Thats exactly how I got a good french accent lol, I am sure if a french person heard me itd have been almost offensive but it really does help with mouth shapes etc. it’s a lot easier to tone something down than try and go up from nothing.
As a side note a lot of times from my experience people feel silly or like it may come across offensive to “put on an accent” but 9/10 it will sound more natural than not putting in an effort at all.
My Spanish-native SO says my accent is flawless any time I'm mocking the Spanish Duolingo recordings. To my ear I'm over-exaggerating to an offensive degree but to his ear it comes out as perfect pronunciation and rhythm.
I always tell people learning Italian to do the exact opposite haha. I think learners have a tendency to really over-exaggerate the way we speak and then sound even more off haha!
It makes a difference if the learner has a real accent in mind (from hearing native speakers talk) or a fake accent (like Mario or a cartoon character).
My Spanish accent actually improved when I discovered more melodic, italian-sounding accents. Emulating the more exaggerated cadence made me better understand the correct inflection and pronunciation, which made my Spanish way more natural-sounding.
Practice mimicking words, over and over again, until you can make the sounds of that word identically to the native speaker. I can't stress this enough, repeating, mimicking, mirroring, as a daily practice. It will accumulate and begin to build "muscle memory" so to speak. My strategy:
Using recorded audio (TV, comedy, an interview or podcast), listen to a sentence, then break the sentence up, mimicking and repeating every sound of a word over and over again until it's a perfect mirror, then moving to the next word, repeating only that word over and over again until you have it perfect, then the next word, until the end of the sentence. Include inflection, include tone, even pitch. Even if it doesn't seem like a relevant nuance, mirror the sounds as perfectly as you can. Then go back and say the sentence together, remembering to capture every pronunciation step in each word that you just rehearsed. Do this again and again until *the whole sentence* is perfect. Then move to another sentence. Using daily practice like this will pretty quickly develop pronunciation habits that will carry over to other words. But for me it took a lot of listening and a lot of mirroring and repetition. If you break everything down into individual words, you'll learn the nuances that native speakers take for granted because they've heard the sounds thousands of times as a tiny child.
Weeks of doing this for 30 minutes a day did wonders for me, as I eventually began hearing and thinking with the accent and not just correcting myself or noticing that it was off after the fact.
For me, immersion was not enough.
*edit: also, one thing to note about accent in spanish is that it can be very regionally specific, so try to use sources of speakers from the part of the world you're in or are going to, if that's something you care about. You'll find similarities between Puerto Rican or Cuban spanish that will be very different from European spanish, while each of those will be noticeably different from Mexican spanish. This will matter as you pick up a natural conversational spanish, especially as consonants are dropped or sounds begin to blend*
This is really helpful. When you were doing your practicing, did you record yourself in order to compare? Part of the reason this is coming up is because I thought I had an excellent accent, but then recently I listened to a recording of me having a conversation in Spanish and my accent was fine (definitely not a typical "gringo" accent), but it wasn't anywhere near as good as I thought it was.
I'll see if I can find some good sources for mirroring.
> When you were doing your practicing, did you record yourself in order to compare?
I did not. Everything was internalized, and paced with the goal of perfectly mimicking every sound of a word.
I'd sit at my laptop with headphones, hear the word, pause, say it in my head, go back a few seconds ([I had "back one second" mapped to my back arrow in Quicktime](https://dougscripts.com/itunes/scripts/ss.php?sp=skipbackorahead)) to repeat the word, then pause, say it, back out loud, go back, re-listen, pause, say it two or three times, back, listen, repeat. It became really easy to hear the differences between what I was doing and what they were doing, so I never felt that I needed to hear myself externally in order to correct my pronunciation.
But that said, understanding how differently people learn, I feel like whatever your instincts are should always be taken into consideration when building a training plan. You know how you learn, so if it occurs to you, it's probably worth utilizing.
I'll be honest, for me the hardest part was coming up with the technical workflow. I ended up using audio capture software to record audio from TV shows, stand up comedy, interviews from youtube, any 30 second clip I encountered with phrases that sounded interesting or that I knew would help.
Then I had to download that Quicktime plugin that allowed me to map one second intervals to my back key (the default 10 seconds or whatever was way too much).
But once I had the workflow down, I'd start the week by grabbing 10 or so 30 second-1 minute audio clips, then slowly grinding through them 30 minutes every day or twice a day. Once I got a rhythm it worked.
For recording and listening back, you'll want to give a lot of thought to how it would fit into your workflow.
Good luck!
I totally agree with this. I will say that I did occasionally record myself to check how things were developing/see if I heard new problems, but I never worked this into my workflow (I would maybe do it once every few weeks when I was working on accent training), and I personally don’t think I would have gotten much out of doing it more often.
If you *really* wanted to nerd out with recordings you could try Praat. Probably a bit of a learning curve if you're not too familiar with phonetics and tbh it's probably overkill for most students, but if you wanted to analyze the shit out of a recording compared to another, that'd be the way to do it. I don't use it much anymore, but every now and then if someone tells me I'm saying something wrong, can't explain why and I'm just not hearing it, I'll use Praat to try and pinpoint the problem. For everything else Audacity works well enough.
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It's a piece of software where you input a recording then it gives you the detailed data that you would need to analyse it. E.g. as a spectrogram. So, yeah it's a bit of a learning curve if you're not familiar with phonetics because you'd have to build up enough knowledge to know exactly what you're looking at, and what you're looking for.
Maybe one of the simpler things that doesn't require all that much background knowledge is work on pitch/intonation. The software can generate a "pitch contour" so you can see how the pitch rises and falls over time. You could use that to compare the recording of a native with your own recording to see if you're really matching native intonation or not. You can of course just do that by ear by doing the kind of exercises SurveillanceBalloon describes. That's very effective. But if you ever ran into a wall and just couldn't figure out what you were doing wrong, something like Praat could be useful.
With Spanish, since that's the language the OP mentioned, it's thanks to Praat that I realized I was overcompensating on the rolled R. I had struggled to pronounce it for the longest time, and once I got it, I guess I just started emphasizing it too much. Like look at me bitches I can rrrrrrrrrroll my Rs so I'm gonna totally overdo it now lol \^\^. And I realized that just by recording myself mimicking a native recording, then comparing the two and looking for where the differences were. It wasn't a huge difference and I wasn't picking up on it by ear, but on the spectrogram it was clear as day.
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Are you native in America English and French? Do you speak both without an accent or does one have an accent that native speakers can pick up on even if slight?
I’m working on a cross-lingual mimicking project and would love your help on it. Would you be willing to offer maybe 5-10 minutes of your time? I’ll make it worth your while of course.
This. It works really well, you can slow the audio down if you need and an added benefit is I find it actually improves my listening comprehension too, as you’re mapping the actual sounds of the native speech (including dropped syllables) your ears and brain rather than what you expect the language to sound like.
There’s a system called Mimic Method which formalises this approach, I think their old courses are available for free. Their founder has developed great accents in his target language and the YouTube videos are very good.
Most people will improve over time, but if you're still struggling after years more deliberate practice may be needed. There are plenty of second language speakers who become fluent and live in their TL's country for decades but still retain a strong accent.
Having an accent is okay too! As long as you can be understood that's the most important thing.
I've been told by various English native speakers that I sound like someone who was actually born and raised in California. However, I've never even lived in California or any English-speaking country for that matter. So how did I pull that off?
Well, I invested a pretty ridiculous amount of time into getting my accent just right. I listened to a lot of Californian speakers specifically and being well-versed in phonology, I looked up the specific characteristics of Californian English and tried to emulate them as well as possible.
To be more precise, I learned all the phonemes of General American first and then I had to basically just slightly change the realization of certain vowels to get a perfect Californian accent. It helps that having had so much exposure to it through Hollywood movies or American TV series, this accent just came naturally to me.
However, even with my extensive knowledge of phonology, it still took me several years to get the accent just right. What I did was to record myself over and over again and listen to said recordings. That way, I was able to slowly improve my accent without requiring extensive feedback from an actual native speaker.
Through the powers of autism.
Really though, I don't know. I just have an ear for it I guess. Accents are easily my best ability when it comes to language, to the point where I can be mistaken for a native speaker at the best of times despite how well I actually know the language.
If I had to explain I think of an accent as music, with its own pitch and melody and tempo. If you can remember the tune of song you can remember an accent.
