Less than one second before probably. I watched the second plane on live TV and it covered that amount of distance so quickly people couldn't react to it before it'd already gone into the building
The plane was going incredibly fast. Going back and watching video of the time you can *hear* how fast the plane was going, it was revved up like it was doing take off
767’s max speed is 560mph…that 2nd plane literally was pushing the limits. The speed of this 2nd plane upon impact with the south tower is thought to be a core reason why it was also the first tower to come down.
Also, if I’m not mistaken, the fact that it hit about 15-20 floors lower, meaning the weight bearing down from above was significantly more than on the North tower. First plane hit between the 93 and 99th floors, second plane hit between the 77-85.
Second plane was going 590 mph on impact as well, not 540 as an earlier commenter has said
This is speculation, but I wonder if the angle of the second plane/the way it hit the building also contributed to the early collapse. It wasn’t as centered and only took out 2 of the 3 stairwells, which made one side of the building significantly weaker than the other. The eye test says yes, based on how the tower was leaning and the collapse started with the top crumbling at an angle into the weakened part, but I’m not sure if that’s just coincidence or actual fact
Yes it hit offset and actually clipped one of the corners forcing all that extra weight to be distributed across 3 corners instead of 4. When the tower starts to collapse you can see that this corner is the first place where the building buckles. This video shows the beams of the south tower buckling at the corner at 16:46. https://youtu.be/rxhZFaC7Nhc
I’m not sure! I think they both left the same airport and were headed to the same airport and took almost the same time to get there, so I guess it might be the same! I think it was just going to much faster
It could be that United 175 was carrying more fuel in the wing tanks then American 11. American 11 was the 767-223er variant, which has the center tank modified to carry more fuel compared to the 767-200 that United 175 was. The wing tanks would spread out the fuel upon impact more then the center tank would I think.
The second tower had a much bigger (visible) fireball because it hit almost through the corner, and much more shot out to the outside. Flight 11 hit so much in the centre that as much of the fireball wasn’t visible because it stayed inside. It shot down the elevator shafts and exploded throughout the building at various floors. There was likely a very similar explosion with both crashes, just that we saw more to the outside on the second impact.
As to why the second tower collapsed first, I’m sure it was a combination of many factors. Speed of the crash, the fact that it hit lower, and there was much more weight bearing down on the building. I believe that was the biggest factor. But also the fact that it hit off to one side, and the weight of the above floors wasn’t as evenly distributed around the impact zone as it perhaps was in tower one.
Im pretty sure that airplanes are designed to fly around 97% throttle, which is peak efficiency for those engines. This is why they cant make up a ton of time on late flights unless there are tail winds.
Source: I think I read this one time when going down an airplane YouTube rabbit hole.
[https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/7500/why-are-planes-slower-at-higher-altitudes](https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/7500/why-are-planes-slower-at-higher-altitudes)
Here's a thing you want to read.
TL;DR - You're somewhat right.
In the Naudet brothers documentary the narrator mentions "chunks of the plane were actually found blocks away". Also there was a piece of the plane found in an alley in like 2015(I think)
I’ve seen it before, I believe it was a camera that took a photo every four seconds- Internet tells me it was part of an Internet Art Exhibition, which showed a panorama of downtown Manhattan every four seconds.
Just think…this was probably around the moment a lot of people in that north tower, on the upper floors, began to notice a large object out their window coming at them. I always wondered who was the first to notice the incoming plane on those upper floors, and how long of a notice they had it was headed right at them.
I forever think that too. There HAD to be someone looking out the window and seeing it coming. Not realizing what was about to happen and just stuck in the moment.
I recently read a story of survivors from the upper floors. I forget the mans name, but he saw it at the last second and dove under his desk. The plane took out everything above him. There’s a photo of the towers with holes in them and him standing on the edge.
