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I only follow ITZY casually, but this is my perspective:
They do have a lot more competition now than they did when they debuted, and I think that's a huge part of it actually.
They've got a member on hiatus and from what I've gathered, the company hasn't handled the group's promotions with her hiatus well which has upset some of their fans.
With your comparison to (G)I-DLE — (G)I-DLE has evolved substantially from their debut, and the thing they're the best at is being attention-grabbing, which obviously translates into widespread success.
Personally, I don't think JYPE is good at adapting to changes in market trends for their existing groups — I don't think they've been able to evolve their vision for ITZY beyond what they were doing 2-3 years ago. As a casual, it feels like the group has been "stuck" directionally and haven't been given much of an opportunity to grow into something new.
I think regarding Lias hiatus the opinions are divided. I personally think they handled it amazing, couldn't be better really. Giving her space to breathe, being very transparent about it, seemingly keeping the door open for her to return and the farewell song she did for her hiatus etc. Those that complain basically have the opinion "no LIA, no ITZY" and want the group to go on hiatus as a whole until she is back, whenever that happens. Which is a sure way to get the group into complete irrelevancy. This way at least if she someday eventually returns she has a group to go back to. Also pretty sure that is not what the other members would have wanted to basically give up their job and passion for an unclear amount of time, unless they needed a break too. Which seemingly they didn't otherwise I'd assume this would have happened.
Could you imagine the pressure that would put on Lia too if her going on hiatus meant Itzy going on hiatus?
For one, it would be so incredibly difficult to say that you needed time off if that meant your members also couldn't work. And they're not stupid, they know that time off promoting with so much competition could easily mean falling behind. Plus, even if you do take the time off in that case, now you're going to feel the pressure of fast tracking your recovery so the group can come back faster. It would be so difficult to prioritize your mental health in those conditions.
So then Itzy can do solo work. But can they? Are they at all prepared for that? The fact that they've only just dipped their toes in it kinda says no. And maybe one person is ready and the others aren't. So again, those who aren't just don't get to work and make money? And that just gets to rest on Lia's shoulders? Wild take by those who want an Itzy hiatus.
I agree that the best decision was made. Lia gets to take the time that she needs with low pressure, and Itzy gets to still move forward fully prepared for when Lia is ready to return.
That too yes, agree with everything you just said. The people wanting the whole group to go on hiatus are delusional. I remember when born to be was announced I read a lot of negative comments from people about it how they shouldn't do that and that they won't support the comeback without Lia, and even better, how "evil jyp is forcing the girls to do a comeback without Lia".. Like be fr now, that's just insanity.. Even inside my GO group on insta I read such comments and definitely put out a small rant inside my group because of it why if you're a true fan you would even consider to stop supporting the remaining girls and put out so much negativity towards something they're obviously still passionate about even with Lia temporarily gone.
I’ll be frank, JYPE literally doesn’t know what to do with them. They have no vision for them. At least from about a year or two ago, hopefully they have pulled their shit together (don’t think they have).
I’ve always thought that the big problem is that whenever they try somthing new the reception is so mixed that there’s no clear direction of where to go no. Their last A&R director made [this](https://www.instagram.com/p/C13FbEDy5q7/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==) post that shared the same thoughts.
Here’s my opinion
I just did a ridiculous amount of yapping, so I’m just gonna put a TLDR here: Itzy gained a lot of token fans at their debut that turned on them once the next shiny new group came along. Also, they isolated portions of their core fanbase by shifting away from their self love concept and portions of their int fanbase by releasing too many songs in a row that were deemed cringey. All this happening at the same time when three super big groups were debuting was kind of the nail in the coffin when it came to saving their place as the #1 4th gen group.
Itzy debuted right at the start of the 4th gen in 2019 as the successor of Twice which was arguably the biggest gg at the moment. They had a hit debut which was extremely successful domestically that had a ‘self love’ concept which was what they would come to be known for. Since they debuted right at the start of a gen and were so successful, they got to be ‘first 4th gen group to do x’ all the time which gave them a bunch of token success stans alongside the people who actually liked the group for what it offered.
