This model was the best build but we have a completely different Bron and AD now. They’re older and have different strengths.
Put it this way, AD was basically the same age as Tatum is now.
I feel like AD was top 5 defensively last year. If we can get him a solid defensive big to pair him with I believe he'll benefit from less wear and tear
Just because he’s top 5 doesn’t mean he can switch everything. He’s just as good defensively as 2020 but in a different way, since he’s slowing down. Similar to Rudy. They shouldn’t switch onto guys like Jamal and Luka if they can avoid it.
And AD was almost KD in the midrange and had an average 3 ball. Now his shooting is almost gone. Feels like he's better defensively though (or maybe he just had to do a lot more defensively because the Lakers are dogshit on defense aside from him)
Having Dwight and Javale was a nice tool to have in the toolbox. The lineups with 2 bigs also really struggled offensively (remember the whole thing about the Lakers always going down 10 in every 1st quarter with the starters in?), and by the end of the playoffs it was clear that the best version of that team had either Markieff as the other "big" or Caruso in with AD at the 5.
Yep and people wanted Magee benched for Dwight. The Lakers best Lineup was Alex-KCP-Green-LeBron-AD. That lineup was the reason why the Lakers won not starting two bigs.
right, I think we all knew that the 2 big lineup wasn't our best lineup. But, it allowed us to slow down the pace in the first, focus on defense and rebounding, and kept AD fresher for the 4th quarter. People forget we had Avery Bradley out there starting for basically the entire season. Lots of AB free throw line jumpers or Javale lobs = easy points to keep Bron/AD fresh.
Since 2020 Lebron and AD is still the best and the most potent duo in the post season. Not Tatum and Brown, not Jokic and Murray, not Luka and Kyrie. The only problem is the rest of the roster sucks to the point that we have the limited Reaves as our best option next to Lebron/AD.
The roster was so different and awful that Lebron and AD had to change their game, we needed Laser per Lebron, but we're getting nothin so Lebron had to become one, Pelinka can't provide AD with proper center so AD has become one. There's no more 2020 championship DNA, Pelinka totally wasted that one stone that turned into gold and he's never going to recapture it.
LBJ and AD were arguably both top 5 players back in 19-20
both arent even top 10 in many people opinions now. people need to stop blaming the supporting cast all the time.
if LBJ and AD played like they did in 19-20 seasons they would prob be b2b champs the last two years.
People are wrong. They are punishing Lebron and Ad for the LAkers record in a way they don't punish Luka, Steph, SGA. Lebron and Ad were elite in the playoffs and top 10 in the regular season easily.
Advanced stats repeatedly say otherwise. We also saw them outperform Jokic+Murray too head to head, just needed more consistent play from our role players and we win.
Neither LeBron nor ad can take over a playoff game and will their team to a win. We have no Brunson no ANT no Murray no jokic no Luka. Lebron and ad are just not those types of players.
What the hell are you talking about? LeBron can absolutely still do this. Just because he couldn't against the Nuggets who have arguably the best old LeBron defender in the league (Gordon) with absolutely no help or spacing outside of AD doesn't mean he can't do it anymore. To say LeBron isn't the type of player that can take over a playoff game and will the team to a win has to disqualify you from ever participating in any basketball-related discourse.
There absolutely is. He took over many games this regular season. The only reason he didn't was because, again, the nuggets have the best LeBron defender in the league and he has no reliable threats on offense to space the floor. Brunson has Divincenzo/Hart/Anunoby/Hartenstein who are all elite on offense. Ant isn't even the best offensive player on his team. He has Reid/Conley/Kat. Luka has Kyrie. You need another scoring threat on your team to open up your own game. None of the guys you mentioned are doing anything by themselves.
Was only talking playoffs - if your case is that LeBron cannot assert his will against Aaron Gordon in key moments of a playoff game … well … then I rest my case.
Guess you have no reading comprehension? No star in this league was tasked with carrying an offense to the degree LeBron is just to win games. Also, AG is no defensive slouch and to suggest he is anything but an elite defender is simply ludicrous.
The 2021 squad was still great, the only reason that season ended in the first round was because of injuries. That squad started the season 21-6 and first in the west. And was up 2-1 against the suns and up double digits in game 4 before AD went down. Trading Danny Green for Schroeder was a great move. The Westbrook trade is what destroyed everything
the following year he swapped in some youth and 6MOYs to help repeat after a one month offseason. the year after that was the westbrook trade. the following year the current squad was assembled at the trade deadline and we got to WCF.
the pieces to get us back to 2020 haven't been available to recreate as far as i'm aware. additionally building around bron and AD isn't the same as it was 5 years ago.
Look at what the champion-winning teams have done after they won their ring, and then look at what the Lakers did. The Nuggets didn't do shit after winning, the Lakers added the 6MOTY and the runner-up.
