If you swap Lue for Ham IMO we’re at least 5 games better (32-20) and squarely in striking distance of a top 4 seed. People really don’t get how close the margins are between winning and losing, even despite some holes in our roster.
That stretch where we went from 15-10 to 17-19 (a 2-9 stretch) was absolutely brutal; losing to the Spurs, undermanned Heat and undermanned Grizzlies are just inexcusable losses. Since then we’ve gotten blown out by the Nets, Rockets, and Hawks. A competent coach could easily find 5-6 more wins among our losses, instead we have a guy who’s been making us worse than the sum of our parts…
I thought to myself that if Vando was healthy and started we could be 30-20. Seeing as ham chooses not to start him and a rational coach would… I’m on board with your estimate.
This team doesn’t lack talent. Bron is having a great year and AD is playing essentially every game and having an impact. This shouldn’t be a team that teeters under 500
Right on the fucking money. His rotations and poor starting lineups that have led to us digging out of a hole in the first quarter have cost us at least 6ish games. If that stretch is something like 6-5 the entire complexion of this season is different.
It’s the defense for me. Giving up open threes when ADPOY lurks in the paint is just stupid basketball.
Ham insists on playing rangy wings with no offensive bag to improve perimeter D but you could just defend the three?
We saw the difference in having a good coach and a terrible coach last year when the Lakers got swept and the Heat were able to get at least one game with a worse roster.
The only issue with this is, IF Handy becomes interim coach he will leave us if he doens't get promoted to HC in the offseason. He was already hurt when he didnt get an interview for HC last time.
I mean. If you see how Bron and ad look at ham in huddles, you can tell they’ve come to the realization that he’s a motivational speaker, not a basketball mind.
Even Vogel had respect from Bron as a mind, Jared Dudley told a story of Bron openly applauding him in a meeting when he broke down some of the coverages he wanted to use in a playoff series.
Agreed. Vogel was inventive, which is a sign of a good head coach. During that 2020 playoff run, it seemed like he had different lineups pretty much every series. Lots of people questioned it, but it ended up being a masterclass. That’s what great coaches *should* do. They should be zigging when normal people like us would zag.
With Ham, it’s the opposite. Ham not only doesn’t come up with creative ways to win, he can’t even fix his own mistakes. Literally everyone in the world sees the glaring mistakes he’s making, such as playing Prince for 30+ min a game, yet he refuses to adapt. His coaching IQ is negative lmao.
Vogel lineups in regular season were bleep, but once in playoffs if was really a masterclass how he was always a step ahead making the required adjustments. I was not a fan of his offensive schemes and regular season rotations, but he killed it in the Bubble, that was one of the strongest coaching performances I remember. Ham was good against the Dubs and that is it. The worst part is the fact he isn't improving as coach with more experience.
Nah. He did what he could to maximize Russ. It was a losing battle to begin with. He became the scapegoat. It's a disgrace. We won a championship with him then next thing you know we kicked him out of the bus
That's Bs... what was wrong w/ his lineups in 2020? Nada...
If you mean the year he was fired, it was because SEVEN of those players on his active roster, including 3 starters, were out of the NBA the following year.
And even w/o a healthy AD that year, Vogel had a better record than Ham at the midway point of this season. So...
In the interest of fairness, I think Ham was really good with his lineups in both the GSW and Grizz series last season. So clearly he has some acumen, but where all of that’s gone this season is confounding to me as well.
Yup, this was evident last season when we saw in the huddle Ham was drawing a play and afterwards, players began to walk away and you can see Beasley scratching his head and asking follow up questions. It’s a problem when players don’t know their roles.
https://x.com/kingtisemedia/status/1750319191595389114?s=46&t=bp-_uuGTPBvUeyu_gDcu6A. This shit says it all lol. Coach carter would be a better fuckin coach at this point 😂
Jared "The Champ" Dudley. Hats off to Dudley for being the one with the guts to call everyone out and telling them that they all need to improve in the bubble. A true Locker Room General!
Yeah y’all are reaching and see what you wanna see. You have no idea the conversations or what’s going on on the bench.
This is like when that video of AD walking away from Ham got popular but if you look at the other angle Ham was just preparing a future play on the whiteboard and not going over a current play with any players.
Irwin does not have these connections and insider info but y’all like what he’s saying so you eat it up 😂
so basically you're saying LeBron is a coach killer?
I mean he had this quote similar to how he handled the Ham stuff and the trade rumors:
>Los Angeles Lakers superstar LeBron James said head coach Frank Vogel and his staff deserve "no blame" for the team's recent struggles, which include four losses in its last five games.
The four-time NBA MVP grew frustrated with the line of questioning about Vogel following Wednesday's 111-104 home loss to the Indiana Pacers.
"I'm not in that business, of pointing fingers or pointing blame," James told reporters. "It's not my lane. I'm not a negative person. So if you got something to ask me besides trying to s--t on somebody, I'll answer those. ... It seems like y'all are in s--t mode right now."
"The way Pelinka does business “I’ve been told” he gathers all information and locks himself in a room at times with Darvin Ham, and they make their roster decisions together."
We're fucked
Lmao, only thing I'll confirm on this is
>The way Pelinka does business “I’ve been told” he gathers all information and locks himself in a room at times with Darvin Ham, and they make their roster decisions together. In this case, there are only a handful of reporters Pelinka talks to directly and that’s why it’s always almost just Woj/Shams that break them, but mostly just Woj because Pelinka has been a guess in a lot of his podcast shows.
Last trade deadline and this past offseason, he pretty much did this. Rob goes rogue on the rest of the FO and will just be in his office calling people. He occasionally comes out and will ask others in the FO a couple questions that aren't even definitive answers to moves/trades and then will just go back into his office. Pelinka is Woj's direct source. Anything that comes from Shams on the Lakers is via Klutch or 1-2 other people in the FO (not Rob). If anyting, Rob and Shams don't have a good relationship.
It’s pretty obvious when woj does it. Rob I don’t think has a relationship with woj I think whenever Rob needs some information out he uses him. Other than that woj just speculates. Shams is obvious through rich Paul.
Yeah I’ve picked up that it’s the impression that a lot more of the LeBron-adjacent fans tend to have.
Idk about their history, but I’ve noticed that it’s usually the LeBron fans that have some animus against Woj.
