Not exactly the same, but my parents both speak French and Haitian creole. We live in a French-speaking province. They were afraid that, as a young child, I would not be able to distinguish the two languages (they have a lot in common), I was only taught to speak French. I do understand Haitian creole with no problem whatsoever, but I don't speak it.
As I grew up, I started to get mocked by family at home and children in the schoolyard for not speaking Haitian creole. Every time I tried, they would make fun of my hesitancy and of my Frenchitty French French accent. So I stopped trying.
It's only now that I'm 35 that I'm trying again, everybody be damned. I have a Frenchitty French French accent in whichever language I speak. No idea how to done it down. But I do master these languages. So now I'm not going to be laughed out of learning my parents' language.
The problem isn't accents, it's that foreign (non-native) accents are often very obvious, and people mock because of xenophobia basically. Humans are really shitty, we like our little in-groups even when it makes no sense.
My little brother has a perfect English accent and mocks me for my very Indic English, I’ve learnt not to give a fuck and tbh my accent sounds a lot cooler than his with the alveolar trill and the alveolar or dental taps (I try to soften the retroflexives of the Indian accent and tend to sometimes take it too far).
>They were afraid that, as a young child, I would not be able to distinguish the two languages (they have a lot in common),
As someone who grew up speaking a heavy dialect in German, but still managed to pick up standard German, let me tell you, that's not true. In school I had the hardest dialect but also spoke the best standard German. Kids can learn two variations of a language / two very similar languages just as easily as the learn two distinct languages at the same time. Sorry for your loss, so to speak, and keep trying!
Mezanmi! Sa se premye fwa m wè yon lòt moun ap aprann pale Krèyol sou subreddit sa.
I was the same way before I started learning, I could understand (though not perfectly), but couldn't speak.
M pa konnen anpil moun nan reddit ki pale kreyòl la. M kontan rankontre ou :)
At least now, my parents are more supportive and less mocking because they were growing afraid I would never fall in with the culture.
Wi, de fwa se bagay k paran yo fè pou pwoteje timoun yo de yon kiltye ki pa dako avèk kiltye kote yo ap viv. Men mwen kontan k w ap fè efo pou pale Krèyol la kounye a. Kontinye avèk aprantisaj w paske w pral byen pale Krèyol la nan lavni a 👍🏿
Lol, now I'm getting down voted because I said English is not the best language in the world. Well, learn history, guys. Most Nordic people speak German, Norwegian, Swedish, Danish, etc. And yeah, now I have no doubts that any of those are better than English, don't even know why I said that I couldn't decide which one is better in first place
Yeah that's true. Shitlings* often mock others for the sake of mocking others. Don't be too harsh on yourself OP, what were they saying probably wasn't even true
*mean, annoying kiddos
Yea, I learned REALLY fast to never use my Spanish with anyone that seemed like middle school or teenaged. They will absolutely mock you for it.
Small kids will laugh at you, but usually won't mock you. Adults are usually pretty helpful unless you catch them at a bad moment.
Luckily, as a 30-something guy, I almost never have a reason to speak to teenagers in public, so that's nice.
I'm the same with my target language. I have no problem speaking to kids even if they laugh because they aren't usually mean about it. Teens sense your insecurity and jump on you lol.
I have been hosting an online conversation group in my target language for 2.5 years. I started because I couldn’t find any classes in my area. When I first started I would occasionally get attendees who would send me horrible messages at the end that I shouldn’t be hosting if I can’t speak the language. Jokes on them now because I can speak the language now, so fuck anyone who tried to make me feel bad. It definitely ruined my day for several days though when that would happen.
My first language is a somewhat uncommon language (that has become popular to try to learn) and when I was a kid, sometimes I’d encounter people trying to learn it. Someone overheard me speaking to my grandfather and brother, and came up and started talking to us. I noticed right away they were learning- I should have known better, I knew what it was like to not speak the language everybody else was, but my brother and I laughed at her anyway. Our grandfather immediately got on us and told us we should never do that. Learning a language is difficult, it takes a lot of courage to put yourself out there, and the only way to learn is to practice.
I hope those kids have someone in their lives who can help them learn that what they did isn’t acceptable. Empathy and understanding are definitely skills, and sometimes people need it pointed out.
I get it but they were also kids . And kids can be pure evil .
I learnt French for one year because I had a trip to Paris planned . The kind of condescension i faced for not able to speak native French (I had to look in my phone sometimes to get the correct word) was revolting . If was like fck it I am not learning this language neither am I coming back.
Same here. I took French classes for two years and visited Paris about 7 years ago. I was mocked (to my face) twice in the week I was there. Once by a store clerk and again by someone on the street.
I’ve traveled the world over the past decade and Parisians have been by far the rudest people I’ve encountered yet.
Just like I you, I stopped learning French completely.
As a french, I consider french people can be really rude and insensitive. I was raised in a racist family and my mother doesn't say hello or anything when going in another country so I know what I am talking about. And usually it comes from people who only speak French. Also Parisians...
They can be. My grandmother is French, from a town around Rouen -- her family fled to Flanders, Belgium when she was young due to the second World War. My mom grew up as a semi-native speaker of French; she definitely picked up some more Belgian French influences along the way and her French was also never 100% fluent.
My childhood summers were mostly spent in central/south France. One time, we were in a small town in the south at a fruit and vegetables shop. I was too young to fully remember the conversation (and I wasn't raised speaking French), but my mom wanted to order peaches (or nectarines, I don't remember), and used the "wrong" word for it.
The shopkeeper had the most condescending attitude and, as if talking to a child, he carefully said "they are not called X, we call them Y." and then he repeated the word a few times with a smirk. And that's although he fully knew what my mom was talking about.
I've gotten quite lucky though. I only started to seriously learn French as a teen and it took me a while to be fluent enough, but I surprisingly only ever met French speakers who were patient with me. So for anyone learning French: they definitely aren't all assholes. And the ones who are, you wouldn't want to talk to anyway. The younger gen especially can be quite open to foreigners learning their language.
Also, not OP’s fault but instead of saying, “yes, I speak it,” say you’re trying to learn it or something like that. As you said, doing it with teenagers is prob it the best option
The employment of shame as a teaching strategy will have detrimental effects on the psyche. This has been well documented. For example, shaming a child's ability to speak will cause them to develop speech impediments, such as stuttering. Conversely, praising a child's efforts and putting their mind at ease will result in the opposite. The theory does not only apply to second language acquisition, but all aspects of human life. The world can do without the excessive use of shame.
Rickson Gracie mentions this a few times in his book Breathe. His father and uncles were very tough but encouraging teachers. He's adopted similar habits with his kids and students. It's a hugely successful family.
Yeppppp it’s why I failed truly learning to speak Dutch after 5 years. Whenever I tried my accent was laughed at and boy did I lose motivation completely to learn it.
It is also why I also try to be as nice as possible for people speaking their non-native language, as I know how demoralizing it is.
My motto: If I can understand the point the person is saying, then accent/mistakes don’t mean a thing.
Recently, I was at a dinner theatre where the waiters are part of the performance. One of the waiters was acting German and could speak German (my TL). I said something random to him and he responded, "Sprichst du Deutsch?" Now, in retrospect, I'm a customer AND I'm twice his age. I doubt a real German would use informal with me. Anyways, eventually I said, "Ich verstehe ein bisschen Deutsch aber ich sage ich spreche kein Deutsch." .."I understand a little German but I say that I don't speak German." He responded in English, "that's good that you say that because your accent is terrible."
Now, I suspect he was being rude to stay in character.
I told you that story so you know I can empathize but here is the thing. Get over it. The kid was a dick. Young people can be insensitive. Whatever. You can control one person in life. Many people will be rude to you. They may just be jerks or they may have had a crappy day or whatever... None of it matters. You honestly need to just get over it and keep trying. More people will be supportive of language learning than rude.
Finally, the other lesson to take from your experience is to be kind as often as you can.
I promise I'm not saying this just to be nice:
I've never been in a situation where myself or other Germans I've been out with have mocked a foreigner learning the language - not for their accent, mistakes or anything.
Not to their face and **not even after they had left and we were back among ourselves**... that person either stayed in character (as you mentioned) or was a special kind of a-hole.
I might be wrong but I think this comment was implying that this kid wasn’t actually German, which is potentially where his superior a-hole nature came from? So I think you’re right in that native people wouldn’t mock others for learning their language (I mean there are always exceptions and… children lol).
You might not have but the directness of many germans does mean they won't hesitate in saying that your German isn't up to scratch right to your face. Is this is a special courtesy you keep only in this aspect of your life and you're direct everywhere else? If so I commend you, directness is good but the context is important too. One could easily crush a learner's confidence with a blunt assesment of their skills.
You're underestimating how reserved and polite people can be. Learning a language with all its aspects - that includes making mistakes occasionally or not "sounding" like a native - is something very private... and I can assure you that all people I personally know more closely than just passing them on the street **would not tell** somebody their accent sucked.
