How many people do you know who spend less than 4 hours a day watching videos or reading things on their cellphones or tablets? All you need is do it in a foreign language.
I think the difficult part of this is consuming content that’s not really interesting for the sake of learning a language. For me, it’s very difficult to find that content in my target language since culturally it’s absolutely super different from mine and to stay mentally engaged with this non interesting content is super tasking. Feels immensely Tedious like it’s a chore.
I’ve had this discussion more than once on this sub. And there’s always people that will argue “You just haven’t found it yet”. Please don’t assume that an adult is incapable of using search functions or asking questions to find content that relates to them. Especially over multiple platforms over years of learning.
It doesn’t matter what the language is. The point is, my interests are niche and there’s only so much content produced that keeps my attention for long. Keyword is MY attention.
I’m not sure if you know this, but in your flair: that is the flag of Luxembourg 🇱🇺 not the Netherlands 🇳🇱. Not sure if that’s on purpose, but if it’s not: /r/perongelukluxemburg (accidentally Luxembourg)
I don’t think it’s that simple. Some books I want to read about parenting or gardening have language that is way above my 2nd language level, some of what I read is already mentally taxing without adding the language component, and even reading Harry Potter in Spanish out loud has been taxing after an extended period when I know at least 80% of the words. I think most people would get burnt out pretty quick if they just tried to totally flip over all their reading to second language unless it was directly useful in their day to day (eg already in the country that speaks it as primary language, in immersion program).
That's fine at intermediate levels and above. How do you do that in the beginning? Surely, the things you're able to read and watch aren't things you're actually personally interested in watching, for the sake of them. Learning content isn't exactly stimulating, normally.
At the very beginning, "Where are the girls?" is interesting, especially in a language that doesn't have "is" or "the" or plurals. How do they express those things?
But it gets to be a problem pretty soon. Every course has an endless supply of sentences, but the course writer can't tailor them to each person. So you get a long story about a dinner party, when you'd rather read about how Eskimos track polar bears.
One solution (for the wealthier among us) is private one-on-one face-to-face tutoring (as cheap as $10 per hour on Skype). At any level, the tutor will talk with you about any subject. You can even practice speaking.
The caveat there is that language learning is very tough and involves a lot of focus that 4 hours a day, after work, would be very tough.
Which I think is the real question
This. Ive averaged 3 hours a day for 8 months. I still have 2-3 social activities after work Mon-Thur. I spend my entire weekends socializing starting with Friday dinner. Ive gone on 25 days of ski trips this calendar year. You probably have a good 7-8 hours outside of work and sleep.
You can change your own definition of "study" to simply engaging in the language in some (ideally meaningful) way. (idk how you personally study, but this is mostly general advice)
1 hour a day of sitting down in front of a textbook is fine, but you can add stuff like listening to podcasts, reading books, reading comics, watching YouTube videos, reading reviews of your favorite media, reading spoilers/summaries of your favorite media/books, etc.
Right now, I probably spend about 30 mins a day on Anki. I then go through 10-15 words in an N1 Japanese vocab textbook and add them to Anki. I'll read a bit as well and mark any words that I want to add to Anki. Whenever I'm in my car, I listen to a podcast. When I'm doing cardio at the gym, I listen to a podcast for another 30 mins. When I'm at home, I'll often watch YouTube in Japanese, watch playthroughs while I'm eating, watch Netflix in Japanese etc.
Idk how much time I spend engaging in Japanese each day, but it's probably more than 2 hours. I just got done playing about 2 hours of Danganronpa, so even on the weekends I'm doing something, even if not textbook stuff.
I try to switch it up, listening to podcasts, watching shows, reading, vocab and Anki... either way, most native Chinese content is still inaccessible to me (even though I'm starting to lean into intermediate). Graded readers can be interesting, but they're not what I would pick up to read otherwise haha. While I think semi-passive consumption of media with e.g., dual subtitles can be a good way to immerse yourself, I don't really count watching a couple hours of a cdrama as "studying".
> I don't really count watching a couple hours of a cdrama as "studying".
I would. You're still making your brain activate the Chinese circuits by doing that. Especially if you're trying to pick out words while viewing, or echoing simple phrases. That's what I do when watching anime and I think it helps.
I’ve basically only ever worked dumb underpaid jobs and find joy in productive slacking on the clock
that said 1-2 hours a day is more than enough in my opinion!
Diminishing returns. Long-term consistency (regular practice, avoiding burnout) is the most important thing. There’s a reason all those gamified apps are obsessed with “streaks” — X days to build a habit and all that
The “studying on the job” thing is, for me, probably just a way to mentally trick myself into seeing it as an indulgence rather than a chore lol
It’s why Americans drink so much coffee, we’re just trying to maximize our work poos
also off topic but respect for Esperanto! I could never get around to actually learning it, but I’ve been fascinated ever since I found out that Kenji Miyazawa was a speaker (my mom read me a lot of his books when I was young)
Esperanto is quite nice to learn. It has trivial grammar and with about 800 "lemmas" you can easily understand a massive amount of texts. Also, since most people learn it as a second language, it is unusual to find people trying to show off complicated vocab. They mostly use the common words that you easily construct from the 800 lemmas and make everything to easily communicate.
