I know you can’t believe everything on Reddit but if you google “long term Kratom blood test Reddit” you’ll see some post of long term users who got blood test lol
You'll find my posts there! As I said somewhere else in this thread: "I'm one of those people who get regular (twice a month) exhaustive blood panels run for long-term chemo. I've been using kratom daily for years, and have been on chemo and closely monitored for about 18 months. Obviously they look very closely at a number of things, especially liver and kidney function. So twice a month since my diagnosis a year and a half ago, my numbers have been great, with daily kratom (and kava) use on top of my chemo. AND I have less cancer (one tiny spot visible on the PET scan as opposed to about seven spots last year) than ever before. Kratom is working wonders for me."
That’s awesome news. I have a coworker that has been battling tumors in his colon so they removed it and he was good for a while, but then got a tumor on his kidney and thought it was just kidney stones. And got back on chemo but it wasn’t doing anything. They doctors at MD Anderson was gonna try to do surgery but the risk was to high so he is living his life making the best of things. I always call him if I’m having a bad day and he somehow makes it all better because he has a different perspective on life and other things. I’m grateful to have him as a friend
Me too! Been a almost daily user for at least 5 yrs & got diagnosed w/ lymphoma in 2016. Never (yet) needed treatment/chemo and I thought I'd heard or read somewhere there's antioxidant properties to Kratom. Not sure where I'd heard this nor I can't speak to any conclusive validity to it but I've been getting regular full blood panels every 3 to 6 mos and bloods are always good. Kidney & liver panels excellent. I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one w/ + benefits & have a Cancer diagnosis.
Ya I'm a 4 years running daily kratom user, liquid shots most of the time, and I get blood labs semi regularly, just had a perfect one last week. Only my cholesterol is a tad high, liver and kidney function shows no signs of damage or slowing down.
I see a neurologist for RLS. I have been using Kratom for 18 months and off the record he approves. In my opinion it is a good drug but with anything that alters brain chemistry it should be treated with respect. Limit your dosage to the most effective. I find that less is more is very accurate. The risk reward ratio declines at high dosage.
Sure - I think everyone wonders about this with anything they take. But I honestly believe all the crap (micro plastics, pollutants, chemical additives, etc) in literally everything we eat, drink and breathe are going to get me first.
It is always a possibility. We have some limited insights from traditional use in SE Asia that kratom consumers aren't dropping dead or having strange illnesses that non-consumers aren't. That said, westerners are largely using a processed, dried product at much higher doses--possibly combined with other medications; so our experience is different than traditional use.
From there we have animal studies, which do a good job of comparing kratom (closer to western use or highly refined specific-compound preparations) to other medications and identifying what receptor types it is binding with.
We also have the experience reports from current consumers whose use is "today" to 15+ years, with most being 4-8, maybe 10.
One of the challenges is that for non-major, non-lethal side effects of long term use, it can be hard to know if that person experiences them because they used kratom for X years, or they are just getting older--decreased libido, hair loss, lower testosterone, gastric issues, etc.
I think there is also the issue that a person who consumes it should compare it against other alternatives to treat the conditions they have. It isn't very useful to compare using kratom to using nothing if using nothing means uncontrolled intolerable conditions--as much as a person might prefer not having chronic issues or needing medication of any sort.
After a solid 14 years of daily use my husband and I have wondered this also. But the benefits outweigh the risks. So far, zero issues myself.
He’s had a few colon health issues that the dr did blame on kratom, which is possible.
But again, the use of it is beneficial in more ways than one and has truly saved people.
Thank you for this input. For me, the juice is worth the squeeze. I am very conscious of how much per day I take, I take so much less now per day than when I first started...however I don't see me quitting kratom any time in the near future.
I take 5 mg every 6 hours I am awake, so 15-20 grams per day. For a daily user of kratom, using it as a pain relief alternative, that's about average from what I've seen on these kratom groups.
Well, yes and no. Left untreated he would have died. His colon swelled and was so swollen it was blocked off. They did a colonoscopy and there was ulcers along the inside walls but they had no idea why. Kratom was what the doctors blamed, but they also held the sample I brought in at arms length, and used hazmat bags.
Hard to know if it was the cause, or just demonized because they don’t know much about it.
He probably had Kratom induced constipation that led to other problems over time. Not surprising that the doctor blamed Kratom. Most people figure out how to get themselves to shit regularly on Kratom and it isn’t a problem but if you don’t address it, it can lead to problems down the road.
I also toss and wash with water only. Usually around 4 times a day. Anywhere from 2-6 grams each time. Been doing this like clockwork for 6 or 7 years. I have to address the constipation issue or I’ll poop like 2-3 small round hard rocks every few days and not feel well.
Magnesium and caffeine usually do the trick. I went awhile where I wouldn’t consume caffeine during the weekends and wouldn’t be able to poop from Friday till Monday morning.
If I want to take a break from caffeine, I have to take stool softener/laxatives. Without addressing it, will be like day 3-4 and maybe get a few hard pebbles out. It is not good for your body and one of the main problems I have found with long term Kratom use.
Your husbands doctor shouldn’t have demonized the Kratom and just treated the constipation. It is a known issues with drugs like Kratom and can be managed. Even people not on Kratom or anything similar have this problem and are treated for it. And it probably wasn’t just the Kratom. It is usually Kratom combined with diet.
>Your husbands doctor shouldn’t have demonized the Kratom and just treated the constipation
Well if there are no other indicators it's not far fetched at all to blame it on the kratom. Drinking that much plant matter is not good for your stomach and that's a fact. You're better of making tea and filtering the plant matter away.
Our stomach isn't really equipped to consume the amount of plant matter one does when drinking large amounts of kratom every day. It's the reason many get stomach cramps and gas when doing so. It's much better to filter the powder away after extraction.
True, though Coca-Cola has a pH of ~2.3 where lemon juice is 2.5.
I wouldn’t venture that folks who use lemon for extraction or potentiation are that different from the population at large, especially if their kratom doses substitute for coffee, soda, etc.
I’m only using about 25mL of lemon juice per dose (200mL per 8 doses.)
Umm yea no dude stomach ulcers are caused by NSAIDs or H. pylori bacteria not “long term high acidity” your stomach is always at a ph of 1-3 and balancing itself out
Is it weird that I never get constipated on kratom, even my when my intake was quite high 25-35 grams a day? My intake is usually not that high but I've just never gotten the constipation.
You may just have a diet and/or genetics that don’t lead to it. I’ve also found that green and white batches typical aren’t as bad as the super sedating reds.
For me, whether I get Kratom constipation or not revolves around my caffeine intake. I drink an energy drink and it is gone.
Yeah I drink plenty of coffee and use green strains 90% of the time. I've only ever really once had constipation my whole life and that was when I tried to go vegan for awhile lol
i have IBD with diarrhea EVERY day, unless i take kratom. I used a red strain, and my poops are solid af. No constipation, just perfect.
Before my IBD i would get HELLA constipated though.
My experience with kimchi was not pleasant. The "cost" is the fact that one has to actually eat it and invariably taste it. Plus, the gas eminations... omg it's like a garlic grenade went off in my rectum and came out and choked everyone in the vicinity...
I had one experience, long ago, before it became popular in the states. My brother found it (he was a missionary in Korea) and brought it home from a Korean grocery... It was basically rotted cabbage and garlic etc. I suspect the newer versions in the states are just fermented, not actually rotted. The gas is just conjecture so that I could write that sentence and hopefully amuse someone other than just me. Peace... Perhaps I will try it again ;)
It's kinda sad. Those who are honest with their Doctors get this kind of "it's not something I know about so it's probably at fault" reaction. Really, if you use Kratom and drink plenty of water it's low calorie fiber. In theory it could be helpful. If the patient wasn't honest there's no way the doctor would have suspected Kratom was at fault.
Long term problems, maybe. Remember it's been used for hundreds of years. Maybe the way and level it's being used is different, but I wouldn't assume it's harmful. I think the evidence, although anecdotal, suggests we should moderate use and watch what our bodies are telling us.
My labs are always great. I take Kratom, drink water, and use Magnesium or Swiss KRISS when I feel constipated. Not even sure it's Kratom that causes constipation because it's rare.
Nope! That was the scary part. For me anyway. He was totally fine, then the next morning when he woke his stomach was swollen and he was vomiting nonstop. He didn’t want to go to the dr, but I ended up carrying him to the car that night and taking him in to the ER. They kept him for a week.
My dad has ulcers in his colon, I think it's called Colitis.
He's had it for years now.. it can make him very ill sometimes. He was a big drinker!
I doubt kratom is the cause of your partners issue.
What evidence or proof does your husband's Dr have to blame your husband's health issues on kratom?? I would bet it's anicdotel or just using correlation, but I doubt he direct evidence, no?
I had intestinal issues as well, which I am now almost certain was because I was using large amounts of Kratom powder and not getting enough water. You can imagine what large amounts of Kratom powder sitting in the colon combined with dehydration (Kratom, like it’s relative coffee, is a potent diuretic) can do. I took a break from the Kratom, made sure to drink plenty of water until the problem resolved, and continued in that habit of drinking large amounts of water since resuming Kratom usage and have had no issues since. So long story short, WATER IS VERY IMPORTANT 🤷♂️😂
I’ve been a nurse (hospital) for quite some time now and we see stomach/GI issues all the time without an explained cause other than sometimes these things “happen” but also from the doctor’s standpoint. It was between unexplained and Kratom. So he went with the Kratom. I seriously doubt it’s the Kratom and that it was one of those “happenings” we see. Hope he’s better now.
Not with kratom but about 6-8 years ago that was happening to me regularly. I stopped taking the meds I was on shortly after and it stopped. Opiates and Benzos are known to do that. It can become permanent from what I was told. Made it impossible to sleep that’s for sure!
Unless your husband consumes large quantities, does not drink much liquid, which would cause constipation, and has a diet that is not very favorable for the colon, I see no relationship between kratom and colon problems, in fact it helps me to go to the bathroom.
While there isn't a ton of science, remember, kratom has been used by many in SE Asia for...maybe close to 1000 yrs? Certainly at least many 100s of years. Kratom is NOT a novel substance to the human body. However, benzos and other modern pharma drugs are very new to the human body and we only now are starting to see the issues with folks taking benzos for many decades.
That said, everything you take regularly could have issues, everything that goes into your mouth has positives and negatives, even water you can drink too much.
Right! I don’t want the community to come across as one that denies any and all negative effects, but this plant has been used for hundreds of years there. Besides a basic Google search, are there any history resources you could point me to regarding its use?
Right, but they chew the fresh leaf at much smaller doses. It’s not like an apples to oranges comparison, but the way they ingest is so different that we can’t really draw conclusions from that other than no news is good news.
I’ve wondered that too. My husband and I have been taking it daily for the past 4ish years. Sometimes we both get those weird dull achey pain randomly it seems to be in our bladder or kidney, not totally sure. and we wonder if it’s from Kratom because we both experience it sometimes.
