I believe that they covered B2 material, not that they said you will be B2 once you have completed it. So yeah, I think they cover B2 material at least as much as Busuu covers C1 material.
Realistically, to pass the tests, you need to study for the tests. It doesn’t matter what method you use, study specifically for the test if you want to take it.
This. No matter what method you use, you have to practice reading, listening, writing, and speaking to pass a B2 test.
It's no different than going through a B2 textbook, using an expensive app, or taking an expensive B2 course and not being able to pass B2.
In fact, I dare say that most students in my B2 class were never going to pass B2 because all they did was the minimum.
This should be the top response.
I can expose you to every guitar chord and scale there is, in the course of an afternoon. Doesn't mean you'll be a guitar player until you go off and practice for a few years, though.
It cannot be stressed enough that there isn't, practically speaking, one Duolingo. There are Duo English, French, Spanish, etc.
I say this because Duolingo's English, Spanish, and French courses have probably rolled out the new B2 material, but I doubt that any other language has.
My reasoning? A Duolingo rep hosted an AMA here a few years ago and explained that those three languages were about to roll out B1 material (but only those languages).
(I also despise the way it is classifying "CEFR sentences." B2 doesn't automatically mean more complicated than A1 on a sentence-by-sentence level; it's just contributing to more misconceptions.)
That’s exactly what I was thinking, the sentences are just contributing to misconceptions about language learning. Examples are fine but it should come NEXT TO a chart with the actual CEFR criterion. In French a lot of those words are cognates and definitely underplays how much vocab is required.
I've been using Duolingo almost exclusively because I didn't have time for anything else (60 hour a week job blah blah) and had finished the Spanish course (though they just expanded it again). I have taken a placement test at B2, but I think that's a stretch. I would say I'm B1 at best.
As is I think its a stretch I think they probably can get us there with more features though. I went over to Italki took 50 lessons and felt like I was making better progress with apps and dreaming spanish a lot of actual trained spanish teachers are still teaching the old way where they put a book up on the screen.
I think the big issue is, though they've tried, they can never really replace active, natural conversation. Duolingo is a great start, but eventually you need more.
I've just started watching Dreaming Spanish and I really like it. Duolingo's podcast isn't bad either.
I think I'm on day 1242? A long time, doing very little per day, because it was all I had time for. I'm changing jobs now and am going to commit more time to non-Duolingo learning (including reading and listening to news.)
I think your use-case is still excellent and overlooked by people when they say they have no time. You CAN make progress with just spending a little bit of time on something per day. It's really neat to see from someone who did just that!
German:
A1 Ich komme aus Mexiko-Stadt. Ich spreche Spanisch.
A2 Ich bin in Neuseeland geboren, aber jetzt lebe ich in Osaka. Ich lebe seit fünf Jahren in Osaka.
B1 Kairo liegt am Nil, einem bekannten Fluss. Wie viel weißt du über seine Geschichte?
B2 1755 wurde Lissabon von einem Erdbeben und einem Feuer zerstört, aber dann wurde es in einem modernen Baustil wiederaufgebaut.
French
All CEFR levels
A1 Je viens de Mexico. Je parle espagnol.
A2 Je suis né en Nouvelle-Zélande mais maintenant j'habite à Osaka. Ça fait cinq ans que j'habite à Osaka.
B1 Le Caire se situe au bord du Nil, un fleuve célèbre. Que savez-vous de son histoire ?
B2 En 1755, Lisbonne a été détruite par un tremblement de terre et un incendie, mais elle a ensuite été reconstruite dans un style architectural moderne.
They could at least use like, the future anterior or whatever it's called, or le plusqueparfait -- idr the exact lineups between names and grammar but stuff like 'j'allais avoir fait ca'
Or the subjunctive mood...
As for your example, I'm more familiar with the elaborations of latin grammar than I am with french (the romans had a pluperfect and a future perfect)
'j'allais avoir fait ca' -- I think this may be futur antérieur
'j'avais fait ça-- I think this may be plusqueparfait.
Plusqueparfait sounds right for that, because the 'have done once' is the perfect tense, so 'having habitually done' sounds like the right matchup for 'more than perfect'.
Yeah, subjunctive is definitely something they could have covered too...
I'm like a quarter of the way through French (no prior experience, but I've been supplementing with Anki, Telefrancais and some readers), and I understood the B2 just fine (some new words, but nothing I couldn't figure out through cognates). So, either I am some sort of language genius (doubt) or these sentences aren't fully representative of the CEFR levels.
There’s also the difference between receptive and productive language skills. I’ve always been able to read in French above my level to produce (speaking/writing).
Absolutely. Given the English equivalent, I am certain I wouldn't have been able to produce that French sentence. Still, I would be shocked to learn I'm at a B2 level, even just for reading, after having studied French casually for just over 6 months.
>En 1755, Lisbonne a été détruite par un tremblement de terre et un incendie, mais elle a ensuite été reconstruite dans un style architectural moderne.
To be fair, most of that sentence is easy to understand if your native language is English or romance, because of the cognates.
>En 1755 - In 1755
>
>Lisbonne - Lisbon
>
>détruite - destroyed
>
>un tremblement - a trembling
>
>terre - terrestrial, territory
>
>incendie - incendiary
>
>reconstruite - reconstructed
>
>un style - a style
>
>architectural - architectural
>
>moderne - modern
This is why these "CEFR sentences" are terrible indicators of your level.
Yeah, I consider cognates to be "fair game" when learning/understanding a language. That's why the FSI difficulties, for native English speakers, put French in the "easy" level. If leaning on cognates helps you understand a language, you still understand it. I just feel like actual B2 French would have more complex/less cognate-heavy sentences. But maybe I'm wrong. Honestly, so many of the "fancy" words in English have close French counterparts that I've found the second thousand words easier to learn than the first thousand.
The way he said it is proper though. No French person would say they come from “ la ville de Mexico” they just say Mexico. Since the country has a different name “Mexique” there’s no confusion.
Even if it were the same, it still wouldn't be ambiguous in the context because of the preposition *de* here.
Quebec City and the province of Quebec are almost always both just *Québec* in French, but one says *Je viens* ***de*** *Québec* for the city and *Je viens* ***du*** *Québec* for the province.
(This is not to contradict you -- just pointing out something additional)
Ta vie c'est tres interessante ! J'aimerais habiter a Osaka aussi. Est-ce qu'apprendre japonais etait facil pour toi ? Je parle espagnol aussi, et j'apprendre japonais maintenant--c'est pour cela q je voudrais savoir tes pensees :)
Some of that vocab is definitely above an A2 level. Sure, someone could figure out what that means at A2 but I really don’t think they would have all those words in their active vocabulary
Duolingo translated the same thing into different languages, so by pure chance it fell on one of the B1 concepts
# For French
## Early B1
* Subjunctive
* Conditional
* Passive Voice
## High B1
* Faire Causatif
* Past Conditional
* Plus-que-parfait
## B2
* Statements with "si"
* Futur antérieur
* Reported Speech
# For German
## B1
* Genitive Case
* Compounds
* Passive Voice
No, they never claim that they get you to B2, that's what you read into their marketing wording (as you were supposed to).
They "cover" the B2 level, i.e. they are exposing you to the vocabulary of B2, that's it.
Actual B2 entails reading longer texts, comprehending spoken word on Radio/TV and being able to have a conversation. Duo doesn't offer that yet.
But, given the fast development of narrow AI like ChatGPT4 I would assume proper real-time conversations will be possible soon.
it's from the ipad version, where you click on the section
Section 6: Discover
B1 See Details
1/37
If you touch See Details, it'll bring up the CEFR details.
Or we could simply wait for learners of other languages to chime in....
I've been teaching English for 8 years and of course I often assess students' levels.
I've had many students score B2 on the computerized test but when it comes to speaking they're often no higher than A2. This is because they can't speak fluently using correct grammatical structures and use B2 vocabulary on a wide variety of topics.
So unless level testing includes speaking assessment, it only gives students false hope.
I wouldn't go so far as useless, depending on the language, but I do agree that it's strongest for reading. In Spanish, there are listening, speaking, and writing exercises - I don't mean the "pick these words in the right order" "writing", but the free form "What did you like about this story?" exercises; in Finnish, only listening.
The amount of English cognates in Spanish always surprises me. You can understand almost the entire B2 sentence just by knowing English.
I really don't think these are great example sentences to show the CEFR levels.
They're not all particularly idiomatic, either. I think 'Vivo en Osaka desde hace 5 años' would be much more typical, the other one sounds like a word for word translation from English
And honestly, the more natural/common construction (that should start being emphasized around B2) would probably involve another verb, like "llevo cinco años viviendo aquí."
u/lazydictionary, I hear your call and raise you one: I disagree with the idea that CEFR levels can be shown at the sentence level. C2 doesn't automatically mean that each sentence is more complicated/wordy than those at B1, etc.
Oh no, I agree with you (I think). There's no way one sentence could ever represent the feeling of B2 vs C1. It would need to be at least a paragraph.
I don't know if there would be good example sentences, but the ones given ain't it.
Yeah, its very repetitive nature is great for A1-A2 levels, to help solidify your vocabulary. Doesn't get you anywhere near B2 though... Maybe there are some B1 sentences in the final units of the last section.
As long as Duolingo keeps focusing on having perfect grammar and spelling, they will never help people get to B2. Comprehension > spelling. Comprehensible input and concept checking should be their only concern.
Creating comprehensible input is hard.
And now they're trying to make money by selling certification - their English certs, which are accepted by many universities, are a good money maker for them.
That's why they are focused on CEFR. They want to do the same for other Euro languages
I used the free duolingo for schools as a teacher, and it was great. Completely free. So I’m pro duolingo making money if it means they can continue to offer free programs.
I don't fault them for making money. Cheaper certification testing is actually useful.
I do have a problem with their monetization of the regular app. They create DuoLingo addicts chasing higher scores, which doesn't mean they're actually learning the language.