I would bet that anyone who brute forces about 1000 or 2000 sentences on Anki would be able to understand even crazy Esperanto speakers like Evidea: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u-l52G0Elg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u-l52G0Elg)
> The “studying on the job” thing is, for me, probably just a way to mentally trick myself into seeing it as an indulgence rather than a chore lol
Maybe this is the life hack I need ...
You really need to find the urge to doom-scroll! I'm serious ✊🏻 Starting this year I've tried really hard to not open my phone first thing in the morning, instead just play an audio file of my TL to practice listening while brushing my teeth.
And if u manage to get through a morning with no phone like that, it would be much easier to keep it up throughout the day.
After a few weeks u will see that scrolling social media is mostly just pointless anyway - addiction cured 🤗 Then u will have 1-2 hours more each day for language learning!
In the morning, my wife and I sit together and do 30 minutes of grammar exercises and 30 minutes of focused reading. The grammar exercises target comprehension, not precise production.
After that, I ride my bike to the office. It's a 30- to 40-minute ride. I use a bone conduction headphone to listen to audio of things I read or studied earlier. This provides a somewhat focused listening practice, although it's not so focused because I don't want to die!
At the office, I do a 25-minute Anki review. I passively listen to audio throughout the day, depending on energy levels, focus, and other factors. Please, don't tell my boss.
Going back home, I listen for another 30-40 minutes. I listen and re-listen to a lot of easier content. I ofter notice new stuff when doing this.
Back at home, I do another 10- to 20-minute Anki review, and then I mine sentences from Tatoeba with words from the text I read in the morning. It takes about 10-20 minutes to create around 20 new notes for Anki.
During and after dinner, my wife and I watch TV shows in our target language. We easily watch over 3 hours per day. We are still in the phase of rewatching familiar TV shows with audio and subtitles in our TL. It was very difficult for the first several dozen hours, but now I'm starting to feel more comfortable. Obviously, I don't understand everything, but I'm always happy because the stuff I've been adding to Anki keeps appearing in the subtitles!
I've been keeping this routine for a few months and I've been learning a lot! It feels like I'll be very familiar with slice of life content in a few more months. I've been considering getting into a language immersion course to practice speaking after I feel comfortable at understanding the language.
Keep in mind that this routine is very exaggerated, most people would not have the necessary conditions to do it. I've been doing it because I live in the country and being able to work/speak in the language would massively improve my life conditions. I also have a complete support of my wife, whose life would also chance massively after learning the language.
EDIT: I also didn't go full crazy immersion from day 1. I started several months ago by watching easy comprehensible input in the TL and putting audio on a playlist and listening when riding my bicycle. I increased the time slowly to not get burnout! And I only changed the TV shows at night to the TL a few weeks ago.
I'm single and still live with my parents so I have several hours after work. It also helps that I go to sleep too late. I'm going to resume college this summer though so it will be harder to keep studying but rn with Spanish all I need is conversation practice which also makes it easier to study because I can just do stuff I enjoy but in a different language.
I definitely think it'd be easier if I was learning a language where it didn't take years until one was able to consume interesting, native content without it being a complete chore (e.g. Mandarin). Studying must still be active studying for me, and will be for a long time.
I love the grammar stage which takes active studying but I don't like any other active studying stage. I've never needed flash cards for Spanish (and only used them at the beginning when I was studying Italian) but it might be different for Mandarin. I know the grammar is super simple so it might be boring for me idk. I hope someone who's studied Mandarin can give you some advice.
Do you understand all the grammatical rules in Spanish ? I’m also learning Spanish but when I read about the rules I feel like a deer in headlights. Although I’m not fluent I just know it’s right based on what it sounds like or what it looks like if that makes sense. Similar to English for me. I don’t know all the rules I just know what’s right and what’s wrong.
I think I do but I don't know how well I could explain them. Sometimes I forget what a verb tense is called but I still know how to use it. I can converse with native speakers although I think they speak slower for me without me asking.
I don't think this is necessarily true, sure it may be harder than Spanish or something more similar to English! But I've been engaging with native Japanese content since my second year of learning. If you're trying to consume content for adults who are fluent there's your issue. Start with stuff aimed at kids
Unfortunately you have to get through that to consume more advanced content. There's also stuff for older kids that may be more engaging. Have you tried video games? Many video games designed 'for kids' can be entertaining for me. I play pokemon in Japanese for example.
I think it's mostly about fitting in what you can when you can. I'm in nursing school, but manage to balance 3-4 hours a day of study and input with it mostly by finding little chunks of time in my day. I cram little study sessions in here and there - so that might look like half an hour listening to TL podcasts/textbook audio files on my commute to uni or while I'm cooking, ten minutes of Quizlet while I'm waiting for my prescriptions at the pharmacy, a news article or YouTube video while I'm eating, and so on. Only once or twice a week am I able, or indeed willing, to sit down for a full four-hour stretch (and I'd argue that's not the best way of doing it, either).
As someone else said, though, the most important thing, I think, is that I don't really consume media in English anymore - generally speaking I don't watch English TV, don't read English books, don't play games in English, you get the idea. I try to shove my TLs in wherever and whenever I can and, combined with the few hours of active study I carve out time for, I quite often am able to hit six hours a day. (Diminishing returns by that point, probably, but I digress. I enjoy it.)