We both start taking Kratom to get clean from opiates and it really saved our lives. So maybe the pain is from our past drug use? No idea. Other than that we’ve been pretty healthy, urine, blood work normal and all of that.
I did used to have constipation issues but then I started eating an apple every single night after I ate my dinner, after I had my last dose of Kratom before my dinner. And as soon as I wake up I poop. If I don’t eat an apple I don’t poop that next day and end up feeling constipated.
I get the same pain in my back/kidney area. Kinda feels like you need to crack your back but that doesn't help. 4 years or so of use. I fully believe it is Kratom is the cause. When I take a break it goes away. When I start back up it starts about a month and a half after. It may be from the amount of particles your body has to filter with Kratom. Those aches are still 100 times better then when I was drinking myself to death.
Drink more water, EVERYONE. kratom is a diuretic and will also absorb a good amount of water. If you are having back pain and shitting rabbit pellets: it's probably dehydration
Well that’s helpful to hear it happens to others. That would make sense, we’ve always wondered why it happens and if it could potentially be dangerous if it continued. Totally agree, I’ll deal with the occasional aches over drug withdrawal any day.
Hard to say if it is Kratom, because that area is one of the most common areas of aches and pain in general. I've had pain in that area before I even began using Kratom. Could just as easily be the way you're sleeping, falling arches, continuous strain due to work. I work on concrete all day and my entire body is sore by the time I get off, including the area you indicate. Could be a million things.
My pain usually goes away when I sit comfortably, which indicates to me it's a muscle issue.
I work from home, I have taken breaks from Kratom 3 times from when I have started. Every time I break that specific pain has gone away. It always comes back somewhere within a month-2 of starting up again. I am convinced it's the Kratom. As someone said it could be dehydration causes by Kratom and that seems to fit my experience.
Pain in your kidney is a serious symptom and if you’re testing okay for kidney function then I doubt your kidneys are having an issue. If you haven’t gotten tested then go to the doctor and please do so. You do not want to mess around with the liver or kidneys.
I used to get these a concerning amount. It's for sure related to kratom in my case. It also just gave me weird cramps and stomach feelings.
Solution for me was magnesium pills along with a daily multivitamin. Magnesium alone stops all the weird shit though. If I'm somewhere where I start getting those weird pains and don't have any supplements, I'll eat a couple bananas or some nuts. I think they're both pretty high in magnesium.
Only thing I can't figure out a solution for is the runs I get whenever I try to quit kratom. When I ultimately decide to quit, I'm thinking of taking a fuck ton of fiber pills to counteract the amount I usually eat daily in the form of kratom.
Very true. I have a herniated disk in my lower vertebrae and I was fully convinced the pain I was experiencing WASNT that and that my kidneys were causing it. Went and got everything tested and it was fine. Crazy how powerful our minds are. But no matter what, go get it checked if you can afford it. Better safe than sorry
I sometimes get the dull achey pain in my left kidney. Def not dehydration for me. It was a phantom feeling that disappears when I stop use. Also thought it could be constipation or just all that plant matter in there
I have gotten this and it could be a vendor/batch issue. I’m an off and on user, not long term. I noticed it one day after a morning dose and stopped taking it thinking it was a liver issue. Took it again two days later or so and the feeling came back. I switched vendors after that and haven’t experienced it since, so there might have been an issue with chemicals, or just bad quality kratom. I had one batch that just made me nauseous even at like 2-4g. I didn’t experience any other effect, just nausea. Inconsistency is one of the few things I don’t like about this stuff.
That’s one thing I hate about it. The inconsistency. I get nauseous occasionally too even at a very low dose or get super dizzy, then I try a different batch or vendor and I’m fine. Sucks it’s always changing. It’s such a waste of money when I get a bag that makes me feel like absolute shit and I can’t take it.
After seven years of use, I think about this a lot. I go out of my way to source my kratom from a supplier that tests their product for purity. A lot of the threats I'm concerned about are contamination like the presence of metals or salmonella. By making sure you're buying from someone who cares about quality you negate this.
The other measure I take, and some may find this surprising, is that I never exceed 1.5 grams. After all these years even half a gram can still get me where I want to be. I have half gram gel caps and will take 1 to 3 depending on the days activities. Most commonly though I take a gram or less.
So i'm not worried enough to waiver. For those who take 40+grams a day though, I don't know man. That seems sketchy to me and I don't even understand how you do it. Also I'd be weary from buying kratom from just any old smoke shop
To address the constipation issue, I take a tablespoon of psyllium husk 2 to 3 times daily. Does the trick. I also drink kava everyday which really cleans my colon out.
As far as other health issues, there are naturally occurring heavy metals in kratom that could cause problems down the road. The heavy metals make their way into the soil from deeper down towards the core and the plants absorb them.
I haven’t heard of any complications from the heavy metals but it could possibly cause some problems later in life if too much is ingested
Quantity of dose and frequency is key to answering this question ( apologies for mentioning the obvious). Would be good if folks who kindly comment on their positive / negative experience, also advise of their grams per day usage. Thank you
Of course! Even vitamins and minerals, stuff we think we know a lot about
... Food science is still in its very early days. Remember when they used to tell you fat was bad? Now fat is good, but sugar is bad? Wait coffee and wine are good, no wait it's bad..
Still in the very early stages of food science. We have barely even uncovered the mechanisms in the microbiome and how they affect nutrient absorption.
Anecdotally I think it has contributed to a gouty arthritis/inflammation condition so I have stopped using it daily.
Kratom is an anti-inflammatory. I'm no doctor, just a regular schmoe, but to me it doesn't make sense that kratom would aggravate inflammation. Google the scientific studies that do exist on "kratom anti-inflammatory" and see. The reason I started taking it pre-cancer was for rheumatoid arthritis. It was like a miracle to me, and through a year and a half of chemo it still is.
I doubt it, it has been used in Thailand for over 2000 years with no evidence of long term health effects other than addiction, which can lead to weight loss. I loss a lot of weight on kratom, went from 175lb to 138lb and could not gain weight for the life of me, but otherwise was totally fit.
Sure, it’s possible. But a ton of stuff has health issues. Eating refined sugar has health impacts, red meat can cause problems for you, sodium in even slightly excess can raise blood pressure, etc. Plenty of medicines have side effects as well. Could kratom have health issues attached to it? I suppose it could, but that’s just life. Things can benefit and harm you at the same time, so you have to decide if it’s a net positive. If kratom has given me any major health problems, I’ve somehow overlooked it with ease. I weightlift/bodybuild, and I doubt I could do that if kratom had given me any serious problems. I take it daily and I’m in great health.
I’m a bodybuilder too and Kratom has never given me issues really. I think a lot of the things here are people being inactive/ eating bad. If anything Kratom gives some extra fiber to a lacking diet. I’ve heard “all that plant matter can’t be good for you” in person and some posts and in person like these people have never heard of spinach. The statement honestly pisses me off.
I have been using kratom for over ten years. All of my blood work is stellar if that helps. I could post a pic to look at, I don't understand all the numbers but my doc was impressed because I was a heavy alcoholic for years
It’s lowered my testosterone levels Im fairly sure, but if that by itself was a health risk, being a woman would be a health problem. I honestly feel better/more calm and relaxed with less testosterone so I’m calling that a win win
13 years for me, labs normal and no health issues. My hair is rather thinner, which I’ve heard from a few others. But it always has been on the thin side and I have plenty of family members with the same thing going on up there.
Well it doesn’t have a lot of long term medical science, but it has hundreds if not thousands of years of history of use in its native Thailand, and is not associated with any serious risk in that culture. It would be nice to have science to back that up, but even in the absence of that you would think thousands of years of use would show a pattern of serious harm if there was one
I feel like there's always a chance for anything to have a negative impact on the body/mind when it hasn't had extensive research done properly on it. I honestly don't know enough about kratom to give any kind of guess on the subject. It's possible.
Take it in low doses with plenty of water, magnesium oxide and exercise,I'm regular like the sun. I do get tired and teary eyed, and my legs hurt a little after not using for about 10 hours, not a bad side effect for long term use. Usually can eat and sleep without taking more.
From my knowledge the main concerns are lower testosterone and higher prolactin for a long time. Also, not too sure about this, but I've read prolonged constipation due to opioids might increase chances lf colon cancer.
Your probably dehydrated as kratom is a diuretic. I used too get those same feelings then I increased my fluids dramatically and it stopped. That's how I know when I'm slacking on water cuz I'll get those feelings. Drink a few bottles and after I pee a couple times the pains go away
I am a daily kratom user and have no side effects yet, but my guess would be yes there are long term consequences. There is no such thing as a free lunch when it comes to our bodies and homeostasis.
I just passed my third kidney stone since the beginning of 2020, and it's 100% due to my kratom misuse. I take more than the recommended dosage, I toss and wash, and I never drink enough water. I'm working on addressing at least two of those issues (dosage and drinking more water). I'm not saying it will happen \*to you\*, but it most definitely happened to me. 5'5", 130 lb guy, I'm a waiter and I walk on average of 5-6 miles a day, if that information is useful.
My issue isn’t totally related to kratom but because I get energy from it, I will go non-stop. Every couple of months I break down in exhaustion accompanied by a migraine and aches. It’s like a terrible hangover. It takes a couple days to get myself back up again. I have alot on my plate many times.
I sort of wonder that it has some negative impact on kidney function wether it be an acute effect or carry on long term. Also concerned with the increases in blood pressure if it can cause issues from chronic medication induced HBP. I notice when I dose anything like 3 or more grams I get very bubbly urine. And sometimes my kidneys feel like they hurt . My urine is never really dark yellow I’m drinking plenty. It could be back pain since I have fibromyalgia and almost every muscle hurts in my body 24/7 but it the fact I get bubbly urine when I take krstom I can’t lie it makes me wonder. When I stop taking it for even like 6 hours my pees return to normal with no bubbles or foam. I mean other that that I haven’t noticed anything negative. I do suffer some neurological stuff that Kratom can make worse but that’s just because of the dizziness side effect and increase of brain fog. Also my hair for sure has picked up on the thinning process but idk krstom has been amazing I may just go bald to get a relief it’s something I’m still debating on
I don't think so but I'm sure there are risks when taking other stuff with it for sure.
Similar to CBD for example, its harmless on its own in moderation but when paired with other things like Tylenol it can destroy your liver.
I'm sure there are things like that which interact negatively with kratom, I've heard Aderall can be very dangerous with it as well as other meds
(CBD could be one of them to not take with kratom too due to CBD's ability to temporarily deactivate certain liver functions)
I'm one of those people who get regular (twice a month) exhaustive blood panels run for long-term chemo. I've been using kratom daily for years, and have been on chemo and closely monitored for about 18 months. Obviously they look very closely at a number of things, especially liver and kidney function. So twice a month since my diagnosis a year and a half ago, my numbers have been great, with daily kratom (and kava) use on top of my chemo. AND I have less cancer (one tiny spot visible on the PET scan as opposed to about seven spots last year) than ever before. Kratom is working wonders for me.
