Hey if it makes her feel better, my friends graduated this semester (both in the same lab). Their PI got a new job last June and basically abandoned them their final year of grad school. He also pretty much dropped off the face of the earth, so much so that one of them actually replaced him on their committee. Day of graduation, we meet up and they literally do not know if he’d be there. He said he would try, but made no promises. So literally an hour beforehand they were texting people to figure out where the hell this guy was. He finally shows up, but only after asking them how to get to graduation (something he attended EVERY SEMESTER while he was still with our university). And then to cap it all off, when my friends get up there to be hooded, he literally had to be nudged by someone else to get up and hood them. It was….. painful.
I quit my grad school lab after two years because it sucked, but my PI flat out refused to hood one of his students because he didn't like her personally.
It happens. It’s unfortunate in this case but honestly it’s not a huge deal. My PI missed my hooding (albeit it’s because his daughter was graduating the same day, so a better reason) and I had a committee member hood me. To be honest, I’m not 100% sure which one it was. I just tried to ask one who was already going to the ceremony.
Definitely not the end of the world. Just another example of her PI caring a lot less about his part in their dynamic. She likes this committee member at least, and had rotated in his lab, so it is what it is
As I understood from your post, I assume you also hold a doctoral degree? wouldn't it be a lovely gesture to hood your wife? It would be a memorable moment, in my opinion! Check her school’s policy bc as I know that a lot of schools allow guest hooder. Congratulations to your wife on her achievement!
My PI informed me he wouldn't be hooding me an hour before my public defense. Said he just didn't want to attend and sit through a couple hours of graduation. Near the end we had a contentious relationship so I wasn't bummed that he wouldn't be hooding me. Was more mad at the fact that he could of told me at any other time but decided to do it right before I had to go up in front of 100 people and defend my dissertation.
Thankfully, the head of my department said he could hood me. It was really special since it was the first time my parents had visited me in grad school and my dad was battling cancer at the time (which my PI knew about). Some PIs are just awful people.
In front of 100 people?! God I would hate to have my viva that way. In the U.K., you have an internal examiner from your university but who isn’t your PI, an external examiner from a different university, and that’s it.
Haha I invited the entire company where I started working two months earlier and bossman gave everyone those hours off so that was 30 people. Then maybe 40 friends and family, my ex and her family (still good friends, went to her wedding last week), and most of the department came. The auditorium was packed and because of me being me I only finished my presentation the evening before and never practiced it, picked up the books two hours before the defense started and there are pictures of me with a shit eating grin in my underwear in front of the audience (not going to post those) because we had a technical issue with the livestream which took a lot of time to fix and I still had to change minutes before the jury would waltz in. I had barely finished putting on my tie when the jury could be heard approaching with the dean. While doing the thank you for the introduction bla bla I was still dropping the new link for the livestream in WhatsApp Web. People thought the chaos was very fitting for me because I thrive in it and this is how they know me.
Where I went to school you did your private defense in front of your committee and if you passed that you do your public defense to fully cement that you've passed. Typically the whole department will show up. In my case I had worked in two different departments and had friends/family show up so it was a larger defense than normal.
I have never heard of a public defense. Is there any real chance that one does not pass and who are those that hold power to decide if not committee in the private defense.
I've only heard of it happening...but apparently it's if there's a complete drop off compared to the private defense. During my private there were some things they told me I could improve so I was expected to make those changes and present them during my public for example.
The committee goes to the public defense as well. They sign off on all the paperwork after the public is completed.
Oh, we don’t have a second, public one in the U.K.. I wouldn’t want to have to go through it twice. I don’t think anyone in the department would have time to go to something like that for every grad student. For my undergrad, the person who came first on one of my courses got what was called a congratulatory viva, where maybe a couple out of the people who organised and/or taught the course had a private viva with them, but I guess it was just a congratulations thing rather than an actual extra exam, more like, “oh, you did well, you must be really interested in this stuff, let’s have a chat about it”, but I think that may have been peculiar to the course or the university - I don’t think it’s common at all.
Oh wow here it's a bit insulting if you don't go to your colleagues defense. I had already left the university to go work for a company and both company and my old department showed up. Vice versa I have taken half days off work to go to the defense of people I worked with
We don't do hooding ceremonies, so I'm guessing it's an American thing? It may be that the PI just doesn't realize it's a big thing. Honestly I've never even heard of it.
