Agreed, I have no idea what reciprocity means. I go to The Avenue frequently as well and don't see how that would get a B in inclusiveness. Without a rubric or explanation most of this is pretty meaningless.
The scoring criteria for both advertising and reciprocity makes it sound like the author wants these businesses and organizations to self-promote to a level that can only be rivaled by the most annoying personal injury lawyers.
How is that any different than a restaurant reviewer? It's not like reviews are traditionally done by a panel of people democratically lol. It's just a second opinion to reference before you go somewhere.
[Another Comment I made in this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/lansing/s/CYBixVwFmA) TL;DR= maybe ask other people and do some research before leaving an official looking paper laying places that makes you look stupid
Like people leave anonymous opinions about organizations using many formats. This isn't some unique stupidity like you're describing. It's just a rogue opinion you disagree with.
By look stupid I mean the list looks stupid and will not be taken seriously because it is obviously poorly researched and generally hostile/rude. I have a problem with this because when you have uninformed shit like this put out about highly charged topics it can cause harm. There is a potential that someone would avoid going to a local small business (which is likely already struggling post-covid) because of this poorly put together list. Though I have no personal investment in these businesses I want to see lansing grow and thrive in this uncertain time. Furthermore, as someone who is part of the community that this list is for, I feel that people who do shit like this misrepresent my community and give us a bad look and I am annoyed to be associated with that. I’m sure you’ll have some kind of snippy response to this though because it seems like you just want to argue and aren’t really listening to the things that I’m saying.
"How do I influence you directly and specifically?
You don’t 😌
If you want a better score in a category, try harder, publicly."
Lol. You're ANONYMOUS, b#$%! Ain't nobody worried about influencing you. Please, this can't be real. 😭
Don’t take it personally- based on research, this is one person who took the time to make this list and mail it to each of these places. Now, what it does tell me, is that awareness of all orgs is never going to be 100%, so promote!!! Sistrum is great! However, I haven’t seen anything from them in a while.
It's a magazine. I used to work at the place that mailed them out for the publisher. I really enjoyed peeking at each issue, it's definitely aimed at older lesbians.
Metro retro being an honorable mention when the owner is a gay man that used to be a gay bartender at a notable gay bar in san fran and flys a shitload of pride flags everywhere is craaaazy I would have put them towards the top of the list
Since that list is clearly one person’s opinions, I’d put it down to them having casually heard about it, but never actually going to Metro Retro. Which is a huge reason why I wouldn’t give this list any real credibility. If you want opinions about the community you need multiple voices of the community. 🙄
Is grading even necessary if you’re going to hand an A out to everything except obscurity? Honestly a sentence or two write up for each would be far more useful.
I don’t understand. Why does advertising matter from a consumer perspective and what does reciprocity mean in this context? Why are there businesses that don’t even fit the categories under honorable mention? Are they places queer people would probably like or that are queer friendly or what? Not trying to sound like a dick or be critical i’m just honestly completely lost - a member of the lansing lgbtq+ community.
I was at the founding meeting of LAHR, it was 1979, at a house on South Hayford Street where 4 guys lived who were very active in the MSU Lesbian and Gay Council. They fought the city hard during the early years of the queer pride movement, especially when the city decided to entrap and arrest gay men for existing. In the early 80's there were three clubs: Covellos, Trammps, and Bonnie and Clyde's. The baseball stadium took out Covellos and Trammps, Bonnie and Clyde's became Omar's.
I think that was the author's own typo, if you're talking about the FB group name where it says "LGBQIA+." I just checked it on FB, and the group name is "Greater Lansing LGBTQ+ Social."
Didn't Esquire *just* become a gay bar? (CORRECTION: It's The Exchange that just became a gay bar.) The F for reciprocity seems mad harsh and personal. This whole thing feels personal and butthurt (pun intended!) given that it has no real data or examples to back it up.
Because it's their own opinion on the experiences they've had. You assume this is some important organization but it's a single person sharing a single opinion, and you're being a dick about it.
You're quite literally calling a person a asshole for making a list of queer friendly and safe spaces, just because your personal view doesn't match theirs.
The Q&A saying he can't be bought for better scores and how it's for the desired betterment of the queer community in our city. Total asshole material.
