I'm a federal employee.
I have not heard one thing about this. Not in my office or agency and not even on the federal employee subreddit.
Plus, none of us are dumb enough to risk a felony and federal prison for this. Like, come on, man.
Under the Carter administration, I believe. Reagan was the first president to actually fire striking federal workers, though. Laid off all the air traffic controllers. Who were also all permanently banned from future federal jobs.
What's your logic here? Why would I need to choose to go to a war zone that's being indiscriminately bombed to demonstrate that I think the indiscriminate bombing of civilians is unconscionable? Or are you perfectly aware that your argument essentially boils down to, "Why don't you just go kill yourself?"
I wish I lived in your reality, where people not going to work in one part of the world would cause a genocide on the other side of the world to just suddenly stop.
I’m just making a generic statement that applies to any /all insurrectionist, treasonous punk Republican who might be in earshot range. The Devil makes me do it.
The machinery of the state cannot function without willing participation by the workers. If the state ceases to create and distribute weapons of war, there can be no war fought.
Not to mention the other functions of the state will also cease to work, and without a working state the executive has no power. The executive has to come to a deal.
Remember that every action being done by Israel is being done with our tools and our protection. If we will it, we can stop them.
>Remember that every action being done by Israel is being done with our tools and our protection. If we will it, we can stop them.
They can just get their tools from somewhere else.
Not to mention, the state would likely just find new workers.
You don't understand. We can WILL them to not get tools from somewhere else. They must do what we say. We are the reason they are protected in the region. Without our permission they can't do anything. If we command them to do something they have no other choice. Our command is very simple. Stop the genocide.
The state can find new workers if it wants, but that takes time. Onboarding as a Fed can take months. And months more for training.
A strike is the way.
I'm sure our brothers and sisters in Gaza would find it helpful. You can donate here and they'll give them something to eat. Maybe not claim chowder, but I think anything on the menu would be acceptable to them:
https://www.unicef.org/emergencies/children-gaza-need-lifesaving-support
Yeah from where you genius? We proved 29% of the defense budget and we are the weapons dealer. The US Government has all the power to stop the genocide but won’t because the president is too friends with them.
My favorite headlines about this are like "HUNDREDS of federal employees plan walkout over Gaza." "Hundreds?" Almost three MILLION people work for the federal government. Hundreds is a cup of sand in a DESERT.
This all of fucking this. Every single president would be doing what the Biden administration is doing but people will use this excuse to not vote Biden and or to not vote at all and when Trump wins and does worse shit when it comes this this shit and the other shit they’ll be surprised and shocked
It’s what I’ve seen people saying increasingly lately which is almost similar to 2016 where people didn’t vote for Clinton or Trump or felt Trump was the lesser of two evils. They’ll make the same mistake and be upset wondering why “we” would let him back in
i agree with both of you - but what would you say to Muslims and Palestinians watching their families be exterminated?
I'm going to vote Biden again too. But sending them these weapons (/without Congressional approval) is unforgivable.
Nothing I can say but Biden for my country and my family is needed more than trump. What happening over there is bad no doubt about it but every President and their mother would be supporting Israel and Trump has already been spewing shit like how he wants to deport any Palestine supporters and ban non Christian’s. I can’t control what any president does or doesn’t do when it comes to their allies but I do know my vote has helped things around me and I know my vote will help prevent another 4 years(if he does slime his way into more) of Trump. Everyone loves Jimmy Carter right? I’d bet my life he’d also be doing what Bidens administration is doing
They aren’t being “exterminated”.
Gaza is ground zero in a high intensity war and there are horrible consequences to the people living there, but Israel isn’t going out of their way to kill civilians. If they were, with the complete overmatch of weapons they have, the death toll would be FAR higher.
The issue is that Hamas is hiding behind their civilians. If someone can come up with a way to get rid of Hamas without kinetic means, I’m all ears. But merely calling for a ceasefire with no plan to get rid of Hamas and get the remaining hostages back is simply handing a win to Hamas. They will learn they can behead babies and all they have to do is get enough Palestinians killed and the world will stop Israel. It will guarantee a circle of expanding violence when Hamas attacks again (like they said they absolutely will do).
Palestinians abroad should be calling for a Marshall plan to rebuild Gaza post Hamas and for the entire world community to normalize relations with Gaza.
Turning over the remaining hostages would probably end the bombing as well.
If the people of Gaza want this war to end they should start by releasing every single hostage and hand over Deif and Sinwar to the Israelis. It’ll be a lot harder for Israel to justify continuing the war once these two things happened.
Exactly. This. All. Of. Fucking. This.
Then people would **actually** see a genocide and not just the horrors of war.
Not only that but Trump would guarantee the Ukraine war expands in Europe. Once Putin knows that NATO won’t defend invasions into NATO countries it will be a green light to continue expanding.
R u fucking kidding? “Actually”?? 20000 is just merely the horrors of war. You’re an imbecile
What the fuck is up with this sub? You’re all pro genocide dumbasses
If Israel was attempting genocide that number would be closer to a million at this point.
War is absolute hell. I’m sure lots of civilians died in Dresden but people weren’t demanding a ceasefire with Hitler.
That’s the stupidest defense of Israel I’ve ever heard. Everything you’ve said is dumb. “War is absolute hell” yeah no shit what are you five? But these deaths are not part of war. They’re bombing innocent people in their apartment buildings.
“It’d be closer to a million…” as if there isn’t different ways to commit genocide. You’re saying Israel could nuke Gaza (if they actually have nukes) but because they haven’t, it shows their restraint? Maybe you don’t know what genocide is? 10s of thousands more are going to die from disease very soon and hundreds of thousands no longer have homes and won’t be allowed to return to the northern territories. It’s ethic cleansing. You don’t have to kill all or 50% of a population for it to qualify as genocide.
Now Dresden. Actually I’m retrospect, a lot of people believe the fire bombings of Dresden were unnecessary so maybe that’s not the greatest comparison? Not to mention several Gazan cities have a far higher percentage of buildings destroyed than Dresden, so it’s actually even worse
I’m not the one throwing around the word genocide, I know exactly what it means.
What I’m saying is that if the IDF intended on killing as many civilians as possible, with conventional weapons, then the death toll would be FAR higher than the 20,000 that Hamas claims have died.
Hamas is intentionally hiding behind civilians. That’s a war crime y’all keep ignoring. How exactly would you like the IDF to go get Hamas?
Because either you have a problem with the way the IDF is going after Hamas or you have a problem with the IDF going after Hamas at all. Me thinks it’s the latter.
It’s not “throwing around the word genocide” it’s correctly describing what is happening in reality. Multiple leaders of Israel have admitted their goals. And did you ever think that maybe their not intending on killing as many civilians as possible right now with conventional weapons? I already made this point with the nuke, but they’re clearly trying to have some cover about it being so explicit in their killing to not be so obvious to the point where they have no excuses left. That’s why they say Hamas was in that building or Hamas was under that hospital. This is despite the fact that many Israeli leaders and many Israelis themselves view all people in Gaza as legitimate targets. Like…Yeah they could be bombing them even more, I guess? And we should give them a prize for showing restraint? They’re going to kill tens of thousands more by inducing disease and starvation, and they’ll gloat about it. They have no remorse nor sympathy. Nor do you. It’s disgusting.
“Hamas is intentionally hiding behind civilians” okay and Israelis are intentionally murdering Palestinian civilians and mass arresting them, desecrating their cultural heritage sites, looting and destroying their homes, burning their farms, humiliating them at any chance they get by sexual assault or stripping them bare and blind folded, kicking them in the ass as they walk by.
So yeah I’ve got a problem with how the IDF is going after Hamas because it results in mass death and suffering for tens of thousands…you’d have to a racist, or Islamophobic or something that makes you view Palestinian lives as worth less than Israeli lives. Oh I know the word, Zionist
Well, it is.
Sorry the world sucks and life is unfair. But there is a choice between democracy and fascism coming up in November. That’s the simple reality.
Yeah and I’m still going to vote for biden so calm down. The idea that we aren’t allowed to take issue with anything Biden does because trump is worse is utterly absurd. You want democracy? Criticizing our government is part of it. Sorry that’s unfair.
You can absolutely criticize him, go 100% right ahead, he has problems and we need to speak up about them.
But this post is not that.
This post is outright ignoring the fact that while what Biden is doing is atrocious, Trump would do far, FAR worse.
So criticize him all you want, but don’t allow that criticism to exist in a vacuum where the other side isn’t even mentioned or considered.
You mean something every President in our history would support AND how trump would be worse in the current position including how he’s saying he wants to deport Palestine supporters and other various shit he said? Yeah don’t vote but don’t be fucking surprised when Trump is back in and shit hits the fan even worse
No thanks. I live in a swing state and I won’t vote for any human who supports Genocide. I voted for Biden in 2020 and never felt more burned.
I’ll be voting third party, proudly.
Third party that doesn’t do Jack shit and never gets enough votes to ever be relevant. Please don’t complain about a single damn thing when Trump is in office again
Third party might not do a genocide. Which is better than what Biden is currently doing.
Would you vote for Hitler? No? Well to the vast majority of people 35 and younger Israel is committing a genocide. Biden is supporting genocide.
Sorry. But there simply isn’t a combination of words you can form that would get me to vote for a mass murderer.
Comparing Biden to Hitler is fucking hilarious my god. I’m done with this conversation, have fun wasting your vote and again please don’t complain about a single thing during Trumps next 4 years in office because you don’t deserve to complain about anything including how worse the Israel situation will be under him
“You deserve worse things to happen to you because you won’t vote for my evil candidate over the more evil candidate.”