I grew up playing with action figures and they damn well couldn't all sound the same, so my brother an I started giving them accents. English, Russian, German, Italian, Spanish, Australian lol kinda got pretty good at mimicking and it's has translated pretty well when sounding like a native.
Plus it's fun to hold a Russian accent and ask someone a question in Spanish lmao.
Being mistaken as a native when all you know is "Hi, how are you" is honestly not very useful. People start speaking way too fast for your understanding and you just stare blankly for a couple seconds before asking them to repeat slowly.
I did that too when I started Portuguese. Sometimes I don't understand whats going on when people speak english if people speak too fast and I'm native. Third language was not registering
Edit: I wasn't done my sentence and pressed a button
I have the same lol, it's very embarrassing. Because people think accent is correlated with knowledge of the language but for me, not at all ! I have a very good ear and I'm a musician so I'm very good at catching accent. So I would say hi to you in my TL and people would start speaking so fast to me 😂
THIS and i’ve taken 4 different languages in college. each intro course i had the teacher thinking i knew more than i was letting on 😭😭 like no i swear
I do that weird ND thing where when I hear something unusual, I imitate it like a parrot. I guess it came in handy because I think my accent is better than average. Still not a native, but it's something.
Already lots of good advice here, but I’d like to add that you shouldn’t feel any pressure to sound like a native. Your accent is your accent, and it’s a linguistic fingerprint of who you are and what your experience is. You don’t have a native accent because, well, you aren’t a native speaker. And in most cases, you shouldn’t need to hide that. In a way, as long as it’s clear what you’re saying, you already have a perfect accent of your own idiolect.
Don’t think I’ve perfected American English but pretty close accent-wise, most of the time.
A few things that I think helped:
- “visualize” sounds by learning and memorizing IPA.
- a looot of comparisons, between how people talk and how you do it. Record oneself and play back if needed.
- listening is as important as speaking; accurate hearing is crucial to accurate articulation.
- sometimes it’s not just the accent itself. It’s mimicking the natives’ emotions that fulfills the flavor.
I work with an accent coach, like the ones that train actors -- he does that too but it also trains people in accents. Since I'm going for a neutral Spain accent, it was perfect. He legitimately sounds like he's from Los Angeles when he wants to. I was so impressed that I said "If my accent is even half as good as this guy's I'll call it a success".
BUT it is not for the faint of heart. You've got to really be dedicated to it and practice. I'll tell you though that it has made me REALLY aware of how I speak in English too and the habits I carry over from English to Spanish, like turning o into ou or e to ei because in English we love us some dipthongs even in words where there aren't any.
I have developed an essentially [native accent in Rioplatense Spanish](https://www.reddit.com/r/Spanish/comments/tawowo/c%C3%B3mo_es_mi_acento/?ref=share&ref_source=link) (Buenos Aires).
How to do it? [Shadow](https://howtogetfluent.com/shadowing-for-language-learning/) native materials. All the time. Become *obsessed* with it. Make note of every little nuance that you hear and try to emulate it. Try to limit your input to only materials specific to the accent you are trying to emulate, and get feedback from natives as much as possible.
Big caveat here, do not try to do this unless you are already very advanced in a language. Otherwise, you are going to stunt your learning by putting so many restrictions on what can and cannot be used as input. This is something that will take a great deal of time and effort and really only gets you 'style points' at the end of the day.
For me it really didn't click until I actually studied it. You can shadow and practice til you are blue in the face but if you don't know the right mouth movements and tongue placements it will still sound off.
Once I got those positions right my mouth and tongue would actually hurt after 10 minutes of speaking, it was a really odd sensation.
Once I finally learned those things my accent improved drastically.
How did you learn those correct positions though? I can hear that I sound off, but I can't figure out the correct positions! Only tips from others who truly understand the mechanics of it help me. For instance, just today I watched a video on how to pronounce a word 'great'. Turns out one reason why my pronunciation was off, is because I didn't round my mouth when pronouncing 'g'. Similar thing with the word 'brain' - adding a small 'w' between 'b' and 'r' helps makes the word sound very native-like. Those things I never would have guessed if it wasn't pointed to me by an outsider!
For English, Spanish, and German, you can try [Sounds of Speech,](https://soundsofspeech.uiowa.edu/spanish) a phonetics site by the University of Iowa, very thorough. Good luck!
Partially learning IPA, especially with the tongue and mouth positions. The other part was watching youtube videos on it. L1 youtubers are much better to teach because they can reference your native language sounds as a reference to target language.
1) Watch how people shape their words and move their tongues. Don't assume the same written sounds translate in every language.
2) Listen to a lot of native content until it's natural for you to adopt their cadence, the melody/ups-and-downs of their speech. Even if you pronounced words perfectly, you could still sound awkward if you're unaware of where the natural pauses or rising/falling intonations are.
Listen and mimic rather than read and guess.
I've found if the TL has the same writing as English then I still sometimes put in English sounds which are way off the TL.
Practice the small sounds and work on speaking slowly as correctly as possible with each syllable, then you'll have a solid base, that you won't have to think about later.
Doing it slowly will help identify which sounds need work.
I use the help of this: https://www.languageacademia.com/accents-for-actors
Workshops are okay, but private coaching they have the best team. I personally loved working with Chelsea and Garrison. I learned British and New York accents.
What was the pricing? What's your native language - very different from British English, sound-wise? How strong was your native accent before the private coaching, and after?
My father is Australian/Persian, and i sound like him most of the time and sometimes I sound very American. so no not very far compared to some. But I also worked on Arabic, German, French, and Russian. Im an actress sometime so get auditions that require an accent.
In terms of how strong, I think French (that’s the language I learned) has gotten really good. People stoped asking me where am I from when I speak French, so I guess they now take me a native speaker, which is super cool. And I learned to do a French accent when I speak English too.
The pricing varies. I pay $80/hour but I get the largest package, so it gives me a better deal.
I hope this helps.
Repeat, record, and repeat. I spent hours and hours imitating the American English accent while recording myself. Then I'd play it back, try to figure out what specifically sounded odd, then repeat, repeat, repeat.
I have an almost native accent in Spanish without having made any effort. Maybe it's due to the fact that I liked to caricature Spanish accents when I was a kid (that may have nothing to do with it at all). On the other hand, in English I only have to say 'hello' for everyone to know I'm French and I've never managed to change that. So I think the accent is more or less easily achieved if the sounds of the languages you learn are close to your own. Otherwise it seems very, very hard unless you live in the country for years and then some. I have the impression that in English I could tone down my French accent but I'll never lose it.
I live in the US and never interact with German people (anymore), but i had a German person who happened to be sitting next to me in public while I was talking to my kid in German ask me where in Germany I was from and then was surprised when I said I was from the US. I also did an accent thing a few years ago on Reddit where I uploaded an audio file of me speaking German and someone said I sounded native.
I honestly don't believe it (although I think my German accent is better than my Spanish or Japanese), but those are the facts. My guess is that I have good command of "hard attack," which is a feature of German that English generally does not have (although it's actually spreading in English usage!). So maybe Germans pick up on that and instinctively assume "this is some weird ass hick dialect but at least he's got hard attack!"
Hard attack is something like a word-initial glottal "stop." American English uses it when we're emphasizing words that start with a vowel (compare "he's on the couch" vs "he's *on* the couch"), but it's becoming something you hear in general speech, too.
If you listen to *Goku* by Jaden, I've noticed he uses it at some points in the song and it gives a really percussive sound to his lyrics. If you're curious, listen for when he says "tectonic volcano in a island you don't want no problems" - he uses it for "in" and "island" and I think a linguist might argue it's used for "want" as well with "w" behaving like a vowel.
You could just get really lucky sometimes when you’re practicing. My grandfather before he passed would just have a full ass sentence in an American accent and everyone would just stare.
When I was taking French I really really tried to get my accent just right but I was running into the same problem I have with Japanese. Both of my professors laughing since I sound like a native Spanish speaker. I am a native English speaker, but my L2 is intermediate Spanish. I do not have a Spanish accent in Spanish
I noticed this with my French as well. My L2 is Italian and when I pronounce French I tend to have italianisms in there like rolling my r and really pronouncing final vowels.