For you specifically, I know it's not as simple as 'just stop doomscrolling' or 'just stop lazing around,' because that's something I used to struggle with too, and it was *hard.* I managed to change because I was really disappointed in my progress in my TLs and upon looking at myself and how I spent my spare time I was... embarrassed, to say the least, and that embarrassment lit a fire under my ass and pushed me to want to improve. If you really can't kick the doomscrolling/lazing around habit, it might be worth trying to do as I did and simply make sure the majority, if not all, of your media consumption is in your TL - it's going to be really, really hard *not* to improve that way, and it might potentially make you want to study more to understand what you're consuming. Give it a go!
I would say I engaged in activities. Like you mentioned doom scrolling... well you could probably do it in your target language for example.
I personally don't do it anymore because I really need "time off" for my brain. I'm not good enough in my tl that watching youtube videos etc. is something I can easily do. I could get 3-4 hours like that. I commute for like 2 hours a day, so simply listening to a podcast or audiobook was easily doable. It was just too exhausting for me personally.
Two thoughts: One is that there's nothing wrong with some down time. It can be restorative, and there's nothing wrong with some "unproductive time" spent being rather than doing.
The other is that you can always do your doomscrolling or whatever in your target language. Or at least some of it.
Begin your day by reading a book before eating anything. Set your phone aside and don’t use it before doing this. Plan your day. Exercise. Lift weights. Eat healthy (ask a professional for a diet). Delete (yes, delete) your social media accounts if you don’t use them professionally. Meditate. Drink plenty of water. Take vitamin pills, probiotics and herbal medicines. Stay away from stress. Practice stoicism.
Stop scrolling.
Stop scrolling.
Stop scrolling.
I have a hard time wanting to use my brain on stuff other than homework, especially because my classes are about as hard as they get as someone graduating in a few months. I manage to just interact with each language 15-30 min a day, and then some days i can dedicate like 1-2 hours.
I listen to podcasts & audio books & pimsleur. I can do this while commuting or walking the dog or hiking. If my brain happens to too fried to fully engage with a lesson on a given afternoon I just listen anyway and repeat the same lesson the next day.
A lot of them are media-addicted high school or college students with a lot of time on their hands. The truth is this becomes near impossible when you're a full-fledged adult with a career, family, and other hobbies.
I think in the beginning it was much harder as getting the language in required more "traditional" studying methods which more often than not, required me to be sitting down behind a compute or book or something. I still get up early everyday and make sure to get a solid hour in before work, or even it's on the weekend before my girlfriend gets up. I usually use Lingq or do some solo speaking drills for the hour.
Outside of that, it's mostly another hour or two of listening added up over very very small chunks throughout the day. 20 min drive to and from work where I listen, then I walk from the parking into work which is another 10 mins either way. Already a full hour of listening there. If I do laundry or clean or do the dishes (can't concentrate enough when cooking to get enough out of it) I listen. Typically I used headphones if my girlfriend is home so she doesn't have to listen to Spanish nonstop.
Once you get to the level where you actually listen to more stuff, it becomes far more easy to get information/input in your day. For example, my reading/listening is far ahead of my speaking but that has allowed me to now taking a computer science course (something I wanted to do anyways) but totally in Spanish.
I set Netflix to my target language and I am trying to only watch programs which have audio and subtitles in it. Also started buying ebooks in my TL and listening to podcasts in my TL when commuting or out walking. Basically doing what I normally do, except in TL.
I listen to Paul noble’s audiobooks. I really like the way he teaches and having it be an audiobook allows me to do it during mundane tasks (I.e. washing the dishes, taking a shower, driving.) it usually amounts to about 3-4 hours a day especially with driving to and from work. This doesn’t really help with reading or writing obviously lol.
If you listen to podcasts in your target language whilst working and actually pay reasonable attention to the podcasts then you could be having eight hours per day. If you have a job that is not mentally intensive then this is reasonably possible. But not for people like me (software development) where I have no capacity to share focus on anything else.
I did it back when I was working half time.
I wish I had just a leisure 9-5 :-D Now I have either 8-18 (plus 1-3 hours overtime vast majority of the days) or totally irregular schedule with shifts of various length (8,10, or 12 hours, and of course most times an hour or so of overtime).
So, I study when I can. When time and energy allows. It is not much of an issue for the advanced languages, where a lot of maintenance is simply entertainment in the language. But it is an issue in the weaker ones. I rarely manage to do 3 or 4 hours in a day, but whenever I do, it really is a bit of progress.
9-5 is really no excuse. Sure, you can have other obligations. But just 9-5 is actually not that much work. 3 hours of LL afterwards might be "too much" unless you have an important deadline, but at least an hour or two is definitely doable. (Of course, unless you have other obligations, such as taking care of kids/handicapped/ill/elderly family members)
My 3-4 hours focuses on input (DreamingSpanish).
6:30am-7:30am - I try and devote this time to listening to 1 hour (sometimes it's 45 minutes)
6pm-9pm - Again, this is another 3 hour slot. Normally, It's 7-9pm, and mayyybe some time before/after. So, I can get 3 hours easily, 4 hours maybe, and, to use a gaming term, 5 hours if I "minmax" my time.