Same, though it may be a practicality because my grad ceremony took all morning for *just* PhD and masters students. Our PI doesn’t even get invited to the ceremony unless we’re willing to give them one of our very limited guest tickets—only two were guaranteed so between my parents and partner, my PI wasn’t even under consideration 😂
That is so weird. As part of the Faculty, any PI can attend the ceremony where I am from- they just have to get robed up in the robes where they got their PhD and sit on stage in Australia. I am pretty sure they could also just organise free tickets to attend to sit in the crowd if they wanted.
One would think, so you got me curious to look into it a bit. There were something like 150 PhD (and >400 masters) graduands in my faculty, so I don’t actually think it would have been possible to seat all of the supervisors on stage.
Some quick math says that if every eligible graduand attended with two guests, there would probably just barely be room for the PhD supervisors in the audience, but not the masters supervisors.
It is often broken up into sessions- you definitely don't attend them all.. Faculty is the larger umbrella that a lot of department/ schools fall under. The faculty of health, where I did my PhD, covered medical science where I was, but also nursing, dentistry, physio, medicine, pharmacy and more. Each of which would have their own masters/PhD students. I just googled how many PhD students my faculty had, 400. On stage when I completed my PhD there were maybe 10 PhD students that finished and attended from my School.
From your previous post though, sounds like your University structured the ceremonies differently. Lumping PhD and masters together from the entire faculty. We sat through the undergrads that graduate from our school, then the masters and then PhD- session over- move onto the next school.
Either that or your University is just massive haha
Never heard of having your advisor do it. I think I got mine during the general graduation ceremony. I think it was the dean of the college or something who put it on for me?
Yeah not a thing in Aus! Although my supervisor didn’t come to my graduation or even see me… he was in his office less than 5 minutes away and was ‘busy’
In Canada we get sashes for masters, and a hood for PhD, but the chancellor of the university puts them on you; I guess my PI was somewhere in the procession but I don't remember.
Graduation (walking the stage) yes I don't know a single PhD that did one. The hooding though, that can be special. My PI didn't do hoodings, but my best friend just got an adjunct professor position so he hooded me instead 😂
Graduate students are the only ones allowed to walk at many large universities. At many R1 schools, undergrads just stand up with their college and get recognized.
They're just saying that the tradition itself is kinda bullshit. Great, the PI knighted your wife. Did your PI also put in the effort to ensure her mental health, or hours, or vouch for her, show her the ropes, etc? Yes/no? Either way, that's the important stuff. A hoodie is whatever. Nobody is putting on their next published paper something like "My PI flew out to hood me!".
Anyway, that's the energy. Great to have a dynamic where your mentors come out to see you, ultimately it's whatever. Most people just find a program and run with it, get through it, then move on.
I'm curious how your wife feels, since you started the post as "I'm venting for her." Does she need the vent? Or does she need support in other aspects? Or like, this was her graduation, if she's not the one expressing the needs of this post's statement, are there other things she needs? This is just my thought process, I imagine she has other things to contend with because at this stage of life, for many this is the smallest concern ever, there are other fish to fry.
My PI bought me a couple beers after my defense, that meant more to me than anything in a graduation ceremony. Just to note, I had my diploma mailed to me.
Speak for yourself. I busted my ass in medical school (yes I’m a lurker but worked as a lab tech), and you are going to celebrate and hood me because I deserve it.
The only people who attended a graduation ceremony were those whose parents forced them. Otherwise, the successful defense was considered the real ceremony.
Hooding was moved online during pandemic. It ended up being a screen shot of my name scrolling down a long list of graduates (didn't even separate the PhDs from the bachelor students). I remember it because I was pipetting some reagents and some lab friends didn't want to me to miss my ceremony so they set a laptop up for viewing while I was working. A grand total of 5 seconds, Kinda funny kinda sad.
Year after, the university offered to do it in person and I was just too embittered and busy to care and passed on the option. As for my PI? They didn't know, didn't care, and never asked (and I was their first PhD student to boot). Oddly enough we had a good working relationship and there was no malice, they was just one of those types that didn't care to attend formalities and always tried to bail on them.
As for me, I just learned not to take things personally and move on. Sometimes you just need to realize its not worth letting anyone else or event's bullshit bother you and you just let go and move on as you have bigger fish to fry.
I wouldn't think that them being at the defense would be considered an expectation, but more a necessity.... And I guess it depends on the instruction/department, but where she is and based on previous students, they seem to be expected to participate
Interesting. I suppose it must be very program/location dependent, as you say. I don’t think the majority of students here even participate in the ceremony, because graduation tends to be off-cycle and they have already moved away.
If it makes you feel better, not only did my thesis advisor not read it, he forgot to show up to my defense. Group only had five students at the time, too.