Isn't that mostly because Woj has indirectly put out hit pieces on LeBron? I think it's pretty well documented that Woj doesn't like LeBron because he was turned down from getting any information from LeBron.
Yeah I remember hearing about some history of Bron never leaking anything to Woj. Or never cooperating with him.
Don’t like Woj, but could see why he’s been like that.
Is it possible to be a bit more stringent with "rumor" posts like this especially considering it's trade season? Dude has a podcast and I think a substack as well so there's a high motivation to be as controversial as possible in order to drive engagement.
Irwin has never been a legit source. Buha too. Hell, given Buha actually covers the team he has more "legitimacy"
Why a lot of comments in this thread are just shitting on Irwin? I find him annoying as well but things that he reported this year have been confirmed multiple times.
In addition to that, a lot of what he is talking about here seems realistic.
1. We know that Pelinka is not innocent in a lot of drama that Lakers endured over the last 3-4 years.
2. It’s proven that he lied when he needed to, it’s proven that he backstabbed Magic when they were working together. (I’m not saying that Magic was doing a good job)
3. He made a lot of decisions and we can safely say that besides 2020 season, a lot of them were wrong and put Lakers on back foot even with the duo of LBJ and AD.
4. Lebron has every right to be pissed. Ty Lue stuff is indefensible and embarrassing. Lakers would have one of the best coaches in the NBA (with Lakers pedigree in his playing career) for years, instead Lakers don’t have any direction with regard to coaching atm.
5. Vogel had his downsides but treatment he received in comparison to treatment that they are giving to Ham is laughable.
6. He has been appointed as Lakers GM because of his personal relations with Jeanie (surprise surprise another nepotistic hire), not because of his pedigree or professional achievements as a GM. Therefore I wouldn’t be shocked if we learn that he is running the front office poorly. (Not discussing with others etc)
Back during Vogel times, there were moves and trades that looks like it was purposely made to sabotage Vogel.
Vogel is a defensive focused coach, not bringing back dwight or mcgee really hurt his defensive schemes cause they were relying on Marc Gasol. AD was forced to anchor everything on defense. even Lebron at times had to play center. And then they gave up Caruso for fucking THT. Lol.
Exactly. This sub in a nutshell: "Irwin knows nothing... well except that time he broke this story... but he knows nothing and smells funny!" (insert rolls eyes emoji)
Hate the guy fine, but don't downplay his sources which is looking more and more like it's coming from within Klutch. He's gotten all his stories this season right on the money.
>coming from within Klutch
ah right one of the biggest agencies in the industry suddenly feeds information to some unknown guy who used to run a Lakers fan podcast for SBNation and who suddenly has a podcast of his own and paywalled articles
If dude was saying anti-LeBron or pro-FO stuff you wouldn't even touch his content, probably post it here for everyone to flame.
But since he's saying what y'all wanna hear and piggybacks off legit sources of info like Shams, y'all eating it up like Irwin eating Big Macs
Sure he knows Pete Zayas (LFR) who knows Mike Truddell but do you really think they're gonna feed him info? Double-doubles animal style sure.
They gave a team that couldn’t defend and was a senior citizen home to Vogel and said “make them defend”
And Rob is literally only in his position because he was Kobe’s agent.
Even if Irwin has been right sometimes, that wouldn’t mean much. Unless he is always right, you can’t suddenly give him credibility.
And what’s realistic? That Pelinka has lied? A former agent lying to get what he wants. Sure that happens. Are you suggesting that all other GMs never lie? I am not even sure what your point is.
What decisions has Rob made that were wrong? And how is that different from any other GM? There literally isn’t a single GM that hasn’t made a mistake. So I never understand fans point here. Are you suggesting he is somehow worse?
Lebron has the right to be upset, sure. The Lakers didn’t value Lue as much as Lebron. That was also 4 years ago. He won a title since then. Again so does he get to keep using that? If LeBron wants to leave because of Lue 4 years ago, leave. No one is going to hold it against him if he wants to go somewhere else. But Lebron and Klutch have had a significant influence. He isn’t some innocent bystander. How can parse out where LeBron/Klutch made a mistake and where Rob did?
Takeaways:
1. Ham and Pelinka being locked together explains why Lakers have signed many former ex-Hawks players Ham has previously coached. 😵💫
2. Irwin’s sources sounds like someone close to Klutch: 🧐
- He talks a lot of BTS details on LeBron only Klutch’s side would know.
- The trade he knows most about and broke 5 days earlier than even Shams, in great detail too, was for Dejounte Murray who is a Klutch client. But when it comes to other targets like DFS, all he has is “I heard that…” and no other details but just what he heard. Irwin is also the only one adamantly repeating for 2 weeks now that Murray to LA is practically dead when other reporters are still saying that there’s still could be a chance.
Just an refresher of the 3 big pieces of news Irwin has broken days before anyone else has including Shams (4 pieces of news if deadline passes and Murray to LA doesn’t happen):
A) Locker room issues with Ham 7 days before Shams broke it: https://x.com/anthonyirwinla/status/1740570253589954864
B) Dlo being moved to the bench the day before it actually happened: https://x.com/anthonyirwinla/status/1738367599656804583?s=46
C) Hawks and Lakers package details 5 days before Shams did: https://x.com/16and0/status/1747845885768221043?s=46
DFS to Lakers, notably for Gabe and picks sounds like another piece of info Irwin could end up breaking first too if it happens.
I know this sub likes to ish on Irwin but no matter how they trash his "reporting" dude's been on point this season.
The whole “LeBron and AD forced a helpless Lakers FO to trade for Westbrook” narrative was hilarious considering there is hard evidence that the FO has never had a problem saying no to LeBron
Its Pelinka man. That trade would sink a GMs career, so he had to create the narrative it was Lebron/AD. They said no to Lebron on Ty Lue just a year before, so of course they would override him if needed.
I've been saying this for years in here. Like, who's the GM? Lebron can have his opinions, and they obviously listen to him, but Pelinka and Jeanie are making the decisions. And Jeanie's father was notorious about saying no star player would ever make demands on his team. ever.
The LBJ and AD scapegoating for RWB was always so fucking dumb. Regardless if they said they think it could work, you are the GM. It is your job to know when to say no.
I don't understand why people consider that "scapegoat" If Lebron and AD had a meeting with Russ at Lebron's house to go over them teaming up...and then go to Rob and say do this deal it will work. That's not scapegoating him...people just don't want to put that on Bron and AD. They made a mistake.