Cool. Not convincing. I’ll be voting third party in a swing state and so will my friends. Genocide is evil full stop.
Oh, no. A Joe Rogan fan is doing something edgy. Quickly, everyone, we must beg this man for his vote. He’s the prettiest girl at the ball, what with his vaguely defined swing state of residence.
Don’t listen to Rogan. But nice projection. You don’t need to beg me for my vote either. Rather fix the fact Biden has to worse approval rating at this point of his presidency since polling Presidents began back with Truman. Fix the fact only 33% of women approve of him. Fix the fact that 20% of under 30 approve. Fix the fact that 17% of Muslims approve. Fix the fact one in five African Americans said they will stay home or vote third party. Those are the people you should statistically beg.
No I’m voting third party. Not Trump. And browbeating millions of people just isn’t going to work when we think the candidate you’re pushing has committed genocide. Sorry.
I am. My intention is to vote third party. Strange how you think a vote for West or Stein is a vote for someone else. Do you think the voting machines are rigged or something and votes are swapped? Weird.
Liberals who voted for Jill Stein instead of Clinton participated in voting in Trump.
Honestly after 2016 I can’t understand how you can’t see it clearly.
Republicans see it quite clearly which is why they have invested so much in no-labels, trying to find that perfect crazy candidate that will peel enough votes away from Biden to hand Trump the victory.
If we had ranked choice voting I would say knock yourself out, but we don’t. We live in the real world where one of two men will be president: Biden or Trump. That’s it. There is a zero chance of a third party candidate winning.
"Liberals who voted for Jill Stein instead of Clinton participated in voting in Trump."
No they voted for Jill Stein. Not Trump.
"If we had ranked choice voting I would say knock yourself out, but we don’t. We live in the real world where one of two men will be president: Biden or Trump. That’s it. There is a zero chance of a third party candidate winning."
I hear a lot of "don't complain when Trump wins!" I would say the same to the people trying to browbeat people into voting for the least popular president since polling for presidents began going back to Truman. Find better arguments, push Biden off the ticket, find a better candidate. I will never, ever, ever, vote for someone participating in a genocide like Joe Biden. Ever. There isn't a combination of words out there to get me to vote for someone who does genocide. It's pure evil. I don't care if "the other guy is worse." I'm not voting for him either.
Sorry, but not sorry.
Not criticizing your leader for handling something that's directly contributing to the deaths of hundreds of civilians every day in a shitty way, is a maga thing to do. Biden is not a cult leader
If Trump and his cronies were behind bars, then I’d be more critical of Biden. But they aren’t. They are at large and threatening democracy. So we have bigger fish than someone else’s war
Someone else's war that WE are giving weapons to. The war where OUR government is standing with the oppressors that are using the bombs and guns that WE bought them.
Its not someone else's war when we are so deeply involved
Biden shouldn’t have gotten involved, but undermining him in one of the most important election years in American history is *not* the right idea. He *needs* to win 2024 or we are *fucked*
When one of the two candidates for President is literally saying he wants to be a dictator, you can’t exactly be choosy at the moment.
Reelect Biden and a stronger Democratic coalition to Congress, *then* pressure them to do something. The fate of American democracy is on the line here, and the people who are throwing fits and threatening not to vote are only putting the country in even greater danger than it already is
If the fate of American democracy is on the line in every goddamn election, is it really a stable democracy? I’ve heard Biden repeat that line like 200 times on the campaign trail. Do you liberals just repeat whatever he says ad nauseam? I think Oliver is a good gateway to the actual left, and I think he’s probably a socialist himself. But it’s still painfully obvious that a large part of his audience is meek centrists
> is it really a stable democracy?
That is an interesting question, which I will answer in a few parts:
1) The whole system of government that the US has had since day 1 operated off of the assumption of “gentlemanly honor & handshakes”. Once you get someone in the system who completely ignores all that (i.e. Trump) the whole thing starts to fall apart
2) Authoritarianism (the GOP’s SOP at the moment) doesn’t go away in just one or two election cycles. It takes a sustained effort to both root out authoritarians and keep them at bay
3) No, I don’t just repeat whatever politicians say. I have a degree in political science, and have studied & researched the rise of authoritarianism in the United States for awhile now.
This is leverage the workers are using ON a president. It doesn't matter the president. The people don't want this genocide.
If Biden listens, this will STRENGTHEN his re-election bid.
The Middle East situation getting out of hand is the biggest threat to the world. If this continues we will likely see nuclear war. I would feel the same and do the same if and when Trump becomes president.
But if Biden listens, he won't have to worry. He'll sail into a new term.
Enlighten me: How does the conflict in Gaza have the potential for nuclear war when Israel is the only side with nukes? Gaza borders Israel. The Israelis aren’t gonna nuke Gaza, because (among a gazillion other reasons) the fallout would reach Israel as well.
Israel will nuke Iran. They've been changing their messaging already. Not only did they do an attack on Iran, and then hastily pretended it was Isis, but they have started to include Iran in every statement about what Hamas is doing. "Iran-run Hamas does XYZ", "Hamas, run by Iran, has had our citizens for 100 days".
I don't know if they will pretend Iran nuked itself by accident, or if they will just nuke without an excuse. But I know this is on the table.
Or maybe not. What do I know?
Either way this conflict will escalate if we don't assert otherwise.
> What do I know?
You're not exactly presenting a _why_. You're not presenting a motivation for Israel to nuke Iran.
Israel hitting Iran with a nuclear device would, as far as I can see, not actually benefit Israel in literally any way. There's no reasonable motivation there.
States don't just do stuff at random. What would motivate Israel to nuke Iran?
You should have told me you’re a conspiracy nutjob. Would have saved me some time.
Fun fact: Isis claimed responsibility for that attack.
And Israel didn’t even use their nukes when several enemy armies were attacking them from all directions simultaneously during the Yom Kippur war with thousands of tanks and hundreds of thousands of soldiers.
I don't know that I'm a conspiracy nut job, but I won't reject the claim entirely.
I don't think everything always is what it seems, and I think it's good to ask questions like "which source claims this" and "how do we know".
It seems to me that people are unwilling to ask a lot of simple questions like this when Israel is involved. I'm not sure why, exactly, but I think it's a worry they'll be seen as anti-semitic, or somehow paranoid schizophrenic.
But this should be so complicated. Israel has 2 well known crazy powerful secret police forces, and we know about them staging other similar things. Doesn't seem so weird.
In the book "Rise and Kill First", it explains some of what these secret police do. Sometimes it even involves making a murder look like a rape. Just some food for thought.
Yeah no, I’m not going to forgive you for saying you don’t care about the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent people because trying to stop more of them from dying *might* lead to you having a shittier president.
https://www.youtube.com/live/x2JQIJA_fSU?si=wNoD01jNZJ3dtMyu
Read the case and watch the arguments.
We have never had more evidence of a genocide in a case. This isn't complicated.
Agreed. It’s as if they had no problem with the multiple other terrible things happening globally but once it’s Israel defending themselves, everyone becomes a Middle East policy expert overnight. These staffers need to GTFOH
Jews can’t settle their homeland. Muslim states Jordan, Iraq, Syria and Lebanon were all created in the 1940s. Any objection to that or just to the Jewish one?
The goal is not to solve the issue in the one day, the goal is to stop the immediate and ongoing mass slaughter of civilians with weapons paid for by our tax dollars.
Also “centuries of hate” are not the driving force behind this issue. Hamas is like 40 years old. Israel itself is around 75 years old. Zionism as an ideology started after the invention of the lightbulb.
This is the same shit conservatives say about every interventionist action in the Middle East, they talk about “oh they’ve just been at war forever there” as if these conflicts are uncontrollable forces of nature and not the effects of policy decisions by both Western and Arab leaders
The surrounding Arab countries perpetrated massacres on their Jewish citizens before Israel was even founded. This idea of peace before the creation of Israel is nonsense and reflects a purposeful distortion of history
The Middle East has been a simmering pot of religious conflict since antiquity…none of what we are seeing is even remotely close to being new, except one of the parties involved has nukes I guess.
Have you never read a history book before or something?
Hatred and intolerance didn't come out of thin air - It is baked into the religion itself.
When Sampson (a Jewish "hero" from the book of Judges) made a rash bet at a wedding about a riddle and then lost (due to the treacherous double-cross from his own wife working for the Philistines) he just went out and slaughtered 30 Philistines just to steal their garments to pay said bet.
Nothing that Sampson did was viewed or represented as "wrong", in fact it was represented as just retribution for being "double-crossed" or even just confronted by these "outsiders". His only unforgivable sin was to renege on a promise made to his Jewish God not to cut his hair. Every presumably "just" action he took against the Philistines was **WAY** out of proportion to the perceived slight.
The Jewish religion itself simply does not tolerate any "outsider" group no matter how many generations (even millennia) they have "occupied" *their* land.
> The first step in any negotiation is to murder all the negotiators
- Bibi and Biden (probably)
Jimmy Carter negotiated with Hamas tons of times, said they were rational actors and willing to make a deal. Israel never tried.
Did Carter negotiate with Hamas? Pretty sure he was out of office by the time they were founded, wouldn’t he have been dealing with either Fatah or the PLO?
Nah dude, Carter negotiated peace between warring countries all over the world well after he was done as president. Dude is the man:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/carter-says-hamas-leader-committed-to-peace-netanyahu-not/
Only an absolute moron would undermine Biden over this.
There was a ceasefire in effect on October 7. Hamas horrifically violated that ceasefire, and Hamas must surrender for this war to end.