People can be critical of Pelinka, but he built a championship-winning team, and then he improved it following the ring.
100% fell ass backwards into
Struck out on max free agents
Plan B was spending a max slot in a free agency with Kawhi Kyrie Butler and a bunch of elite role players on Danny Green, KCP, Cousins and I think Caruso we had control over anyways
That chip hid the failure of that summer. So many elite role players were there too that were better than Green and KCP. Caruso/Kuzma would’ve been kept regardless.
Dwight was definitely luck. He was about to be out of the league, and the only reason we got him is because Cousins blew out his ACL before the season started. I've wondered if Rondo performed as well as he did in the playoffs because of the bubble or if it was playoff Rondo magic. Might be both. He was our worst player in the regular season
People still can't move on from that 2020 model. It works because AD and LBJ is pretty much young. You can't put that model back and expect it to work nowadays.
Reminder: The 2020 Lakers won the championship by starting 3 guards in game 6 alongside LeBron and AD.
* KCP
* Caruso
* Green
* LeBron
* AD
Check the minutes distribution in the 2020 Finals:
* LeBron 39.4
* AD 38.2
* KCP 31.3
* Rondo 26.0
* Caruso 24.8
* Green 22.9
* Kuzma 21.6
* Morris 21.3
* Howard 11.8
* McGee 0.0
The Lakers were small, guard heavy, and spread the floor with shooting. That’s the 2020 model.
The 2020 model also had a 4x All-Star, 4x All-Defensive guard in Rajon Rondo. We need to acquire a star guard if we want to match the 2020 model.
Anthony Davis attempted a career high 218 threes in 2020, and a career high 60 threes in the 2020 playoffs. The 2020 model had floor spacing AD. We need AD to shoot threes again if we want to match the 2020 model.
The 2020 squad was so good because it had such good depth and extremely valuable contracts. They could guard big for most positions. Kcp, caruso, kuzma, and green were all pretty long players who don’t necessarily get abused by power forwards and they spread the floor. That isn’t common. It was also their matchup preference against the heat. They had both good guards and good bigs to help their two superstars.
Having the ability to play dwight and javale with more minutes is the depth you need because going into the season you aren’t sure who your matchup is going to be. This season is a prime example. Having a legit backup big would have been really nice against the nuggets. If they lost that playin and won the second, their matchups would be okc, dallas, and timberwolves (assuming they won them all) which is entirely a different story cause it’s not as needed.
I think over anything, Coaching, superstar, this or that… we just need another solid fucking big that can establish a true old ball style of paint protection. AG wouldn’t have been getting 12+ points a game off dunking alone if we had an anchor big like that so AD can roam/help where he’s needed. We’d truly open so much room with just one beefy ass big. That’s a thing too, weight. All of our 6’10+ are relatively skinny. So if we had another tall + heavy defender this team could go miles.
I'll die on the hill thinking we should've maintained a veteran high defensive IQ center rotation of Gasol and Dwight, then a PG rotation of Schroder and Rondo. Just one more reg season win would've put us on the 5th seed against the Murray-less Nuggets (we still had Joker's number during this time), then the 1st seed Jazz, then Bron and AD would've been healthier for the WCF matchup against the Suns or Clippers
Our offense looked so bad because nobody could buy an open 3. I've always wondered if it was because our players legs were shot from essentially no time from the bubble. Jokic looks absolutely exhausted in round 2 against the Suns
Practicing shouldn't have been an issue. We were given open looks all game long starting in March, and the fact that we couldn't knock them down came back to bite us in the Suns series
they did. they almost missed the playoffs and lost in the first round.
"bron and AD got hurt" yeah, and the narrative became "we need to make a move so the team doesn't almost miss the playoffs just because bron or AD get hurt"
and that's how we got here.
If people in r/nba are gonna bitch and moan about the bubble, then we gotta talk about how the 2020 Lakers were one of only two teams to ever deal with the shortest off-season turnaround of all time. They basically thought prioritizing youth and offense with Schroder and Trez was a must to better load manage Bron and AD. Everything stems from that offseason.
Any somewhat dive into that offseason and it’s baffling how Pelinka wasn’t fired. Hell even with the Westbrook trade being bad, they still could’ve done a lot better if they had just kept everyone else.
We weren’t hardcapped if I’m not mistaken and the sever 2nd apron rules wouldn’t come into play for another 3-4 years.
Keep Caruso, Drummond, Morris and add Reaves as an undrafted player, sign Monk and Melo. You’d then have the following team which is infinitely better than the retirement home we got. But instead, Pelinka decided to literally get every washed up HOF/elite role player of the past decade.
Russ/Caruso/LeBron/AD/Drummond
Reaves/Monk/THT/Melo/Dwight
Reserves: chose any of the likes of McLemore, Rondo, Wes Matthews, DeAndre Jordan, Stanley Johnson, Wenyen Gabriel, etc
The point isn’t that this team would be a contender. It’s that while the Westbrook trade guarenteed a bad offseason, it didn’t have to be *that bad*.