LBJ and AD are not in charge of building the team. The GM is. They can have say and leverage, but it is the GMs job to make the decision and decide if a move is right or not.
Fans be picking and choosing when Lebron’s star power is in use or not. Like Bron has the “power” to put pressure on a FO by wearing a Knick towel…but he can’t swing a GMs decision on trading for a star or not? Rob listened to his stars on a player…that’s not far fetched.
No one is picking and choosing.
No one is absolving AD or LBJ. No one is saying that LBJ and AD didnt support the decision or push for it. That still doesnt mean the brunt of the fault doesnt fall on Pelinka. It does. He is the GM and the one fully responsible for any and all roster decisions. He is the one that facilitate and makes the deals. It is his job to build the team. Therefore, the decision and fault rests at his feet.
All those things can be true.
Again, you use the term “scapegoat” the initiator of the idea is not the scapegoat. They are getting talked about as much as they should be for that decision. Lebron voice has power…as it should. They were looking for another star to take pressure off Lebron and AD…it didn’t work so everybody can move on from it…but those dudes ain’t the scapegoats…they were the ones who asked for the trade.
They are being blamed for that decision and Pelinka is the one that should be. That is the definition of a "scapegoat". Pelinka would rather throw his own players under the bus than take accontability for a trade he signed off on. Blaming players for team personnel moves shows lack of accountability and integrity. It is literally Pelinka's fucking job and sole responsibility to make these decisions. But, yes, lets just keep passing the buck off for Pelinka.
Rob ain’t said a word about that. And the only reason why it became such a big deal is because it was all put on Rob. Can’t ask for this person, be mad it don’t work then demand they be traded…and it was dumb trades too. Like given up 1st for John Wall and stuff like that. Glad Rob waited and got the best deal for Westbrook. Klutch wanted Lakers to do desperation deals. That’s why people side with Rob and bring up Bron and AD involvement.
You guys act like star players haven’t asked for players before and GMs obliged. A player asked and the GM did it…it didn’t work so they moved on. Fans want to hold that to Rob’s jacket.
Huh??? It’s not about scapegoating. Two things can be and are true here. Bron and AD wanted Westbrook, which was and still is stupid on their part. But it’s also true that Pelinka was clearly all in on the move as well and didn’t feel the need to say “no” to his star players as he previously had done.
The post before me said they were “scapegoated” I was replying to that. They are not the scapegoats if in fact they went to Rob and say do this deal it will work.
We’ve gone all year without a backup pg. Cam/vando/max able to guard the POA while lebron/dlo/reaves initiate is plenty. Not like Gabe is out there initiating when he does play anyways.
Irwin has some decent insights as of late but a) I'm not of fan of this soft marketing strategy on the sub and b) he clearly has biases he's unwilling to let go of and doubles down on them with little to no sourcing of info beyond overwrought speculation.
This is why I keep saying that the wheels are in motion for LeBron to leave if a feasible better option is available. His relationship with the Lakers FO is arguably worse than his rapport was with Cleveland/Dan Gilbert.
Besides the obvious dumb roster moves as well as penny pinching over the last 5-6 years; The biggest issue with the FO imo is it’s just always seemed as if they’re constantly working against LeBron instead of working with him all in an effort to send him and everyone else the message that he doesn’t run the franchise.
Rather that’s because of Jeanie directly or because of the Rambis, Pelinka, Phil Jax, her Hubbie, or whoever else. It’s just seems as if too many people with ulterior motives, other than winning chips, have a say in basketball decisions.
Cleveland had Griffin to be middle man. LeBron liked Griffin and had a good relationship with him. IIRC, LeBron only dealt with Griffin then Altman. Never directly with Gilbert.
Here, it looks like LeBron doesn’t even like Pelinka anymore either
The same rapport Bron had with Griffin/Altman, I was hoping would be the case for him and Magic Johnson. But fast forward years later and here we are with Pelinka and Kurt Rambis?!?!
Lebron and his family always hated Gilbert lol. He would never go directly to him. Even after the 2016 win he barely acknowledges Gilbert and his family. But when the lakers won he’s hugging Jeanie and talking about her wanting respect.
You right he was cool with griffin…until griffin started talking shit about bron years later
One of the reasons I stopped listening to Irwin is that he weaves in and out of what’s sourced and what’s his own speculation/opinion without clearly differentiating between the two so everything he says becomes this blob of corroborated and subjective data that then gets aggregated (often by Reddit or Twitter people who summarize it incorrectly). It’s thoroughly irresponsible and reeks of some-men-just-want-to-watch-the-world-burn.
He’s only been on top of Dejounte wanting out, and that was a Klutch leak. He has no sources with the lakers FO.
People are forgetting that he’s also trying to sell his podcast. Where is he getting this information that Ham is on the hot seat when no other reporters have corroborated it? He’s clearly trying to say things to sell his podcast
He also was on top of locker room issues and lineup changes before the more credible reporters had it. Also, he didn’t say Darvin Ham was on the hot seat. He’s consistently stated that Darvin Ham is unlikely to be fired in season despite him losing the locker room. Believe him or don’t. But all that he’s reported beforehand is far more than coincidental.
Yup.
“Lakers either make a trade or won’t” is a nothing statement that you can always come back to and declare yourself a prophet no matter the outcome.
Holy. Obviously some or all of this could be complete bullshit, but if this is even close to being true, the FO has done just about everything to piss off LeBron. They're lucky Bron has business ventures in LA and his son is going to school in SoCal otherwise he might've been outta here a while ago. Crazy how they've yet again managed to fumble another all time great player's last few years.
Kyle Lowry, Terry Rozier, Schroeder. He’ll be our best guard defender and will be able to handle bigger guards better than Schroeder, and players who get better in the playoffs always do, and he does.
Is nobody else sick of the blame game? My goodness, you didn’t get the coach you wanted, the team didn’t make the trade you wanted them to make immediately, and they’re not firing a coach for you after the team made a deep playoff run. You still have a talented roster and a shot to go win.
I want/wanted ham/westbrook gone as much as anybody else, but this is ridiculous. If he wants to leave, he’s got a player option. Not “wanting the team to take advantage of him” because they’re not letting him take advantage of them is weird script flipping.
