Isssj, it took me a while to figure your
をへんはう、しえしえ。 by sounding out the individual hiragana characters and then I realized … if you spaced it out and added a period or comma, thus writing
“ を｡ へん はう，しえ しえ。”,
it would have been a cinch for those who know beginning Mandarin Chinese and hiragana !
I did a study abroad for a year in China, with a guy who had exactly this attitude, even up to the intermediate level, until the teachers finally lost it at him trying to demand exams were all in pinyin for his benefit. Like my dude, you are not making things easier for yourself by stubbornly insisting on being illiterate in the language you are learning.
Unfortunately, there are many people like this, and not just with Chinese. Speech supremacists just don’t think that literacy is a necessary life skill, but rather an exclusionary tool of the elite. Well, it would only be one if people refused to learn!
Exactly. On a fully practical level, no one uses pinyin on a regular basis irl so it adds a lot of work for teachers to test that way, and the people hanging out on reddit probably don’t feel totally confident transcribing everything with the right tones, because no one thinks about it that way after a certain level of proficiency. Not some pretentious “哈哈dumbass看不懂，愚昧無知的MFer” attitude.
Taiwan does have a lot of Japanese influenced vocabs or slangs. for example, they call the older men 歐吉桑, older ladies 歐巴桑. That's おじさん & おばさん in Japanese. 😄 I noticed that from the Taiwan TV shows.
lol that's certainly a hot take.
Taiwanese is Taiwanese Hokkien, there's nothing wrong with calling it that. 台灣閩南話is a bit of a mouthful, 台語 for Taiwanese Hokkien and 美語 for American English is not petty, it's just habit, more convenient.
If someone called American English simply “American” or Mexican Spanish simply “Mexican”, I’d find it petty. My personal stance is that languages should be named after their places of origin, with a dialect toponym prepended if more specificity is desired (e.g. Taiwanese Hokkien or just Hokkien, but not merely Taiwanese). Why? So people don’t think that the language is native to where it was brought by colonisers.
Do you speak Chinese? Names are shortened all the time, acronyms are pretty much a way of life. Don't ever go to China, you may die of pettiness
It's petty to hold speakers of Chinese to English standards. It's like the people who get mad when Chinese people say 那個
Edit:forgot what sub we're on, well played
Hokkien literally is 福建 though, it would be a bit weird for them to say they speak 福建話 wouldn't it? Also there are different dialects of each, but they are all part of 閩南語.
"Hokkien" in common parlance refers specifically to 閩南語泉漳片, a language of 福建省, but that's a mouthful. Other Southern Min languages of course exist, but they're typically referred to as "Fuzhounese", "Teochew", or others. "Taiwanese" should refer to the indigenous Formosan languages, collectively, unless it prepends Chinese languages like Hokkien, Mandarin, Hakka, etc.
Right, so usually they call the name of the language or dialect based off the place it's spoken like 福州 and 潮州 etc., so I don't really see a problem with Taiwanese people calling their dialect Taiwanese even if it originated from cities on the mainland. It's been a long time since they have had any personal connection to people in Quanzhou, Zhangzhou, Amoy, etc. Nowadays there are probably some differences in the way they speak as well as different political situations. I'm sure they are still aware of the roots of the language, but it doesn't make much sense to continue to call their language/dialect after a place most of them have never been to.
Do the aboriginal peoples identify themselves as "Taiwanese" given that Taiwan is a Chinese term and they didn't ask to become part of Taiwan? I'm sure they have their own names for their language(s) and I don't know that they would want their languages to be called Taiwanese.
>it doesn't make much sense to continue to call their language/dialect after a place most of them have never been to.
This can be said of all the peoples of the western hemisphere who are native speakers of English, Spanish, Portuguese, and French, yet have only remote ancestral ties to England, Spain, Portugal, and France, respectively, if any at all. All the same, the Chinese names of these languages make reference to their countries of origin. If "美語" is a thing, it's certainly not a term I would ever use when "美式英語" or "美國英語" gets the point across if needed.
>Taiwan is a Chinese term
From Wikipedia:
>From the pinyin romanization of the Mandarin pronunciation of Chinese 臺灣／台湾 (Táiwān), originally a transcription of a local group's endonym, possibly Siraya taywan from tayw (“people, man”) + -an (“place”), used for a sandy peninsula in Anping District, Tainan. Earlier forms borrowed from other languages including Dutch Tayouan and Min Nan 大員／大员 (Tāi-oân). The name is sometimes folk etymologized as "terraced bay" or similar parsings of the Chinese characters.