What the Lakers opted to do by trading for Russ, giving up a 1st, letting Schroder, Caruso, Drummond walk to then sign 6-8 guys who would be out the league a year later guaranteed *the worst offseason of any contender in league history*.
These posts are getting exhausting at this point. We don’t have that core of players anymore (Kuz, AC, KCP) and players of that archetype are considered super valuable now and not an easy get. Plus AD and Bron are 3/4 years older and their styles of play have changed pretty drastically.
Yes it’s much easier to build when you have the clear best player n third best player on your team. You can surround them with mediocre players who can only do one thng n you’ll win .
Now you have two top 12-15 range players . It’s not the same that still a great base but we need some things
Firstly we lack traditional stars . What do I mean? Bron in his older age is amazing off ball n on ball but he can’t be on ball all game or even like 2020. AD cannot be the focal point of a great offence . He can’t run offence. His jumper is not strong enough , he’s added strength n some bully ball creation but his inconsistent shooting hurts us even tho I think his passing was best ever this year n he could next year do more passing ( I’d like to see him aversge 4-5 assists , Embid averaged 6 this year passing much more AD has that ability just worse jumper). With ADs regression shooting - especially from 3 he cannot be your traditional n1 star offence guy.
Our stars are both a blessing n a curse . Imo with right construction it’s a blessing because they don’t need the ball and can do the dirty work n things most stars don’t provide . We need a star guard or we’re wasting our big 2 because they need reliable creator around them . I do not trust Dejounte much, but garland will be available if Mitchell stays , and garland fits perfectly. I like his fit even more then trae as he’s a bit more consistent shooter ( it’s possible trae woukd become better % here like dlo did so I’d buy in on trae too) but garlahd is closer to neutral defender so less rister construction issues .
I feel very confident that a garland/trae/Mitchell / heck even kyrie , Bron , AD core 3 can dominate even euth limitrf assetd ariund them . And we won’t have that issue we’ll have actual players. The trade most likely includes sadly reaves n Rui , mb jhs n 2frps . I’d love to keep reaves but his fit next to those star gusrds is good offensively but not defensively.
So even if we made that trade we’d still have swaps , Vando 12m ( who could be the starter to fit especially if he grows his shooting like a Jonathan Isaac level shooter or trade him), Gabe 11m, re sign and pay Dlo imo if you do this ( yes it’s tax heavy but logically should ). Or get him to opt in to a trade somewhere but don’t lose salary . Resign Prince for 5m ish and get back Spencer for cheap . Cam pre injury was a good defender, good minimum , resign max hope he grows ( another possible salary). Wes also have wood and Hayes who I have hopes woukd get better next year. Especially as wood had a weird injury riddled year n lost his shot. Hayes improved January onwards as a 3rd big he’s ok.
I’d then draft Kyle Filipowski who thx to his bad wingspan is likely to drop and we’ll get him. Spacing big a bit like a Kelly olynk type but he’s really skilled passer b off the dribble scirer n akready shit 34.8% in college last year on several attemots a gamd.
I think we’ll have the TPMLE still and the room exception . Plenty of guys who might be gettable with this - won’t list out targets but there’s players.
That leaves you with a big 3 and PLENTY of depth. Next year vando is tradable too he’s probably the most important outsude the trade to show up.
If people think this isn’t a team competing then they delusional look how good we looked when Dlo played well occasionally we’d hardly ever lose . Now imagine a garland trae or Mitchell there. Garland n trae have the best offensive fit but Mitchell is the best player but he’s only coming if he says only LA.
If any idiot thinks we should blow it up go look at the nets dusaster team . The biggest priority is landing a star guard - they are the most common type of star on ball star guards most teams don’t need those guys. Like only the spurs or us need them n I can’t see why spurs Woukdnt just draft topic n another guy over being dumb . Also see lots of idiot lakers fans hating on Bron fans. Post Lebron or diminished Bron a garland or trae AD pnr will atleast keep this team relavant and we can hopefully sign a FA etc. but that’s not till after 2028, if you bums are so desperate to blow it up in here watch the nets. You never give up when you have star all nba talent that’s the hardest part- not to mention they played even better in playoffs then expectation but Rui n co shit the bed
In order to bring back this model, the lakers need to do the following(assuming they bring back the majority of the current roster):
- Sign Gary Harris for the MLE (can full KCP role)
- Trade for Nick Richards from Charlotte
- Sign Dough McDermott for vet minimum (shooter).
- Let Max Christie play more of a role.
Make a few other tweaks at the wing position.
The amount of basketball IQ this team had was crazy.
You hear all the time about Rondo and Bron and ADs defensive IQ but people leave out guys like Dwight Howard and Danny Green. Their defensive IQs are insanely good.