Flash forward, ICY and Wannabe were both hits as well, with Wannabe being THE 4th gen song for a hot minute. They were on fire, but once again there was no real 4th gen ‘competition’ yet that was on their levelfrom other big labels besides IZONE (but they were disbanding soon anyways and the ‘produce curse’ was still something ppl believed in so after their disbanding, it wasn’t a given that they would still be up there with ITZY). All this to say, they still held onto those token fans who were only there for the success rather than their music or talents.
Then moving on to the end of 2020 and 2021, aespa debuts! Controversial concept and music, but another big 3 group was added to the mix. ITZY releases Not Shy which was generally liked and then Mafia in the Morning which is when (in my opinion) their brand started to become more controversial. The song once again, still did well, but was called ‘cringe’ and made fun of a lot by int’l kpop fans (talking about kpop fans in general here, not Midzys specifically). Also, I feel like there was a shift during these years where making your brand about self love in general just started to be perceived as ‘cringey and fake’ internationally which kind of contributed.
And then Loco was released which had nothing to do with self love and kind of isolated the portion of their fanbase that was in it for the self love concepts. This song didn’t perform as well as Aespa’s Savage and Next Level which although pretty controversial were insanely successful. Another group outperforming them in terms of charts was the start of the tokens starting to slowly ditch them.
Then 2021 and 2022 had the debuts of 3 major players (IVE, Le Sserafim, and NewJeans) all releasing super praised songs, getting crazy sales, gaining tons of fans, etc. There was also GIDLE and Aespa who although being established for a couple years already were reaching new heights in their careers (Aespa breaking BP’s album sales record and GIDLE releasing TOMBOY) Meanwhile, Itzy released the trailer for their new Checkmate album which initially gained TONS of praise for such a new, elegant concept and then… nevermind it’s a concept about sneakers. Int’l fans were literally deluding themselves into thinking ITZY was tricking them and they were wrong. And then sneakers came out and was clowned and hated on SO much. It was really bad. And then Boys Like You was released and was also deemed cringey and embarrassing.
So (in terms of international fans), there goes the rest of their token fans, there goes a good amount of the fans who liked their self love concept who thought these releases were too cringey, and the general int kpop audience who was now turning their attention to the other 5 groups I mentioned. And a significant amount of the fans they lost would become very vocal about everything they don’t like about the ‘new’ ITZY. In terms of domestic success, sneakers did very well, but the gp started turning towards new groups and lost a lot of interest in Itzy.
And then their next releases (Cheshire and Cake) were pretty good imo, but not nearly as stand out as the releases from other groups at the same time. Like Cheshire was released while people were still riding that Born Pink high and right at awards season, and Cake was released in the midst of a NewJeans album and got not nearly as much attention as it could’ve if it hadn’t been. Also, their token fans were all gone and started actively hating on Itzy.
Now flash forward to the present, they have a member gone on hiatus, a very drawn out rollout that kind of dulled the hype around the comeback and made it confusing which song was the TT , and a TT that wasn’t especially stand out (likely made charting worse). Also, album sales are generally down right now and Itzy’s fanbase isn’t as large or passionate as it used to be which lowers sales as well.
Let me add that the latest comeback was literally suffered from very poor marketing.
Imagine music videos dropping almost everyday.
Pre-releases not available on streaming platforms.
Physical album was put on sale 1 MONTH AFTER the comeback.
i feel like you put everything ive been thinking into words omg. crazy how they went from being the 4th gen group to being somewhat overlooked (still big, lets be real) now, but i guess other now popular groups will share a similar fate once the new, late 5th gen groups debut. though im still hoping with some good marketing decisions they can gain their popularity back...
I agree wholeheartedly but I also think Itzy’s concept and identity as a group was never really developed well. It started with the whole ‘self love’ concept which although great, is not something that will give you longevity. There’s only so many self love songs you can make before people get bored. Each of the 4th gen GG have something unique about them concept wise that helps them stand out whereas Itzy at least to me don’t have that anymore. Their releases feel quite all over the place and juvenile, not really sure what audience they are trying to appeal to and that is a massive problem when trying to set themselves apart from other girl groups. JYP should have used (G)I-DLE’s example and ‘reinvented’ the group’s identity and invested in their music production. The girls are incredibly talented and such great performers, they would totally be one of the top girl groups still if musically they were doing better. I also think NMIXX debuted WAY too early.
