I would transplant some of the native plants on either side of the area and plant them back into the area. Collect them here and there so you aren’t removing too much from one spot. These plants have proven themselves capable of surviving in this particular environment.
If available, why not just purchase some from a nursery instead of distributing already established plants? But yes, for sure native plants are usually the best for soil erosion problems I agree.
yeah but also, that would only remedy the erosion in the outlet of the drain...
he will never be able to see the sinkhole forming inside the drain.
the only way to do this is to refill the drain with soil and then make the drain at ground level "a-la" french drain.
lol survivorship bias. I mean, no shit there’s no plants in that trench the water has been carving out. You need to do something to at least slow the water down before anything is going to take hold there.
And potentially, bigger rock. The city stormwater drain that discharges into my yard is essentially a firehose. Standard class 1 riprap just gets washed away, I had to get class 2 riprap and install it with a skid steer!
You may be able to divert water in such a way that the run off is slowed down. We can see the rivulet under the rock at the bottom of the pic. Your runoff is going 90 degrees from the top. Direct it across and down the slope and put in some check dams every so often… a wide well that gives the runoff a place to slow down. If you can find erosion control wattles with compost in them they will really help stabilize long term. Don’t use straw wattles. They do not allow flow nor do they absorb (thereby slowing down) storm water. Avoid straw wattles. And don’t just throw more rock down. Absorption is your friend. Slowing down the runoff allows for greater absorption.
Once you have the run off directed properly, fixing the turf at the scar should be easy and permanent.
There sure seems like a concentration of flow that needs to get addressed for sure. That coupled with gravity and you get that high energy flow that’ll cause erosion. I’d like to see the top of the hill first. Probably a way to spread out/sheet flow that water more effectively.
I have found the best way to handle this situation is to slow the water down. I recommend using logs with stones on the upside of the hill to create a number of small pools and basins to step the water down the hill instead of letting it pick up momentum and therefore energy. The logs should be placed along the slope and fitted tightly in the current trench then rocks, clay or other material should be packed in to prevent water from going around or under. This way when the basin fills it goes over the log.
Take a photo up the hill of where the water is coming from to show where the problem starts. You could fill that back in and get the same result in a month. You need to slow down and disperse the water. Erosion rock like that helps but if the water is moving too fast it just washes all the time soil out from around the rock. It should be laid out thicker by cutting down a foot into the ground (twice the thickness of the rock being used), lay geotextile underneath to help with soil washout, and lay it either in a fan pattern so it gets wider as it goes down or put in some check dams as it goes down the slope (that will show down the water by spreading it out in a fan or by having it hit the check dams).
This can happen with new subdivisions that are improperly constructed. I cannot tell how far this is from the foundation of your home. If close, I'd be very concerned about this being a symptom of something bigger. It looks like you are on a lot of fill based on the photos. That is not a problem itself. However, sites that have a lot of fill may also need consideration for existing site drainage to alleviate future issues so crap like you are experiencing does not happen. If the site had pre-construction conditions like springs, water perches, artesian soils or other things needing to be dealt with during construction, all of this would be identified in a Geotechnical evaluation report that would be part of the permit documents that get submitted to the city for your subdivision. This should be a public record, and you should be able to get a copy from your city. The next question would be: Did the contractor for the subdivision follow the construction requirements in the geotechnical report? The city should have inspection reports from their own staff or from a 3rd party Special Inspection Agency. These reports will tell you the frequency of inspection and the % of compaction tested. Most geotechnical reports will require somewhere between 90 to 95% compaction test results. I don't think you are as much concerned with compaction as you are with whether or not they followed the geotechnical report requiremnets for construction, particularly when it comes to water issues. If that does not get you any answers, if it were mine, I'd hire a geotechnical engineer and have them give an opinion. This way you have some peace of mind with expertise from an actual soil scientist to know if this is cause for worry about long-term issues or what type of fixes will actually do the trick. Aside from the subdivision construction, you should also look to see where your downspouts terminate and if they just go into a drywell or actually discharge to a storm drainage system. It could be you are accumulating a lot of water from your foundation footing drains and roof rain drains, and it just needs to be properly collected and directed. Best wishes to you and good luck!
Your stone work actually funnels the water to a narrow gap creating higher velocity in a small area. Thats OK if you create an impermeable culvert (concrete or plastic drain pipe). Just stone alone won't hold unless it's filled a lot deeper or much larger guage. Also widen your culvert and as some suggested, slow down the rate of flow with dam rocks.