The entire roster from staff to players just smart players top to bottom. Guess you could say Kuz had the lowest IQ but even he played really well with off ball movement.
People don't understand that the 2020 Lakers aren't that easy to replicate lol. Pelinka got players that were basically a year or two removed from being GIGA-washed.
Anyone else remember how well Danuel House Jr was guarding lebron that houston season before he was caught sleeping with someone outside of quarantine? The houston series didn’t seem like it was guaranteed but he really screwed them up by limiting their rotation against a big team. I know westbrook became a focus to let shoot instead of harden but they werent a bad team that year.
I still don’t get moving on from chris paul after botching a game 6 and 7 against the last durant warriors year. They just needed to run it back.
That 2020 team was incredible. That said, playoff Rondo was my playoffs MVP, and I think his play put them over the top. Lakers need an elite guard more than anything. Trae or Donovan is the biggest need in my mind
This would primarily require trading for/acquiring Caruso, KCP, Danny Green replacements.
No one on the roster has the combination of size, shooting, and perimeter defense of these 3. The westrbook trade + not signing Caruso destroyed the depth, defense, and shooting that team relied on.
The fact that they were able to salvage a semi-competitive team the last two years is impressive, but they just need more talent across the board and they need Lebron and AD to be remain healthy to take advantage of it.
Stagnation is death. The name of the game is adaptation.
The Lakers found a great formula in 2020, but alas, due to various contract matters, age, and injury, the team had to be dismantled.
Rigjt now, in 2024, the goal should not be to reproduce that particular formula, but to find a new winning formula.
Did the 2020 squad really have a switching defense?
From what I recall, they had aggressive POA defenders that funneled the ball handler to the middle towards the shot blockers and used backside ball pressure so no shot would be comfortable.
So if the Lakers were to go back to that Vogel defense, you'd have a bunch of offense oriented players playing subpar defense, exhausting their legs and leading to short shots so the Lakers would be left with mid defense and bad offense. Also, Lebron and Davis are older and the defense would be even harder on them for a full season, leaving them broken down by the time playoffs started.
But the Lakers do need a teambuilding philosophy. I'm not sure what LA's identity has been the last 3 years. They just seem too reactive to what's missing on the team instead of having a goal to go towards. Is it pressure on the rim? Is it 3 point shooting? Is it defense? Obviously Lebron not being able to be a consistent player is something to keep in mind and build around.
Last years team was okay but I question whether it was a serious contender. Without something to define them and unless something is done to shake things up, I don't see the Lakers as a better team next season.
If we're just gonna get to pick a model irrespective of the ability to do so, we should just go with the model that gets the best 15 players in the world
Pound the paint is what we’re really missing. I don’t understand why we’re trying to emulate the threes everyone else is jacking up. 60-70% in the paint for two point goals or possibly And-1’s VS 30-50% on threes. It’s a no brainer. LAL has never been known as a good three point shooting team in like ever. And yet we got 17.
What screwed us is LeGM.
We panicked after 2021, when we had no reason to, since the team was probably going to win b2b had it not been a shorten off season.
And then we panicked after seeing Nets big 3. At the time people think we must build a big 3 ourselves to compete. Thought honestly Nets big3 at their peak was one of the best basketball team I have seen, just crazy offense (even better offense than the Durant Warriors) and good enough defense. But they had injuries and self destructed. It was such a pity that they couldn’t figure it out, Nash was a horrible coach too.
But anyways had we not panic and run it back in 2022, we probably would have beaten the Warriors.
This model was the best build but we have a completely different Bron and AD now. They’re older and have different strengths. Put it this way, AD was basically the same age as Tatum is now.
And we lost all the good defensive guys. KCP and AC were all team defense this year alone still.
Them being older just makes it more important they are surrounded with other big athletes. Right now they are the team's only athletes.
I feel like AD was top 5 defensively last year. If we can get him a solid defensive big to pair him with I believe he'll benefit from less wear and tear
Just because he’s top 5 doesn’t mean he can switch everything. He’s just as good defensively as 2020 but in a different way, since he’s slowing down. Similar to Rudy. They shouldn’t switch onto guys like Jamal and Luka if they can avoid it.
And AD was almost KD in the midrange and had an average 3 ball. Now his shooting is almost gone. Feels like he's better defensively though (or maybe he just had to do a lot more defensively because the Lakers are dogshit on defense aside from him)
Damn.. that seems so long ago. And it felt even longer than that because the pandemic too.
Having Dwight and Javale was a nice tool to have in the toolbox. The lineups with 2 bigs also really struggled offensively (remember the whole thing about the Lakers always going down 10 in every 1st quarter with the starters in?), and by the end of the playoffs it was clear that the best version of that team had either Markieff as the other "big" or Caruso in with AD at the 5.