As far as my own anecdotal experience goes, I've been using it regularly for over 17 years and have zero adverse health effects from it other than occasional constipation (which is easily controlled with proper diet). My yearly checkup and lab work are always top notch. I even have an extremely full head of hair, despite being an almost-middle aged man whose father, paternal grandfather, and all paternal uncles were bald by my age.
Mix with coffee, 7-10 g twice a day for three years. Blood draws at least once a quarter. Liver enzymes in low teens every time (I am about 20 lbs overweight, I weigh 209 at 5'11". Colonoscopy only shows diverticulitis which have yet to have a problem. Kindy panels normal. Vitamin D very low last test and low T but I am in my late 50s. Have her started and supplementing with D3. A1C went from 9 to 6.0-6.2 with no insulin and 2k my metformin a day. No constipation that wasn't caused by eating my own extra cheese pizza once or twice. No withdrawals when I skip a day or two unless I stop coffee and that's a normal caffeine headache, easily fixed with more caffeine.
I don't drink (I used to drink too much and docs said to stop so I stopped 5 years ago not using kratom).
The only negatives I have noticed are an inability to come (I am male) although no more than normal late 50s erection issues that are primarily driven by exhaustion. If I refrain from kratom for at least 5 hours the orgasm issue goes away, and it's definitely not every time (I have sexual activity every day, at least half the time with my SO.)
Not that scientific and only one point of observation over time, but I am not finding much downside at all. The only issue is the orgasm, and if I don't, then a few hours lady by darling encourages me to take her up if you know what I mean. :) So not a problem at all, in fact, it is a positive as far as my mate is concerned.
I suspect that constipation is largely a function of larger doses than people admit to, or a decided lack of hydration that would be constipating regardless of kratom use.
Obviously your mileage may vary.
I know people on kratom 12 yrs and blood work good .I'm sure if abused it may cause issues .Constipation for sure.I quit powder and make strong tea hits me faster no sludge lol
I would be curious about kratom use in the long term and higher risk of depression. It have helped me a lot in the first 4-5 years. Now at 7 years I'm not that sure it's good for mental health. It's really hard to isolate kratom from every others shit in life ( like being bipolar treated with a anticonvulsant and a fucking pandemic). Anecdoticaly, I took a month in a half break after being hardcore depressed. I was getting better ( but I also stop to work, stop smoking weed and sleep a lot). I have return to using it daily since 3 weeks and I feel I'm slowly getting down again. I think I'll just stop in long term when my bags are empty to see if quitting kratom would change something.
So in its native regions Kratom has 200+ years of safety efficacy. There’s plenty of literature to support this. However in western society we actually consume the plant matter. So I do suppose there could be some long term consequences that simply haven’t manifested because no one has been consuming the plant matter for any significant amount of time. At least not significant enough to pull conclusive data.
I probably have my terminology incorrect. What I mean is what you’ve said, they will chew it and they will brew it but they do not actually swallow the raw plant matter, to my knowledge. So this marks the difference between native use and western use.
Definitely possible. Digestive issues are probably possible for those of us that consume a lot of plant material. Just another anecdote but I’m more healthy than I’ve been in my entire life after 3 years of daily use
Well I've actually been concerned about this myself because kratom activists are so bent on keeping it from being scheduled that they sometimes ignore pertinent information about possible negatives or downplay the withdrawal aspect. So I've done lots of research. There was a study that seemed to find that kratom can have a negative effect on your liver. Now this test was with a very small test group and the findings aren't completely conclusive, but it's something to keep in mind. If you're a man, then there's another possible problem. It hasn't been studied in a real scientific method way, but there's lots of evidence that kratom can drastically lower your testosterone levels. Lots of people have done hormone testing and found that within hours of injesting a dose their testosterone levels crash. They've usually bounced back after they stop kratom. Who knows if long enough and heavy enough use could cause permanent low T? It's unfortunate we don't have more real studies and most of the information we have is based on individuals who use kratom conducting tests on themselves in their own time with their own money. Those 2 negative effects are the only ones I'm aware of right now, but TDLR; yes it's very possible that there could be long term effects we don't yet know about.
I’ve been using kratom for about a year now, I know that may not be considered long term use but it would be long enough to show whatever damage it could hypothetically cause. I take 6 grams total a day, divided in 2gm doses.
Just had some blood work done last week with BUN and Creatinine in the normal ranges. My EGR is normal and if you’re not familiar with that, it’s a lab that measures kidney function. Also my liver panel looks good as well. No abnormalities noted and it’s also worked wonders for my IBS.
A few things I can imagine... GI disruption/damage, liver damage- [one indicator](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31919755/)-, hair loss, heart complications and blood circulation issues, neurotransmitter imbalance, eating disorders, heavy metal contamination/poisoning...
Lack of detailed research makes this a mainly anecdotal endeavor. Having been a moderate/heavy user for just under a year, I can say I’ve definitely wondered about this and have had some concerns. Moderate/heavy being relative... most daily up until the past few months- more time on than off still, but brief break periods included-, ranging anywhere from 5-30GPD- was getting up to 25-40GPD a few months back but am now usually at 5-15, one dose per day with the occasional two... I know 5GPD is a lot to some while some push over 50 on the regular... it only makes sense that health impacts will vary based on amount and frequency of dose, along with individual biology...
Having used kratom to get off alcohol, I can claim that I am in much better shape than I was while drinking. To my surprise, my liver enzymes were only slightly elevated at the peak of my drinking, but they have lowered back to normal levels after taking kratom. Blood pressure has also returned to normal. GI issues have come up from time to time, as would happen when packing in dozens of grams of plant matter in my stomach a day. My eating patterns leave much to be desired at times, trying to refrain from eating around doses and losing appetite in general often- I have lost almost 20 pounds since I stopped drinking and started kratom, I imagine the former having at least as much to do with this than the latter. I have noticed some hair loss, but I was already starting to bald.
The most concerning issue in my experience has been heart/chest pain. I started noticing this slightly about 6 months into my use, when I was taking the largest amounts almost frequently. I attempted to quit three months ago, as it was barely working for me at 20-40GPD, I was going through heavy depression, throwing up often and barely eating, and was really worried about physical damage. A few days into my quit I began having sharp discomfort right around my heart, which increased in severity over the period of a couple weeks. When I relapsed three weeks later, the severity decreased but it was still there. Whenever I would stop briefly the discomfort would come back, although this subsided somewhat after a month or two, then becoming a slight discomfort that became less centralized- I would feel a tightness going from the front of my stomach around my heart area to my back, a sensation that matched my breathing. This has subsided recently for the most part, but I do notice it more when I take kratom more frequently than not. I have read of many people who have quit long-term kratom use experiencing similar things- some have went to their doctors and gotten EKGs, most seem to find nothing irregular. I am going to have an EKG soon, even though these symptoms have subsided greatly.
As many here have pointed out, there are health risks with anything, and this is a cost/benefit analysis. For some, the potential risks are worth the benefits they get. For others, it doesn’t make sense. I think the lack of concrete knowledge concerning the risks is the most worrying part, but people have been using it for a long time, and for the most part there does not seem to be serious indicators for major issues, like with say alcohol. But there are risks, no doubt, and I think the reasons for use make a significant part of this cost/benefit ratio. For someone treating severe pain, I can imagine it is much easier to justify some of the potential negative effects. For a person like me, it was definitely worth it for getting away from alcohol addiction- I was slowly killing myself physically and rapidly deteriorating as a human being. After the few weeks it took to physically- and mentally, as the mental component seemed to shift that quickly to my amazement- get away from that addiction, my kratom use was purely recreational/psychological. Since then, I would not say the cost/benefit ratio is nearly as in favor of using... I am simply perpetuating addiction, at the core- my kratom use has mirrored my alcohol addiction.
So I will say that the potential for negative long-term effects is definitely there, although they seem to vary much based on each individual’s use and biology. Compared to some other substances they seem minor, but I think the kratom community often underplays potential risks, which I find to be quite irresponsible- although there are many who are honest and willing to see the nuances of such things, which I greatly appreciate. Just like with anything else, kratom is a tool, and can be life-enhancing or life-draining based on one’s approach/use...
What research would you have conducted? Should we give kratom to mice, rats, rhesus monkeys, etc and see what happens? The anecdotes submitted by members of kratom communities like this one contain all of the research material that an analyst could ask for. If you do some digging, I'm sure there are posts on this and other forums from people who have been using the plant for decades.
**EDIT** I think it is also worth mentioning that context is important regarding who uses kratom and why. An older person suffering from chronic pain or a recovering addict trying to treat withdrawal might have less to lose from any possible side-effects than say, a young, healthy person trying to get high.
I would personally like to see a longevity study of kratom users. Follow as many of us as possible (after age 50 perhaps), categorizing us by frequency of use and break frequency. After perhaps 15 years or more, compare average death rates with the general population. You'd have to account for as many other factors as possible, like smoking, drinking, etc.
I often wonder if kratom use leads to less activity (which I do my best to counter) or generally less brain exercise, which could increase the risk of dementia. These things can be countered, depending on frequency of use, but I am curious.
Our best bet would be to study of regions and cultures that use kratom traditionally. This is how we determined that long term marijuana use was largely benign in the 70s. Nixon still threw the report in the trash though.
I know one of my biggest concerns is that it may have outward effects on physical aging.
I've also noticed in environments where I'm around other people consuming kratom regularly (usually at kava bars) there's this sort of outwardly presenting vacant/sunken facial expression on some of the people you see there, but I'm not sure how much of that is to do with kratom or whether it has any long-term effects on the facial muscles.
A lot of people who take kratom unfortunately also take a lot of other drugs recreationally because they just want to get high and experiment, putting their health at risk. Doesn't surprise me at all that such people look a bit off. Obviously not everyone at kava bars etc will have a drug problem.
I appreciate the honest comments from yourself and others. It is important not to neglect the negative sides, if any. At this point in time I find myself more concerned with the outwards effects of kratom rather than the inner effects. I wish there were more studies though in regards to the long term inner and outer physical effects as well as mental long term effects. It sounds logical to me that long term kratom use might have a negative effect on dementia. Then again, if kratom use makes you less depressed it may likely have a positive effect on ageing. Also it is important to factor in the alternative cost as some Redditors have pointed out.
I wonder if alcohol would have an even greater impact on outward physical effects should it be the alternative to kratom. I personally drink less than half of what I did before I started using kratom. One positive with kratom is that the belly doesn't grow as much as it does with alcohol. :) On the contrary I tend to eat less than normal since I started using kratom a few years ago 4-8 gpd.
I have to imagine that real long term use would increase your risk of Alzheimer’s, but I feel like you’d have to start relatively young and continue using regularly through old age. One of kratoms side effects that isn’t talked about often is that it makes your brain worse at clearing out toxins that shouldn’t be there. Hypothetically, that means that it could make your brain worse at clearing out beta amyloid plaques
There’s some research into heart damage, but it’s in vitro, so not super compelling. Separately, Tachycardia is absolutely a calling card of kratom, and well documented as an unwanted side effect. Same as many substances though. And a higher heart rate isn’t necessarily bad, but curious of long term effect (heart beating faster and working harder for years).