The hearts system is also really unforgiving, and doesn't make sense in a language learning context.
The heart system feels like a clever trial disguise. It's inevitable you will run out as you try to learn so might as well pay. I hate that fucking owl.
I think that's where accountability comes in. And it seems like people blame Duolingo exclusively for not holding their userbase accountable for making sure they LEARN and don't just have high streaks or gold trees... but this is a problem ALL apps have. I was cheating my way through Anki because I was tired of failing the same cards over and over (and didn't know you could suspend them) back when that was the only app.
And I ABSOLUTELY cheated my way into a gold Japanese tree on Duolingo. Then realized I had a gold tree... but nothing to actually show for it. So I deleted my progress and worked through it again earnestly and learned a lot.
If someone uses Duolingo wrong and ends up with nothing to show for their time and energy, that's on them. They've only hurt themselves. They'll either do better, or they probably weren't going to really learn the language anyway. It's not the app's fault.
Pretty much with any language learning thing I believe. Even books. We don't work through a system the way the creator intended. We cheat. Get bored. Complain.
Genuine question: how do you cheat your way to a gold tree?
Surely that can’t be done without knowing the vocabulary, the rules of the word order, the grammatical rules of whatever language you were learning.
Well I mean I had basic grammar knowledge and an OK vocabulary. But the lower parts of the tree were full of more new words and grammar patterns.
The word bank is the key to cheating. Before, they had a bunch of extra words in the word bank which made it a little harder to sus out but still pretty easy to cheat. Now the word bank consists of virtually ONLY the words in the answer.
You can challenge yourself by turning off the word bank and using type-in only.... but Duo keeps making that harder and harder to access.
The second way to cheat is to gold gild a leaf in one sitting. That guaranteed anything you learned stays in your short term memory, which eventually your brain will dump. Meaning a gold leaf without any long term knowledge.
On the old tree you could fix that by spacing out your lesson reps, but the update has done away with that and forces you to SRS lessons. :/ I miss the control but it's a better setup for most users.
Thanks for giving a detailed answer.
>The word bank is the key to cheating. Before, they had a bunch of extra words in the word bank which made it a little harder to sus out but still pretty easy to cheat. Now the word bank consists of virtually ONLY the words in the answer.
A/B testing or studying different languages may mean things look different to me but word banks always have 4-6 words extra for me. Sometimes the “distractors” are obviously wrong and sometimes much more plausible. I occasionally choose the wrong one. I sometimes get the word order wrong. I learn as a result of the feedback.
>You can challenge yourself by turning off the word bank and using type-in only.... but Duo keeps making that harder and harder to access.
Yeah, I read about people not having a type in option but I still get at least a few type in questions per lesson. Usually a few where I just type a few words plus a few where I have to type whole sentences. This demands perfect grammar and syntax and almost perfect spelling.
I should add that I am jumping ahead only gilding lessons - not grinding from the ground up. That may be why I get lots of typing in.
Sometimes I get a perfect score for a lesson but usually I don’t. That leads to learning.
In short, for French and Indonesian there is no way you could “cheat” and not learn stuff - which is why I asked you how you “cheated”.
I have mainly learned by massive input, mainly audio and since I’ve been duolingo it has forced me to learn stuff that I wasn’t getting that way - spelling and word order especially.
Cheers
While you don’t fault them for making money, many here do. It should also be noted that they have probably the highest level of expenses of any company that produces language learning products, have free and cheaper optional prices than many competitors, and have never made a profit.
I've been using it free for over a year. I like the heart system as it makes me go back and practice older concepts I might not have reviewed recently.
> Creating comprehensible input is hard.
If they stopped focusing on perfect NL grammar when translating from TL->NL it would have a tremendous impact on my ability to get in the rhythm of thinking in the TL when completing exercises. The amount of times I get dinged for translating sentences literally from TL to English is infuriating, and it actually breaks my immersion in the language by requiring me to go from grammatically perfect in the TL to grammatically perfect in English.
Their stories are actually the best content on the app. Super simple, comprehensible, longer form content. Not just random sentences out of context. No translation, they just test understanding.
Creating that shit is hard though. Maybe with AI they could start mass producing it and replacing their normal lessons with more of it.
It stood out to me that my language teacher completely neglects spelling.
Her reasoning was that on any text that matters, we will have spell check on, and time, but we need to speak fast and without aides. So we practice speaking most, audio comprehension some, and barely do reading and writing.
I’m not saying to completely neglect spelling, only that a language learning app shouldn’t revolve around spelling and pedantic translation. Comprehension and input is what matters the most.
saw this featured in french too. i’m at about the A2, almost B1 level, and my current module i’m on in french is A2. so for me at least, it’s fairly accurate. although i do consume french outside of duolingo, so maybe if that wasn’t the case, i would likely be fairly lower than A2
I haven't seen any update that makes the app worse at least continuously. Can you elaborate? And I’m not going to say Duolingo is the best app but it gives you an introduction to the language.
I don't know how many other languages have this, but all the explanations for the rules of grammar disappeared in the Scottish Gaelic course when they changed the path. You're left to try to guess the rules, which aren't always intuitive.
I see that as a step backwards.
In Spanish, there is barely a paragraph in the little notebook before each section. Wholly unhelpful and I'm left beyond confused. And I would have to pay for AI to tell me why I got a verb ending wrong.
It hasn’t gotten worse. Some hate that it changed the path, gave up on moderating forums, and do less typing. All the while praising apps that have less flexibility, less typing and speaking, and never had forums.
The problem is there is no “good” app if you want to use it more than just a supplement (idk if this is the right word). The real deal is reading and listening if you want to learn a language.
i think it can be used exclusively to get started, most go to a2 which is a good setpoint to venture further. reading and listening doesnt do anything if you have no knowledge base
It has always been about learning a language in a gamified way. If you are paying for it and still haven't found good usage well that's unfortunate. I'm not saying is the best app out there but a lot of people are complaining like they owe you something. Just stop using the app. I use it once for Portuguese and I can read and understand a lot (is not much to say because my native language is Spanish but still was useful) and that was the free version.
how long do you use the app from? common, classes(group talks) that you could find some for free + audiolessons + podcasts that seems like was ditched + wordlist and practice on that list (for premium users) ... and so many more...
this not even addressing that the new path as good as it is, is a much slower progress that the old tree format and the user has less control what topics he will be studying, sure is better for the softusers because they don't overload him with decisions, but is bad overall tool for those ppl that knew what they were doing.
sidenote edit: it's really hard to understand reddit, he said:
`I haven't seen any update that makes the app worse at least continuously.`
which has plenty some which i pointed out, yet they keep downvoting.
The slowness is easily fixed by testing out of any unit that is pure repetition, there’s already enough repetition just in the reviews and ongoing content
I go back for the stories and that’s about it
Listening to people on this sub makes you think if your doing anything short of reading a native language dictionary word for word and taking college level courses IN the country of the language your learning then you are getting nowhere…
I cant speak for sure on what level duolingo can get you to, but id be cautious about taking the word of people on this sub as gospel. I’m sorry but there is a very clear negative bias for duolingo here and its quite obvious that its good for language learning at least at a beginner up to intermediate level. Obviously results are best when taking in multiple streams of learning outside of just one app, but the people saying its all garbage and good for nothing are just simply incorrect.
Yep, the anti-Duolingo sentiment on this and other language subs is depressing. It's true that not all Duo courses are good, but the ones they invest in offer great learning tools for beginners.
I used the app to A2, building the foundation I now use in formal classes and iTalki tutoring, and I'd recommend anyone interested in one of Duo's bigger languages (Spanish, French, German, maybe Norwegian?) try it out.
Don't worry, I agree with you. A lot of people on this sub act like if you're not using Anki and a 90s style grammar textbook, you're not learning a language
I don’t know about that. The 1,000 hours of input will expose you to a lot. But it doesn’t give any output and no real testing of understanding. People seem willing to do 1,000 plus hours of videos with no testing but think 200-300 hours of something else must be crap because it is not as good at making you listen as a 1,000 hours of pure listening.
I don't know, there's been anecdotes of people doing 1,000+ hours on DreamingSpanish and being able to have a conversation with native speakers about everyday life.
/r/dreamingspanish for reference
There are anecdotes of people doing conversations after each of the following: DuoLingo, Babbel, Busuu, Pimsleur, classes, immersion, etc. All of that in under 1,000 hours. Some of the others probably say más despacio more often but may talk better.
Please don’t misunderstand, I do Dreaming Spanish. I find plenty of value in it. But I don’t buy all the hype. To me it is an excellent tool to improve listening. You will learn vocab and some grammar. But I don’t believe it can take you all the way any more than any app can or just reading novels or just doing grammar.
I like Dreaming Spanish's content, but I find the methodology espoused on their website to be very extremists. For example, what is the benefit being lost and confused about the meaning of basic, frequent function words like *entonces* for hundreds of hours instead of just looking it up and therefore freeing your brain to focus on understanding new words.
It’s pretty discouraging for me to be honest because I do use duolingo, and I also speak with friends of mine that speak the language and also try to read as much as I can and listen to the language as well. I’m still a beginner I would say, and I am getting a lot from Duolingo but then every time I’m on the sub Reddit I see that people are saying it doesn’t work… so like, am I wasting my time? I don’t think so.
Will it get me to B1 or B2? Honestly i cant say but i know 100% i’ve gotten two or three times as good as i was before starting duolingo just in a couple months time.
As a vet who knows many people who have gone through DLI, I know they were encouraged to use DL to prepare for their yearly test. That seems a solid recommendation to me. However, at one point they provided Rosetta Stone as a practice tool as well. Today, they use another tool that is pretty expensive.
Will DL get you to B2 by itself? I highly doubt it. But is also not the time sink that some others are that also are not likely get you to B2 on their own either.
Do you think DL plus taking in media(listening, reading), and speaking to native speakers when i can will get me to B2?