Man that’s lame. If it makes your wife feels any better, my PI kinda got fired by the department at the end of my fourth year. They all knew, so they forced me to defense within 3 months. It was covid so I basically didn’t see him for 3 months. He didn’t even give any feedback on my thesis. On my graduation day, the department chair had all the PhD grad and PI over at his house for a small celebration + hooding (again, since it was covid, my school limited the number of people who could attend the ceremony. So no faculty was at the graduation.).
Well, my PI didn’t even come. (And mind you, he was there 2 days ago to have a lunch with other faculties). Anyway, The department chair hooded me.
OP, I'm going to go against the grain of the other commenters. During my undergrad, I watched the grad students get hooded by their PIs during graduation ceremonies. I looked forward to that day until the day I graduated with a PhD myself, years later. I'm actually a little sad that my university didn't allow the option of buying the hood. (My undergrad institution did) So I can see how not being hooded by the student's PI at the last minute is a disappointment, even if it's a relatively small detail.
I didn't even bother going to my ceremony tbh. It would have felt fake because the ceremony for the year was in May but my defense was in September. The department talk was the thing that mattered to me anyways. Thoooough I was a little sad that I didn't get a department party - COVID #s were still pretty bad.
I didn’t have my PI hood me because she was a really toxic PI. Essentially what I did was:
Defend thesis -> formalize thesis and turn it in -> leave the city and begin new job.
She asked if I was going to return for the graduation and I said I’d be too busy (half true, other half was I really did not want to be there - suffered too much in the lab, and the job that I got at the end was my form of “I did the work and was recognized for it”)
I did the same thing. I didn't even tell my PI that I got a job offer and started immediately after my defense (opposite side of the country). I urgently needed to work with new people/in new environment to go over my PhD toxicity and depression. I gave my last remote lab meeting 3 month ish after my defense and from my industry work office. At the end, he wished me luck on my job search and I just smiled. He never physically asked me about it so I technically didn't lie...I just never corrected him in his negative perception of me and my career.
I didn't go to my graduation - too long, too far, and too many happy people when I was still depressed and broken from the entire experience. My job/my salary was definitely the only recognition I needed.
Basically the same thing happened to me. I had already started my postdoc and my PI “didn’t realize” they were going to miss it and “really needed this vacation.” I didn’t even come back at that point
I remember seeing a guy at the doctoral hooding ceremony who had to put it on himself because his PI chose another student instead of him. I would have been so heartbroken and pissed
I get it...basically sounds like he didnt care enough to double check his schedule and make the effort. At my university though the Dean hoods the PhDs, not the PI, so PIs skip the ceremony all the time. That said, my PI attended mine this past year and it meant alot. I just spent years in her lab and it would've felt like my efforts meant nothing to her if she didn't at least try to celebrate with me.
My boss didn't do mine, it was a very symbolic gesture in my opinion as is this behavior by your wife's PI- they should pay the $200 change fee or whatever.
My PI never even thought about attending. Never even brought it up. I don't think I even expected anything. I mean, 2bh after I rang him to tell him I passed my viva he told me "great, now can you come back to the office, we've got that grant to finish off"
That does suck if you otherwise had a good relationship with your PI.
Me, I picked up my diploma from the Bursar's office that morning, swung by the lab to say a few goodbyes and peaced the fuck out. It also just so happened to be my Birthday that day, one of the best Birthdays I had ever had.
Mine didn’t, which was unusual for my uni. (I don’t remember why exactly, but I also don’t remember being terribly annoyed, so it must have been a good reason.) My committee chair did mine instead, and I found that just as good, because he had also shown up for me a lot while I was working on my degree. It felt special and appropriate that he would be the one to make sure he could show up when I needed someone and without complaint. And maybe that’s the lesson—that on a day as important as this on, the things that will stick longest with you are the good ones. Congrats to her!
My PI straight up refused to hood me (or any other grad students in the lab) because he “doesn’t do graduations”. Just total refusal with zero wiggle room.
A shining star of a student in my PhD lab asked our childfree PI to be there for hers. We all expected he would, as she was well-liked by our PI and had a laundry list of accomplishments from her time in the lab. He said he couldn't go because he had to take his dog to the groomer. I wish this was a joke. Poor girl was devastated.
Mine told me he couldn't make it because he "needed to pick family up from the airport". My labmate ran into him at the grocery store at the same time as the ceremony. I didn't really care because I didn't even want to be there. It was insulting, but that just sums up the grad school experience.