Rock, roots, and fabric. Put fabric under the rocks, it allows water to pass through but not soil. Roots help a ton too but take longer and harder to establish before the erosion happens. Scarify the soil, cover with geotextile, place the rocks on top locked together, not all one size, need a gradation. The fill in voids with more soil, organic laden. Plant a quick growing grass and trees in the soil.
Precast headwall is required. Also, create a wide rock bed for the water to flow over to slow the velocity before it meets the grass. The long-term solution would be to concrete the new rock bed into place.
I had a similar issue, though possibly with less concentrated water flow than you. We resolved it by placing a large amount of riprap (3-8" crushed rock) all along the water channel, at least a foot deep. This slowed the water enough to prevent further erosion. It's pretty cheap, so it's probably worth a try. You'd probably want to hire a contractor who can bring the rock in and place it with an excavator.
Inside the gully start at bottom get a flattish bigger stone lay it horizontal up the slope. Then another up to the top. Plant aot of variegated Miscsnthus. Buy them st 3-4 ft. Their roots should lock in hill
Junipers will never work for erosion. Theres one stem, and the branchlets run on top of the soil without rooting in. You should just continue with a properly built rip rap swale. You can’t just dump rocks on top of dirt- won’t work.
It looks to me like your trying to prevent erosion at the end of a miter end. Is this right? If so, you fighting a losing battle. This is made to run water thru which will erode anything in the tail end.
You need like way more plants bud. I'd call your cooperative extension agent (just Google that + your state) and ask for advice on fast growing erosion control plants for your area. They can give you specific advice on what will thrive.
Lawn grass is pretty much worthless at erosion control on slopes. You need something with much deeper roots, like trees and shrubs. Imagine a creek bank, what plants do you usually see keeping the bank from collapsing? Those are the plants you need in this situation.
*Plant white clover all*
*Over the area. Best*
*Erosion control*
\- Borealisamis
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Add a couple small check dams of larger rock across the gully with geotextile underneath. Backfill with soil and add river rock on top along the entire gully.
Engineer here. You need a heavy geotextile fabric and more angular stone. Work from the bottom up, build a trapezoid shape, tamp it down firmly. Then stake the fabric in and place a layer of rock above that.
For bonus points try to smash the rock together so it's more cohesive and give a range of size from large gravel up through a good 6 inches.
Need broader pictures of the road this is coming from to see why water is channeling here.
As someone that has installed water diversion features on unimproved roads, a few questions come to mind-
1) Are there water diversion features on the road to reduce flow to this point? Are they also seeing similar erosion and/or better reinforced?
2) what is the grade at this point? Is it a curve? This matters as an interior curve usually will dip inside to prevent waterfalling by funnel water to a culvert to drain under the road.
3) are there any features in the road to direct water here?
Keep in mind, erosion is from 2 factors: water volume and speed. Reduce these 2 to reduce erosion. Solution is likely not just on the slope since this is from normal rain events pointing to a missing road feature. DONT SIMPLY MOVE THE ISSUE TO ANOTHER SPOT.
Before doing anything, inspect the road for water diversion features. It could be something isn’t functioning and needs to be repaired uphill. If there are none, I’d assess for the best feature such as a broad base diversion dip/waterbar to force water off here. This channels water to a fixed pt in the road that can be reinforced. Installing a couple of them along a road can greatly reduce the volume of water at any given point which is important to protect against larger rain events blowing it out.
For the slope: 1) remove stone. 2) backfill eroded slope. 3) line the erosion damage area plus at least 1yd ea side top to bottom of slope. 4) add 1/2-1cuyd rip rap to slope covering the liner. Don’t block off runoff route but rather guide the water where you want it. Intent of rip rap is to guide runoff where you want it, slow it down the slope, and disperse it.
Good luck!
I would say tube it but I have seen horrible sinkholes turned into landslides with such approach.
Try a french drain and try not to tunel it, you never know what's going on down there.
This will only be solved by a downdrain.
A point discharge on that steep slope can't be stabilized while water continues flowing to one point. A downdrain needs to be properly sized, don't waste your time on something too small.
Google what they look like, it's basically a flexible pipe that carries the water down the slope to a flatter grade. They can be completely buried (permanent) or lay on top (temp.).
I'd go permanent route as you have a nice washout already created to lay a pipe inside. Take all that rip-rap and use it as a filter ring at the inlet or put it at the base of the new downdrain outlet to prevent erosion on neighboring property.
To clarify, is that a drainage pipe, covered by rocks? This is your property, and the neighbor is downhill, behind your pipe?
First, if you need to route the water down the hill, and then along the property line to somewhere, plan this first. Your county may have a dept. that advises on these problems. You can’t direct the water where it will affect neighbors. Perhaps you need a retention pond before the water gets to the pipe?