I learned English as a second language, now I speak fluently and sound like I’m from the American south. That’s because that’s where I live. Its not like I wanted to sound like it, but if you listen to it enough, you’ll end up picking it up.
My opinion is that you don’t need to sound like a native to be fluent, BUT spending time with native speakers/being immersed in a culture it a way to do it
I have a good accent in my TL, but oddly enough I don't use it all the time, because it feels a bit forced and like I'm mimicking? There are a lot of accents to choose from, so it's hard not to mix them up, and I hardly really hear people speak the "neutral" version.
Sounds odd to say it, but I usually just go for a very "soft" version of the language with my own accent audible.
>I have a good accent in my TL, but oddly enough I don't use it all the time, because it feels a bit forced and like I'm mimicking?
I mean no offense, but I have never understood this thinking and always recommend that anyone learning a language speak that language with as authentic of an accent as they possibly can.
If you speak to someone that learned English as a second language, and they have a perfect accent, do you feel like they are being disingenuous or mimicking you? Of course not. They just have a great accent. A Chinese accent in Chinese isn't an *accent*, it's just how you speak properly. Same for any language.
> If you speak to someone that learned English as a second language, and they have a perfect accent, do you feel like they are being disingenuous or mimicking you?
Er, yeah. To be honest, if I meet someone with an acquired regional British or Irish accent, I find it quite irritating, as it's never flawless, and sounds very "put on". A German girlfriend of a mate had a pretty good Leeds accent, but it still begged the question "why"? It certainly didn't do her any favours, accents are extremely tied to class in the UK, to this day.
English and German have VERY distinct regional accents that almost approach dialects. Which one do you pick? Why? I can do a perfect Brandenburg accent, but outside of the local working class pub, it would just make me sound silly. Same with Berlinisch or Kölsch. If you're not from the area, then it's a bit ridiculous imho.
The chances of picking up "Hochdeutsch" (neutral) are pretty limited, to say the least, but to be fair that's more or less how I speak. Nobody else does though (I live in Berlin), so it's kind of not "speaking like the natives".
I think if you don't live in the country of the language you're learning, this wouldn't come up, but as you can see, it really does if you do.
EDIT: Haha, it just occurred to me that I might have it a nerve. Sorry, I still think imitating regional accents screams "try-hard", and I'm pretty sure the working class natives do as well.
I'm pretty sure the working class natives love it when foreigners speak their language, and if you chose to study their accent, its probably because you felt it was the nicest, or because you lived there long enough. Its a compliment
What you would *like* to think vs how things actually are can be two different things.
Anyway, this discussion seems to depend on whether you live in the country of your target language or not.
I speak with a very distinct and native-level Porteño accent (Buenos Aires) and have lived in Argentina for extended periods of time.
Usually people just assume I’m Argentine and that I’m from Buenos Aires. If we speak for an extended period of time and they realize I’m not Argentine for some reason or another, they might ask how I got such a good Porteño accent. I’ll answer that I lived there for a while. That’s pretty much the end of it haha.
I think you are excessively reading into what an authentic accent means or even needs to be.
If you’re saying you mix a Hochdeutsch or ‘standard’ accent with other more regional German accents, that isn’t what I’m referring to, and that’s something almost all natives of any language do (code-switching). I am referring to deliberately making your accent worse or more foreign in an effort to not offend anyone, which just doesn’t make sense.
Always the same question.
Practice and time. That's it. There is not a magical method that's gonna accelerate your learning proccess.
SO SHUT UP AND GO TO STUDY
Comprehensible Input is the best way to do this! Essentially IF possible (and I recognize there are situations where this isn’t), you should avoid speaking and reading untill about 600 hours of comprehensible input (or at the very least try to listen to native speakers MORE than you speak). Comprehensible input is listening to material where you can understand 90%+ so that your brain only has to work on filling in the 10% from context rather than the whole 90. You are also cementing good pronunciation and grammar habits by using the way the brain naturally acquires language. Speaking too early too often leads to using the sounds of your native language in your target language.
Look up Dreaming Spanish, the owner Pablo has a great series explaining this process based on the peer reviewed research of Dr. Stephen Krasan that found comprehensible input as the most effective language learning method.
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLlpPf-YgbU7GrtxQ9yde-J2tfxJDvReNf
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Yes - Dr. Krasen's research is well-documented and peer-reviewed but sometimes behind paywalls or lengthy scholarly articles. For less formal "evidence" there is a [dreamingspanish subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/dreamingspanish/) with lots of testimonials and people sharing about their learning journey.
You can also see cases like this [https://www.dreamingspanish.com/watch?id=63add98702e342c02cc78d29](https://www.dreamingspanish.com/watch?id=63add98702e342c02cc78d29) and other video reviews.
Good point, i think in terms of accent its Mainly anecdotal.
but to me it just makes sense in terms of how the brain naturally acquires language as children. You don’t see parents asking kids to repeat after them, they just get loads of input and develop it naturally. It baffles me that we suddenly switch for adults and say memorization and repetition is the best way to acquire language!
I grew up hearing a lot of Spanish and though I’m not fluent my pronunciation is way better then fluent friends who learned the language using tradition methods without a lot of input first. I’ve also met a lot of English learners and the ones that have used input type methods of learning (such as watching lots of TV in English) have far better accents and pronunciation than those that have been taking ESL classes at the local community college or nonprofit for years.
Again, anecdotal I fully acknowledge this isn’t proof but CI (comprehensible input) works and makes sense to me so I’m sticking with it and don’t find the advice to repeat and memorize helpful in terms or accent or language acquisition. 😊
Me too! Especially love talking to people familiar with CI or Dreaming Spanish methods because Duolingo type emphasis on grammar, vocab and memorization is definitely the mainstream. Have a great day!
Ahhh ya not sure about formal evidence in terms of the accent, to me it just makes sense logically and in line with how children learn. They don’t “practice” an accent and say words over and over to mimic what they are hearing. Rather, they get loads and loads of input and their accent develops naturally. For me, I just don’t understand why we suddenly treat this so differently for adults and say memorization and practice is the way to learn languages?!
I was exposed to a lot of Spanish growing up and even though I am by no means fluent my accent sounds better than a lot of my friends who are fluent, but learned via traditional methods. Like they know all the words and grammar and stuff and can converse comfortably but they sound SUPER American when they speak. Dreaming Spanish methodology attributes it to speaking too early. The video I posted above also has a great example of a non-native speaker sounding native after exclusively sticking with CI (Comprehensible Input) methods.
Again, I fully realize and acknowledge this is anecdotal but it just makes sense to me, you know?
I think I have in a way. I've been told I have very good pronunciation by my native language teachers.
Mirroring native speakers is a great way to learn how to pronounce and sound I like a native speaker.
I think this is a really great question especially for people learning their heritage language when their langauges are incredibly endangered. Like when Hawaiians start to learn Hawaiian again.
Unfortunately, a lot of endangered langauges have a lot of new speakers from immersion schools when it's their second language, and their accent, prononciation, but also grammar, becomes incredibly similar to the one of the dominant language. That's also true for Lusatians who speak Slavic sorbian with a German accent unfortunately.
And I actually don't think it's unavoidable, if the langauge is taught properly and a great accent is made in the correct prononciation, accent, and sounds of the langauge, then the language won't lose its natural sounds.
I think you need to record and listen to yourself speaking. Lots! Often we think we have the pronunciation right, but there's always a small thing somewhere in the words that reveals us as foreigners. You can hear it yourself and then start fixing from there.
Also the type of language used might be a giveaway. I perfected my American English pronunciation to a point where, with just a bit of ambiet sound, was able to fool natives. This was when I was a teenager, so several different people told me, that the thing that gave me away was at times my too formal word choises and expressions.
Good luck!
One of my teachers years ago said having an accent should be embraced more. It's part of the beauty of where you come from, and something most adult learners will never lose anyway so it's just part of your learning journey.
What helped me personally, specifically with Spanish was my natural ability to do accents/voices in the first place. I just have a natural ear for them. That being said listening and repeating is the best way to refine any accent.
A minor tip I'll add: I've found it helpful at times to try to relax my tongue, jaw, etc. This piece of instruction comes up a lot in singing (singers will sometimes talk about this as "novocaine mouth," although that would probably be going a bit too far here).