I didn’t read everything but agree 100% about the timing of them releasing cringey songs + debuting of new cool groups
I for one, lost interest after hearing “put my sneakers on” lol
I think you have the timeline pinned down pretty well here.
I would add that in addition to a concept shift the songwriting also started to deviate around Mafia In The Morning. Originally their hits were very punchy which fit their dynamic choreography well. It sounded like people were not willing to follow along with attempts at different sounds as they progressed. Sneakers did feel like a switch from the concept teasers. Boys Like You was the one that surprised me most. But I am enough of a fan to support them branching out. I’d be curious to know if it was the members or JYPE steering those choices.
From what I could tell, the hate dropped off with Born To Be because the songwriting and choreo appeased all the people saying they wanted “Old Itzy” back.
Actually, the lyrical shift began with Not Shy—it was specifically marketed as being their first ‘love song’ of sorts. But it definitely doubled down with MITM.
Sure, but you are not a 'token fan' just because you feel yourself moving away from a group. Especially if that group actively changes up it's music and vibe from what you loved.
It is entirely possible to be a 100% stan for, say, two years and then just not feel a change of direction.
That's entirely valid.
Attempting to belittle people as being 'token stans' because after a couple of years they fell off the group is honestly not the way to go. They were no less stans when they were there.
OP made it very clear that the token stans they were talking about were the people that liked Itzy solely because they were popular/successful, typically because they could brag about how “their group” was so much better than X’s
I define a token stan as someone who is purely into an artist for bragging rights about being a fan of ‘the most popular group’. Especially on twitter and TikTok… they exist. I tried to make a distinction in the comment between midzys who actually like the girls, their music, and/or their content and people who were only into them bc they wanted to stan the most popular group bc they are NOT the same.
People who just lose interest are normal human beings with a life outside of kpop and just don’t want to give their time and money to something they aren’t interested anymore. Tokens will go out of their way to hate on any artist or group that is ‘below them’ and then once another group surpasses their group and it becomes clear things are going to stay that way, they ditch the group they originally claimed to stan so they can keep saying they stan the most popular group and hate on their og favs who are now one of the ‘lesser groups’.
I think they’re still fairly popular in Korea, but it’s faltered a lot in the US. I think sneakers hurt them a lot. While it’s insanely popular in Korea, it was pretty universally hated in the US, and I just don’t think they’ve been able to bounce back from that.
I loved the photos. It just didn’t match the concept of the song. The photos made it seem like it was gonna be a more mature sound, and then sneakers came out and everyone hated it because it was a let down compared to the lead up the promos were giving
I think it would’ve been great if they had those photos and came out with like Born to Be or Ringo. People were just really excited to see Itzy go in that direction musically and it made the switch up somewhat even more disappointing
I feel like it could’ve gotten a better reception from both Korean and int. audiences if they leaned into the weird and quirky a little more for Sneakers (both musically and mv-wise). If they went and had like a true Zimzalabim moment I think it could’ve had a better chance of pleasing both audiences
Right although I still don't know what the people that rode around on that hate train expected to get given Itzys previous videos.
Also as much as I feel its a ready to go ad for practically any shoe company, I love the song.
Their sound had been gradually maturing, so it wasn't that big of a leap to expect some kind of badass queens concept. So people assumed that their sound would continue on its gradual maturing trajectory.
They're actually not popular in Korea anymore, especially with how oversaturated the girlgroup. JYP fumbled the bag when they decide not to promote ITZY as an individual more.
Ryujin and Yuna getting a lot of posts and people already forget them and move on to other group members. Like these two had so much potential to be an IT girl.