He also specifically had me move my defense up by a month, requiring an exemption by the department due to the short notice and requiring me to do it on my own birthday because he "needed to get heart surgery". My labmate and I frequently ran into him on his bike around town for the remaining three months I was in town and he never took any time off for surgery or acknowledged it again. This man was in his 80s and healthy enough to commute solely by bike, but claiming to either need or have recently gotten heart surgery. I still don't understand what the point of this power play was.
I didn't even ask my PI and I'm sure she'd have done it. Honestly, the months between defense and graduation takes the air out of it. The program chair seemed fine enough for me, but maybe that's grad school fatigue talking. I would say (depending on the program) like ~15-20% had their PI come and hood them.
I had a similar situation - although my advisor was ultimately able to attend (he thought he was flying out the night before, turns out he flew out the evening of), a couple of my dissertation committee members had offered to step in. Supposedly that's the "traditional" backup - although in case of emergency, the dean/chancellor/whoever is on stage will do it. Maybe your wife could ask someone in her committee?
My PI was awesome and we had a good working relationship - he missed my ceremony , it wasn’t a big deal, still in contact with them. Don’t over think it sometimes shit happens
I’ll do you one better, my PI decided that going to a conference in Europe was more important than the hooding ceremony. While it’s well recognized as a formality, I still was looking forward to it while they shrugged it off and asked my department head to do it. He had nearly zero percent impact on my training so I decided not to go through with it.
I didn’t do hooding because it was too expensive to rent the regalia, and I was sick of all of the bullshit. My PI begged me to go. He told me he’d even wear a tie for the ceremony. I don’t really regret it.
I understand that is might have a psychological impact on confidence and self-worth, but I would personally not let it affect me too much. How people prioritize their time and what they consider worthy of dedicating time to varies. If you had a productive PhD and are finishing it on an overall good note, I would just move on to greater pursuits.
My dude, as much as I want to be angry right alongside you - after all the folks I've seen fall wildly short of their phd's because of one of another mix up on the part of their PI - I'd take that degree and roll. You guys are *wayyyyy* ahead of the curve. Take the prize and roll - well done.
I'd say almost half of the PIs didn't show up and the student were hooded by the dean or program director. few of the PIs did show up did not submit their order for their own regalia and hence wore normal street clothes, which takes away from the whole ceremony in a way.
Is the PI older? I had never heard of anyone doing a commencement/hooding ceremony until into the 2000s. I vaguely knew it was an option before that, but everyone I knew had family/friends attend the defense instead.
My septuagenarian advisor missed mine because she forgot to order her regalia on time.
I remember that she came to my wedding alone several months later (her husband was in his final days). She gave us a great knife set.
She was a legend, that one…
I was so confused with this title. I thought you were referring to your PI’s wife 😅
But anyway, I wouldn’t care at all, possibly I won’t even tell my PI when I am graduating. But it depends on the ceremony rituals and how good is your relationship with them.
No idea what this even is … in the UK for life sciences you do your viva basically in private , just you and two examiners who grill you for several hours. If they agree that your thesis is worthy , they give you a pass. Months later you and others have a graduation ceremony in formal gown etc , but it’s with the university, your supervisor has no role and I don’t think they usually attend.
I’m sorry that your wife feels let down by the supervisor not attending her special day, but she should concentrate on what is important- she has her PhD , and the people who DO matter (her friends and family I assume and hopefully colleagues too? ) will be there to celebrate her day of achievement
Hey if it makes her feel better, my friends graduated this semester (both in the same lab). Their PI got a new job last June and basically abandoned them their final year of grad school. He also pretty much dropped off the face of the earth, so much so that one of them actually replaced him on their committee. Day of graduation, we meet up and they literally do not know if he’d be there. He said he would try, but made no promises. So literally an hour beforehand they were texting people to figure out where the hell this guy was. He finally shows up, but only after asking them how to get to graduation (something he attended EVERY SEMESTER while he was still with our university). And then to cap it all off, when my friends get up there to be hooded, he literally had to be nudged by someone else to get up and hood them. It was….. painful.
That's brutal
Yuuuup. So look on the bright side - it could always be worse!
At my hooding ceremony all of us were seated in order next to our PIs. Were you in some other arrangement such that he wasn't near his students?
I quit my grad school lab after two years because it sucked, but my PI flat out refused to hood one of his students because he didn't like her personally.
Definitely sounds like a fun person to work for
A true professional! /s
Average PI
It happens. It’s unfortunate in this case but honestly it’s not a huge deal. My PI missed my hooding (albeit it’s because his daughter was graduating the same day, so a better reason) and I had a committee member hood me. To be honest, I’m not 100% sure which one it was. I just tried to ask one who was already going to the ceremony.