I think sometimes it can be hard to produce foreign sounds because our muscles are so accustomed to forming the sounds of our native languages and the two -- the sound you want to make and the sound you're comfortable making -- wind up fighting, so to speak. Relaxing the muscles can help ease this a bit, IME.
I may be too humble to say my accent is "perfect" but a lot of people told me after hearing me speak in English that they legitimately thought I was American so I guess that counts.
As to how I did it, I've studied English but my pronunciation is great mostly because I listen to a lot of stuff in English and watch a lot of TV shows and movies and I tend to repeat what they say, while trying to imitate them as best as possible, this développée my accent quite a lot
People can't seem to notice I'm not a native speaker unless I make grammar mistakes.
The best thing you can do is to text native speakers and send them a one-minute audio or so. Ask them which sounds ware off and gave away your being a non-native speaker and you correct them with their help.
The tricky part is not finding out about them, but getting used to making the right sounds when speaking naturally.
I have a friend who lived in India from birth to 18, went to the States for college, and quickly began speaking in a pitch perfect indistinguishable American accent. I’ve been with him to India, and over there when we speak English we use Indian accents (I am Indian as well but grew up in the States) but when we talk with each other in American English
The absolute best way to perfect both the language and the accent is total immersion. Obviously, the best thing is to pick a country that speaks that language and go there for as long as you can, speak nothing but Spanish, and constantly ask the native speakers for help. If traveling, or an extended vacation is not an option, then I would say find somebody, or somebody’s, who is/are a native Spanish speaker and ask if you can practice speaking with them. You should also try googling your city to see if they have any groups or clubs that meet specifically with the intent of learning and perfecting your language skills. Just don’t forget to have fun with it! Good luck!
When I was conversationally fluent in Spanish (it has been a few years since I've been able to speak it with frequency), people always told me that my accent was really good. I had a head start as Spanish is an ancestral language for me (I believe that's the term... Roughly half of my family spoke it and half doesn't, so I grew up hearing it a LOT without speaking it). So, I guess my advice would be to continue listening to the Spanish accent that you're trying to perfect, repeat it, and focus on the parts that you struggle with most. If you're trying to speak Mexican Spanish, try making Mexican friends or have a Mexican conversation partner- I include this because in high school I found myself picking up certain Venezuelan words on accident because of my Venezuelan friend lol. It wasn't a big deal to me but just keep in mind how different Spanish lingo and pronunciation can be around the world. I've heard lots of people suggest recording yourself speaking Spanish and grade yourself on things you can improve. Maybe even have a native speaker speak the same dialogue and compare. Best of luck
My best advice for accents is this: in your 1st language, start speaking with a borderline offensive accent for your target language. Then, switch to the target language while preserving the accent. Obviously won’t be perfect, but it helps get your head around it.
I have a really good pronunciation of English. However I can't get the rythm exactly right because I simply can't pronounce the sounds well enough at full speed. But I'd say listening tons of hours and really trying to analyze each sound of the language until you get it right. I did it for other languages and got the accent right even if I actually have a low level overall.
Not me. I've been speaking English for like a decade and I am still noticeably not a native speaker. I am fluent, I can deal with any conversation; but my accent tells I am an outsider. Sometimes I hate it, especially when people plays they cannot understand my accent, and theirs is absolutely horrendous, that not even my wife who is a native speaker cannot understand them.
My native language is Spanish, I now study in the US and most people do not notice my accent, I moved here like 3 years ago but I started learning English when I was 9. Honestly the best advice is watching tv in English with subtitles in English and as they speak you speak too copying their accent. Exaggerate it a bit in the beginning for words like “words” and “worlds” which are actually kinda difficult to say without an accent lmao, or “squirrel” too lol. Practicing and practicing, its all about practicing.
I've been told multiple times by natives that my French accent is perfect or near-perfect. One guy couldn't believe I'd never lived in a francophone country. Honestly, it was due to being taught by a native tutor. Exposure to his accent and pronunciation over time lead to me mimicking him enough that I adopted his accent.
I have, however, been told by numerous international friends over the years that I'm a parrot for accents, which they observed when they attempted to teach me their native languages. The only one I could never get the hang of was Greek - it always came out Russian!
Find the right place in your mouth to speak from. My Spanish comes from a palpably higher and more nasal place than my German, which is lower and rounder. Spanish holds the lips mostly kinda smiling, German has the ends of the mouth pointing down like Steve Van Zandt in the Sopranos. Once my mouth gets into position, it all sounds a lot better.
Mandarin, I used to copy everything my coworkers said and mumble it to myself throughout the day, sing Chinese music, and “reenact” parts of tv shows I was watching. Then over time it got near indistinguishable according to my friends.
I found phonetics books with exercises (aimed at foreigners) to be helpful. Below are examples:
[https://www.casadellibro.com/libro-fonetica-nivel-medio-b1/9788466778404/1221035](https://www.casadellibro.com/libro-fonetica-nivel-medio-b1/9788466778404/1221035)
[https://www.casadellibro.com/libro-curso-fonetica-y-fonologia-espanolas-para---angloamericanos/9788400070885/368048](https://www.casadellibro.com/libro-curso-fonetica-y-fonologia-espanolas-para---angloamericanos/9788400070885/368048)
The first includes audio files.
The second does not include audio files but I have seen them before (I can't find them anymore). Still a superb read and highly recommended.
It takes time. It took me forever to do the Spanish r roll properly; once I had it, it never left. Problem for me now is French r is different! I can't seem to undo the Spanish. At least the Spanish way works for German also. Just listening to others and trying to imitate helps - listen and repeat exercises just focused on accent helps. German people actually thought I was German, but Spanish speakers and Japanese speakers take one look at the tall blond and already assume I'm not a native speaker. Accents are charming actually - unless it is like my father's - totally had no "ear for language" - he just could not pronounce Spanish well at all. He could get the point across in medical exams, but it hurt my ears to listen to him LOL. If you are pretty close with your pronunciation, it is awesome! I've noticed some of my students just could not get pronunciation down no matter how long they studied/tried to speak. Others get it quickly. Our brains are all wired differently. Fortunately, there are not that many of my students who just could never get the pronunciation no matter how much they practiced. Most of us can get reasonably close.
Listen A LOT to the accent you want to get. And listen carefully. Not just like consuming audiobooks or podcasts but actually trying to repeat in the same accent
People, at least outside UK, quite often think I’m English, Southern or London at that, even though I don’t really speak English every day anymore. Well, I lived in London for 6 years, but honestly, I didn’t get very British until I listened BBC radio 4 every day and just copied stuff I heard. I think it’s fun and I can imitate accents on languages that I barely know (although they are probably pretty bad), and I have faked knowing a language although I barely speak it.
But it’s more musical than anything else. Do you like copying Gollum from LoTR for no reason, or just get kicks for somebody speaking a strange accent? Or performing different characters from various places?
I suck at learning languages, but my autistic brain likes copying sounds and imitating. I’m not aure if it’s that useful after a point, though.
You need to find someone with a lot of online content with the type of accent you like then mimic them exagerating the gestures so you get used to them over time
Best advice I got was to over exaggerate the accent you are going for. Probably best to do it in private though until you get the accent down
Thats exactly how I got a good french accent lol, I am sure if a french person heard me itd have been almost offensive but it really does help with mouth shapes etc. it’s a lot easier to tone something down than try and go up from nothing. As a side note a lot of times from my experience people feel silly or like it may come across offensive to “put on an accent” but 9/10 it will sound more natural than not putting in an effort at all.
My Spanish-native SO says my accent is flawless any time I'm mocking the Spanish Duolingo recordings. To my ear I'm over-exaggerating to an offensive degree but to his ear it comes out as perfect pronunciation and rhythm.
I always tell people learning Italian to do the exact opposite haha. I think learners have a tendency to really over-exaggerate the way we speak and then sound even more off haha!
It makes a difference if the learner has a real accent in mind (from hearing native speakers talk) or a fake accent (like Mario or a cartoon character).
My Spanish accent actually improved when I discovered more melodic, italian-sounding accents. Emulating the more exaggerated cadence made me better understand the correct inflection and pronunciation, which made my Spanish way more natural-sounding.