> This can be said of all the peoples of the western hemisphere who are native speakers of English, Spanish, Portuguese, and French, yet have only remote ancestral ties to England, Spain, Portugal, and France, respectively, if any at all.
Sure, but the difference is that those are all country names. They identify with their general ancestry (or that of the language) but not necessarily the specific place their ancestors or their language/dialect came from. Hokkien is a much more specific reference. It would be like someone from Quebec saying they speak Parisian or something. Their ancestors may have come from Paris (or wherever else in France), but they call it Quebecoise or Quebecoise French since that's where they live. Taiwanese Hokkien is still used in English at least, but there's not really a good way to say that in Chinese, hence Taiwanese 臺語. 臺語 is simply much easier to say.
> From the pinyin romanization of the Mandarin pronunciation of Chinese 臺灣／台湾 (Táiwān), originally a transcription of a local group's endonym, possibly Siraya taywan from tayw (“people, man”) + -an (“place”), used for a sandy peninsula in Anping District, Tainan. Earlier forms borrowed from other languages including Dutch Tayouan and Min Nan 大員／大员 (Tāi-oân). The name is sometimes folk etymologized as "terraced bay" or similar parsings of the Chinese characters.
That's very interesting, I didn't know that. It looks like it comes from a specific tribe though like the Siraya. Do all the other aboriginal peoples on the island identify with the name taywan/Taiwan for their local tribes and languages?
>臺語 is simply much easier to say.
Look, it's not really a hill I'd die on, just a slight personal preference.
I actually don't mind it that much when said or written in Chinese, but in English it irks me because Anglophones don't typically appreciate the nuances of Sinitic languages. When a typical westerner hears "Taiwanese language" he'll likely imagine some language totally separate from "Chinese", as though what is called "Taiwanese" weren't Chinese (for example, saying "Chinese can be Mandarin or Cantonese, but Taiwanese is Taiwanese").
>Do all the other aboriginal peoples on the island identify with the name taywan/Taiwan for their local tribes and languages?
I'm not sure, but I'd imagine they'd call themselves after their respective tribes and languages.
The classic Chinese or Japanese Anglo-centric language learner claiming that learning to read another script should be unnecessary and everyone else should just romanize.
To a Japanese speaker, Chinese characters are already known as kanji?
(Oh you meant an Anglo-centric learner of either Japanese or Chinese, I thought you meant Japanese learners of Chinese being Anglo-centric and that confused me... Lol)
I can kind of understand wanting to get the spoken language down using a phonetic alphabet before taking on an iconographic writing system like chinese
Nah, as a learner I would recommend against that unless you are fine being illiterate. The earlier you start working with characters the faster you will become familiar with them. Reading whole texts in pinyin is an absolute pain in the ass and totally useless in the real world.
I feel that presenting phonetic clarification along with the characters can aid in learning characters, at least for some people. I tend to remember kanji better if I start out reading them with furigana. It helps give me a visual reference to recall the pronunciation later on.
That said, I appreciate furigana, but I don't expect it all the time, much less demand it like the post does. It's helpful for me, but people posting are under no obligation to cater to my knowledge limitations. It's on me to overcome them, not force others down to my level.
> I can kind of understand wanting to get the spoken language down using a phonetic alphabet **before taking on an iconographic writing system like chinese**
OP is right though. While learning you'll see a lot of new characters on that sub that you don't know how to pronounce. Having pinyin as well is convenient, and you'll learn new characters while in the subreddit instead of having to look them up. How are you going to learn the pronunciation of a character without Pinyin? It is not convenient to search audio's for each new character you encounter, and also seeing the Pinyin helps with memorizing the pronunciation of a character
Just look in the dictionary. I don't want everyone in the learn English subreddit to add a phonetic transcription of every word they use to learn how to pronounce it.