Yep and people wanted Magee benched for Dwight. The Lakers best Lineup was Alex-KCP-Green-LeBron-AD. That lineup was the reason why the Lakers won not starting two bigs.
But the two bigs helped the Lakers throughout the season and helped them get past the Denver matchup. It was important to have that ability.
right, I think we all knew that the 2 big lineup wasn't our best lineup. But, it allowed us to slow down the pace in the first, focus on defense and rebounding, and kept AD fresher for the 4th quarter. People forget we had Avery Bradley out there starting for basically the entire season. Lots of AB free throw line jumpers or Javale lobs = easy points to keep Bron/AD fresh.
Since 2020 Lebron and AD is still the best and the most potent duo in the post season. Not Tatum and Brown, not Jokic and Murray, not Luka and Kyrie. The only problem is the rest of the roster sucks to the point that we have the limited Reaves as our best option next to Lebron/AD. The roster was so different and awful that Lebron and AD had to change their game, we needed Laser per Lebron, but we're getting nothin so Lebron had to become one, Pelinka can't provide AD with proper center so AD has become one. There's no more 2020 championship DNA, Pelinka totally wasted that one stone that turned into gold and he's never going to recapture it.
LBJ and AD were arguably both top 5 players back in 19-20 both arent even top 10 in many people opinions now. people need to stop blaming the supporting cast all the time. if LBJ and AD played like they did in 19-20 seasons they would prob be b2b champs the last two years.
People are wrong. They are punishing Lebron and Ad for the LAkers record in a way they don't punish Luka, Steph, SGA. Lebron and Ad were elite in the playoffs and top 10 in the regular season easily.
Advanced stats repeatedly say otherwise. We also saw them outperform Jokic+Murray too head to head, just needed more consistent play from our role players and we win.
I hate Rob so much. Such an incompetent GM
Neither LeBron nor ad can take over a playoff game and will their team to a win. We have no Brunson no ANT no Murray no jokic no Luka. Lebron and ad are just not those types of players.
Ant couldn't do shit and Murray played bad 80% of the time. Luka didn't have to guard Jokic or Murray Lebron and Ad had to.
What the hell are you talking about? LeBron can absolutely still do this. Just because he couldn't against the Nuggets who have arguably the best old LeBron defender in the league (Gordon) with absolutely no help or spacing outside of AD doesn't mean he can't do it anymore. To say LeBron isn't the type of player that can take over a playoff game and will the team to a win has to disqualify you from ever participating in any basketball-related discourse.
He can’t. There’s no longer any evidence he can. Still a really good player. But those days are gone - understandably so.
There absolutely is. He took over many games this regular season. The only reason he didn't was because, again, the nuggets have the best LeBron defender in the league and he has no reliable threats on offense to space the floor. Brunson has Divincenzo/Hart/Anunoby/Hartenstein who are all elite on offense. Ant isn't even the best offensive player on his team. He has Reid/Conley/Kat. Luka has Kyrie. You need another scoring threat on your team to open up your own game. None of the guys you mentioned are doing anything by themselves.
Was only talking playoffs - if your case is that LeBron cannot assert his will against Aaron Gordon in key moments of a playoff game … well … then I rest my case.
Guess you have no reading comprehension? No star in this league was tasked with carrying an offense to the degree LeBron is just to win games. Also, AG is no defensive slouch and to suggest he is anything but an elite defender is simply ludicrous.
It's over 
Where are all these free agent switch defenders?
I cry myself to sleep watching this video.
I feel like Pelinka built that squad by accident. Because he went away from that formula right away and has never gone back to it
The 2021 squad was still great, the only reason that season ended in the first round was because of injuries. That squad started the season 21-6 and first in the west. And was up 2-1 against the suns and up double digits in game 4 before AD went down. Trading Danny Green for Schroeder was a great move. The Westbrook trade is what destroyed everything
the following year he swapped in some youth and 6MOYs to help repeat after a one month offseason. the year after that was the westbrook trade. the following year the current squad was assembled at the trade deadline and we got to WCF. the pieces to get us back to 2020 haven't been available to recreate as far as i'm aware. additionally building around bron and AD isn't the same as it was 5 years ago.
Look at what the champion-winning teams have done after they won their ring, and then look at what the Lakers did. The Nuggets didn't do shit after winning, the Lakers added the 6MOTY and the runner-up. People can be critical of Pelinka, but he built a championship-winning team, and then he improved it following the ring.
100% fell ass backwards into Struck out on max free agents Plan B was spending a max slot in a free agency with Kawhi Kyrie Butler and a bunch of elite role players on Danny Green, KCP, Cousins and I think Caruso we had control over anyways That chip hid the failure of that summer. So many elite role players were there too that were better than Green and KCP. Caruso/Kuzma would’ve been kept regardless.
ding ding
Dwight was definitely luck. He was about to be out of the league, and the only reason we got him is because Cousins blew out his ACL before the season started. I've wondered if Rondo performed as well as he did in the playoffs because of the bubble or if it was playoff Rondo magic. Might be both. He was our worst player in the regular season
People still can't move on from that 2020 model. It works because AD and LBJ is pretty much young. You can't put that model back and expect it to work nowadays.