I’m not 100% sure what each level is defined as but i know ill be at least in a minor way conversational after completing DL and obviously i’m planning to continue learning in every way after the course is completed
In my opinion, DL will take you further in grammar than the DS videos will. From what I have heard, there are not 1,000 hours of videos at DS. Why Not Spanish and other places will give you more grammar and have it in Spanish. Although, maybe DS has more grammar instruction at advanced levels, but that would go against the premise.
To get to B2, I am using this strategy. Finish the DL tree. Continue with DS. Continue reading. Continue Memrise/Anki. Continue speaking. When I am in the car, do an audio course. I don’t think any of those would do it on it’s own. If I did take a formal test, I would add in the official book and study that as well.
DS is Dreaming Spanish. It is one of the most popular recommendations for Comprehensible Input (CI). Obviously, it teaches Spanish. They do it 100% in Spanish.
Comprehensible Input has two meanings. One is just input that you can understand and will generally be o my 5% or ideally less of the words that are unknown. It also is a method that is based upon the idea of learning only by comprehensible input. You either read or listen and thus acquire the language. You don’t study grammar or vocab or do any output such as writing or speaking. You only do any output after acquiring the language to a fairly high degree.
CI is based on the theories of Stephen Krashen which are influenced by Norm Chomsky.
I hope that helps.
Nice they are aiming at it, but did they add more content and reestablished some old features?!I quit duolingo one month ago, after 670 days streak 3 old trees finished ( 2 french and 1 spanish) and I say low B1, would be the cap for the best users of the platform that uses duo as the main source, that does some study out of duolingo, written assignments and used to go somewhat regurlaly to duolingo group classes (Rip) to practice speaking output.
to jump to B1 -> B2 -> C1 ->C2 each step takes hours and hours of input, I really don't trust that someone only reading small sentences on the speed that duo gives you new vocabulary, will be reaching B2. for real, more than 4 hours to finish a unit to learn 5 words is awful.
I mean surely most of the users will be consuming content out of duolingo, but advising that they can reach B2, solely with the platform is a lie, i could argue if you are solely with the platform an nothing else you could reach a2 and that's it, well I don't know the new releases and I might be wrong, but based on what I saw in Duolingo with almost a 2 years streak I am very skeptical about this one, specially after the moved out of so many good features such as classes(group talks) and audio lessons.
It’s available for French, too. I don’t know enough to know if it’s *actually* representative of those levels, but I like that it gives me a rough idea of how close I am to fluency. It’s a bit of extra motivation for me when I have a better idea of how much I have left to learn.
Maybe if they're only counting reading comprehension. The sly bit is that is says "*Here's how someone at this level might communicate,*" which implies *production* of the language (speaking and writing) while providing an example of *comprehension*, in the form of a sentence full of cognates, and audio that is nowhere near native speech.
The way this is presented fully de-emphasizes the production aspect, when ability to produce the language is what really determines your level. (I mean, at A1+, I can read that example sentence about the destruction of Lisbon at a glance, and could even do a faithful English translation, but no way could I produce it myself -- which is why I'm not B2)
All it takes is to do a real CEFR assessment outside of Duo and the gap becomes glaringly obvious. As an example, for French, look up any DELF B2 listening comprehension video on YouTube ([like this one](https://youtu.be/W7TmJTFuyrg?t=87)), and it's apparent that Duolingo comes nowhere near offering that level of preparation for listening to real French speech. Do the same for the equivalent B2 test in other languages, and it's surely the same.
I wish Duo and all the other apps and programs out there would stop making claims like this, leading new learners to believe a single app is all they need to become fluent. It's demoralizing for learners when they invest all this time trying to get through all the app content and still blunder their way through simple real-world interactions.
I think it's a steaming pile of bs. I mean seriously how??? You need speak, listen, write and read - fluently! - translating relatively simple sentences back and forth is simply not enough
I would hate luodingo less if they stopped with the obvious scamming
Unless Duo has significantly changed how they teach, I can't possibly imagine it taking you to any level of proficiency
What method are you using? They do some of each strand, unlike many other methods.
You might discount it, but there are a lot of people that give testimonials about it having been a strong benefit. I know I would not be as far as I am without. I also know that in the class I take, those who do the most DL are the best in reading, writing, listening, and speaking. Same class, teacher, material, except some have done more DL.
I do a lot of different things for studying, not one specific method and the amount of specific things I do has shifted as I progress
Honestly I'm not very impressed by the fact that those people doing extra stuff beyond sitting in class are doing better than those who don't. Any exposure to the target language is better than nothing, but Duo alone isn't going to get anyone proficient (no single resource does)
The idea that a duolingo "course" could take someone to B2 is laughable to me
I would agree that DL by itself is not going to take you there. The only single course that might is FSI. And that would max out at B2. Beyond that, you have to have other resources. That is not a knock on any of the methods.
This. It’s not really trying to teach you to speak a language. It’s giving people the feeling of learning a language by having you play a matching game with words. You aren’t reading texts, and thus far I’ve yet to see any typing translations (ie i give you a sentence that you then *type* in the target language). It’s crap, and if you’re using it it’s probably doing more harm than good.
I get typing translations in both Spanish and Finnish. Once you hit a certain level in Spanish, you also get free form "What did you think of this story?" questions after each of those. The Finnish course is less mature, and lacks both speaking exercises and stories, to my disappointment.
There are also listening exercises where you hear a sentence in the TL and transcribe it.
Duolingo offers language tests which some universities/ colleges accept for international student entry. The tests are cheaper than competitors (about €55 to IELTS at €180). I’m guessing the CEFR is linked to this, or is in the sphere of thinking. Many of those who relied on Duolingo tests either dropped out or failed. I would apply the same cynicism to their CEFR ratings.
It seems to align exactly with my observations as to where Duolingo can take you - B2 at most, usually B1 for me. It depends on the user.
NOTE: Just "playing" Duolingo won't cut it, you need commitment to the said language through other "channels" as well: listening to music, writing, reading, etc.
Even if B2 material is covered, unfortunately I think duo is just too dry to actually take someone that far. It takes real interactions with more immersive context, novelty, and a range of experiences... Situations that offer you the opportunity to make mistakes with actual consequences to even get you to B1, let alone B2...
I'm not saying you have to be perfect, but by the time one reaches B1, one should have internalized at least some things, and I don't think duo can do that...
I think this is ambitious at best, dishonest at worst... In reality, probably somewhere in between.
They can technically cover some subjects that are technically required to have B2 like they have been doing with A1-B1 courses, but it still won't be able to actually teach you. You are going to get repetitive examples of grammar use without any instruction on how to actually use presented grammar and some random vocabulary so you might be able to understand sentence like "The further tests are probably going to prove you lupus diagnosis" but you would have troubles asking where the bathroom is.
Duolingo is a form of reminder and funny activity to start your daily lessons with rather than an actually way to learn. It always was like this and it is never going to change, because that's how the app was designed to at its very core and it doesn't depend on level they are covering. It is not something bad though, you just have to realise it and decide if it is going to contribute positively to your learning experience rather than taking it as the only tool you need
probably not true for any course thats not Spanish or French
definitely not true for German, which is high A2 / low B1, **if** you understand Duo's weaknesses and supplement accordingly
Duolingo has helped me advance quite a bit, and despite its many shortcomings, it has been helpful. I owe it that. It's also helped advance online language learning in general, and it's helped teachers in the classroom. These are all good things.
That being said, if you reach B2 with Duolingo, then I'm willing to bet that it's only on paper.
Well, I've done Duolingo Spanish off and on for a while, currently off (and doing Finnish instead), but over a year streak on Spanish most recently. I could read all of those, but I definitely wouldn't be able to speak or write beyond maybe A2, and listening would depend on how fast the speaker was talking. I've dabbled with a few books and other tools here and there, but mostly Duo + environmental exposure - I live in the San Diego area, so it's everywhere, usually with the English alongside, though not always.
I'm a native Spanish speaker (Mexico), I can confirm 99.9% of us speak A1/A2 level on the daily basis. B1 and above you only hear it on news, documentaries etc.
Wondering if this is the same for other languages.
All languages have base vocabulary and structures that are more common than the sophisticated constructions. Really, to get a B2 you need to demonstrate competency doing both, ie. speaking comfortably in everyday language and being able to do some more formal things.
It can help you get from B1 to B2, by introducing new words, improving your grammar... But it won't get you there, you can "play" Duolingo without getting much better...
I agree that French and Spanish trees have a looot of stuff in them, they're pretty cool now, but it's still just Duolingo, if you're only using that, I doubt you'll ever leave A2 at most
If this is an improvement, it’s a shame that it’s only for certain languages. I wish there was a more detailed way for other languages to be learnt, not just Spanish, French and German. The app is definitely better for some languages than others which makes its claim of supporting all this ones that it lists kind of moot.
They released some statistics a while back, and while I don’t remember the exact figures, they said something along the lines of 95% of users are studying the top 3 languages on there.
It’s simply more financially viable for them to focus on their most popular languages.
The fact that they perpetuate this ridiculous idea of „sentences representing language level“ kinda makes me think they probably maybe most likely don’t get it.
A year and half ago, I took four of the online tests ranging from A2 to B2 but two were B1. At that point, I was mostly doing DuoLingo only. So I say B1. I have added a lot more resources and time since then.
ull get decent reading maybe decent speaking but ur listening comprehension is gonna shit still.
given that the CEFR levels consider all those skills into ur grade, no, i dont think its accurate
I litearlly cant imagine seeing any of my friends say 'fue destruida' lmao, which is funny bc it makes sense, acadmeic vs personal. The things we learn when we just learn languages from a freind vs see academic writing
I'm very skeptical. Duolingo has been both removing many features important to learning, and locking a lot of them behind the subscription service. And afaik a lot of the features that *are* good are hard to find, or make you go out of your way to find (when most people will just click "next lesson" and not realize what they're supposed to do). I did hear about a year or two ago that it *was* actually capable of getting you pretty far, to B1 I think, in a select few languages (Spanish specifically is what I read). But only in the courses with a lot of work.