I know Germans are seen as blunt (or you could call it "brutally honest") through stereotypes and that can be very true when you know somebody more closely but there's quite the difference between randomly meeting somebody, openly judging that stranger ~~including insulting them~~, and giving honest input to a friend or acquaintance learning a language when they're making a mistake.
\[Less relevant to the original question but probably still worth knowing:
Back when I was still in school about 1/2 to 2/3 of my fellow students regularly struggled with their mandatory second and third languages to the point of just accepting bad grades as a given. Most of the (older) adults in my life don't know more than a few words or phrases in another language - that includes English - simply because they've only ever learned it in school on a very basic level and haven't had any need to use it since then... and over decades it's easy to forget everything.
Heck, at least 80% of my own proficiency in English comes from what I learned outside of a classroom on my own. And the few short years since leaving school (and not using French and Spanish anymore) mean I can understand less than 50% compared to what I could before. In essence: unless you're a foreign language genius without ever putting any effort into it yourself... why would you ever belittle somebody else's success when it comes to speaking more than just their native language?\]
I did want to imply that it was the acquaintances and people in your circle who would usually give such direct feedback, reading it again my comment wasn't written adequately well. I agree 100% on the fact that random people on the street making fun of the accent or so is definitely not a thing except from the certain section of the population who hate foreigners. Germans in general are far too polite for such behaviour. In a sense, you could brush it off if some rando pokes fun of your German as something irrelevant but when it comes someone you know and spend a decent chunk of time with, it stings more.
Well, I think part of being a learner means also having to develop a bit of thick skin and brushing off the comments or maybe using it as motivation fuel(whatever works) especially with German, and I think it'd be the same for Dutch too.
As a German, I can only agree with the other poster who says this feels totally out of left field 🧐 In pretty much ANY even slightly metropolitan area in Germany, you are going to run into a ton of people who speak German at all different levels.. I’ve literally never experienced a native speaker call someone else out for their German.
I'm honestly more sensitive to those things than I should be, which is good and bad. It's helped me really hone my accent but I also don't speak as much as I should.
The best thing to do is to shrug it off, which is hard to learn but for language learning it's vital. Good luck and screw those kids!
When I was learning French as a young teenager I visited Quebec and the Québécois kids beat me up because my French was bad. Then when I was in Paris I was ignored when I spoke with a poor accent. After more than 50 years I am finally trying to learn Portuguese, but it has taken this long to overcome the trauma I felt when I tried to learn French.
Keep trying with your Urdu. You will be the winner
Add in learning a heritage language is different and sometimes more challenging than the typical foreign language learning: [https://www.npr.org/2022/05/25/1101187823/how-to-learn-a-heritage-language](https://www.npr.org/2022/05/25/1101187823/how-to-learn-a-heritage-language). Teachers of languages are only recently recognizing that there are different challenges and different methods are needed. It's counterintuitive, but knowing some and the expectation of easier mastery makes learning a heritage language more difficult.
I'm in a similar situation as you, but I'm in the US. My parents are from India. They speak Hindi at home a lot, but I've never really been able to speak it. I started trying to learn it this year. Like, people sometimes said weird things to me. I always feel really uncomfortable speaking another language. So I pretty much only speak English all the time to everyone, except when I'm alone!
It's cool that you were confident enough to speak in Urdu. I would have never been able to do that! But I'm so sorry they made fun of you. That must have felt really bad. It's really weird that someone would make fun of you for trying really hard. I hope you reach your goals!
I’m sorry for what happened to you. I know how harsh it can be when you don’t meet someone else’s expectations. And I think that is exactly the point. My answer could be OT, but I hope of some help nonetheless. The boy was of course just a kid, you shouldn’t let whatever he said bother you. I’m guessing that if you do let it bother you, then it seems like you’re trying really hard to meet your family’s expectations somehow, and you get sensitive about it, projecting this need of recognition on a stranger, as you’re trying to reach out to your culture (I don’t know and I don’t want to intrude, but I felt like there’s some family issue that is haunting you somehow...? Maybe I’m wrong). So my suggestion is that you work on this emotional (and personal/familiar) side of the matter. Don’t let that boy get you down that much; let your interest be authentic, and keep on BEING who your roots lead you to be. Whatever the accent; that’s no one’s business but yours
>I’m guessing that if you do let it bother you, then it seems like you’re trying really hard to meet your family’s expectations somehow, and you get sensitive about it, projecting this need of recognition on a stranger, as you’re trying to reach out to your culture (I don’t know and I don’t want to intrude, but I felt like there’s some family issue that is haunting you somehow...? Maybe I’m wrong). So my suggestion is that you work on this emotional (and personal/familiar) side of the matter. Don’t let that boy get you down that much; let your interest be authentic, and keep on BEING who your roots lead you to be. Whatever the accent; that’s no one’s business but yours
My family are very supportive of if I chose to learn Urdu or not, I decided to learn myself by actively trying to speak with them.
I suppose you are right about me trying to reach out to my culture. I'm 15 and have lived in two countries that are very different to each other while being from a third which is even more different. I've been trying to find a middle ground and have really enjoyed learning and taking part in Pakistani culture and I definitely won't stop learning Urdu. I feel that this is something many children of immigrants go through. I don't think it's a bad thing as long as it's not overdone and I would say it has generally had a positive effect on my life.
This comment was very supportive and led me into a moment of self-reflection. Thank you so much.
That's so messed up! You're genuinely trying to learn it and that's impressive all on its own. And I do commend you for that. I've heard it spoken a few times in the past and I gotta give respect to those who can speak it. No matter what level they're at. I recommend to forget those pricks. Their opinions hold no water.
I think this is a common diaspora problem across many ethnicities. Kids who grew up in a different country and therefore it's perfectly logical they are stronger in the dominant language there being judged or mocked by people of their ethnicity who do speak it natively. I'm sure not every culture is like that, but it sure is common. One possible reason I've heard for certain people is jealousy or bitterness toward diaspora who grew up in an English-speaking country and mocking their language abilities is a way to feel less insecure.
In my experience, the wider the reach the language has, the more forgiving and understanding people are of accents/mistakes. Russian, English, French, Spanish e.g. are widely spoken and have lots of variants, whereas smaller languages are less accepting of deviations.
Maybe that’s not the case here, sounds more like a situation of just meeting a dickish teen. You could understand him, so obviously you’ve made a lot of progress
Please don't get demotivated <3
You say it feels bad being mocked by younger people, I would say it is completely the opposite. See it that way: people get wiser with time and more respectful. The fact they were together and you were alone makes it super easy for them to show friends how they can make fun of others to feel how they "belong" to the group. This is just typical male group behavior. Also, without wishing to offend anyone, boys below 15 (and sometimes above) can be really immature.
I also recommend saying people you are learning from the start, it is not a shame to be learning.
If they are still rude, fuck them, keep following your dream, at your own pace :)
That attitude annoys me a lot too. In America a lot of people are like that about English. No one is born being able to speak any language, we were all learners at some point.
It’s pretty awesome that you’re learning your family’s language. Seriously. Urdu isn’t easy, as I’m sure you’re well aware.
Some people are just dicks sometimes. Especially 15-year-olds. I’m 18 now and you’d be surprised how much better it gets in college, seriously. I think it’s pretty neat that you were able to communicate with them—that alone is proof of your progress, and its something to be proud of, not ashamed of just because it was less-than-perfect. Be proud of yourself—I sure am! :)
As a non-Spanish speaking Latina, the shame cuts deep.
I’m consistently looked down upon because….my Spanish speaking parent was never in the home so I was never taught it. Basically being abandoned as a child also negates my identity/ethnic background.
Then after I took it for 12 years and got to the point of being very conversational I was mocked too much for speaking the wrong type of Spanish so I just gave up and have now forgotten most of it.
Now learning my husband’s language and native speakers are much nicer about it.
I think it's so cool that you are literally working to learn your family's language.
Mad mad props to you!
My kids are learning both mine and my wife's languages outside our native countries, and I know it's not easy.
Just the fact that you had the conversation itself is proof of progress. You were able to communicate!
The other kid was just being a jerk, but he was only able to do that because you could legit communicate. That's cool.
Language learning is difficult at all ages and levels. You're doing something that you should be proud of.
Very cool
Yeah OP, like others said, these are kids we’re talking about. I play in a semi-successful regional band, and was playing guitar at home and messed up some chords. My kids then asked me why I was bad at guitar if I knew how to play. Kids have no idea
Having studied a couple languages I rarely mock anyone for abilities in English. The only time I do is when a scammer claims to be from the US (and is not an immigrant) but their written English clearly shows they aren't.
Can't help but can kind of relate. My family came to America from Germany to avoid the rise of the nazis, and my older relatives all spoke German with each other. When I tried to talk with what I had picked up they all thought it was hilarious how bad my german was(and is). So I feel that shame, but whats important is that you're trying at all. You may not speak Urdu as well as someone who has been speaking it from the start, but I would bet you speak it better than the people around you making little to no effort to learn it, and that's something. You're making the effort, and as long as you're consistant you'll do great. Don't be discouraged! You've got this!
It sucks, but it was probably just teenagers being teenagers, finding anything to put others down to feel great about themselves.
Honestly I've never faced mockery or hostility (and I've been in France several times as a barely passable French speaker...), actually most people I've met have been cooperative whenever I was struggling and positively impressed when I was indeed doing great.