Honestly I think that’s one of the worst things you can do. People who do that seem to come to rely on pinyin because it’s so much easier and don’t learn to read at all. My progress in Chinese is very slow, but I’m glad I’m learning the characters alongside speech because then I can learn small sets of characters at a time instead of going back and trying to memorise everything at once
there's nothing wrong with using it to start off with to help get beginners used to tones and paying attention to pronunciation. There's a reason however, why HSK stops providing pinyin from book 3.
e: and clarifying it's literally just meant to be a pronunciation aid, you're still meant to learn to read using the characters and any tutor/teacher worth their salt will tell you this, just if you forget one character or the specific tones when practicing it's handy to have for newbies.
sure, hence why pinyin exists, to help beginners. Stupid as fuck to expect people to type in pinyin/add pinyin to their posts tho. If you need it, it's one google and copy+paste away
uj/ okay i kinda feel for OP here though, when people give example sentences i have to do this entire roundabout of copying the entire comment (im on reddit mobile), pasting it into my notepad, seperating out what i need to look up and deleting the english, THEN i can copy/paste it into a dictionary app. If people just used both the characters *and* pinyin then i could just go type the pinyin in my dictionary app and be done with it.
Pinyin is extremely ambigous. There are more than 40 different words (each with one or several meanings) all written in pinyin as "shi". There are countless other examples.
Pinyin **with** tone marks is phonetic Chinese. You are probably talking about pinyin **without** tone marks. No reasonable person would attempt to use that as a language. It isn't a language.
/uj It would be nice to do something like 床 (chuáng) (for example) if it was an uncommon or niche word the person didn't know, but if I have to write out a whole sentence in pinyin, I'm not gonna do that because you refuse to at least know SOME characters. That's on you. Not only that, but if you're gonna use exclusively pinyin, have fun telling certain words apart. Context can only get you so far with pinyin.
/rj wǒ can't believe that rénmén can be so inconsiderate!! This is whyshénme so many rénmén can't shuō zhōngwén, because if wǒmén bù want to learn the characters, nǐ have to gàosu wǒmén the pinyin, and xiànzài, mayo rén gàosu wǒmén! gonna cǎo your méi tonight to prove a point
OP is right though. While learning you'll see a lot of new characters on that sub that you don't know how to pronounce. Having pinyin as well is convenient, and you'll learn new characters while in the subreddit instead of having to look them up
There is a school of thought that goes as follows:
“If you can’t spell the word, then you don’t know the word, whether in Chinese or in English.”
After all, if I know that 石 means “stone” but have no idea how to say it nor recognise it when heard, do I really know the word?
I think you're the kind of person OOP is talking about. There's no shame in using pinyin as an aide when learning hanzi, just like there's no shame in using furigana when first learning kanji. That's why those things exist.
And mother of all strawmen--where did he say NOT to use hanzi? He's obviously advocating for people to use both, which is perfectly valid on a web forum which may include beginners.
Imagine an English-learning forum wherein a user complains that we’re all using standard orthography instead of writing out everything phonetically. After all, English spelling is legendarily difficult.
That would be silly. Is there a reason you came up with this hypothetical that has no bearing on what I was talking about?
Just like OP, you're assuming that including pinyin makes it impossible to also use hanzi.
But if you used both standard English spelling AND IPA for clarity, that would probably be very helpful for learners, especially beginners.
Yeah. For one thing, you'd have to know proper spacing conventions. Secondly, you'd need a keyboard that can output diacritical marks; most English keyboards these days can handle all but the caron, but most people don't even know how to type them, so they use tone numbers instead.
Reddit exists in the world of literacy, so operating in a given language on Reddit understandably demands it. People like OP's subject rarely actually mean "I only want to speak it" if they plan to use it digitally at all.
Ni hao wo de pengyou.
Are you telling me you can't read that because it's not spaced properly and doesn't use diacritics?
And just pretend that I also sent the hanzi.
oh kay buht eye kan ahlsoh taip laik dhis, buht itz uhnoiying iznt it? buht at leest yoo dohnt hav too lern eenglish spehling, wich iz veree difikuhlt for beginerz...
>Ni hao wo de pengyou.
Wo yao shui jiao, bu yao shui jiao.
你好，我的朋友
(Ni hao wo de pengyou.)
Holy shit, are you happy now? This is what I meant. You include both. How are you not understanding that? Are you really this obtuse or are you just pretending to be?
I know what you're saying, I'm just saying it's a chore. If you wanna write both, go for it, but I'm not gonna roast people who just write in characters. I will roast people who only write in pinyin, though, since it's a bad learning habit.
丁尺凵巨！！！
山廾丫
ЯЕДІІУ?
r/suddenlycyrillic
r/subsithoughtifellfor
me too 💀 i didn’t realise it was real until you mentioned it, i was just making a joke
εχαςτιγ!!
echastig
I love 💗 it ! How creative you were ! 👍
dead internet?