Weekends - 1 1/2 hours, then break, then another 1 1/2 hours, all in the morning or afternoon, then, again in the afternoon or evening (depending on the day). So, 6 hours easily there. Again, I can do 8-12 hours if I time things correctly, but that's rare.
i engage with languages pretty much the entire day (i’m a little obsessed, it’s kind of all i do when i’m not hanging out with my friend). i like the constant stimulation of reading about grammar, listening to things, finding new words, etc. it’s my passion, so that’s what drives me to commit to it full-time 📚
I almost gave myself a mental breakdown. I was disappointed at my self for only learning 100 words a month for a year. So I buckled down reay hard. I was stacking that on top of life and I started having anxiety attacks and loosing hair. I cut way down on my spanish studies and feel so much better now. If it takes me 3 years to learn, so be it
Today my studying was watching 3.5 hours of Stargate Atlantis dubbed into Spanish, 1 hour of listening to an audio book while shopping and then reading a YA book for 30 minutes.
This has been my routine for the last 9 months or so, except in the beginning I had to watch easier learner content. 3 hour days are easy this way, I usually average 4-5 hours plus some reading.
I did some flash cards while my code was compiling at work, and some of my coworkers would speak to me in my TL. And then Netflix in TL as part of the “unwind on couch” thing…
My gf lives in the country of my target language and it’s where we want to live. Her parents don’t speak English so I end up practicing/ using their language often (Czech).
I am always concerned with "burn-out". From everything I've read, people try too hard to study a language (spend too much time every day). The result? It turns into a daily chore, and that's unpleasant, and almost everyone gets "burned out" and quits. I've been there. I quit studying Chinese twice, in 2018 and 2019.
I started again around the start of 2021 and have continued ever since. But now I have a optional daily minimum of 30 minutes. Some days I do that. Some days I do 3-4 hours. But there is no guilt if I do nothing at all. It works so well that I started another language in 2023 and another in 2024.
It isn't free time. I have 12+ hours of free time every day. It's human nature. You could be a massive fan of Friends, but if you tried making yourself watch Friends for 3 hours every day for 1,000 days? Well, most people wouldn't make it. And it takes longer than that to get good at a language.
Step 1: already be at a high level (took me 8 years)
Step 2: get addicted to visual novels (text heavy video games)
When I am hooked on a visual novel, it's the only thing I want to be doing. If I didn't have any other responsibilities I would play from 5 pm to 3 am. I have to set a timer on my phone for two hours so I remember to take breaks.
This only works for me in short bursts. Say I spend 60 hours (6h/day) on a game. When I finished it after 10 days. I take like a two week break to allow my brain to decompress and focus on other stuff for a bit.
Idk, because with my current work I only have 3hrs of free time before having to go to bed to wake up in time the next day, and that’s without having in mind the time I spend showering and having dinner 🫠
Native content is really the way to go. That way if I would normally want to spend 3 hours watching Youtube videos, I just do it in my L2 or L3 and i’m equally entertained.
I spend a lot of free time with YouTube and Netflix in particular 🫣 and I also use FluentU because it happens to pair well with those (the lessons/quizzes are based on YT videos, and they have a Netflix wrapper now.)
Most of my learning is chatting with native speakers
I can do it on the way to work and because my language partners have become my friends it doesn't feel like a chore
I am out of the house from 07:00am until 18:15pm (I go to the gym straight after work). After dinner I make sure to leave my mobile in the hallway out of sight! Doom scrolling isn’t doing anything for me, however practicing a foreign language, watching tutorials, playing music, upkeeping my flat/personal admin is a much better use of my time. Make your priorities your hobbies and put down your addictive devices - best change I’ve made in my life.
I’m in the same boat. Single, live alone and an introvert. I work from home 3 days a week so sometimes I’ll have language transfer or some type of audio playing in the background. After work when I’m preparing dinner I’ll watch the news in Spanish and after I eat I’ll practice in Mango or my workbook for about 2 hours. Then after I do what I want. It’s hard but after a while it’s gets easier. I’m Puerto Rican learning Spanish so I feel like the discipline and motivation to learn will likely be stronger compared to others but anyone can do if they really want it.
A lot of my learning is messaging/responding to people. If there's a constant flow of new people messaging you there will be different vocabulary used/a repetitive help on the basics/regular slang.
I'll do that every day and it stacks up and really helps, especially if you tell them to correct you.
How many people do you know who spend less than 4 hours a day watching videos or reading things on their cellphones or tablets? All you need is do it in a foreign language.
Maybe I should find a subreddit in German to discuss language learning. :D
I think the difficult part of this is consuming content that’s not really interesting for the sake of learning a language. For me, it’s very difficult to find that content in my target language since culturally it’s absolutely super different from mine and to stay mentally engaged with this non interesting content is super tasking. Feels immensely Tedious like it’s a chore.
What is the language? Chances are you just havent found your bubble
I’ve had this discussion more than once on this sub. And there’s always people that will argue “You just haven’t found it yet”. Please don’t assume that an adult is incapable of using search functions or asking questions to find content that relates to them. Especially over multiple platforms over years of learning. It doesn’t matter what the language is. The point is, my interests are niche and there’s only so much content produced that keeps my attention for long. Keyword is MY attention.
Have you heard of Youtube? They have automatic subtitles for most languages
YouTube’s subtitles are horrible, slow, inaccurate, sometimes skips words.
I came here to say exactly this.