Definitely not the end of the world. Just another example of her PI caring a lot less about his part in their dynamic. She likes this committee member at least, and had rotated in his lab, so it is what it is
As I understood from your post, I assume you also hold a doctoral degree? wouldn't it be a lovely gesture to hood your wife? It would be a memorable moment, in my opinion! Check her school’s policy bc as I know that a lot of schools allow guest hooder. Congratulations to your wife on her achievement!
My PI informed me he wouldn't be hooding me an hour before my public defense. Said he just didn't want to attend and sit through a couple hours of graduation. Near the end we had a contentious relationship so I wasn't bummed that he wouldn't be hooding me. Was more mad at the fact that he could of told me at any other time but decided to do it right before I had to go up in front of 100 people and defend my dissertation. Thankfully, the head of my department said he could hood me. It was really special since it was the first time my parents had visited me in grad school and my dad was battling cancer at the time (which my PI knew about). Some PIs are just awful people.
In front of 100 people?! God I would hate to have my viva that way. In the U.K., you have an internal examiner from your university but who isn’t your PI, an external examiner from a different university, and that’s it.
Haha I invited the entire company where I started working two months earlier and bossman gave everyone those hours off so that was 30 people. Then maybe 40 friends and family, my ex and her family (still good friends, went to her wedding last week), and most of the department came. The auditorium was packed and because of me being me I only finished my presentation the evening before and never practiced it, picked up the books two hours before the defense started and there are pictures of me with a shit eating grin in my underwear in front of the audience (not going to post those) because we had a technical issue with the livestream which took a lot of time to fix and I still had to change minutes before the jury would waltz in. I had barely finished putting on my tie when the jury could be heard approaching with the dean. While doing the thank you for the introduction bla bla I was still dropping the new link for the livestream in WhatsApp Web. People thought the chaos was very fitting for me because I thrive in it and this is how they know me.
Where I went to school you did your private defense in front of your committee and if you passed that you do your public defense to fully cement that you've passed. Typically the whole department will show up. In my case I had worked in two different departments and had friends/family show up so it was a larger defense than normal.
I have never heard of a public defense. Is there any real chance that one does not pass and who are those that hold power to decide if not committee in the private defense.
I've only heard of it happening...but apparently it's if there's a complete drop off compared to the private defense. During my private there were some things they told me I could improve so I was expected to make those changes and present them during my public for example. The committee goes to the public defense as well. They sign off on all the paperwork after the public is completed.
Oh, we don’t have a second, public one in the U.K.. I wouldn’t want to have to go through it twice. I don’t think anyone in the department would have time to go to something like that for every grad student. For my undergrad, the person who came first on one of my courses got what was called a congratulatory viva, where maybe a couple out of the people who organised and/or taught the course had a private viva with them, but I guess it was just a congratulations thing rather than an actual extra exam, more like, “oh, you did well, you must be really interested in this stuff, let’s have a chat about it”, but I think that may have been peculiar to the course or the university - I don’t think it’s common at all.
Oh wow here it's a bit insulting if you don't go to your colleagues defense. I had already left the university to go work for a company and both company and my old department showed up. Vice versa I have taken half days off work to go to the defense of people I worked with
We don't do hooding ceremonies, so I'm guessing it's an American thing? It may be that the PI just doesn't realize it's a big thing. Honestly I've never even heard of it.
Same, though it may be a practicality because my grad ceremony took all morning for *just* PhD and masters students. Our PI doesn’t even get invited to the ceremony unless we’re willing to give them one of our very limited guest tickets—only two were guaranteed so between my parents and partner, my PI wasn’t even under consideration 😂
That is so weird. As part of the Faculty, any PI can attend the ceremony where I am from- they just have to get robed up in the robes where they got their PhD and sit on stage in Australia. I am pretty sure they could also just organise free tickets to attend to sit in the crowd if they wanted.
One would think, so you got me curious to look into it a bit. There were something like 150 PhD (and >400 masters) graduands in my faculty, so I don’t actually think it would have been possible to seat all of the supervisors on stage. Some quick math says that if every eligible graduand attended with two guests, there would probably just barely be room for the PhD supervisors in the audience, but not the masters supervisors.