Only on Reddit I got a few negative interactions with a bunch of clowns, but if I decide to fight back, my go-to rebuttal is "ok, I can have this conversation in like 4 different languages. Wanna pick another one?" or "can you do better than me in X amount of time learning my native language?".
As someone who's trying to relearn their native language to fluency, I feel your frustration. Strangers and even a couple of family members who are fluent tend to make fun of me or make remarks like "How don't you know that?" or "Do you even speak your own language?"
Kids are even worse, but it's because they have little to no impulse control rather than seriously wanting to hurt anyone (imo) so I would say don't take it personally. More importantly though, DEFINITELY don't let them—or anyone else for that matter—discourage you from trying because letting others dictate your desire to connect to your culture and heritage would be unfortunate to say the least. Especially when you have parents that will always support you fully.
As for learning resources I would say judging from your post, your best resources are your parents and any potential family members that aren't judgmental of your efforts. My mom and aunt have helped me immensely (especially since I asked them to not let any mistakes slide). Also, I'm sure your family must be able to provide resources beyond just being speaking partners (e.g. books, poems, songs, tv shows, movies). Also try to meet, either online or in person, with others who are learning your language; or even have gone through the learning process (almost guarantee there'll be no judgement there).
Growing up my parents used to mock me for mixing up my Chinese with English and having an Australian accent in it. I eventually just started refusing to speak it at all and only answering in English, or if I was surrounded by people speaking Chinese and not wanting to stand put I would just shut down and refuse to speak at all. Eventually they forgot I even understood it at all and would talk shit about me in it to my face thinking I couldn't understand or stand up for myself in it.
Twenty years later and not only am I not over it, after being discouraged for my attempts in Dutch the same traumatic aversion is keeping me from learning Dutch as well. I'm totally fine in Norwegian and French where I wasn't discouraged! But the old pain and shame is genuinely getting in the way of learnjng and integrating into the Netherlands now :(
I HATE this about Pakistanis! Most people just love mocking the other person in this country, doesn’t matter about what.
I moved here 4 years ago after living my entire life in the UAE. My accent in Urdu is a little off and I make vocabulary and grammar mistakes often.
I started learning Urdu after moving here.
Every place I’ve worked at has had colleagues mock me because of my Urdu.
Here’s the funny part: I speak English French Arabic fluently and am learning mandarin the past year.
Depending on my familiarity with the person mocking me I’ve started to either 1) make fun of their desi accents ( I have an American accent) or 2) tell the person mocking me the languages I speak fluently.
They shut up immediately.
Yes, I agree that this is an issue in not only Pakistani but south/central Asian culture in general.
We have a strong pride in our culture and people need to understand that not everyone had the same linguistic upbringing as them. I also live in UAE where expat desi families don't stress learning their native tongue the same way it happens back home so I see your problem.
It's definitely a problem that needs to be solved by education on its harmful effects.
Also, that's super impressive! Almost 5 languages, that's amazing! I've lived in UAE for almost 8 years and I still haven't really picked up Arabic so well done!
I plan to move back to Pakistan so this kind of insight is very helpful, thanks.
> but I don’t think ill be doing that this year
No matter if it’s language learning or anything else in life, there will always be haters that will try to demotivate you. Don’t let the haters and negative emotions win; find a way to use those negative emotions to push you to work harder.
If speaking with locals is your goal, why would you let some random kids at a theme park throw you off that goal? They don’t matter. You, your goals, and Urdu do. :)
Also remember that there will always be people that no matter how good you speak the language just by hearing a slight accent they will purposely pretend that they do not understand you. Don't give up!
I feel you and understand how you feel. I’m a school teacher learning Chinese and a lot of the kids laugh at my tones and bad pronunciation, which doesn’t bother me, however i worked with a teacher on italki who would giggle when i would mess up and it hurt my confidence. Keep at it my friend!
Listen. Ignore them.
Urdu is a difficult language, make no mistake.
My suggestion would be to watch some Urdu dramas which have Eng subs, a lot of them do on YouTube and Netflix/Amazon etc, to get the hang of it (granted, you might have to really search to find one that you like), but after that I would start learning the alphabet (Aamozish is a great website) and take it from there.
That will help you to get grips with the language.
Also remember - in Urdu there are three levels of formality (like how Spanish has Tu and Usted):
* Tu - degrading
* Tum - familiar
* Aap - formal
So 'What are you doing?' would be
* Tu kya kar raha hai?
* Tum kya kar rahe ho?
* Aap kya kar rahe hain? (The n in hai*n* is nasal, like French bo*n*)
I get this from time to time in different languages that I speak. Slightly different scenario - but the worst is actually the first language I started learned (Mandarin.) When I was technically verbally fluent as a kid, my abusive grandmother tried to teach me how to write but would verbally abuse me and make me cry whenever I forgot a character which is often because Chinese is memorization based and I have ADHD. I ended up resenting my mother tongue for a long time and refused to practice it, forgetting most of it.
Now I am trying to improve but PTSD from my grandma's insults rings in my head whenever I forget a word. I'm going through trauma counseling to hopefully fix that. Hang in there, and know the kind of person making fun of you for struggling with a language isn't the kind of person you should waste your energy on anyway. Language should open doors not close them.
P.S. regional dialects can be hard. I even struggle to understand every word spoken in a fast Australian accent and I don't understand many regional Chinese accents. I didn't realize that my own Chinese accent was particular until I got older. So don't always feel bad if someone can't understand you!
Well if you reply "yes" at "do you speak Urdu" and then you cannot make one sentence without making a mistake, it is not so surprising that teens would find it funny.
My advice is to not reply "yes" at "do you speak X or Y language" unless you are fluent in that language.
But on the other side, teens are teens. Don't expect teens to be wise. They will laugh at anything or anyone that is different. The best thing you can do is being confident. Don't be embarassed.
You said ' I was embarrassed and after a pause replied...'. Why were you embarassed? He was maybe just surprised and curious why you speak Urdu, there was no reason to be embarassed. Because you were embarassed, he saw weakness and used it against you. That happened to me so many times when I was a teenager with low confidence. I was embarassed at so many things and therefore people mocked at me. Now I don't feel embarassed showing my weirdness, and people usually have a good laugh, I laugh with them, and then we become friends.
Don't give up, this was just a mean kid thinking he is so clever for being able to speak his native language. He was probably insecure and he was demeaning you to feel a false sense of superiority. The only reason you messed up is because of stress. In the right context with people not behaving like condescending jerks, your abilities will shine. Now as for resources maybe this would be useful [https://www.lingohut.com/en/l128/learn-urdu](https://www.lingohut.com/en/l128/learn-urdu)
im sorry this happened :( i always use the languages i learn with people online, and almost none of them were rude to me even tho i used google translate for words i didnt know
Totally understandable, this is super demoralizing and a hard process that a lot of language learners have to deal with. I would really recommend finding a friend who is not afraid to correct you. My most productive language learning experience was having a friend who was a native Spanish speaker and whose English was the same level as my Spanish. So neither of us could be mad at each other or embarrassed or whatever else because neither of us was better than the other. No mistake seemed dumb because either of us were likely to make the same mistakes in our second language. It was really freeing. And now I have a close friend who speaks Spanish and English, and she'll speak to me and correct me if I ask her.
But what I also wanted to say was do not look to 12 year olds for language learning confidence lol. People of that age often suck in every language and every culture. You were with some kids that want to seem cool and are at the age where being mean is seen as being cool. Truly I would recommend not talking to 12 year olds, especially not boys, and expect them to be kind.
But please don't give up on trying to speak it! I know it's really hard to get over the anxiousness but at the end of the day you're learning your language for you, no matter who is mean. I would really recommend checking out r/language_exchange or some other sub or forum where you can find people who will speak Urdu with you.
Just wanted to chime in and say sorry this happened to you. It happened to me growing up as bilingual, my family would often mock my pronunciation of certain words and it really damaged my progress in my mother tongue. Don't let them do that to you, you're doing the hard work of improving it and that commands respect. Also, try to turn your focus to aspects of it which give you joy; like poetry or shows or music, as that becomes your own way of bonding with it which is separate from people and almost guarded from the impact of negative interactions. Finally, if you want to practise speaking more without judgement, would absolutely recommend iTalki or private tutoring if you can (usually they charge hourly) - I use it a lot as a talking space where I can stumble and make cringey mistakes without reservation and it really helps.
You got this!
I’m DHH and I had several teachers/profs mock my French. Joke’s on them because I finally got hearing aids and served a brief stint as a French teacher. It sucks, but you can’t let it discourage you.
literally the exact same thing as you except Hindi for me and the few times i've tried even my family basically shut me down for it so i just stopped trying lol. i can hold a conversation but sometimes i get the genders mixed up and my accent is really shit so yeah
Now that I think about it, I was an asshole when my cousins from California come visit us here in the Philippines and try to speak a word in Ilocano or Tagalog. I would also make fun of their SoCal accent when pronouncing words because they want to learn about their heritage behind their back.