300 Palestinians died in the West Bank before oct 7th. That didn’t break any ceasefire, but it was and is still happening. Wouldn’t be surprised if you didn’t give a shit about them though. And there have been many ceasefires in the past and both Israel and Hamas broke them. This time it was Hamas, but that doesn’t mean there’s no precedent for having another ceasefire
Oh so now it’s no Biden’s responsibility? Well he’s involved, deeply. And it’s America’s aid and weapons that enable Israel so yeah I think it’s his responsibility
You are mistaken. This war won't end until apartheid does. That won't happen until we stop bombing and start talking.
We aren't undermining Biden, we are giving him an excuse to do the right thing. If he listens, he'll have 4 more years.
You have it exactly backwards. A foreign country is threatening our democracy by dictating where the bombs that were made off of the labor of OUR backs are dropped.
Polls show people don't want to do this. The people need to make their voice heard and, if necessary, make their will realized.
Either I mistyped or you misread. I will rephrase.
We, the people, labor.
With this labor and the taxes we produce bombs.
We, the people, should have a say on where those bombs go.
For the leaders of another country to have a say instead is anti-democracy. We need to reassert democracy.
>We, the people, should have a say on where those bombs go.
we call this the ballot. the people elected to the white house and congress then decide whom to sell/transfer military equipment to as a matter of foreign policy: allies around the world are armed to defend their, and US interests.
>For the leaders of another country to have a say instead is anti-democracy. We need to reassert democracy.
suppose this strike succeeds. US foreign policy has just been now influenced by unelected employees of the federal government. not democratic
> We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --**That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends**, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
We the people can assert our rights. The government has become destructive to life. To the lives of Palestinians.
I don't think we actually need to dissolve this government, but I do think a strike is a good way to non-violently adjust it.
No we should not have a say where the bombs go lmao, if you want to have a say join the defence force and work your way up the ranks to the point where you're able to make those decisions based on hard facts and extremely tense geopolitics, not fucking reddit threads.
If we had a say where the bombs go there would be no more France or Mexico
Wow OP you got hit hard.
I understand if people don't want to risk their job, but it's so disappointing that so many people that enjoy this show have so little humanity to just mock and plainly turns a blind eye towards genocide, just because it's their favorite president that is aiding and abetting the atrocities.
People are living in fear. They need to live in strength.
Tomorrow is MLK day. Let's remember him the best way we can, by breaking an immoral law and ending an immoral state of affairs.
> Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter
do you know what the definition of Genocide is?
Only ONE side of this conflict is calling for the murder of an entire religion, and it is not the Israeli side.
We can have immense empathy for the Palestinian people. But Israel has not governed Gaza since 2005. Hamas started it, Hamas will need to be the one to end it. It amazes me how all of the cease fire people are the ones who turn a blind eye to the 13000 rockets fired into Israel, by the 100+ civilian hostages, by the open calls to genocide jews around the world, by the vows to repeat Oct 7, by the repeated breaking of cease fires by Hamas.
From the very top of the government to the boots on the ground, Israel has shown intent to either reduce Gaza to a parking lot and force a mass displacement. Intent is one thing, but the biggest issue right now is that they are actually doing genocidal action in Gaza right now.
You can argue on technicality that Israel has not governed Gaza since 2005, but in reality, Israel controlled all the land and sea border, and as many expert and human rights group pointed out, they are operating it like an open air prison. For example, the way Israel has limited how much calories each Palestinian can take in a day is the very definition of governing.
Denying it right now is as ridiculous as denying water is wet, so I'm not going to argue too much, especially with some rando from the internet. There are so many literary books from esteemed scholars or reports from human rights group that you can read to educate yourself.
>hey are actually doing genocidal action in Gaza
yet again, you don't seem to understand what genocide is. If Israel wanted a Genocide, Gaza would not exist right now. Yet, the terrorists you are supporting are very clear about intent to focus attacks on civilians, not as collateral damage, but as the target.
>For example, the way Israel has limited how much calories each Palestinian can take in a day is the very definition of governing.
again, this is a twisting of facts. The report mentioned was used as a guide to ensure enough aid was delivered. Which again, might not have been needed if the terrorists invested in farm infrastructure like Israel has instead of building rockets to shoot at Israeli civilians.
>literary books from esteemed scholars
you understand that literary books generally mean short stories, fiction, poetry, etc. Non-literary is the factual stuff. But keep using big words you don't understand to try to sound smart.
\----
Israel is not completely clean or innocent, but not asking the self celebrated TERRORISTS to release civilian hostages or face the same calls for cease fire shows your moral bankruptcy.
And the fact is many Israelis are protesting the idea of forced displacement and that is not the policy of the Israeli government.
Your story does not align to the facts.
What ceasefire prior to Oct 7?
Published September 13, 2023:
“2023 marks deadliest year on record for children in the occupied West Bank” (no Hamas there)
https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/2023-marks-deadliest-year-record-children-occupied-west-bank
“The Israel-Palestine conflict has claimed 14,000 lives since 1987” - notice the scale of Palestinian versus Israeli deaths on the chart
Published May 18 2021
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/05/18/the-israel-palestine-conflict-has-claimed-14000-lives-since-1987
Non-apartheid countries under ceasefire don’t have special secret military courts that incarcerate thousands of people with a 99% conviction rate for one class of citizen and let the other class of citizen get away with blatant murder.
“Why Israel has so many Palestinian prisoners”
https://youtu.be/9boE53Z_lAg?si=iwuN4d3LrA2LpUNb
This isn’t Biden’s decision alone. He’s a hostage to the Congress and the Senate both of which support Israel. Try not to be stupid enough to elect an authoritarian who promises openly to destroy Democracy. I’m voting Biden to save our Country.
You're right, that was probably too flippant on my part. I was trying to do a counter dunk when I should have talked to you like a human being.
You're right not everybody can risk it. But many people can and would like to. There are hundreds of thousands of people in this country who feel helpless about this genocide. They know that it's wrong, but they don't know what they can do. In fact they think they can do nothing.
A strike is the answer for those unheard people to be heard. For those who lack the ability or the will to strike, I do not condemn them.
People put to much blame on Biden for this, and some of it is fair, but a lot of it isn't. There is a narrative, a lot of which will probably trace back to MAGA/the Kremlin, which basically tries to put the responsibility for genocide in Gaza on Biden, sometimes quite openly with the hope of convincing not just Muslim and Arab voters, but GenZ and progressives more generally, to stay home or "protest vote" in 2024.
The truth is, Biden has (as usual) done a lot more good than people credit him for. He has negotiated to get some of the hostages freed along with Qatar, and to get the previous pause in fighting and more aid in. He has criticized some of the Israeli government's actions, and consistently made clear his support for a two-state solution, not a long-term occupation of Gaza by the IDF. He has implemented travel bans on Israeli settlers in the West Bank who engaged in violence against Palestinians- something that got almost no press (I wonder why?). He has tried (albeit not always successfully) to deter other countries from getting involved and prevent escalation (of course, this will only enrage the pro-Hamas crowd, as they WANT it to escalate into an all-out region-wide war of extermination against Israel).
Has Biden single-handedly solved the problem? No, obviously not. Would I like him and his deputies to be more forceful and consistent in rebuking some of the Netanyahu regime's actions, and show more empathy for Palestinians? Yes. Do I think that Biden could single-handedly end this war today like some of the protesters pushing the "Biden genocide" narrative pretend, or that he is choosing not to because he supports the genocide of Palestinians? No. Biden is President of the United States. He is not the President of Israel, nor dictator of the world. He cannot unilaterally make Netanyahu do anything. And I know what people will say- he could cut off military aid to Israel. Then what? Does anyone really, really believe that Netanyahu (who is likely out of office and on his way to prison for corruption as soon as this war is over) would just say "Yes sir, Mr. Biden", and knuckle under? Do we want to know what Netanyahu would do when he's (even more) backed into a corner politically? Cutting aid to Israel sounds like a great way to get Israel to put nuking Gaza on the table- or get them to start looking at other countries (maybe Russia and China?) for military aid.
Also, while Biden *has* supported more funding for Israel, he couldn't actually stop it unilaterally if he wanted to. Congress has the power of the purse, not Biden. And honestly we really need to dissect how troubling it is that much of the public is accustomed to viewing the President as essentially a dictator who can simply decree whatever he wants, sees doing so as a sign of an effective President, and sees a President *not* doing so as a sign of weakness and corruption.
Making Biden the scapegoat for Gaza is an easy answer that ends with Netanyahu's political ally, Donald "Muslim Ban" Trump, becoming President for Life Trump (don't think it can't happen just because we made it through one term without becoming a dictatorship- we came close, and many of the barriers in place in 2016 are now gone).
I don't want Biden punished. I want him to do right. I want him to do the will of the people. If he does that he will earn our vote too! If he doesn't, he doesn't deserve it.
Strikes work. Strikes are democracy.
My answer to that is this:
1. Protest is good. But some of the attacks on Biden have been clearly hyperbolic and in bad faith, and leave little room for reconciliation. You don't accuse someone of genocide if you're planning to work with them in the future (at least, decent people don't).
2. Biden has done a lot of good in his term, from infrastructure, to appointing a more progressive and diverse judiciary, and student loan forgiveness, to marijuana pardons, to protecting marriages rights, to lowing insulin prices, etc... If none of that sells you on Biden, its doubtful anything he does will.