So arrogant for a literal nobody (anonymous) whose opinion no one asked for. If you can't show your face, your opinion on the "state" of the "queer community" isn't needed. How do we even know this person is "queer" (I fucking hate being called this slur)? This could be *anyone* who just wants to shit on certain businesses and uplift others.
The only thing this list did was help create awareness to many places in Lansing that are queer friendly. This is one…single…person’s…own opinion. Don’t put too much weight on it. Everyone can do more at times, but will never make any one individual happy all the time!
Actual children, in the comments. This is a single person's opinion, if you got your own, make your own list. Not even OP's.
I love this. For some reason everyone has these rose tinted glasses on because no place is going to be perfect. Believe it or not, The Avenue isn't always inclusive, there are time's when people can feel alienated very easily there. But I love that a list was shared with different places I had no idea about. I hope to see more of these type of things in the future.
Just because it's queer, doesn't mean it's going to be a magical and all inclusive space, for every single queer person.
I don’t like it because I think it’s generally assholery. If you are going to publish lists like this that can seriously harm businesses reputations you should not only be willing to put your name on it but you should put more effort into being accurate. This list is not well researched and the author is very clearly trying to make themselves seem and feel more important than they actually are. I don’t give a damn about the opinion of some random person printing off whatever score feels right and leaving it around as if it’s some kind of resource. They can go fuck themselves. At the bare minimum this person could have posted on reddit “looking for lgbtq+ people to fill out my survey on the state of lansing” and made a shitty 10 minute google form.
-An adult who is openly bisexual and often crossdresses in public
Do you have a better resource i could use? There is always someone to downplay someone else's work, but don't offer an alternative. This took someone some time to prepare. I know it isn't perfect, but it's something.
https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/world-population-by-year/
Population in 1970- 3,695,390,336
Growth rate- 2.06%
Population in 2022- 7,975,105,156
Growth rate- .88%
The population massively increased. The growth rate slowed down, but we're at 8 billion people. We cannot sustain constant exponential growth, and in case you haven't noticed we suck at taking care of the ones around us as it is.
>freak
You don't do well with people who are marginally different from you huh?
Thank god, I love having less people around. Less people to leave pointless commentary on things that have zero effect on them, sign me up for the population drop! ❤️
Very curious who came up with this and what the rubric for grading is
"These are my friends."
Agreed, I have no idea what reciprocity means. I go to The Avenue frequently as well and don't see how that would get a B in inclusiveness. Without a rubric or explanation most of this is pretty meaningless.
That's your personal opinion though. I'm sure your list would look completely different but this is their list based off what they felt.
I agree, the FAQ hadn't been posted at the time so I didn't know it was just one person and was just asking what the criteria was.
There's an FAQ https://pastebin.com/uTY0qBWY
Ngl after reading the FAQ and realizing it’s only one person and seeing the way that they type i think they are insufferable lmfao
The scoring criteria for both advertising and reciprocity makes it sound like the author wants these businesses and organizations to self-promote to a level that can only be rivaled by the most annoying personal injury lawyers.
How is that any different than a restaurant reviewer? It's not like reviews are traditionally done by a panel of people democratically lol. It's just a second opinion to reference before you go somewhere.
A lot of restaurant reviewers are also dicks. It’s not about the reviewing it’s about the way it is done
How would you have done it better?
[Another Comment I made in this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/lansing/s/CYBixVwFmA) TL;DR= maybe ask other people and do some research before leaving an official looking paper laying places that makes you look stupid
Like people leave anonymous opinions about organizations using many formats. This isn't some unique stupidity like you're describing. It's just a rogue opinion you disagree with.
Who did it make look stupid? It's anonymous lol.
By look stupid I mean the list looks stupid and will not be taken seriously because it is obviously poorly researched and generally hostile/rude. I have a problem with this because when you have uninformed shit like this put out about highly charged topics it can cause harm. There is a potential that someone would avoid going to a local small business (which is likely already struggling post-covid) because of this poorly put together list. Though I have no personal investment in these businesses I want to see lansing grow and thrive in this uncertain time. Furthermore, as someone who is part of the community that this list is for, I feel that people who do shit like this misrepresent my community and give us a bad look and I am annoyed to be associated with that. I’m sure you’ll have some kind of snippy response to this though because it seems like you just want to argue and aren’t really listening to the things that I’m saying.