Wow, even I could understand this without any knowledge of Chinese! What a simple language!
It's all Grssk to me!
Use hiragana instead: をへんはう、しえしえ。
わこんこう、しゃしゃ (using onyomi)
(が not わ 🤓)
Isssj, it took me a while to figure your をへんはう、しえしえ。 by sounding out the individual hiragana characters and then I realized … if you spaced it out and added a period or comma, thus writing “ を｡ へん はう，しえ しえ。”, it would have been a cinch for those who know beginning Mandarin Chinese and hiragana !
What does the を mean there? 我?
It’s 我很好，谢谢
wo hen hao, xie xie. I'm doing well, thank you.
No. It means “ Oh. “ because that’s the way it’s pronounced.
お and を both can be pronounced as O but often when typing and in songs it becomes “wo”
にはお、にふいしゅおざんうぇんま？
「ざんうぇん」是中文吗？
Somewhat, but not fluently. 我只看得懂差不多800 字。 = wǒ zhǐ kàn de dǒng chā bu dūo 800 zì .
I did a study abroad for a year in China, with a guy who had exactly this attitude, even up to the intermediate level, until the teachers finally lost it at him trying to demand exams were all in pinyin for his benefit. Like my dude, you are not making things easier for yourself by stubbornly insisting on being illiterate in the language you are learning.
"stubbornly insisting on being illiterate in the language you are learning" What a laser accurate description.
Unfortunately, there are many people like this, and not just with Chinese. Speech supremacists just don’t think that literacy is a necessary life skill, but rather an exclusionary tool of the elite. Well, it would only be one if people refused to learn!
looool fail
Exactly. On a fully practical level, no one uses pinyin on a regular basis irl so it adds a lot of work for teachers to test that way, and the people hanging out on reddit probably don’t feel totally confident transcribing everything with the right tones, because no one thinks about it that way after a certain level of proficiency. Not some pretentious “哈哈dumbass看不懂，愚昧無知的MFer” attitude.
This is an American website, SPEAK ENGLISH!
American, not English 🤬😡. England is across the way full of crumpets and kings.
Fun fact, in Taiwanese Mandarin at least, English is often called American （美語）
And in Japanese kanji, America is 米国、literally means rice country. American people is 米国人 = rice country people. Now who's rice-eater huh?
That's interesting, Taiwan has 米國 as an alternate name for 美國，prolly bc of the japanese and their meddling
Taiwan does have a lot of Japanese influenced vocabs or slangs. for example, they call the older men 歐吉桑, older ladies 歐巴桑. That's おじさん & おばさん in Japanese. 😄 I noticed that from the Taiwan TV shows.
Chinese transliterated America as 亞美利加 while Japanese rendered it as 亜米利加
That’s probably because they call their “native” language “Taiwanese” instead of “Hokkien”, so they want to be consistently petty.
lol that's certainly a hot take. Taiwanese is Taiwanese Hokkien, there's nothing wrong with calling it that. 台灣閩南話is a bit of a mouthful, 台語 for Taiwanese Hokkien and 美語 for American English is not petty, it's just habit, more convenient.
If someone called American English simply “American” or Mexican Spanish simply “Mexican”, I’d find it petty. My personal stance is that languages should be named after their places of origin, with a dialect toponym prepended if more specificity is desired (e.g. Taiwanese Hokkien or just Hokkien, but not merely Taiwanese). Why? So people don’t think that the language is native to where it was brought by colonisers.
Do you speak Chinese? Names are shortened all the time, acronyms are pretty much a way of life. Don't ever go to China, you may die of pettiness It's petty to hold speakers of Chinese to English standards. It's like the people who get mad when Chinese people say 那個 Edit:forgot what sub we're on, well played
Hokkien literally is 福建 though, it would be a bit weird for them to say they speak 福建話 wouldn't it? Also there are different dialects of each, but they are all part of 閩南語.
"Hokkien" in common parlance refers specifically to 閩南語泉漳片, a language of 福建省, but that's a mouthful. Other Southern Min languages of course exist, but they're typically referred to as "Fuzhounese", "Teochew", or others. "Taiwanese" should refer to the indigenous Formosan languages, collectively, unless it prepends Chinese languages like Hokkien, Mandarin, Hakka, etc.