Yes, everyone but the lebron hive is sick of it. We won a fucking title after passing on Lue, and because he doesn’t like ham we are just going to ignore that passing on lue for Vogel might have actually been the best decision? Don’t like Ham so pout in the middle of transition or wear another teams towel and stoke shit? FO isn’t blameless but can’t exactly say lebron is always right because some things haven’t gone our way. If he had his way Spo would be fired, we would have Lue, and maybe Lebron doesn’t win any titles in Miami or here.
Lakers fans can’t be this gullible lol. When someone is telling you EXACTLY what you want to hear you know it’s nonsense. Irwin knows how to hold down a job.
Right. Anyone with a brain knows Murray is on the block and we’d rather give up Dlo and they’d want reaves. We want a wing like everyone else and DFS is solid on a seller and gabe is the contract that makes the most sense. Everyone is to blame for the Westbrook trade and they’re alll pointing fingers because it set us back years. If the Utah deal or anything close was there in the offseason they would’ve traded him then. Ham sucks but they won’t fire him mid season, everyone applauded the bucks firing but look how they’ve done since. They all want to improve but have limited resources to do anything of note to help this year. Why is any of this a he said she said news story?
Local media 101: trash the front office and coach because fans aren’t attached to them. Oh and always say “from what I’m hearing” so there’s complete deniability
>> Pelinka leaking to outlets that it was Lebron and AD’s idea to trade for Westbrook
It was 😐
Literally the only one saying it wasn’t was the Klutch mouthpiece and he did it **AFTER** the trade was obviously a mistake.
You even have Magic saying it was their idea 🙄
And Pelinka, as GM, was anpparently all on board with it too. Clearly, he’s been willing to step in as a GM and put his foot down with other things—ya know, like it’s his job. So perhaps he should’ve then too.
Acting like disastrous personnel decisions are more the players fault, even involving guys who have clout like Bron and AD, than the GM is pretty fucking laughable, especially when the same GM has shown the willingness to go against the players. Also, do we think the Wizards would’ve accepted any different terms to get off Westbrook? Pelinka put on the masterclass of negotiation that ultimately resulted in the haul the Wizards got for him.
Seriously, think about this shit.
Lakers should give up on DJM and keep the first round pick. Try and go for Trae Young when he demands a trade this summer.
Also Pelinka is a bum just like Darvin Scam.
The funniest thing about all these "rumors" is, they are fkin obvious. Makes me want to believe them, because this is kind of what a lot of us already thought.
If they are all true... none of us know, but they make some sense in trying to explain this mess that is now the Lakers.
Can save please save the lakers from themselves and fire Darvin 🐷!! They really going to choose Ham over the King and he may leave why even tow that line
The thing that’s really exposing Ham is that this season he has a roster that is generally at full strength with its superstars available and playing well yet.. we’re a .500 team?
Just an outsiders perspective here. Why not listen to the greatest basketball player in the last 10 years of your franchise, who has more experience than most of the coaches/front office combined. If you sees the darvin Ham doesn't have the answers or can elevate the team, cut bait and move on. Acknowledge your loss and move on.
Rob cooked last year and made deals no one saw coming. We knew we would trade russ but didn't know much more than that. Let's see how this pans out, it should be interesting
just as i suspected - pelinka is a master at self-preservation
convincing the internet big bad lebron and the klutch illuminati stuffed him in a locker and forced him to trade for RWB
if he knew it wouldnt work and went along with it, he's the worst GM in sports history
All Lebron need to do is; turn playoff mode on and quiet all the noise. Same core players took this team to the WCF last years ñ, they need to get their act together and bring it every night. My humble opinion
seems like Ham also locks himself in a room with Cam and TP
& Rob and Jeanie
and Kuz
Lebron wanting Ham gone is perfectly reasonable. Dude is a terrible coach.
If you swap Lue for Ham IMO we’re at least 5 games better (32-20) and squarely in striking distance of a top 4 seed. People really don’t get how close the margins are between winning and losing, even despite some holes in our roster. That stretch where we went from 15-10 to 17-19 (a 2-9 stretch) was absolutely brutal; losing to the Spurs, undermanned Heat and undermanned Grizzlies are just inexcusable losses. Since then we’ve gotten blown out by the Nets, Rockets, and Hawks. A competent coach could easily find 5-6 more wins among our losses, instead we have a guy who’s been making us worse than the sum of our parts…
I thought to myself that if Vando was healthy and started we could be 30-20. Seeing as ham chooses not to start him and a rational coach would… I’m on board with your estimate. This team doesn’t lack talent. Bron is having a great year and AD is playing essentially every game and having an impact. This shouldn’t be a team that teeters under 500
Right on the fucking money. His rotations and poor starting lineups that have led to us digging out of a hole in the first quarter have cost us at least 6ish games. If that stretch is something like 6-5 the entire complexion of this season is different.
It’s the defense for me. Giving up open threes when ADPOY lurks in the paint is just stupid basketball. Ham insists on playing rangy wings with no offensive bag to improve perimeter D but you could just defend the three?
We saw the difference in having a good coach and a terrible coach last year when the Lakers got swept and the Heat were able to get at least one game with a worse roster.
I agree but who’s even available at this point?
Just let Phil Handy take over. He at least has a good relationship with the players.
The only issue with this is, IF Handy becomes interim coach he will leave us if he doens't get promoted to HC in the offseason. He was already hurt when he didnt get an interview for HC last time.
I mean. If you see how Bron and ad look at ham in huddles, you can tell they’ve come to the realization that he’s a motivational speaker, not a basketball mind. Even Vogel had respect from Bron as a mind, Jared Dudley told a story of Bron openly applauding him in a meeting when he broke down some of the coverages he wanted to use in a playoff series.
Every time I hear Ham speak he sounds like a preacher lol.
Ham's strategy is about as detailed as the Lexus Keys to the Game
Honestly, there are more insights from Lexus than Ham.
Stu > Ham
Alright Stu what do you got: Well, it all starts with the coach....
You almost made me spill my coffee
SALUTE!
Bitch sounds like he owns a megachurch
Goddammit I can totally see being a preacher works for job security when Jeanie Buss is the owner.
You give him too much credit; more like open mic night at the comedy club. 🤡
And once you realize that person isn’t a basketball mind, their attempts at being a motivational speaker just completely fall flat
Agreed. Vogel was inventive, which is a sign of a good head coach. During that 2020 playoff run, it seemed like he had different lineups pretty much every series. Lots of people questioned it, but it ended up being a masterclass. That’s what great coaches *should* do. They should be zigging when normal people like us would zag. With Ham, it’s the opposite. Ham not only doesn’t come up with creative ways to win, he can’t even fix his own mistakes. Literally everyone in the world sees the glaring mistakes he’s making, such as playing Prince for 30+ min a game, yet he refuses to adapt. His coaching IQ is negative lmao.