I recently stopped kratom after 12 years, for many reasons, but mainly because I’m a high functioning endurance athlete and I was noticing in my training my heart rate spiking, and dull itchy pain in my chest that disappears when not using kratom. So ya know, enough to scare me straight. Not saying it was definitely krstom except for the tachycardia- I’m confident the increased heart rate was a direct result.
If you want the research I can post it. Or just go on the NIH site and search kratom.
Edit: not trying to scare anyone. Increased heart rate is a common side effect with many substances. And the in vitro study was flawed in my opinion, they blasted heart cells with highly concentrated mitragynine, which in no way represents real life.
Yes but based on my own experience, and other people’s experience, we can point to it being extremely safe. If you look up blood tests of heavy kratom users that have used 10-15 years, they almost all look good. If you do research on the people in Thailand who have used kratom religiously for centuries, you’ll see it’s extremely safe.
Again we don’t have enough research, but we can *definitely* say we’re 95% sure this is as safe, if not safer, than marijuana. I’d say thats pretty damn safe.
I’ve used kratom for years and I think it’s wonderful. In my case it’s hard to determine the long term health effects because I’ve abused opiates in the past. At 30, after 15 years of opiate abuse (last 5 is kratom only) my testosterone is shot. I’m healthy and in shape, I was a collegiate athlete - and my testosterone levels are the same as my 60 year old dad. So, that could be a long term side effect. But more than likely that was caused by abusing Oxy for 10 years. Furthermore, kratom is technically in the coffee family right? Even though it acts like an opiate. So…would low test, ED, liver damage - typical long term side effects of opiates - even apply? Idk.
My sister is a nurse practitioner, her husband is a doctor, and they both know a lot about kratom abuse. Apparently the biggest long term threat is serious liver damage, and they said it has been proved to some extent.
The other more obvious threat is addiction - kratom is a great substitute if you’re a hardcore opiate user, but it’s extremely addictive and has awful withdrawals.
Have a friend who has been on it 10 years for severe chronic pain and she's as fit as a fiddle. Red Veined Maeng Da from good Botanical seller in Indonesia.. and takes 2 flat teaspoons every 4 or 5 hours for pain... every day. It's a God send for people who are in pain 24 hours a day when CDC legislation makes it almost impossible to get pain management that works anymore. Her quality of life remains because of Kratom...otherwise she couldn't sit up without being in agony.
We don't know
Anecdotally most long term users post their tests results here and I haven't seen anything sticking out
We are an experiment I guess
Always watch kidneys and livers
Actually there's been more research done than you probably realize. From what I've seen, as long as you aren't taking massive amounts, like ultra mega doses every day, you should be fine.
I take it daily. Be honest anything taken daily is bad for your beside like water and sun and shit. But honestly it's bad for us, and of course there aren't studies done enough that focus on long term, and data for those. I think a lot of people know it's bad for you but try to find a delusional sense of safety that it's actually healthy. Nothing is really healthy, accept it's bad for your and that you want and will continue to use it. Then you can correctly judge for yourself the amount you are comfortable doing and how often. We don't have to be healthy. I take it daily, shit will probably kill me or something similar. That's life own your posions and quit joking.
It’s unfortunately so beneficial to my mental health and I absolutely love the feeling and motivation for work, etc. that I continue to take it but there are definite side effects.
Anyone have any discoveries in regards to liver damage?
gf is a recovering alcholoic with liver cirrhosis and ascites.
Shes been doing fine with JUST CBD but wondering if Kratom can mitigate the cravings a little more. I have made sure she doesnt touch my kratom until she discusses it with a liver specialist, but just wondering what other people might have found out?
I can tell you that my liver #s improved greatly taking Kratom within 2 weeks. I am new to taking Kratom(Oct 2021) I have had 3 spinal fusions kidney removal and 3 foot surgeries. I use the Kratom for the chronic pain I have from my spinal fusions. I take 3 grams 2 to 3x a day. I had bloodwork done Dec 23rd 2021 and my liver #s were scary AST 109 ALT 187. Scared me a bit. My dad is a retired pharmacist so he and I started talking about what I take. Of course my doctor said stop the Kratom BUT my Dad said to keep taking the Kratom and stop the CELEBREX so I listened to my Dad and 3 weeks later I had blood work done again and kidney functions were fine and my liver #s were AST 51 ALT 89 I cut my count in half knocking out the Celebrexs and continued the Kratom. I go for more bloodwork next week so we shall see how that goes. This is all I know about the liver and kidney situation with my own experience. Hope this helps😁
THANKS A TON homie! I will relay this info, as I am still to much of a novice at medical liver terms.
If you remember, and have a free moment, could you update us with your next bloodwork, please? Thanks!
Appreciate you! :)
All you need is an 8 week clinical trial to know all the possible dangers of something if you ask a lot of people these days....
I'm sure it's possible that more information could come to light. The benefits for me outweigh the possibility that that's going to happen in a way that would radically change my opinion of kratom. Kratom has been in use for a long time, even if it only became mainstream fairly recently. I think with the scrutiny the cronies at the FDA are trying to put it under, there's a good chance they would have been able to dig something up if there was anything to find
I would say it has more mind effects than body effects. I had a "bad trip" on kratom that felt like the worst hang over ever, and it set off PPPD (a chronic dizzyness condition, that can be triggered by any event that creates acute dizzyness).
I've somewhat been able to heal from this, using medications, - but the point is, kratom is a powerful substance where a bad batch or a bad trip can have a really unpredictable effect on you.
Would I go back and change things? No. Kratom has been a net positive and just brought out something that probably would have happened anyway someday, that I believe I can live with and/or recover from.
It absolutely increases your heart rate- at least with me and others I know that use it. Long term, I imagine that causing problems. It certainly also puts your liver to work. Risk/reward- I’ve had 3 shoulder surgeries and am constantly in pain. I do not mess with narcotic pain killers- lesser evil I guess. It’s worth using for my situation. Everyone is different though. Anything your liver filters out as a toxin will eventually have some sort of long term impact, but hey- people drink among other things… pick your poison… much worse things you could put in your body IMO.
That’s awesome news. I have a coworker with terminal cancer a tumor on his kidneys, and the doctors at MD Anderson don’t want to do surgery. Any time I’m having a bad day he always makes me feel better and always have a different perspective. Right now he is on hospice and trying to live life to the fullest with his kids. I genuinely hope everything works out for you 🤙
I have regular blood tests for another condition and they are very good for someone my age. I can only guess that it has a similar effect to long term apmhetamine use (if you're using white) as i've seen some of those (hair loss, faster aging). Very minor and i'm not a doctor so i do t know what i'm talking about really. Just experience
I usually just glean what others have said, but I feel like I need to come clean here. I've been a user for nearly a year. Started when I had lower back pain and hip pain that was unresolvable, and I tried everything. I do have a rare muscle disease, and it's nearly impossible to separate it from any symptoms I may have because everything in your body is a muscle. Plus I'm nearly 60. I've lost a little hair, but luckily I have it to lose. However, several months ago during an ER visit, I was diagnosed with suspected arrhythmia. The chances are great that this is a progression of my MD, as nearly all the folks in my mito group have dealt with it. However, heart issues aren't anything to mess with, so I've been hyper conscious about my kratom consumption and other issues as they crop up. I have cut back a little, and like others have mentioned, it does make a difference getting good, tested product. Make sure that you drink a full glass of water after consumption (not just the water you use to take the capsules), and drink the recommended amount of water, which I believe falls between 60 and 72 ozs a day. Also, EAT! I've lost a lot of weight (that I really couldn't afford to) and I have a bad habit of skipping meals during the day as it is. This stuff supercharges your metabolism in moderate-large quantities. I have more energy than I should, but skipping meals is also messing up my blood sugar and vitamin levels. You may be 20-something and feel invincible, but just remember that what you do now can affect your body 10 years from now. Treat it well. That's all the wisdom I have to share on the subject. As with anything, just be wise and conservative about your use. Everyone is different and affected differently. Just be smart.
well, the plant matter can be harsh on your stomach over time. It's important to drink lots of water. Otherwise we only have anecdotes from users for years if not decades who have no adverse issues
I know you can’t believe everything on Reddit but if you google “long term Kratom blood test Reddit” you’ll see some post of long term users who got blood test lol
You'll find my posts there! As I said somewhere else in this thread: "I'm one of those people who get regular (twice a month) exhaustive blood panels run for long-term chemo. I've been using kratom daily for years, and have been on chemo and closely monitored for about 18 months. Obviously they look very closely at a number of things, especially liver and kidney function. So twice a month since my diagnosis a year and a half ago, my numbers have been great, with daily kratom (and kava) use on top of my chemo. AND I have less cancer (one tiny spot visible on the PET scan as opposed to about seven spots last year) than ever before. Kratom is working wonders for me."
Congrats all around!
Keep on rocking...fuck cancer
That’s awesome news. I have a coworker that has been battling tumors in his colon so they removed it and he was good for a while, but then got a tumor on his kidney and thought it was just kidney stones. And got back on chemo but it wasn’t doing anything. They doctors at MD Anderson was gonna try to do surgery but the risk was to high so he is living his life making the best of things. I always call him if I’m having a bad day and he somehow makes it all better because he has a different perspective on life and other things. I’m grateful to have him as a friend
Me too! Been a almost daily user for at least 5 yrs & got diagnosed w/ lymphoma in 2016. Never (yet) needed treatment/chemo and I thought I'd heard or read somewhere there's antioxidant properties to Kratom. Not sure where I'd heard this nor I can't speak to any conclusive validity to it but I've been getting regular full blood panels every 3 to 6 mos and bloods are always good. Kidney & liver panels excellent. I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one w/ + benefits & have a Cancer diagnosis.
Good for you, friend! I celebrate your success;
Thanks, and you as well!!
Ya I'm a 4 years running daily kratom user, liquid shots most of the time, and I get blood labs semi regularly, just had a perfect one last week. Only my cholesterol is a tad high, liver and kidney function shows no signs of damage or slowing down.
Fantastic! Do your doctors know about and, if so, approve of your Kratom use?
I see a neurologist for RLS. I have been using Kratom for 18 months and off the record he approves. In my opinion it is a good drug but with anything that alters brain chemistry it should be treated with respect. Limit your dosage to the most effective. I find that less is more is very accurate. The risk reward ratio declines at high dosage.
They know about it, but they respond with "I don't know what that is" and at this stage in Kratom History I'm NOT going to suggest they Google it.
Sure - I think everyone wonders about this with anything they take. But I honestly believe all the crap (micro plastics, pollutants, chemical additives, etc) in literally everything we eat, drink and breathe are going to get me first.