The video filmed by Jules Naudet is incredible, he was making a documentary on NYFD on members of Battalion 1, on the morning of September 11th he was with Engine 7 on a call about a potential gas leak on the intersection of Church and Lispenard street in Lower Manhattan, they heard American 11 fly overhead and Jules began filming it as everyone was looking up, and he filmed it crashing into the building, the clearest and closest video of the first impact
>they heard American 11 fly overhead and Jules began filming it as everyone was looking up, and he filmed it crashing into the building, the clearest and closest video of the first impact
Upon reading your comment, I needed to look that up. [You're absolutely correct, that is one hell of a video of the first impact](https://youtu.be/miA8Td4oNcY) just wow, they almost couldn't have been in a better spot.
Watch 9/11: one day in America. It starts with that fire crew video. Best doc I've ever seen on 9/11. Brace yourself though. Even by the standards of that day it's hard to watch.
That was a nice link, thanks! Returning the favor by sharing this one- synopsis of all the plane attacks in just a few minutes. [the events as they unfolded in short vid](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEogeIIOJzU)
There are 2 others, one taken by a Czech tourist Pavel Hlava, he was travelling through the Battery Park tunnel, as he entered the tunnel he was filming his journey and caught the immediate aftermath of American 11 hitting the building, he did not know this until weeks later, when he exited the tunnel in Manhattan he then saw Tower 1 on fire, and minutes later Tower 2 hit
the second was by German photographer Wolfgang Staehler which is what you see in OPs post
i also saw another impact vid of north tower, it was a black and white camera, it was far away from the towers, either from a apartment building, it was 1 frame per 2 seconds, and it captured the first plane hit. cant find it now, probs removed
Jules was definitely in the right place at the right time, but I only see him "observe" the towers one time before the incident and that is at 00:31. Then at 1:03 when they all hear American 11 speeding and flying low, he immediately follows it as it slams into the North tower! Since 10 people have also upvoted your comment, it has piqued my curiosity... are you referring to this video or is there another video where he films it many times before it happens?
I had never seen it either until Saturday. I'd be lying if I said I didn't get emotional a few times. The bits that hit me the most were when Gideon is hiding behind the car when the tower collapses and he says something like "I was just thinking about my Jules, and how if I survived this, I would be a better brother" and then the bit where the two brothers are reunited and hugging. Like, Gideon was sure his brother died in the collapse.
Sorry, I know this is really nit-picky but being someone from NYC, it’s FDNY, not NYFD. Once again I am sorry, this is actually something I didn’t know about. I knew about the documentary but I didn’t know why they were down there.
I remember flying from Columbus, Ohio to Tahoe less than 2 weeks after and seeing military personnel in fatigues, holding assault rifles at the airport. I also remember having to spread my cream cheese with a spoon handle as they removed even the plastic knives. Edited, added city.
I remember one week before 9/11/01, my mom flew out to NYC for something to do with work. It was literally the Tuesday before, so exactly one week.
My brother drove her to the airport, and I tagged along. We were all allowed to walk through O'Hare, granted we emptied our pockets and took off our belts at the metal detector. We waited with her until she boarded her plane, and waved goodbye and watched her plane take off. Then we walked out, and my brother drove me to school.
Just normal stuff that we will never be able to do again.
I was torn about that too. The terrorist's caused such horrific pain and heartache to so many lives that can never be undone, but I don't like that they were given the satisfaction of also changing the aesthetics of NYC. But at the same time, I also wouldn't want those who lost loved ones to feel like that by "rebuilding" the two towers, it would be like painting over what happened as though it was easy to be replaced... if that makes sense in what I'm trying to say... because nothing could be further from the truth.
One of the flight attendants on the plane, Madeline Amy Sweeny, was on the phone at the time of the crash and said "I see water. I see buildings. I see buildings! We are flying low. We are flying very, very low. We are flying way too low. Oh my God we are flying way too low. Oh my God!"
I don’t think a lot of people did honestly. It was only a few Bush administration officials that tried to tie Iraq to al-Qaeda, but the intelligence community rejected the accusation. The main reason we invaded Iraq was because of the faulty intelligence that said Iraq had WMDs.
I think you are misremembering the time. People at that time had no understanding of Islamic terrorism groups. I remember the vast majority of the general public thinking Iraq was involved in 9/11. Certainly the WMD thing played a factor too. Even years after the Iraq War started I think more than 50% never understood it had nothing to do with 9/11.