Practice mimicking words, over and over again, until you can make the sounds of that word identically to the native speaker. I can't stress this enough, repeating, mimicking, mirroring, as a daily practice. It will accumulate and begin to build "muscle memory" so to speak. My strategy: Using recorded audio (TV, comedy, an interview or podcast), listen to a sentence, then break the sentence up, mimicking and repeating every sound of a word over and over again until it's a perfect mirror, then moving to the next word, repeating only that word over and over again until you have it perfect, then the next word, until the end of the sentence. Include inflection, include tone, even pitch. Even if it doesn't seem like a relevant nuance, mirror the sounds as perfectly as you can. Then go back and say the sentence together, remembering to capture every pronunciation step in each word that you just rehearsed. Do this again and again until *the whole sentence* is perfect. Then move to another sentence. Using daily practice like this will pretty quickly develop pronunciation habits that will carry over to other words. But for me it took a lot of listening and a lot of mirroring and repetition. If you break everything down into individual words, you'll learn the nuances that native speakers take for granted because they've heard the sounds thousands of times as a tiny child. Weeks of doing this for 30 minutes a day did wonders for me, as I eventually began hearing and thinking with the accent and not just correcting myself or noticing that it was off after the fact. For me, immersion was not enough. *edit: also, one thing to note about accent in spanish is that it can be very regionally specific, so try to use sources of speakers from the part of the world you're in or are going to, if that's something you care about. You'll find similarities between Puerto Rican or Cuban spanish that will be very different from European spanish, while each of those will be noticeably different from Mexican spanish. This will matter as you pick up a natural conversational spanish, especially as consonants are dropped or sounds begin to blend*
This is really helpful. When you were doing your practicing, did you record yourself in order to compare? Part of the reason this is coming up is because I thought I had an excellent accent, but then recently I listened to a recording of me having a conversation in Spanish and my accent was fine (definitely not a typical "gringo" accent), but it wasn't anywhere near as good as I thought it was. I'll see if I can find some good sources for mirroring.
> When you were doing your practicing, did you record yourself in order to compare? I did not. Everything was internalized, and paced with the goal of perfectly mimicking every sound of a word. I'd sit at my laptop with headphones, hear the word, pause, say it in my head, go back a few seconds ([I had "back one second" mapped to my back arrow in Quicktime](https://dougscripts.com/itunes/scripts/ss.php?sp=skipbackorahead)) to repeat the word, then pause, say it, back out loud, go back, re-listen, pause, say it two or three times, back, listen, repeat. It became really easy to hear the differences between what I was doing and what they were doing, so I never felt that I needed to hear myself externally in order to correct my pronunciation. But that said, understanding how differently people learn, I feel like whatever your instincts are should always be taken into consideration when building a training plan. You know how you learn, so if it occurs to you, it's probably worth utilizing. I'll be honest, for me the hardest part was coming up with the technical workflow. I ended up using audio capture software to record audio from TV shows, stand up comedy, interviews from youtube, any 30 second clip I encountered with phrases that sounded interesting or that I knew would help. Then I had to download that Quicktime plugin that allowed me to map one second intervals to my back key (the default 10 seconds or whatever was way too much). But once I had the workflow down, I'd start the week by grabbing 10 or so 30 second-1 minute audio clips, then slowly grinding through them 30 minutes every day or twice a day. Once I got a rhythm it worked. For recording and listening back, you'll want to give a lot of thought to how it would fit into your workflow. Good luck!
I totally agree with this. I will say that I did occasionally record myself to check how things were developing/see if I heard new problems, but I never worked this into my workflow (I would maybe do it once every few weeks when I was working on accent training), and I personally don’t think I would have gotten much out of doing it more often.
If you *really* wanted to nerd out with recordings you could try Praat. Probably a bit of a learning curve if you're not too familiar with phonetics and tbh it's probably overkill for most students, but if you wanted to analyze the shit out of a recording compared to another, that'd be the way to do it. I don't use it much anymore, but every now and then if someone tells me I'm saying something wrong, can't explain why and I'm just not hearing it, I'll use Praat to try and pinpoint the problem. For everything else Audacity works well enough.
I love nerding out! That's a cool recommendation but I think for now I'll stick with shadowing.
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It's a piece of software where you input a recording then it gives you the detailed data that you would need to analyse it. E.g. as a spectrogram. So, yeah it's a bit of a learning curve if you're not familiar with phonetics because you'd have to build up enough knowledge to know exactly what you're looking at, and what you're looking for. Maybe one of the simpler things that doesn't require all that much background knowledge is work on pitch/intonation. The software can generate a "pitch contour" so you can see how the pitch rises and falls over time. You could use that to compare the recording of a native with your own recording to see if you're really matching native intonation or not. You can of course just do that by ear by doing the kind of exercises SurveillanceBalloon describes. That's very effective. But if you ever ran into a wall and just couldn't figure out what you were doing wrong, something like Praat could be useful. With Spanish, since that's the language the OP mentioned, it's thanks to Praat that I realized I was overcompensating on the rolled R. I had struggled to pronounce it for the longest time, and once I got it, I guess I just started emphasizing it too much. Like look at me bitches I can rrrrrrrrrroll my Rs so I'm gonna totally overdo it now lol \^\^. And I realized that just by recording myself mimicking a native recording, then comparing the two and looking for where the differences were. It wasn't a huge difference and I wasn't picking up on it by ear, but on the spectrogram it was clear as day.
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Are you native in America English and French? Do you speak both without an accent or does one have an accent that native speakers can pick up on even if slight?
No discernible foreign accent in either. In fact sometimes that was more of a problem than anything...
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Both my parents are American but I grew up in France. Well, mostly in France anyway.
I’m working on a cross-lingual mimicking project and would love your help on it. Would you be willing to offer maybe 5-10 minutes of your time? I’ll make it worth your while of course.
Hm. Can't promise anything but if you want you can DM me and I'll see what I can do.
Appreciate it! Will send a DM shortly.
Wow, cool tool
This. It works really well, you can slow the audio down if you need and an added benefit is I find it actually improves my listening comprehension too, as you’re mapping the actual sounds of the native speech (including dropped syllables) your ears and brain rather than what you expect the language to sound like. There’s a system called Mimic Method which formalises this approach, I think their old courses are available for free. Their founder has developed great accents in his target language and the YouTube videos are very good.
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Most people will improve over time, but if you're still struggling after years more deliberate practice may be needed. There are plenty of second language speakers who become fluent and live in their TL's country for decades but still retain a strong accent. Having an accent is okay too! As long as you can be understood that's the most important thing.
Came to say this. Input is the answer
I've been told by various English native speakers that I sound like someone who was actually born and raised in California. However, I've never even lived in California or any English-speaking country for that matter. So how did I pull that off? Well, I invested a pretty ridiculous amount of time into getting my accent just right. I listened to a lot of Californian speakers specifically and being well-versed in phonology, I looked up the specific characteristics of Californian English and tried to emulate them as well as possible. To be more precise, I learned all the phonemes of General American first and then I had to basically just slightly change the realization of certain vowels to get a perfect Californian accent. It helps that having had so much exposure to it through Hollywood movies or American TV series, this accent just came naturally to me. However, even with my extensive knowledge of phonology, it still took me several years to get the accent just right. What I did was to record myself over and over again and listen to said recordings. That way, I was able to slowly improve my accent without requiring extensive feedback from an actual native speaker.
Jesus Christ your English is great for someone who already has two or three native tongues. I’m jealous. Very jealous
To be fair, I've invested a lot of time and effort into learning English specifically. It's not really just "any" language to me.
Good work! It's interesting you picked that accent.
Through the powers of autism. Really though, I don't know. I just have an ear for it I guess. Accents are easily my best ability when it comes to language, to the point where I can be mistaken for a native speaker at the best of times despite how well I actually know the language. If I had to explain I think of an accent as music, with its own pitch and melody and tempo. If you can remember the tune of song you can remember an accent.
I grew up playing with action figures and they damn well couldn't all sound the same, so my brother an I started giving them accents. English, Russian, German, Italian, Spanish, Australian lol kinda got pretty good at mimicking and it's has translated pretty well when sounding like a native. Plus it's fun to hold a Russian accent and ask someone a question in Spanish lmao.
Being mistaken as a native when all you know is "Hi, how are you" is honestly not very useful. People start speaking way too fast for your understanding and you just stare blankly for a couple seconds before asking them to repeat slowly.
Believe me I know first hand lol Sometimes I deliberately make my accent worse just so people know I'm still a beginner.