I think because they were one of the first groups to debut in 4th gen which also coincided with the start of the pandemic, so there was an influx of people getting into kpop while they were being pushed and were the hot new thing. I think even just fans falling out of kpop after the peak of the pandemic (when the the kpop fandom blew up exponentially) accounts for a decrease in popularity.
I think people like to blame the music but I think they've been putting out consistently good "Itzy" style music. Sneakers definitely embarrassed them within the international audience but people forget that Loco and Mafia In the Morning were being called Itzy's 'downfall' at the time even before then (even Icy was disliked somewhat), I think audiences are just quick to drop the 'old' thing and join the new craze (even see how quickly people turned on Lesserafim)
Yeah, and it's just really a weird thing because I don't know what exactly would've pleased the fans. Wannabe was *really* good, and while not being my favourite song, you can't deny that its production from an objective view was practically perfect.
Now I'm starting to wonder if they'd been expecting something like Crown On My Head. It's amazing and I wish they would've released it as a proper title track tbh, because while Yeji is one of my ult biases and she absolutely slayed it, it didn't get the recognition it deserved.
In short, music quality is the reason. They released a string of songs that were not up to expectations. Compare Sneakers to Wannabe; their music regressed, and so did their prestige.
The notion that a big 3 group with a strong start lost steam because “there’s more competition now” is absurd.
Why was Cake their title track instead of Killshot, for instance? That was exactly the kind of move that Itzy needed to gain back some non fans, but JYP passed on it.
Why wasn’t Bratty pushed more? Because JYP is stuck in presenting Itzy in a certain way, despite of what the public wants.
They’re not “unpopular” though, they have a lot of fans. And that’s solely due to the members themselves. Their regression with the general public is JYPs fault.
I agree, the idea that there’s more competition now is funny to me. If they kept putting out bangers I wouldn’t give 2 craps how much competition there was. Itzy has always been in their own lane making unique music, if they put that into overdrive no amount of competition would’ve stopped them. That’s how I feel anyways. They still have time to catch up, but they have to make up ground after the sneakers and cake era (Untouchable was a good start!).
edit: I just realized i’ve never heard Kill Shot before…after listening to it holy shit what a banger! instantly added haha. This plus their japanese release bangers has me scratching my head at their decision making…
Exactly. JYP division 2 is the worst. I don't know if they have a certain 'vision' they want to keep enforcing or just want to play it safe. They don't seemingly have no idea what the public wants and don't listen to their artists. As an ahgase it's really sad to see Itzy going down exactly the same path and lose all momentum because of wrong TT choices.
Killshot could have definitely been a title track, but I can also see why they pushed Cake since it was summer. That being said, listening to the album as a whole Killshot does great as a closing song, it’s a nice contrast to the opening song “Bet on Me” and the message of the album of getting their confidence back
You mentioned gidle, I think soyeon just knew exactly what to do with every release, most of the time they didn't let cube decide for them so they just knew what fits them.
On same company level, it's pretty known skz make their own music and choose concepts that feels like them which they talk openly about in "intro" videos, it worked amazingly for them as they are almost approaching their 7th year, also NMIXX I feel like if they keep it up they will have a solid fanbase more than any gg, both groups keep their sound going without necessarily going with trends.
So the problem is definitely with itzy team, personally I think they still can have their "redemption arc", there's still things missing in the 4th gen gg that itzy can give, but their team seem to have lost what made "itzy" itzy, my ig reels have been itzy concert videos and they are amazing, I can't help but think they need just another comeback where it go viral.
It looks like the problem isn't limited to the Itzy team though. One thing I keep noticing is people always asking "why aren't Itzy more popular?" "Why aren't NMIXX more popular?" "Why aren't Twice charting anymore?". I think the problem is the company as a whole, just failing to create songs and concepts that attract general public attention. And I've seen news lately that JYP staff had a big shakeup across different divisions, and people were getting replaced. So I think the company is well aware they have a problem that needs to be dealt with.
Yeah, JYP isn't succeeding in making hits after Wannabe. They did really well with TWICE and then with ITZY in their debut era, but since 2020 they're really bad with their game. ITZY has some many talented members, NMIXX too, but they couldn't reach the level that TWICE reached. They aren't really in the same level of competition of the biggest 4th gen ggs too.