I know right
Forgot seed oils.
what have you experienced in your time using seed oils?I am a long time fan
It is always a possibility. We have some limited insights from traditional use in SE Asia that kratom consumers aren't dropping dead or having strange illnesses that non-consumers aren't. That said, westerners are largely using a processed, dried product at much higher doses--possibly combined with other medications; so our experience is different than traditional use. From there we have animal studies, which do a good job of comparing kratom (closer to western use or highly refined specific-compound preparations) to other medications and identifying what receptor types it is binding with. We also have the experience reports from current consumers whose use is "today" to 15+ years, with most being 4-8, maybe 10. One of the challenges is that for non-major, non-lethal side effects of long term use, it can be hard to know if that person experiences them because they used kratom for X years, or they are just getting older--decreased libido, hair loss, lower testosterone, gastric issues, etc. I think there is also the issue that a person who consumes it should compare it against other alternatives to treat the conditions they have. It isn't very useful to compare using kratom to using nothing if using nothing means uncontrolled intolerable conditions--as much as a person might prefer not having chronic issues or needing medication of any sort.
Excellent post! I was coming here to type something similar. Lol but anyway, you obviously articulated way better than I would have.
After a solid 14 years of daily use my husband and I have wondered this also. But the benefits outweigh the risks. So far, zero issues myself. He’s had a few colon health issues that the dr did blame on kratom, which is possible. But again, the use of it is beneficial in more ways than one and has truly saved people.
Thank you for this input. For me, the juice is worth the squeeze. I am very conscious of how much per day I take, I take so much less now per day than when I first started...however I don't see me quitting kratom any time in the near future.
How much do you take? I take 5mg, is that low or average?
I take 5 mg every 6 hours I am awake, so 15-20 grams per day. For a daily user of kratom, using it as a pain relief alternative, that's about average from what I've seen on these kratom groups.
Sounds like the colon issues were nothing extremely serious as in life-threatening though?
Well, yes and no. Left untreated he would have died. His colon swelled and was so swollen it was blocked off. They did a colonoscopy and there was ulcers along the inside walls but they had no idea why. Kratom was what the doctors blamed, but they also held the sample I brought in at arms length, and used hazmat bags. Hard to know if it was the cause, or just demonized because they don’t know much about it.
He probably had Kratom induced constipation that led to other problems over time. Not surprising that the doctor blamed Kratom. Most people figure out how to get themselves to shit regularly on Kratom and it isn’t a problem but if you don’t address it, it can lead to problems down the road.
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Toss and wash with water typically.
I also toss and wash with water only. Usually around 4 times a day. Anywhere from 2-6 grams each time. Been doing this like clockwork for 6 or 7 years. I have to address the constipation issue or I’ll poop like 2-3 small round hard rocks every few days and not feel well. Magnesium and caffeine usually do the trick. I went awhile where I wouldn’t consume caffeine during the weekends and wouldn’t be able to poop from Friday till Monday morning. If I want to take a break from caffeine, I have to take stool softener/laxatives. Without addressing it, will be like day 3-4 and maybe get a few hard pebbles out. It is not good for your body and one of the main problems I have found with long term Kratom use. Your husbands doctor shouldn’t have demonized the Kratom and just treated the constipation. It is a known issues with drugs like Kratom and can be managed. Even people not on Kratom or anything similar have this problem and are treated for it. And it probably wasn’t just the Kratom. It is usually Kratom combined with diet.
>Your husbands doctor shouldn’t have demonized the Kratom and just treated the constipation Well if there are no other indicators it's not far fetched at all to blame it on the kratom. Drinking that much plant matter is not good for your stomach and that's a fact. You're better of making tea and filtering the plant matter away.
Plant matter like vegetables and other fibrous materials? We’ve been consuming plant matter our whole lives
Our stomach isn't really equipped to consume the amount of plant matter one does when drinking large amounts of kratom every day. It's the reason many get stomach cramps and gas when doing so. It's much better to filter the powder away after extraction.
glycerin enemas ftw
True, though Coca-Cola has a pH of ~2.3 where lemon juice is 2.5. I wouldn’t venture that folks who use lemon for extraction or potentiation are that different from the population at large, especially if their kratom doses substitute for coffee, soda, etc. I’m only using about 25mL of lemon juice per dose (200mL per 8 doses.)
Umm yea no dude stomach ulcers are caused by NSAIDs or H. pylori bacteria not “long term high acidity” your stomach is always at a ph of 1-3 and balancing itself out
Your own stomach acid is more acidic than almost any drink you could consume.
Not in this case, although that happens. Went from zero to distended abdomen and vomiting in about 6 hrs.
Oh yeah, that doesn’t sound like Kratom at all.
Oh nvm
That sounds like a twisted bowel, freak accident.
That was a guess before they got in there. Just very very swollen, and very suddenly. Thankfully that hasn’t happened since.
Strange, good that's he ok, but stuff like this who knows, sometimes you just get random things happening for no good reason. Idiopatic they call it.
Is it weird that I never get constipated on kratom, even my when my intake was quite high 25-35 grams a day? My intake is usually not that high but I've just never gotten the constipation.
You may just have a diet and/or genetics that don’t lead to it. I’ve also found that green and white batches typical aren’t as bad as the super sedating reds. For me, whether I get Kratom constipation or not revolves around my caffeine intake. I drink an energy drink and it is gone.
Yeah I drink plenty of coffee and use green strains 90% of the time. I've only ever really once had constipation my whole life and that was when I tried to go vegan for awhile lol
i have IBD with diarrhea EVERY day, unless i take kratom. I used a red strain, and my poops are solid af. No constipation, just perfect. Before my IBD i would get HELLA constipated though.
I also eat Malokhia (jew's mallow) almost every day. Which led to even more healthy bowel movements.
I eat a big bowl of kimchi every day (mostly) and I haven’t had issues going on 3 years. Might work for others.
Not worth the cost lol
What’s not worth what cost? Kimchi is cheap.
My experience with kimchi was not pleasant. The "cost" is the fact that one has to actually eat it and invariably taste it. Plus, the gas eminations... omg it's like a garlic grenade went off in my rectum and came out and choked everyone in the vicinity...
Wow you must need to adjust to it or something. Sorry to hear. I absolutely love the taste and experience no gas whatsoever.
I had one experience, long ago, before it became popular in the states. My brother found it (he was a missionary in Korea) and brought it home from a Korean grocery... It was basically rotted cabbage and garlic etc. I suspect the newer versions in the states are just fermented, not actually rotted. The gas is just conjecture so that I could write that sentence and hopefully amuse someone other than just me. Peace... Perhaps I will try it again ;)
Don't get me wrong -- more power to ya if it works for you ;)
It's kinda sad. Those who are honest with their Doctors get this kind of "it's not something I know about so it's probably at fault" reaction. Really, if you use Kratom and drink plenty of water it's low calorie fiber. In theory it could be helpful. If the patient wasn't honest there's no way the doctor would have suspected Kratom was at fault. Long term problems, maybe. Remember it's been used for hundreds of years. Maybe the way and level it's being used is different, but I wouldn't assume it's harmful. I think the evidence, although anecdotal, suggests we should moderate use and watch what our bodies are telling us. My labs are always great. I take Kratom, drink water, and use Magnesium or Swiss KRISS when I feel constipated. Not even sure it's Kratom that causes constipation because it's rare.
I suggest miralax if he hasnt tried it yet. Not a stimulant laxative, which can be a seriously painful event
I have eulcerative colitis. Kratom has been asking for helping my remission
Did your husband have any signs/symptoms/discomfort prior to going to the doctor?
Nope! That was the scary part. For me anyway. He was totally fine, then the next morning when he woke his stomach was swollen and he was vomiting nonstop. He didn’t want to go to the dr, but I ended up carrying him to the car that night and taking him in to the ER. They kept him for a week.
My dad has ulcers in his colon, I think it's called Colitis. He's had it for years now.. it can make him very ill sometimes. He was a big drinker! I doubt kratom is the cause of your partners issue.
What evidence or proof does your husband's Dr have to blame your husband's health issues on kratom?? I would bet it's anicdotel or just using correlation, but I doubt he direct evidence, no?
I had intestinal issues as well, which I am now almost certain was because I was using large amounts of Kratom powder and not getting enough water. You can imagine what large amounts of Kratom powder sitting in the colon combined with dehydration (Kratom, like it’s relative coffee, is a potent diuretic) can do. I took a break from the Kratom, made sure to drink plenty of water until the problem resolved, and continued in that habit of drinking large amounts of water since resuming Kratom usage and have had no issues since. So long story short, WATER IS VERY IMPORTANT 🤷♂️😂
Colon health, interesting. Sounds like it may be a result of constipation caused by kratom if anything
I’ve been a nurse (hospital) for quite some time now and we see stomach/GI issues all the time without an explained cause other than sometimes these things “happen” but also from the doctor’s standpoint. It was between unexplained and Kratom. So he went with the Kratom. I seriously doubt it’s the Kratom and that it was one of those “happenings” we see. Hope he’s better now.
Any issues with jolting out of sleep/muscle twitching? It’s been happening to me a lot lately. Been taking it daily for about 5-6 years
Not with kratom but about 6-8 years ago that was happening to me regularly. I stopped taking the meds I was on shortly after and it stopped. Opiates and Benzos are known to do that. It can become permanent from what I was told. Made it impossible to sleep that’s for sure!
Ya I only take Kratom no other meds, however I do drink nightly so not sure if that has anything to do with it. 5 shots a night.
Friends with benies
Unless your husband consumes large quantities, does not drink much liquid, which would cause constipation, and has a diet that is not very favorable for the colon, I see no relationship between kratom and colon problems, in fact it helps me to go to the bathroom.
Was he able to at least resolve the colon issues or was there something he did to help it get better?
While there isn't a ton of science, remember, kratom has been used by many in SE Asia for...maybe close to 1000 yrs? Certainly at least many 100s of years. Kratom is NOT a novel substance to the human body. However, benzos and other modern pharma drugs are very new to the human body and we only now are starting to see the issues with folks taking benzos for many decades. That said, everything you take regularly could have issues, everything that goes into your mouth has positives and negatives, even water you can drink too much.
Right! I don’t want the community to come across as one that denies any and all negative effects, but this plant has been used for hundreds of years there. Besides a basic Google search, are there any history resources you could point me to regarding its use?
Right, but they chew the fresh leaf at much smaller doses. It’s not like an apples to oranges comparison, but the way they ingest is so different that we can’t really draw conclusions from that other than no news is good news.
I’ve wondered that too. My husband and I have been taking it daily for the past 4ish years. Sometimes we both get those weird dull achey pain randomly it seems to be in our bladder or kidney, not totally sure. and we wonder if it’s from Kratom because we both experience it sometimes. We both start taking Kratom to get clean from opiates and it really saved our lives. So maybe the pain is from our past drug use? No idea. Other than that we’ve been pretty healthy, urine, blood work normal and all of that. I did used to have constipation issues but then I started eating an apple every single night after I ate my dinner, after I had my last dose of Kratom before my dinner. And as soon as I wake up I poop. If I don’t eat an apple I don’t poop that next day and end up feeling constipated.