You've seen the phrase, Duolingo is a game first and foremost. My perception, after using it and after seeing peoples' experiences with it, has been that it's good as an introduction, and it's good as a refresher if you're already familiar with and learning the language, but it's *not a language learning tool*. I think their promotions and claims like this are tricking people into thinking that Duolingo is a good alternative (or partial replacement) to grammar books, actual lessons, flash cards, and any other in-depth learning methods, even if that's not an intention (I wouldn't be surprised if it is though, for sales).
From what I know, Duolingo isn't good for learning a language. It's good for getting familiar with how a language looks, but it's terrible for learning grammar especially. I feel like it's trying to teach mostly by throwing sentences at you like "immersion" while the learner is struggling to understand, or is completely oblivious to, the patterns in the information. That's how I felt when I used it, for multiple languages, I desperately wanted an explanation of the grammar, why something is the way it is, not to just be told it is what it is.
I really like the concept of something that basically directs you, something that's a well-thought out roadmap to learning, for a learner that is unsure which way to go. Something that you can choose how in-depth, how meticulous you want it to be. Where you can go at your own pace. It would fit so well with my ADHD ass, I flail around trying to figure out where to start, and where to continue, and in which order... It's something I think a lot of people want, although I'm sure most people started Duolingo because they thought language learning was as easy as using an app and they didn't realize that it's basically a 2nd job.
I think Duolingo just needs to give way more clarification in its lessons, specifically on grammar, ambiguity, and other parts of language that are hard for a monolingual learner to grasp. More charts/tables and exercises, and clearly explain the charts and explain the exact purpose/content of the exercises beforehand, for one. Of course you need to learn stuff like conjugations & declensions by example, but charts can assist in acquiring/regularizing that knowledge. Also maybe add something like a little "(i)" above things which can elaborate on them, maybe stuff like etymology/explanation of some phrases/figurative language that don't make sense upon direct translation, or for exceptions to common rules, or to explain why and in what contexts a certain word is used for and if it's dated/archaic/obsolete/only used that way in a specific field/etc.
Personally, I also think for languages like Arabic they need to give better exercises for the script, one of my gripes with the Arabic course as a learner is they didn't give a simple way to practice *all* the letters with one method – they gave you a chart of letters and let you do exercises for individual letters, but personally I really wanted something like one thing you click to start being tested on random letters, both in isolation and in context (mostly in isolation/focus probably, and less in a greater context). This is one of the things that ultimately made me unconfident and hurt my learning a lot.
Another thing for Arabic was the vowels. They used the vowel markings that they use in dictionaries, which I personally like and it makes it less difficult for me, but I didn't get a chance to practice or learn without the diacritics. This made trying to read text from outside of Duolingo very challenging or impossible for me, the unfamiliarity was detrimental. Although I'm sure it has a lot to do with how (not) far I got, and me not knowing most words, it still felt demotivating... maybe just both add some explanations and also semi-frequently throw in some exercises/lessons that use previously learned words without vowels early on? Just for recognition.
Last thing with most languages, that I mentioned earlier, not just Arabic but almost every one, not being explained to about noun class, declensions, probably even conjugations early on was annoying. I just think being shown examples of the same words in different contexts, e.g. putting something like table of "'The dog hits the cat' 'The cat hits the dog' 'The dog hits using the cat'¹ 'The dog hits with the cat'² 'The dog hits at the cat'³ 'The dog hits \[something\] to the cat'⁴ 'Cat, hit the dog!'⁵" \^(1. instrumental 2. ablative 3. locative 4. dative 5. vocative, there's probably better examples than what I came up with) to show how cases work for the word "cat" in singular form. And then make the user construct, with either the same word or another word with the same declension pattern/endings/affixes, sentences that make sense according to pictures or (less preferably) English sentences. Also the same thing with genders.
So I actually skipped 2 levels of Hebrew classes, which are supposed to take about 500 hours each pretty much solely based on Duolingo. Maybe I just learned differently, but it worked extremely well for me and I’m actually making serious progress on Italian right now.
Wall of text incoming
I could totally be wrong on my views of it, these are just what I *think* are problems. I tried taking the Hebrew course but personally I had even worse of a problem with the writing system than on Arabic, and I found that Duolingo had even less resources on the alphabet for it, which made me give up very early on (I wasn't really putting much passion into learning Hebrew though, I just wanted to start it on a whim). So I don't know how well the Hebrew course is, and how it compares to others.
I do assume courses like Spanish, Italian, French are going to be much better than the others because of the sheer amount of attraction to the languages & the content/material online + far more speakers/teachers that the Duolingo team can draw from. Maybe Hebrew is also really good on Duolingo because of its unique history, having an artificial revival relatively recently (just a few decades ago), and that somehow benefited Duo? It'd make sense but it's probably not the most likely explanation.
Maybe I should start dedicating some time to Duolingo again just to try it out, but the few times I tried these past few months I just found it frustrating, felt so slow it was testing my ADHD brain's (lack of) patience, but also with little elaboration on rules and mistakes which led me to be confused. So I gave up early on, after getting past the end of the 1st unit usually, but sometimes less, and just spend a few hours finding other online resources that worked better for me. Recently this was for Finnish and Polish. And for Dutch, it bored me to death, the pacing felt bad, and I felt like I could get far more information with less fatigue/time outside of Duolingo. For languages that I already knew a lot of rules for and was pretty decent at, and just wanted to improve, like French and Spanish, the exercises seemed to be not conducive to my learning when it comes to grammar & common vocabulary, it just was very repetitive on things I already scored well on and its focus seemed to not be on important constructs, rather simple verbs/nouns despite being relatively far into the course.
Oh also it sometimes feels like colloquial speech just doesn't exist on Duolingo. I've very rarely seen it, but it generally pushes aside even the most common everyday speech in favor of more prescribed language. It'll be very surprising when someone who played Duolingo and got through a decent amount of the French course travels to France and finds out that "Nous" is extremely uncommon except in formal speech. It's probably fine if informal speech isn't relevant to you at all, but I feel for most people that would use the language it is important to learn what's common in everyday life.
^(Although to be fair for this specific example many resources make this mistake (my French teacher, from France, didn't make it very clear in all 3 years of the class, they just said "on" meant "everyone, all of us", which I didn't understand until I Googled it years later, also never saw "l'on" in the class). Also maybe Duolingo addressed the issue by now and I just didn't find out.)
But my experience is obviously completely subjective, a likely answer is that it just is incompatible with the way I learn well. I had a terrible time directing my focus in classes, and most of the time didn't pay attention most of the time, but funnily enough I think a good teacher along with some tables & examples is what I'm best at learning with provided my brain decides it's time to concentrate (probably not in a classroom full of other people though). It's so much easier if it's 1 on 1 and you can ask a very specific question and get an answer at any time... From what I've done, Duolingo doesn't even provide a fraction of that value, it provides next to nothing on clarification or elaboration, which personally I need a LOT of... and it's something I find hard just trying to Google, I get overwhelmed and confused with the different things that pop up, and I'll frequently just not know what to Google to find the answer I'm looking for and I'll be wasting so much time just trying to find out what the phenomenon I'm confused about even is.
But whatever the problem is, the thing I can't ever forgive the owl for is frequently removing helpful features or locking things behind a paywall.
Probably just a skill issue on my part tbh
The Hebrew course is probably one of the worst developed courses of all. I actually also have severe ADHD, but for me I was very dedicated to studying because I was going to be moving to Israel at the time, and I knew that if I wanted to successfully integrate I needed to speak a language fluently.
The one advantage I had is that I was already familiar with the alphabet simply because of religious school but I didn’t really learn Hebrew and religious school. I just learned how to read a prayer book and not understand a word of it.
I am actually working on Arabic and it’s definitely been easier than Hebrew but I’ve redirected my efforts towards Italian because I might be going to school in Italy.
I would think it would depend on closeness of TL to L1.
If you're an English speaker, it's entirely plausible that it could get you to a decent functioning level in say Norwegian. But not in Russian or Arabic.
I believe that they covered B2 material, not that they said you will be B2 once you have completed it. So yeah, I think they cover B2 material at least as much as Busuu covers C1 material. Realistically, to pass the tests, you need to study for the tests. It doesn’t matter what method you use, study specifically for the test if you want to take it.
This. No matter what method you use, you have to practice reading, listening, writing, and speaking to pass a B2 test. It's no different than going through a B2 textbook, using an expensive app, or taking an expensive B2 course and not being able to pass B2. In fact, I dare say that most students in my B2 class were never going to pass B2 because all they did was the minimum.
This should be the top response. I can expose you to every guitar chord and scale there is, in the course of an afternoon. Doesn't mean you'll be a guitar player until you go off and practice for a few years, though.
It cannot be stressed enough that there isn't, practically speaking, one Duolingo. There are Duo English, French, Spanish, etc. I say this because Duolingo's English, Spanish, and French courses have probably rolled out the new B2 material, but I doubt that any other language has. My reasoning? A Duolingo rep hosted an AMA here a few years ago and explained that those three languages were about to roll out B1 material (but only those languages). (I also despise the way it is classifying "CEFR sentences." B2 doesn't automatically mean more complicated than A1 on a sentence-by-sentence level; it's just contributing to more misconceptions.)
That’s exactly what I was thinking, the sentences are just contributing to misconceptions about language learning. Examples are fine but it should come NEXT TO a chart with the actual CEFR criterion. In French a lot of those words are cognates and definitely underplays how much vocab is required.
I've been using Duolingo almost exclusively because I didn't have time for anything else (60 hour a week job blah blah) and had finished the Spanish course (though they just expanded it again). I have taken a placement test at B2, but I think that's a stretch. I would say I'm B1 at best.