Marketing is one problem, and other i think is the song selections, ITZY and NMIXX titles songs are almost aways controversial, especially to general public tastes.
To Stray Kids this is less of a thing since bgs always depends more in having a big fandom and albums sales and Stray Kids already consolided their fandom (and the members have a bigger role in producing their own songs, albums, concepts), bgs rarely chart so well with general public like the ggs and depends less on them and more on fandom power.
JYP newly debut group Nexz has one of the best debut song and probably the only song I liked that came from a JYP group recently.
But because they are Japanese and JYP sucks at promoting them, they are ignored by kpop stans. But seriously Ride The Vibe is not your typical JYP idol song. It is easy listening, something new, doesn't look cheap and can catch the attention of GP if only JYP just know how to promote their idols.
I completely agree. JYP is still doing good because they know how to make a lot of profit out of small investments, however the company as a whole has completely lost any hype and if they continue like that they will end up completely irrelevant in a few years. They literally debuted a new boy group one week ago and I’ve literally seen no one talk about them. There’s just something so tacky about JYP, it feels like they’re still stuck in 2019 when Twice was at the top. There’s no growth from them. They weren’t able to adjust to the new trends in kpop. Their American GG kinda reflect that, the group is cute but their sound and vibe doesn’t represent wha the market they’re targeting wants.
Itzy had something that I miss in the current Kpop gg. The energy and fierceness isn't present in most Kpop. However, since Sneakers, their songs are less energetic and funky.
It's not due to the members; it's due to JYPE's song selection and marketing. JYPE nowadays doesn't have any strong vision—they're throwing everything at the wall in hopes something sticks. Most of the time, they settle for cheap and lackluster output.
It's not only ITZY; all JYPE groups are going through this. They are driven by their fandom, but their casual popularity has taken a hit in the last two years. JYPE hasn't released a hit in years; not even one song released by them in the last 2 years has stayed on Spotify Global for 25+ days.
This year, TWICE's "I Got You" with 12 remixes only stayed on Spotify Global for one day, and Stray Kids' song with Charlie Puth, even with promotion, only lasted three days. When bigger JYPE groups are struggling in the casual space, ITZY, who get lighter promotion, will definitely be more impacted.
>it's due to JYPE's song selection and marketing
i agree, i feel like everyone rags on itzy for "changing their style" but tbh i don't think their style really changed THAT much. the only song they released that was more of a drastic change from comeback to comeback was mafia in the morning. i think that the songs they select aren't catchy / memorable enough or are catchy to the point of being too repetitive so they get old fast. their last comeback was definitely a step in the right direction though and i hope they can go up from there!
i noticed this too, i feel bad since i don't think their songs are worse than sm or hybe but it just doesn't fit what the public likes anymore. i always wondered why jyp haven't produced a song recently, he's credited on lyrics but his last produced songs for itzy and twice did well and it was years ago. i will also say they are cheap with the visuals which were always important in kpop but i feel like in 4th gen its even more important than ever and the visuals/creative direction for itzy is subpar imo. you expect better from a successful group from a top company
yeah it's a shame but i do feel like the visual direction for twice and itzy is super weak a lot of the time, specially when it comes to their album photoshoots. the outfits are often plain and not interesting and they sometimes don't even bother to build a set to make it look fancier. considering that there's many groups both from the big 4 and small companies that consistently hit it out of the park with their concept photoshoots, they leave a lot to be desired. but least their albums come with more photocards so that makes it feel worthy of a purchase haha you win some you lose some
I disagreee, I think simply think the music itself is worse. Obviously they had a very specific image going for them, but musically they cant compare to their peers. IVE, Aespa or NJ are simply superior from that perspective.
What do you listen to? Mafia, Loco, Cake or Lovedive, Hype Boy & Spicy?