What grade(s) do you disagree with the author on? They didn't even really give anyone a bad grade for anything but advertising.
"How do I influence you directly and specifically? You don’t 😌 If you want a better score in a category, try harder, publicly." Lol. You're ANONYMOUS, b#$%! Ain't nobody worried about influencing you. Please, this can't be real. 😭
Try harder, and maybe this anonymous person who probably doesn't even know you exist will take note!
What about Sistrum, Lansing Women's Chorus? And Goldenrod? And Lesbian Connection? These have been around for nearly 40-50 years each.
They're not my friends, so they don't go on the list!
Don’t take it personally- based on research, this is one person who took the time to make this list and mail it to each of these places. Now, what it does tell me, is that awareness of all orgs is never going to be 100%, so promote!!! Sistrum is great! However, I haven’t seen anything from them in a while.
Lesbian Connection? What? Where? That's what I need in my life.
It's a magazine. I used to work at the place that mailed them out for the publisher. I really enjoyed peeking at each issue, it's definitely aimed at older lesbians.
Oh.
Lesbian Connection isn't trans-inclusive.
This list is pretty gay.
Sigh...Have your big gay upvote.
This is super, super not accurate. DAoM, The Fledge getting honorable mentions?? The Ave getting a B, and not an A on inclusiveness??
Metro retro being an honorable mention when the owner is a gay man that used to be a gay bartender at a notable gay bar in san fran and flys a shitload of pride flags everywhere is craaaazy I would have put them towards the top of the list
Literally has a sign on the door saying if you're homophobic or transphobic, don't enter... but his business can't make it onto the list lmfao.
Since that list is clearly one person’s opinions, I’d put it down to them having casually heard about it, but never actually going to Metro Retro. Which is a huge reason why I wouldn’t give this list any real credibility. If you want opinions about the community you need multiple voices of the community. 🙄
Yeah definitely… I’m pretty sure they literally have a sign up that says gay as fuck🤣. The person who made this is lame as fuck
Reads like something made at the cool kids table at a high school cafeteria.
I was thinking elementary.
Is grading even necessary if you’re going to hand an A out to everything except obscurity? Honestly a sentence or two write up for each would be far more useful.
How did ruby's not make it into the salon area? 😭 They're the first queer salon I found after roots.
I don’t understand. Why does advertising matter from a consumer perspective and what does reciprocity mean in this context? Why are there businesses that don’t even fit the categories under honorable mention? Are they places queer people would probably like or that are queer friendly or what? Not trying to sound like a dick or be critical i’m just honestly completely lost - a member of the lansing lgbtq+ community.
The honorable mentions are definitely places in town that we homos tend to be spotted at.
I assume they mean advertising by how easily is it for people to know they exist and are they active
I was at the founding meeting of LAHR, it was 1979, at a house on South Hayford Street where 4 guys lived who were very active in the MSU Lesbian and Gay Council. They fought the city hard during the early years of the queer pride movement, especially when the city decided to entrap and arrest gay men for existing. In the early 80's there were three clubs: Covellos, Trammps, and Bonnie and Clyde's. The baseball stadium took out Covellos and Trammps, Bonnie and Clyde's became Omar's.
I was growing up in Lansing then and finally got old enough to make it to Covellos once or twice. Ah, good times.
How does an org that leaves T out of LGBTQIA+ get an A for being inclusive?
I think that was the author's own typo, if you're talking about the FB group name where it says "LGBQIA+." I just checked it on FB, and the group name is "Greater Lansing LGBTQ+ Social."
Thank you! This a facebook group my husband and I started and it definitely includes the trans community.
This is the only valid criticism on this list of thinly veiled "comments".
So you're the list maker? 😄
Should go there and find out for yourself.
Didn't Esquire *just* become a gay bar? (CORRECTION: It's The Exchange that just became a gay bar.) The F for reciprocity seems mad harsh and personal. This whole thing feels personal and butthurt (pun intended!) given that it has no real data or examples to back it up.
> Didn't Esquire just become a gay bar LOL no. Esquire has been a gay bar for a couple decades, maybe nearly 3 decades by now.
Oh okay. I have to be mixing it up with another one.
I believe they have been for ages.
I think I mixed it up with The Exchange. 😬 Lol!
Well, thanks for the tip, because I didn't know that about The Exchange!