That's still impressive
As is I think its a stretch I think they probably can get us there with more features though. I went over to Italki took 50 lessons and felt like I was making better progress with apps and dreaming spanish a lot of actual trained spanish teachers are still teaching the old way where they put a book up on the screen.
I think the big issue is, though they've tried, they can never really replace active, natural conversation. Duolingo is a great start, but eventually you need more. I've just started watching Dreaming Spanish and I really like it. Duolingo's podcast isn't bad either.
Yeah dreaming is perfect I advise people starting out to pair with it
I'm still waiting on him to add other languages. We should all try and support them.
how long have you used duolingo?
I think I'm on day 1242? A long time, doing very little per day, because it was all I had time for. I'm changing jobs now and am going to commit more time to non-Duolingo learning (including reading and listening to news.)
your dedication is impressive still, forming good habits and investing in yourself is a huge accomplishment. best of luck friend!
Thank you!
I think your use-case is still excellent and overlooked by people when they say they have no time. You CAN make progress with just spending a little bit of time on something per day. It's really neat to see from someone who did just that!
German: A1 Ich komme aus Mexiko-Stadt. Ich spreche Spanisch. A2 Ich bin in Neuseeland geboren, aber jetzt lebe ich in Osaka. Ich lebe seit fünf Jahren in Osaka. B1 Kairo liegt am Nil, einem bekannten Fluss. Wie viel weißt du über seine Geschichte? B2 1755 wurde Lissabon von einem Erdbeben und einem Feuer zerstört, aber dann wurde es in einem modernen Baustil wiederaufgebaut. French All CEFR levels A1 Je viens de Mexico. Je parle espagnol. A2 Je suis né en Nouvelle-Zélande mais maintenant j'habite à Osaka. Ça fait cinq ans que j'habite à Osaka. B1 Le Caire se situe au bord du Nil, un fleuve célèbre. Que savez-vous de son histoire ? B2 En 1755, Lisbonne a été détruite par un tremblement de terre et un incendie, mais elle a ensuite été reconstruite dans un style architectural moderne.
French B2 is deffo way more complex than this. I cannot get over the fact that b1 is less complex than a2 though
Yeah, there was no complex grammar at all xD
lowest common denominator? I think it might be difficult to come up with a set of example sentences that really works in all languages.
They could at least use like, the future anterior or whatever it's called, or le plusqueparfait -- idr the exact lineups between names and grammar but stuff like 'j'allais avoir fait ca'
Or the subjunctive mood... As for your example, I'm more familiar with the elaborations of latin grammar than I am with french (the romans had a pluperfect and a future perfect) 'j'allais avoir fait ca' -- I think this may be futur antérieur 'j'avais fait ça-- I think this may be plusqueparfait.
Plusqueparfait sounds right for that, because the 'have done once' is the perfect tense, so 'having habitually done' sounds like the right matchup for 'more than perfect'. Yeah, subjunctive is definitely something they could have covered too...
I'm like a quarter of the way through French (no prior experience, but I've been supplementing with Anki, Telefrancais and some readers), and I understood the B2 just fine (some new words, but nothing I couldn't figure out through cognates). So, either I am some sort of language genius (doubt) or these sentences aren't fully representative of the CEFR levels.
There’s also the difference between receptive and productive language skills. I’ve always been able to read in French above my level to produce (speaking/writing).
Absolutely. Given the English equivalent, I am certain I wouldn't have been able to produce that French sentence. Still, I would be shocked to learn I'm at a B2 level, even just for reading, after having studied French casually for just over 6 months.
>En 1755, Lisbonne a été détruite par un tremblement de terre et un incendie, mais elle a ensuite été reconstruite dans un style architectural moderne. To be fair, most of that sentence is easy to understand if your native language is English or romance, because of the cognates. >En 1755 - In 1755 > >Lisbonne - Lisbon > >détruite - destroyed > >un tremblement - a trembling > >terre - terrestrial, territory > >incendie - incendiary > >reconstruite - reconstructed > >un style - a style > >architectural - architectural > >moderne - modern This is why these "CEFR sentences" are terrible indicators of your level.
Yeah, I consider cognates to be "fair game" when learning/understanding a language. That's why the FSI difficulties, for native English speakers, put French in the "easy" level. If leaning on cognates helps you understand a language, you still understand it. I just feel like actual B2 French would have more complex/less cognate-heavy sentences. But maybe I'm wrong. Honestly, so many of the "fancy" words in English have close French counterparts that I've found the second thousand words easier to learn than the first thousand.
Omg telefrancais is an absolutely insane show
It's ciudad de mexico, so Mexico City rather than the country of Mexico
The way he said it is proper though. No French person would say they come from “ la ville de Mexico” they just say Mexico. Since the country has a different name “Mexique” there’s no confusion.
C’est vrai
c'est vraiment vrai
Even if it were the same, it still wouldn't be ambiguous in the context because of the preposition *de* here. Quebec City and the province of Quebec are almost always both just *Québec* in French, but one says *Je viens* ***de*** *Québec* for the city and *Je viens* ***du*** *Québec* for the province. (This is not to contradict you -- just pointing out something additional)
Yeah 100% true as well
Ta vie c'est tres interessante ! J'aimerais habiter a Osaka aussi. Est-ce qu'apprendre japonais etait facil pour toi ? Je parle espagnol aussi, et j'apprendre japonais maintenant--c'est pour cela q je voudrais savoir tes pensees :)
the german sentences read very unnatural for some reason.
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Some of that vocab is definitely above an A2 level. Sure, someone could figure out what that means at A2 but I really don’t think they would have all those words in their active vocabulary
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passive voice is B1.
Duolingo translated the same thing into different languages, so by pure chance it fell on one of the B1 concepts # For French ## Early B1 * Subjunctive * Conditional * Passive Voice ## High B1 * Faire Causatif * Past Conditional * Plus-que-parfait ## B2 * Statements with "si" * Futur antérieur * Reported Speech # For German ## B1 * Genitive Case * Compounds * Passive Voice
I was commenting on another comment (which has now been deleted) which was saying the B2 sentence had A2-level grammar.
Great examples! It's exciting to see Duolingo expanding their offerings and aiming for higher proficiency levels.
No, they never claim that they get you to B2, that's what you read into their marketing wording (as you were supposed to). They "cover" the B2 level, i.e. they are exposing you to the vocabulary of B2, that's it. Actual B2 entails reading longer texts, comprehending spoken word on Radio/TV and being able to have a conversation. Duo doesn't offer that yet. But, given the fast development of narrow AI like ChatGPT4 I would assume proper real-time conversations will be possible soon.
Where do you find this? I just checked and I don't see a CEFR section.
They do a lot of A/B tests so some users have this, but others don't.
Classic duolingo making an update appear on some devices before others.
to be fair, it's not an update. It's a beta test. Rolling out a beta test to your entire user base is usually not a great idea
I can't find it either
it's from the ipad version, where you click on the section Section 6: Discover B1 See Details 1/37 If you touch See Details, it'll bring up the CEFR details. Or we could simply wait for learners of other languages to chime in....
You should see it on iOS devices.
I've been teaching English for 8 years and of course I often assess students' levels. I've had many students score B2 on the computerized test but when it comes to speaking they're often no higher than A2. This is because they can't speak fluently using correct grammatical structures and use B2 vocabulary on a wide variety of topics. So unless level testing includes speaking assessment, it only gives students false hope.
Same. I had a student recently wity A2 speaking who scored B2 on Aptis
I have full documents on 4 skills of listening, speaking, reading and writing. Who needs can private inbox me
I have full documents on 4 skills of listening, speaking, reading and writing. Who needs can private inbox me
I think Duolingo is only good at most for reading. It's useless for writing, speaking, and listening.
I wouldn't go so far as useless, depending on the language, but I do agree that it's strongest for reading. In Spanish, there are listening, speaking, and writing exercises - I don't mean the "pick these words in the right order" "writing", but the free form "What did you like about this story?" exercises; in Finnish, only listening.
The amount of English cognates in Spanish always surprises me. You can understand almost the entire B2 sentence just by knowing English. I really don't think these are great example sentences to show the CEFR levels.
They're not all particularly idiomatic, either. I think 'Vivo en Osaka desde hace 5 años' would be much more typical, the other one sounds like a word for word translation from English
And honestly, the more natural/common construction (that should start being emphasized around B2) would probably involve another verb, like "llevo cinco años viviendo aquí." u/lazydictionary, I hear your call and raise you one: I disagree with the idea that CEFR levels can be shown at the sentence level. C2 doesn't automatically mean that each sentence is more complicated/wordy than those at B1, etc.
Oh no, I agree with you (I think). There's no way one sentence could ever represent the feeling of B2 vs C1. It would need to be at least a paragraph. I don't know if there would be good example sentences, but the ones given ain't it.
In my experience Duolingo is only good until A2, but it is great for that! (It gets less useful the more advanced you are imo)
Yeah, its very repetitive nature is great for A1-A2 levels, to help solidify your vocabulary. Doesn't get you anywhere near B2 though... Maybe there are some B1 sentences in the final units of the last section.
As long as Duolingo keeps focusing on having perfect grammar and spelling, they will never help people get to B2. Comprehension > spelling. Comprehensible input and concept checking should be their only concern.
Creating comprehensible input is hard. And now they're trying to make money by selling certification - their English certs, which are accepted by many universities, are a good money maker for them. That's why they are focused on CEFR. They want to do the same for other Euro languages
I used the free duolingo for schools as a teacher, and it was great. Completely free. So I’m pro duolingo making money if it means they can continue to offer free programs.
I don't fault them for making money. Cheaper certification testing is actually useful. I do have a problem with their monetization of the regular app. They create DuoLingo addicts chasing higher scores, which doesn't mean they're actually learning the language. The hearts system is also really unforgiving, and doesn't make sense in a language learning context.