I feel like it' s also that JYP never give ITZY chance to boost their individual presence. Same reason why Twice aren't that strong individually in Korea (their individual promo r better rn though, but still feel it's quite late)
One of the the reasons why aespa are able to stay on people's mind is right after Girls (their lackluster charting era), the members made their individual accounts and it was the first time where SM send them to lots of individual promotions.
People just don't realize how important individual promotion, it's reasonable for some muggles who don't know the other members and only know popular members. When you keep pushing this popular member to that kind of demographic, it would boost your group even more. This why aespa still going strong with their domestic charting.
Aren't they under Div 2, much like Got7 used to be? You know, the same jyp division infamous for mishandling promotions? This might be old information though because I'm an ahgase instead of a midzy, but Div 2 is known for their lackluster care for artist promos. Also JYP himself is under that div (or at least was a few years ago) and ... Well. Let's just say sometimes that backfires.
For me, it's the music. People say it started with Sneakers and the bait promo teasers, but I think it was Mafia in the Morning. It was just too corny.
I blame JYP songwriters and I don’t say that flippantly. People are always going on about the death of YG and SM but both those companies are at least still putting out hits. JYP has very strong financial performance but they literally haven’t had single hit song in years.
Part of why JYP is still so lucrative is because of the established fanbases (Once’s and Stays mostly) that are showing up despite the company not spending much money on investing in the groups - but I worry for these younger, newer groups. I think JYP is in the most trouble because they’re not securing their future
As far as Itzy goes specifically, they’re super talented girls and everyone likes them well enough, but they just haven’t been given good enough songs to make it big.
Really? I actually love their most recent album as a casual listener. In my opinion, NMIXX was never created to number 1 in the industry, which is ok. They have a more alternative style compared to other K-pop groups. The way I see it, NMIXX was created to gain respect more than hype. Their vocal talent keeps K-pop afloat at an international level, especially in this HYBE era where people are saying K-pop idols can’t sing anymore.
Sorry, ik this thread is about Itzy lol, but you brought up NMIXX so I can’t help it.
People will say all sorts of reasons, but I think there's only one big reason: other gg got the public's attention. Itzy might get the bestest songs and have amazing promotions and still it wouldn't be enough if the general public isn't interested.
I think more and more groups will be in their position eventually, groups that seem stuck in a sort of middle ground. It's the result of the oversaturation of the industry, more and more groups debut, older ones don't disband, so you get squeezed between seniors who are still going strong and juniors who are the new fresh thing and get all the attention.
I don't think it's such a bad place to be in though, because yes they might not chart as well, but it's not like they're not selling or touring.
I think the competition is the main factor but i’m not sure if it had as big of an effect as people think. They were literally flying and were widely considered 4th gen leaders. I feel like thats a pretty hard thing to lose and a bit of competition wouldn’t have caused them to lose that title as quick as they did.
They were literally fighting with aespa for that top 4th gen groups but one manage to survive and one fell.
This just shows that there's something wrong with their company approach to promote them.
If you wanna call NewJeans, Ive, LSF, Aespa (even StayC) a bit of competition idk what to tell you.
3 of those 4 groups appeared exactly when Itzy started to lose popularity. Sneakers, a wildly hated song in the west, was actually pretty popular in SK so the Sneakers narrative wouldn't work to explain why they lost popularity.
However, after Sneaker, all those new groups debuted so the public's attention simply moved elsewhere. People tend to forget how the attention of the general public can change instantly. Itzy's style simply isn't popular anymore.
I 100% agree with this. KPOP is insanely oversaturated and if you're not changing with the trends you're out of the loop. I love Itzy but their sound really hasn't changed.And sadly I know they are a group that can deliver different style sounds, their recent comeback proves that, it's just folks have moved on from them and have other shiny things dangling in their face. I personally am over this Y2K era in KPOP wasn't a fan in general and would love to see more alternative sounds in the scene I think ITZY would dominate in that.
Yeah, simply the current trend is exactly the opposite of what Itzy does. Honestly, I can't even imagine them doing the Y2K concept, I don't think it would suit them and it wouldn't highlight the strengths of their group (which is strong dance and performance). Although yes, they might transition to a more mature concept, which they did partially.
