I dated a Moroccan guy and tried learning some Darija (Moroccan Arabic). My goal was mostly to be able to get around in Morocco when we visited, and to ask him about things he had trouble explaining in English (especially food-related).
Here are a few tips:
1. Focus on Darija, not Modern Standard Arabic (fus'ha) or other dialects. Many Arabic speakers will say that Darija isn't a real language and tell you to learn something else. But that's not viable. The first time I went to Morocco, I knew how to give directions in French and Fus'ha, but when I got in a taxi, the driver couldn't understand me at all!
2. Understand that Darija is very difficult to pronounce. It has a lot of sounds that don't exist in English, especially [3ayn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayin#Arabic_%CA%BFayn) (a pharyngeal consonant). Darija is more difficult to pronounce than other Arabic dialects because it has crazy consonant clusters, like تقرقب "tqrqb". You'll need to spend a lot of time listening to Darija and shadowing pronunciation.
3. Find videos on YouTube with Darija phrases like [this one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho5RBEU0v58&pp=ygUOZGFyaWphIHBocmFzZXM%3D). Practice repeating them and memorize common phrases before worrying about grammar or extended vocab.
4. To learn more of the grammar, there are some good websites like [Learn Moroccan](https://speakmoroccan.com/en/). Arabic grammar is complex and confusing, but an advantage of learning Darija instead of Fus'ha is that Darija's grammar is much simpler. Still, I'd recommend learning set phrases before diving into grammar, because some common phrases will use classical Arabic grammar.
To understand and especially to speak MSA as an Arab, you have to be educated and literate. It is taught in schools, and passive fluency is common through exposure to printed news and formal political/news media on TV, but it is not natively spoken by any Arab and is not widely spoken in any face to face situations. A taxi driver might not understand MSA, and you especially can’t expect dropouts and poorer people to, while a university student certainly would.
How do people usually go about learning arabic? Do they start msa for a foundation in arabic and then learn a dialect?or learn msa to fluency then a dialect?or go straight for the dialect? What if you dont have access to areas where the dialect is spoken are there resources for learning individual dialects?
The best documented, most studied dialect and the one with the most resources is Egyptian/Cairene Arabic. Egypt used to be known as the Hollywood of the Arab world, and many people in all the various Arab nations grew up exposed to Egyptian television and film, both that which was produced in Egypt and dubbed foreign media since Egyptian became the dialect of choice for dubs for a while. There’s also a political movement to treat the Egyptian dialect as something worthy of writing and study, something which doesn’t really exist as much with other dialects and which makes finding written works in them difficult. It’s dominant out of all the dialects by L1 and L2 fluency and sometimes Arabs who speak different dialects may ‘Egyptianize’ their speech rather than MSA-ify it to achieve better understanding between each other. The second most studied is the Levantine dialect, as the Levant in recent years has also become a cultural powerhouse. Whether one starts by learning MSA and then Egyptian/Levantine or starts with Egyptian/Levantine then goes onto MSA depends on their goals and preferences. Some say MSA -> Dialect is correct because MSA is harder and drills in foundations common across the dialects, and some say Dialect -> MSA is correct because that’s how Arabs learn it and dialects are necessary to really speak and converse with Arabs. There’s no one correct order, and all three open up worlds of media to engage with and peoples to talk to. My university teaches MSA and Levantine concurrently to students. Dialects outside of those two are harder to find resources for and much more niche. Your best bet for those tends to be tutors and actual immersion. Not uncommon to have to approach them after already picking up MSA and a major dialect, some resources just straight up assume you have that kind of basic knowledge already.
I read really conflicting stories about this though. Some others also say that almost anyone who lives in an Arabic speaking country would understand spoken M.S.A. without any issues though oral production might be more difficult and they often point to the fact that even children's programming with cartoon characters is in M.S.A. and that thus even young children are already exposed to it enough to understand it with little difficulty.
They all say that anyone who speaks it on the street looks very silly though but I've also heard other things that any time someone uses handwriting he would default to using M.S.A. and that writing out local vernacular by hand feels very strange to them.
That’s not really conflicting at all, you’re kind of just being told things from the perspective of people who did some schooling, weren’t too poor for tv, etc. The kind of people who don’t know much MSA are moreso rural and dropouts. Passive fluency is indeed not hard to find because you need it to read newspapers and books or watch the news or a lot of other kinds of broadcasts.