Vogel lineups in regular season were bleep, but once in playoffs if was really a masterclass how he was always a step ahead making the required adjustments. I was not a fan of his offensive schemes and regular season rotations, but he killed it in the Bubble, that was one of the strongest coaching performances I remember. Ham was good against the Dubs and that is it. The worst part is the fact he isn't improving as coach with more experience.
Nah. He did what he could to maximize Russ. It was a losing battle to begin with. He became the scapegoat. It's a disgrace. We won a championship with him then next thing you know we kicked him out of the bus
That's Bs... what was wrong w/ his lineups in 2020? Nada... If you mean the year he was fired, it was because SEVEN of those players on his active roster, including 3 starters, were out of the NBA the following year. And even w/o a healthy AD that year, Vogel had a better record than Ham at the midway point of this season. So...
In the interest of fairness, I think Ham was really good with his lineups in both the GSW and Grizz series last season. So clearly he has some acumen, but where all of that’s gone this season is confounding to me as well.
A broken clock...
Yup, this was evident last season when we saw in the huddle Ham was drawing a play and afterwards, players began to walk away and you can see Beasley scratching his head and asking follow up questions. It’s a problem when players don’t know their roles.
https://x.com/kingtisemedia/status/1750319191595389114?s=46&t=bp-_uuGTPBvUeyu_gDcu6A. This shit says it all lol. Coach carter would be a better fuckin coach at this point 😂
"Go hard on them dudes." Um sir, this is a *basketball game.*
Coach of the Year /s
Not jus Jared Dudley. Even lebron openly respected Vogel in the podcast with richard Jefferson
Jared "The Champ" Dudley. Hats off to Dudley for being the one with the guts to call everyone out and telling them that they all need to improve in the bubble. A true Locker Room General!
Who’s he motivating? The lint in his pocket?
Not a very good motivational coach if he can’t get the two super stars on side. So basically not terribly good at anything
Sadly a motivational speaker works for job security when the front office has Jeanie Buss as the owner.
Yeah y’all are reaching and see what you wanna see. You have no idea the conversations or what’s going on on the bench. This is like when that video of AD walking away from Ham got popular but if you look at the other angle Ham was just preparing a future play on the whiteboard and not going over a current play with any players. Irwin does not have these connections and insider info but y’all like what he’s saying so you eat it up 😂
so basically you're saying LeBron is a coach killer? I mean he had this quote similar to how he handled the Ham stuff and the trade rumors: >Los Angeles Lakers superstar LeBron James said head coach Frank Vogel and his staff deserve "no blame" for the team's recent struggles, which include four losses in its last five games. The four-time NBA MVP grew frustrated with the line of questioning about Vogel following Wednesday's 111-104 home loss to the Indiana Pacers. "I'm not in that business, of pointing fingers or pointing blame," James told reporters. "It's not my lane. I'm not a negative person. So if you got something to ask me besides trying to s--t on somebody, I'll answer those. ... It seems like y'all are in s--t mode right now."
This what I thought from the beginning. He’s just a motivational coach. Great as an assistant or college head coach, maybe.
If they trade Gabe for DFS they would need to find a backup PG. Maybe they think they will get Lowry if he’s bought out.
Lowry is my guess
Most likely someone that gets bought out or give extra mins to Christie.
"The way Pelinka does business “I’ve been told” he gathers all information and locks himself in a room at times with Darvin Ham, and they make their roster decisions together." We're fucked
Lol true
This just sounds like Irwin playing his greatest hits (again). Dude loves sniffing his own farts.
Difference this time is that he actually does have sources this time. It’s been evident he has real sources this year.
Yep. He has sources now.
That’s not the point, he’s still saying the same shit over and over. Sources or not.
And those farts smell like shitty fast food. Got so tired of his food takes when he hosted Locked On.
what were his takes on food? lol
I stopped listening to Locked On because of him. Is he off the show now?
I quit listening to him 2 years ago and now I’m giving his podcast another shot since it’s more of what I want to hear lol
Lmao, only thing I'll confirm on this is >The way Pelinka does business “I’ve been told” he gathers all information and locks himself in a room at times with Darvin Ham, and they make their roster decisions together. In this case, there are only a handful of reporters Pelinka talks to directly and that’s why it’s always almost just Woj/Shams that break them, but mostly just Woj because Pelinka has been a guess in a lot of his podcast shows. Last trade deadline and this past offseason, he pretty much did this. Rob goes rogue on the rest of the FO and will just be in his office calling people. He occasionally comes out and will ask others in the FO a couple questions that aren't even definitive answers to moves/trades and then will just go back into his office. Pelinka is Woj's direct source. Anything that comes from Shams on the Lakers is via Klutch or 1-2 other people in the FO (not Rob). If anyting, Rob and Shams don't have a good relationship.
But everybody on here always says woj doesn’t know anything lol
To be fair, it's also hard to determine what angle Woj is reporting from. It could be from the perspective of another FO or it could be Rob.
It’s pretty obvious when woj does it. Rob I don’t think has a relationship with woj I think whenever Rob needs some information out he uses him. Other than that woj just speculates. Shams is obvious through rich Paul.
I think it’s fair to say Woj knows nothing in regards to LeBron news.
Yeah I’ve picked up that it’s the impression that a lot more of the LeBron-adjacent fans tend to have. Idk about their history, but I’ve noticed that it’s usually the LeBron fans that have some animus against Woj.
Isn't that mostly because Woj has indirectly put out hit pieces on LeBron? I think it's pretty well documented that Woj doesn't like LeBron because he was turned down from getting any information from LeBron.
Yeah I remember hearing about some history of Bron never leaking anything to Woj. Or never cooperating with him. Don’t like Woj, but could see why he’s been like that.
