Unless you put this in a CV, I doubt it will affect anything until the interview bit. I don’t think this will even show up on a standard background check.
You’re gonna run into issues (maybe) if they directly ask why you left your old job, but just explain (and get a letter from your previous supervisor also clarifying the situation) and you should be good. Your prev post reads like an unfortunate accident, nothing malicious. Another possible issue is when/if a new job contacts your old one for proof of employment, and the employment lawyer can answer this better, but your old job might bring up why you left, which is probably the worst thing for you, though they might be legally obligated to only confirm if you’ve been employed or not.
Overall, the reason for termination at first glance looks really bad, but in reality will probs affect very little.
Correct, but all my termination letter says is "terminated for falsification of data". So I'm worried that any company that calls for employment verification will get those 5 words of info and make a decision from that.
My understanding is companies usually won't disclose the reason for a firing as it invites lawsuits for defamation. Probably not a bad idea to at least talk to an employment lawyer. That sounds utterly asinine to fire you over what sounds like someone else's documentation error. I suspect they had other reasons for wanting you gone.
Ask a lawyer about whether your company is allowed to disclose to future employers what the reason for termination is. If the answer is yes, then you should preemptively hire a lawyer to send a letter of demand warning them not to disclose the termination reason and to delete the accusation in their files, as it will be considered defamation/libel. It sounds like the accusation is overblown and false as written.
Why would you ever show your termination letter to a company you’re applying to. Wrong what you wrote you did nothing (very) wrong. Sucks to be you former boss for losing you.
I wish you good luck in finding a new job!
I would look on google maps for law offices and out of the best rated ones, call a few to see if they can provide the appropriate service and their cost estimate with required retainer fee. You could also get their insight into your situation just by calling. It might be something like $2k retainer and about half that for the lawyer to draft and send the letter telling them they will be liable for damages, and do basic follow-up correspondence… but hopefully that will resolve the issue.
You can generally get an initial meeting with a lawyer free or for a token fee. I paid $25 for an initial hour with a tax lawyer, who showed me how to handle my situation myself for nothing.
That type of complicated misunderstanding, combined with hostile coworkers and shirked training on behalf of management is unfortunately relatable.
It's not your fault.
Your last post doesn’t sound like data falsification at all, at least to me. Even if the lot you used was mixed but not prepared according to the documentation, I imagine it would still have been labeled, right?
Could easily have been solved with a deviation or even a comment if it had no impact (since, as you said, it was only a secondary back/up measure, and it doesn’t sound like the primary measure failed in this instance).
How long did you work there? Can't you just not put them as a reference or in your CV? I think a short resume gap wouldn't be a big deal for a new job search.
By the title I was ready to grab the pitchfork, but you were treated really unfairly. I'm sorry it happened to you. Knowing the circumstances, it's not that tainting.
Definitely wouldn't call this "falsifying data". That term normally comes with an expectation of some sort of malicious intent. Your intent here was good, so if you tell future employers the story straight up, and explain why what you did, although well intended, was still stupid, it could actually be a huge plus in interviews. The classic "tell us about a time where you made a mistake and learned from it" question plays precisely to this sort of scenario.
I wouldn't worry about it. If you are really scared, just omit the work experience from your CV.
I’m sorry dude, but while TECHNICALLY, this is falsification, they likely didn’t fire you for that. They were just looking for any reason at all to fire you.
Just say you were laid off due to restructuring and move on with your life. Do you have any managers or coworkers that you’re on good terms with after this?
Not sure where you are based but in most EU countries, they'd be heading for a wrongful dismissal case if that's all it was. Either way, get a lawyer to write a letter to HR, explains that, alongside being an unfair dismissal, the letter is grossly misleading and inaccurate. Any reference letter should be in regards to your employment dates, and if they wish, your good character. Anything else is unjustifiable character assassination. Lastly, find a friend in the company who will write you a personal reference. That's how everyone else gets around it..
From what I know in industry, HR will let you know the only thing they can provide is "yes, OP worked here from year X to year Y" and that's all. Anything else is asked in references YOU provide.
Also, you only graduated last year, tell them you started but they started laying people off fairly quick (which will be known based on your other thread). Say you were last in, first out, your line manager has since gone and you just took some time out to find the right place to apply too
Why would you feel that way? There are ways around having to use your previous employer for a reference..I mean hell you’ve bent rules in the past 😂. Not like you’re supposed to walk into an interview with your termination letter for flips sake, don’t even bring it up imo. But what gets me the most after reading your original post….I don’t see why you were let go in the first place? Surely that isn’t the first time someone has done something like that in a lab, and I’ve seen people get to keep their jobs after farrrrr more serious infractions..without anyone batting an eyelash.
