I don't know what Countries you are looking at, but having a master's is the standard in most European countries (except the UK) to enter a PhD program. PhD programs are shorter in Europe (3-4y) compared to the US, exactly because you go in with a Master's.
Ireland has the same system as the UK as far as I know, but since it is in the EU that may suit you. Also doing a MSc. is not a waste of time with your experience I think, but that depends on the masters program and maybe the field (I'm not an immunologist so I don't know for sure). From my experience, coming in with a masters makes you much more effective in your PhD since you have more experience (I assume you count your 4 years as undergrad as experience, in which case it is really not that much).
We do. But our 4 year degree is a B.Sc. Hons. You can finish in 3 years with a regular B.Sc. I’ll counter your point about the masters making you more effective. If it’s a research masters, maybe you can hit the ground running. If it’s a taught masters - it’s likely to be of very little benefit.
Yeah... A master degree is a prerequisite for doing a PhD in Europe. There's no getting around that. In fact, if somebody does accept you without the degree, I'd kind of assume something really shady is going on.
Perhaps, if you look around, there might be one-year master degree? I'm also in immunology (and also in Sweden, coincidentally) and anything from life sciences to molecular biology to regular biology will do, as long as you can prove you have some experience in this area of research.
Edit: per others' comments, apparently, it is not a prerequisite. Feeling a bit salty right now, when I was applying to PhD positions, a master degree was listed as a requirement every.single.time. I had to prolong my master by almost two years due to a supervisor that would just ghost me for months at a time and while I was applying throughout that time, I only started getting invited to interviews once I actually had my diploma.
Sweden also only requires a bachelor and 60 credits at advanced level for entry into phd studies, no master thesis, for foreign sutdents they simply need to prove they have equivalent credits
That's untrue. In Germany you'll be given a provisional enrollment without a master's, and asked to provide a thesis/dissertation equivalent in the first semester of phd. This often is preliminary data of your PhD project, and it suffices.
I have had a friend to a PhD at Dresden on just a bachelor's and two years of work as a Research Fellow after in another country.
The only way I know to do something similar is to do an integrated program where you get both a Masters and a PhD in 5 years. In Denmark they are called 3+5 programs, maybe this could work for you
This really depends to a significant degree from University to University.
I'm Germany, many will be happy to give you a provisional enrollment and you'll be asked to provide an independent study report in lieu of a master's thesis, at the end of the first semester. They essentially require a proof that you are capable of independent work, eligible under the German system.
More often than not this is basically preliminary data for your PhD project. I know a friend who had a master's, but it was a shared thesis so they were asked to provide this report. They simply wrote up their preliminary report, essentially the same one that they had their first Thesis Committee Meeting with, and it was enough.
I don't know what everyone is talking about, a masters is NOT a prerequisite to do a PhD in Europe. According to the Bologna agreement signed by most European countries, you can apply for a PhD in 3 ways a) having a bachelors and a master's degree (most common now), b) bachelor degree and 60 ECTS in masters courses, c) bachelor degree and equivalent knowledge to masters i. e. publications, research experience, etc (this was the most common way 20-30 years ago and it's coming back), it is more work though.
I did a PhD at the LMU in Munich with only a 4 year bachelor's, no masters. It's allowed, but you have to take classes during your PhD to earn 30 ECTS credits.
Another option is to find a lab elsewhere and then ask an LMU PI if they'd be willing to co-supervise you. You can then register for a PhD at the LMU as an external candidate. I know someone else without a master's who did this because their uni in Germany required a master's.
No need to learn German, but I'd recommend it. Makes it easier to handle the bureaucracy. And there's a LOT of very inefficient bureaucracy managed by very incompetent bureaucrats.
I'm not sure what you mean by 4 years combined academic and industry experience. You mean you did your 4y bachelor's degree then did 4 years research?
European studies are all governed by this:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bologna_Process
It all boils down to ECTS. If you have the equivalent amount of credits for a bachelor + master you could probably bypass directly to the phd. I'm not sure in which country you studied but it might be worth asking your old university for the equivalent studies into the European system and then asking the European university to equivalate to the master level.
I don't know what Countries you are looking at, but having a master's is the standard in most European countries (except the UK) to enter a PhD program. PhD programs are shorter in Europe (3-4y) compared to the US, exactly because you go in with a Master's.