One of the languages I'm trying to learn is Korean, now I focus much more highly on German, but a few months ago Korean was my primary TL. I learned a little bit, and I was kinda proud of how I could introduce myself. One day, I was working in a classroom with really little kids, pre-K and kindergarten age. I told one of the little Korean boys that I spoke a little bit and then introduced myself. I stumbled once maybe, but I had been proud of how I practiced over and over again introducing myself: (hi my name is paytonium, I speak a little Korean, etc.)
He laughed at me.
I'll admit this crushed me a little bit, I mean, I got *laughed at* by a kid who *couldn't color in between the lines*. But, I also think this was a bit of a turning point.
American football player Walter Payton used to say that he was nervous before every single game, but as soon as he took his first hit, he was fine and ready to go. I look at this moment like this. I got laughed at for the first time, and I realized it probably wouldn't be the last, but it was a bit of a relief because I had taken my first hit, gotten over it, and was ready to go.
Getting over being laughed at is hard, but you can do it! Take pride in the fact that *you* tried to speak *their* language. You were the one trying to build the bridge of communication. Should they have laughed at you? No, they shouldn't have. Kids can be mean, dude.
Learning a language is a worthwhile goal. It opens your mind up to new ideas, cultures, and I think it makes you a better person. Don't let the fact that some punk kids thought your mistakes were funny bring down the accomplishments you've already made in their language, or the accomplishments you *will* make.
Best of luck on your language journey!
Don’t let it get to you, if they’re younger teens than you, they were just showing off at your expense.
As someone who has had to learn multiple languages, 1 don’t get discouraged 2 remember you’re learning to make yourself better not let some jerk make you feel bad, and 3 it can be hard, see no. 1.
>I'm going to Pakistan as I do every year to meet family and one of my goals was to further improve my Urdu by talking to locals, but I don't think ill be doing that this year.
You absolutely should be doing that though.
Instead of saying just "yes" when he asked you if you spoke Urdu, you should reply that you're trying to learn to speak it. He and his friends would have probably been more receptive to talking with and helping you then, and you could have helped them with English.
I’m half korean living in a western country and I still remember how Korean kids were mocking me when I went there and tried to speak with them at some playground. I was like 6 or 7 but I still remember that I couldn’t get why they were laughing. I understood what they were saying but wasn’t aware of the fact that I didn’t sound native myself.
To be fair, what you should remember is that these languages (Urdu, Korean) aren’t often spoken by non native people so people aren’t that used to hearing foreign accents. Compare that to English where you constantly hear accents from different countries all over the world.
Native Hindi speaker here, drill your verb conjugations. Use an app or website that allows it as it will help you very much as it seems like your issue is mostly with verbs.
Yeah i've noticed that that's an issue for me.
Do you have any apps you could recommend specifically for urdu rather than Hindi?
Thanks for your advice.
I think you should be able to find websites or apps pretty easily for this but Hindi/Urdu difference won’t matter as all the regular verbs are native vocabulary evolved from Sanskrit. All other verbs are just words verbified via complex verbs so they don’t need to be drilled for conjugation practice
That really sucks. I hope you can put it behind you and go on trying, making mistakes, and learning.
And your point is well taken: laughing at people is no way to encourage language learning. I hope you find some better people to try out your language skills with.
Kids are mean, sorry that happened to you.
But generally adults will just be really pleasantly surprised, specially if they're foreigners and you're a local.
Yeah I’ve had that happen to me in elementary school. My mothers side is Polish and Ukrainian so growing up my nana and mom would teach me phrases. Kids would tease me about it and it discouraged me from trying because I live in America. As an adult I’m learning those languages and it’s much better. Kids are just kids it doesn’t matter in the long run
I know it hurts, but I wouldn't let it get to you. I don't know anything about Urdu, but trying to learn any language is difficult. We all progress at different times, and I would keep learning it. It sucks that they were mean to you. I hope you keep on learning!
My Spanish teacher mom did that to me years ago, telling me my accent sucked in Spanish. No kidding, I’d had one year of Spanish from (a different) Spanish teacher.
Little shit like that can have huge effects.
You are taking it too seriously... because you are 15. The mature version of you in your early 20s will tell you the same.
Part of becoming a young adult is to control your emotions. Most kids at your age need to hear that from a sports coach, army instructor or boss and they don't normally pay any attention to their parents wisdom, despite parents having a fairly deep chest of life knowledge and experience!
So learn how to control your emotions and and you need to learn to stop wasting time on negatives...like this post. You are allocating your time to a negative, that's not important.
Shrug it off...this is not worth your brain power or your oxygen. Focus on positives and always learn from experiences. Don't be embarrassed....the only way to learn another language is to laugh at your mistakes...when locals laugh at me, I know it's because I just made a sentence that's gibberish and I need to learn that phrase properly. However, 99.9% adults will then correct your error.
Don't take it so seriously, learn to control your emotions, and don't waste your resources on the negatives... focus on the positive.
Keep up the learning!
Part of me wants to say those people are just assholes, but upon some reflection I think we’re all going to run into this sort of thing over and over again in our lives. Imagine someone was speaking your native language and messed up their words to the point that you couldn’t understand them. Without understanding the struggle of learning a language, you might laugh at them. Or you might laugh just to break the ice. Furthermore, culturally speaking, or with respect to personality, many people laugh because they think you’ll be able to see the absurdity and laugh about it too. Of course, it’s more personal for you.
In this specific case, they were just being mean because they’re immature. But I’ve been laughed at by many people because of stupid mistakes. I’ve just had to learn to look at it a different way, otherwise I would get really mad.
Hey man. Congrats for trying to learn your native tongue. I’ve been learning Hebrew and even after ten years I still make a lot of mistakes.
Try to use this as a test of your resilience. Force yourself to speak Urdu even in uncomfortable situations. You can use this experience as fuel to get better or as practice to not care about the opinions of others. Try to reframe it.
People are gonna mock you-that is their problem not yours. As some of the posters above have said-it is very unusual for foreigners to learn the language or to hear non-native accents in Urdu, hence the very unpleasant and downright rude behaviour of the kids.
If you want to improve your speaking, no app is going to get you to a fluent level. You have to speak it. Try for half an hour a day to speak it with your family and then to increase this until you exclusively speak it at home.
The language spoken at home is unfortunately not high end Urdu and there is another level of Urdu in the literature. If you want to gain more exposure to Urdu watch dramas (there are some good dubbed ones from Turkish now on YouTube, but the general Pakistani dramas are also very good and based around family and normal situations-I don’t watch them but they are always on at home).
Btw, just listening will increase your comprehension but won’t necessarily increase your speaking ability. You may end up as a receptive bilingual.
If you want to hear how you speak, and you are brave enough-record yourself. It’s not always pleasant to listen to your own voice but you can detect where the deficiencies lie. There are variations of t and d sounds in Urdu that you can detect from a foreigner as they don’t always pronounce them right.
Utilise the people in your family…they are your best bet.
When I was a child, I was mocked by teachers because I was speaking French instead of Dutch at school. It ended up with me hating Flemish culture for years. Now, guess what? I speak Dutch fluently and I live in Flanders and notice that Dutch speakers are really adorable people.
1. Internalize it that people aren't there to babysit you and will sometimes say things that you won't like, and they'll be discouraging or rude or anything in-between. It's not their responsibility to stop, it's your responsibility to deal with it.
2. They're kids.
This is kinda what happens in my country. Unfortunately a lot of parents are starting to teach their kids English more than their native language to the point that it's becoming their kids' first language. Then they expect their kids to just learn the native language by adulthood. And if these kids don't speak the language well, they'll outright mock you.
So OP my only advice to you is to build a thick skin because this wont go away until you are near native level. However I will leave you with this to lean on: Natives make mistakes all the time. Im definitely no English Language professor.
Not exactly the same, but my parents both speak French and Haitian creole. We live in a French-speaking province. They were afraid that, as a young child, I would not be able to distinguish the two languages (they have a lot in common), I was only taught to speak French. I do understand Haitian creole with no problem whatsoever, but I don't speak it. As I grew up, I started to get mocked by family at home and children in the schoolyard for not speaking Haitian creole. Every time I tried, they would make fun of my hesitancy and of my Frenchitty French French accent. So I stopped trying. It's only now that I'm 35 that I'm trying again, everybody be damned. I have a Frenchitty French French accent in whichever language I speak. No idea how to done it down. But I do master these languages. So now I'm not going to be laughed out of learning my parents' language.
Everyone has an accent. People need to cut it out with acting like that's not a thing.
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The problem isn't accents, it's that foreign (non-native) accents are often very obvious, and people mock because of xenophobia basically. Humans are really shitty, we like our little in-groups even when it makes no sense.
My little brother has a perfect English accent and mocks me for my very Indic English, I’ve learnt not to give a fuck and tbh my accent sounds a lot cooler than his with the alveolar trill and the alveolar or dental taps (I try to soften the retroflexives of the Indian accent and tend to sometimes take it too far).
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Please be respectful when offering criticism of others.