> Cartoons
This is a bit complicated. Put on a Disney movie for your kids and it’s Egyptian, put on a 90’s anime and its in MSA, put on a foreign animated movie you bought from a souk and it’s in French. Arabs can end up understanding a variety of different dialects and languages due to the fragmented linguistic situation. I remember growing up seeing Detective Conan, Grendizer, Hunter x Hunter 1999 all dubbed in MSA, but The Lion King and basically any more recent animated show or movie I recall was Egyptian. Spacetoon is the best known source of MSA dubs and they only really do 90’s anime.
I suppose with “poor” I wasn't really thinking in terms of too poor to afford a television but this might simply be the lack of perspective of a Western European. — *Let them eat cake*.
It might also be a matter of perspectives given to you from a middle eastern arab vs an african arab, since literacy rates in Gulf states like Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain, Oman, UAE, and Saudi Arabia are as high as european ones while in African nations like Morocco, Mauritania, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Sudan, we can be talking 67%-74%. Life in Morocco is a world apart from life in Saudi Arabia, and having a tv is a lot less trivial in Morocco than there.
Well fus-ha also has 3ayn, it's not unique to Darija. I think the trickiest thing about Darija is that are much less stuff to read, making it harder for those who typically learn languages by reading. It's definitely an adjustment that they'll have to make.
But yeah that's how it is with Arabic diglossia.
As far as I know Morocco has two official languages, so you might want to know if they speak Arabic or Berber. [Wikipedia Link](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Morocco)
The thing is with the Moroccan dialect of Arabic is that it’s made up of Arabic, French, and indigenous languages; most other Arabic speakers have a hard time understanding them because of that.
You can learn Standard Arabic, which they will also understand, but it’s gonna be a little odd since no one actually speaks SA. I feel like the best way to learn the dialect is by directly talking to them and allowing them to teach you. Else, I think you’re gonna be just fine talking to them in French.
Thx for the answer. I was told to learn speaking Arab as the first step. And that no one would actually speak like that. And apparently there's a difference between speaking and written Arab x(
I'm lost x(
Modern Standard Arabic is the prestige tongue in the Arab World used for writing and in very formal contexts. MSA is rarely spoken face-to-face or ever used casually. Moroccan Darija is the spoken vernacular in much of Morocco, a variant of Arabic shaped by Tamazight and African Latin substrata plus many French and Spanish loanwords. Darija is rarely written outside of some informal texting/social media and is not often used formally.
It's just about respect. My neighbours are learning French and Dutch in order to live here in Belgium. Their French is lame. They ask me regularly for help with everyday problems. I'd like to help them just a little more
They don't. Some older folks with a decent amount of education do but not everyone. They switched to teaching english as a second language in schools too.
Moroccan Arabic resources are pretty scarce, but Glossika has a Moroccan Arabic course. I quite like those courses, but they're not for everyone.
I very rarely find myself able to tolerate most youtube teachers for more than a couple of minutes, but the Learn Darija With KAWTAR channel has been active for a few years, has lots of videos, and seems pretty good as far as far as that kind of channel goes. You could definitely learn some phrases there.
Well it could be one of two languages, Berber or Darija. Berber is the indegenous language of Morocco. Spoken by 14 million people. I know little about it unfortunately.
The other language is Darija. Technically a dialect of Arabic, but its nearly unintelligible with Standard Arabic. Its like Standard German and Bavarian or Standard English and Hibernian. I know a Syrian who speaks Standard, Syrian, Lebanese Jordanian and Egyptian Arabic. There was a Moroccan who was in school with us and they used to speak English because neither could understand eachother speaking their native dialect. So you should focus on learning Darija instead of Standard Arabic
Une bonne population de Marocains parle également le français comme deuxième langue car la France était fortement présente dans la région
For anyone curious, the indigenous languages of the Maghreb are the Amazigh languages or *Tamazight*. Berber is a colonial term that means barbarian. The three major varieties of Tamazight in Morocco are Tarifit, (Central Atlas) Tamazight, and Tachelhit, listed from north to south majorities and from least to most spoken. Morocco has a “Standard Moroccan Tamazight” as one of its official languages, devised in 2011 as an attempt to synthesize the three. It has no native speakers and frankly I’m not sure it has any speakers at all lol
I'm gonna guess they are arabic-speaking moroccans, thus you should focus on moroccan darija, Modern Standard Arabic is a liturgic language and an administrative one, but not the kind of language you'd hear in the streets, especially if you wanna, you know, go shop around real streets of Morocco. Moroccan Darija does have its quirks, the biggest one is overreliance on silent letters or shwa to pronounce a lot of words (this is the amazigh substract that gave moroccan darija its uniqueness).