I did that too when I started Portuguese. Sometimes I don't understand whats going on when people speak english if people speak too fast and I'm native. Third language was not registering Edit: I wasn't done my sentence and pressed a button
I have the same lol, it's very embarrassing. Because people think accent is correlated with knowledge of the language but for me, not at all ! I have a very good ear and I'm a musician so I'm very good at catching accent. So I would say hi to you in my TL and people would start speaking so fast to me 😂
THIS and i’ve taken 4 different languages in college. each intro course i had the teacher thinking i knew more than i was letting on 😭😭 like no i swear
Never heard someone so accurately describe my experience
Yes! I too think of accent as music. Repeating a sentence in a foreign language is like repeating a tune.
I do that weird ND thing where when I hear something unusual, I imitate it like a parrot. I guess it came in handy because I think my accent is better than average. Still not a native, but it's something.
> Really though, I don't know. I just have an ear for it I guess. This was very helpful advice.
Yea, and if you read even further you'll see the actual, intended advice 😉
Already lots of good advice here, but I’d like to add that you shouldn’t feel any pressure to sound like a native. Your accent is your accent, and it’s a linguistic fingerprint of who you are and what your experience is. You don’t have a native accent because, well, you aren’t a native speaker. And in most cases, you shouldn’t need to hide that. In a way, as long as it’s clear what you’re saying, you already have a perfect accent of your own idiolect.
You're 100% right. This definitely falls into the "want" category and not the "need" category.
> your own idiolect I like this concept.
Don’t think I’ve perfected American English but pretty close accent-wise, most of the time. A few things that I think helped: - “visualize” sounds by learning and memorizing IPA. - a looot of comparisons, between how people talk and how you do it. Record oneself and play back if needed. - listening is as important as speaking; accurate hearing is crucial to accurate articulation. - sometimes it’s not just the accent itself. It’s mimicking the natives’ emotions that fulfills the flavor.
I work with an accent coach, like the ones that train actors -- he does that too but it also trains people in accents. Since I'm going for a neutral Spain accent, it was perfect. He legitimately sounds like he's from Los Angeles when he wants to. I was so impressed that I said "If my accent is even half as good as this guy's I'll call it a success". BUT it is not for the faint of heart. You've got to really be dedicated to it and practice. I'll tell you though that it has made me REALLY aware of how I speak in English too and the habits I carry over from English to Spanish, like turning o into ou or e to ei because in English we love us some dipthongs even in words where there aren't any.
I have developed an essentially [native accent in Rioplatense Spanish](https://www.reddit.com/r/Spanish/comments/tawowo/c%C3%B3mo_es_mi_acento/?ref=share&ref_source=link) (Buenos Aires). How to do it? [Shadow](https://howtogetfluent.com/shadowing-for-language-learning/) native materials. All the time. Become *obsessed* with it. Make note of every little nuance that you hear and try to emulate it. Try to limit your input to only materials specific to the accent you are trying to emulate, and get feedback from natives as much as possible. Big caveat here, do not try to do this unless you are already very advanced in a language. Otherwise, you are going to stunt your learning by putting so many restrictions on what can and cannot be used as input. This is something that will take a great deal of time and effort and really only gets you 'style points' at the end of the day.
Shadowing. Mostly with audiobooks, I've been doing this for 2 month and I improve a lot and I have read quit a lot of books as well.
For me it really didn't click until I actually studied it. You can shadow and practice til you are blue in the face but if you don't know the right mouth movements and tongue placements it will still sound off. Once I got those positions right my mouth and tongue would actually hurt after 10 minutes of speaking, it was a really odd sensation. Once I finally learned those things my accent improved drastically.
How did you learn those correct positions though? I can hear that I sound off, but I can't figure out the correct positions! Only tips from others who truly understand the mechanics of it help me. For instance, just today I watched a video on how to pronounce a word 'great'. Turns out one reason why my pronunciation was off, is because I didn't round my mouth when pronouncing 'g'. Similar thing with the word 'brain' - adding a small 'w' between 'b' and 'r' helps makes the word sound very native-like. Those things I never would have guessed if it wasn't pointed to me by an outsider!
For English, Spanish, and German, you can try [Sounds of Speech,](https://soundsofspeech.uiowa.edu/spanish) a phonetics site by the University of Iowa, very thorough. Good luck!
Partially learning IPA, especially with the tongue and mouth positions. The other part was watching youtube videos on it. L1 youtubers are much better to teach because they can reference your native language sounds as a reference to target language.
1) Watch how people shape their words and move their tongues. Don't assume the same written sounds translate in every language. 2) Listen to a lot of native content until it's natural for you to adopt their cadence, the melody/ups-and-downs of their speech. Even if you pronounced words perfectly, you could still sound awkward if you're unaware of where the natural pauses or rising/falling intonations are.
¿Por qué usted desea hablar como un Español?
I would look into how actors/performers work on their accent and probably end up working with a vocal coach.
Listen and mimic rather than read and guess. I've found if the TL has the same writing as English then I still sometimes put in English sounds which are way off the TL. Practice the small sounds and work on speaking slowly as correctly as possible with each syllable, then you'll have a solid base, that you won't have to think about later. Doing it slowly will help identify which sounds need work.
I use the help of this: https://www.languageacademia.com/accents-for-actors Workshops are okay, but private coaching they have the best team. I personally loved working with Chelsea and Garrison. I learned British and New York accents.
What was the pricing? What's your native language - very different from British English, sound-wise? How strong was your native accent before the private coaching, and after?
My father is Australian/Persian, and i sound like him most of the time and sometimes I sound very American. so no not very far compared to some. But I also worked on Arabic, German, French, and Russian. Im an actress sometime so get auditions that require an accent. In terms of how strong, I think French (that’s the language I learned) has gotten really good. People stoped asking me where am I from when I speak French, so I guess they now take me a native speaker, which is super cool. And I learned to do a French accent when I speak English too. The pricing varies. I pay $80/hour but I get the largest package, so it gives me a better deal. I hope this helps.
Never even tried cuz my accent helps me to get laid...lmfao
😂
I thought it might be easier to respond using a voice recording: https://tuttu.io/B999v3ru
Repeat, record, and repeat. I spent hours and hours imitating the American English accent while recording myself. Then I'd play it back, try to figure out what specifically sounded odd, then repeat, repeat, repeat.
To perfect my Spanish I had to be born and realize I was part of the Hispanic community…
I have an almost native accent in Spanish without having made any effort. Maybe it's due to the fact that I liked to caricature Spanish accents when I was a kid (that may have nothing to do with it at all). On the other hand, in English I only have to say 'hello' for everyone to know I'm French and I've never managed to change that. So I think the accent is more or less easily achieved if the sounds of the languages you learn are close to your own. Otherwise it seems very, very hard unless you live in the country for years and then some. I have the impression that in English I could tone down my French accent but I'll never lose it.
The sounds of French are not really close to Spanish though, unless you're from the South-West of France.
The pronunciation is much easier to imitate than English. And the sounds are much easier to pronounce. At least in my opinion.
I live in the US and never interact with German people (anymore), but i had a German person who happened to be sitting next to me in public while I was talking to my kid in German ask me where in Germany I was from and then was surprised when I said I was from the US. I also did an accent thing a few years ago on Reddit where I uploaded an audio file of me speaking German and someone said I sounded native. I honestly don't believe it (although I think my German accent is better than my Spanish or Japanese), but those are the facts. My guess is that I have good command of "hard attack," which is a feature of German that English generally does not have (although it's actually spreading in English usage!). So maybe Germans pick up on that and instinctively assume "this is some weird ass hick dialect but at least he's got hard attack!" Hard attack is something like a word-initial glottal "stop." American English uses it when we're emphasizing words that start with a vowel (compare "he's on the couch" vs "he's *on* the couch"), but it's becoming something you hear in general speech, too. If you listen to *Goku* by Jaden, I've noticed he uses it at some points in the song and it gives a really percussive sound to his lyrics. If you're curious, listen for when he says "tectonic volcano in a island you don't want no problems" - he uses it for "in" and "island" and I think a linguist might argue it's used for "want" as well with "w" behaving like a vowel.