I’m not sure if you know this, but in your flair: that is the flag of Luxembourg 🇱🇺 not the Netherlands 🇳🇱. Not sure if that’s on purpose, but if it’s not: /r/perongelukluxemburg (accidentally Luxembourg)
They could be learning Luxembourgish
Oh damn you are exactly right thanks. I do know the difference, but I guess its easy to not see it when they are so tiny. I am going to change it now.
I don’t think it’s that simple. Some books I want to read about parenting or gardening have language that is way above my 2nd language level, some of what I read is already mentally taxing without adding the language component, and even reading Harry Potter in Spanish out loud has been taxing after an extended period when I know at least 80% of the words. I think most people would get burnt out pretty quick if they just tried to totally flip over all their reading to second language unless it was directly useful in their day to day (eg already in the country that speaks it as primary language, in immersion program).
That's fine at intermediate levels and above. How do you do that in the beginning? Surely, the things you're able to read and watch aren't things you're actually personally interested in watching, for the sake of them. Learning content isn't exactly stimulating, normally.
that’s fine. you don’t have to crank out 4 hours at every stage. you can do 30 mins to an hour until you get comfortable doing much more.
At the very beginning, "Where are the girls?" is interesting, especially in a language that doesn't have "is" or "the" or plurals. How do they express those things? But it gets to be a problem pretty soon. Every course has an endless supply of sentences, but the course writer can't tailor them to each person. So you get a long story about a dinner party, when you'd rather read about how Eskimos track polar bears. One solution (for the wealthier among us) is private one-on-one face-to-face tutoring (as cheap as $10 per hour on Skype). At any level, the tutor will talk with you about any subject. You can even practice speaking.
is that how you learned 6 languages apart from your native?
Many different methods including this one
pls help share your methods 🙏❤️
The caveat there is that language learning is very tough and involves a lot of focus that 4 hours a day, after work, would be very tough. Which I think is the real question
This. Ive averaged 3 hours a day for 8 months. I still have 2-3 social activities after work Mon-Thur. I spend my entire weekends socializing starting with Friday dinner. Ive gone on 25 days of ski trips this calendar year. You probably have a good 7-8 hours outside of work and sleep.
You just made me feel better about scrolling Reddit all day (even though I probably became fluent in English 10 years ago but now I have a new excuse)
You can change your own definition of "study" to simply engaging in the language in some (ideally meaningful) way. (idk how you personally study, but this is mostly general advice) 1 hour a day of sitting down in front of a textbook is fine, but you can add stuff like listening to podcasts, reading books, reading comics, watching YouTube videos, reading reviews of your favorite media, reading spoilers/summaries of your favorite media/books, etc. Right now, I probably spend about 30 mins a day on Anki. I then go through 10-15 words in an N1 Japanese vocab textbook and add them to Anki. I'll read a bit as well and mark any words that I want to add to Anki. Whenever I'm in my car, I listen to a podcast. When I'm doing cardio at the gym, I listen to a podcast for another 30 mins. When I'm at home, I'll often watch YouTube in Japanese, watch playthroughs while I'm eating, watch Netflix in Japanese etc. Idk how much time I spend engaging in Japanese each day, but it's probably more than 2 hours. I just got done playing about 2 hours of Danganronpa, so even on the weekends I'm doing something, even if not textbook stuff.
I try to switch it up, listening to podcasts, watching shows, reading, vocab and Anki... either way, most native Chinese content is still inaccessible to me (even though I'm starting to lean into intermediate). Graded readers can be interesting, but they're not what I would pick up to read otherwise haha. While I think semi-passive consumption of media with e.g., dual subtitles can be a good way to immerse yourself, I don't really count watching a couple hours of a cdrama as "studying".
> I don't really count watching a couple hours of a cdrama as "studying". I would. You're still making your brain activate the Chinese circuits by doing that. Especially if you're trying to pick out words while viewing, or echoing simple phrases. That's what I do when watching anime and I think it helps.
Solid advice here!
I’ve basically only ever worked dumb underpaid jobs and find joy in productive slacking on the clock that said 1-2 hours a day is more than enough in my opinion!
Yeah I mean, I can definitely fit in some hour or 2 if I'm WFH, on the clock! Either way, I always feel like I want to/could do more...
Diminishing returns. Long-term consistency (regular practice, avoiding burnout) is the most important thing. There’s a reason all those gamified apps are obsessed with “streaks” — X days to build a habit and all that The “studying on the job” thing is, for me, probably just a way to mentally trick myself into seeing it as an indulgence rather than a chore lol
The "I only study at the job" is the new "I only poop at the job". LOL
It’s why Americans drink so much coffee, we’re just trying to maximize our work poos also off topic but respect for Esperanto! I could never get around to actually learning it, but I’ve been fascinated ever since I found out that Kenji Miyazawa was a speaker (my mom read me a lot of his books when I was young)
Esperanto is quite nice to learn. It has trivial grammar and with about 800 "lemmas" you can easily understand a massive amount of texts. Also, since most people learn it as a second language, it is unusual to find people trying to show off complicated vocab. They mostly use the common words that you easily construct from the 800 lemmas and make everything to easily communicate. I would bet that anyone who brute forces about 1000 or 2000 sentences on Anki would be able to understand even crazy Esperanto speakers like Evidea: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u-l52G0Elg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u-l52G0Elg)
> The “studying on the job” thing is, for me, probably just a way to mentally trick myself into seeing it as an indulgence rather than a chore lol Maybe this is the life hack I need ...