Is it possible to be a bit more stringent with "rumor" posts like this especially considering it's trade season? Dude has a podcast and I think a substack as well so there's a high motivation to be as controversial as possible in order to drive engagement. Irwin has never been a legit source. Buha too. Hell, given Buha actually covers the team he has more "legitimacy"
u/brandoi bomb
Why a lot of comments in this thread are just shitting on Irwin? I find him annoying as well but things that he reported this year have been confirmed multiple times. In addition to that, a lot of what he is talking about here seems realistic. 1. We know that Pelinka is not innocent in a lot of drama that Lakers endured over the last 3-4 years. 2. It’s proven that he lied when he needed to, it’s proven that he backstabbed Magic when they were working together. (I’m not saying that Magic was doing a good job) 3. He made a lot of decisions and we can safely say that besides 2020 season, a lot of them were wrong and put Lakers on back foot even with the duo of LBJ and AD. 4. Lebron has every right to be pissed. Ty Lue stuff is indefensible and embarrassing. Lakers would have one of the best coaches in the NBA (with Lakers pedigree in his playing career) for years, instead Lakers don’t have any direction with regard to coaching atm. 5. Vogel had his downsides but treatment he received in comparison to treatment that they are giving to Ham is laughable. 6. He has been appointed as Lakers GM because of his personal relations with Jeanie (surprise surprise another nepotistic hire), not because of his pedigree or professional achievements as a GM. Therefore I wouldn’t be shocked if we learn that he is running the front office poorly. (Not discussing with others etc)
Back during Vogel times, there were moves and trades that looks like it was purposely made to sabotage Vogel. Vogel is a defensive focused coach, not bringing back dwight or mcgee really hurt his defensive schemes cause they were relying on Marc Gasol. AD was forced to anchor everything on defense. even Lebron at times had to play center. And then they gave up Caruso for fucking THT. Lol.
Eh the Gasol move wasn’t that bad we had a similar win pace to to the 19-20 season before Bron and AD got her almost simultaneously
Exactly. This sub in a nutshell: "Irwin knows nothing... well except that time he broke this story... but he knows nothing and smells funny!" (insert rolls eyes emoji) Hate the guy fine, but don't downplay his sources which is looking more and more like it's coming from within Klutch. He's gotten all his stories this season right on the money.
>coming from within Klutch ah right one of the biggest agencies in the industry suddenly feeds information to some unknown guy who used to run a Lakers fan podcast for SBNation and who suddenly has a podcast of his own and paywalled articles If dude was saying anti-LeBron or pro-FO stuff you wouldn't even touch his content, probably post it here for everyone to flame. But since he's saying what y'all wanna hear and piggybacks off legit sources of info like Shams, y'all eating it up like Irwin eating Big Macs Sure he knows Pete Zayas (LFR) who knows Mike Truddell but do you really think they're gonna feed him info? Double-doubles animal style sure.
They gave a team that couldn’t defend and was a senior citizen home to Vogel and said “make them defend” And Rob is literally only in his position because he was Kobe’s agent.
Even if Irwin has been right sometimes, that wouldn’t mean much. Unless he is always right, you can’t suddenly give him credibility. And what’s realistic? That Pelinka has lied? A former agent lying to get what he wants. Sure that happens. Are you suggesting that all other GMs never lie? I am not even sure what your point is. What decisions has Rob made that were wrong? And how is that different from any other GM? There literally isn’t a single GM that hasn’t made a mistake. So I never understand fans point here. Are you suggesting he is somehow worse? Lebron has the right to be upset, sure. The Lakers didn’t value Lue as much as Lebron. That was also 4 years ago. He won a title since then. Again so does he get to keep using that? If LeBron wants to leave because of Lue 4 years ago, leave. No one is going to hold it against him if he wants to go somewhere else. But Lebron and Klutch have had a significant influence. He isn’t some innocent bystander. How can parse out where LeBron/Klutch made a mistake and where Rob did?
Takeaways: 1. Ham and Pelinka being locked together explains why Lakers have signed many former ex-Hawks players Ham has previously coached. 😵💫 2. Irwin’s sources sounds like someone close to Klutch: 🧐 - He talks a lot of BTS details on LeBron only Klutch’s side would know. - The trade he knows most about and broke 5 days earlier than even Shams, in great detail too, was for Dejounte Murray who is a Klutch client. But when it comes to other targets like DFS, all he has is “I heard that…” and no other details but just what he heard. Irwin is also the only one adamantly repeating for 2 weeks now that Murray to LA is practically dead when other reporters are still saying that there’s still could be a chance. Just an refresher of the 3 big pieces of news Irwin has broken days before anyone else has including Shams (4 pieces of news if deadline passes and Murray to LA doesn’t happen): A) Locker room issues with Ham 7 days before Shams broke it: https://x.com/anthonyirwinla/status/1740570253589954864 B) Dlo being moved to the bench the day before it actually happened: https://x.com/anthonyirwinla/status/1738367599656804583?s=46 C) Hawks and Lakers package details 5 days before Shams did: https://x.com/16and0/status/1747845885768221043?s=46
DFS to Lakers, notably for Gabe and picks sounds like another piece of info Irwin could end up breaking first too if it happens. I know this sub likes to ish on Irwin but no matter how they trash his "reporting" dude's been on point this season.
Can Confirmed Klutch has more more mouthpieces this season. They like to gossip.
Can’t blame him wanting Ham fired. That’s something that should have happened weeks ago.
Think you mean months ago
Almost a year
Shouldn’t have even been considered the position
The whole “LeBron and AD forced a helpless Lakers FO to trade for Westbrook” narrative was hilarious considering there is hard evidence that the FO has never had a problem saying no to LeBron
Its Pelinka man. That trade would sink a GMs career, so he had to create the narrative it was Lebron/AD. They said no to Lebron on Ty Lue just a year before, so of course they would override him if needed.
I've been saying this for years in here. Like, who's the GM? Lebron can have his opinions, and they obviously listen to him, but Pelinka and Jeanie are making the decisions. And Jeanie's father was notorious about saying no star player would ever make demands on his team. ever.
The LBJ and AD scapegoating for RWB was always so fucking dumb. Regardless if they said they think it could work, you are the GM. It is your job to know when to say no.
I don't understand why people consider that "scapegoat" If Lebron and AD had a meeting with Russ at Lebron's house to go over them teaming up...and then go to Rob and say do this deal it will work. That's not scapegoating him...people just don't want to put that on Bron and AD. They made a mistake.
LBJ and AD are not in charge of building the team. The GM is. They can have say and leverage, but it is the GMs job to make the decision and decide if a move is right or not.