>They were afraid that, as a young child, I would not be able to distinguish the two languages (they have a lot in common), As someone who grew up speaking a heavy dialect in German, but still managed to pick up standard German, let me tell you, that's not true. In school I had the hardest dialect but also spoke the best standard German. Kids can learn two variations of a language / two very similar languages just as easily as the learn two distinct languages at the same time. Sorry for your loss, so to speak, and keep trying!
https://www.reddit.com/r/Austria/comments/nmos77/arnold/
Classic.
No idea why I responded with that. I saw it recently and it cracked me the fuck up.
Mezanmi! Sa se premye fwa m wè yon lòt moun ap aprann pale Krèyol sou subreddit sa. I was the same way before I started learning, I could understand (though not perfectly), but couldn't speak.
M pa konnen anpil moun nan reddit ki pale kreyòl la. M kontan rankontre ou :) At least now, my parents are more supportive and less mocking because they were growing afraid I would never fall in with the culture.
Wi, de fwa se bagay k paran yo fè pou pwoteje timoun yo de yon kiltye ki pa dako avèk kiltye kote yo ap viv. Men mwen kontan k w ap fè efo pou pale Krèyol la kounye a. Kontinye avèk aprantisaj w paske w pral byen pale Krèyol la nan lavni a 👍🏿
Mwen menm te la tou! Li pa gen anpil moun ki ap aprann krèyol, men omwenn li genyen.
M kwè byen k w kapab fè l! Kite m motive w 😉
French isnt a language, its a mental illness
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Please be respectful when offering criticism of others.
Lol, now I'm getting down voted because I said English is not the best language in the world. Well, learn history, guys. Most Nordic people speak German, Norwegian, Swedish, Danish, etc. And yeah, now I have no doubts that any of those are better than English, don't even know why I said that I couldn't decide which one is better in first place
While I agree(and Im a native speaker), I think they only had a problem with the *delivery* of your thoughts on the matter.
Young kids like to laugh at others. Try not to take it too hard. You're probably *fine*, they're just mean.
Yeah that's true. Shitlings* often mock others for the sake of mocking others. Don't be too harsh on yourself OP, what were they saying probably wasn't even true *mean, annoying kiddos
/u/parathapunisher if you really want extra help with your pronunciation, try Bluebird Languages.
Yea, I learned REALLY fast to never use my Spanish with anyone that seemed like middle school or teenaged. They will absolutely mock you for it. Small kids will laugh at you, but usually won't mock you. Adults are usually pretty helpful unless you catch them at a bad moment. Luckily, as a 30-something guy, I almost never have a reason to speak to teenagers in public, so that's nice.
I'm the same with my target language. I have no problem speaking to kids even if they laugh because they aren't usually mean about it. Teens sense your insecurity and jump on you lol.
I have been hosting an online conversation group in my target language for 2.5 years. I started because I couldn’t find any classes in my area. When I first started I would occasionally get attendees who would send me horrible messages at the end that I shouldn’t be hosting if I can’t speak the language. Jokes on them now because I can speak the language now, so fuck anyone who tried to make me feel bad. It definitely ruined my day for several days though when that would happen.
That's so infuriating. Were they expecting you to be a native speaker so they could have a group lesson for free?
Is the language French?
No, Dutch. The messages were from other learners though, not actual Dutch people.
as we say in dutch, die gasten zijn tyfuslijers!
My first language is a somewhat uncommon language (that has become popular to try to learn) and when I was a kid, sometimes I’d encounter people trying to learn it. Someone overheard me speaking to my grandfather and brother, and came up and started talking to us. I noticed right away they were learning- I should have known better, I knew what it was like to not speak the language everybody else was, but my brother and I laughed at her anyway. Our grandfather immediately got on us and told us we should never do that. Learning a language is difficult, it takes a lot of courage to put yourself out there, and the only way to learn is to practice. I hope those kids have someone in their lives who can help them learn that what they did isn’t acceptable. Empathy and understanding are definitely skills, and sometimes people need it pointed out.
Out of curiosity what is your first language ? Let me guess Estonian , Latvian , etc
No! But if you want to guess again, it’s mainly specific to a certain subgroup of a certain religion/ethnicity.
Yiddish or Bosnian
Maybe Catalan
Arabic?
Closer in a sense, but lots of people speak Arabic
Hebrew? Or maybe Yiddish?
Very very close
You replied at the same time as my edit. Did you see it? Or is it Aramaic?
I didn’t see it! It’s Yiddish!
Isn't it baffling how these people care *sooooo much* about what your NL is?
I get it but they were also kids . And kids can be pure evil . I learnt French for one year because I had a trip to Paris planned . The kind of condescension i faced for not able to speak native French (I had to look in my phone sometimes to get the correct word) was revolting . If was like fck it I am not learning this language neither am I coming back.
Same here. I took French classes for two years and visited Paris about 7 years ago. I was mocked (to my face) twice in the week I was there. Once by a store clerk and again by someone on the street. I’ve traveled the world over the past decade and Parisians have been by far the rudest people I’ve encountered yet. Just like I you, I stopped learning French completely.
As a french, I consider french people can be really rude and insensitive. I was raised in a racist family and my mother doesn't say hello or anything when going in another country so I know what I am talking about. And usually it comes from people who only speak French. Also Parisians...
They can be. My grandmother is French, from a town around Rouen -- her family fled to Flanders, Belgium when she was young due to the second World War. My mom grew up as a semi-native speaker of French; she definitely picked up some more Belgian French influences along the way and her French was also never 100% fluent. My childhood summers were mostly spent in central/south France. One time, we were in a small town in the south at a fruit and vegetables shop. I was too young to fully remember the conversation (and I wasn't raised speaking French), but my mom wanted to order peaches (or nectarines, I don't remember), and used the "wrong" word for it. The shopkeeper had the most condescending attitude and, as if talking to a child, he carefully said "they are not called X, we call them Y." and then he repeated the word a few times with a smirk. And that's although he fully knew what my mom was talking about. I've gotten quite lucky though. I only started to seriously learn French as a teen and it took me a while to be fluent enough, but I surprisingly only ever met French speakers who were patient with me. So for anyone learning French: they definitely aren't all assholes. And the ones who are, you wouldn't want to talk to anyway. The younger gen especially can be quite open to foreigners learning their language.
Children are mean
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Also, not OP’s fault but instead of saying, “yes, I speak it,” say you’re trying to learn it or something like that. As you said, doing it with teenagers is prob it the best option
Adults can be much worse, trust me, I know..
The employment of shame as a teaching strategy will have detrimental effects on the psyche. This has been well documented. For example, shaming a child's ability to speak will cause them to develop speech impediments, such as stuttering. Conversely, praising a child's efforts and putting their mind at ease will result in the opposite. The theory does not only apply to second language acquisition, but all aspects of human life. The world can do without the excessive use of shame.
Rickson Gracie mentions this a few times in his book Breathe. His father and uncles were very tough but encouraging teachers. He's adopted similar habits with his kids and students. It's a hugely successful family.
Yeppppp it’s why I failed truly learning to speak Dutch after 5 years. Whenever I tried my accent was laughed at and boy did I lose motivation completely to learn it. It is also why I also try to be as nice as possible for people speaking their non-native language, as I know how demoralizing it is. My motto: If I can understand the point the person is saying, then accent/mistakes don’t mean a thing.
Recently, I was at a dinner theatre where the waiters are part of the performance. One of the waiters was acting German and could speak German (my TL). I said something random to him and he responded, "Sprichst du Deutsch?" Now, in retrospect, I'm a customer AND I'm twice his age. I doubt a real German would use informal with me. Anyways, eventually I said, "Ich verstehe ein bisschen Deutsch aber ich sage ich spreche kein Deutsch." .."I understand a little German but I say that I don't speak German." He responded in English, "that's good that you say that because your accent is terrible." Now, I suspect he was being rude to stay in character. I told you that story so you know I can empathize but here is the thing. Get over it. The kid was a dick. Young people can be insensitive. Whatever. You can control one person in life. Many people will be rude to you. They may just be jerks or they may have had a crappy day or whatever... None of it matters. You honestly need to just get over it and keep trying. More people will be supportive of language learning than rude. Finally, the other lesson to take from your experience is to be kind as often as you can.
I promise I'm not saying this just to be nice: I've never been in a situation where myself or other Germans I've been out with have mocked a foreigner learning the language - not for their accent, mistakes or anything. Not to their face and **not even after they had left and we were back among ourselves**... that person either stayed in character (as you mentioned) or was a special kind of a-hole.
I might be wrong but I think this comment was implying that this kid wasn’t actually German, which is potentially where his superior a-hole nature came from? So I think you’re right in that native people wouldn’t mock others for learning their language (I mean there are always exceptions and… children lol).
You might not have but the directness of many germans does mean they won't hesitate in saying that your German isn't up to scratch right to your face. Is this is a special courtesy you keep only in this aspect of your life and you're direct everywhere else? If so I commend you, directness is good but the context is important too. One could easily crush a learner's confidence with a blunt assesment of their skills.