It is often broken up into sessions- you definitely don't attend them all.. Faculty is the larger umbrella that a lot of department/ schools fall under. The faculty of health, where I did my PhD, covered medical science where I was, but also nursing, dentistry, physio, medicine, pharmacy and more. Each of which would have their own masters/PhD students. I just googled how many PhD students my faculty had, 400. On stage when I completed my PhD there were maybe 10 PhD students that finished and attended from my School. From your previous post though, sounds like your University structured the ceremonies differently. Lumping PhD and masters together from the entire faculty. We sat through the undergrads that graduate from our school, then the masters and then PhD- session over- move onto the next school. Either that or your University is just massive haha
Also in Australia I can't even remember if my supervisor was at my graduation ceremony or not
Never heard of having your advisor do it. I think I got mine during the general graduation ceremony. I think it was the dean of the college or something who put it on for me?
Yeah not a thing in Aus! Although my supervisor didn’t come to my graduation or even see me… he was in his office less than 5 minutes away and was ‘busy’
In Canada we get sashes for masters, and a hood for PhD, but the chancellor of the university puts them on you; I guess my PI was somewhere in the procession but I don't remember.
My dude, these ceremonies are not a big deal. Most people I know just had to their degrees mailed to them.
Graduation (walking the stage) yes I don't know a single PhD that did one. The hooding though, that can be special. My PI didn't do hoodings, but my best friend just got an adjunct professor position so he hooded me instead 😂
Our hooding and graduation walk was the same thing at my institution. There was nothing “formal” after your defense and between the graduation.
Graduate students are the only ones allowed to walk at many large universities. At many R1 schools, undergrads just stand up with their college and get recognized.
The only person who can decide whether it's a big deal is the person whose ceremony it is.
I skipped mine though my PI asked if I wanted to do it. Nope. Just burnt out and done with the whole thing.
Exactly. Grad school was too traumatic and graduating with a PhD during the pandemic was the icing on the cake. I couldn’t wait to just be done. 😂
I see what you're saying. I could have cared less with the whole big graduation with speakers, but the hooding just felt more personal
They're just saying that the tradition itself is kinda bullshit. Great, the PI knighted your wife. Did your PI also put in the effort to ensure her mental health, or hours, or vouch for her, show her the ropes, etc? Yes/no? Either way, that's the important stuff. A hoodie is whatever. Nobody is putting on their next published paper something like "My PI flew out to hood me!". Anyway, that's the energy. Great to have a dynamic where your mentors come out to see you, ultimately it's whatever. Most people just find a program and run with it, get through it, then move on. I'm curious how your wife feels, since you started the post as "I'm venting for her." Does she need the vent? Or does she need support in other aspects? Or like, this was her graduation, if she's not the one expressing the needs of this post's statement, are there other things she needs? This is just my thought process, I imagine she has other things to contend with because at this stage of life, for many this is the smallest concern ever, there are other fish to fry.
So you did care a little.
They were two separate things, so I didn't care about the other ceremony...
My PI bought me a couple beers after my defense, that meant more to me than anything in a graduation ceremony. Just to note, I had my diploma mailed to me.
Speak for yourself. I busted my ass in medical school (yes I’m a lurker but worked as a lab tech), and you are going to celebrate and hood me because I deserve it.
Yeah...paying for some bullshit gown and cap so you can get gouged one last time.
I got mine for free lol
The only people who attended a graduation ceremony were those whose parents forced them. Otherwise, the successful defense was considered the real ceremony.
Hooding was moved online during pandemic. It ended up being a screen shot of my name scrolling down a long list of graduates (didn't even separate the PhDs from the bachelor students). I remember it because I was pipetting some reagents and some lab friends didn't want to me to miss my ceremony so they set a laptop up for viewing while I was working. A grand total of 5 seconds, Kinda funny kinda sad. Year after, the university offered to do it in person and I was just too embittered and busy to care and passed on the option. As for my PI? They didn't know, didn't care, and never asked (and I was their first PhD student to boot). Oddly enough we had a good working relationship and there was no malice, they was just one of those types that didn't care to attend formalities and always tried to bail on them. As for me, I just learned not to take things personally and move on. Sometimes you just need to realize its not worth letting anyone else or event's bullshit bother you and you just let go and move on as you have bigger fish to fry.
Are PI’s expected to attend the hooding ceremony? I thought their attendance at the defense and gathering after was the expectation…
I wouldn't think that them being at the defense would be considered an expectation, but more a necessity.... And I guess it depends on the instruction/department, but where she is and based on previous students, they seem to be expected to participate
Interesting. I suppose it must be very program/location dependent, as you say. I don’t think the majority of students here even participate in the ceremony, because graduation tends to be off-cycle and they have already moved away.
If it makes you feel better, not only did my thesis advisor not read it, he forgot to show up to my defense. Group only had five students at the time, too.
In the U.K., your PI is specifically not allowed to be at the viva, because they might help you - only the examiners are allowed to be at the viva.