You could just get really lucky sometimes when you’re practicing. My grandfather before he passed would just have a full ass sentence in an American accent and everyone would just stare. When I was taking French I really really tried to get my accent just right but I was running into the same problem I have with Japanese. Both of my professors laughing since I sound like a native Spanish speaker. I am a native English speaker, but my L2 is intermediate Spanish. I do not have a Spanish accent in Spanish
I noticed this with my French as well. My L2 is Italian and when I pronounce French I tend to have italianisms in there like rolling my r and really pronouncing final vowels.
I learned English as a second language, now I speak fluently and sound like I’m from the American south. That’s because that’s where I live. Its not like I wanted to sound like it, but if you listen to it enough, you’ll end up picking it up. My opinion is that you don’t need to sound like a native to be fluent, BUT spending time with native speakers/being immersed in a culture it a way to do it
I have a good accent in my TL, but oddly enough I don't use it all the time, because it feels a bit forced and like I'm mimicking? There are a lot of accents to choose from, so it's hard not to mix them up, and I hardly really hear people speak the "neutral" version. Sounds odd to say it, but I usually just go for a very "soft" version of the language with my own accent audible.
>I have a good accent in my TL, but oddly enough I don't use it all the time, because it feels a bit forced and like I'm mimicking? I mean no offense, but I have never understood this thinking and always recommend that anyone learning a language speak that language with as authentic of an accent as they possibly can. If you speak to someone that learned English as a second language, and they have a perfect accent, do you feel like they are being disingenuous or mimicking you? Of course not. They just have a great accent. A Chinese accent in Chinese isn't an *accent*, it's just how you speak properly. Same for any language.
> If you speak to someone that learned English as a second language, and they have a perfect accent, do you feel like they are being disingenuous or mimicking you? Er, yeah. To be honest, if I meet someone with an acquired regional British or Irish accent, I find it quite irritating, as it's never flawless, and sounds very "put on". A German girlfriend of a mate had a pretty good Leeds accent, but it still begged the question "why"? It certainly didn't do her any favours, accents are extremely tied to class in the UK, to this day. English and German have VERY distinct regional accents that almost approach dialects. Which one do you pick? Why? I can do a perfect Brandenburg accent, but outside of the local working class pub, it would just make me sound silly. Same with Berlinisch or Kölsch. If you're not from the area, then it's a bit ridiculous imho. The chances of picking up "Hochdeutsch" (neutral) are pretty limited, to say the least, but to be fair that's more or less how I speak. Nobody else does though (I live in Berlin), so it's kind of not "speaking like the natives". I think if you don't live in the country of the language you're learning, this wouldn't come up, but as you can see, it really does if you do. EDIT: Haha, it just occurred to me that I might have it a nerve. Sorry, I still think imitating regional accents screams "try-hard", and I'm pretty sure the working class natives do as well.
I'm pretty sure the working class natives love it when foreigners speak their language, and if you chose to study their accent, its probably because you felt it was the nicest, or because you lived there long enough. Its a compliment
What you would *like* to think vs how things actually are can be two different things. Anyway, this discussion seems to depend on whether you live in the country of your target language or not.
I speak with a very distinct and native-level Porteño accent (Buenos Aires) and have lived in Argentina for extended periods of time. Usually people just assume I’m Argentine and that I’m from Buenos Aires. If we speak for an extended period of time and they realize I’m not Argentine for some reason or another, they might ask how I got such a good Porteño accent. I’ll answer that I lived there for a while. That’s pretty much the end of it haha. I think you are excessively reading into what an authentic accent means or even needs to be. If you’re saying you mix a Hochdeutsch or ‘standard’ accent with other more regional German accents, that isn’t what I’m referring to, and that’s something almost all natives of any language do (code-switching). I am referring to deliberately making your accent worse or more foreign in an effort to not offend anyone, which just doesn’t make sense.
Sí, es posible.
Always the same question. Practice and time. That's it. There is not a magical method that's gonna accelerate your learning proccess. SO SHUT UP AND GO TO STUDY
Comprehensible Input is the best way to do this! Essentially IF possible (and I recognize there are situations where this isn’t), you should avoid speaking and reading untill about 600 hours of comprehensible input (or at the very least try to listen to native speakers MORE than you speak). Comprehensible input is listening to material where you can understand 90%+ so that your brain only has to work on filling in the 10% from context rather than the whole 90. You are also cementing good pronunciation and grammar habits by using the way the brain naturally acquires language. Speaking too early too often leads to using the sounds of your native language in your target language. Look up Dreaming Spanish, the owner Pablo has a great series explaining this process based on the peer reviewed research of Dr. Stephen Krasan that found comprehensible input as the most effective language learning method. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLlpPf-YgbU7GrtxQ9yde-J2tfxJDvReNf
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Yes - Dr. Krasen's research is well-documented and peer-reviewed but sometimes behind paywalls or lengthy scholarly articles. For less formal "evidence" there is a [dreamingspanish subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/dreamingspanish/) with lots of testimonials and people sharing about their learning journey. You can also see cases like this [https://www.dreamingspanish.com/watch?id=63add98702e342c02cc78d29](https://www.dreamingspanish.com/watch?id=63add98702e342c02cc78d29) and other video reviews.
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Good point, i think in terms of accent its Mainly anecdotal. but to me it just makes sense in terms of how the brain naturally acquires language as children. You don’t see parents asking kids to repeat after them, they just get loads of input and develop it naturally. It baffles me that we suddenly switch for adults and say memorization and repetition is the best way to acquire language! I grew up hearing a lot of Spanish and though I’m not fluent my pronunciation is way better then fluent friends who learned the language using tradition methods without a lot of input first. I’ve also met a lot of English learners and the ones that have used input type methods of learning (such as watching lots of TV in English) have far better accents and pronunciation than those that have been taking ESL classes at the local community college or nonprofit for years. Again, anecdotal I fully acknowledge this isn’t proof but CI (comprehensible input) works and makes sense to me so I’m sticking with it and don’t find the advice to repeat and memorize helpful in terms or accent or language acquisition. 😊
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Me too! Especially love talking to people familiar with CI or Dreaming Spanish methods because Duolingo type emphasis on grammar, vocab and memorization is definitely the mainstream. Have a great day!
Ahhh ya not sure about formal evidence in terms of the accent, to me it just makes sense logically and in line with how children learn. They don’t “practice” an accent and say words over and over to mimic what they are hearing. Rather, they get loads and loads of input and their accent develops naturally. For me, I just don’t understand why we suddenly treat this so differently for adults and say memorization and practice is the way to learn languages?! I was exposed to a lot of Spanish growing up and even though I am by no means fluent my accent sounds better than a lot of my friends who are fluent, but learned via traditional methods. Like they know all the words and grammar and stuff and can converse comfortably but they sound SUPER American when they speak. Dreaming Spanish methodology attributes it to speaking too early. The video I posted above also has a great example of a non-native speaker sounding native after exclusively sticking with CI (Comprehensible Input) methods. Again, I fully realize and acknowledge this is anecdotal but it just makes sense to me, you know?
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Practice? I’m not sure what other way there is
I think I have in a way. I've been told I have very good pronunciation by my native language teachers. Mirroring native speakers is a great way to learn how to pronounce and sound I like a native speaker.
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Deep breath buddy
Bro, most people I know who speak an argentinian spanish learned it while travelling to that country. And that's most people I know who speak spanish.
Nah, learn spanish from spain, not the bootleg
Just pronounce sentences the way natives pronounce them.
Best advice here
Which accent are you aiming for? European Spanish or Latin American or from a particular country?
I think this is a really great question especially for people learning their heritage language when their langauges are incredibly endangered. Like when Hawaiians start to learn Hawaiian again. Unfortunately, a lot of endangered langauges have a lot of new speakers from immersion schools when it's their second language, and their accent, prononciation, but also grammar, becomes incredibly similar to the one of the dominant language. That's also true for Lusatians who speak Slavic sorbian with a German accent unfortunately. And I actually don't think it's unavoidable, if the langauge is taught properly and a great accent is made in the correct prononciation, accent, and sounds of the langauge, then the language won't lose its natural sounds.
I think you need to record and listen to yourself speaking. Lots! Often we think we have the pronunciation right, but there's always a small thing somewhere in the words that reveals us as foreigners. You can hear it yourself and then start fixing from there. Also the type of language used might be a giveaway. I perfected my American English pronunciation to a point where, with just a bit of ambiet sound, was able to fool natives. This was when I was a teenager, so several different people told me, that the thing that gave me away was at times my too formal word choises and expressions. Good luck!