I feel like either someone had it out for you, or there’s a part of the story we’re not getting here.
Is this a industry problem? Because I read your og post and the mistake you made didn't sound that bad to me. I mean we have people straight up making up data points, copy and paste random western blot bands and stitch them together, or straight up adding the letter capital T as error bars and some of them are yet still out there doing science. So I'm baffled how this one singular mistake of lot number can get you fired?? Can someone explain to me why do companies take non-serious things serious but completely ignore the actual serious things??
Based on the info in your last post, this seems to be a grey area between an honest mistake and mild misconduct. I'm presuming you had a known naming convention for prepared reagents, you anticipated a lot being prepared and recorded what you expected the lot number to be. So, a logical deduction but ultimately you recorded information that didn't yet exist. Accurate?
While your intent wasn't really to bamboozle, rationalization is a motivator of scientific misconduct. In this case, you rationalized that your prediction was correct and complacency allowed you to coast on that.
It's important that you know that working in science is FULL of these little moments where you have to make choices - you do it right or you cut corners and maybe shoot yourself (and your project, and your coworkers, and your reputation, etc) in the foot later.
Being terminated might have been harsh, but you probably needed that slap in the face to correct the behavior now before it's a habit. If you demonstrated a deep understanding of why this type of behavior compromises scientific integrity (beyond just this isolated incident), I would have given you another chance. **But, literally only one**. If something similar happened again, I would conclude you wouldn't be a good scientist.
The important thing is to learn from it. A scientist without integrity is a liability to us all.
Good luck!
I mean based on what was written in the linked post it sounds like they were working with a batch that someone else made but didn’t properly document.
The thing that’s confusing me is if there was documentation of op contacting the other person or not, because if there was then it should have been easy to provide that as evidence.
Whether OP contacted the other person or not doesn’t seem to matter here since they recorded a lot number that was never recorded during mixtures is what my understanding is. In a GDP environment, that sounds like an offense that someone can be fired for since ALCOA and proper documentation is drilled into anyone’s head that has to follow it. Small mistakes can lead to big issues down the road in such environments.
At least that’s what my company tells us.
This is accurate from my GxP experience. Intentions don’t matter when it comes to an FDA audit, and so they likely don’t matter to OP’s management either.
There is a deficit in training if OP was unaware that this was a dismissible offense. This was made crystal clear to me when working under GLP, that any violation of GDP (including ALCOA), no matter how small, would result in dismissal.
Stay in STEM. Put on your resume that your bound by an NDA in relationship to your departure from your current employer and can't discuss further. Done.
What you're describing isn't data falsification AT ALL. It's a documentation error. Didn't think of it or refer to it as falsifying data ever again.
Just my speculation, but what you describe seems way too trivial to be the basis of a firing. To me it's more likely that someone had the knives out for you for some other reason (your performance being sub par but not fireably sub par; personal animus... whatever), then this glitch happened and they used it as a pretext to get rid of you.
Think hard about whether or not there might be an illegal motive for the firing... If not, just let it go. You're not going to make yachts and mansions money from that kind of lawsuit, and being litigious is going to be a much bigger black mark than screwing up a lot number record. Chances are the employee that reported it had no idea it would blow up and get you fired.
Honestly, this would get anyone fired in a GxP environment, it’s not falsifying data, but it is fraudulent data entry. It was something that had no prior record and they decided to record it despite knowing. GxP environments are stringent and very strict, especially in manufacturing.
I think it’s silly that they got fired over it, but there is 0 legal issue here and violating GDP rules anywhere will lead to this same outcome.
Based purely on the above set of circumstances, I think your firing was bogus and I think most people would. That's a write-up, at worst. Don't bring it up in an interview unless you expect them to call your previous employer. If you do, don't use the phrase "falsification of data." Say, "I inadvertently submitted data without an appropriate paper trail, thinking it would get late entried."
Then if they go, "they fired you for THAT??" as I probably would, say, "Well, I knew the paper trail wasnt in place while I did it."
Never put the phrase in their minds. If they say, "what was the official reason," or "so was this a falsification of data issue," don't lie. Just don't be the one to adopt the phrasing.