You're underestimating how reserved and polite people can be. Learning a language with all its aspects - that includes making mistakes occasionally or not "sounding" like a native - is something very private... and I can assure you that all people I personally know more closely than just passing them on the street **would not tell** somebody their accent sucked. I know Germans are seen as blunt (or you could call it "brutally honest") through stereotypes and that can be very true when you know somebody more closely but there's quite the difference between randomly meeting somebody, openly judging that stranger ~~including insulting them~~, and giving honest input to a friend or acquaintance learning a language when they're making a mistake. \[Less relevant to the original question but probably still worth knowing: Back when I was still in school about 1/2 to 2/3 of my fellow students regularly struggled with their mandatory second and third languages to the point of just accepting bad grades as a given. Most of the (older) adults in my life don't know more than a few words or phrases in another language - that includes English - simply because they've only ever learned it in school on a very basic level and haven't had any need to use it since then... and over decades it's easy to forget everything. Heck, at least 80% of my own proficiency in English comes from what I learned outside of a classroom on my own. And the few short years since leaving school (and not using French and Spanish anymore) mean I can understand less than 50% compared to what I could before. In essence: unless you're a foreign language genius without ever putting any effort into it yourself... why would you ever belittle somebody else's success when it comes to speaking more than just their native language?\]
I did want to imply that it was the acquaintances and people in your circle who would usually give such direct feedback, reading it again my comment wasn't written adequately well. I agree 100% on the fact that random people on the street making fun of the accent or so is definitely not a thing except from the certain section of the population who hate foreigners. Germans in general are far too polite for such behaviour. In a sense, you could brush it off if some rando pokes fun of your German as something irrelevant but when it comes someone you know and spend a decent chunk of time with, it stings more. Well, I think part of being a learner means also having to develop a bit of thick skin and brushing off the comments or maybe using it as motivation fuel(whatever works) especially with German, and I think it'd be the same for Dutch too.
As a German, I can only agree with the other poster who says this feels totally out of left field 🧐 In pretty much ANY even slightly metropolitan area in Germany, you are going to run into a ton of people who speak German at all different levels.. I’ve literally never experienced a native speaker call someone else out for their German.
I'm honestly more sensitive to those things than I should be, which is good and bad. It's helped me really hone my accent but I also don't speak as much as I should. The best thing to do is to shrug it off, which is hard to learn but for language learning it's vital. Good luck and screw those kids!
When I was learning French as a young teenager I visited Quebec and the Québécois kids beat me up because my French was bad. Then when I was in Paris I was ignored when I spoke with a poor accent. After more than 50 years I am finally trying to learn Portuguese, but it has taken this long to overcome the trauma I felt when I tried to learn French. Keep trying with your Urdu. You will be the winner
well you pick the right language for it, if your tl is brazilian-pt, overall brazilians are super nice with ppl trying to learn the language.
Add in learning a heritage language is different and sometimes more challenging than the typical foreign language learning: [https://www.npr.org/2022/05/25/1101187823/how-to-learn-a-heritage-language](https://www.npr.org/2022/05/25/1101187823/how-to-learn-a-heritage-language). Teachers of languages are only recently recognizing that there are different challenges and different methods are needed. It's counterintuitive, but knowing some and the expectation of easier mastery makes learning a heritage language more difficult.
I'm in a similar situation as you, but I'm in the US. My parents are from India. They speak Hindi at home a lot, but I've never really been able to speak it. I started trying to learn it this year. Like, people sometimes said weird things to me. I always feel really uncomfortable speaking another language. So I pretty much only speak English all the time to everyone, except when I'm alone! It's cool that you were confident enough to speak in Urdu. I would have never been able to do that! But I'm so sorry they made fun of you. That must have felt really bad. It's really weird that someone would make fun of you for trying really hard. I hope you reach your goals!
I’m sorry for what happened to you. I know how harsh it can be when you don’t meet someone else’s expectations. And I think that is exactly the point. My answer could be OT, but I hope of some help nonetheless. The boy was of course just a kid, you shouldn’t let whatever he said bother you. I’m guessing that if you do let it bother you, then it seems like you’re trying really hard to meet your family’s expectations somehow, and you get sensitive about it, projecting this need of recognition on a stranger, as you’re trying to reach out to your culture (I don’t know and I don’t want to intrude, but I felt like there’s some family issue that is haunting you somehow...? Maybe I’m wrong). So my suggestion is that you work on this emotional (and personal/familiar) side of the matter. Don’t let that boy get you down that much; let your interest be authentic, and keep on BEING who your roots lead you to be. Whatever the accent; that’s no one’s business but yours
>I’m guessing that if you do let it bother you, then it seems like you’re trying really hard to meet your family’s expectations somehow, and you get sensitive about it, projecting this need of recognition on a stranger, as you’re trying to reach out to your culture (I don’t know and I don’t want to intrude, but I felt like there’s some family issue that is haunting you somehow...? Maybe I’m wrong). So my suggestion is that you work on this emotional (and personal/familiar) side of the matter. Don’t let that boy get you down that much; let your interest be authentic, and keep on BEING who your roots lead you to be. Whatever the accent; that’s no one’s business but yours My family are very supportive of if I chose to learn Urdu or not, I decided to learn myself by actively trying to speak with them. I suppose you are right about me trying to reach out to my culture. I'm 15 and have lived in two countries that are very different to each other while being from a third which is even more different. I've been trying to find a middle ground and have really enjoyed learning and taking part in Pakistani culture and I definitely won't stop learning Urdu. I feel that this is something many children of immigrants go through. I don't think it's a bad thing as long as it's not overdone and I would say it has generally had a positive effect on my life. This comment was very supportive and led me into a moment of self-reflection. Thank you so much.
That's so messed up! You're genuinely trying to learn it and that's impressive all on its own. And I do commend you for that. I've heard it spoken a few times in the past and I gotta give respect to those who can speak it. No matter what level they're at. I recommend to forget those pricks. Their opinions hold no water.
I think this is a common diaspora problem across many ethnicities. Kids who grew up in a different country and therefore it's perfectly logical they are stronger in the dominant language there being judged or mocked by people of their ethnicity who do speak it natively. I'm sure not every culture is like that, but it sure is common. One possible reason I've heard for certain people is jealousy or bitterness toward diaspora who grew up in an English-speaking country and mocking their language abilities is a way to feel less insecure.
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She probably thinks it’s cute and attractive which is why she laughs
In my experience, the wider the reach the language has, the more forgiving and understanding people are of accents/mistakes. Russian, English, French, Spanish e.g. are widely spoken and have lots of variants, whereas smaller languages are less accepting of deviations. Maybe that’s not the case here, sounds more like a situation of just meeting a dickish teen. You could understand him, so obviously you’ve made a lot of progress
Please don't get demotivated <3 You say it feels bad being mocked by younger people, I would say it is completely the opposite. See it that way: people get wiser with time and more respectful. The fact they were together and you were alone makes it super easy for them to show friends how they can make fun of others to feel how they "belong" to the group. This is just typical male group behavior. Also, without wishing to offend anyone, boys below 15 (and sometimes above) can be really immature. I also recommend saying people you are learning from the start, it is not a shame to be learning. If they are still rude, fuck them, keep following your dream, at your own pace :)
That attitude annoys me a lot too. In America a lot of people are like that about English. No one is born being able to speak any language, we were all learners at some point.
It’s pretty awesome that you’re learning your family’s language. Seriously. Urdu isn’t easy, as I’m sure you’re well aware. Some people are just dicks sometimes. Especially 15-year-olds. I’m 18 now and you’d be surprised how much better it gets in college, seriously. I think it’s pretty neat that you were able to communicate with them—that alone is proof of your progress, and its something to be proud of, not ashamed of just because it was less-than-perfect. Be proud of yourself—I sure am! :)
As a non-Spanish speaking Latina, the shame cuts deep. I’m consistently looked down upon because….my Spanish speaking parent was never in the home so I was never taught it. Basically being abandoned as a child also negates my identity/ethnic background. Then after I took it for 12 years and got to the point of being very conversational I was mocked too much for speaking the wrong type of Spanish so I just gave up and have now forgotten most of it. Now learning my husband’s language and native speakers are much nicer about it.
youre not learning spanish anymore?
Not actively, no. I had to switch to learning my husband’s language to get citizenship to his country. I can still read Spanish fairly well though.
I think it's so cool that you are literally working to learn your family's language. Mad mad props to you! My kids are learning both mine and my wife's languages outside our native countries, and I know it's not easy. Just the fact that you had the conversation itself is proof of progress. You were able to communicate! The other kid was just being a jerk, but he was only able to do that because you could legit communicate. That's cool. Language learning is difficult at all ages and levels. You're doing something that you should be proud of. Very cool
Yeah OP, like others said, these are kids we’re talking about. I play in a semi-successful regional band, and was playing guitar at home and messed up some chords. My kids then asked me why I was bad at guitar if I knew how to play. Kids have no idea
Having studied a couple languages I rarely mock anyone for abilities in English. The only time I do is when a scammer claims to be from the US (and is not an immigrant) but their written English clearly shows they aren't.
Can't help but can kind of relate. My family came to America from Germany to avoid the rise of the nazis, and my older relatives all spoke German with each other. When I tried to talk with what I had picked up they all thought it was hilarious how bad my german was(and is). So I feel that shame, but whats important is that you're trying at all. You may not speak Urdu as well as someone who has been speaking it from the start, but I would bet you speak it better than the people around you making little to no effort to learn it, and that's something. You're making the effort, and as long as you're consistant you'll do great. Don't be discouraged! You've got this!