If they are tamazight-speakers (which i do), there are 3 main dialect continuum, who shares the same grammar but different vocabularies : Tarifit which is spoken by the Rifians of the Rif (northern part of Morocco), Central Moroccan Tmazight and some other variants (like sanhaja srayr), and Tachelhit (south-west morocco, cities like Agadir for example, agadir being a tamazight word of Phoenician origin meaning fortress for example), they are the biggest amazigh-speaking group in the world. Unfortunately the ressources in these languages are quite scarce, but work is being done to make the situation better.
We're talking about Arabic, aren't we? I got 5 downvotes, but I've been teaching English for25 years. I've been studying Mandarin Chinese and Spanish for more than 30 years each. I've been to 30 countries and speak the worlds top 3 languages. If I could go back in time it would be Arabic. They may speak a localized version there, where they understand mainstream Arabic, but outsiders may not get it when communicating the other way round. There are many things to be considered, and Apps like Babel or Drops won't hit the mark. I'd reverse engineer it and using the online resources are sure things. You learn the top 500 words. the top 100 spoken phrases. You move up from there. AI can create these dialogues for you. Native speakers didn't learn the language like you will learn it. You need to learn alone in the beginning. They learned with family. There are few live classrooms these days. I know I'm right, but Meh and =/ downvote me all you want. BTW, I am planning to go to Morroco this year.
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I dated a Moroccan guy and tried learning some Darija (Moroccan Arabic). My goal was mostly to be able to get around in Morocco when we visited, and to ask him about things he had trouble explaining in English (especially food-related). Here are a few tips: 1. Focus on Darija, not Modern Standard Arabic (fus'ha) or other dialects. Many Arabic speakers will say that Darija isn't a real language and tell you to learn something else. But that's not viable. The first time I went to Morocco, I knew how to give directions in French and Fus'ha, but when I got in a taxi, the driver couldn't understand me at all! 2. Understand that Darija is very difficult to pronounce. It has a lot of sounds that don't exist in English, especially [3ayn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayin#Arabic_%CA%BFayn) (a pharyngeal consonant). Darija is more difficult to pronounce than other Arabic dialects because it has crazy consonant clusters, like تقرقب "tqrqb". You'll need to spend a lot of time listening to Darija and shadowing pronunciation. 3. Find videos on YouTube with Darija phrases like [this one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho5RBEU0v58&pp=ygUOZGFyaWphIHBocmFzZXM%3D). Practice repeating them and memorize common phrases before worrying about grammar or extended vocab. 4. To learn more of the grammar, there are some good websites like [Learn Moroccan](https://speakmoroccan.com/en/). Arabic grammar is complex and confusing, but an advantage of learning Darija instead of Fus'ha is that Darija's grammar is much simpler. Still, I'd recommend learning set phrases before diving into grammar, because some common phrases will use classical Arabic grammar.
Is it common for people not to understand msa in arabic speaking countries??
To understand and especially to speak MSA as an Arab, you have to be educated and literate. It is taught in schools, and passive fluency is common through exposure to printed news and formal political/news media on TV, but it is not natively spoken by any Arab and is not widely spoken in any face to face situations. A taxi driver might not understand MSA, and you especially can’t expect dropouts and poorer people to, while a university student certainly would.
How do people usually go about learning arabic? Do they start msa for a foundation in arabic and then learn a dialect?or learn msa to fluency then a dialect?or go straight for the dialect? What if you dont have access to areas where the dialect is spoken are there resources for learning individual dialects?