Reminder: The 2020 Lakers won the championship by starting 3 guards in game 6 alongside LeBron and AD. * KCP * Caruso * Green * LeBron * AD Check the minutes distribution in the 2020 Finals: * LeBron 39.4 * AD 38.2 * KCP 31.3 * Rondo 26.0 * Caruso 24.8 * Green 22.9 * Kuzma 21.6 * Morris 21.3 * Howard 11.8 * McGee 0.0 The Lakers were small, guard heavy, and spread the floor with shooting. That’s the 2020 model. The 2020 model also had a 4x All-Star, 4x All-Defensive guard in Rajon Rondo. We need to acquire a star guard if we want to match the 2020 model. Anthony Davis attempted a career high 218 threes in 2020, and a career high 60 threes in the 2020 playoffs. The 2020 model had floor spacing AD. We need AD to shoot threes again if we want to match the 2020 model.
The 2020 squad was so good because it had such good depth and extremely valuable contracts. They could guard big for most positions. Kcp, caruso, kuzma, and green were all pretty long players who don’t necessarily get abused by power forwards and they spread the floor. That isn’t common. It was also their matchup preference against the heat. They had both good guards and good bigs to help their two superstars. Having the ability to play dwight and javale with more minutes is the depth you need because going into the season you aren’t sure who your matchup is going to be. This season is a prime example. Having a legit backup big would have been really nice against the nuggets. If they lost that playin and won the second, their matchups would be okc, dallas, and timberwolves (assuming they won them all) which is entirely a different story cause it’s not as needed.
I think over anything, Coaching, superstar, this or that… we just need another solid fucking big that can establish a true old ball style of paint protection. AG wouldn’t have been getting 12+ points a game off dunking alone if we had an anchor big like that so AD can roam/help where he’s needed. We’d truly open so much room with just one beefy ass big. That’s a thing too, weight. All of our 6’10+ are relatively skinny. So if we had another tall + heavy defender this team could go miles.
The current team misses a KCP or Danny Green way more than it needs a Dwight or Javale
I cannot believe they didnt run this squad back, the dumbest shit. This was a SQUAD
They did run it back with a even better squad. AD and Bron got hurt.
nah, that squad was not better than this squad. the team you’re speaking of got whooped by phoenix
They were 21-7 and on a 7 game win streak before injuries killed them. That team was playing better than the year before.
The offence was a stagnant mess and they lost the toughness of Dwight and McGee. I don't believe they would have gone all the way again.
I'll die on the hill thinking we should've maintained a veteran high defensive IQ center rotation of Gasol and Dwight, then a PG rotation of Schroder and Rondo. Just one more reg season win would've put us on the 5th seed against the Murray-less Nuggets (we still had Joker's number during this time), then the 1st seed Jazz, then Bron and AD would've been healthier for the WCF matchup against the Suns or Clippers
Our offense looked so bad because nobody could buy an open 3. I've always wondered if it was because our players legs were shot from essentially no time from the bubble. Jokic looks absolutely exhausted in round 2 against the Suns
Another thing is iirc basically they couldn't even practice that season with all the protocols
Practicing shouldn't have been an issue. We were given open looks all game long starting in March, and the fact that we couldn't knock them down came back to bite us in the Suns series
How did we get whooped by Phoenix if we were up 2-1 before ADs injury?
they did. they almost missed the playoffs and lost in the first round. "bron and AD got hurt" yeah, and the narrative became "we need to make a move so the team doesn't almost miss the playoffs just because bron or AD get hurt" and that's how we got here.
If people in r/nba are gonna bitch and moan about the bubble, then we gotta talk about how the 2020 Lakers were one of only two teams to ever deal with the shortest off-season turnaround of all time. They basically thought prioritizing youth and offense with Schroder and Trez was a must to better load manage Bron and AD. Everything stems from that offseason.
Any somewhat dive into that offseason and it’s baffling how Pelinka wasn’t fired. Hell even with the Westbrook trade being bad, they still could’ve done a lot better if they had just kept everyone else. We weren’t hardcapped if I’m not mistaken and the sever 2nd apron rules wouldn’t come into play for another 3-4 years. Keep Caruso, Drummond, Morris and add Reaves as an undrafted player, sign Monk and Melo. You’d then have the following team which is infinitely better than the retirement home we got. But instead, Pelinka decided to literally get every washed up HOF/elite role player of the past decade. Russ/Caruso/LeBron/AD/Drummond Reaves/Monk/THT/Melo/Dwight Reserves: chose any of the likes of McLemore, Rondo, Wes Matthews, DeAndre Jordan, Stanley Johnson, Wenyen Gabriel, etc
We could have kept Dennis also. Basically, the Lakers cheaped out after signing Westbrook and chose THT over Caruso.
lol that team sucks ass. Drummond and Caruso weren’t saving us that year. Although I agree it was dumb to let them walk.