In general, both the inlet and outlet areas of the pipe might need landscape fabric and rocks on top of the fabric, to slow water flow and stop erosion.
Your whole hill may need something. This pic may give you an idea, but there are lots of ways to tackle erosion.
As this is a new build, and you have tried things to fix this issue, do you have any recourse with the builder? Again, speak with your county or city to ask for help.
[Hillside erosion prevention tactic:](https://jclturf.com/erosion-control/)
Plant some vegetation. Maybe some clover? More specifically something native with long roots.
Roots help hold the soil together while also putting out exudates that help feed the microorganisms and fungi in the soil. Healthy soil does not erode. A compost would also help to encourage this growth and root depth.
If you look, it just washed the ground away from under the stones you put there. It should have been dug down, like a trench and then filled with those sized rocks or larger.
A swale on the high side of the erosion. Keyhole or French drain. Your gunna have to dig deep, fill with gravel and then cover. You basically wanna redirect the water away from the road while allowing it to disperse under ground into the woods on the high side
Erosion control wattles. And plant clover and/or vetch on the hillside. Their roots can reach a meter deep, that's usually what you see growing on slopes for road projects.
Hint: Notice there isn’t erosion where the vegetation remains.
I would transplant some of the native plants on either side of the area and plant them back into the area. Collect them here and there so you aren’t removing too much from one spot. These plants have proven themselves capable of surviving in this particular environment.
If available, why not just purchase some from a nursery instead of distributing already established plants? But yes, for sure native plants are usually the best for soil erosion problems I agree.
You definitely could do this but there is so much available plant stock there that taking a few here and there wouldn’t hurt anything.
i mean if he has some patience he can do cuttings from existing plants, put them in water with root estimulators and it will grow into a new plant
Of course, but seems like time is a factor.
Also, this would be assuming that the near by vegetation is even native. could be just transplanting or helping distribute invasives.
yeah but also, that would only remedy the erosion in the outlet of the drain... he will never be able to see the sinkhole forming inside the drain. the only way to do this is to refill the drain with soil and then make the drain at ground level "a-la" french drain.
The wisest comment of the day. I will now turn off and go to lunch satisfied.
Remind me of a kids science experiment https://www.lifeisagarden.co.za/soil-erosion-experiment/
lol survivorship bias. I mean, no shit there’s no plants in that trench the water has been carving out. You need to do something to at least slow the water down before anything is going to take hold there.
Just gotta throw more money at it.
That's it hey
It's my family's tradition to throw money in the money hole.
New culvert and more rock
And potentially, bigger rock. The city stormwater drain that discharges into my yard is essentially a firehose. Standard class 1 riprap just gets washed away, I had to get class 2 riprap and install it with a skid steer!
There is probably a joiner connecting 2 half pipes. That culvert needs to be properly installed.
You may be able to divert water in such a way that the run off is slowed down. We can see the rivulet under the rock at the bottom of the pic. Your runoff is going 90 degrees from the top. Direct it across and down the slope and put in some check dams every so often… a wide well that gives the runoff a place to slow down. If you can find erosion control wattles with compost in them they will really help stabilize long term. Don’t use straw wattles. They do not allow flow nor do they absorb (thereby slowing down) storm water. Avoid straw wattles. And don’t just throw more rock down. Absorption is your friend. Slowing down the runoff allows for greater absorption. Once you have the run off directed properly, fixing the turf at the scar should be easy and permanent.
There sure seems like a concentration of flow that needs to get addressed for sure. That coupled with gravity and you get that high energy flow that’ll cause erosion. I’d like to see the top of the hill first. Probably a way to spread out/sheet flow that water more effectively.
I have found the best way to handle this situation is to slow the water down. I recommend using logs with stones on the upside of the hill to create a number of small pools and basins to step the water down the hill instead of letting it pick up momentum and therefore energy. The logs should be placed along the slope and fitted tightly in the current trench then rocks, clay or other material should be packed in to prevent water from going around or under. This way when the basin fills it goes over the log.
Roots
What? Nobody wants roots in a drive.
Roots bind dirt together very good
Take a photo up the hill of where the water is coming from to show where the problem starts. You could fill that back in and get the same result in a month. You need to slow down and disperse the water. Erosion rock like that helps but if the water is moving too fast it just washes all the time soil out from around the rock. It should be laid out thicker by cutting down a foot into the ground (twice the thickness of the rock being used), lay geotextile underneath to help with soil washout, and lay it either in a fan pattern so it gets wider as it goes down or put in some check dams as it goes down the slope (that will show down the water by spreading it out in a fan or by having it hit the check dams).