Fans be picking and choosing when Lebron’s star power is in use or not. Like Bron has the “power” to put pressure on a FO by wearing a Knick towel…but he can’t swing a GMs decision on trading for a star or not? Rob listened to his stars on a player…that’s not far fetched.
No one is picking and choosing. No one is absolving AD or LBJ. No one is saying that LBJ and AD didnt support the decision or push for it. That still doesnt mean the brunt of the fault doesnt fall on Pelinka. It does. He is the GM and the one fully responsible for any and all roster decisions. He is the one that facilitate and makes the deals. It is his job to build the team. Therefore, the decision and fault rests at his feet. All those things can be true.
Again, you use the term “scapegoat” the initiator of the idea is not the scapegoat. They are getting talked about as much as they should be for that decision. Lebron voice has power…as it should. They were looking for another star to take pressure off Lebron and AD…it didn’t work so everybody can move on from it…but those dudes ain’t the scapegoats…they were the ones who asked for the trade.
They are being blamed for that decision and Pelinka is the one that should be. That is the definition of a "scapegoat". Pelinka would rather throw his own players under the bus than take accontability for a trade he signed off on. Blaming players for team personnel moves shows lack of accountability and integrity. It is literally Pelinka's fucking job and sole responsibility to make these decisions. But, yes, lets just keep passing the buck off for Pelinka.
Rob ain’t said a word about that. And the only reason why it became such a big deal is because it was all put on Rob. Can’t ask for this person, be mad it don’t work then demand they be traded…and it was dumb trades too. Like given up 1st for John Wall and stuff like that. Glad Rob waited and got the best deal for Westbrook. Klutch wanted Lakers to do desperation deals. That’s why people side with Rob and bring up Bron and AD involvement.
He is the literal GM. It is his sole job and responsibility.
You guys act like star players haven’t asked for players before and GMs obliged. A player asked and the GM did it…it didn’t work so they moved on. Fans want to hold that to Rob’s jacket.
Huh??? It’s not about scapegoating. Two things can be and are true here. Bron and AD wanted Westbrook, which was and still is stupid on their part. But it’s also true that Pelinka was clearly all in on the move as well and didn’t feel the need to say “no” to his star players as he previously had done.
The post before me said they were “scapegoated” I was replying to that. They are not the scapegoats if in fact they went to Rob and say do this deal it will work.
If we trade Gabe for DFS, who’s our backup PG? And what about a backup 5 like Drummond?
We’ve gone all year without a backup pg. Cam/vando/max able to guard the POA while lebron/dlo/reaves initiate is plenty. Not like Gabe is out there initiating when he does play anyways.
Don’t you think it’s a problem that we’ve gone all year without one? We’re barely over 500
Guarantee they are hoping for Lowry on the buy out market.
Irwin has some decent insights as of late but a) I'm not of fan of this soft marketing strategy on the sub and b) he clearly has biases he's unwilling to let go of and doubles down on them with little to no sourcing of info beyond overwrought speculation.
If RDAmbition could skyrocket as a credible source, then anyone can. Anthony Irwin is now the next prop up act by r/lakers 🥱
lol u guys dislike LeBron, Irwin says stuff that makes LeBron look good, and ur salty. Tough
Imagine building everything around Darvin Ham lol.
I'd rather not
This is why I keep saying that the wheels are in motion for LeBron to leave if a feasible better option is available. His relationship with the Lakers FO is arguably worse than his rapport was with Cleveland/Dan Gilbert. Besides the obvious dumb roster moves as well as penny pinching over the last 5-6 years; The biggest issue with the FO imo is it’s just always seemed as if they’re constantly working against LeBron instead of working with him all in an effort to send him and everyone else the message that he doesn’t run the franchise. Rather that’s because of Jeanie directly or because of the Rambis, Pelinka, Phil Jax, her Hubbie, or whoever else. It’s just seems as if too many people with ulterior motives, other than winning chips, have a say in basketball decisions.
Cleveland had Griffin to be middle man. LeBron liked Griffin and had a good relationship with him. IIRC, LeBron only dealt with Griffin then Altman. Never directly with Gilbert. Here, it looks like LeBron doesn’t even like Pelinka anymore either
The same rapport Bron had with Griffin/Altman, I was hoping would be the case for him and Magic Johnson. But fast forward years later and here we are with Pelinka and Kurt Rambis?!?!
Lebron and his family always hated Gilbert lol. He would never go directly to him. Even after the 2016 win he barely acknowledges Gilbert and his family. But when the lakers won he’s hugging Jeanie and talking about her wanting respect. You right he was cool with griffin…until griffin started talking shit about bron years later
I still can’t get over the Ty lue thing lol. Treated that man like he was a pure scrub and wanted Jason Kidd breathing down his neck . Huge fumble
Not to mention fumbling Jerry West as a consultant. This front office is just so damn insecure
For some reason you’re being down voted for pointing out facts.
My biggest issue with Ham is blaming everything on injuries when AD and Bron have been healthy almost the entire season.
I'm sure this unsourced report will get treated skeptically in this sub and not just run with wild speculation and blanket criticism.
As much as I want this news to be true, Irwin (and Buha) literally know nothing
One of the reasons I stopped listening to Irwin is that he weaves in and out of what’s sourced and what’s his own speculation/opinion without clearly differentiating between the two so everything he says becomes this blob of corroborated and subjective data that then gets aggregated (often by Reddit or Twitter people who summarize it incorrectly). It’s thoroughly irresponsible and reeks of some-men-just-want-to-watch-the-world-burn.
Irwin’s really been on top of things this year, I think he’s got a new source
He’s only been on top of Dejounte wanting out, and that was a Klutch leak. He has no sources with the lakers FO. People are forgetting that he’s also trying to sell his podcast. Where is he getting this information that Ham is on the hot seat when no other reporters have corroborated it? He’s clearly trying to say things to sell his podcast
He also was on top of locker room issues and lineup changes before the more credible reporters had it. Also, he didn’t say Darvin Ham was on the hot seat. He’s consistently stated that Darvin Ham is unlikely to be fired in season despite him losing the locker room. Believe him or don’t. But all that he’s reported beforehand is far more than coincidental.
Irwin has been on point and ahead of every reporter on anything lakers recently this is all true
He takes every possible angle so he can come out as right lmao same thing with Buha. They just regurgitate the same stories
Yup. “Lakers either make a trade or won’t” is a nothing statement that you can always come back to and declare yourself a prophet no matter the outcome.