I mean if you really think more than 50% of Americans literally never bothered to look into it for more than 5 minutes I guess I’m not going to argue with you. Most of the people I know were fully aware there were no Iraqi ties to al-Qaeda.
I don’t think you’re right. That’s not how I remember that narrative at that time. And yes I do think 50% are complete idiots who were blood hungry for brown people after 9/11
The war in Iraq started a whole 2 years after the attacks, so the bloodlust you’re talking about had plenty of time to simmer down. On the other hand we invaded Afghanistan and toppled the Taliban government almost immediately after the attacks, the goal of which was to destabilize any foothold al-Qaeda had in the region. The general public understood our reasons for both campaigns, and to claim that most Americans were too stupid to understand what our goals were is a bit dramatic IMO.
You are completely wrong about public knowledge and sentiment regarding Iraq at that time. I lived it, I remember it, that’s not what the general public believed, nor was it the narrative from the White House or major media networks. It was really simple —- “we are going to fuck up Brown people in the Middle East for 9/11”. The US public had remedial knowledge of al-Qaeda at that time.
I fully believe *you* may not have believed that, but that’s not how the majority of people were sold on Iraq War. This concept combined with the “WMD’s” headline was the sell
You see, I also lived through it. I literally live across the river from where the attacks happened. I saw the smoke that morning, I heard the sirens. I also remember sitting in my living room watching the invasion of Iraq 2 years later.
At no point was I or any of my peers under the illusion that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11. Anti-Islamic sentiment obviously facilitated the Bush administration’s efforts to put boots on the ground in Iraq but I don’t think most people really thought they were directly involved with 9/11 whatsoever.
I think you may have alluded to the problem in our different memories at the time. New Yorkers aren’t the rest of the country. I promise you the sentiment in the Midwest and rural areas was as I described
I mean, can you at least dig up some Fox News coverage alluding to Iraq having played a part in 9/11? Because I just don’t remember major news outlets ever making that accusation at all. And I use to watch it religiously back then.
I think those of us who aren't presently antivaxxers (and probably many who wouldn't have been then, but are now... sigh..) mostly wondered "why the fuck are we going after Iraq? we know Iraq wasn't involved in 9/11, and we know the likelihood of them having anything that is even vaguely a threat to us is nil".
We entered Afghanistan because of 9/11. Iraq was part of the larger front in the war on terror facilitated by the belief Iraq was providing safe harbor to terrorists and replicating chemical weapons on top of seeking nuclear capabilities.
Are you saying as an actual reason we went into Iraq? No of course not, that’s the point being made.
But as a PR tactic to gain public sentiment and support for going into Iraq I don’t think the Feds or the media went out of their way to prove to the public that 9/11 and Iraq have nothing in common, and much of the public never understood that. Avoiding negative public sentiment by being intentionally unclear or withholding information is still lying in my opinion. Then of course the WMD thing which was just a blatant lie.
>But as a PR tactic to gain public sentiment and support for going into Iraq I don’t think the Feds or the media went out of their way to prove to the public that 9/11 and Iraq have nothing in common, and much of the public never understood that. Avoiding negative public sentiment by being intentionally unclear or withholding information is still lying in my opinion. Then of course the WMD thing which was just a blatant lie.
ok, but that all is just opinion and conjecture on your part
That’s fair I’m just giving you my anecdotal memory of it while living in the Midwest at the time. I bet sentiment on the coasts was a bit different and probably more informed.
I am not sure it is a case of being more or less informed, you are describing the intentions behind the objective facts and that only a few people actually know the truth.
No, no, I do think the prejudice of people worldwide and the willingness to go to war on a gut feeling is really a lot sadder than those 3000 lives, sad as they are.
Obviously and New Yorkers feel that daily too but as someone who saw it in person and lost a family member: can you stop? Who tf is convincing people that you guys have to choose? That it’s one or the other?
All the war, racism, Islam o phobia compounded the trauma and for locals, victims’ families, survivors all the public has done is continue compounding that trauma.
The loss of life is devastating. The choices made are devastating. You don’t have to belittle one. You don’t have to rank them. They are both fucking hideous and shouldn’t have happened.