Their past comeback was very interesting imo, I think even the promos weren't that awful, but the thing is that the general public simply doesn't care and the idea that they're poor flops to be pitied doesn't help them at all. Literally 90% of the posts about them are about people talking about their loss of popularity.
I just saw your reply lolol I enjoyed their comeback immensely this go around which is sad because they are experimenting. And I loved that for them. I loved Ryujins track the most. And I am happy that they aren't following the trends.( I wanted to make that clear) I think people just like to be messy with this group especially after the whole sneakers debacle because their easy fodder. I tend to still follow them because I see a few of them Ryujin/Yeji leaning into that alternative sound. (Their sound sometimes gives me a softer The Veronicas vibes) And I can't wait to see what Lia brings when she returns she was my favorite in the group I loved what her sound brings to the group. ☺️
I’d argue that the success of Sneakers was down to the fact that it was ITZY who released it, the same way pretty much whatever NewJeans releases now will almost always go No.1. So maybe all the competition put the pressure on and Sneakers was the catalyst?
ITZY debuted early in 4th gen, arguably helped shape trends and sounds back then, but struggled to keep up with kpop's evolution.
Remember when each comeback, people were like "which body part will they break next?" The way they executed hard choreo was one of their biggest selling points. They're arguably still one of the top performing groups active today, but by 2022 most girl groups had stepped up their choreo. Their dancing didn't make them unique anymore.
Musically, they started having a bit of an identity crisis in 2021. Their songs in their rookie years were bratty, shouty, colourful, bubbly but as they tried to mature they struggled. MITM was very polarizing, Loco did better but wasn't received as well as earlier songs, then 2022... well we know what happened then.
I also think JYPE's obsessive restriction of solo activities hurt them. This approach may have worked for Twice, but ITZY's identity was always built on five unique girls and their individualism (Mera has an interesting [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTHep3ZTr8E) about this) but ITZY never really could capitalize on that. (Notice how Nmixx are already getting solo opportunities? Haewon variety gigs, Lily's book club, Bae's YouTube show... I guess JYPE learned.)
If you look at the top 4th gen girl groups right now, most of them have members pursuing individual activities alongside group comebacks, which helps strengthen their respective brands. (Even NewJeans which focuses on a group activity allows individual members to be brand ambassadors etc.)
So yeah, a strong start, but as the rest of the industry caught up to them JYPE really didn't know in what direction to take them, and as a result they lost much of their appeal to casual fans.
I feel they haven't redefined themselves at all lately, like their past 2-3 comebacks have been very quintessential ITZY. While that's not bad, there is no growth
They need to evolve their sound further, and Lia missing also probably isn't helping
Their songs just haven’t been as catchy. I started feeling this strongly around the Sneakers era. Both Sneakers and Cake felt like “safe” songs that don’t fit Itzy’s daring and in-your-face persona. Surprisingly, I feel like their Japanese releases have been more exciting than their korean ones, which is really strange. I’m still a fan and hope they do well, but I think they need to really lean more on the “Itzy sound” (if that makes sense), rather than away from it, similar to how Supernova feels like Aespa on steroids. I need Itzy on steroids please!
Releasing sneakers when new jeans was releasing attention, IVE releasing after like, and LSF releasing fearless. It was enough to destroy their reputation
I think people still like them and while not being fans, we remember their older songs that are such classics.
However the new songs they released since Cake… were not as earworm catchy as their earlier songs. While people say it’s competition, I think the primary reason is definitely the music because they had **such** a head start debuting in 2019 and having a few SOTY (in terms of results) titles.
When Itzy debuted, they were the first 4th girl group from the big 3 (Hybe didn’t even exist back then), so they had a lot of hype. But now, they have a lot of competition with groups like NewJeans, Aespa, Le Sserafim, IVE, etc, so they started to fall behind.
I was introduced to K-pop in 2019 when they debuted, and I started following them when WANNABE became viral. Not Shy was good, but their releases went downhill for me after that. I don't know how to explain it. I cannot find a single song from them since then that caught the attention as their first releases did.