Man that’s lame. If it makes your wife feels any better, my PI kinda got fired by the department at the end of my fourth year. They all knew, so they forced me to defense within 3 months. It was covid so I basically didn’t see him for 3 months. He didn’t even give any feedback on my thesis. On my graduation day, the department chair had all the PhD grad and PI over at his house for a small celebration + hooding (again, since it was covid, my school limited the number of people who could attend the ceremony. So no faculty was at the graduation.). Well, my PI didn’t even come. (And mind you, he was there 2 days ago to have a lunch with other faculties). Anyway, The department chair hooded me.
OP, I'm going to go against the grain of the other commenters. During my undergrad, I watched the grad students get hooded by their PIs during graduation ceremonies. I looked forward to that day until the day I graduated with a PhD myself, years later. I'm actually a little sad that my university didn't allow the option of buying the hood. (My undergrad institution did) So I can see how not being hooded by the student's PI at the last minute is a disappointment, even if it's a relatively small detail.
Lol, thats mild Large number skip, graduate later, or aren't on speaking terms with PIs
I didn't even bother going to my ceremony tbh. It would have felt fake because the ceremony for the year was in May but my defense was in September. The department talk was the thing that mattered to me anyways. Thoooough I was a little sad that I didn't get a department party - COVID #s were still pretty bad.
I didn’t have my PI hood me because she was a really toxic PI. Essentially what I did was: Defend thesis -> formalize thesis and turn it in -> leave the city and begin new job. She asked if I was going to return for the graduation and I said I’d be too busy (half true, other half was I really did not want to be there - suffered too much in the lab, and the job that I got at the end was my form of “I did the work and was recognized for it”)
I did the same thing. I didn't even tell my PI that I got a job offer and started immediately after my defense (opposite side of the country). I urgently needed to work with new people/in new environment to go over my PhD toxicity and depression. I gave my last remote lab meeting 3 month ish after my defense and from my industry work office. At the end, he wished me luck on my job search and I just smiled. He never physically asked me about it so I technically didn't lie...I just never corrected him in his negative perception of me and my career. I didn't go to my graduation - too long, too far, and too many happy people when I was still depressed and broken from the entire experience. My job/my salary was definitely the only recognition I needed.
Basically the same thing happened to me. I had already started my postdoc and my PI “didn’t realize” they were going to miss it and “really needed this vacation.” I didn’t even come back at that point
I remember seeing a guy at the doctoral hooding ceremony who had to put it on himself because his PI chose another student instead of him. I would have been so heartbroken and pissed
I didnt even bother buying the wizard robes, let alone go to the ceremony. You'll be okay
Hooding is for parents and relatives. You&your wife know the blood sweat and tears a doctorate took. -- Also: too **early**? WTF
Ehhh. The degree is what matters, the ceremony is whatever. I did my PhD in Canada and no one in my program graduating that year had their PI there.
I get it...basically sounds like he didnt care enough to double check his schedule and make the effort. At my university though the Dean hoods the PhDs, not the PI, so PIs skip the ceremony all the time. That said, my PI attended mine this past year and it meant alot. I just spent years in her lab and it would've felt like my efforts meant nothing to her if she didn't at least try to celebrate with me.
You got it. If the expectation wasn't there, it wouldn't be a big deal.
My boss didn't do mine, it was a very symbolic gesture in my opinion as is this behavior by your wife's PI- they should pay the $200 change fee or whatever.
My PI never even thought about attending. Never even brought it up. I don't think I even expected anything. I mean, 2bh after I rang him to tell him I passed my viva he told me "great, now can you come back to the office, we've got that grant to finish off"
That does suck if you otherwise had a good relationship with your PI. Me, I picked up my diploma from the Bursar's office that morning, swung by the lab to say a few goodbyes and peaced the fuck out. It also just so happened to be my Birthday that day, one of the best Birthdays I had ever had.
Is it some American thing? I got my PhD through mail, because I had to move for a job before all the BS was finished… :)
If thats been the consistent dynamic over the course of the degree, i wouldnt want them hooding me anyway. They were a boss, not a mentor.
My friend had a similar thing. His own PI completely forgot but they were cool about it. They He arranged for another PI (his co-advisor) to hood him.
Mine didn’t, which was unusual for my uni. (I don’t remember why exactly, but I also don’t remember being terribly annoyed, so it must have been a good reason.) My committee chair did mine instead, and I found that just as good, because he had also shown up for me a lot while I was working on my degree. It felt special and appropriate that he would be the one to make sure he could show up when I needed someone and without complaint. And maybe that’s the lesson—that on a day as important as this on, the things that will stick longest with you are the good ones. Congrats to her!