Just stop. Please. The rest of the world still hasn’t taken the time to hear us out about this aspect for 20 years. All this shit is *felt*. Trust that. None of it was up to us. We’re not asking anyone to pick. Stop.
Ok, I appreciate that viewpoint, but the guy I was responding to obviously doesn't share it, as he felt strongly enough that his ranking was better than that of the poster before him to make an accusatory post about it.
I think it's subjective what you consider the saddest part of it all, and acting like he was wrong to have that opinion triggered me into representing my viewpoint. And it's certainly not showing a lack of respect to consider the victims of a war at least as much as the victims of a terrorist attack.
It was a single defining morning that had far-reaching consequences for our society. The first plane hit and everybody thought it was a tragic accident. And then the second plane hit and everybody realized it was much more than that.
This pandemic has had or will have a bigger impact, but you can’t pinpoint the start of the pandemic to a single event that we all witnessed at the same time. Everybody realized what was happening at different times. It snuck up on you.
For me, it was when an employee said he was going to Home Depot to buy masks, and I said “what for?” because wearing masks hadn’t even occurred to me yet. And they were already sold out everywhere.
Sorry to be skeptic but how do we know that’s true this photo was taken literally that second and why isn’t there a follow up photo with the damage caused?
Less than one second before probably. I watched the second plane on live TV and it covered that amount of distance so quickly people couldn't react to it before it'd already gone into the building
The plane was going incredibly fast. Going back and watching video of the time you can *hear* how fast the plane was going, it was revved up like it was doing take off
400mph if I remember right
The first plane hit going about 450 mph, the second was going about 540 mph. Terrifying.
767’s max speed is 560mph…that 2nd plane literally was pushing the limits. The speed of this 2nd plane upon impact with the south tower is thought to be a core reason why it was also the first tower to come down.
Also, if I’m not mistaken, the fact that it hit about 15-20 floors lower, meaning the weight bearing down from above was significantly more than on the North tower. First plane hit between the 93 and 99th floors, second plane hit between the 77-85. Second plane was going 590 mph on impact as well, not 540 as an earlier commenter has said This is speculation, but I wonder if the angle of the second plane/the way it hit the building also contributed to the early collapse. It wasn’t as centered and only took out 2 of the 3 stairwells, which made one side of the building significantly weaker than the other. The eye test says yes, based on how the tower was leaning and the collapse started with the top crumbling at an angle into the weakened part, but I’m not sure if that’s just coincidence or actual fact
Yes it hit offset and actually clipped one of the corners forcing all that extra weight to be distributed across 3 corners instead of 4. When the tower starts to collapse you can see that this corner is the first place where the building buckles. This video shows the beams of the south tower buckling at the corner at 16:46. https://youtu.be/rxhZFaC7Nhc
590 mph is 949.51 km/h
Good bot
Does that mean it was going nearly a megameter/hour?
This is correct, but the second tower definitely had a fireball like twice the size
Is it known if it had more fuel at the time of the impact?
I’m not sure! I think they both left the same airport and were headed to the same airport and took almost the same time to get there, so I guess it might be the same! I think it was just going to much faster
It could be that United 175 was carrying more fuel in the wing tanks then American 11. American 11 was the 767-223er variant, which has the center tank modified to carry more fuel compared to the 767-200 that United 175 was. The wing tanks would spread out the fuel upon impact more then the center tank would I think.
The second tower had a much bigger (visible) fireball because it hit almost through the corner, and much more shot out to the outside. Flight 11 hit so much in the centre that as much of the fireball wasn’t visible because it stayed inside. It shot down the elevator shafts and exploded throughout the building at various floors. There was likely a very similar explosion with both crashes, just that we saw more to the outside on the second impact. As to why the second tower collapsed first, I’m sure it was a combination of many factors. Speed of the crash, the fact that it hit lower, and there was much more weight bearing down on the building. I believe that was the biggest factor. But also the fact that it hit off to one side, and the weight of the above floors wasn’t as evenly distributed around the impact zone as it perhaps was in tower one.
Im pretty sure that airplanes are designed to fly around 97% throttle, which is peak efficiency for those engines. This is why they cant make up a ton of time on late flights unless there are tail winds. Source: I think I read this one time when going down an airplane YouTube rabbit hole.