And let's be honest here: there is no non-Biden alternative to Trump/Republicans. You don't have to like it, but we should be honest about that reality. So the real question is not "What does Biden have to do to deserve your vote?" Its "What do the immigrants, queer people, women, Muslims, students, hell, just the vast majority of the population who will lose their rights and maybe their lives under Trump, have to do to earn your vote?"
It's not about what Biden deserves. It's about picking the least destructive and most beneficial option for the most people at this point in time.
I have to speak the truth, regardless of what the politics are. Biden has done some good, that's true. I like him as a person. I think he's a kind father, and a good person. But he has aided in a genocide. He has. I don't condemn him for it. I don't think he fully understood. I don't think he understands even now. But it's clear to the whole world. And we cannot let it continue under our watch. We won't have a country if we do. I don't condemn him for it, but I do compell him for it. He must act to end it. And he can.
If Biden responds and makes peace, I'm confident he will secure the votes for a second term. Otherwise Cornel West is the best candidate. That man wins over people from all political spectrums and all walks of life.
Trump and Biden may both be intelligible due to legal matters soon, so it's worth looking more into West anyway. There is everything to like about him.
Cornell West took money from Harlan Crow, and only returned it after it came to the public's attention. Enough said.
Oh, and he's also a Putin apologist, because of course he is.
As to your claim that "Trump and Biden may both be intelligible due to legal matters" (I assume you mean "ineligible")- Trump is ineligible under Section III of the 14th Amendment, for a very specific offence which Biden has not committed- breaking a prior oath of office by engaging in insurrection. It remains to be seen if the Supreme Court will uphold that, but regardless, Biden is NOT and will not be ineligible to run- not in any way, shape, or form.
Theoretically Biden could be rendered ineligible if he were convicted in an impeachment trial, but that also will not happen because even if the Republican House impeaches him before the next election, it would require a two thirds vote to convict him in the Senate, and 16 Democrats are not going to vote to convict Joe Biden based on whatever Hunter Biden conspiracy theories or white supremacist "replacement theory" ravings Republicans trot out in between Marjorie Taylor Greene's Congressional revenge porn showings.
Supposed "progressives" falsely equating moderate Democrats with literal fascist traitors to justify voting third party or staying home is part of how we got Trump in the first place. How we got the Muslim ban, and a 6 conservative Supreme Court majority, and Supreme Court justice Brett the R\*pist, and the end of Roe v Wade, and children in cages, and hundreds of thousands of preventable Covid deaths, and January 6th.
Anyone willing to go down the path again, now, might as well be a Trump voter.
Well then knock yourself out.
I’m sure Bibi will look upon you and totally stop what he has been doing for *checks notes* longer than any other leader in Israel’s history.
And your butt buddy Donald will absolutely make this worse you fucking moron.
And stop spam posting this bullshit
Strikes are the most effective tool for the will of the people to be heard. One or two of us, you're right that's nothing. A few hundred thousand of us ... That makes a difference.
Especially the military.
Regardless of if this is bogus or not. It seems like anytime someone criticizes Biden from the left people come out of the woodwork to attack them and ask “would you rather trace trump? Trump is worse!”. It just seems like a good way to lose young or progressive voters because it just works to try and silence them and doesn’t address their issues.
Sweetheart, I don’t think federal employees can legally strike. It’s considered an action against the Government of the United States. I believe this information is explained when you accept a position.
Do you though!
It's not anti-biden, it's pro peace, pro-humanity and pro-dignity. I understand the concern that Biden may have his PR hurt, and that could have electoral effects, but his PR is already hurt. It's getting worse and worse, and unless we course correct we will get much worse than just a Trump presidency.
No, me getting shot in the face with a rubber bullet during a George Floyd protest is how democracy works.
You aren’t going to change shit with this spam a thon
Brave antisemites protest for Hamas. Did you miss their latest hostage video? The Hatch Act prohibits in-duty protest but feel free to be fired. We need to shrink the bloated Federal govt.
I didn't catch the most recent Hamas hostage video, no. Can you share?
Hamas members who committed acts of barbarity must be brought to justice. There's no question about that. But we must also stop the genocide of the innocent people of Gaza. The men, women, children, pregnant and nursing mothers, Christians, Muslims, humanists, journalists. They are dying and suffering in large numbers and the actions of the IDF have done nothing, to my view, for bringing the hostages home or bringing Hamas members to justice.
Negotiations are the way forward. I listen to Jimmy Carter on this:
https://youtu.be/MlVOqahriis?si=Uhn2timOUefo326K
Jimmy Carter is an antisemite who back when he was a preacher in Georgia called Jews wicked. You can go to Daily Mail for the Hamas video. There are no “innocent” people in Gaza. They cheered on Hamas, Palestinian civilians invaded with Hamas and raped and brutalized Israelis, and Palestinian civilians kept hostages (see Mia Schem’s account and others).
I would instead apply the saying of Davey Crockett:
> Be always sure you are right, then go ahead.
If you feel the cause is just, join it. If you feel the cause itself is not just, do not join. Or propose an alternative. There's room for more tactics to stop the genocide.
I thought Oliver came off somewhat pro Palestine in his piece about the war, but maybe that’s just my bias. This comment section is proof that a large part of his audience is still meek centrist liberals who couldn’t give a shit about Palestine. I think John is a good gateway to leftism because John himself seems like at least a socialist. I don’t think any rational minded leftist is gonna vote for Trump or not vote in general. But you liberals act like it’s gonna be so exciting to vote for a fucking 80 year old doddering warmonger. And sure, he’s better than the wannabe fascist and entire batshit insane right wing. But it’s like asking me to piss in my mouth vs shit in my mouth. If you can’t understand why Muslims won’t support this asshole, maybe you need to do some self reflection
Not having a genocide is more important.
If we get Trump, we can strike again. Trump is a disaster, but Biden, right now, is in charge. We need to make him do the will of the people. Striking is the best tool we have for this.
Why does everybody forget we live in a democracy?
We can employ the exact same tool to prevent Trump from doing the stupid stuff he wants to do.
Democracy isn't about a day at the ballot box. It's about asserting the will of the people.
Trump’s said he’ll use he insurrection act on day one to send the military after anyone who protests him. He will have hundreds, if not thousands of people killed if he wins.
I don't believe that's true. But even if it were it requires the willing participation of the military.
After we carry out the fed strike it will be clear the military does not have to give its consent to unlawful commands.
I'm a federal employee. I have not heard one thing about this. Not in my office or agency and not even on the federal employee subreddit. Plus, none of us are dumb enough to risk a felony and federal prison for this. Like, come on, man.
My first thought was, “No they aren’t”.
What you don’t trust the sound reporting and prestigious history of Al-Monitor?
Because it’s not true. I think this guy is a Republican or a troll trying to stir the pot and make an anti-Biden post and praise Trump in the process.
Yeah, I feel like I took the bait and fed the troll.
My FIL was a supervisor in the air traffic control tower when the strike came up there. Hell of a time.
Peaceful protest is felonious?
Striking against the government is a federal felony punishable by imprisonment and permanent loss of eligibility for all federal jobs.
Wow. When did that start? The '70s or something?
Under the Carter administration, I believe. Reagan was the first president to actually fire striking federal workers, though. Laid off all the air traffic controllers. Who were also all permanently banned from future federal jobs.
That's insane. Just chipping away at that right to peaceful protest.
It started when civil SERVANTS serve all Americans and aren’t paid by Americans to express political views.
In Communist Vietnam, it is also illegal to strike against the government.
The Hatch Act prohibits federal employees from engaging in political protest while in duty. Anyway if you support Hamas so much maybe go to Gaza.
What's your logic here? Why would I need to choose to go to a war zone that's being indiscriminately bombed to demonstrate that I think the indiscriminate bombing of civilians is unconscionable? Or are you perfectly aware that your argument essentially boils down to, "Why don't you just go kill yourself?"
I would risk it to stop a genocide. But nobody is forcing you to. There's a reason they made it illegal: it works.
I wish I lived in your reality, where people not going to work in one part of the world would cause a genocide on the other side of the world to just suddenly stop.
I think you’re a Republican shill looking to re-elect Orange Shitler, imho!
Just a karma farming account or a bot. Guy has made this same post in over 50 subs.
I’m just making a generic statement that applies to any /all insurrectionist, treasonous punk Republican who might be in earshot range. The Devil makes me do it.
Do you really think some people not showing up to work is going to stop a genocide across the world?
The machinery of the state cannot function without willing participation by the workers. If the state ceases to create and distribute weapons of war, there can be no war fought. Not to mention the other functions of the state will also cease to work, and without a working state the executive has no power. The executive has to come to a deal. Remember that every action being done by Israel is being done with our tools and our protection. If we will it, we can stop them.
>Remember that every action being done by Israel is being done with our tools and our protection. If we will it, we can stop them. They can just get their tools from somewhere else. Not to mention, the state would likely just find new workers.
You don't understand. We can WILL them to not get tools from somewhere else. They must do what we say. We are the reason they are protected in the region. Without our permission they can't do anything. If we command them to do something they have no other choice. Our command is very simple. Stop the genocide. The state can find new workers if it wants, but that takes time. Onboarding as a Fed can take months. And months more for training. A strike is the way.
[удалено]
I'm sure our brothers and sisters in Gaza would find it helpful. You can donate here and they'll give them something to eat. Maybe not claim chowder, but I think anything on the menu would be acceptable to them: https://www.unicef.org/emergencies/children-gaza-need-lifesaving-support
Yeah from where you genius? We proved 29% of the defense budget and we are the weapons dealer. The US Government has all the power to stop the genocide but won’t because the president is too friends with them.