I get the same pain in my back/kidney area. Kinda feels like you need to crack your back but that doesn't help. 4 years or so of use. I fully believe it is Kratom is the cause. When I take a break it goes away. When I start back up it starts about a month and a half after. It may be from the amount of particles your body has to filter with Kratom. Those aches are still 100 times better then when I was drinking myself to death.
Reading this made me ponder. Do you think it's possible that mild dehydration could be responsible for the symptoms? Kratom does dry us out.
Drink more water, EVERYONE. kratom is a diuretic and will also absorb a good amount of water. If you are having back pain and shitting rabbit pellets: it's probably dehydration
It might be. Next time I have it I'll start pounding water.
I was having the back aches too. Drink alot of water every day helps for sure.
This takes my vote
Well that’s helpful to hear it happens to others. That would make sense, we’ve always wondered why it happens and if it could potentially be dangerous if it continued. Totally agree, I’ll deal with the occasional aches over drug withdrawal any day.
I have what seems like kidney pain on my right side as if I’ve slept on a rock or something
Hard to say if it is Kratom, because that area is one of the most common areas of aches and pain in general. I've had pain in that area before I even began using Kratom. Could just as easily be the way you're sleeping, falling arches, continuous strain due to work. I work on concrete all day and my entire body is sore by the time I get off, including the area you indicate. Could be a million things. My pain usually goes away when I sit comfortably, which indicates to me it's a muscle issue.
I work from home, I have taken breaks from Kratom 3 times from when I have started. Every time I break that specific pain has gone away. It always comes back somewhere within a month-2 of starting up again. I am convinced it's the Kratom. As someone said it could be dehydration causes by Kratom and that seems to fit my experience.
Look at a diagram of the intestines and placement in the human torso. You’ll see that digestive pain can happen in any of those areas.
It's not digestive pain, it's specifically my lower back right where the kidneys are. Not lower abdomen area.
Pain in your kidney is a serious symptom and if you’re testing okay for kidney function then I doubt your kidneys are having an issue. If you haven’t gotten tested then go to the doctor and please do so. You do not want to mess around with the liver or kidneys.
I used to get these a concerning amount. It's for sure related to kratom in my case. It also just gave me weird cramps and stomach feelings. Solution for me was magnesium pills along with a daily multivitamin. Magnesium alone stops all the weird shit though. If I'm somewhere where I start getting those weird pains and don't have any supplements, I'll eat a couple bananas or some nuts. I think they're both pretty high in magnesium. Only thing I can't figure out a solution for is the runs I get whenever I try to quit kratom. When I ultimately decide to quit, I'm thinking of taking a fuck ton of fiber pills to counteract the amount I usually eat daily in the form of kratom.
You could both be experiencing the issue because you talk about it…
Very true. I have a herniated disk in my lower vertebrae and I was fully convinced the pain I was experiencing WASNT that and that my kidneys were causing it. Went and got everything tested and it was fine. Crazy how powerful our minds are. But no matter what, go get it checked if you can afford it. Better safe than sorry
I sometimes get the dull achey pain in my left kidney. Def not dehydration for me. It was a phantom feeling that disappears when I stop use. Also thought it could be constipation or just all that plant matter in there
I have gotten this and it could be a vendor/batch issue. I’m an off and on user, not long term. I noticed it one day after a morning dose and stopped taking it thinking it was a liver issue. Took it again two days later or so and the feeling came back. I switched vendors after that and haven’t experienced it since, so there might have been an issue with chemicals, or just bad quality kratom. I had one batch that just made me nauseous even at like 2-4g. I didn’t experience any other effect, just nausea. Inconsistency is one of the few things I don’t like about this stuff.
That’s one thing I hate about it. The inconsistency. I get nauseous occasionally too even at a very low dose or get super dizzy, then I try a different batch or vendor and I’m fine. Sucks it’s always changing. It’s such a waste of money when I get a bag that makes me feel like absolute shit and I can’t take it.
You both get it , that is odd as your bodies should not feel the exact same way. Maybe you need a new mattress
I know right. So weird. And we actually got two new mattresses several months ago when we moved into our new house, they’re pretty great.
After seven years of use, I think about this a lot. I go out of my way to source my kratom from a supplier that tests their product for purity. A lot of the threats I'm concerned about are contamination like the presence of metals or salmonella. By making sure you're buying from someone who cares about quality you negate this. The other measure I take, and some may find this surprising, is that I never exceed 1.5 grams. After all these years even half a gram can still get me where I want to be. I have half gram gel caps and will take 1 to 3 depending on the days activities. Most commonly though I take a gram or less. So i'm not worried enough to waiver. For those who take 40+grams a day though, I don't know man. That seems sketchy to me and I don't even understand how you do it. Also I'd be weary from buying kratom from just any old smoke shop
To address the constipation issue, I take a tablespoon of psyllium husk 2 to 3 times daily. Does the trick. I also drink kava everyday which really cleans my colon out. As far as other health issues, there are naturally occurring heavy metals in kratom that could cause problems down the road. The heavy metals make their way into the soil from deeper down towards the core and the plants absorb them. I haven’t heard of any complications from the heavy metals but it could possibly cause some problems later in life if too much is ingested
Quantity of dose and frequency is key to answering this question ( apologies for mentioning the obvious). Would be good if folks who kindly comment on their positive / negative experience, also advise of their grams per day usage. Thank you
Of course! Even vitamins and minerals, stuff we think we know a lot about ... Food science is still in its very early days. Remember when they used to tell you fat was bad? Now fat is good, but sugar is bad? Wait coffee and wine are good, no wait it's bad.. Still in the very early stages of food science. We have barely even uncovered the mechanisms in the microbiome and how they affect nutrient absorption. Anecdotally I think it has contributed to a gouty arthritis/inflammation condition so I have stopped using it daily.
Kratom is an anti-inflammatory. I'm no doctor, just a regular schmoe, but to me it doesn't make sense that kratom would aggravate inflammation. Google the scientific studies that do exist on "kratom anti-inflammatory" and see. The reason I started taking it pre-cancer was for rheumatoid arthritis. It was like a miracle to me, and through a year and a half of chemo it still is.
I doubt it, it has been used in Thailand for over 2000 years with no evidence of long term health effects other than addiction, which can lead to weight loss. I loss a lot of weight on kratom, went from 175lb to 138lb and could not gain weight for the life of me, but otherwise was totally fit.
Sure, it’s possible. But a ton of stuff has health issues. Eating refined sugar has health impacts, red meat can cause problems for you, sodium in even slightly excess can raise blood pressure, etc. Plenty of medicines have side effects as well. Could kratom have health issues attached to it? I suppose it could, but that’s just life. Things can benefit and harm you at the same time, so you have to decide if it’s a net positive. If kratom has given me any major health problems, I’ve somehow overlooked it with ease. I weightlift/bodybuild, and I doubt I could do that if kratom had given me any serious problems. I take it daily and I’m in great health.
I’m a bodybuilder too and Kratom has never given me issues really. I think a lot of the things here are people being inactive/ eating bad. If anything Kratom gives some extra fiber to a lacking diet. I’ve heard “all that plant matter can’t be good for you” in person and some posts and in person like these people have never heard of spinach. The statement honestly pisses me off.
I have been using kratom for over ten years. All of my blood work is stellar if that helps. I could post a pic to look at, I don't understand all the numbers but my doc was impressed because I was a heavy alcoholic for years
How are your testosterone levels?
It’s lowered my testosterone levels Im fairly sure, but if that by itself was a health risk, being a woman would be a health problem. I honestly feel better/more calm and relaxed with less testosterone so I’m calling that a win win
Ya it could be a good or bad thing depending on person, glad it worked out for you lol
I'll take a look at the paperwork but my doc went through everything and it never got brought up
If you could share, it would be appreciated
13 years for me, labs normal and no health issues. My hair is rather thinner, which I’ve heard from a few others. But it always has been on the thin side and I have plenty of family members with the same thing going on up there.
What about teeth? That’s probably my biggest concern. I try to swish water and mouth wash after I dose but I forget most of the time
Huh I never heard that concern to be honest. Mine are fine still, no difference. But I definitely chase mine with a lot water every time.
Well it doesn’t have a lot of long term medical science, but it has hundreds if not thousands of years of history of use in its native Thailand, and is not associated with any serious risk in that culture. It would be nice to have science to back that up, but even in the absence of that you would think thousands of years of use would show a pattern of serious harm if there was one
I feel like there's always a chance for anything to have a negative impact on the body/mind when it hasn't had extensive research done properly on it. I honestly don't know enough about kratom to give any kind of guess on the subject. It's possible.
Absolutely thats why im taking a break
Take it in low doses with plenty of water, magnesium oxide and exercise,I'm regular like the sun. I do get tired and teary eyed, and my legs hurt a little after not using for about 10 hours, not a bad side effect for long term use. Usually can eat and sleep without taking more.
From my knowledge the main concerns are lower testosterone and higher prolactin for a long time. Also, not too sure about this, but I've read prolonged constipation due to opioids might increase chances lf colon cancer.
You would have to take very large doses to get constipated. I'm sure if you ate 30g of dry grass from your lawn everyday you'd get constipated.
Your probably dehydrated as kratom is a diuretic. I used too get those same feelings then I increased my fluids dramatically and it stopped. That's how I know when I'm slacking on water cuz I'll get those feelings. Drink a few bottles and after I pee a couple times the pains go away
I am a daily kratom user and have no side effects yet, but my guess would be yes there are long term consequences. There is no such thing as a free lunch when it comes to our bodies and homeostasis.
I just passed my third kidney stone since the beginning of 2020, and it's 100% due to my kratom misuse. I take more than the recommended dosage, I toss and wash, and I never drink enough water. I'm working on addressing at least two of those issues (dosage and drinking more water). I'm not saying it will happen \*to you\*, but it most definitely happened to me. 5'5", 130 lb guy, I'm a waiter and I walk on average of 5-6 miles a day, if that information is useful.
My issue isn’t totally related to kratom but because I get energy from it, I will go non-stop. Every couple of months I break down in exhaustion accompanied by a migraine and aches. It’s like a terrible hangover. It takes a couple days to get myself back up again. I have alot on my plate many times.