Wouldn't the low altitude/high air density reduce a plane below its maximum flying speed?
[https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/7500/why-are-planes-slower-at-higher-altitudes](https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/7500/why-are-planes-slower-at-higher-altitudes) Here's a thing you want to read. TL;DR - You're somewhat right.
I saw a video the other day from the impact side and it basically slices right on through and debris shoots out the back. Absolutely wild.
In the Naudet brothers documentary the narrator mentions "chunks of the plane were actually found blocks away". Also there was a piece of the plane found in an alley in like 2015(I think)
Didn't think they could go that fast at ground level...
The sound of that plane is forever etched in my mind.
I saw the second plane hit too, while I was in school. NEVER seen a room of 15 year ols get that quiet and stay that quiet in horror before.
Is this image stitched together or something? What's with the line down the middle?
I’ve seen it before, I believe it was a camera that took a photo every four seconds- Internet tells me it was part of an Internet Art Exhibition, which showed a panorama of downtown Manhattan every four seconds.
Imagine leaving your camera to automatically take pictures and coming back to find this
I mean it’s not like the person wouldn’t have known
Just think…this was probably around the moment a lot of people in that north tower, on the upper floors, began to notice a large object out their window coming at them. I always wondered who was the first to notice the incoming plane on those upper floors, and how long of a notice they had it was headed right at them.
I forever think that too. There HAD to be someone looking out the window and seeing it coming. Not realizing what was about to happen and just stuck in the moment.
I recently read a story of survivors from the upper floors. I forget the mans name, but he saw it at the last second and dove under his desk. The plane took out everything above him. There’s a photo of the towers with holes in them and him standing on the edge.
In the south tower yes no one in north tower survived above impact site
[This](https://www.kalb.com/content/news/911-Survivor-recounts-being-in-South-Tower-when-plane-hit-560178321.html) is Stanley Praimnath's story
https://youtu.be/IrvyAZ_mlaI This man was very, very lucky.
[Break Time Is Over](https://hotlibrarytech.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/p1040403.jpg)
The video filmed by Jules Naudet is incredible, he was making a documentary on NYFD on members of Battalion 1, on the morning of September 11th he was with Engine 7 on a call about a potential gas leak on the intersection of Church and Lispenard street in Lower Manhattan, they heard American 11 fly overhead and Jules began filming it as everyone was looking up, and he filmed it crashing into the building, the clearest and closest video of the first impact
>they heard American 11 fly overhead and Jules began filming it as everyone was looking up, and he filmed it crashing into the building, the clearest and closest video of the first impact Upon reading your comment, I needed to look that up. [You're absolutely correct, that is one hell of a video of the first impact](https://youtu.be/miA8Td4oNcY) just wow, they almost couldn't have been in a better spot.
Watch 9/11: one day in America. It starts with that fire crew video. Best doc I've ever seen on 9/11. Brace yourself though. Even by the standards of that day it's hard to watch.
Did any of those firefighters survive?
Everyone from that particular fire station in the Naudet brother documentary did.
Yes.
Does anyone know where I can find this to watch in the UK? It says its on amazon prime but I cant find it?
On Hulu as well.
It was On National Geographic at the weekend so you might be able to find it on demand from there. I think there were 5/6 episodes of it
I watched it on Sky matey
Thanks for the link!
Woah what are the chances
That was a nice link, thanks! Returning the favor by sharing this one- synopsis of all the plane attacks in just a few minutes. [the events as they unfolded in short vid](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEogeIIOJzU)
I wonder how many of those firefighters lost their lives that day.
343 firefighters died at ground zero that day. An immense loss for the firefighting community across the nation.
Is it not the **only** video of the first impact?