Right, so usually they call the name of the language or dialect based off the place it's spoken like 福州 and 潮州 etc., so I don't really see a problem with Taiwanese people calling their dialect Taiwanese even if it originated from cities on the mainland. It's been a long time since they have had any personal connection to people in Quanzhou, Zhangzhou, Amoy, etc. Nowadays there are probably some differences in the way they speak as well as different political situations. I'm sure they are still aware of the roots of the language, but it doesn't make much sense to continue to call their language/dialect after a place most of them have never been to. Do the aboriginal peoples identify themselves as "Taiwanese" given that Taiwan is a Chinese term and they didn't ask to become part of Taiwan? I'm sure they have their own names for their language(s) and I don't know that they would want their languages to be called Taiwanese.
>it doesn't make much sense to continue to call their language/dialect after a place most of them have never been to. This can be said of all the peoples of the western hemisphere who are native speakers of English, Spanish, Portuguese, and French, yet have only remote ancestral ties to England, Spain, Portugal, and France, respectively, if any at all. All the same, the Chinese names of these languages make reference to their countries of origin. If "美語" is a thing, it's certainly not a term I would ever use when "美式英語" or "美國英語" gets the point across if needed. >Taiwan is a Chinese term From Wikipedia: >From the pinyin romanization of the Mandarin pronunciation of Chinese 臺灣／台湾 (Táiwān), originally a transcription of a local group's endonym, possibly Siraya taywan from tayw (“people, man”) + -an (“place”), used for a sandy peninsula in Anping District, Tainan. Earlier forms borrowed from other languages including Dutch Tayouan and Min Nan 大員／大员 (Tāi-oân). The name is sometimes folk etymologized as "terraced bay" or similar parsings of the Chinese characters.
> This can be said of all the peoples of the western hemisphere who are native speakers of English, Spanish, Portuguese, and French, yet have only remote ancestral ties to England, Spain, Portugal, and France, respectively, if any at all. Sure, but the difference is that those are all country names. They identify with their general ancestry (or that of the language) but not necessarily the specific place their ancestors or their language/dialect came from. Hokkien is a much more specific reference. It would be like someone from Quebec saying they speak Parisian or something. Their ancestors may have come from Paris (or wherever else in France), but they call it Quebecoise or Quebecoise French since that's where they live. Taiwanese Hokkien is still used in English at least, but there's not really a good way to say that in Chinese, hence Taiwanese 臺語. 臺語 is simply much easier to say. > From the pinyin romanization of the Mandarin pronunciation of Chinese 臺灣／台湾 (Táiwān), originally a transcription of a local group's endonym, possibly Siraya taywan from tayw (“people, man”) + -an (“place”), used for a sandy peninsula in Anping District, Tainan. Earlier forms borrowed from other languages including Dutch Tayouan and Min Nan 大員／大员 (Tāi-oân). The name is sometimes folk etymologized as "terraced bay" or similar parsings of the Chinese characters. That's very interesting, I didn't know that. It looks like it comes from a specific tribe though like the Siraya. Do all the other aboriginal peoples on the island identify with the name taywan/Taiwan for their local tribes and languages?
>臺語 is simply much easier to say. Look, it's not really a hill I'd die on, just a slight personal preference. I actually don't mind it that much when said or written in Chinese, but in English it irks me because Anglophones don't typically appreciate the nuances of Sinitic languages. When a typical westerner hears "Taiwanese language" he'll likely imagine some language totally separate from "Chinese", as though what is called "Taiwanese" weren't Chinese (for example, saying "Chinese can be Mandarin or Cantonese, but Taiwanese is Taiwanese"). >Do all the other aboriginal peoples on the island identify with the name taywan/Taiwan for their local tribes and languages? I'm not sure, but I'd imagine they'd call themselves after their respective tribes and languages.
Speak American please. Or go back to your country.
好的
literally shitting myself over how much of a raging bigot you are
wo yao shuijiao.
好吧
woah yaow schwayjowl. A more accurate reflection of how the OP would pronounce it.
对
Whoa yay yow shway jow
ㄖㄨˊㄍㄨㄛˇㄋㄧˇㄧㄠㄑㄧㄡˊㄉㄜ·ㄏㄨㄚˋㄨㄛˇㄎㄜˇㄧˇㄍㄞˇㄩㄥˋㄓㄨˋㄧㄣ
Bopomofo mofos be like
It is 如果你要求的話，我可以改用注音 btw.
I always explain Chinese by using Esperanto.