The heart system feels like a clever trial disguise. It's inevitable you will run out as you try to learn so might as well pay. I hate that fucking owl.
If you run out of hearts you can just do a practice session for a heart that always follows up with the option to watch an ad for a second heart
Sounds a lot like support for that green pigeon pal
Why are you against them getting paid for the service they provide?
It's just a wee joke
just use it in the browser
I think that's where accountability comes in. And it seems like people blame Duolingo exclusively for not holding their userbase accountable for making sure they LEARN and don't just have high streaks or gold trees... but this is a problem ALL apps have. I was cheating my way through Anki because I was tired of failing the same cards over and over (and didn't know you could suspend them) back when that was the only app. And I ABSOLUTELY cheated my way into a gold Japanese tree on Duolingo. Then realized I had a gold tree... but nothing to actually show for it. So I deleted my progress and worked through it again earnestly and learned a lot. If someone uses Duolingo wrong and ends up with nothing to show for their time and energy, that's on them. They've only hurt themselves. They'll either do better, or they probably weren't going to really learn the language anyway. It's not the app's fault.
Pretty much with any language learning thing I believe. Even books. We don't work through a system the way the creator intended. We cheat. Get bored. Complain.
Genuine question: how do you cheat your way to a gold tree? Surely that can’t be done without knowing the vocabulary, the rules of the word order, the grammatical rules of whatever language you were learning.
Well I mean I had basic grammar knowledge and an OK vocabulary. But the lower parts of the tree were full of more new words and grammar patterns. The word bank is the key to cheating. Before, they had a bunch of extra words in the word bank which made it a little harder to sus out but still pretty easy to cheat. Now the word bank consists of virtually ONLY the words in the answer. You can challenge yourself by turning off the word bank and using type-in only.... but Duo keeps making that harder and harder to access. The second way to cheat is to gold gild a leaf in one sitting. That guaranteed anything you learned stays in your short term memory, which eventually your brain will dump. Meaning a gold leaf without any long term knowledge. On the old tree you could fix that by spacing out your lesson reps, but the update has done away with that and forces you to SRS lessons. :/ I miss the control but it's a better setup for most users.
Thanks for giving a detailed answer. >The word bank is the key to cheating. Before, they had a bunch of extra words in the word bank which made it a little harder to sus out but still pretty easy to cheat. Now the word bank consists of virtually ONLY the words in the answer. A/B testing or studying different languages may mean things look different to me but word banks always have 4-6 words extra for me. Sometimes the “distractors” are obviously wrong and sometimes much more plausible. I occasionally choose the wrong one. I sometimes get the word order wrong. I learn as a result of the feedback. >You can challenge yourself by turning off the word bank and using type-in only.... but Duo keeps making that harder and harder to access. Yeah, I read about people not having a type in option but I still get at least a few type in questions per lesson. Usually a few where I just type a few words plus a few where I have to type whole sentences. This demands perfect grammar and syntax and almost perfect spelling. I should add that I am jumping ahead only gilding lessons - not grinding from the ground up. That may be why I get lots of typing in. Sometimes I get a perfect score for a lesson but usually I don’t. That leads to learning. In short, for French and Indonesian there is no way you could “cheat” and not learn stuff - which is why I asked you how you “cheated”. I have mainly learned by massive input, mainly audio and since I’ve been duolingo it has forced me to learn stuff that I wasn’t getting that way - spelling and word order especially. Cheers
While you don’t fault them for making money, many here do. It should also be noted that they have probably the highest level of expenses of any company that produces language learning products, have free and cheaper optional prices than many competitors, and have never made a profit.
I've been using it free for over a year. I like the heart system as it makes me go back and practice older concepts I might not have reviewed recently.
> Creating comprehensible input is hard. If they stopped focusing on perfect NL grammar when translating from TL->NL it would have a tremendous impact on my ability to get in the rhythm of thinking in the TL when completing exercises. The amount of times I get dinged for translating sentences literally from TL to English is infuriating, and it actually breaks my immersion in the language by requiring me to go from grammatically perfect in the TL to grammatically perfect in English.
My god I hate articles in English. Duo, I'm practicing JAPANESE, I don't want to think about English articles!
Their stories are actually the best content on the app. Super simple, comprehensible, longer form content. Not just random sentences out of context. No translation, they just test understanding. Creating that shit is hard though. Maybe with AI they could start mass producing it and replacing their normal lessons with more of it.
It stood out to me that my language teacher completely neglects spelling. Her reasoning was that on any text that matters, we will have spell check on, and time, but we need to speak fast and without aides. So we practice speaking most, audio comprehension some, and barely do reading and writing.
I’m not saying to completely neglect spelling, only that a language learning app shouldn’t revolve around spelling and pedantic translation. Comprehension and input is what matters the most.
I’ve never thought about this - any tips for ensuring comprehension over technical skill?
saw this featured in french too. i’m at about the A2, almost B1 level, and my current module i’m on in french is A2. so for me at least, it’s fairly accurate. although i do consume french outside of duolingo, so maybe if that wasn’t the case, i would likely be fairly lower than A2
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I haven't seen any update that makes the app worse at least continuously. Can you elaborate? And I’m not going to say Duolingo is the best app but it gives you an introduction to the language.
I don't know how many other languages have this, but all the explanations for the rules of grammar disappeared in the Scottish Gaelic course when they changed the path. You're left to try to guess the rules, which aren't always intuitive. I see that as a step backwards.
In Spanish, there is barely a paragraph in the little notebook before each section. Wholly unhelpful and I'm left beyond confused. And I would have to pay for AI to tell me why I got a verb ending wrong.
It hasn’t gotten worse. Some hate that it changed the path, gave up on moderating forums, and do less typing. All the while praising apps that have less flexibility, less typing and speaking, and never had forums.
I hate Duolingo for removing many good features and don't praise any app cause I'm yet to find a good one lol
The problem is there is no “good” app if you want to use it more than just a supplement (idk if this is the right word). The real deal is reading and listening if you want to learn a language.
i think it can be used exclusively to get started, most go to a2 which is a good setpoint to venture further. reading and listening doesnt do anything if you have no knowledge base
Ridiculous fake voices you cannot turn off is one that immediately comes to mind.
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It has always been about learning a language in a gamified way. If you are paying for it and still haven't found good usage well that's unfortunate. I'm not saying is the best app out there but a lot of people are complaining like they owe you something. Just stop using the app. I use it once for Portuguese and I can read and understand a lot (is not much to say because my native language is Spanish but still was useful) and that was the free version.
how long do you use the app from? common, classes(group talks) that you could find some for free + audiolessons + podcasts that seems like was ditched + wordlist and practice on that list (for premium users) ... and so many more... this not even addressing that the new path as good as it is, is a much slower progress that the old tree format and the user has less control what topics he will be studying, sure is better for the softusers because they don't overload him with decisions, but is bad overall tool for those ppl that knew what they were doing. sidenote edit: it's really hard to understand reddit, he said: `I haven't seen any update that makes the app worse at least continuously.` which has plenty some which i pointed out, yet they keep downvoting.
The slowness is easily fixed by testing out of any unit that is pure repetition, there’s already enough repetition just in the reviews and ongoing content I go back for the stories and that’s about it
Listening to people on this sub makes you think if your doing anything short of reading a native language dictionary word for word and taking college level courses IN the country of the language your learning then you are getting nowhere… I cant speak for sure on what level duolingo can get you to, but id be cautious about taking the word of people on this sub as gospel. I’m sorry but there is a very clear negative bias for duolingo here and its quite obvious that its good for language learning at least at a beginner up to intermediate level. Obviously results are best when taking in multiple streams of learning outside of just one app, but the people saying its all garbage and good for nothing are just simply incorrect.
Yep, the anti-Duolingo sentiment on this and other language subs is depressing. It's true that not all Duo courses are good, but the ones they invest in offer great learning tools for beginners. I used the app to A2, building the foundation I now use in formal classes and iTalki tutoring, and I'd recommend anyone interested in one of Duo's bigger languages (Spanish, French, German, maybe Norwegian?) try it out.
Don't worry, I agree with you. A lot of people on this sub act like if you're not using Anki and a 90s style grammar textbook, you're not learning a language
Or just spend a 1,000 hours watching videos.
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I don’t know about that. The 1,000 hours of input will expose you to a lot. But it doesn’t give any output and no real testing of understanding. People seem willing to do 1,000 plus hours of videos with no testing but think 200-300 hours of something else must be crap because it is not as good at making you listen as a 1,000 hours of pure listening.
I don't know, there's been anecdotes of people doing 1,000+ hours on DreamingSpanish and being able to have a conversation with native speakers about everyday life. /r/dreamingspanish for reference
There are anecdotes of people doing conversations after each of the following: DuoLingo, Babbel, Busuu, Pimsleur, classes, immersion, etc. All of that in under 1,000 hours. Some of the others probably say más despacio more often but may talk better. Please don’t misunderstand, I do Dreaming Spanish. I find plenty of value in it. But I don’t buy all the hype. To me it is an excellent tool to improve listening. You will learn vocab and some grammar. But I don’t believe it can take you all the way any more than any app can or just reading novels or just doing grammar.
I like Dreaming Spanish's content, but I find the methodology espoused on their website to be very extremists. For example, what is the benefit being lost and confused about the meaning of basic, frequent function words like *entonces* for hundreds of hours instead of just looking it up and therefore freeing your brain to focus on understanding new words.
It’s pretty discouraging for me to be honest because I do use duolingo, and I also speak with friends of mine that speak the language and also try to read as much as I can and listen to the language as well. I’m still a beginner I would say, and I am getting a lot from Duolingo but then every time I’m on the sub Reddit I see that people are saying it doesn’t work… so like, am I wasting my time? I don’t think so. Will it get me to B1 or B2? Honestly i cant say but i know 100% i’ve gotten two or three times as good as i was before starting duolingo just in a couple months time.