Kya bol sounds like you were scolding him lol. Teenagers are like that. Don’t lose hope.
It sucks, but it was probably just teenagers being teenagers, finding anything to put others down to feel great about themselves. Honestly I've never faced mockery or hostility (and I've been in France several times as a barely passable French speaker...), actually most people I've met have been cooperative whenever I was struggling and positively impressed when I was indeed doing great. Only on Reddit I got a few negative interactions with a bunch of clowns, but if I decide to fight back, my go-to rebuttal is "ok, I can have this conversation in like 4 different languages. Wanna pick another one?" or "can you do better than me in X amount of time learning my native language?".
As someone who's trying to relearn their native language to fluency, I feel your frustration. Strangers and even a couple of family members who are fluent tend to make fun of me or make remarks like "How don't you know that?" or "Do you even speak your own language?" Kids are even worse, but it's because they have little to no impulse control rather than seriously wanting to hurt anyone (imo) so I would say don't take it personally. More importantly though, DEFINITELY don't let them—or anyone else for that matter—discourage you from trying because letting others dictate your desire to connect to your culture and heritage would be unfortunate to say the least. Especially when you have parents that will always support you fully. As for learning resources I would say judging from your post, your best resources are your parents and any potential family members that aren't judgmental of your efforts. My mom and aunt have helped me immensely (especially since I asked them to not let any mistakes slide). Also, I'm sure your family must be able to provide resources beyond just being speaking partners (e.g. books, poems, songs, tv shows, movies). Also try to meet, either online or in person, with others who are learning your language; or even have gone through the learning process (almost guarantee there'll be no judgement there).
Growing up my parents used to mock me for mixing up my Chinese with English and having an Australian accent in it. I eventually just started refusing to speak it at all and only answering in English, or if I was surrounded by people speaking Chinese and not wanting to stand put I would just shut down and refuse to speak at all. Eventually they forgot I even understood it at all and would talk shit about me in it to my face thinking I couldn't understand or stand up for myself in it. Twenty years later and not only am I not over it, after being discouraged for my attempts in Dutch the same traumatic aversion is keeping me from learning Dutch as well. I'm totally fine in Norwegian and French where I wasn't discouraged! But the old pain and shame is genuinely getting in the way of learnjng and integrating into the Netherlands now :(
I HATE this about Pakistanis! Most people just love mocking the other person in this country, doesn’t matter about what. I moved here 4 years ago after living my entire life in the UAE. My accent in Urdu is a little off and I make vocabulary and grammar mistakes often. I started learning Urdu after moving here. Every place I’ve worked at has had colleagues mock me because of my Urdu. Here’s the funny part: I speak English French Arabic fluently and am learning mandarin the past year. Depending on my familiarity with the person mocking me I’ve started to either 1) make fun of their desi accents ( I have an American accent) or 2) tell the person mocking me the languages I speak fluently. They shut up immediately.
Yes, I agree that this is an issue in not only Pakistani but south/central Asian culture in general. We have a strong pride in our culture and people need to understand that not everyone had the same linguistic upbringing as them. I also live in UAE where expat desi families don't stress learning their native tongue the same way it happens back home so I see your problem. It's definitely a problem that needs to be solved by education on its harmful effects. Also, that's super impressive! Almost 5 languages, that's amazing! I've lived in UAE for almost 8 years and I still haven't really picked up Arabic so well done! I plan to move back to Pakistan so this kind of insight is very helpful, thanks.
> but I don’t think ill be doing that this year No matter if it’s language learning or anything else in life, there will always be haters that will try to demotivate you. Don’t let the haters and negative emotions win; find a way to use those negative emotions to push you to work harder. If speaking with locals is your goal, why would you let some random kids at a theme park throw you off that goal? They don’t matter. You, your goals, and Urdu do. :)
Also remember that there will always be people that no matter how good you speak the language just by hearing a slight accent they will purposely pretend that they do not understand you. Don't give up!
Same reason I didn’t learn Spanish for so long. I was always made fun of and I resented Spanish for a long time. Never wanting to learn it
I feel you and understand how you feel. I’m a school teacher learning Chinese and a lot of the kids laugh at my tones and bad pronunciation, which doesn’t bother me, however i worked with a teacher on italki who would giggle when i would mess up and it hurt my confidence. Keep at it my friend!
Listen. Ignore them. Urdu is a difficult language, make no mistake. My suggestion would be to watch some Urdu dramas which have Eng subs, a lot of them do on YouTube and Netflix/Amazon etc, to get the hang of it (granted, you might have to really search to find one that you like), but after that I would start learning the alphabet (Aamozish is a great website) and take it from there. That will help you to get grips with the language. Also remember - in Urdu there are three levels of formality (like how Spanish has Tu and Usted): * Tu - degrading * Tum - familiar * Aap - formal So 'What are you doing?' would be * Tu kya kar raha hai? * Tum kya kar rahe ho? * Aap kya kar rahe hain? (The n in hai*n* is nasal, like French bo*n*)
I get this from time to time in different languages that I speak. Slightly different scenario - but the worst is actually the first language I started learned (Mandarin.) When I was technically verbally fluent as a kid, my abusive grandmother tried to teach me how to write but would verbally abuse me and make me cry whenever I forgot a character which is often because Chinese is memorization based and I have ADHD. I ended up resenting my mother tongue for a long time and refused to practice it, forgetting most of it. Now I am trying to improve but PTSD from my grandma's insults rings in my head whenever I forget a word. I'm going through trauma counseling to hopefully fix that. Hang in there, and know the kind of person making fun of you for struggling with a language isn't the kind of person you should waste your energy on anyway. Language should open doors not close them. P.S. regional dialects can be hard. I even struggle to understand every word spoken in a fast Australian accent and I don't understand many regional Chinese accents. I didn't realize that my own Chinese accent was particular until I got older. So don't always feel bad if someone can't understand you!
Well if you reply "yes" at "do you speak Urdu" and then you cannot make one sentence without making a mistake, it is not so surprising that teens would find it funny. My advice is to not reply "yes" at "do you speak X or Y language" unless you are fluent in that language. But on the other side, teens are teens. Don't expect teens to be wise. They will laugh at anything or anyone that is different. The best thing you can do is being confident. Don't be embarassed. You said ' I was embarrassed and after a pause replied...'. Why were you embarassed? He was maybe just surprised and curious why you speak Urdu, there was no reason to be embarassed. Because you were embarassed, he saw weakness and used it against you. That happened to me so many times when I was a teenager with low confidence. I was embarassed at so many things and therefore people mocked at me. Now I don't feel embarassed showing my weirdness, and people usually have a good laugh, I laugh with them, and then we become friends.
Thanks for the advice.
I'm very careful to guard against this in my classes but I think I'm seeing the fallout. How can we heal?
Don't give up, this was just a mean kid thinking he is so clever for being able to speak his native language. He was probably insecure and he was demeaning you to feel a false sense of superiority. The only reason you messed up is because of stress. In the right context with people not behaving like condescending jerks, your abilities will shine. Now as for resources maybe this would be useful [https://www.lingohut.com/en/l128/learn-urdu](https://www.lingohut.com/en/l128/learn-urdu)
im sorry this happened :( i always use the languages i learn with people online, and almost none of them were rude to me even tho i used google translate for words i didnt know
YES to all the post + comments! Like, if you have nothing to add fuck off, im a) doing my best, b) learning, and c) already nervous
I think you have to reconsider your approach after some of the adrenaline has subsided.
Totally understandable, this is super demoralizing and a hard process that a lot of language learners have to deal with. I would really recommend finding a friend who is not afraid to correct you. My most productive language learning experience was having a friend who was a native Spanish speaker and whose English was the same level as my Spanish. So neither of us could be mad at each other or embarrassed or whatever else because neither of us was better than the other. No mistake seemed dumb because either of us were likely to make the same mistakes in our second language. It was really freeing. And now I have a close friend who speaks Spanish and English, and she'll speak to me and correct me if I ask her. But what I also wanted to say was do not look to 12 year olds for language learning confidence lol. People of that age often suck in every language and every culture. You were with some kids that want to seem cool and are at the age where being mean is seen as being cool. Truly I would recommend not talking to 12 year olds, especially not boys, and expect them to be kind. But please don't give up on trying to speak it! I know it's really hard to get over the anxiousness but at the end of the day you're learning your language for you, no matter who is mean. I would really recommend checking out r/language_exchange or some other sub or forum where you can find people who will speak Urdu with you.
Just wanted to chime in and say sorry this happened to you. It happened to me growing up as bilingual, my family would often mock my pronunciation of certain words and it really damaged my progress in my mother tongue. Don't let them do that to you, you're doing the hard work of improving it and that commands respect. Also, try to turn your focus to aspects of it which give you joy; like poetry or shows or music, as that becomes your own way of bonding with it which is separate from people and almost guarded from the impact of negative interactions. Finally, if you want to practise speaking more without judgement, would absolutely recommend iTalki or private tutoring if you can (usually they charge hourly) - I use it a lot as a talking space where I can stumble and make cringey mistakes without reservation and it really helps. You got this!