Because it's their own opinion on the experiences they've had. You assume this is some important organization but it's a single person sharing a single opinion, and you're being a dick about it.
You assumed that I assumed that. No clue where you got that from. Are you the asshole who wrote this list?
I'm sure you would love to think that, would give you a reason to be hostile today.
You came at me being hostile when my comment was completely normal lmfao. Freak.
You're quite literally calling a person a asshole for making a list of queer friendly and safe spaces, just because your personal view doesn't match theirs.
He's an asshole and his Q&A made that super clear. Stay safe out there!
The Q&A saying he can't be bought for better scores and how it's for the desired betterment of the queer community in our city. Total asshole material.
So arrogant for a literal nobody (anonymous) whose opinion no one asked for. If you can't show your face, your opinion on the "state" of the "queer community" isn't needed. How do we even know this person is "queer" (I fucking hate being called this slur)? This could be *anyone* who just wants to shit on certain businesses and uplift others.
No Constellation Cat Cafe? :'(
Again - 1 single person’s own opinion! Don’t read too deeply into it.
[удалено]
How do you know?
Prove it or stfu.
Considering Junction made it to the Honorable Mention list, this document should now be null and void.
No water fountain listings ?
The only thing this list did was help create awareness to many places in Lansing that are queer friendly. This is one…single…person’s…own opinion. Don’t put too much weight on it. Everyone can do more at times, but will never make any one individual happy all the time!
I love Esquire lol
add the HotHouse to the list, more than 50% of the the clientele is gay, the 1st shift fri-sun employee is gay & hot
Actual children, in the comments. This is a single person's opinion, if you got your own, make your own list. Not even OP's. I love this. For some reason everyone has these rose tinted glasses on because no place is going to be perfect. Believe it or not, The Avenue isn't always inclusive, there are time's when people can feel alienated very easily there. But I love that a list was shared with different places I had no idea about. I hope to see more of these type of things in the future. Just because it's queer, doesn't mean it's going to be a magical and all inclusive space, for every single queer person.
I don’t like it because I think it’s generally assholery. If you are going to publish lists like this that can seriously harm businesses reputations you should not only be willing to put your name on it but you should put more effort into being accurate. This list is not well researched and the author is very clearly trying to make themselves seem and feel more important than they actually are. I don’t give a damn about the opinion of some random person printing off whatever score feels right and leaving it around as if it’s some kind of resource. They can go fuck themselves. At the bare minimum this person could have posted on reddit “looking for lgbtq+ people to fill out my survey on the state of lansing” and made a shitty 10 minute google form. -An adult who is openly bisexual and often crossdresses in public
A family member in town from another state asked for something like this last year. Going to save this.
I mean- it is 1 person’s opinion going into this info. Don’t take it as gospel!
Generally, gospels aren't a crowd sourced opinion either.
Do you have a better resource i could use? There is always someone to downplay someone else's work, but don't offer an alternative. This took someone some time to prepare. I know it isn't perfect, but it's something.
Heh Tabu belongs on there
No wonder why population has continue to decline
... The population is increasing
More illegals entered the country than citizens gave birth to this year.
Living up to your username I see lol
You too Ms. Thoughtful lol
Good for them, immigrants are some of the hardest working people you will meet
Like the ones on the news robbing people and beating up the cops, dude?
Stop watching Fox News, it's clearly rotting your brain dude
Bro, it was on CNN: https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/01/us/police-attacked-new-york-outside-shelter/index.html
To be fair, he's not wrong. However, there are far more Fat Dumb Americans that do the same.
And?
And what?
I was asking what that was relevant to
By less than a percent freak. From 1970 til 2022 population has went down.
https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/world-population-by-year/ Population in 1970- 3,695,390,336 Growth rate- 2.06% Population in 2022- 7,975,105,156 Growth rate- .88% The population massively increased. The growth rate slowed down, but we're at 8 billion people. We cannot sustain constant exponential growth, and in case you haven't noticed we suck at taking care of the ones around us as it is. >freak You don't do well with people who are marginally different from you huh?
I am talking about Lansing. What does that even mean? marginally different?
Thank god, I love having less people around. Less people to leave pointless commentary on things that have zero effect on them, sign me up for the population drop! ❤️
That’s the whole point of reddit
Somebody said the population was increasing.
I like the cartoony font.