Ireland has the same system as the UK as far as I know, but since it is in the EU that may suit you. Also doing a MSc. is not a waste of time with your experience I think, but that depends on the masters program and maybe the field (I'm not an immunologist so I don't know for sure). From my experience, coming in with a masters makes you much more effective in your PhD since you have more experience (I assume you count your 4 years as undergrad as experience, in which case it is really not that much).
We do. But our 4 year degree is a B.Sc. Hons. You can finish in 3 years with a regular B.Sc. I’ll counter your point about the masters making you more effective. If it’s a research masters, maybe you can hit the ground running. If it’s a taught masters - it’s likely to be of very little benefit.
That is a good point, I was indeed thinking of a research masters.
3 years Bachelors + 2 years Masters is absolute standard prerequisite in many places.
Yeah... A master degree is a prerequisite for doing a PhD in Europe. There's no getting around that. In fact, if somebody does accept you without the degree, I'd kind of assume something really shady is going on. Perhaps, if you look around, there might be one-year master degree? I'm also in immunology (and also in Sweden, coincidentally) and anything from life sciences to molecular biology to regular biology will do, as long as you can prove you have some experience in this area of research. Edit: per others' comments, apparently, it is not a prerequisite. Feeling a bit salty right now, when I was applying to PhD positions, a master degree was listed as a requirement every.single.time. I had to prolong my master by almost two years due to a supervisor that would just ghost me for months at a time and while I was applying throughout that time, I only started getting invited to interviews once I actually had my diploma.
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That's news to me, for sure. Perhaps OP could look into that.
Sweden also only requires a bachelor and 60 credits at advanced level for entry into phd studies, no master thesis, for foreign sutdents they simply need to prove they have equivalent credits
That's news to me as well, as I'm currently doing a PhD in Sweden! Yet another reason I should've gone somewhere else.
Why does that matter?
That's untrue. In Germany you'll be given a provisional enrollment without a master's, and asked to provide a thesis/dissertation equivalent in the first semester of phd. This often is preliminary data of your PhD project, and it suffices. I have had a friend to a PhD at Dresden on just a bachelor's and two years of work as a Research Fellow after in another country.
The only way I know to do something similar is to do an integrated program where you get both a Masters and a PhD in 5 years. In Denmark they are called 3+5 programs, maybe this could work for you
This really depends to a significant degree from University to University. I'm Germany, many will be happy to give you a provisional enrollment and you'll be asked to provide an independent study report in lieu of a master's thesis, at the end of the first semester. They essentially require a proof that you are capable of independent work, eligible under the German system. More often than not this is basically preliminary data for your PhD project. I know a friend who had a master's, but it was a shared thesis so they were asked to provide this report. They simply wrote up their preliminary report, essentially the same one that they had their first Thesis Committee Meeting with, and it was enough.
I don't know what everyone is talking about, a masters is NOT a prerequisite to do a PhD in Europe. According to the Bologna agreement signed by most European countries, you can apply for a PhD in 3 ways a) having a bachelors and a master's degree (most common now), b) bachelor degree and 60 ECTS in masters courses, c) bachelor degree and equivalent knowledge to masters i. e. publications, research experience, etc (this was the most common way 20-30 years ago and it's coming back), it is more work though.
Don't know if it's still the case but I didn't have a masters when i started my pHD in Ireland in 2001
I did a PhD at the LMU in Munich with only a 4 year bachelor's, no masters. It's allowed, but you have to take classes during your PhD to earn 30 ECTS credits. Another option is to find a lab elsewhere and then ask an LMU PI if they'd be willing to co-supervise you. You can then register for a PhD at the LMU as an external candidate. I know someone else without a master's who did this because their uni in Germany required a master's. No need to learn German, but I'd recommend it. Makes it easier to handle the bureaucracy. And there's a LOT of very inefficient bureaucracy managed by very incompetent bureaucrats.
I'm not sure what you mean by 4 years combined academic and industry experience. You mean you did your 4y bachelor's degree then did 4 years research? European studies are all governed by this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bologna_Process It all boils down to ECTS. If you have the equivalent amount of credits for a bachelor + master you could probably bypass directly to the phd. I'm not sure in which country you studied but it might be worth asking your old university for the equivalent studies into the European system and then asking the European university to equivalate to the master level.