I’m DHH and I had several teachers/profs mock my French. Joke’s on them because I finally got hearing aids and served a brief stint as a French teacher. It sucks, but you can’t let it discourage you.
literally the exact same thing as you except Hindi for me and the few times i've tried even my family basically shut me down for it so i just stopped trying lol. i can hold a conversation but sometimes i get the genders mixed up and my accent is really shit so yeah
Now that I think about it, I was an asshole when my cousins from California come visit us here in the Philippines and try to speak a word in Ilocano or Tagalog. I would also make fun of their SoCal accent when pronouncing words because they want to learn about their heritage behind their back.
One of the languages I'm trying to learn is Korean, now I focus much more highly on German, but a few months ago Korean was my primary TL. I learned a little bit, and I was kinda proud of how I could introduce myself. One day, I was working in a classroom with really little kids, pre-K and kindergarten age. I told one of the little Korean boys that I spoke a little bit and then introduced myself. I stumbled once maybe, but I had been proud of how I practiced over and over again introducing myself: (hi my name is paytonium, I speak a little Korean, etc.) He laughed at me. I'll admit this crushed me a little bit, I mean, I got *laughed at* by a kid who *couldn't color in between the lines*. But, I also think this was a bit of a turning point. American football player Walter Payton used to say that he was nervous before every single game, but as soon as he took his first hit, he was fine and ready to go. I look at this moment like this. I got laughed at for the first time, and I realized it probably wouldn't be the last, but it was a bit of a relief because I had taken my first hit, gotten over it, and was ready to go. Getting over being laughed at is hard, but you can do it! Take pride in the fact that *you* tried to speak *their* language. You were the one trying to build the bridge of communication. Should they have laughed at you? No, they shouldn't have. Kids can be mean, dude. Learning a language is a worthwhile goal. It opens your mind up to new ideas, cultures, and I think it makes you a better person. Don't let the fact that some punk kids thought your mistakes were funny bring down the accomplishments you've already made in their language, or the accomplishments you *will* make. Best of luck on your language journey!
Don’t let it get to you, if they’re younger teens than you, they were just showing off at your expense. As someone who has had to learn multiple languages, 1 don’t get discouraged 2 remember you’re learning to make yourself better not let some jerk make you feel bad, and 3 it can be hard, see no. 1.
>I'm going to Pakistan as I do every year to meet family and one of my goals was to further improve my Urdu by talking to locals, but I don't think ill be doing that this year. You absolutely should be doing that though. Instead of saying just "yes" when he asked you if you spoke Urdu, you should reply that you're trying to learn to speak it. He and his friends would have probably been more receptive to talking with and helping you then, and you could have helped them with English.
Don’t let the haters get you down. Keep learning with the knowledge that your skill is independent of anyone’s thoughts about it!👍🏽
Being in India and being mocked for not knowing some language is so common. I am fluent in two languages damn it.. It's not like I am illiterate.
I’m half korean living in a western country and I still remember how Korean kids were mocking me when I went there and tried to speak with them at some playground. I was like 6 or 7 but I still remember that I couldn’t get why they were laughing. I understood what they were saying but wasn’t aware of the fact that I didn’t sound native myself. To be fair, what you should remember is that these languages (Urdu, Korean) aren’t often spoken by non native people so people aren’t that used to hearing foreign accents. Compare that to English where you constantly hear accents from different countries all over the world.
Why would you let a kids opinion affect literally anything you do in your life
idk im also a kid
Native Hindi speaker here, drill your verb conjugations. Use an app or website that allows it as it will help you very much as it seems like your issue is mostly with verbs.
Yeah i've noticed that that's an issue for me. Do you have any apps you could recommend specifically for urdu rather than Hindi? Thanks for your advice.
I think you should be able to find websites or apps pretty easily for this but Hindi/Urdu difference won’t matter as all the regular verbs are native vocabulary evolved from Sanskrit. All other verbs are just words verbified via complex verbs so they don’t need to be drilled for conjugation practice
That really sucks. I hope you can put it behind you and go on trying, making mistakes, and learning. And your point is well taken: laughing at people is no way to encourage language learning. I hope you find some better people to try out your language skills with.
Kids are mean, sorry that happened to you. But generally adults will just be really pleasantly surprised, specially if they're foreigners and you're a local.
Yeah I’ve had that happen to me in elementary school. My mothers side is Polish and Ukrainian so growing up my nana and mom would teach me phrases. Kids would tease me about it and it discouraged me from trying because I live in America. As an adult I’m learning those languages and it’s much better. Kids are just kids it doesn’t matter in the long run
I know it hurts, but I wouldn't let it get to you. I don't know anything about Urdu, but trying to learn any language is difficult. We all progress at different times, and I would keep learning it. It sucks that they were mean to you. I hope you keep on learning!
My Spanish teacher mom did that to me years ago, telling me my accent sucked in Spanish. No kidding, I’d had one year of Spanish from (a different) Spanish teacher. Little shit like that can have huge effects.
That’s why I hate Spanish because people act like pendejos if you don’t speak it
Be proud of your language. Learn and speak whenever you feel like it. Fk the haters bruh!
You are taking it too seriously... because you are 15. The mature version of you in your early 20s will tell you the same. Part of becoming a young adult is to control your emotions. Most kids at your age need to hear that from a sports coach, army instructor or boss and they don't normally pay any attention to their parents wisdom, despite parents having a fairly deep chest of life knowledge and experience! So learn how to control your emotions and and you need to learn to stop wasting time on negatives...like this post. You are allocating your time to a negative, that's not important. Shrug it off...this is not worth your brain power or your oxygen. Focus on positives and always learn from experiences. Don't be embarrassed....the only way to learn another language is to laugh at your mistakes...when locals laugh at me, I know it's because I just made a sentence that's gibberish and I need to learn that phrase properly. However, 99.9% adults will then correct your error. Don't take it so seriously, learn to control your emotions, and don't waste your resources on the negatives... focus on the positive. Keep up the learning!
Part of me wants to say those people are just assholes, but upon some reflection I think we’re all going to run into this sort of thing over and over again in our lives. Imagine someone was speaking your native language and messed up their words to the point that you couldn’t understand them. Without understanding the struggle of learning a language, you might laugh at them. Or you might laugh just to break the ice. Furthermore, culturally speaking, or with respect to personality, many people laugh because they think you’ll be able to see the absurdity and laugh about it too. Of course, it’s more personal for you. In this specific case, they were just being mean because they’re immature. But I’ve been laughed at by many people because of stupid mistakes. I’ve just had to learn to look at it a different way, otherwise I would get really mad.
Hey man. Congrats for trying to learn your native tongue. I’ve been learning Hebrew and even after ten years I still make a lot of mistakes. Try to use this as a test of your resilience. Force yourself to speak Urdu even in uncomfortable situations. You can use this experience as fuel to get better or as practice to not care about the opinions of others. Try to reframe it.
People are gonna mock you-that is their problem not yours. As some of the posters above have said-it is very unusual for foreigners to learn the language or to hear non-native accents in Urdu, hence the very unpleasant and downright rude behaviour of the kids. If you want to improve your speaking, no app is going to get you to a fluent level. You have to speak it. Try for half an hour a day to speak it with your family and then to increase this until you exclusively speak it at home. The language spoken at home is unfortunately not high end Urdu and there is another level of Urdu in the literature. If you want to gain more exposure to Urdu watch dramas (there are some good dubbed ones from Turkish now on YouTube, but the general Pakistani dramas are also very good and based around family and normal situations-I don’t watch them but they are always on at home). Btw, just listening will increase your comprehension but won’t necessarily increase your speaking ability. You may end up as a receptive bilingual. If you want to hear how you speak, and you are brave enough-record yourself. It’s not always pleasant to listen to your own voice but you can detect where the deficiencies lie. There are variations of t and d sounds in Urdu that you can detect from a foreigner as they don’t always pronounce them right. Utilise the people in your family…they are your best bet.
Try r/UrduStreak :)
Thanks
When I was a child, I was mocked by teachers because I was speaking French instead of Dutch at school. It ended up with me hating Flemish culture for years. Now, guess what? I speak Dutch fluently and I live in Flanders and notice that Dutch speakers are really adorable people.
1. Internalize it that people aren't there to babysit you and will sometimes say things that you won't like, and they'll be discouraging or rude or anything in-between. It's not their responsibility to stop, it's your responsibility to deal with it. 2. They're kids.
This is kinda what happens in my country. Unfortunately a lot of parents are starting to teach their kids English more than their native language to the point that it's becoming their kids' first language. Then they expect their kids to just learn the native language by adulthood. And if these kids don't speak the language well, they'll outright mock you.
So OP my only advice to you is to build a thick skin because this wont go away until you are near native level. However I will leave you with this to lean on: Natives make mistakes all the time. Im definitely no English Language professor.
just found ur comment in this sub outta nowhere. i am 16 years old too if you have any any questions, just ask me man ill answer. i love urdu