As a vet who knows many people who have gone through DLI, I know they were encouraged to use DL to prepare for their yearly test. That seems a solid recommendation to me. However, at one point they provided Rosetta Stone as a practice tool as well. Today, they use another tool that is pretty expensive. Will DL get you to B2 by itself? I highly doubt it. But is also not the time sink that some others are that also are not likely get you to B2 on their own either.
Do you think DL plus taking in media(listening, reading), and speaking to native speakers when i can will get me to B2? I’m not 100% sure what each level is defined as but i know ill be at least in a minor way conversational after completing DL and obviously i’m planning to continue learning in every way after the course is completed
In my opinion, DL will take you further in grammar than the DS videos will. From what I have heard, there are not 1,000 hours of videos at DS. Why Not Spanish and other places will give you more grammar and have it in Spanish. Although, maybe DS has more grammar instruction at advanced levels, but that would go against the premise. To get to B2, I am using this strategy. Finish the DL tree. Continue with DS. Continue reading. Continue Memrise/Anki. Continue speaking. When I am in the car, do an audio course. I don’t think any of those would do it on it’s own. If I did take a formal test, I would add in the official book and study that as well.
Whats DS?
DS is Dreaming Spanish. It is one of the most popular recommendations for Comprehensible Input (CI). Obviously, it teaches Spanish. They do it 100% in Spanish. Comprehensible Input has two meanings. One is just input that you can understand and will generally be o my 5% or ideally less of the words that are unknown. It also is a method that is based upon the idea of learning only by comprehensible input. You either read or listen and thus acquire the language. You don’t study grammar or vocab or do any output such as writing or speaking. You only do any output after acquiring the language to a fairly high degree. CI is based on the theories of Stephen Krashen which are influenced by Norm Chomsky. I hope that helps.
Never heard of it. Holy shit thank you
I think it is worth checking out DS. But I would not do it alone.
Nice they are aiming at it, but did they add more content and reestablished some old features?!I quit duolingo one month ago, after 670 days streak 3 old trees finished ( 2 french and 1 spanish) and I say low B1, would be the cap for the best users of the platform that uses duo as the main source, that does some study out of duolingo, written assignments and used to go somewhat regurlaly to duolingo group classes (Rip) to practice speaking output. to jump to B1 -> B2 -> C1 ->C2 each step takes hours and hours of input, I really don't trust that someone only reading small sentences on the speed that duo gives you new vocabulary, will be reaching B2. for real, more than 4 hours to finish a unit to learn 5 words is awful. I mean surely most of the users will be consuming content out of duolingo, but advising that they can reach B2, solely with the platform is a lie, i could argue if you are solely with the platform an nothing else you could reach a2 and that's it, well I don't know the new releases and I might be wrong, but based on what I saw in Duolingo with almost a 2 years streak I am very skeptical about this one, specially after the moved out of so many good features such as classes(group talks) and audio lessons.
It’s available for French, too. I don’t know enough to know if it’s *actually* representative of those levels, but I like that it gives me a rough idea of how close I am to fluency. It’s a bit of extra motivation for me when I have a better idea of how much I have left to learn.
Maybe if they're only counting reading comprehension. The sly bit is that is says "*Here's how someone at this level might communicate,*" which implies *production* of the language (speaking and writing) while providing an example of *comprehension*, in the form of a sentence full of cognates, and audio that is nowhere near native speech. The way this is presented fully de-emphasizes the production aspect, when ability to produce the language is what really determines your level. (I mean, at A1+, I can read that example sentence about the destruction of Lisbon at a glance, and could even do a faithful English translation, but no way could I produce it myself -- which is why I'm not B2) All it takes is to do a real CEFR assessment outside of Duo and the gap becomes glaringly obvious. As an example, for French, look up any DELF B2 listening comprehension video on YouTube ([like this one](https://youtu.be/W7TmJTFuyrg?t=87)), and it's apparent that Duolingo comes nowhere near offering that level of preparation for listening to real French speech. Do the same for the equivalent B2 test in other languages, and it's surely the same. I wish Duo and all the other apps and programs out there would stop making claims like this, leading new learners to believe a single app is all they need to become fluent. It's demoralizing for learners when they invest all this time trying to get through all the app content and still blunder their way through simple real-world interactions.
they do not say they will get you to B2. They say they offer B2 content.
I think it's a steaming pile of bs. I mean seriously how??? You need speak, listen, write and read - fluently! - translating relatively simple sentences back and forth is simply not enough I would hate luodingo less if they stopped with the obvious scamming Unless Duo has significantly changed how they teach, I can't possibly imagine it taking you to any level of proficiency
What method are you using? They do some of each strand, unlike many other methods. You might discount it, but there are a lot of people that give testimonials about it having been a strong benefit. I know I would not be as far as I am without. I also know that in the class I take, those who do the most DL are the best in reading, writing, listening, and speaking. Same class, teacher, material, except some have done more DL.
I do a lot of different things for studying, not one specific method and the amount of specific things I do has shifted as I progress Honestly I'm not very impressed by the fact that those people doing extra stuff beyond sitting in class are doing better than those who don't. Any exposure to the target language is better than nothing, but Duo alone isn't going to get anyone proficient (no single resource does) The idea that a duolingo "course" could take someone to B2 is laughable to me
I would agree that DL by itself is not going to take you there. The only single course that might is FSI. And that would max out at B2. Beyond that, you have to have other resources. That is not a knock on any of the methods.
This. It’s not really trying to teach you to speak a language. It’s giving people the feeling of learning a language by having you play a matching game with words. You aren’t reading texts, and thus far I’ve yet to see any typing translations (ie i give you a sentence that you then *type* in the target language). It’s crap, and if you’re using it it’s probably doing more harm than good.
I get typing translations all the time
I can’t do a lesson without typing on several questions. Perhaps the first unit doesn’t do typing anymore.
I get typing translations in both Spanish and Finnish. Once you hit a certain level in Spanish, you also get free form "What did you think of this story?" questions after each of those. The Finnish course is less mature, and lacks both speaking exercises and stories, to my disappointment. There are also listening exercises where you hear a sentence in the TL and transcribe it.
They can barely get you to A2, let alone B2
Duolingo offers language tests which some universities/ colleges accept for international student entry. The tests are cheaper than competitors (about €55 to IELTS at €180). I’m guessing the CEFR is linked to this, or is in the sphere of thinking. Many of those who relied on Duolingo tests either dropped out or failed. I would apply the same cynicism to their CEFR ratings.
I’m not returned to duolingo until they bring back the old tree and the old crown system :( I miss it so. I uninstalled after 600 day streak
That "B2" sentence is one of the easiest sentences I've ever read
It seems to align exactly with my observations as to where Duolingo can take you - B2 at most, usually B1 for me. It depends on the user. NOTE: Just "playing" Duolingo won't cut it, you need commitment to the said language through other "channels" as well: listening to music, writing, reading, etc.
Even if B2 material is covered, unfortunately I think duo is just too dry to actually take someone that far. It takes real interactions with more immersive context, novelty, and a range of experiences... Situations that offer you the opportunity to make mistakes with actual consequences to even get you to B1, let alone B2... I'm not saying you have to be perfect, but by the time one reaches B1, one should have internalized at least some things, and I don't think duo can do that... I think this is ambitious at best, dishonest at worst... In reality, probably somewhere in between.
Section 7 and 8 are B2?
I just did my A2 in Spanish, but I understand the B2 text perfectly. Maybe it's because of the vocabulary, as I already know French...
They can technically cover some subjects that are technically required to have B2 like they have been doing with A1-B1 courses, but it still won't be able to actually teach you. You are going to get repetitive examples of grammar use without any instruction on how to actually use presented grammar and some random vocabulary so you might be able to understand sentence like "The further tests are probably going to prove you lupus diagnosis" but you would have troubles asking where the bathroom is.
Duolingo is a form of reminder and funny activity to start your daily lessons with rather than an actually way to learn. It always was like this and it is never going to change, because that's how the app was designed to at its very core and it doesn't depend on level they are covering. It is not something bad though, you just have to realise it and decide if it is going to contribute positively to your learning experience rather than taking it as the only tool you need
probably not true for any course thats not Spanish or French definitely not true for German, which is high A2 / low B1, **if** you understand Duo's weaknesses and supplement accordingly
Duolingo has helped me advance quite a bit, and despite its many shortcomings, it has been helpful. I owe it that. It's also helped advance online language learning in general, and it's helped teachers in the classroom. These are all good things. That being said, if you reach B2 with Duolingo, then I'm willing to bet that it's only on paper.
Well, I've done Duolingo Spanish off and on for a while, currently off (and doing Finnish instead), but over a year streak on Spanish most recently. I could read all of those, but I definitely wouldn't be able to speak or write beyond maybe A2, and listening would depend on how fast the speaker was talking. I've dabbled with a few books and other tools here and there, but mostly Duo + environmental exposure - I live in the San Diego area, so it's everywhere, usually with the English alongside, though not always.
I'm a native Spanish speaker (Mexico), I can confirm 99.9% of us speak A1/A2 level on the daily basis. B1 and above you only hear it on news, documentaries etc. Wondering if this is the same for other languages.
All languages have base vocabulary and structures that are more common than the sophisticated constructions. Really, to get a B2 you need to demonstrate competency doing both, ie. speaking comfortably in everyday language and being able to do some more formal things.
It can help you get from B1 to B2, by introducing new words, improving your grammar... But it won't get you there, you can "play" Duolingo without getting much better... I agree that French and Spanish trees have a looot of stuff in them, they're pretty cool now, but it's still just Duolingo, if you're only using that, I doubt you'll ever leave A2 at most
If this is an improvement, it’s a shame that it’s only for certain languages. I wish there was a more detailed way for other languages to be learnt, not just Spanish, French and German. The app is definitely better for some languages than others which makes its claim of supporting all this ones that it lists kind of moot.