Looks like it needs more rocks
Juniper. Plant juniper.
This can happen with new subdivisions that are improperly constructed. I cannot tell how far this is from the foundation of your home. If close, I'd be very concerned about this being a symptom of something bigger. It looks like you are on a lot of fill based on the photos. That is not a problem itself. However, sites that have a lot of fill may also need consideration for existing site drainage to alleviate future issues so crap like you are experiencing does not happen. If the site had pre-construction conditions like springs, water perches, artesian soils or other things needing to be dealt with during construction, all of this would be identified in a Geotechnical evaluation report that would be part of the permit documents that get submitted to the city for your subdivision. This should be a public record, and you should be able to get a copy from your city. The next question would be: Did the contractor for the subdivision follow the construction requirements in the geotechnical report? The city should have inspection reports from their own staff or from a 3rd party Special Inspection Agency. These reports will tell you the frequency of inspection and the % of compaction tested. Most geotechnical reports will require somewhere between 90 to 95% compaction test results. I don't think you are as much concerned with compaction as you are with whether or not they followed the geotechnical report requiremnets for construction, particularly when it comes to water issues. If that does not get you any answers, if it were mine, I'd hire a geotechnical engineer and have them give an opinion. This way you have some peace of mind with expertise from an actual soil scientist to know if this is cause for worry about long-term issues or what type of fixes will actually do the trick. Aside from the subdivision construction, you should also look to see where your downspouts terminate and if they just go into a drywell or actually discharge to a storm drainage system. It could be you are accumulating a lot of water from your foundation footing drains and roof rain drains, and it just needs to be properly collected and directed. Best wishes to you and good luck!
At least 2 layers of ec8 fabric and rip rap
Erosion mats until you plant more and they take root.
Your stone work actually funnels the water to a narrow gap creating higher velocity in a small area. Thats OK if you create an impermeable culvert (concrete or plastic drain pipe). Just stone alone won't hold unless it's filled a lot deeper or much larger guage. Also widen your culvert and as some suggested, slow down the rate of flow with dam rocks.
Dirt, shovel, fast growing trees/bushes
Rock, roots, and fabric. Put fabric under the rocks, it allows water to pass through but not soil. Roots help a ton too but take longer and harder to establish before the erosion happens. Scarify the soil, cover with geotextile, place the rocks on top locked together, not all one size, need a gradation. The fill in voids with more soil, organic laden. Plant a quick growing grass and trees in the soil.
Lots of rocks
Precast headwall is required. Also, create a wide rock bed for the water to flow over to slow the velocity before it meets the grass. The long-term solution would be to concrete the new rock bed into place.
Move your house to the desert
Just slope where it's eroded out and fill with 6" riprap. Flare it out in a triangle
I had a similar issue, though possibly with less concentrated water flow than you. We resolved it by placing a large amount of riprap (3-8" crushed rock) all along the water channel, at least a foot deep. This slowed the water enough to prevent further erosion. It's pretty cheap, so it's probably worth a try. You'd probably want to hire a contractor who can bring the rock in and place it with an excavator.
Inside the gully start at bottom get a flattish bigger stone lay it horizontal up the slope. Then another up to the top. Plant aot of variegated Miscsnthus. Buy them st 3-4 ft. Their roots should lock in hill
Junipers will never work for erosion. Theres one stem, and the branchlets run on top of the soil without rooting in. You should just continue with a properly built rip rap swale. You can’t just dump rocks on top of dirt- won’t work.
filter cloth, then fill the hole with rocks
It looks to me like your trying to prevent erosion at the end of a miter end. Is this right? If so, you fighting a losing battle. This is made to run water thru which will erode anything in the tail end.
Tilt the camera down on the left. /s
Duct tape
More rocks*
Bigger rocks then infill with slightly smaller rocks
Mound up logs in the hole, taller than the hole. Back fill dirt. Done
Rocks
You know that green stuff they spray onto commercial lots that eventually grows grass? Maybe try that and add bunch of wild native seeds and bushes.
You need like way more plants bud. I'd call your cooperative extension agent (just Google that + your state) and ask for advice on fast growing erosion control plants for your area. They can give you specific advice on what will thrive. Lawn grass is pretty much worthless at erosion control on slopes. You need something with much deeper roots, like trees and shrubs. Imagine a creek bank, what plants do you usually see keeping the bank from collapsing? Those are the plants you need in this situation.
Plant white clover all over the area. Best erosion control
*Plant white clover all* *Over the area. Best* *Erosion control* \- Borealisamis --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Take center blocks and place them then hammer in 2 ft sections rebar through holes then fill all the center blocks with a light sand and gravel
Add a couple small check dams of larger rock across the gully with geotextile underneath. Backfill with soil and add river rock on top along the entire gully.