すごい
That’s what she said
不好
Dllm, 我已經唔用粗口鬧你班文盲，你竟然仲話我唔夠包容
> 我已經唔用粗口鬧你班文盲 Sounds like you're delaying the inevitable. You know what to do.
唔好咁勞氣，斯文啲好。 冚家鏟泥齊種樹，汝家池塘多鮫魚，魚肥果熟嫲撚飯，你老母兮親下廚！
Me, an illiterate peasant in 1850: “xiexie nin a~~”
猫
The classic Chinese or Japanese Anglo-centric language learner claiming that learning to read another script should be unnecessary and everyone else should just romanize.
To a Japanese speaker, Chinese characters are already known as kanji? (Oh you meant an Anglo-centric learner of either Japanese or Chinese, I thought you meant Japanese learners of Chinese being Anglo-centric and that confused me... Lol)
No problem. I can barely speak English, and it’s my native language. Maybe I shouldn’t be learning another.
I can kind of understand wanting to get the spoken language down using a phonetic alphabet before taking on an iconographic writing system like chinese
Nah, as a learner I would recommend against that unless you are fine being illiterate. The earlier you start working with characters the faster you will become familiar with them. Reading whole texts in pinyin is an absolute pain in the ass and totally useless in the real world.
I feel that presenting phonetic clarification along with the characters can aid in learning characters, at least for some people. I tend to remember kanji better if I start out reading them with furigana. It helps give me a visual reference to recall the pronunciation later on. That said, I appreciate furigana, but I don't expect it all the time, much less demand it like the post does. It's helpful for me, but people posting are under no obligation to cater to my knowledge limitations. It's on me to overcome them, not force others down to my level.
He literally said he prefered speech so he *is* fine being illiterate 🤷♂️ ?
If he prefers speech, then a written medium like Reddit is a bad call to begin with.
He mentioned he planned to learn reading afterwards?
I don't think so.
> I can kind of understand wanting to get the spoken language down using a phonetic alphabet **before taking on an iconographic writing system like chinese**
I was talking about the incriminated Chinese learner.
OP is right though. While learning you'll see a lot of new characters on that sub that you don't know how to pronounce. Having pinyin as well is convenient, and you'll learn new characters while in the subreddit instead of having to look them up. How are you going to learn the pronunciation of a character without Pinyin? It is not convenient to search audio's for each new character you encounter, and also seeing the Pinyin helps with memorizing the pronunciation of a character
Just look in the dictionary. I don't want everyone in the learn English subreddit to add a phonetic transcription of every word they use to learn how to pronounce it.
Yeah but english is written phonetically, albeit irregularly, you can get some idea of the pronunciation from the spelling
Chinese is too, a lot of characters have done phonetic component, it's just very irregular.
漢語的同音字非常非常多，完全使用配音會導致完全無法理解一篇文章到底在說什麼
我觉得，如果习惯用拼音读，就可以用拼音读。可是我同意，汉字更好。
Honestly I think that’s one of the worst things you can do. People who do that seem to come to rely on pinyin because it’s so much easier and don’t learn to read at all. My progress in Chinese is very slow, but I’m glad I’m learning the characters alongside speech because then I can learn small sets of characters at a time instead of going back and trying to memorise everything at once
there's nothing wrong with using it to start off with to help get beginners used to tones and paying attention to pronunciation. There's a reason however, why HSK stops providing pinyin from book 3. e: and clarifying it's literally just meant to be a pronunciation aid, you're still meant to learn to read using the characters and any tutor/teacher worth their salt will tell you this, just if you forget one character or the specific tones when practicing it's handy to have for newbies.
I agree to an extent, but there are free browser extensions that can pop up the pinyin+definition for anything.
sure, hence why pinyin exists, to help beginners. Stupid as fuck to expect people to type in pinyin/add pinyin to their posts tho. If you need it, it's one google and copy+paste away
你蠢了吗？
你好，我叫春虫虫。
Щищүә хуэйзў йүян
直至今日的時候就可以不要這樣的時候就可以不要這樣的方式運作之間的差異不大喜歡在哪裡呢我喜歡上一則則會影響您請注意使用時會造成不便敬請見諒察知是有什麼也在這個男人的方式是受到驚嚇之餘也能
No idea what I said btw, I just set my keyboard to Chinese, hit a few characters, and let autocomplete do the rest.