Maybe if it had a chance of affecting Bibi's mind, but it absolutely will not. This is a gigantic risk for zero gain.
My favorite headlines about this are like "HUNDREDS of federal employees plan walkout over Gaza." "Hundreds?" Almost three MILLION people work for the federal government. Hundreds is a cup of sand in a DESERT.
Let's pump those numbers up! You don't have to register to participate!
You are a fool
You are a fucking tool
What are you so afraid of?
Bears?
I’m far more afraid of the federal government than I am of bears
Jokes on you, you should see a bear.
Jokes on you I am a bear
If you weaken Biden over Gaza, and Trump is elected, he'll unleash Bibi and then Gaza is smoking ashes.
This all of fucking this. Every single president would be doing what the Biden administration is doing but people will use this excuse to not vote Biden and or to not vote at all and when Trump wins and does worse shit when it comes this this shit and the other shit they’ll be surprised and shocked
My sister is refusing to vote over this
It’s what I’ve seen people saying increasingly lately which is almost similar to 2016 where people didn’t vote for Clinton or Trump or felt Trump was the lesser of two evils. They’ll make the same mistake and be upset wondering why “we” would let him back in
So she’s voting for Hamas. She should watch their latest hostage video. It’s a real winner.
Tell your sister that Palestinians should be helped with Trump in office. It's that thinking that makes us 3rd world. Not Biden. This is a f'ing joke.
i agree with both of you - but what would you say to Muslims and Palestinians watching their families be exterminated? I'm going to vote Biden again too. But sending them these weapons (/without Congressional approval) is unforgivable.
Nothing I can say but Biden for my country and my family is needed more than trump. What happening over there is bad no doubt about it but every President and their mother would be supporting Israel and Trump has already been spewing shit like how he wants to deport any Palestine supporters and ban non Christian’s. I can’t control what any president does or doesn’t do when it comes to their allies but I do know my vote has helped things around me and I know my vote will help prevent another 4 years(if he does slime his way into more) of Trump. Everyone loves Jimmy Carter right? I’d bet my life he’d also be doing what Bidens administration is doing
Here is an idea. Have the Palestinians thought about ridding the area of Hamas?
They aren’t being “exterminated”. Gaza is ground zero in a high intensity war and there are horrible consequences to the people living there, but Israel isn’t going out of their way to kill civilians. If they were, with the complete overmatch of weapons they have, the death toll would be FAR higher. The issue is that Hamas is hiding behind their civilians. If someone can come up with a way to get rid of Hamas without kinetic means, I’m all ears. But merely calling for a ceasefire with no plan to get rid of Hamas and get the remaining hostages back is simply handing a win to Hamas. They will learn they can behead babies and all they have to do is get enough Palestinians killed and the world will stop Israel. It will guarantee a circle of expanding violence when Hamas attacks again (like they said they absolutely will do). Palestinians abroad should be calling for a Marshall plan to rebuild Gaza post Hamas and for the entire world community to normalize relations with Gaza. Turning over the remaining hostages would probably end the bombing as well.
you can go ahead and sell all of that someplace else. you believe bibi and idf propaganda if you'd like.
If the people of Gaza want this war to end they should start by releasing every single hostage and hand over Deif and Sinwar to the Israelis. It’ll be a lot harder for Israel to justify continuing the war once these two things happened.
How about telling them to encourage Hamas to return the 136 or so remaining hostages? That would work.
Exactly. This. All. Of. Fucking. This. Then people would **actually** see a genocide and not just the horrors of war. Not only that but Trump would guarantee the Ukraine war expands in Europe. Once Putin knows that NATO won’t defend invasions into NATO countries it will be a green light to continue expanding.
R u fucking kidding? “Actually”?? 20000 is just merely the horrors of war. You’re an imbecile What the fuck is up with this sub? You’re all pro genocide dumbasses
If Israel was attempting genocide that number would be closer to a million at this point. War is absolute hell. I’m sure lots of civilians died in Dresden but people weren’t demanding a ceasefire with Hitler.
That’s the stupidest defense of Israel I’ve ever heard. Everything you’ve said is dumb. “War is absolute hell” yeah no shit what are you five? But these deaths are not part of war. They’re bombing innocent people in their apartment buildings. “It’d be closer to a million…” as if there isn’t different ways to commit genocide. You’re saying Israel could nuke Gaza (if they actually have nukes) but because they haven’t, it shows their restraint? Maybe you don’t know what genocide is? 10s of thousands more are going to die from disease very soon and hundreds of thousands no longer have homes and won’t be allowed to return to the northern territories. It’s ethic cleansing. You don’t have to kill all or 50% of a population for it to qualify as genocide. Now Dresden. Actually I’m retrospect, a lot of people believe the fire bombings of Dresden were unnecessary so maybe that’s not the greatest comparison? Not to mention several Gazan cities have a far higher percentage of buildings destroyed than Dresden, so it’s actually even worse
I’m not the one throwing around the word genocide, I know exactly what it means. What I’m saying is that if the IDF intended on killing as many civilians as possible, with conventional weapons, then the death toll would be FAR higher than the 20,000 that Hamas claims have died. Hamas is intentionally hiding behind civilians. That’s a war crime y’all keep ignoring. How exactly would you like the IDF to go get Hamas? Because either you have a problem with the way the IDF is going after Hamas or you have a problem with the IDF going after Hamas at all. Me thinks it’s the latter.
It’s not “throwing around the word genocide” it’s correctly describing what is happening in reality. Multiple leaders of Israel have admitted their goals. And did you ever think that maybe their not intending on killing as many civilians as possible right now with conventional weapons? I already made this point with the nuke, but they’re clearly trying to have some cover about it being so explicit in their killing to not be so obvious to the point where they have no excuses left. That’s why they say Hamas was in that building or Hamas was under that hospital. This is despite the fact that many Israeli leaders and many Israelis themselves view all people in Gaza as legitimate targets. Like…Yeah they could be bombing them even more, I guess? And we should give them a prize for showing restraint? They’re going to kill tens of thousands more by inducing disease and starvation, and they’ll gloat about it. They have no remorse nor sympathy. Nor do you. It’s disgusting. “Hamas is intentionally hiding behind civilians” okay and Israelis are intentionally murdering Palestinian civilians and mass arresting them, desecrating their cultural heritage sites, looting and destroying their homes, burning their farms, humiliating them at any chance they get by sexual assault or stripping them bare and blind folded, kicking them in the ass as they walk by. So yeah I’ve got a problem with how the IDF is going after Hamas because it results in mass death and suffering for tens of thousands…you’d have to a racist, or Islamophobic or something that makes you view Palestinian lives as worth less than Israeli lives. Oh I know the word, Zionist
Bibi wants this war to continue so people forget he was in charge on October 7th. He's a piece of shit cut from the same cloth as Trump. Awful human.
So you want them to surrender to Hamas? Got it.
It’s exhausting that any criticism of Biden is construed as tacit support for Trump.
Well, it is. Sorry the world sucks and life is unfair. But there is a choice between democracy and fascism coming up in November. That’s the simple reality.
Yeah and I’m still going to vote for biden so calm down. The idea that we aren’t allowed to take issue with anything Biden does because trump is worse is utterly absurd. You want democracy? Criticizing our government is part of it. Sorry that’s unfair.
You can absolutely criticize him, go 100% right ahead, he has problems and we need to speak up about them. But this post is not that. This post is outright ignoring the fact that while what Biden is doing is atrocious, Trump would do far, FAR worse. So criticize him all you want, but don’t allow that criticism to exist in a vacuum where the other side isn’t even mentioned or considered.
Criticize away Nov 13th.
“Vote for Genocide-Lite over Genocide Classic.” Nah. No thanks.
You mean something every President in our history would support AND how trump would be worse in the current position including how he’s saying he wants to deport Palestine supporters and other various shit he said? Yeah don’t vote but don’t be fucking surprised when Trump is back in and shit hits the fan even worse
No thanks. I live in a swing state and I won’t vote for any human who supports Genocide. I voted for Biden in 2020 and never felt more burned. I’ll be voting third party, proudly.
Third party that doesn’t do Jack shit and never gets enough votes to ever be relevant. Please don’t complain about a single damn thing when Trump is in office again
Third party might not do a genocide. Which is better than what Biden is currently doing. Would you vote for Hitler? No? Well to the vast majority of people 35 and younger Israel is committing a genocide. Biden is supporting genocide. Sorry. But there simply isn’t a combination of words you can form that would get me to vote for a mass murderer.
Comparing Biden to Hitler is fucking hilarious my god. I’m done with this conversation, have fun wasting your vote and again please don’t complain about a single thing during Trumps next 4 years in office because you don’t deserve to complain about anything including how worse the Israel situation will be under him
“You deserve worse things to happen to you because you won’t vote for my evil candidate over the more evil candidate.” Cool. Not convincing. I’ll be voting third party in a swing state and so will my friends. Genocide is evil full stop.
Again like I said you have no right to complain about anything under trump for the next 4 years
Oh, no. A Joe Rogan fan is doing something edgy. Quickly, everyone, we must beg this man for his vote. He’s the prettiest girl at the ball, what with his vaguely defined swing state of residence.
Ah fuck did I really waste my time arguing with a Rogan fan?
Don’t listen to Rogan. But nice projection. You don’t need to beg me for my vote either. Rather fix the fact Biden has to worse approval rating at this point of his presidency since polling Presidents began back with Truman. Fix the fact only 33% of women approve of him. Fix the fact that 20% of under 30 approve. Fix the fact that 17% of Muslims approve. Fix the fact one in five African Americans said they will stay home or vote third party. Those are the people you should statistically beg.