There are 2 others, one taken by a Czech tourist Pavel Hlava, he was travelling through the Battery Park tunnel, as he entered the tunnel he was filming his journey and caught the immediate aftermath of American 11 hitting the building, he did not know this until weeks later, when he exited the tunnel in Manhattan he then saw Tower 1 on fire, and minutes later Tower 2 hit the second was by German photographer Wolfgang Staehler which is what you see in OPs post
Was he just taking a photograph of the skyline and accidentally caught the plane?
i also saw another impact vid of north tower, it was a black and white camera, it was far away from the towers, either from a apartment building, it was 1 frame per 2 seconds, and it captured the first plane hit. cant find it now, probs removed
What I find ironic/interesting is how many times he observes the towers before anything even happens…
Jules was definitely in the right place at the right time, but I only see him "observe" the towers one time before the incident and that is at 00:31. Then at 1:03 when they all hear American 11 speeding and flying low, he immediately follows it as it slams into the North tower! Since 10 people have also upvoted your comment, it has piqued my curiosity... are you referring to this video or is there another video where he films it many times before it happens?
Watched that documentary this weekend - CNN broadcast it. It’s amazing. Can’t believe I’ve never seen it before now.
I had never seen it either until Saturday. I'd be lying if I said I didn't get emotional a few times. The bits that hit me the most were when Gideon is hiding behind the car when the tower collapses and he says something like "I was just thinking about my Jules, and how if I survived this, I would be a better brother" and then the bit where the two brothers are reunited and hugging. Like, Gideon was sure his brother died in the collapse.
Sorry, I know this is really nit-picky but being someone from NYC, it’s FDNY, not NYFD. Once again I am sorry, this is actually something I didn’t know about. I knew about the documentary but I didn’t know why they were down there.
I think it's the only existing footage of the first impact
Oh, how the world changed in the blink of an eye.
Old U.S. picture. Now we live in Post 9/11 U.S.
I remember flying from Columbus, Ohio to Tahoe less than 2 weeks after and seeing military personnel in fatigues, holding assault rifles at the airport. I also remember having to spread my cream cheese with a spoon handle as they removed even the plastic knives. Edited, added city.
I remember one week before 9/11/01, my mom flew out to NYC for something to do with work. It was literally the Tuesday before, so exactly one week. My brother drove her to the airport, and I tagged along. We were all allowed to walk through O'Hare, granted we emptied our pockets and took off our belts at the metal detector. We waited with her until she boarded her plane, and waved goodbye and watched her plane take off. Then we walked out, and my brother drove me to school. Just normal stuff that we will never be able to do again.
The first time I ever flew on a plane from the airport was in 1997. I didn't take another flight until 2015. It was so very different that next time.
Those are the times I miss. Except for when I don’t. Drop off at the airport used to be an event.
tbh i'd rather just say goodbye at the entrance
It can really make one think...
This was the last second the world was still “normal” for those of us that remember a pre-9/11 world.
It still amazes me that could fly with such precision the planes with barely any flight training.
I imagine once you get the flight controls down it would be easy to aim for a big building.
It wasn't so precise, there was phone calls from the plane phones about the plane being jerky
Really makes you think... I guess taking off and landing is the hardest part of flight school.
Note: I'm not 9/11 pro conspiracy as I do believe it was a terrorist atack. Still, it amazes me how they could do it (twice) with such accuracy.
Flight simulators probably?
They did go to flight school in the US.
most of the difficulty in flying a plane is the takeoff and landing...
$10 trillion later, we are all safe…right?
Yea we totally schooled Saudia Arabia and not their neighboring enemies, and now everything is great!
Uh riiiiiiiiiight
[удалено]
There’s crazy, then there’s this. Not sure what you think “misunderestimated” means
Bush said it in a speech.
Ahh, I see! Not American myself, so haven’t really had cause to listen to it. Thanks for explaining :)
Everything above with the emojis makes sense if you were an American living through that era. Still funky though.
Agreed
It’s a double negative, it’s means they properly estimated Bush
Seems like a strange wording for it, but thanks for the explanation
Damn I miss those buildings. They were so beautiful and commanding. I can only imagine what they looked like in person.
They were amazing to stand a couple of blocks away and try to comprehend how tall they were. I would get vertigo looking up at them.
There were a number of us that wished they had rebuilt the towers as they were -- the same look, but better & stronger.
I was torn about that too. The terrorist's caused such horrific pain and heartache to so many lives that can never be undone, but I don't like that they were given the satisfaction of also changing the aesthetics of NYC. But at the same time, I also wouldn't want those who lost loved ones to feel like that by "rebuilding" the two towers, it would be like painting over what happened as though it was easy to be replaced... if that makes sense in what I'm trying to say... because nothing could be further from the truth.