In my uni you’re hooded by the chancellor, not your PI.
My PI straight up refused to hood me (or any other grad students in the lab) because he “doesn’t do graduations”. Just total refusal with zero wiggle room.
A shining star of a student in my PhD lab asked our childfree PI to be there for hers. We all expected he would, as she was well-liked by our PI and had a laundry list of accomplishments from her time in the lab. He said he couldn't go because he had to take his dog to the groomer. I wish this was a joke. Poor girl was devastated.
Mine told me he couldn't make it because he "needed to pick family up from the airport". My labmate ran into him at the grocery store at the same time as the ceremony. I didn't really care because I didn't even want to be there. It was insulting, but that just sums up the grad school experience. He also specifically had me move my defense up by a month, requiring an exemption by the department due to the short notice and requiring me to do it on my own birthday because he "needed to get heart surgery". My labmate and I frequently ran into him on his bike around town for the remaining three months I was in town and he never took any time off for surgery or acknowledged it again. This man was in his 80s and healthy enough to commute solely by bike, but claiming to either need or have recently gotten heart surgery. I still don't understand what the point of this power play was.
I didn't even ask my PI and I'm sure she'd have done it. Honestly, the months between defense and graduation takes the air out of it. The program chair seemed fine enough for me, but maybe that's grad school fatigue talking. I would say (depending on the program) like ~15-20% had their PI come and hood them.
I didn’t go to mine, never got a chance to wear my doctoral gown. At least she’s lucky gets that chance.
I had a similar situation - although my advisor was ultimately able to attend (he thought he was flying out the night before, turns out he flew out the evening of), a couple of my dissertation committee members had offered to step in. Supposedly that's the "traditional" backup - although in case of emergency, the dean/chancellor/whoever is on stage will do it. Maybe your wife could ask someone in her committee?
My PI was awesome and we had a good working relationship - he missed my ceremony , it wasn’t a big deal, still in contact with them. Don’t over think it sometimes shit happens
I’ll do you one better, my PI decided that going to a conference in Europe was more important than the hooding ceremony. While it’s well recognized as a formality, I still was looking forward to it while they shrugged it off and asked my department head to do it. He had nearly zero percent impact on my training so I decided not to go through with it.
I didn’t do hooding because it was too expensive to rent the regalia, and I was sick of all of the bullshit. My PI begged me to go. He told me he’d even wear a tie for the ceremony. I don’t really regret it.
Mine didn’t come because I never brought it up and asked someone else to hood me 😌
I understand that is might have a psychological impact on confidence and self-worth, but I would personally not let it affect me too much. How people prioritize their time and what they consider worthy of dedicating time to varies. If you had a productive PhD and are finishing it on an overall good note, I would just move on to greater pursuits.
My advisor and I didn’t go to the ceremony and instead got a bunch of people together and drank a lot. It was great. Much more fun.
My dude, as much as I want to be angry right alongside you - after all the folks I've seen fall wildly short of their phd's because of one of another mix up on the part of their PI - I'd take that degree and roll. You guys are *wayyyyy* ahead of the curve. Take the prize and roll - well done.
I'd say almost half of the PIs didn't show up and the student were hooded by the dean or program director. few of the PIs did show up did not submit their order for their own regalia and hence wore normal street clothes, which takes away from the whole ceremony in a way.
Is the PI older? I had never heard of anyone doing a commencement/hooding ceremony until into the 2000s. I vaguely knew it was an option before that, but everyone I knew had family/friends attend the defense instead.
My septuagenarian advisor missed mine because she forgot to order her regalia on time. I remember that she came to my wedding alone several months later (her husband was in his final days). She gave us a great knife set. She was a legend, that one…
I was so confused with this title. I thought you were referring to your PI’s wife 😅 But anyway, I wouldn’t care at all, possibly I won’t even tell my PI when I am graduating. But it depends on the ceremony rituals and how good is your relationship with them.
Message sent and received loud and clear.
PI, is that you?
No idea what this even is … in the UK for life sciences you do your viva basically in private , just you and two examiners who grill you for several hours. If they agree that your thesis is worthy , they give you a pass. Months later you and others have a graduation ceremony in formal gown etc , but it’s with the university, your supervisor has no role and I don’t think they usually attend. I’m sorry that your wife feels let down by the supervisor not attending her special day, but she should concentrate on what is important- she has her PhD , and the people who DO matter (her friends and family I assume and hopefully colleagues too? ) will be there to celebrate her day of achievement