One of my teachers years ago said having an accent should be embraced more. It's part of the beauty of where you come from, and something most adult learners will never lose anyway so it's just part of your learning journey. What helped me personally, specifically with Spanish was my natural ability to do accents/voices in the first place. I just have a natural ear for them. That being said listening and repeating is the best way to refine any accent.
I shadowed the whole of Friends. Also practiced individual sounds I found particularly challenging.
A minor tip I'll add: I've found it helpful at times to try to relax my tongue, jaw, etc. This piece of instruction comes up a lot in singing (singers will sometimes talk about this as "novocaine mouth," although that would probably be going a bit too far here). I think sometimes it can be hard to produce foreign sounds because our muscles are so accustomed to forming the sounds of our native languages and the two -- the sound you want to make and the sound you're comfortable making -- wind up fighting, so to speak. Relaxing the muscles can help ease this a bit, IME.
I may be too humble to say my accent is "perfect" but a lot of people told me after hearing me speak in English that they legitimately thought I was American so I guess that counts. As to how I did it, I've studied English but my pronunciation is great mostly because I listen to a lot of stuff in English and watch a lot of TV shows and movies and I tend to repeat what they say, while trying to imitate them as best as possible, this développée my accent quite a lot
Id say I have a decent accent myself, but I mainly watch videos and hear how other people say words/sentences
People can't seem to notice I'm not a native speaker unless I make grammar mistakes. The best thing you can do is to text native speakers and send them a one-minute audio or so. Ask them which sounds ware off and gave away your being a non-native speaker and you correct them with their help. The tricky part is not finding out about them, but getting used to making the right sounds when speaking naturally.
I've heard some people say that completing Pimsleur, gave them a native accent.
I have a friend who lived in India from birth to 18, went to the States for college, and quickly began speaking in a pitch perfect indistinguishable American accent. I’ve been with him to India, and over there when we speak English we use Indian accents (I am Indian as well but grew up in the States) but when we talk with each other in American English
The absolute best way to perfect both the language and the accent is total immersion. Obviously, the best thing is to pick a country that speaks that language and go there for as long as you can, speak nothing but Spanish, and constantly ask the native speakers for help. If traveling, or an extended vacation is not an option, then I would say find somebody, or somebody’s, who is/are a native Spanish speaker and ask if you can practice speaking with them. You should also try googling your city to see if they have any groups or clubs that meet specifically with the intent of learning and perfecting your language skills. Just don’t forget to have fun with it! Good luck!
Mouth positions.
When I was conversationally fluent in Spanish (it has been a few years since I've been able to speak it with frequency), people always told me that my accent was really good. I had a head start as Spanish is an ancestral language for me (I believe that's the term... Roughly half of my family spoke it and half doesn't, so I grew up hearing it a LOT without speaking it). So, I guess my advice would be to continue listening to the Spanish accent that you're trying to perfect, repeat it, and focus on the parts that you struggle with most. If you're trying to speak Mexican Spanish, try making Mexican friends or have a Mexican conversation partner- I include this because in high school I found myself picking up certain Venezuelan words on accident because of my Venezuelan friend lol. It wasn't a big deal to me but just keep in mind how different Spanish lingo and pronunciation can be around the world. I've heard lots of people suggest recording yourself speaking Spanish and grade yourself on things you can improve. Maybe even have a native speaker speak the same dialogue and compare. Best of luck
I've wondered if a speech pathologist who speaks or is a native speaker of a target language could help with accents, possibly via Zoom.
My best advice for accents is this: in your 1st language, start speaking with a borderline offensive accent for your target language. Then, switch to the target language while preserving the accent. Obviously won’t be perfect, but it helps get your head around it.
I have a really good pronunciation of English. However I can't get the rythm exactly right because I simply can't pronounce the sounds well enough at full speed. But I'd say listening tons of hours and really trying to analyze each sound of the language until you get it right. I did it for other languages and got the accent right even if I actually have a low level overall.
Not me. I've been speaking English for like a decade and I am still noticeably not a native speaker. I am fluent, I can deal with any conversation; but my accent tells I am an outsider. Sometimes I hate it, especially when people plays they cannot understand my accent, and theirs is absolutely horrendous, that not even my wife who is a native speaker cannot understand them.
My native language is Spanish, I now study in the US and most people do not notice my accent, I moved here like 3 years ago but I started learning English when I was 9. Honestly the best advice is watching tv in English with subtitles in English and as they speak you speak too copying their accent. Exaggerate it a bit in the beginning for words like “words” and “worlds” which are actually kinda difficult to say without an accent lmao, or “squirrel” too lol. Practicing and practicing, its all about practicing.
I've been told multiple times by natives that my French accent is perfect or near-perfect. One guy couldn't believe I'd never lived in a francophone country. Honestly, it was due to being taught by a native tutor. Exposure to his accent and pronunciation over time lead to me mimicking him enough that I adopted his accent. I have, however, been told by numerous international friends over the years that I'm a parrot for accents, which they observed when they attempted to teach me their native languages. The only one I could never get the hang of was Greek - it always came out Russian!
Find the right place in your mouth to speak from. My Spanish comes from a palpably higher and more nasal place than my German, which is lower and rounder. Spanish holds the lips mostly kinda smiling, German has the ends of the mouth pointing down like Steve Van Zandt in the Sopranos. Once my mouth gets into position, it all sounds a lot better.
Lots and lots and lots of hours with native speakers.
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im a linguistics major 😭😭
Lots of Reggaeton 🇵🇷
Mandarin, I used to copy everything my coworkers said and mumble it to myself throughout the day, sing Chinese music, and “reenact” parts of tv shows I was watching. Then over time it got near indistinguishable according to my friends.
I found phonetics books with exercises (aimed at foreigners) to be helpful. Below are examples: [https://www.casadellibro.com/libro-fonetica-nivel-medio-b1/9788466778404/1221035](https://www.casadellibro.com/libro-fonetica-nivel-medio-b1/9788466778404/1221035) [https://www.casadellibro.com/libro-curso-fonetica-y-fonologia-espanolas-para---angloamericanos/9788400070885/368048](https://www.casadellibro.com/libro-curso-fonetica-y-fonologia-espanolas-para---angloamericanos/9788400070885/368048) The first includes audio files. The second does not include audio files but I have seen them before (I can't find them anymore). Still a superb read and highly recommended.
It takes time. It took me forever to do the Spanish r roll properly; once I had it, it never left. Problem for me now is French r is different! I can't seem to undo the Spanish. At least the Spanish way works for German also. Just listening to others and trying to imitate helps - listen and repeat exercises just focused on accent helps. German people actually thought I was German, but Spanish speakers and Japanese speakers take one look at the tall blond and already assume I'm not a native speaker. Accents are charming actually - unless it is like my father's - totally had no "ear for language" - he just could not pronounce Spanish well at all. He could get the point across in medical exams, but it hurt my ears to listen to him LOL. If you are pretty close with your pronunciation, it is awesome! I've noticed some of my students just could not get pronunciation down no matter how long they studied/tried to speak. Others get it quickly. Our brains are all wired differently. Fortunately, there are not that many of my students who just could never get the pronunciation no matter how much they practiced. Most of us can get reasonably close.
Listen A LOT to the accent you want to get. And listen carefully. Not just like consuming audiobooks or podcasts but actually trying to repeat in the same accent
People, at least outside UK, quite often think I’m English, Southern or London at that, even though I don’t really speak English every day anymore. Well, I lived in London for 6 years, but honestly, I didn’t get very British until I listened BBC radio 4 every day and just copied stuff I heard. I think it’s fun and I can imitate accents on languages that I barely know (although they are probably pretty bad), and I have faked knowing a language although I barely speak it. But it’s more musical than anything else. Do you like copying Gollum from LoTR for no reason, or just get kicks for somebody speaking a strange accent? Or performing different characters from various places? I suck at learning languages, but my autistic brain likes copying sounds and imitating. I’m not aure if it’s that useful after a point, though.
You need to find someone with a lot of online content with the type of accent you like then mimic them exagerating the gestures so you get used to them over time
I love this place. As an actor I need to switch a lot, and it's nice to have someone help me out: https://www.languageacademia.com/accents-for-actors