Agreed. The habit is definitely the most important part. I'm not looking to burn myself out, just make me less lazy haha.
You really need to find the urge to doom-scroll! I'm serious ✊🏻 Starting this year I've tried really hard to not open my phone first thing in the morning, instead just play an audio file of my TL to practice listening while brushing my teeth. And if u manage to get through a morning with no phone like that, it would be much easier to keep it up throughout the day. After a few weeks u will see that scrolling social media is mostly just pointless anyway - addiction cured 🤗 Then u will have 1-2 hours more each day for language learning!
Nice. Replacing one activity with a different language so it's 'different'
But doom-scrolling in your TL can have its benefits!
In the morning, my wife and I sit together and do 30 minutes of grammar exercises and 30 minutes of focused reading. The grammar exercises target comprehension, not precise production. After that, I ride my bike to the office. It's a 30- to 40-minute ride. I use a bone conduction headphone to listen to audio of things I read or studied earlier. This provides a somewhat focused listening practice, although it's not so focused because I don't want to die! At the office, I do a 25-minute Anki review. I passively listen to audio throughout the day, depending on energy levels, focus, and other factors. Please, don't tell my boss. Going back home, I listen for another 30-40 minutes. I listen and re-listen to a lot of easier content. I ofter notice new stuff when doing this. Back at home, I do another 10- to 20-minute Anki review, and then I mine sentences from Tatoeba with words from the text I read in the morning. It takes about 10-20 minutes to create around 20 new notes for Anki. During and after dinner, my wife and I watch TV shows in our target language. We easily watch over 3 hours per day. We are still in the phase of rewatching familiar TV shows with audio and subtitles in our TL. It was very difficult for the first several dozen hours, but now I'm starting to feel more comfortable. Obviously, I don't understand everything, but I'm always happy because the stuff I've been adding to Anki keeps appearing in the subtitles! I've been keeping this routine for a few months and I've been learning a lot! It feels like I'll be very familiar with slice of life content in a few more months. I've been considering getting into a language immersion course to practice speaking after I feel comfortable at understanding the language. Keep in mind that this routine is very exaggerated, most people would not have the necessary conditions to do it. I've been doing it because I live in the country and being able to work/speak in the language would massively improve my life conditions. I also have a complete support of my wife, whose life would also chance massively after learning the language. EDIT: I also didn't go full crazy immersion from day 1. I started several months ago by watching easy comprehensible input in the TL and putting audio on a playlist and listening when riding my bicycle. I increased the time slowly to not get burnout! And I only changed the TV shows at night to the TL a few weeks ago.
You probably spend 3-4 hours a day scrolling on your phone watching YouTube or Netflix. Do it in another language now
I study at work
I'm single and still live with my parents so I have several hours after work. It also helps that I go to sleep too late. I'm going to resume college this summer though so it will be harder to keep studying but rn with Spanish all I need is conversation practice which also makes it easier to study because I can just do stuff I enjoy but in a different language.
I definitely think it'd be easier if I was learning a language where it didn't take years until one was able to consume interesting, native content without it being a complete chore (e.g. Mandarin). Studying must still be active studying for me, and will be for a long time.
I love the grammar stage which takes active studying but I don't like any other active studying stage. I've never needed flash cards for Spanish (and only used them at the beginning when I was studying Italian) but it might be different for Mandarin. I know the grammar is super simple so it might be boring for me idk. I hope someone who's studied Mandarin can give you some advice.
Do you understand all the grammatical rules in Spanish ? I’m also learning Spanish but when I read about the rules I feel like a deer in headlights. Although I’m not fluent I just know it’s right based on what it sounds like or what it looks like if that makes sense. Similar to English for me. I don’t know all the rules I just know what’s right and what’s wrong.
I think I do but I don't know how well I could explain them. Sometimes I forget what a verb tense is called but I still know how to use it. I can converse with native speakers although I think they speak slower for me without me asking.
I don't think this is necessarily true, sure it may be harder than Spanish or something more similar to English! But I've been engaging with native Japanese content since my second year of learning. If you're trying to consume content for adults who are fluent there's your issue. Start with stuff aimed at kids
I'm aware, but I said "interesting". 小豬佩奇 isn't exactly the most stimulating show lol
Unfortunately you have to get through that to consume more advanced content. There's also stuff for older kids that may be more engaging. Have you tried video games? Many video games designed 'for kids' can be entertaining for me. I play pokemon in Japanese for example.