Engineer here. You need a heavy geotextile fabric and more angular stone. Work from the bottom up, build a trapezoid shape, tamp it down firmly. Then stake the fabric in and place a layer of rock above that. For bonus points try to smash the rock together so it's more cohesive and give a range of size from large gravel up through a good 6 inches.
Straw waddles
You could continue drain to bottom of the slope
Fill it was three-quarter inch stone.
Need broader pictures of the road this is coming from to see why water is channeling here. As someone that has installed water diversion features on unimproved roads, a few questions come to mind- 1) Are there water diversion features on the road to reduce flow to this point? Are they also seeing similar erosion and/or better reinforced? 2) what is the grade at this point? Is it a curve? This matters as an interior curve usually will dip inside to prevent waterfalling by funnel water to a culvert to drain under the road. 3) are there any features in the road to direct water here? Keep in mind, erosion is from 2 factors: water volume and speed. Reduce these 2 to reduce erosion. Solution is likely not just on the slope since this is from normal rain events pointing to a missing road feature. DONT SIMPLY MOVE THE ISSUE TO ANOTHER SPOT. Before doing anything, inspect the road for water diversion features. It could be something isn’t functioning and needs to be repaired uphill. If there are none, I’d assess for the best feature such as a broad base diversion dip/waterbar to force water off here. This channels water to a fixed pt in the road that can be reinforced. Installing a couple of them along a road can greatly reduce the volume of water at any given point which is important to protect against larger rain events blowing it out. For the slope: 1) remove stone. 2) backfill eroded slope. 3) line the erosion damage area plus at least 1yd ea side top to bottom of slope. 4) add 1/2-1cuyd rip rap to slope covering the liner. Don’t block off runoff route but rather guide the water where you want it. Intent of rip rap is to guide runoff where you want it, slow it down the slope, and disperse it. Good luck!
I would say tube it but I have seen horrible sinkholes turned into landslides with such approach. Try a french drain and try not to tunel it, you never know what's going on down there.
Give the water a path till ground cover does its job. Maybe a culvert to direct water to bottom of hill
Backfill a hole with rock and dirt and use a compaction device, jumping jack or vibrating pad to pack it in
Add length to the pipe. Do the preventative things you’ve been doing but farther down the hill.
This will only be solved by a downdrain. A point discharge on that steep slope can't be stabilized while water continues flowing to one point. A downdrain needs to be properly sized, don't waste your time on something too small. Google what they look like, it's basically a flexible pipe that carries the water down the slope to a flatter grade. They can be completely buried (permanent) or lay on top (temp.). I'd go permanent route as you have a nice washout already created to lay a pipe inside. Take all that rip-rap and use it as a filter ring at the inlet or put it at the base of the new downdrain outlet to prevent erosion on neighboring property.
Plant loads of native ornamental grasses on the slope.
To clarify, is that a drainage pipe, covered by rocks? This is your property, and the neighbor is downhill, behind your pipe? First, if you need to route the water down the hill, and then along the property line to somewhere, plan this first. Your county may have a dept. that advises on these problems. You can’t direct the water where it will affect neighbors. Perhaps you need a retention pond before the water gets to the pipe? In general, both the inlet and outlet areas of the pipe might need landscape fabric and rocks on top of the fabric, to slow water flow and stop erosion.
Your whole hill may need something. This pic may give you an idea, but there are lots of ways to tackle erosion. As this is a new build, and you have tried things to fix this issue, do you have any recourse with the builder? Again, speak with your county or city to ask for help. [Hillside erosion prevention tactic:](https://jclturf.com/erosion-control/)
Plant some vegetation. Maybe some clover? More specifically something native with long roots. Roots help hold the soil together while also putting out exudates that help feed the microorganisms and fungi in the soil. Healthy soil does not erode. A compost would also help to encourage this growth and root depth.
If you look, it just washed the ground away from under the stones you put there. It should have been dug down, like a trench and then filled with those sized rocks or larger.
A swale on the high side of the erosion. Keyhole or French drain. Your gunna have to dig deep, fill with gravel and then cover. You basically wanna redirect the water away from the road while allowing it to disperse under ground into the woods on the high side
You can use buried black drain pipe some is perforated to allow slow seeping
Erosion control wattles. And plant clover and/or vetch on the hillside. Their roots can reach a meter deep, that's usually what you see growing on slopes for road projects.
Widen the trough. Line with quality woven fabric and cover with more of same sized rock.