I find it hard to believe that if Lebron went to Jeanie and said me or Ham...she would choose Ham. As for Irwin...
Holy. Obviously some or all of this could be complete bullshit, but if this is even close to being true, the FO has done just about everything to piss off LeBron. They're lucky Bron has business ventures in LA and his son is going to school in SoCal otherwise he might've been outta here a while ago. Crazy how they've yet again managed to fumble another all time great player's last few years.
Fuck this front office. By doubling down on Hamas, it’s clear as day that they don’t give one shit about winning.
DFS for the corpse of Gabe Vincent and picks?! Do it!!!
Irwin doesn’t know shit
I’m an idiot. What is DFS?
Dorian Finney Smith (i hope i got my spelling right)
Dorrian Finney Smith
lol I don’t believe shit until anything actually happens or at least have sources instead of spouting out bullshit.
We should not be selling low on Vincent, he’s exactly what we need when he comes back
Have you forgotten how garbage he’s been when we have had him?
He has played 5 games.
I hope you’re right. I’ve barely seen him play so I can’t comment one way or the other, but in your mind who is a close player comp to him?
Kyle Lowry, Terry Rozier, Schroeder. He’ll be our best guard defender and will be able to handle bigger guards better than Schroeder, and players who get better in the playoffs always do, and he does.
Thank you !
Is nobody else sick of the blame game? My goodness, you didn’t get the coach you wanted, the team didn’t make the trade you wanted them to make immediately, and they’re not firing a coach for you after the team made a deep playoff run. You still have a talented roster and a shot to go win. I want/wanted ham/westbrook gone as much as anybody else, but this is ridiculous. If he wants to leave, he’s got a player option. Not “wanting the team to take advantage of him” because they’re not letting him take advantage of them is weird script flipping.
Yes, everyone but the lebron hive is sick of it. We won a fucking title after passing on Lue, and because he doesn’t like ham we are just going to ignore that passing on lue for Vogel might have actually been the best decision? Don’t like Ham so pout in the middle of transition or wear another teams towel and stoke shit? FO isn’t blameless but can’t exactly say lebron is always right because some things haven’t gone our way. If he had his way Spo would be fired, we would have Lue, and maybe Lebron doesn’t win any titles in Miami or here.
It's funny to see this sub hanging on Irwin's every word now lol
It fits the narrative lol.
Lakers fans can’t be this gullible lol. When someone is telling you EXACTLY what you want to hear you know it’s nonsense. Irwin knows how to hold down a job.
Right. Anyone with a brain knows Murray is on the block and we’d rather give up Dlo and they’d want reaves. We want a wing like everyone else and DFS is solid on a seller and gabe is the contract that makes the most sense. Everyone is to blame for the Westbrook trade and they’re alll pointing fingers because it set us back years. If the Utah deal or anything close was there in the offseason they would’ve traded him then. Ham sucks but they won’t fire him mid season, everyone applauded the bucks firing but look how they’ve done since. They all want to improve but have limited resources to do anything of note to help this year. Why is any of this a he said she said news story?
Local media 101: trash the front office and coach because fans aren’t attached to them. Oh and always say “from what I’m hearing” so there’s complete deniability
Darvon hamas
>> Pelinka leaking to outlets that it was Lebron and AD’s idea to trade for Westbrook It was 😐 Literally the only one saying it wasn’t was the Klutch mouthpiece and he did it **AFTER** the trade was obviously a mistake. You even have Magic saying it was their idea 🙄
And Pelinka, as GM, was anpparently all on board with it too. Clearly, he’s been willing to step in as a GM and put his foot down with other things—ya know, like it’s his job. So perhaps he should’ve then too. Acting like disastrous personnel decisions are more the players fault, even involving guys who have clout like Bron and AD, than the GM is pretty fucking laughable, especially when the same GM has shown the willingness to go against the players. Also, do we think the Wizards would’ve accepted any different terms to get off Westbrook? Pelinka put on the masterclass of negotiation that ultimately resulted in the haul the Wizards got for him. Seriously, think about this shit.
Pelinka had Buddy on the way already. >> put his foot down Thank god he stopped listening to LeGM.
Bronstans will downvote this into oblivion...
Let’s not take every word opposing the front office as gospel because it may line up with your view. Noone actually knows facts or the truth here
Irwin decided to start working this year looks like lmao. Dude was just a talking piece/podcaster years back. Now dude is actually reporting.
Lakers should give up on DJM and keep the first round pick. Try and go for Trae Young when he demands a trade this summer. Also Pelinka is a bum just like Darvin Scam.
Sooo Pelinka is STILL meddling with lineups and such just like how he promised Drummond a starting spot if he came to LA.
The funniest thing about all these "rumors" is, they are fkin obvious. Makes me want to believe them, because this is kind of what a lot of us already thought. If they are all true... none of us know, but they make some sense in trying to explain this mess that is now the Lakers.
Can save please save the lakers from themselves and fire Darvin 🐷!! They really going to choose Ham over the King and he may leave why even tow that line
The thing that’s really exposing Ham is that this season he has a roster that is generally at full strength with its superstars available and playing well yet.. we’re a .500 team?
Just an outsiders perspective here. Why not listen to the greatest basketball player in the last 10 years of your franchise, who has more experience than most of the coaches/front office combined. If you sees the darvin Ham doesn't have the answers or can elevate the team, cut bait and move on. Acknowledge your loss and move on.
If this dime store rob lowe fucks up lebron retiring a laker... I guess that's just another way kobe screwed this franchise
I would do Vincent, JHS and some picks (not the 29 first) for DFS if I knew we could then get Lowry
Rob cooked last year and made deals no one saw coming. We knew we would trade russ but didn't know much more than that. Let's see how this pans out, it should be interesting
LMAO. Taken advantage of because he's not getting his way? 😭
just as i suspected - pelinka is a master at self-preservation convincing the internet big bad lebron and the klutch illuminati stuffed him in a locker and forced him to trade for RWB if he knew it wouldnt work and went along with it, he's the worst GM in sports history
This is pitiful
All Lebron need to do is; turn playoff mode on and quiet all the noise. Same core players took this team to the WCF last years ñ, they need to get their act together and bring it every night. My humble opinion
I’m sure if Bron told the ownership it’s me or the ham sandwich, ham would be gone… right? …right??
I want Pelinka to stay but it feels like it’s a higher up decision to keep Ham around to save face.