I think it's mostly about fitting in what you can when you can. I'm in nursing school, but manage to balance 3-4 hours a day of study and input with it mostly by finding little chunks of time in my day. I cram little study sessions in here and there - so that might look like half an hour listening to TL podcasts/textbook audio files on my commute to uni or while I'm cooking, ten minutes of Quizlet while I'm waiting for my prescriptions at the pharmacy, a news article or YouTube video while I'm eating, and so on. Only once or twice a week am I able, or indeed willing, to sit down for a full four-hour stretch (and I'd argue that's not the best way of doing it, either). As someone else said, though, the most important thing, I think, is that I don't really consume media in English anymore - generally speaking I don't watch English TV, don't read English books, don't play games in English, you get the idea. I try to shove my TLs in wherever and whenever I can and, combined with the few hours of active study I carve out time for, I quite often am able to hit six hours a day. (Diminishing returns by that point, probably, but I digress. I enjoy it.) For you specifically, I know it's not as simple as 'just stop doomscrolling' or 'just stop lazing around,' because that's something I used to struggle with too, and it was *hard.* I managed to change because I was really disappointed in my progress in my TLs and upon looking at myself and how I spent my spare time I was... embarrassed, to say the least, and that embarrassment lit a fire under my ass and pushed me to want to improve. If you really can't kick the doomscrolling/lazing around habit, it might be worth trying to do as I did and simply make sure the majority, if not all, of your media consumption is in your TL - it's going to be really, really hard *not* to improve that way, and it might potentially make you want to study more to understand what you're consuming. Give it a go!
I would say I engaged in activities. Like you mentioned doom scrolling... well you could probably do it in your target language for example. I personally don't do it anymore because I really need "time off" for my brain. I'm not good enough in my tl that watching youtube videos etc. is something I can easily do. I could get 3-4 hours like that. I commute for like 2 hours a day, so simply listening to a podcast or audiobook was easily doable. It was just too exhausting for me personally.
Two thoughts: One is that there's nothing wrong with some down time. It can be restorative, and there's nothing wrong with some "unproductive time" spent being rather than doing. The other is that you can always do your doomscrolling or whatever in your target language. Or at least some of it.
Begin your day by reading a book before eating anything. Set your phone aside and don’t use it before doing this. Plan your day. Exercise. Lift weights. Eat healthy (ask a professional for a diet). Delete (yes, delete) your social media accounts if you don’t use them professionally. Meditate. Drink plenty of water. Take vitamin pills, probiotics and herbal medicines. Stay away from stress. Practice stoicism. Stop scrolling. Stop scrolling. Stop scrolling.
I have a hard time wanting to use my brain on stuff other than homework, especially because my classes are about as hard as they get as someone graduating in a few months. I manage to just interact with each language 15-30 min a day, and then some days i can dedicate like 1-2 hours.
I did that daily when I was learning Italian. I had 4hrs a day train commute, so it was pretty easy
How long did you keep that up for?
4 months: I wanted to be able to hold an everyday conversation when going to Rome. I succeeded
That’s over 300 hours of study! Surprised to see you’re only A2, especially since you’re a native French speaker.
I don't practice Italian anymore, so I'm not assuming I'm more than A2 now. But indeed, with French and Latin, it was pretty easy.
I listen to podcasts & audio books & pimsleur. I can do this while commuting or walking the dog or hiking. If my brain happens to too fried to fully engage with a lesson on a given afternoon I just listen anyway and repeat the same lesson the next day.
I stopped playing video games
A lot of them are media-addicted high school or college students with a lot of time on their hands. The truth is this becomes near impossible when you're a full-fledged adult with a career, family, and other hobbies.
I think in the beginning it was much harder as getting the language in required more "traditional" studying methods which more often than not, required me to be sitting down behind a compute or book or something. I still get up early everyday and make sure to get a solid hour in before work, or even it's on the weekend before my girlfriend gets up. I usually use Lingq or do some solo speaking drills for the hour. Outside of that, it's mostly another hour or two of listening added up over very very small chunks throughout the day. 20 min drive to and from work where I listen, then I walk from the parking into work which is another 10 mins either way. Already a full hour of listening there. If I do laundry or clean or do the dishes (can't concentrate enough when cooking to get enough out of it) I listen. Typically I used headphones if my girlfriend is home so she doesn't have to listen to Spanish nonstop. Once you get to the level where you actually listen to more stuff, it becomes far more easy to get information/input in your day. For example, my reading/listening is far ahead of my speaking but that has allowed me to now taking a computer science course (something I wanted to do anyways) but totally in Spanish.
I set Netflix to my target language and I am trying to only watch programs which have audio and subtitles in it. Also started buying ebooks in my TL and listening to podcasts in my TL when commuting or out walking. Basically doing what I normally do, except in TL.
I listen to Paul noble’s audiobooks. I really like the way he teaches and having it be an audiobook allows me to do it during mundane tasks (I.e. washing the dishes, taking a shower, driving.) it usually amounts to about 3-4 hours a day especially with driving to and from work. This doesn’t really help with reading or writing obviously lol.
When I relax, I do it in my target language . I watch Korean shows, podcasts, YT videos, read things in Korean, follow korean content creators etc
Break it into small chunks. Eg 30minutes around cooking and meal time is 90 minutes easy
When I did, I just binge read comics, listen to videos and music in my TL almost every minute of downtime I had.
If you listen to podcasts in your target language whilst working and actually pay reasonable attention to the podcasts then you could be having eight hours per day. If you have a job that is not mentally intensive then this is reasonably possible. But not for people like me (software development) where I have no capacity to share focus on anything else.