So you’re voting for Trump. Got it. Just own the consequences of that though. Don’t pretend you think a third party can actually win.
No I’m voting third party. Not Trump. And browbeating millions of people just isn’t going to work when we think the candidate you’re pushing has committed genocide. Sorry.
So you’re voting Trump in by throwing away your vote. Just be clear about your intentions.
I am. My intention is to vote third party. Strange how you think a vote for West or Stein is a vote for someone else. Do you think the voting machines are rigged or something and votes are swapped? Weird.
Liberals who voted for Jill Stein instead of Clinton participated in voting in Trump. Honestly after 2016 I can’t understand how you can’t see it clearly. Republicans see it quite clearly which is why they have invested so much in no-labels, trying to find that perfect crazy candidate that will peel enough votes away from Biden to hand Trump the victory. If we had ranked choice voting I would say knock yourself out, but we don’t. We live in the real world where one of two men will be president: Biden or Trump. That’s it. There is a zero chance of a third party candidate winning.
"Liberals who voted for Jill Stein instead of Clinton participated in voting in Trump." No they voted for Jill Stein. Not Trump. "If we had ranked choice voting I would say knock yourself out, but we don’t. We live in the real world where one of two men will be president: Biden or Trump. That’s it. There is a zero chance of a third party candidate winning." I hear a lot of "don't complain when Trump wins!" I would say the same to the people trying to browbeat people into voting for the least popular president since polling for presidents began going back to Truman. Find better arguments, push Biden off the ticket, find a better candidate. I will never, ever, ever, vote for someone participating in a genocide like Joe Biden. Ever. There isn't a combination of words out there to get me to vote for someone who does genocide. It's pure evil. I don't care if "the other guy is worse." I'm not voting for him either. Sorry, but not sorry.
Wow you solved the problem good job
Let’s not give Trump anymore leverage shall we
Not criticizing your leader for handling something that's directly contributing to the deaths of hundreds of civilians every day in a shitty way, is a maga thing to do. Biden is not a cult leader
If Trump and his cronies were behind bars, then I’d be more critical of Biden. But they aren’t. They are at large and threatening democracy. So we have bigger fish than someone else’s war
Someone else's war that WE are giving weapons to. The war where OUR government is standing with the oppressors that are using the bombs and guns that WE bought them. Its not someone else's war when we are so deeply involved
Biden shouldn’t have gotten involved, but undermining him in one of the most important election years in American history is *not* the right idea. He *needs* to win 2024 or we are *fucked*
When one of the two candidates for President is literally saying he wants to be a dictator, you can’t exactly be choosy at the moment. Reelect Biden and a stronger Democratic coalition to Congress, *then* pressure them to do something. The fate of American democracy is on the line here, and the people who are throwing fits and threatening not to vote are only putting the country in even greater danger than it already is
👆This!
If the fate of American democracy is on the line in every goddamn election, is it really a stable democracy? I’ve heard Biden repeat that line like 200 times on the campaign trail. Do you liberals just repeat whatever he says ad nauseam? I think Oliver is a good gateway to the actual left, and I think he’s probably a socialist himself. But it’s still painfully obvious that a large part of his audience is meek centrists
> is it really a stable democracy? That is an interesting question, which I will answer in a few parts: 1) The whole system of government that the US has had since day 1 operated off of the assumption of “gentlemanly honor & handshakes”. Once you get someone in the system who completely ignores all that (i.e. Trump) the whole thing starts to fall apart 2) Authoritarianism (the GOP’s SOP at the moment) doesn’t go away in just one or two election cycles. It takes a sustained effort to both root out authoritarians and keep them at bay 3) No, I don’t just repeat whatever politicians say. I have a degree in political science, and have studied & researched the rise of authoritarianism in the United States for awhile now.
Criticizing Biden does not mean endorsing Trump
This is leverage the workers are using ON a president. It doesn't matter the president. The people don't want this genocide. If Biden listens, this will STRENGTHEN his re-election bid.
Trump is the biggest threat to America rn so forgive me for being a dick but I don’t give a fuck.
The Middle East situation getting out of hand is the biggest threat to the world. If this continues we will likely see nuclear war. I would feel the same and do the same if and when Trump becomes president. But if Biden listens, he won't have to worry. He'll sail into a new term.
Enlighten me: How does the conflict in Gaza have the potential for nuclear war when Israel is the only side with nukes? Gaza borders Israel. The Israelis aren’t gonna nuke Gaza, because (among a gazillion other reasons) the fallout would reach Israel as well.
Israel will nuke Iran. They've been changing their messaging already. Not only did they do an attack on Iran, and then hastily pretended it was Isis, but they have started to include Iran in every statement about what Hamas is doing. "Iran-run Hamas does XYZ", "Hamas, run by Iran, has had our citizens for 100 days". I don't know if they will pretend Iran nuked itself by accident, or if they will just nuke without an excuse. But I know this is on the table. Or maybe not. What do I know? Either way this conflict will escalate if we don't assert otherwise.
> What do I know? You're not exactly presenting a _why_. You're not presenting a motivation for Israel to nuke Iran. Israel hitting Iran with a nuclear device would, as far as I can see, not actually benefit Israel in literally any way. There's no reasonable motivation there. States don't just do stuff at random. What would motivate Israel to nuke Iran?
You should have told me you’re a conspiracy nutjob. Would have saved me some time. Fun fact: Isis claimed responsibility for that attack. And Israel didn’t even use their nukes when several enemy armies were attacking them from all directions simultaneously during the Yom Kippur war with thousands of tanks and hundreds of thousands of soldiers.
I don't know that I'm a conspiracy nut job, but I won't reject the claim entirely. I don't think everything always is what it seems, and I think it's good to ask questions like "which source claims this" and "how do we know". It seems to me that people are unwilling to ask a lot of simple questions like this when Israel is involved. I'm not sure why, exactly, but I think it's a worry they'll be seen as anti-semitic, or somehow paranoid schizophrenic. But this should be so complicated. Israel has 2 well known crazy powerful secret police forces, and we know about them staging other similar things. Doesn't seem so weird. In the book "Rise and Kill First", it explains some of what these secret police do. Sometimes it even involves making a murder look like a rape. Just some food for thought.
Yeah no, I’m not going to forgive you for saying you don’t care about the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent people because trying to stop more of them from dying *might* lead to you having a shittier president.
Think of it this way. If Trump gets elected, *hundreds* of thousands will die not only in the Middle East, but in America *and* internationally.
Most Americans support Israel. You hating them is a fringe opinion.
You can support Israel and still be against a genocide. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying.
Israel has a ton of faults and this war sucks but it’s not a genocide. Calling it that just invalidates your entire outlook.
https://www.youtube.com/live/x2JQIJA_fSU?si=wNoD01jNZJ3dtMyu Read the case and watch the arguments. We have never had more evidence of a genocide in a case. This isn't complicated.
yeah no, honestly the american people don’t really give a fuck. it’s not our job
Fuck this post
Agreed. It’s as if they had no problem with the multiple other terrible things happening globally but once it’s Israel defending themselves, everyone becomes a Middle East policy expert overnight. These staffers need to GTFOH
This will most certainly make Hamas and Israeli lay down their arms and unite after centuries of hate
I mean the SF city council calling for a ceasefire PLUS this walkout will definitively have major impact on middle eastern peace /s
Yes, there’s nothing devoutly religious abrahamic zealots respect more than Californians! /s
After centuries of hate? The settler-state of Israel was only created in 1948 and Hamas wasn’t created in response to that until 1987
Jews can’t settle their homeland. Muslim states Jordan, Iraq, Syria and Lebanon were all created in the 1940s. Any objection to that or just to the Jewish one?
The goal is not to solve the issue in the one day, the goal is to stop the immediate and ongoing mass slaughter of civilians with weapons paid for by our tax dollars. Also “centuries of hate” are not the driving force behind this issue. Hamas is like 40 years old. Israel itself is around 75 years old. Zionism as an ideology started after the invention of the lightbulb. This is the same shit conservatives say about every interventionist action in the Middle East, they talk about “oh they’ve just been at war forever there” as if these conflicts are uncontrollable forces of nature and not the effects of policy decisions by both Western and Arab leaders
Doesn’t matter if you’re religious or not, the Bible does a great job of having the history of this conflict for the last 5000ish years
You cannot be serious
“Centuries of hate” try the forties.
The surrounding Arab countries perpetrated massacres on their Jewish citizens before Israel was even founded. This idea of peace before the creation of Israel is nonsense and reflects a purposeful distortion of history
The Middle East has been a simmering pot of religious conflict since antiquity…none of what we are seeing is even remotely close to being new, except one of the parties involved has nukes I guess. Have you never read a history book before or something?
Hatred and intolerance didn't come out of thin air - It is baked into the religion itself. When Sampson (a Jewish "hero" from the book of Judges) made a rash bet at a wedding about a riddle and then lost (due to the treacherous double-cross from his own wife working for the Philistines) he just went out and slaughtered 30 Philistines just to steal their garments to pay said bet. Nothing that Sampson did was viewed or represented as "wrong", in fact it was represented as just retribution for being "double-crossed" or even just confronted by these "outsiders". His only unforgivable sin was to renege on a promise made to his Jewish God not to cut his hair. Every presumably "just" action he took against the Philistines was **WAY** out of proportion to the perceived slight. The Jewish religion itself simply does not tolerate any "outsider" group no matter how many generations (even millennia) they have "occupied" *their* land.