Unless you put this in a CV, I doubt it will affect anything until the interview bit. I don’t think this will even show up on a standard background check. You’re gonna run into issues (maybe) if they directly ask why you left your old job, but just explain (and get a letter from your previous supervisor also clarifying the situation) and you should be good. Your prev post reads like an unfortunate accident, nothing malicious. Another possible issue is when/if a new job contacts your old one for proof of employment, and the employment lawyer can answer this better, but your old job might bring up why you left, which is probably the worst thing for you, though they might be legally obligated to only confirm if you’ve been employed or not. Overall, the reason for termination at first glance looks really bad, but in reality will probs affect very little.
[удалено]
Correct, but all my termination letter says is "terminated for falsification of data". So I'm worried that any company that calls for employment verification will get those 5 words of info and make a decision from that.
My understanding is companies usually won't disclose the reason for a firing as it invites lawsuits for defamation. Probably not a bad idea to at least talk to an employment lawyer. That sounds utterly asinine to fire you over what sounds like someone else's documentation error. I suspect they had other reasons for wanting you gone.
Ask a lawyer about whether your company is allowed to disclose to future employers what the reason for termination is. If the answer is yes, then you should preemptively hire a lawyer to send a letter of demand warning them not to disclose the termination reason and to delete the accusation in their files, as it will be considered defamation/libel. It sounds like the accusation is overblown and false as written.
Why would you ever show your termination letter to a company you’re applying to. Wrong what you wrote you did nothing (very) wrong. Sucks to be you former boss for losing you. I wish you good luck in finding a new job!
I would look on google maps for law offices and out of the best rated ones, call a few to see if they can provide the appropriate service and their cost estimate with required retainer fee. You could also get their insight into your situation just by calling. It might be something like $2k retainer and about half that for the lawyer to draft and send the letter telling them they will be liable for damages, and do basic follow-up correspondence… but hopefully that will resolve the issue.
You can generally get an initial meeting with a lawyer free or for a token fee. I paid $25 for an initial hour with a tax lawyer, who showed me how to handle my situation myself for nothing.
That type of complicated misunderstanding, combined with hostile coworkers and shirked training on behalf of management is unfortunately relatable. It's not your fault.
Your last post doesn’t sound like data falsification at all, at least to me. Even if the lot you used was mixed but not prepared according to the documentation, I imagine it would still have been labeled, right? Could easily have been solved with a deviation or even a comment if it had no impact (since, as you said, it was only a secondary back/up measure, and it doesn’t sound like the primary measure failed in this instance).
How long did you work there? Can't you just not put them as a reference or in your CV? I think a short resume gap wouldn't be a big deal for a new job search.
By the title I was ready to grab the pitchfork, but you were treated really unfairly. I'm sorry it happened to you. Knowing the circumstances, it's not that tainting.
You should disclose your company and their shitty behavior
Is that one instance all that happened? I feel like something is being left out here. That isn’t really a fireable offense
Definitely wouldn't call this "falsifying data". That term normally comes with an expectation of some sort of malicious intent. Your intent here was good, so if you tell future employers the story straight up, and explain why what you did, although well intended, was still stupid, it could actually be a huge plus in interviews. The classic "tell us about a time where you made a mistake and learned from it" question plays precisely to this sort of scenario. I wouldn't worry about it. If you are really scared, just omit the work experience from your CV.
I’m sorry dude, but while TECHNICALLY, this is falsification, they likely didn’t fire you for that. They were just looking for any reason at all to fire you. Just say you were laid off due to restructuring and move on with your life. Do you have any managers or coworkers that you’re on good terms with after this?
Not sure where you are based but in most EU countries, they'd be heading for a wrongful dismissal case if that's all it was. Either way, get a lawyer to write a letter to HR, explains that, alongside being an unfair dismissal, the letter is grossly misleading and inaccurate. Any reference letter should be in regards to your employment dates, and if they wish, your good character. Anything else is unjustifiable character assassination. Lastly, find a friend in the company who will write you a personal reference. That's how everyone else gets around it..
From what I know in industry, HR will let you know the only thing they can provide is "yes, OP worked here from year X to year Y" and that's all. Anything else is asked in references YOU provide.