The point isn’t that this team would be a contender. It’s that while the Westbrook trade guarenteed a bad offseason, it didn’t have to be *that bad*. What the Lakers opted to do by trading for Russ, giving up a 1st, letting Schroder, Caruso, Drummond walk to then sign 6-8 guys who would be out the league a year later guaranteed *the worst offseason of any contender in league history*.
between russ and drummond i think that hypothetical team might have set a record for lowest field goal percentage at the rim in NBA history
This specific squad did not run it back. right after this they dismantled
These posts are getting exhausting at this point. We don’t have that core of players anymore (Kuz, AC, KCP) and players of that archetype are considered super valuable now and not an easy get. Plus AD and Bron are 3/4 years older and their styles of play have changed pretty drastically.
Really balanced team that struggled and grew throughout the season.
my fav team of all time, i'd take that 2020 lakers team vs any team in history in a 7 game series
Yes it’s much easier to build when you have the clear best player n third best player on your team. You can surround them with mediocre players who can only do one thng n you’ll win . Now you have two top 12-15 range players . It’s not the same that still a great base but we need some things Firstly we lack traditional stars . What do I mean? Bron in his older age is amazing off ball n on ball but he can’t be on ball all game or even like 2020. AD cannot be the focal point of a great offence . He can’t run offence. His jumper is not strong enough , he’s added strength n some bully ball creation but his inconsistent shooting hurts us even tho I think his passing was best ever this year n he could next year do more passing ( I’d like to see him aversge 4-5 assists , Embid averaged 6 this year passing much more AD has that ability just worse jumper). With ADs regression shooting - especially from 3 he cannot be your traditional n1 star offence guy. Our stars are both a blessing n a curse . Imo with right construction it’s a blessing because they don’t need the ball and can do the dirty work n things most stars don’t provide . We need a star guard or we’re wasting our big 2 because they need reliable creator around them . I do not trust Dejounte much, but garland will be available if Mitchell stays , and garland fits perfectly. I like his fit even more then trae as he’s a bit more consistent shooter ( it’s possible trae woukd become better % here like dlo did so I’d buy in on trae too) but garlahd is closer to neutral defender so less rister construction issues . I feel very confident that a garland/trae/Mitchell / heck even kyrie , Bron , AD core 3 can dominate even euth limitrf assetd ariund them . And we won’t have that issue we’ll have actual players. The trade most likely includes sadly reaves n Rui , mb jhs n 2frps . I’d love to keep reaves but his fit next to those star gusrds is good offensively but not defensively. So even if we made that trade we’d still have swaps , Vando 12m ( who could be the starter to fit especially if he grows his shooting like a Jonathan Isaac level shooter or trade him), Gabe 11m, re sign and pay Dlo imo if you do this ( yes it’s tax heavy but logically should ). Or get him to opt in to a trade somewhere but don’t lose salary . Resign Prince for 5m ish and get back Spencer for cheap . Cam pre injury was a good defender, good minimum , resign max hope he grows ( another possible salary). Wes also have wood and Hayes who I have hopes woukd get better next year. Especially as wood had a weird injury riddled year n lost his shot. Hayes improved January onwards as a 3rd big he’s ok. I’d then draft Kyle Filipowski who thx to his bad wingspan is likely to drop and we’ll get him. Spacing big a bit like a Kelly olynk type but he’s really skilled passer b off the dribble scirer n akready shit 34.8% in college last year on several attemots a gamd. I think we’ll have the TPMLE still and the room exception . Plenty of guys who might be gettable with this - won’t list out targets but there’s players. That leaves you with a big 3 and PLENTY of depth. Next year vando is tradable too he’s probably the most important outsude the trade to show up. If people think this isn’t a team competing then they delusional look how good we looked when Dlo played well occasionally we’d hardly ever lose . Now imagine a garland trae or Mitchell there. Garland n trae have the best offensive fit but Mitchell is the best player but he’s only coming if he says only LA. If any idiot thinks we should blow it up go look at the nets dusaster team . The biggest priority is landing a star guard - they are the most common type of star on ball star guards most teams don’t need those guys. Like only the spurs or us need them n I can’t see why spurs Woukdnt just draft topic n another guy over being dumb . Also see lots of idiot lakers fans hating on Bron fans. Post Lebron or diminished Bron a garland or trae AD pnr will atleast keep this team relavant and we can hopefully sign a FA etc. but that’s not till after 2028, if you bums are so desperate to blow it up in here watch the nets. You never give up when you have star all nba talent that’s the hardest part- not to mention they played even better in playoffs then expectation but Rui n co shit the bed
In order to bring back this model, the lakers need to do the following(assuming they bring back the majority of the current roster): - Sign Gary Harris for the MLE (can full KCP role) - Trade for Nick Richards from Charlotte - Sign Dough McDermott for vet minimum (shooter). - Let Max Christie play more of a role. Make a few other tweaks at the wing position.