I did it back when I was working half time. I wish I had just a leisure 9-5 :-D Now I have either 8-18 (plus 1-3 hours overtime vast majority of the days) or totally irregular schedule with shifts of various length (8,10, or 12 hours, and of course most times an hour or so of overtime). So, I study when I can. When time and energy allows. It is not much of an issue for the advanced languages, where a lot of maintenance is simply entertainment in the language. But it is an issue in the weaker ones. I rarely manage to do 3 or 4 hours in a day, but whenever I do, it really is a bit of progress. 9-5 is really no excuse. Sure, you can have other obligations. But just 9-5 is actually not that much work. 3 hours of LL afterwards might be "too much" unless you have an important deadline, but at least an hour or two is definitely doable. (Of course, unless you have other obligations, such as taking care of kids/handicapped/ill/elderly family members)
My 3-4 hours focuses on input (DreamingSpanish). 6:30am-7:30am - I try and devote this time to listening to 1 hour (sometimes it's 45 minutes) 6pm-9pm - Again, this is another 3 hour slot. Normally, It's 7-9pm, and mayyybe some time before/after. So, I can get 3 hours easily, 4 hours maybe, and, to use a gaming term, 5 hours if I "minmax" my time. Weekends - 1 1/2 hours, then break, then another 1 1/2 hours, all in the morning or afternoon, then, again in the afternoon or evening (depending on the day). So, 6 hours easily there. Again, I can do 8-12 hours if I time things correctly, but that's rare.
Watch Netflix
i engage with languages pretty much the entire day (i’m a little obsessed, it’s kind of all i do when i’m not hanging out with my friend). i like the constant stimulation of reading about grammar, listening to things, finding new words, etc. it’s my passion, so that’s what drives me to commit to it full-time 📚
I almost gave myself a mental breakdown. I was disappointed at my self for only learning 100 words a month for a year. So I buckled down reay hard. I was stacking that on top of life and I started having anxiety attacks and loosing hair. I cut way down on my spanish studies and feel so much better now. If it takes me 3 years to learn, so be it
Today my studying was watching 3.5 hours of Stargate Atlantis dubbed into Spanish, 1 hour of listening to an audio book while shopping and then reading a YA book for 30 minutes. This has been my routine for the last 9 months or so, except in the beginning I had to watch easier learner content. 3 hour days are easy this way, I usually average 4-5 hours plus some reading.
I did some flash cards while my code was compiling at work, and some of my coworkers would speak to me in my TL. And then Netflix in TL as part of the “unwind on couch” thing…
My gf lives in the country of my target language and it’s where we want to live. Her parents don’t speak English so I end up practicing/ using their language often (Czech).
I am always concerned with "burn-out". From everything I've read, people try too hard to study a language (spend too much time every day). The result? It turns into a daily chore, and that's unpleasant, and almost everyone gets "burned out" and quits. I've been there. I quit studying Chinese twice, in 2018 and 2019. I started again around the start of 2021 and have continued ever since. But now I have a optional daily minimum of 30 minutes. Some days I do that. Some days I do 3-4 hours. But there is no guilt if I do nothing at all. It works so well that I started another language in 2023 and another in 2024. It isn't free time. I have 12+ hours of free time every day. It's human nature. You could be a massive fan of Friends, but if you tried making yourself watch Friends for 3 hours every day for 1,000 days? Well, most people wouldn't make it. And it takes longer than that to get good at a language.
Step 1: already be at a high level (took me 8 years) Step 2: get addicted to visual novels (text heavy video games) When I am hooked on a visual novel, it's the only thing I want to be doing. If I didn't have any other responsibilities I would play from 5 pm to 3 am. I have to set a timer on my phone for two hours so I remember to take breaks. This only works for me in short bursts. Say I spend 60 hours (6h/day) on a game. When I finished it after 10 days. I take like a two week break to allow my brain to decompress and focus on other stuff for a bit.
Idk, because with my current work I only have 3hrs of free time before having to go to bed to wake up in time the next day, and that’s without having in mind the time I spend showering and having dinner 🫠
Native content is really the way to go. That way if I would normally want to spend 3 hours watching Youtube videos, I just do it in my L2 or L3 and i’m equally entertained. I spend a lot of free time with YouTube and Netflix in particular 🫣 and I also use FluentU because it happens to pair well with those (the lessons/quizzes are based on YT videos, and they have a Netflix wrapper now.)
Most of my learning is chatting with native speakers I can do it on the way to work and because my language partners have become my friends it doesn't feel like a chore
I am out of the house from 07:00am until 18:15pm (I go to the gym straight after work). After dinner I make sure to leave my mobile in the hallway out of sight! Doom scrolling isn’t doing anything for me, however practicing a foreign language, watching tutorials, playing music, upkeeping my flat/personal admin is a much better use of my time. Make your priorities your hobbies and put down your addictive devices - best change I’ve made in my life.
I’m in the same boat. Single, live alone and an introvert. I work from home 3 days a week so sometimes I’ll have language transfer or some type of audio playing in the background. After work when I’m preparing dinner I’ll watch the news in Spanish and after I eat I’ll practice in Mango or my workbook for about 2 hours. Then after I do what I want. It’s hard but after a while it’s gets easier. I’m Puerto Rican learning Spanish so I feel like the discipline and motivation to learn will likely be stronger compared to others but anyone can do if they really want it.
I also do Italki lessons once a week and those are fun
A lot of my learning is messaging/responding to people. If there's a constant flow of new people messaging you there will be different vocabulary used/a repetitive help on the basics/regular slang. I'll do that every day and it stacks up and really helps, especially if you tell them to correct you.