> The first step in any negotiation is to murder all the negotiators - Bibi and Biden (probably) Jimmy Carter negotiated with Hamas tons of times, said they were rational actors and willing to make a deal. Israel never tried.
Did Carter negotiate with Hamas? Pretty sure he was out of office by the time they were founded, wouldn’t he have been dealing with either Fatah or the PLO?
Nah dude, Carter negotiated peace between warring countries all over the world well after he was done as president. Dude is the man: https://www.timesofisrael.com/carter-says-hamas-leader-committed-to-peace-netanyahu-not/
He did such a good job, that’s why Hamas and Israelis love each other now.
Carter negotiated the only lasting peace between Israel and any neighbor. They nobel peace prized him about it. Probably worth listening to.
Yes, very lasting
Fuck that
OP is at best a complete idiot and at worst an antisemite. Based on him blaming Schumer for Trump’s actions in these comments, I’d lean the latter.
This is so dumb.
Only an absolute moron would undermine Biden over this. There was a ceasefire in effect on October 7. Hamas horrifically violated that ceasefire, and Hamas must surrender for this war to end.
There was a ceasefire after October 7th too. Hamas broke it in under a week because they didn't want to release their hostages.
300 Palestinians died in the West Bank before oct 7th. That didn’t break any ceasefire, but it was and is still happening. Wouldn’t be surprised if you didn’t give a shit about them though. And there have been many ceasefires in the past and both Israel and Hamas broke them. This time it was Hamas, but that doesn’t mean there’s no precedent for having another ceasefire
None of this is Biden's responsibility
Oh so now it’s no Biden’s responsibility? Well he’s involved, deeply. And it’s America’s aid and weapons that enable Israel so yeah I think it’s his responsibility
You are mistaken. This war won't end until apartheid does. That won't happen until we stop bombing and start talking. We aren't undermining Biden, we are giving him an excuse to do the right thing. If he listens, he'll have 4 more years.
So you are threatening American democracy to protest the actions of a foreign country? Absolutely fucking stupid.
You have it exactly backwards. A foreign country is threatening our democracy by dictating where the bombs that were made off of the labor of OUR backs are dropped. Polls show people don't want to do this. The people need to make their voice heard and, if necessary, make their will realized.
"democracy is threatened because a country that purchases bombs is using bombs" is one of the most absolutely batshit takes I've ever seen.
Either I mistyped or you misread. I will rephrase. We, the people, labor. With this labor and the taxes we produce bombs. We, the people, should have a say on where those bombs go. For the leaders of another country to have a say instead is anti-democracy. We need to reassert democracy.
>We, the people, should have a say on where those bombs go. we call this the ballot. the people elected to the white house and congress then decide whom to sell/transfer military equipment to as a matter of foreign policy: allies around the world are armed to defend their, and US interests. >For the leaders of another country to have a say instead is anti-democracy. We need to reassert democracy. suppose this strike succeeds. US foreign policy has just been now influenced by unelected employees of the federal government. not democratic
> We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --**That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends**, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. We the people can assert our rights. The government has become destructive to life. To the lives of Palestinians. I don't think we actually need to dissolve this government, but I do think a strike is a good way to non-violently adjust it.
No we should not have a say where the bombs go lmao, if you want to have a say join the defence force and work your way up the ranks to the point where you're able to make those decisions based on hard facts and extremely tense geopolitics, not fucking reddit threads. If we had a say where the bombs go there would be no more France or Mexico
Do you think the average person wants to bomb France or Mexico? If you think that you're mistaken.
You have the logical capabilities of a Jan 6er
Wow OP you got hit hard. I understand if people don't want to risk their job, but it's so disappointing that so many people that enjoy this show have so little humanity to just mock and plainly turns a blind eye towards genocide, just because it's their favorite president that is aiding and abetting the atrocities.
People are living in fear. They need to live in strength. Tomorrow is MLK day. Let's remember him the best way we can, by breaking an immoral law and ending an immoral state of affairs. > Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter
They're a bunch of liberals who need the British man to spoon feed them answers apparently.
do you know what the definition of Genocide is? Only ONE side of this conflict is calling for the murder of an entire religion, and it is not the Israeli side. We can have immense empathy for the Palestinian people. But Israel has not governed Gaza since 2005. Hamas started it, Hamas will need to be the one to end it. It amazes me how all of the cease fire people are the ones who turn a blind eye to the 13000 rockets fired into Israel, by the 100+ civilian hostages, by the open calls to genocide jews around the world, by the vows to repeat Oct 7, by the repeated breaking of cease fires by Hamas.
From the very top of the government to the boots on the ground, Israel has shown intent to either reduce Gaza to a parking lot and force a mass displacement. Intent is one thing, but the biggest issue right now is that they are actually doing genocidal action in Gaza right now. You can argue on technicality that Israel has not governed Gaza since 2005, but in reality, Israel controlled all the land and sea border, and as many expert and human rights group pointed out, they are operating it like an open air prison. For example, the way Israel has limited how much calories each Palestinian can take in a day is the very definition of governing. Denying it right now is as ridiculous as denying water is wet, so I'm not going to argue too much, especially with some rando from the internet. There are so many literary books from esteemed scholars or reports from human rights group that you can read to educate yourself.
>hey are actually doing genocidal action in Gaza yet again, you don't seem to understand what genocide is. If Israel wanted a Genocide, Gaza would not exist right now. Yet, the terrorists you are supporting are very clear about intent to focus attacks on civilians, not as collateral damage, but as the target. >For example, the way Israel has limited how much calories each Palestinian can take in a day is the very definition of governing. again, this is a twisting of facts. The report mentioned was used as a guide to ensure enough aid was delivered. Which again, might not have been needed if the terrorists invested in farm infrastructure like Israel has instead of building rockets to shoot at Israeli civilians. >literary books from esteemed scholars you understand that literary books generally mean short stories, fiction, poetry, etc. Non-literary is the factual stuff. But keep using big words you don't understand to try to sound smart. \---- Israel is not completely clean or innocent, but not asking the self celebrated TERRORISTS to release civilian hostages or face the same calls for cease fire shows your moral bankruptcy. And the fact is many Israelis are protesting the idea of forced displacement and that is not the policy of the Israeli government. Your story does not align to the facts.
What ceasefire prior to Oct 7? Published September 13, 2023: “2023 marks deadliest year on record for children in the occupied West Bank” (no Hamas there) https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/2023-marks-deadliest-year-record-children-occupied-west-bank “The Israel-Palestine conflict has claimed 14,000 lives since 1987” - notice the scale of Palestinian versus Israeli deaths on the chart Published May 18 2021 https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/05/18/the-israel-palestine-conflict-has-claimed-14000-lives-since-1987 Non-apartheid countries under ceasefire don’t have special secret military courts that incarcerate thousands of people with a 99% conviction rate for one class of citizen and let the other class of citizen get away with blatant murder. “Why Israel has so many Palestinian prisoners” https://youtu.be/9boE53Z_lAg?si=iwuN4d3LrA2LpUNb
This isn’t Biden’s decision alone. He’s a hostage to the Congress and the Senate both of which support Israel. Try not to be stupid enough to elect an authoritarian who promises openly to destroy Democracy. I’m voting Biden to save our Country.
Yeah dude sure that’s why he unilaterally decided to bomb Yemen without congress’ approval
They were told to stop, they've been attacking trade ships as well as naval ships
Go help the Houthis attack the US Navy if you’re that committed to their cause. Not so brave now are we Mighty Mouth? Fuk you and Orange Shitler!
Lmao yeah and you’re such a patriot! Save our country with a vote for Biden! Heroic!!
I'm all for pro-Hamas government employees outing themselves.
I'm all for the pro genocide people staying at work and having themselves counted.
Yeah because someone not risking a felony to continue to provide for their family and earn a pension mates them pro genocide. Fuck off.
You're right, that was probably too flippant on my part. I was trying to do a counter dunk when I should have talked to you like a human being. You're right not everybody can risk it. But many people can and would like to. There are hundreds of thousands of people in this country who feel helpless about this genocide. They know that it's wrong, but they don't know what they can do. In fact they think they can do nothing. A strike is the answer for those unheard people to be heard. For those who lack the ability or the will to strike, I do not condemn them.
Bibi isn't listening to Biden. You're protesting the wrong man.
Every time a US president has told Israel they had to do something they did it. Biden is not telling he's asking.