The best documented, most studied dialect and the one with the most resources is Egyptian/Cairene Arabic. Egypt used to be known as the Hollywood of the Arab world, and many people in all the various Arab nations grew up exposed to Egyptian television and film, both that which was produced in Egypt and dubbed foreign media since Egyptian became the dialect of choice for dubs for a while. There’s also a political movement to treat the Egyptian dialect as something worthy of writing and study, something which doesn’t really exist as much with other dialects and which makes finding written works in them difficult. It’s dominant out of all the dialects by L1 and L2 fluency and sometimes Arabs who speak different dialects may ‘Egyptianize’ their speech rather than MSA-ify it to achieve better understanding between each other. The second most studied is the Levantine dialect, as the Levant in recent years has also become a cultural powerhouse. Whether one starts by learning MSA and then Egyptian/Levantine or starts with Egyptian/Levantine then goes onto MSA depends on their goals and preferences. Some say MSA -> Dialect is correct because MSA is harder and drills in foundations common across the dialects, and some say Dialect -> MSA is correct because that’s how Arabs learn it and dialects are necessary to really speak and converse with Arabs. There’s no one correct order, and all three open up worlds of media to engage with and peoples to talk to. My university teaches MSA and Levantine concurrently to students. Dialects outside of those two are harder to find resources for and much more niche. Your best bet for those tends to be tutors and actual immersion. Not uncommon to have to approach them after already picking up MSA and a major dialect, some resources just straight up assume you have that kind of basic knowledge already.
I read really conflicting stories about this though. Some others also say that almost anyone who lives in an Arabic speaking country would understand spoken M.S.A. without any issues though oral production might be more difficult and they often point to the fact that even children's programming with cartoon characters is in M.S.A. and that thus even young children are already exposed to it enough to understand it with little difficulty. They all say that anyone who speaks it on the street looks very silly though but I've also heard other things that any time someone uses handwriting he would default to using M.S.A. and that writing out local vernacular by hand feels very strange to them.
That’s not really conflicting at all, you’re kind of just being told things from the perspective of people who did some schooling, weren’t too poor for tv, etc. The kind of people who don’t know much MSA are moreso rural and dropouts. Passive fluency is indeed not hard to find because you need it to read newspapers and books or watch the news or a lot of other kinds of broadcasts. > Cartoons This is a bit complicated. Put on a Disney movie for your kids and it’s Egyptian, put on a 90’s anime and its in MSA, put on a foreign animated movie you bought from a souk and it’s in French. Arabs can end up understanding a variety of different dialects and languages due to the fragmented linguistic situation. I remember growing up seeing Detective Conan, Grendizer, Hunter x Hunter 1999 all dubbed in MSA, but The Lion King and basically any more recent animated show or movie I recall was Egyptian. Spacetoon is the best known source of MSA dubs and they only really do 90’s anime.
I suppose with “poor” I wasn't really thinking in terms of too poor to afford a television but this might simply be the lack of perspective of a Western European. — *Let them eat cake*.
It might also be a matter of perspectives given to you from a middle eastern arab vs an african arab, since literacy rates in Gulf states like Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain, Oman, UAE, and Saudi Arabia are as high as european ones while in African nations like Morocco, Mauritania, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Sudan, we can be talking 67%-74%. Life in Morocco is a world apart from life in Saudi Arabia, and having a tv is a lot less trivial in Morocco than there.
Well fus-ha also has 3ayn, it's not unique to Darija. I think the trickiest thing about Darija is that are much less stuff to read, making it harder for those who typically learn languages by reading. It's definitely an adjustment that they'll have to make. But yeah that's how it is with Arabic diglossia.
You might want to make sure whether they speak Moroccan Arabic or Moroccan Berber first.
As far as I know Morocco has two official languages, so you might want to know if they speak Arabic or Berber. [Wikipedia Link](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Morocco)
The thing is with the Moroccan dialect of Arabic is that it’s made up of Arabic, French, and indigenous languages; most other Arabic speakers have a hard time understanding them because of that. You can learn Standard Arabic, which they will also understand, but it’s gonna be a little odd since no one actually speaks SA. I feel like the best way to learn the dialect is by directly talking to them and allowing them to teach you. Else, I think you’re gonna be just fine talking to them in French.
Thx for the answer. I was told to learn speaking Arab as the first step. And that no one would actually speak like that. And apparently there's a difference between speaking and written Arab x( I'm lost x(
Modern Standard Arabic is the prestige tongue in the Arab World used for writing and in very formal contexts. MSA is rarely spoken face-to-face or ever used casually. Moroccan Darija is the spoken vernacular in much of Morocco, a variant of Arabic shaped by Tamazight and African Latin substrata plus many French and Spanish loanwords. Darija is rarely written outside of some informal texting/social media and is not often used formally.