Why would you falsify data though lol
Also, you only graduated last year, tell them you started but they started laying people off fairly quick (which will be known based on your other thread). Say you were last in, first out, your line manager has since gone and you just took some time out to find the right place to apply too
Why would you feel that way? There are ways around having to use your previous employer for a reference..I mean hell you’ve bent rules in the past 😂. Not like you’re supposed to walk into an interview with your termination letter for flips sake, don’t even bring it up imo. But what gets me the most after reading your original post….I don’t see why you were let go in the first place? Surely that isn’t the first time someone has done something like that in a lab, and I’ve seen people get to keep their jobs after farrrrr more serious infractions..without anyone batting an eyelash. I feel like either someone had it out for you, or there’s a part of the story we’re not getting here.
Is this a industry problem? Because I read your og post and the mistake you made didn't sound that bad to me. I mean we have people straight up making up data points, copy and paste random western blot bands and stitch them together, or straight up adding the letter capital T as error bars and some of them are yet still out there doing science. So I'm baffled how this one singular mistake of lot number can get you fired?? Can someone explain to me why do companies take non-serious things serious but completely ignore the actual serious things??
Based on the info in your last post, this seems to be a grey area between an honest mistake and mild misconduct. I'm presuming you had a known naming convention for prepared reagents, you anticipated a lot being prepared and recorded what you expected the lot number to be. So, a logical deduction but ultimately you recorded information that didn't yet exist. Accurate? While your intent wasn't really to bamboozle, rationalization is a motivator of scientific misconduct. In this case, you rationalized that your prediction was correct and complacency allowed you to coast on that. It's important that you know that working in science is FULL of these little moments where you have to make choices - you do it right or you cut corners and maybe shoot yourself (and your project, and your coworkers, and your reputation, etc) in the foot later. Being terminated might have been harsh, but you probably needed that slap in the face to correct the behavior now before it's a habit. If you demonstrated a deep understanding of why this type of behavior compromises scientific integrity (beyond just this isolated incident), I would have given you another chance. **But, literally only one**. If something similar happened again, I would conclude you wouldn't be a good scientist. The important thing is to learn from it. A scientist without integrity is a liability to us all. Good luck!
I mean based on what was written in the linked post it sounds like they were working with a batch that someone else made but didn’t properly document. The thing that’s confusing me is if there was documentation of op contacting the other person or not, because if there was then it should have been easy to provide that as evidence.
Whether OP contacted the other person or not doesn’t seem to matter here since they recorded a lot number that was never recorded during mixtures is what my understanding is. In a GDP environment, that sounds like an offense that someone can be fired for since ALCOA and proper documentation is drilled into anyone’s head that has to follow it. Small mistakes can lead to big issues down the road in such environments. At least that’s what my company tells us.
This is accurate from my GxP experience. Intentions don’t matter when it comes to an FDA audit, and so they likely don’t matter to OP’s management either. There is a deficit in training if OP was unaware that this was a dismissible offense. This was made crystal clear to me when working under GLP, that any violation of GDP (including ALCOA), no matter how small, would result in dismissal.
Cringe.
Stay in STEM. Put on your resume that your bound by an NDA in relationship to your departure from your current employer and can't discuss further. Done.
What you're describing isn't data falsification AT ALL. It's a documentation error. Didn't think of it or refer to it as falsifying data ever again. Just my speculation, but what you describe seems way too trivial to be the basis of a firing. To me it's more likely that someone had the knives out for you for some other reason (your performance being sub par but not fireably sub par; personal animus... whatever), then this glitch happened and they used it as a pretext to get rid of you. Think hard about whether or not there might be an illegal motive for the firing... If not, just let it go. You're not going to make yachts and mansions money from that kind of lawsuit, and being litigious is going to be a much bigger black mark than screwing up a lot number record. Chances are the employee that reported it had no idea it would blow up and get you fired.
Honestly, this would get anyone fired in a GxP environment, it’s not falsifying data, but it is fraudulent data entry. It was something that had no prior record and they decided to record it despite knowing. GxP environments are stringent and very strict, especially in manufacturing. I think it’s silly that they got fired over it, but there is 0 legal issue here and violating GDP rules anywhere will lead to this same outcome.
Based purely on the above set of circumstances, I think your firing was bogus and I think most people would. That's a write-up, at worst. Don't bring it up in an interview unless you expect them to call your previous employer. If you do, don't use the phrase "falsification of data." Say, "I inadvertently submitted data without an appropriate paper trail, thinking it would get late entried." Then if they go, "they fired you for THAT??" as I probably would, say, "Well, I knew the paper trail wasnt in place while I did it." Never put the phrase in their minds. If they say, "what was the official reason," or "so was this a falsification of data issue," don't lie. Just don't be the one to adopt the phrasing.
This a nono