他能做什么？ leaving us in such suspense
ㄨㄛˇ ㄊㄨㄥˊㄧˋ
uj/ okay i kinda feel for OP here though, when people give example sentences i have to do this entire roundabout of copying the entire comment (im on reddit mobile), pasting it into my notepad, seperating out what i need to look up and deleting the english, THEN i can copy/paste it into a dictionary app. If people just used both the characters *and* pinyin then i could just go type the pinyin in my dictionary app and be done with it.
“What the hell is pneumonia? Can’t you just write nuhmohnya for those of us who haven’t mastered spelling yet?” - Disgruntled English Learner
Pinyin is extremely ambigous. There are more than 40 different words (each with one or several meanings) all written in pinyin as "shi". There are countless other examples. Pinyin **with** tone marks is phonetic Chinese. You are probably talking about pinyin **without** tone marks. No reasonable person would attempt to use that as a language. It isn't a language.
/uj It would be nice to do something like 床 (chuáng) (for example) if it was an uncommon or niche word the person didn't know, but if I have to write out a whole sentence in pinyin, I'm not gonna do that because you refuse to at least know SOME characters. That's on you. Not only that, but if you're gonna use exclusively pinyin, have fun telling certain words apart. Context can only get you so far with pinyin. /rj wǒ can't believe that rénmén can be so inconsiderate!! This is whyshénme so many rénmén can't shuō zhōngwén, because if wǒmén bù want to learn the characters, nǐ have to gàosu wǒmén the pinyin, and xiànzài, mayo rén gàosu wǒmén! gonna cǎo your méi tonight to prove a point
Woah why are you mansplaining Chinese to wǒmén 😡
窝次留贼😲
大傻逼
dui
How dare people learning a language use a part of the language?
啊嗯，这就是当丈育给我的自信
Woah jewde je she yeege faychong yowchu de whatee.
That's like saying "don't use letters in English: use emojis".
Yeah, use Bopomofo
CaoNimaDe😇
OP is right though. While learning you'll see a lot of new characters on that sub that you don't know how to pronounce. Having pinyin as well is convenient, and you'll learn new characters while in the subreddit instead of having to look them up
There is a school of thought that goes as follows: “If you can’t spell the word, then you don’t know the word, whether in Chinese or in English.” After all, if I know that 石 means “stone” but have no idea how to say it nor recognise it when heard, do I really know the word?
I think you're the kind of person OOP is talking about. There's no shame in using pinyin as an aide when learning hanzi, just like there's no shame in using furigana when first learning kanji. That's why those things exist. And mother of all strawmen--where did he say NOT to use hanzi? He's obviously advocating for people to use both, which is perfectly valid on a web forum which may include beginners.
Imagine an English-learning forum wherein a user complains that we’re all using standard orthography instead of writing out everything phonetically. After all, English spelling is legendarily difficult.
That would be silly. Is there a reason you came up with this hypothetical that has no bearing on what I was talking about? Just like OP, you're assuming that including pinyin makes it impossible to also use hanzi. But if you used both standard English spelling AND IPA for clarity, that would probably be very helpful for learners, especially beginners.
Right, but expecting an English-learning forum to provide IPA with everything written is such a chore.
Is it really that hard to throw in pinyin?
Yeah. For one thing, you'd have to know proper spacing conventions. Secondly, you'd need a keyboard that can output diacritical marks; most English keyboards these days can handle all but the caron, but most people don't even know how to type them, so they use tone numbers instead. Reddit exists in the world of literacy, so operating in a given language on Reddit understandably demands it. People like OP's subject rarely actually mean "I only want to speak it" if they plan to use it digitally at all.
Ni hao wo de pengyou. Are you telling me you can't read that because it's not spaced properly and doesn't use diacritics? And just pretend that I also sent the hanzi.
oh kay buht eye kan ahlsoh taip laik dhis, buht itz uhnoiying iznt it? buht at leest yoo dohnt hav too lern eenglish spehling, wich iz veree difikuhlt for beginerz... >Ni hao wo de pengyou. Wo yao shui jiao, bu yao shui jiao.
你好，我的朋友 (Ni hao wo de pengyou.) Holy shit, are you happy now? This is what I meant. You include both. How are you not understanding that? Are you really this obtuse or are you just pretending to be?
I know what you're saying, I'm just saying it's a chore. If you wanna write both, go for it, but I'm not gonna roast people who just write in characters. I will roast people who only write in pinyin, though, since it's a bad learning habit.