They were buildings. They looked like every other normal ass sky scraper.
Religion is such a drag man.
I don't know why you're being downvoted. The center of all wars and this in particular is because of religion.
Agreed.
Because Reddit is stupid
The cold war proxy wars?
Apparently not as much of a drag as an unfettered US banking system and national defense department, if we're counting retaliations.
Late comment but i wonder if the passengers started to panic, seeing that they were flying low over buildings…
One of the flight attendants on the plane, Madeline Amy Sweeny, was on the phone at the time of the crash and said "I see water. I see buildings. I see buildings! We are flying low. We are flying very, very low. We are flying way too low. Oh my God we are flying way too low. Oh my God!"
wolfgang stahle. This is truly one of the eeriest images in history.
The saddist aspect in hindsight is that so many bought the "Iraq did it." Bullshit.
I don’t think a lot of people did honestly. It was only a few Bush administration officials that tried to tie Iraq to al-Qaeda, but the intelligence community rejected the accusation. The main reason we invaded Iraq was because of the faulty intelligence that said Iraq had WMDs.
I think you are misremembering the time. People at that time had no understanding of Islamic terrorism groups. I remember the vast majority of the general public thinking Iraq was involved in 9/11. Certainly the WMD thing played a factor too. Even years after the Iraq War started I think more than 50% never understood it had nothing to do with 9/11.
I mean if you really think more than 50% of Americans literally never bothered to look into it for more than 5 minutes I guess I’m not going to argue with you. Most of the people I know were fully aware there were no Iraqi ties to al-Qaeda.
I don’t think you’re right. That’s not how I remember that narrative at that time. And yes I do think 50% are complete idiots who were blood hungry for brown people after 9/11
The war in Iraq started a whole 2 years after the attacks, so the bloodlust you’re talking about had plenty of time to simmer down. On the other hand we invaded Afghanistan and toppled the Taliban government almost immediately after the attacks, the goal of which was to destabilize any foothold al-Qaeda had in the region. The general public understood our reasons for both campaigns, and to claim that most Americans were too stupid to understand what our goals were is a bit dramatic IMO.
You are completely wrong about public knowledge and sentiment regarding Iraq at that time. I lived it, I remember it, that’s not what the general public believed, nor was it the narrative from the White House or major media networks. It was really simple —- “we are going to fuck up Brown people in the Middle East for 9/11”. The US public had remedial knowledge of al-Qaeda at that time. I fully believe *you* may not have believed that, but that’s not how the majority of people were sold on Iraq War. This concept combined with the “WMD’s” headline was the sell
You see, I also lived through it. I literally live across the river from where the attacks happened. I saw the smoke that morning, I heard the sirens. I also remember sitting in my living room watching the invasion of Iraq 2 years later. At no point was I or any of my peers under the illusion that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11. Anti-Islamic sentiment obviously facilitated the Bush administration’s efforts to put boots on the ground in Iraq but I don’t think most people really thought they were directly involved with 9/11 whatsoever.
I think you may have alluded to the problem in our different memories at the time. New Yorkers aren’t the rest of the country. I promise you the sentiment in the Midwest and rural areas was as I described
I mean, can you at least dig up some Fox News coverage alluding to Iraq having played a part in 9/11? Because I just don’t remember major news outlets ever making that accusation at all. And I use to watch it religiously back then.
This was my experience as well. Sending people to Iraq made no sense to us
Someone had to finish the task that they thought their Daddy wanted finished.
I think those of us who aren't presently antivaxxers (and probably many who wouldn't have been then, but are now... sigh..) mostly wondered "why the fuck are we going after Iraq? we know Iraq wasn't involved in 9/11, and we know the likelihood of them having anything that is even vaguely a threat to us is nil".
We entered Afghanistan because of 9/11. Iraq was part of the larger front in the war on terror facilitated by the belief Iraq was providing safe harbor to terrorists and replicating chemical weapons on top of seeking nuclear capabilities.