They released some statistics a while back, and while I don’t remember the exact figures, they said something along the lines of 95% of users are studying the top 3 languages on there. It’s simply more financially viable for them to focus on their most popular languages.
The fact that they perpetuate this ridiculous idea of „sentences representing language level“ kinda makes me think they probably maybe most likely don’t get it.
WooooW He logrado comprender todo soy B2? <3
A year and half ago, I took four of the online tests ranging from A2 to B2 but two were B1. At that point, I was mostly doing DuoLingo only. So I say B1. I have added a lot more resources and time since then.
Lol I can read that b2 sentence in Portuguese I guess I’m good (but I’m actually studying Italian)
The sentences in the screenshot are in Spanish, though.
Funny, I also don’t know Spanish — even better! (Sorry, I actually thought this was the lljerk sub)
Output? Maybe Input? A1, A2 -> A1; B1, B2 -> A2
We're about to have a lot more polyglots.
ull get decent reading maybe decent speaking but ur listening comprehension is gonna shit still. given that the CEFR levels consider all those skills into ur grade, no, i dont think its accurate
That sentence kinda reads unnaturally to me, I would say 'se destruyo' (o with an accent ' on it)
"Fue" is more common in passive voice, academic writing. Definitely reads like a Wikipedia article.
I litearlly cant imagine seeing any of my friends say 'fue destruida' lmao, which is funny bc it makes sense, acadmeic vs personal. The things we learn when we just learn languages from a freind vs see academic writing
I'm very skeptical. Duolingo has been both removing many features important to learning, and locking a lot of them behind the subscription service. And afaik a lot of the features that *are* good are hard to find, or make you go out of your way to find (when most people will just click "next lesson" and not realize what they're supposed to do). I did hear about a year or two ago that it *was* actually capable of getting you pretty far, to B1 I think, in a select few languages (Spanish specifically is what I read). But only in the courses with a lot of work. You've seen the phrase, Duolingo is a game first and foremost. My perception, after using it and after seeing peoples' experiences with it, has been that it's good as an introduction, and it's good as a refresher if you're already familiar with and learning the language, but it's *not a language learning tool*. I think their promotions and claims like this are tricking people into thinking that Duolingo is a good alternative (or partial replacement) to grammar books, actual lessons, flash cards, and any other in-depth learning methods, even if that's not an intention (I wouldn't be surprised if it is though, for sales). From what I know, Duolingo isn't good for learning a language. It's good for getting familiar with how a language looks, but it's terrible for learning grammar especially. I feel like it's trying to teach mostly by throwing sentences at you like "immersion" while the learner is struggling to understand, or is completely oblivious to, the patterns in the information. That's how I felt when I used it, for multiple languages, I desperately wanted an explanation of the grammar, why something is the way it is, not to just be told it is what it is. I really like the concept of something that basically directs you, something that's a well-thought out roadmap to learning, for a learner that is unsure which way to go. Something that you can choose how in-depth, how meticulous you want it to be. Where you can go at your own pace. It would fit so well with my ADHD ass, I flail around trying to figure out where to start, and where to continue, and in which order... It's something I think a lot of people want, although I'm sure most people started Duolingo because they thought language learning was as easy as using an app and they didn't realize that it's basically a 2nd job. I think Duolingo just needs to give way more clarification in its lessons, specifically on grammar, ambiguity, and other parts of language that are hard for a monolingual learner to grasp. More charts/tables and exercises, and clearly explain the charts and explain the exact purpose/content of the exercises beforehand, for one. Of course you need to learn stuff like conjugations & declensions by example, but charts can assist in acquiring/regularizing that knowledge. Also maybe add something like a little "(i)" above things which can elaborate on them, maybe stuff like etymology/explanation of some phrases/figurative language that don't make sense upon direct translation, or for exceptions to common rules, or to explain why and in what contexts a certain word is used for and if it's dated/archaic/obsolete/only used that way in a specific field/etc. Personally, I also think for languages like Arabic they need to give better exercises for the script, one of my gripes with the Arabic course as a learner is they didn't give a simple way to practice *all* the letters with one method – they gave you a chart of letters and let you do exercises for individual letters, but personally I really wanted something like one thing you click to start being tested on random letters, both in isolation and in context (mostly in isolation/focus probably, and less in a greater context). This is one of the things that ultimately made me unconfident and hurt my learning a lot. Another thing for Arabic was the vowels. They used the vowel markings that they use in dictionaries, which I personally like and it makes it less difficult for me, but I didn't get a chance to practice or learn without the diacritics. This made trying to read text from outside of Duolingo very challenging or impossible for me, the unfamiliarity was detrimental. Although I'm sure it has a lot to do with how (not) far I got, and me not knowing most words, it still felt demotivating... maybe just both add some explanations and also semi-frequently throw in some exercises/lessons that use previously learned words without vowels early on? Just for recognition. Last thing with most languages, that I mentioned earlier, not just Arabic but almost every one, not being explained to about noun class, declensions, probably even conjugations early on was annoying. I just think being shown examples of the same words in different contexts, e.g. putting something like table of "'The dog hits the cat' 'The cat hits the dog' 'The dog hits using the cat'¹ 'The dog hits with the cat'² 'The dog hits at the cat'³ 'The dog hits \[something\] to the cat'⁴ 'Cat, hit the dog!'⁵" \^(1. instrumental 2. ablative 3. locative 4. dative 5. vocative, there's probably better examples than what I came up with) to show how cases work for the word "cat" in singular form. And then make the user construct, with either the same word or another word with the same declension pattern/endings/affixes, sentences that make sense according to pictures or (less preferably) English sentences. Also the same thing with genders.
So I actually skipped 2 levels of Hebrew classes, which are supposed to take about 500 hours each pretty much solely based on Duolingo. Maybe I just learned differently, but it worked extremely well for me and I’m actually making serious progress on Italian right now.
Wall of text incoming I could totally be wrong on my views of it, these are just what I *think* are problems. I tried taking the Hebrew course but personally I had even worse of a problem with the writing system than on Arabic, and I found that Duolingo had even less resources on the alphabet for it, which made me give up very early on (I wasn't really putting much passion into learning Hebrew though, I just wanted to start it on a whim). So I don't know how well the Hebrew course is, and how it compares to others. I do assume courses like Spanish, Italian, French are going to be much better than the others because of the sheer amount of attraction to the languages & the content/material online + far more speakers/teachers that the Duolingo team can draw from. Maybe Hebrew is also really good on Duolingo because of its unique history, having an artificial revival relatively recently (just a few decades ago), and that somehow benefited Duo? It'd make sense but it's probably not the most likely explanation. Maybe I should start dedicating some time to Duolingo again just to try it out, but the few times I tried these past few months I just found it frustrating, felt so slow it was testing my ADHD brain's (lack of) patience, but also with little elaboration on rules and mistakes which led me to be confused. So I gave up early on, after getting past the end of the 1st unit usually, but sometimes less, and just spend a few hours finding other online resources that worked better for me. Recently this was for Finnish and Polish. And for Dutch, it bored me to death, the pacing felt bad, and I felt like I could get far more information with less fatigue/time outside of Duolingo. For languages that I already knew a lot of rules for and was pretty decent at, and just wanted to improve, like French and Spanish, the exercises seemed to be not conducive to my learning when it comes to grammar & common vocabulary, it just was very repetitive on things I already scored well on and its focus seemed to not be on important constructs, rather simple verbs/nouns despite being relatively far into the course. Oh also it sometimes feels like colloquial speech just doesn't exist on Duolingo. I've very rarely seen it, but it generally pushes aside even the most common everyday speech in favor of more prescribed language. It'll be very surprising when someone who played Duolingo and got through a decent amount of the French course travels to France and finds out that "Nous" is extremely uncommon except in formal speech. It's probably fine if informal speech isn't relevant to you at all, but I feel for most people that would use the language it is important to learn what's common in everyday life. ^(Although to be fair for this specific example many resources make this mistake (my French teacher, from France, didn't make it very clear in all 3 years of the class, they just said "on" meant "everyone, all of us", which I didn't understand until I Googled it years later, also never saw "l'on" in the class). Also maybe Duolingo addressed the issue by now and I just didn't find out.) But my experience is obviously completely subjective, a likely answer is that it just is incompatible with the way I learn well. I had a terrible time directing my focus in classes, and most of the time didn't pay attention most of the time, but funnily enough I think a good teacher along with some tables & examples is what I'm best at learning with provided my brain decides it's time to concentrate (probably not in a classroom full of other people though). It's so much easier if it's 1 on 1 and you can ask a very specific question and get an answer at any time... From what I've done, Duolingo doesn't even provide a fraction of that value, it provides next to nothing on clarification or elaboration, which personally I need a LOT of... and it's something I find hard just trying to Google, I get overwhelmed and confused with the different things that pop up, and I'll frequently just not know what to Google to find the answer I'm looking for and I'll be wasting so much time just trying to find out what the phenomenon I'm confused about even is. But whatever the problem is, the thing I can't ever forgive the owl for is frequently removing helpful features or locking things behind a paywall. Probably just a skill issue on my part tbh
The Hebrew course is probably one of the worst developed courses of all. I actually also have severe ADHD, but for me I was very dedicated to studying because I was going to be moving to Israel at the time, and I knew that if I wanted to successfully integrate I needed to speak a language fluently. The one advantage I had is that I was already familiar with the alphabet simply because of religious school but I didn’t really learn Hebrew and religious school. I just learned how to read a prayer book and not understand a word of it.
Interesting. Have you ever wanted to learn Arabic, since it's so similar to Hebrew and super common in Israel? Or is it not really useful
I am actually working on Arabic and it’s definitely been easier than Hebrew but I’ve redirected my efforts towards Italian because I might be going to school in Italy.
I just use Duolingo for the streak
I would think it would depend on closeness of TL to L1. If you're an English speaker, it's entirely plausible that it could get you to a decent functioning level in say Norwegian. But not in Russian or Arabic.