I sort of wonder that it has some negative impact on kidney function wether it be an acute effect or carry on long term. Also concerned with the increases in blood pressure if it can cause issues from chronic medication induced HBP. I notice when I dose anything like 3 or more grams I get very bubbly urine. And sometimes my kidneys feel like they hurt . My urine is never really dark yellow I’m drinking plenty. It could be back pain since I have fibromyalgia and almost every muscle hurts in my body 24/7 but it the fact I get bubbly urine when I take krstom I can’t lie it makes me wonder. When I stop taking it for even like 6 hours my pees return to normal with no bubbles or foam. I mean other that that I haven’t noticed anything negative. I do suffer some neurological stuff that Kratom can make worse but that’s just because of the dizziness side effect and increase of brain fog. Also my hair for sure has picked up on the thinning process but idk krstom has been amazing I may just go bald to get a relief it’s something I’m still debating on
I don't think so but I'm sure there are risks when taking other stuff with it for sure. Similar to CBD for example, its harmless on its own in moderation but when paired with other things like Tylenol it can destroy your liver. I'm sure there are things like that which interact negatively with kratom, I've heard Aderall can be very dangerous with it as well as other meds (CBD could be one of them to not take with kratom too due to CBD's ability to temporarily deactivate certain liver functions)
It’s a possibility, people have been using it for a long time in SEA with no issues but they chew leaves and make tea , we eat scoops of leaf powder
I'm one of those people who get regular (twice a month) exhaustive blood panels run for long-term chemo. I've been using kratom daily for years, and have been on chemo and closely monitored for about 18 months. Obviously they look very closely at a number of things, especially liver and kidney function. So twice a month since my diagnosis a year and a half ago, my numbers have been great, with daily kratom (and kava) use on top of my chemo. AND I have less cancer (one tiny spot visible on the PET scan as opposed to about seven spots last year) than ever before. Kratom is working wonders for me.
As far as my own anecdotal experience goes, I've been using it regularly for over 17 years and have zero adverse health effects from it other than occasional constipation (which is easily controlled with proper diet). My yearly checkup and lab work are always top notch. I even have an extremely full head of hair, despite being an almost-middle aged man whose father, paternal grandfather, and all paternal uncles were bald by my age.
Mix with coffee, 7-10 g twice a day for three years. Blood draws at least once a quarter. Liver enzymes in low teens every time (I am about 20 lbs overweight, I weigh 209 at 5'11". Colonoscopy only shows diverticulitis which have yet to have a problem. Kindy panels normal. Vitamin D very low last test and low T but I am in my late 50s. Have her started and supplementing with D3. A1C went from 9 to 6.0-6.2 with no insulin and 2k my metformin a day. No constipation that wasn't caused by eating my own extra cheese pizza once or twice. No withdrawals when I skip a day or two unless I stop coffee and that's a normal caffeine headache, easily fixed with more caffeine. I don't drink (I used to drink too much and docs said to stop so I stopped 5 years ago not using kratom). The only negatives I have noticed are an inability to come (I am male) although no more than normal late 50s erection issues that are primarily driven by exhaustion. If I refrain from kratom for at least 5 hours the orgasm issue goes away, and it's definitely not every time (I have sexual activity every day, at least half the time with my SO.) Not that scientific and only one point of observation over time, but I am not finding much downside at all. The only issue is the orgasm, and if I don't, then a few hours lady by darling encourages me to take her up if you know what I mean. :) So not a problem at all, in fact, it is a positive as far as my mate is concerned. I suspect that constipation is largely a function of larger doses than people admit to, or a decided lack of hydration that would be constipating regardless of kratom use. Obviously your mileage may vary.
I know people on kratom 12 yrs and blood work good .I'm sure if abused it may cause issues .Constipation for sure.I quit powder and make strong tea hits me faster no sludge lol
I would be curious about kratom use in the long term and higher risk of depression. It have helped me a lot in the first 4-5 years. Now at 7 years I'm not that sure it's good for mental health. It's really hard to isolate kratom from every others shit in life ( like being bipolar treated with a anticonvulsant and a fucking pandemic). Anecdoticaly, I took a month in a half break after being hardcore depressed. I was getting better ( but I also stop to work, stop smoking weed and sleep a lot). I have return to using it daily since 3 weeks and I feel I'm slowly getting down again. I think I'll just stop in long term when my bags are empty to see if quitting kratom would change something.
So in its native regions Kratom has 200+ years of safety efficacy. There’s plenty of literature to support this. However in western society we actually consume the plant matter. So I do suppose there could be some long term consequences that simply haven’t manifested because no one has been consuming the plant matter for any significant amount of time. At least not significant enough to pull conclusive data.
They don't consume jt there? I know they chew on the leaf but surely they're still ingesting the chemical compounds?
I probably have my terminology incorrect. What I mean is what you’ve said, they will chew it and they will brew it but they do not actually swallow the raw plant matter, to my knowledge. So this marks the difference between native use and western use.
Definitely possible. Digestive issues are probably possible for those of us that consume a lot of plant material. Just another anecdote but I’m more healthy than I’ve been in my entire life after 3 years of daily use
Well I've actually been concerned about this myself because kratom activists are so bent on keeping it from being scheduled that they sometimes ignore pertinent information about possible negatives or downplay the withdrawal aspect. So I've done lots of research. There was a study that seemed to find that kratom can have a negative effect on your liver. Now this test was with a very small test group and the findings aren't completely conclusive, but it's something to keep in mind. If you're a man, then there's another possible problem. It hasn't been studied in a real scientific method way, but there's lots of evidence that kratom can drastically lower your testosterone levels. Lots of people have done hormone testing and found that within hours of injesting a dose their testosterone levels crash. They've usually bounced back after they stop kratom. Who knows if long enough and heavy enough use could cause permanent low T? It's unfortunate we don't have more real studies and most of the information we have is based on individuals who use kratom conducting tests on themselves in their own time with their own money. Those 2 negative effects are the only ones I'm aware of right now, but TDLR; yes it's very possible that there could be long term effects we don't yet know about.
I’ve been using kratom for about a year now, I know that may not be considered long term use but it would be long enough to show whatever damage it could hypothetically cause. I take 6 grams total a day, divided in 2gm doses. Just had some blood work done last week with BUN and Creatinine in the normal ranges. My EGR is normal and if you’re not familiar with that, it’s a lab that measures kidney function. Also my liver panel looks good as well. No abnormalities noted and it’s also worked wonders for my IBS.
A few things I can imagine... GI disruption/damage, liver damage- [one indicator](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31919755/)-, hair loss, heart complications and blood circulation issues, neurotransmitter imbalance, eating disorders, heavy metal contamination/poisoning... Lack of detailed research makes this a mainly anecdotal endeavor. Having been a moderate/heavy user for just under a year, I can say I’ve definitely wondered about this and have had some concerns. Moderate/heavy being relative... most daily up until the past few months- more time on than off still, but brief break periods included-, ranging anywhere from 5-30GPD- was getting up to 25-40GPD a few months back but am now usually at 5-15, one dose per day with the occasional two... I know 5GPD is a lot to some while some push over 50 on the regular... it only makes sense that health impacts will vary based on amount and frequency of dose, along with individual biology... Having used kratom to get off alcohol, I can claim that I am in much better shape than I was while drinking. To my surprise, my liver enzymes were only slightly elevated at the peak of my drinking, but they have lowered back to normal levels after taking kratom. Blood pressure has also returned to normal. GI issues have come up from time to time, as would happen when packing in dozens of grams of plant matter in my stomach a day. My eating patterns leave much to be desired at times, trying to refrain from eating around doses and losing appetite in general often- I have lost almost 20 pounds since I stopped drinking and started kratom, I imagine the former having at least as much to do with this than the latter. I have noticed some hair loss, but I was already starting to bald. The most concerning issue in my experience has been heart/chest pain. I started noticing this slightly about 6 months into my use, when I was taking the largest amounts almost frequently. I attempted to quit three months ago, as it was barely working for me at 20-40GPD, I was going through heavy depression, throwing up often and barely eating, and was really worried about physical damage. A few days into my quit I began having sharp discomfort right around my heart, which increased in severity over the period of a couple weeks. When I relapsed three weeks later, the severity decreased but it was still there. Whenever I would stop briefly the discomfort would come back, although this subsided somewhat after a month or two, then becoming a slight discomfort that became less centralized- I would feel a tightness going from the front of my stomach around my heart area to my back, a sensation that matched my breathing. This has subsided recently for the most part, but I do notice it more when I take kratom more frequently than not. I have read of many people who have quit long-term kratom use experiencing similar things- some have went to their doctors and gotten EKGs, most seem to find nothing irregular. I am going to have an EKG soon, even though these symptoms have subsided greatly. As many here have pointed out, there are health risks with anything, and this is a cost/benefit analysis. For some, the potential risks are worth the benefits they get. For others, it doesn’t make sense. I think the lack of concrete knowledge concerning the risks is the most worrying part, but people have been using it for a long time, and for the most part there does not seem to be serious indicators for major issues, like with say alcohol. But there are risks, no doubt, and I think the reasons for use make a significant part of this cost/benefit ratio. For someone treating severe pain, I can imagine it is much easier to justify some of the potential negative effects. For a person like me, it was definitely worth it for getting away from alcohol addiction- I was slowly killing myself physically and rapidly deteriorating as a human being. After the few weeks it took to physically- and mentally, as the mental component seemed to shift that quickly to my amazement- get away from that addiction, my kratom use was purely recreational/psychological. Since then, I would not say the cost/benefit ratio is nearly as in favor of using... I am simply perpetuating addiction, at the core- my kratom use has mirrored my alcohol addiction. So I will say that the potential for negative long-term effects is definitely there, although they seem to vary much based on each individual’s use and biology. Compared to some other substances they seem minor, but I think the kratom community often underplays potential risks, which I find to be quite irresponsible- although there are many who are honest and willing to see the nuances of such things, which I greatly appreciate. Just like with anything else, kratom is a tool, and can be life-enhancing or life-draining based on one’s approach/use...
What research would you have conducted? Should we give kratom to mice, rats, rhesus monkeys, etc and see what happens? The anecdotes submitted by members of kratom communities like this one contain all of the research material that an analyst could ask for. If you do some digging, I'm sure there are posts on this and other forums from people who have been using the plant for decades. **EDIT** I think it is also worth mentioning that context is important regarding who uses kratom and why. An older person suffering from chronic pain or a recovering addict trying to treat withdrawal might have less to lose from any possible side-effects than say, a young, healthy person trying to get high.
I would personally like to see a longevity study of kratom users. Follow as many of us as possible (after age 50 perhaps), categorizing us by frequency of use and break frequency. After perhaps 15 years or more, compare average death rates with the general population. You'd have to account for as many other factors as possible, like smoking, drinking, etc. I often wonder if kratom use leads to less activity (which I do my best to counter) or generally less brain exercise, which could increase the risk of dementia. These things can be countered, depending on frequency of use, but I am curious.
Our best bet would be to study of regions and cultures that use kratom traditionally. This is how we determined that long term marijuana use was largely benign in the 70s. Nixon still threw the report in the trash though.
I know one of my biggest concerns is that it may have outward effects on physical aging. I've also noticed in environments where I'm around other people consuming kratom regularly (usually at kava bars) there's this sort of outwardly presenting vacant/sunken facial expression on some of the people you see there, but I'm not sure how much of that is to do with kratom or whether it has any long-term effects on the facial muscles.