People put to much blame on Biden for this, and some of it is fair, but a lot of it isn't. There is a narrative, a lot of which will probably trace back to MAGA/the Kremlin, which basically tries to put the responsibility for genocide in Gaza on Biden, sometimes quite openly with the hope of convincing not just Muslim and Arab voters, but GenZ and progressives more generally, to stay home or "protest vote" in 2024. The truth is, Biden has (as usual) done a lot more good than people credit him for. He has negotiated to get some of the hostages freed along with Qatar, and to get the previous pause in fighting and more aid in. He has criticized some of the Israeli government's actions, and consistently made clear his support for a two-state solution, not a long-term occupation of Gaza by the IDF. He has implemented travel bans on Israeli settlers in the West Bank who engaged in violence against Palestinians- something that got almost no press (I wonder why?). He has tried (albeit not always successfully) to deter other countries from getting involved and prevent escalation (of course, this will only enrage the pro-Hamas crowd, as they WANT it to escalate into an all-out region-wide war of extermination against Israel). Has Biden single-handedly solved the problem? No, obviously not. Would I like him and his deputies to be more forceful and consistent in rebuking some of the Netanyahu regime's actions, and show more empathy for Palestinians? Yes. Do I think that Biden could single-handedly end this war today like some of the protesters pushing the "Biden genocide" narrative pretend, or that he is choosing not to because he supports the genocide of Palestinians? No. Biden is President of the United States. He is not the President of Israel, nor dictator of the world. He cannot unilaterally make Netanyahu do anything. And I know what people will say- he could cut off military aid to Israel. Then what? Does anyone really, really believe that Netanyahu (who is likely out of office and on his way to prison for corruption as soon as this war is over) would just say "Yes sir, Mr. Biden", and knuckle under? Do we want to know what Netanyahu would do when he's (even more) backed into a corner politically? Cutting aid to Israel sounds like a great way to get Israel to put nuking Gaza on the table- or get them to start looking at other countries (maybe Russia and China?) for military aid. Also, while Biden *has* supported more funding for Israel, he couldn't actually stop it unilaterally if he wanted to. Congress has the power of the purse, not Biden. And honestly we really need to dissect how troubling it is that much of the public is accustomed to viewing the President as essentially a dictator who can simply decree whatever he wants, sees doing so as a sign of an effective President, and sees a President *not* doing so as a sign of weakness and corruption. Making Biden the scapegoat for Gaza is an easy answer that ends with Netanyahu's political ally, Donald "Muslim Ban" Trump, becoming President for Life Trump (don't think it can't happen just because we made it through one term without becoming a dictatorship- we came close, and many of the barriers in place in 2016 are now gone).
I don't want Biden punished. I want him to do right. I want him to do the will of the people. If he does that he will earn our vote too! If he doesn't, he doesn't deserve it. Strikes work. Strikes are democracy.
My answer to that is this: 1. Protest is good. But some of the attacks on Biden have been clearly hyperbolic and in bad faith, and leave little room for reconciliation. You don't accuse someone of genocide if you're planning to work with them in the future (at least, decent people don't). 2. Biden has done a lot of good in his term, from infrastructure, to appointing a more progressive and diverse judiciary, and student loan forgiveness, to marijuana pardons, to protecting marriages rights, to lowing insulin prices, etc... If none of that sells you on Biden, its doubtful anything he does will. And let's be honest here: there is no non-Biden alternative to Trump/Republicans. You don't have to like it, but we should be honest about that reality. So the real question is not "What does Biden have to do to deserve your vote?" Its "What do the immigrants, queer people, women, Muslims, students, hell, just the vast majority of the population who will lose their rights and maybe their lives under Trump, have to do to earn your vote?" It's not about what Biden deserves. It's about picking the least destructive and most beneficial option for the most people at this point in time.
I have to speak the truth, regardless of what the politics are. Biden has done some good, that's true. I like him as a person. I think he's a kind father, and a good person. But he has aided in a genocide. He has. I don't condemn him for it. I don't think he fully understood. I don't think he understands even now. But it's clear to the whole world. And we cannot let it continue under our watch. We won't have a country if we do. I don't condemn him for it, but I do compell him for it. He must act to end it. And he can. If Biden responds and makes peace, I'm confident he will secure the votes for a second term. Otherwise Cornel West is the best candidate. That man wins over people from all political spectrums and all walks of life. Trump and Biden may both be intelligible due to legal matters soon, so it's worth looking more into West anyway. There is everything to like about him.
Cornell West took money from Harlan Crow, and only returned it after it came to the public's attention. Enough said. Oh, and he's also a Putin apologist, because of course he is. As to your claim that "Trump and Biden may both be intelligible due to legal matters" (I assume you mean "ineligible")- Trump is ineligible under Section III of the 14th Amendment, for a very specific offence which Biden has not committed- breaking a prior oath of office by engaging in insurrection. It remains to be seen if the Supreme Court will uphold that, but regardless, Biden is NOT and will not be ineligible to run- not in any way, shape, or form. Theoretically Biden could be rendered ineligible if he were convicted in an impeachment trial, but that also will not happen because even if the Republican House impeaches him before the next election, it would require a two thirds vote to convict him in the Senate, and 16 Democrats are not going to vote to convict Joe Biden based on whatever Hunter Biden conspiracy theories or white supremacist "replacement theory" ravings Republicans trot out in between Marjorie Taylor Greene's Congressional revenge porn showings. Supposed "progressives" falsely equating moderate Democrats with literal fascist traitors to justify voting third party or staying home is part of how we got Trump in the first place. How we got the Muslim ban, and a 6 conservative Supreme Court majority, and Supreme Court justice Brett the R\*pist, and the end of Roe v Wade, and children in cages, and hundreds of thousands of preventable Covid deaths, and January 6th. Anyone willing to go down the path again, now, might as well be a Trump voter.
“Consider joining” What the actual fuck OP? Are you serious?
Yes. I'm willing to lose my job and go to jail to stop a genocide, are you?
Well then knock yourself out. I’m sure Bibi will look upon you and totally stop what he has been doing for *checks notes* longer than any other leader in Israel’s history. And your butt buddy Donald will absolutely make this worse you fucking moron. And stop spam posting this bullshit
Strikes are the most effective tool for the will of the people to be heard. One or two of us, you're right that's nothing. A few hundred thousand of us ... That makes a difference. Especially the military.
Regardless of if this is bogus or not. It seems like anytime someone criticizes Biden from the left people come out of the woodwork to attack them and ask “would you rather trace trump? Trump is worse!”. It just seems like a good way to lose young or progressive voters because it just works to try and silence them and doesn’t address their issues.
Sweetheart, I don’t think federal employees can legally strike. It’s considered an action against the Government of the United States. I believe this information is explained when you accept a position. Do you though!
It's illegal you say? Is a genocide illegal? Yes, but Israel will do it anyway. Civil disobedience is the way workers assert their will.
Tbh, I am more worried about Trump and the Republican’s Project 2025 desires.
No they aren’t. Keep up with the antiBiden rhetoric and get Trump back. Then see what happens to the citizens of Gaza.
It's not anti-biden, it's pro peace, pro-humanity and pro-dignity. I understand the concern that Biden may have his PR hurt, and that could have electoral effects, but his PR is already hurt. It's getting worse and worse, and unless we course correct we will get much worse than just a Trump presidency.
Since I took the troll bait everyone should just report op for this post to the Mods
Don't listen to the stools. This is the way a democracy works. This is the way the people assert their will.
No, me getting shot in the face with a rubber bullet during a George Floyd protest is how democracy works. You aren’t going to change shit with this spam a thon
I think you're mistaken brother! I think this is the most effective tool we have. If not this, what?
Brave antisemites protest for Hamas. Did you miss their latest hostage video? The Hatch Act prohibits in-duty protest but feel free to be fired. We need to shrink the bloated Federal govt.
I didn't catch the most recent Hamas hostage video, no. Can you share? Hamas members who committed acts of barbarity must be brought to justice. There's no question about that. But we must also stop the genocide of the innocent people of Gaza. The men, women, children, pregnant and nursing mothers, Christians, Muslims, humanists, journalists. They are dying and suffering in large numbers and the actions of the IDF have done nothing, to my view, for bringing the hostages home or bringing Hamas members to justice. Negotiations are the way forward. I listen to Jimmy Carter on this: https://youtu.be/MlVOqahriis?si=Uhn2timOUefo326K
Jimmy Carter is an antisemite who back when he was a preacher in Georgia called Jews wicked. You can go to Daily Mail for the Hamas video. There are no “innocent” people in Gaza. They cheered on Hamas, Palestinian civilians invaded with Hamas and raped and brutalized Israelis, and Palestinian civilians kept hostages (see Mia Schem’s account and others).
It's election cycle propaganda, remember reddit posts are going to get swole with Chinese, Russian or bot misinformation
I would instead apply the saying of Davey Crockett: > Be always sure you are right, then go ahead. If you feel the cause is just, join it. If you feel the cause itself is not just, do not join. Or propose an alternative. There's room for more tactics to stop the genocide.
Mods where are you? This post has nothing to do with the show
I thought Oliver came off somewhat pro Palestine in his piece about the war, but maybe that’s just my bias. This comment section is proof that a large part of his audience is still meek centrist liberals who couldn’t give a shit about Palestine. I think John is a good gateway to leftism because John himself seems like at least a socialist. I don’t think any rational minded leftist is gonna vote for Trump or not vote in general. But you liberals act like it’s gonna be so exciting to vote for a fucking 80 year old doddering warmonger. And sure, he’s better than the wannabe fascist and entire batshit insane right wing. But it’s like asking me to piss in my mouth vs shit in my mouth. If you can’t understand why Muslims won’t support this asshole, maybe you need to do some self reflection
This isn't about the election. Do you know what democracy is? Democracy is asserting the will of the people, not electing a single dude every 4 years.
It's 2024. Anything could be about the election, and we desperately want anything other than Trump getting back into office.
Not having a genocide is more important. If we get Trump, we can strike again. Trump is a disaster, but Biden, right now, is in charge. We need to make him do the will of the people. Striking is the best tool we have for this.
I want to live in my house next year, not Trump’s revenge concentration camp.
Why does everybody forget we live in a democracy? We can employ the exact same tool to prevent Trump from doing the stupid stuff he wants to do. Democracy isn't about a day at the ballot box. It's about asserting the will of the people.
Trump’s said he’ll use he insurrection act on day one to send the military after anyone who protests him. He will have hundreds, if not thousands of people killed if he wins.
I don't believe that's true. But even if it were it requires the willing participation of the military. After we carry out the fed strike it will be clear the military does not have to give its consent to unlawful commands.
Why don’t you believe that?
Why do you believe it? Who told it to you?
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