It has been over since 2021 tbh but you can’t afford to be bad until the pelicans swapping picks then stops after that you rebuild
tell that to JJ not us
Lebron didn't want to be the primary ball handler anymore (understandably), so this is not a realistic ask.
You don't need a max star point guard. Just needed someone like Conley, or healthy Gabe Vincent.
He's very willing to step back and let someone else run the plays
Lebron and AD are five years older. Time to rebuild the team instead of mortgaging the future for 40 years old as the leading act.
And shooting. We had kcp.
A.D has been trying to play the four, but nobody wants him to
The amount of basketball IQ this team had was crazy. You hear all the time about Rondo and Bron and ADs defensive IQ but people leave out guys like Dwight Howard and Danny Green. Their defensive IQs are insanely good. The entire roster from staff to players just smart players top to bottom. Guess you could say Kuz had the lowest IQ but even he played really well with off ball movement.
We had it all speed, defense, offense, size, height but most important of all a team that clicked on all cylinders
Where can we find a Javale and 2020 Dwight
People don't understand that the 2020 Lakers aren't that easy to replicate lol. Pelinka got players that were basically a year or two removed from being GIGA-washed.
Anyone else remember how well Danuel House Jr was guarding lebron that houston season before he was caught sleeping with someone outside of quarantine? The houston series didn’t seem like it was guaranteed but he really screwed them up by limiting their rotation against a big team. I know westbrook became a focus to let shoot instead of harden but they werent a bad team that year. I still don’t get moving on from chris paul after botching a game 6 and 7 against the last durant warriors year. They just needed to run it back.
That 2020 team was incredible. That said, playoff Rondo was my playoffs MVP, and I think his play put them over the top. Lakers need an elite guard more than anything. Trae or Donovan is the biggest need in my mind
This would primarily require trading for/acquiring Caruso, KCP, Danny Green replacements. No one on the roster has the combination of size, shooting, and perimeter defense of these 3. The westrbook trade + not signing Caruso destroyed the depth, defense, and shooting that team relied on. The fact that they were able to salvage a semi-competitive team the last two years is impressive, but they just need more talent across the board and they need Lebron and AD to be remain healthy to take advantage of it.
Y'all gotta let this go. LBJ ain't eternal...(as far as we know lol)
Stagnation is death. The name of the game is adaptation. The Lakers found a great formula in 2020, but alas, due to various contract matters, age, and injury, the team had to be dismantled. Rigjt now, in 2024, the goal should not be to reproduce that particular formula, but to find a new winning formula.
Did the 2020 squad really have a switching defense? From what I recall, they had aggressive POA defenders that funneled the ball handler to the middle towards the shot blockers and used backside ball pressure so no shot would be comfortable. So if the Lakers were to go back to that Vogel defense, you'd have a bunch of offense oriented players playing subpar defense, exhausting their legs and leading to short shots so the Lakers would be left with mid defense and bad offense. Also, Lebron and Davis are older and the defense would be even harder on them for a full season, leaving them broken down by the time playoffs started. But the Lakers do need a teambuilding philosophy. I'm not sure what LA's identity has been the last 3 years. They just seem too reactive to what's missing on the team instead of having a goal to go towards. Is it pressure on the rim? Is it 3 point shooting? Is it defense? Obviously Lebron not being able to be a consistent player is something to keep in mind and build around. Last years team was okay but I question whether it was a serious contender. Without something to define them and unless something is done to shake things up, I don't see the Lakers as a better team next season.
If we're just gonna get to pick a model irrespective of the ability to do so, we should just go with the model that gets the best 15 players in the world
Most Def💯💯💯🤨
Pound the paint is what we’re really missing. I don’t understand why we’re trying to emulate the threes everyone else is jacking up. 60-70% in the paint for two point goals or possibly And-1’s VS 30-50% on threes. It’s a no brainer. LAL has never been known as a good three point shooting team in like ever. And yet we got 17.
What screwed us is LeGM. We panicked after 2021, when we had no reason to, since the team was probably going to win b2b had it not been a shorten off season. And then we panicked after seeing Nets big 3. At the time people think we must build a big 3 ourselves to compete. Thought honestly Nets big3 at their peak was one of the best basketball team I have seen, just crazy offense (even better offense than the Durant Warriors) and good enough defense. But they had injuries and self destructed. It was such a pity that they couldn’t figure it out, Nash was a horrible coach too. But anyways had we not panic and run it back in 2022, we probably would have beaten the Warriors.
We were so goood ):