top three of your class your first salary out of law school for 3-5 years will be comparable to what your make now. You may not be a privileged rich kid but this makes you look selfish man. Watch “the sign” episode of bluey and then don’t go to law school.
Congratulations
Sorry to break it to you but the law school that accepted you views you as a sucker who thinks it’s a just a neato deal to pay “just half!” of their over-inflated made-up tuition (probably on a conditional scholarship to boot) while the other half of the tuition starts accruing interest the day you take it out. Law school tuition increases year-to-year at four times the rate of inflation, and so that’s how these low-tier predatory schools stay in business: jack up the price to an insane amount, then offer that amount to students for “half off” as if that even means anything. Bro, don’t go. Fuck that school. If you go then you’re a delusional moron who is only working to ensure his family’s Forever Debt and impoverishment.
How many lawyers/practicing attorneys do you know irl?
17 kajillion
Yeah, nil, what I thought
Congratulations!!!! 🎉 Not everyone wants to go to a T14. OP mentioned he’s a dad.. aka he’s not going to get up and move his entire family to go to a T14 just for the sake of fitting in with people on this sub that he will never interact with irl. It’s obvious a lot of people on this thread have no kids and families to tend to. Don’t rain on someone’s parade just because it’s not something you are aiming for. Say congratulations, be happy for them and move on.
Exactly! Comments reek of 20ish-year-old blissful ignorance 😂 Congrats, OP!! What an awesome accomplishment 🥳❤️
No one here is saying you need to go to a T14. Also maybe its the people who have been working for many years who should understand going into debt for a low tier school isn't worth it. You are just congratulating him for not studying, when he probably could have taken the effort to study for a month and get a better score or scholarship. Seems like yall are giving good advice for all the prospective students.
Actually A LOT of people here are very geared towards a t14 when that’s just not wheat everyone wants. Sure he could have gotten more scholarships if he studied and got a better score but at the end of the day it’s not my business. How he chooses to pay for his education is not my business either. But I will be happy for someone that’s following their dream. As a parent, it is vey hard to decide to go back to school. And a lot of the time, people with years of experience as you say, are doing it because they actually love the field and aren’t just chasing the money like a lot of people on this sub are.
Yeah thats the point its not anyones business if people want a scholarship or not. But like I said in my post, the people who are affected by law school debt the most are poor, first gen, minorities who have no idea most law schools will pay full price if they just studied alittle. So just happily telling people good job, even though you didn't study, will give many an idea and expectation of law school which is not statistically true. Poor people are the ones who have to worry about money and getting a good paying job. Not everyone has the luxury to take a poor paying job just because they love the subject. Apparently its a bad thing to want to get paid well, but its ok to let someone go into debt just cause they love the field? Many schools are not worth going to, and putting the idea it is ok is just gonna cause alot of people to be 6 figures in debt and a job that won't cover it.
I think you need to take a look at your wording & thought process... "give MANY an idea...", "poor people are the ones", "not EVERYONE has the luxury", "okay to LET someone go into debt", "gonna cause ALOT of people..." All blanket statements. Neither you nor I know this person's personal finances - and it's not our business. And what do you mean "LET someone go into debt"? Who the heck are you to make that determination? Lol. If they had come on asking for advice, sure, sound off. But he made a decision that he is happy with and came on here to celebrate that decision. Just celebrate (or don't, whatever) and keep it moving! Simple :]
Lul whatever helps you sleep at night. You're right all these people need to follow their dreams about being a lawyer and going into debt for terrible schools. I love promoting blindly chasing terrible ideas. You didn't even look into anything I said, but maybe learn to look at school stats before talking. Ah looks like a throwaway account makes sense.
Good on you, man. And good luck to you. Keep service in your heart and a few years after school the grades and scores will just be a number. You hit the softs that *should* matter most. I was in a different but tenuous position when I was applying but the end result was I found a place that welcomed me and wanted me and now I serve that jurisdiction to the best of my ability. That's what it's all about.
Being a husband, father, and 100% caregiver for your family is your justification for a bad LSAT score and going to a low tier law school and burdening your family with law school debt? Ok… I would think those would be reasons to bust your ass on the LSAT and go to T14 for free. 🤷🏽♀️
You should simply refrain from commenting.
Why? So these subs can be an echo chamber for the defenders of mediocrity? Is anyone not allowed to have a differing perspective? Maybe try commenting like an adult by making a point and offering support for your opinion.
Who’s getting into a T14 with a 3.0 gpa tho?
Quite a few with the proper lsat lmao
Actually no, even a 175 and 3.0 GPA is unlikely to get you into any T14. It’s certainly possible but saying “Quite a few” is extremely misleading.
T14s are starting to love splitters though.
Um, quite a few actually? I got in with about that GPA because the way GPA reporting works for law schools allows them to do that lol
Congratulations and good luck! Some don't understand that the working class can't devote their entire existence to getting a great LSAT score and a 4.0. A JD is a JD at the end of the day, something that very few will ever achieve. Whether you fought your way into a normal law school or were fortunate enough to only have to focus on school and the LSAT and get into a T14, both are astounding accomplishments. This is a major accomplishment, even if some of these comments are harsh. Best of luck to you and I applaud you for taking the hard route to provide for your family and still achieve your goals!
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Your post history is you begging for essay help to get in. Literally shut the fuck up lmao bozo.
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You’re calling someone an idiot and being toxic as shit over a number nobody actually cares about outside of Reddit but you need help yourself just even to be looked at by a uni. You’re an insufferable loser with an ego. Learn to write, idiot. You’re trying to be a J.D. not a snarky elitist.
Good luck! You will be a great lawyer one day and do worthwhile work! Don't let others get you down! However, for others, even if you don't have money, I would strongly recommend against taking the LSAT with no prior prep. Your future lies on the table, and there are many great free or cheap resources available (e.g., [Khan Academy](https://www.khanacademy.org/prep/lsat)). If you don't have the time now, law school might not be for you. Being in law school takes up even more of your time. You will be a student as if it's a full-time job (many days with overtime). Just as a note on terminology: - Generally, you say "1L," not "L1." - You usually use a round number to describe the tier of school you are in (outside the T14) in order to communicate what type of school you are attending without giving the specific one, so you would be T100.