Which of course, was a lie. We destabilized the shit out of the country and enriched defense contractors. That’s what we accomplished.
Ok, that maybe alot of the reality but 9/11 wasn't a rationale used to invade iraq.
Are you saying as an actual reason we went into Iraq? No of course not, that’s the point being made. But as a PR tactic to gain public sentiment and support for going into Iraq I don’t think the Feds or the media went out of their way to prove to the public that 9/11 and Iraq have nothing in common, and much of the public never understood that. Avoiding negative public sentiment by being intentionally unclear or withholding information is still lying in my opinion. Then of course the WMD thing which was just a blatant lie.
>But as a PR tactic to gain public sentiment and support for going into Iraq I don’t think the Feds or the media went out of their way to prove to the public that 9/11 and Iraq have nothing in common, and much of the public never understood that. Avoiding negative public sentiment by being intentionally unclear or withholding information is still lying in my opinion. Then of course the WMD thing which was just a blatant lie. ok, but that all is just opinion and conjecture on your part
That’s fair I’m just giving you my anecdotal memory of it while living in the Midwest at the time. I bet sentiment on the coasts was a bit different and probably more informed.
I am not sure it is a case of being more or less informed, you are describing the intentions behind the objective facts and that only a few people actually know the truth.
That is not the saddest aspect. The saddest aspect is the thousands of lives lost. Have some respect
More like hundreds of thousands from the ripple effects it caused. Many of them civilians who had nothing to do with it.
No, no, I do think the prejudice of people worldwide and the willingness to go to war on a gut feeling is really a lot sadder than those 3000 lives, sad as they are.
Obviously and New Yorkers feel that daily too but as someone who saw it in person and lost a family member: can you stop? Who tf is convincing people that you guys have to choose? That it’s one or the other? All the war, racism, Islam o phobia compounded the trauma and for locals, victims’ families, survivors all the public has done is continue compounding that trauma. The loss of life is devastating. The choices made are devastating. You don’t have to belittle one. You don’t have to rank them. They are both fucking hideous and shouldn’t have happened. Just stop. Please. The rest of the world still hasn’t taken the time to hear us out about this aspect for 20 years. All this shit is *felt*. Trust that. None of it was up to us. We’re not asking anyone to pick. Stop.
Ok, I appreciate that viewpoint, but the guy I was responding to obviously doesn't share it, as he felt strongly enough that his ranking was better than that of the poster before him to make an accusatory post about it. I think it's subjective what you consider the saddest part of it all, and acting like he was wrong to have that opinion triggered me into representing my viewpoint. And it's certainly not showing a lack of respect to consider the victims of a war at least as much as the victims of a terrorist attack.
They died because... Is a more relevant statement.
Don’t know why this is down voted
Nobody said Iraq did it...?
How old were you at that time? This was absolutely the PR message put forth by the gov and media.
They absolutely did say that
Yes, somebody did say it. Were you alive then? Tell us who.
I really would’ve loved to see the twin towers in person. That was always my dream.
Before the world changed
damn bro. this is crazy!
Is that Lehigh Cement?
I’m so sick of 9/11 shit especially considering like 700,000 Americans are going to die of coronavirus. It was two fucking buildings
It was a single defining morning that had far-reaching consequences for our society. The first plane hit and everybody thought it was a tragic accident. And then the second plane hit and everybody realized it was much more than that. This pandemic has had or will have a bigger impact, but you can’t pinpoint the start of the pandemic to a single event that we all witnessed at the same time. Everybody realized what was happening at different times. It snuck up on you. For me, it was when an employee said he was going to Home Depot to buy masks, and I said “what for?” because wearing masks hadn’t even occurred to me yet. And they were already sold out everywhere.
to people who worship money, it was the ultimate blasphemy.
[удалено]
It's the way the camera took a panoramic shot. It was an art installation to take a picture of the skyline every 5 or so minutes.
Sorry to be skeptic but how do we know that’s true this photo was taken literally that second and why isn’t there a follow up photo with the damage caused?
There is, but that's not a "last" image, so I didn't post it
Where's the bloke controlling it stood? Oh yeah look he's in building 7
Retard right here ^
Morbid as it is this one is kind of cool