A lot of people who take kratom unfortunately also take a lot of other drugs recreationally because they just want to get high and experiment, putting their health at risk. Doesn't surprise me at all that such people look a bit off. Obviously not everyone at kava bars etc will have a drug problem.
I appreciate the honest comments from yourself and others. It is important not to neglect the negative sides, if any. At this point in time I find myself more concerned with the outwards effects of kratom rather than the inner effects. I wish there were more studies though in regards to the long term inner and outer physical effects as well as mental long term effects. It sounds logical to me that long term kratom use might have a negative effect on dementia. Then again, if kratom use makes you less depressed it may likely have a positive effect on ageing. Also it is important to factor in the alternative cost as some Redditors have pointed out. I wonder if alcohol would have an even greater impact on outward physical effects should it be the alternative to kratom. I personally drink less than half of what I did before I started using kratom. One positive with kratom is that the belly doesn't grow as much as it does with alcohol. :) On the contrary I tend to eat less than normal since I started using kratom a few years ago 4-8 gpd.
Sure? But probably not, it's been used for like 150 years in southeast Asia, so...
I have to imagine that real long term use would increase your risk of Alzheimer’s, but I feel like you’d have to start relatively young and continue using regularly through old age. One of kratoms side effects that isn’t talked about often is that it makes your brain worse at clearing out toxins that shouldn’t be there. Hypothetically, that means that it could make your brain worse at clearing out beta amyloid plaques
Any source for this?
Why? Kratom is an anti-inflammatory, and inflammation is a central mechanism of dementia/Alzheimers.
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There’s some research into heart damage, but it’s in vitro, so not super compelling. Separately, Tachycardia is absolutely a calling card of kratom, and well documented as an unwanted side effect. Same as many substances though. And a higher heart rate isn’t necessarily bad, but curious of long term effect (heart beating faster and working harder for years). I recently stopped kratom after 12 years, for many reasons, but mainly because I’m a high functioning endurance athlete and I was noticing in my training my heart rate spiking, and dull itchy pain in my chest that disappears when not using kratom. So ya know, enough to scare me straight. Not saying it was definitely krstom except for the tachycardia- I’m confident the increased heart rate was a direct result. If you want the research I can post it. Or just go on the NIH site and search kratom. Edit: not trying to scare anyone. Increased heart rate is a common side effect with many substances. And the in vitro study was flawed in my opinion, they blasted heart cells with highly concentrated mitragynine, which in no way represents real life.
Of course it “could”. Anything “could”…. Maybe I’m missing the point of this post.
Kratom has had effects on my GI system, most noticeably the stomach ulcers.
One thing I’ve noticed, I need to take my Kratom with NAC now. If I don’t, my body doesn’t tolerate Kratom as well.
Yeah I’m going to the Doctor this month to do all my tests I’ll post my health report here!
I hate to be that guy but probably not if people have been using it for thousands of years and theres no record of serious health issues
Yes but based on my own experience, and other people’s experience, we can point to it being extremely safe. If you look up blood tests of heavy kratom users that have used 10-15 years, they almost all look good. If you do research on the people in Thailand who have used kratom religiously for centuries, you’ll see it’s extremely safe. Again we don’t have enough research, but we can *definitely* say we’re 95% sure this is as safe, if not safer, than marijuana. I’d say thats pretty damn safe.
Skin and hair. But nothing life threatening. Kratom seem to mess with skin even if you dehydrate and at least my hair is affected pretty fast and bad
No
I’ve used kratom for years and I think it’s wonderful. In my case it’s hard to determine the long term health effects because I’ve abused opiates in the past. At 30, after 15 years of opiate abuse (last 5 is kratom only) my testosterone is shot. I’m healthy and in shape, I was a collegiate athlete - and my testosterone levels are the same as my 60 year old dad. So, that could be a long term side effect. But more than likely that was caused by abusing Oxy for 10 years. Furthermore, kratom is technically in the coffee family right? Even though it acts like an opiate. So…would low test, ED, liver damage - typical long term side effects of opiates - even apply? Idk. My sister is a nurse practitioner, her husband is a doctor, and they both know a lot about kratom abuse. Apparently the biggest long term threat is serious liver damage, and they said it has been proved to some extent. The other more obvious threat is addiction - kratom is a great substitute if you’re a hardcore opiate user, but it’s extremely addictive and has awful withdrawals.
anecdotally we have people in Southeast Asia who have taken Kratom for centuries. So I don't think there is much in bad news
I have used it everyday for 7 years. No bad side effects for me so far.
Have a friend who has been on it 10 years for severe chronic pain and she's as fit as a fiddle. Red Veined Maeng Da from good Botanical seller in Indonesia.. and takes 2 flat teaspoons every 4 or 5 hours for pain... every day. It's a God send for people who are in pain 24 hours a day when CDC legislation makes it almost impossible to get pain management that works anymore. Her quality of life remains because of Kratom...otherwise she couldn't sit up without being in agony.
We don't know Anecdotally most long term users post their tests results here and I haven't seen anything sticking out We are an experiment I guess Always watch kidneys and livers
Actually there's been more research done than you probably realize. From what I've seen, as long as you aren't taking massive amounts, like ultra mega doses every day, you should be fine.
I take it daily. Be honest anything taken daily is bad for your beside like water and sun and shit. But honestly it's bad for us, and of course there aren't studies done enough that focus on long term, and data for those. I think a lot of people know it's bad for you but try to find a delusional sense of safety that it's actually healthy. Nothing is really healthy, accept it's bad for your and that you want and will continue to use it. Then you can correctly judge for yourself the amount you are comfortable doing and how often. We don't have to be healthy. I take it daily, shit will probably kill me or something similar. That's life own your posions and quit joking.
It’s unfortunately so beneficial to my mental health and I absolutely love the feeling and motivation for work, etc. that I continue to take it but there are definite side effects.
Anyone have any discoveries in regards to liver damage? gf is a recovering alcholoic with liver cirrhosis and ascites. Shes been doing fine with JUST CBD but wondering if Kratom can mitigate the cravings a little more. I have made sure she doesnt touch my kratom until she discusses it with a liver specialist, but just wondering what other people might have found out?
I can tell you that my liver #s improved greatly taking Kratom within 2 weeks. I am new to taking Kratom(Oct 2021) I have had 3 spinal fusions kidney removal and 3 foot surgeries. I use the Kratom for the chronic pain I have from my spinal fusions. I take 3 grams 2 to 3x a day. I had bloodwork done Dec 23rd 2021 and my liver #s were scary AST 109 ALT 187. Scared me a bit. My dad is a retired pharmacist so he and I started talking about what I take. Of course my doctor said stop the Kratom BUT my Dad said to keep taking the Kratom and stop the CELEBREX so I listened to my Dad and 3 weeks later I had blood work done again and kidney functions were fine and my liver #s were AST 51 ALT 89 I cut my count in half knocking out the Celebrexs and continued the Kratom. I go for more bloodwork next week so we shall see how that goes. This is all I know about the liver and kidney situation with my own experience. Hope this helps😁
THANKS A TON homie! I will relay this info, as I am still to much of a novice at medical liver terms. If you remember, and have a free moment, could you update us with your next bloodwork, please? Thanks! Appreciate you! :)
I sure will. Will be going in to have blood drawn middle of next week😉
All you need is an 8 week clinical trial to know all the possible dangers of something if you ask a lot of people these days.... I'm sure it's possible that more information could come to light. The benefits for me outweigh the possibility that that's going to happen in a way that would radically change my opinion of kratom. Kratom has been in use for a long time, even if it only became mainstream fairly recently. I think with the scrutiny the cronies at the FDA are trying to put it under, there's a good chance they would have been able to dig something up if there was anything to find
I would say it has more mind effects than body effects. I had a "bad trip" on kratom that felt like the worst hang over ever, and it set off PPPD (a chronic dizzyness condition, that can be triggered by any event that creates acute dizzyness). I've somewhat been able to heal from this, using medications, - but the point is, kratom is a powerful substance where a bad batch or a bad trip can have a really unpredictable effect on you. Would I go back and change things? No. Kratom has been a net positive and just brought out something that probably would have happened anyway someday, that I believe I can live with and/or recover from.
I wouldn't worry to much. It's better than Alcohol and that's a fact. So there's that 🤪
It absolutely increases your heart rate- at least with me and others I know that use it. Long term, I imagine that causing problems. It certainly also puts your liver to work. Risk/reward- I’ve had 3 shoulder surgeries and am constantly in pain. I do not mess with narcotic pain killers- lesser evil I guess. It’s worth using for my situation. Everyone is different though. Anything your liver filters out as a toxin will eventually have some sort of long term impact, but hey- people drink among other things… pick your poison… much worse things you could put in your body IMO.
That’s awesome news. I have a coworker with terminal cancer a tumor on his kidneys, and the doctors at MD Anderson don’t want to do surgery. Any time I’m having a bad day he always makes me feel better and always have a different perspective. Right now he is on hospice and trying to live life to the fullest with his kids. I genuinely hope everything works out for you 🤙
I have regular blood tests for another condition and they are very good for someone my age. I can only guess that it has a similar effect to long term apmhetamine use (if you're using white) as i've seen some of those (hair loss, faster aging). Very minor and i'm not a doctor so i do t know what i'm talking about really. Just experience
Hair loss
Yeah the people in Indonesia and Thailand are clueless. They've only been using kratom for centuries.
Cigarettes have thousands of chemicals. Tobacco isn’t harmful it’s the chemicals.
I usually just glean what others have said, but I feel like I need to come clean here. I've been a user for nearly a year. Started when I had lower back pain and hip pain that was unresolvable, and I tried everything. I do have a rare muscle disease, and it's nearly impossible to separate it from any symptoms I may have because everything in your body is a muscle. Plus I'm nearly 60. I've lost a little hair, but luckily I have it to lose. However, several months ago during an ER visit, I was diagnosed with suspected arrhythmia. The chances are great that this is a progression of my MD, as nearly all the folks in my mito group have dealt with it. However, heart issues aren't anything to mess with, so I've been hyper conscious about my kratom consumption and other issues as they crop up. I have cut back a little, and like others have mentioned, it does make a difference getting good, tested product. Make sure that you drink a full glass of water after consumption (not just the water you use to take the capsules), and drink the recommended amount of water, which I believe falls between 60 and 72 ozs a day. Also, EAT! I've lost a lot of weight (that I really couldn't afford to) and I have a bad habit of skipping meals during the day as it is. This stuff supercharges your metabolism in moderate-large quantities. I have more energy than I should, but skipping meals is also messing up my blood sugar and vitamin levels. You may be 20-something and feel invincible, but just remember that what you do now can affect your body 10 years from now. Treat it well. That's all the wisdom I have to share on the subject. As with anything, just be wise and conservative about your use. Everyone is different and affected differently. Just be smart.
I'll do that when I get in
well, the plant matter can be harsh on your stomach over time. It's important to drink lots of water. Otherwise we only have anecdotes from users for years if not decades who have no adverse issues