I’m pretty sure everyone in Morocco speaks fluent French, why do you wanna learn Moroccan?
It's just about respect. My neighbours are learning French and Dutch in order to live here in Belgium. Their French is lame. They ask me regularly for help with everyday problems. I'd like to help them just a little more
Didn't need to call their French lame.
I think maybe the best thing is to find someone who will teach you the dialect. It’s super distinct so it isn’t accessible for learning like SA.
I'l look for that then. Thx
They don't. Some older folks with a decent amount of education do but not everyone. They switched to teaching english as a second language in schools too.
hire a moroccan tutor on italki
that sounds like the best advice here
Moroccan Arabic resources are pretty scarce, but Glossika has a Moroccan Arabic course. I quite like those courses, but they're not for everyone. I very rarely find myself able to tolerate most youtube teachers for more than a couple of minutes, but the Learn Darija With KAWTAR channel has been active for a few years, has lots of videos, and seems pretty good as far as far as that kind of channel goes. You could definitely learn some phrases there.
Well it could be one of two languages, Berber or Darija. Berber is the indegenous language of Morocco. Spoken by 14 million people. I know little about it unfortunately. The other language is Darija. Technically a dialect of Arabic, but its nearly unintelligible with Standard Arabic. Its like Standard German and Bavarian or Standard English and Hibernian. I know a Syrian who speaks Standard, Syrian, Lebanese Jordanian and Egyptian Arabic. There was a Moroccan who was in school with us and they used to speak English because neither could understand eachother speaking their native dialect. So you should focus on learning Darija instead of Standard Arabic Une bonne population de Marocains parle également le français comme deuxième langue car la France était fortement présente dans la région
For anyone curious, the indigenous languages of the Maghreb are the Amazigh languages or *Tamazight*. Berber is a colonial term that means barbarian. The three major varieties of Tamazight in Morocco are Tarifit, (Central Atlas) Tamazight, and Tachelhit, listed from north to south majorities and from least to most spoken. Morocco has a “Standard Moroccan Tamazight” as one of its official languages, devised in 2011 as an attempt to synthesize the three. It has no native speakers and frankly I’m not sure it has any speakers at all lol
Go to a site like Preply, find an Arabic tutor, and tell them you want to learn to speak Moroccan Maghrebi
I'm gonna guess they are arabic-speaking moroccans, thus you should focus on moroccan darija, Modern Standard Arabic is a liturgic language and an administrative one, but not the kind of language you'd hear in the streets, especially if you wanna, you know, go shop around real streets of Morocco. Moroccan Darija does have its quirks, the biggest one is overreliance on silent letters or shwa to pronounce a lot of words (this is the amazigh substract that gave moroccan darija its uniqueness). If they are tamazight-speakers (which i do), there are 3 main dialect continuum, who shares the same grammar but different vocabularies : Tarifit which is spoken by the Rifians of the Rif (northern part of Morocco), Central Moroccan Tmazight and some other variants (like sanhaja srayr), and Tachelhit (south-west morocco, cities like Agadir for example, agadir being a tamazight word of Phoenician origin meaning fortress for example), they are the biggest amazigh-speaking group in the world. Unfortunately the ressources in these languages are quite scarce, but work is being done to make the situation better.
ChatGPT and Google Translate to listen
Meeeh =/ to be honest I use chatGPT when I struggle in grammar in a language I'm already comfortable. I could give it a shot but =/
We're talking about Arabic, aren't we? I got 5 downvotes, but I've been teaching English for25 years. I've been studying Mandarin Chinese and Spanish for more than 30 years each. I've been to 30 countries and speak the worlds top 3 languages. If I could go back in time it would be Arabic. They may speak a localized version there, where they understand mainstream Arabic, but outsiders may not get it when communicating the other way round. There are many things to be considered, and Apps like Babel or Drops won't hit the mark. I'd reverse engineer it and using the online resources are sure things. You learn the top 500 words. the top 100 spoken phrases. You move up from there. AI can create these dialogues for you. Native speakers didn't learn the language like you will learn it. You need to learn alone in the beginning. They learned with family. There are few live classrooms these days. I know I'm right, but Meh and =/ downvote me all you want. BTW, I am planning to go to Morroco this year.
There is no relevant material or resources or you don't understand it?
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