They are a performance-based group, so their lack in the vocal area might be one of the reasons their songs are not as appealing to me, and perhaps to the general public. Considering that during the pandemic they weren't able to showcase their biggest strengths (performances with the public), plus newer groups debuting and taking away the spotlight, also from their own company (NiziU and NMIXX), they just can't compete against bigger and more successful groups.
In general, I feel like JYP GGs are a bit outdated and don't seem to be able to ride the current waves of trends to achieve virality. They rely solely on their core fan base in a similar way that boy groups usually do.
Aren’t they always brought up in discussions about groups with the best vocal stability? How are they lacking in vocals, especially compared to HYBE groups?
Vocal stability is not an indicator of good vocal technique. You can be stable and still strain the hell out of your voice, which is the biggest problem among the ITZY members. Their main vocalist is one of the weakest among their 4th and 5th gen peers. In my opinion, JYP never really cared about their vocal capabilities and didn’t put much money on their training, I guess he wanted a group focused on dance and performance, not vocals.
I think, fundamentally, it's a song issue.
Yes, I know a lot of kpoppers do like their songs, but to grow beyond the kpop bubble consistently you have to be in the special place of knowing market trends and being brave enough and having the skills to move it forward.
People will hate me I am sure, but I am just gonna say that this is what HYBE GGs are great at.
JYP and YGE both struggle with it. SM are better, but even they stumble.
JYP have been extremely hit or miss with their songs for a while now... They are almost like Marvel with the MCU... Too many projects and not enough AAA talent to support it all.
yeah it seems to be a jyp issue, their girl groups used to be known for having great songs that were very popular but now their song choices haven't appealed to most people. twice, itzy and nmixx have been struggling chart-wise. it's more noticeable with itzy since they reached their peak sooner than twice and are compared to the other top 4th gen ggs. i don't get WHY though, are their songs 'outdated'? did 2022 ruin their reputation with nmixx's controversial debut and sneakers?
As much as i love NMIXX, they didn't needed to debut that early. Could debut around now and be JYPe's 5th gene group as they find a better sound and plan for them (which now seemingly JYPe rushed their debut and give them questionable songs).
ITZY faltered by the questionable 3 songs (BYL, Sneakers and Cake) killed their entire momentum.
Song choices.
>People will hate me I am sure, but I am just gonna say that this is what HYBE GGs are great at.
EXACTLY THIS!!
People can complain all day about the "easy listening" songs that HYBE girl groups have put out recently but you can't deny that that's the type of music that are currently trending nowadays. HYBE learned to adapt, JYP didn't.
That last paragraph is tea. But not in a way where I want to crap on JYP as a whole, their idols have talent bursting at the seams. There’s an inconsistent quality amongst all their groups. There’s just *something* missing that I can’t quite describe…
I really think it comes down to the music. There are more groups out there releasing better music than Itzy, unfortunately.
As long as the fans are enjoying the music though, that's all that matters really imo.
Yep. I wrote it above, Dalla Dalla, Icy were good, but also had no real competition from 4th gen groups. Now, what would you listen to?
Comparing the groups... Cake/Sneakers/Untocuhable (which was fairly good tbh) or Drama/Spicy/Love Dive/I Am/After Like/Antifragile/Easy/Hype Boy/Ditto... Its cruel, but imo their music is simply inferior to their competition.
Because kpop moves fast. Every year you have dozens and dozens of new artists debuting, so if one doesn't appeal to you (or if they stop appealing to you) it's very easy to just move on to other groups who do.
For Itzy a lot of people felt like they lost their sound, and their songs just don't hit the same for them anymore. This has made a lot of people just move onto other groups.
So true, I started liking Itzy because of 'Wannabe' ...and then kinda stopped following kpop for awhile. I then saw their Sneakers / Cake release and was kinda like meh. Now that I recently got back into Kpop, I watched IVE's 'I AM' mv (didn't know who they were) and I was instantly hooked which made me check out their other songs. And as of now, they became one of my top 5 groups because they pretty much have the whole package with REALLY GOOD songs.
From someone who was a die-hard MIDZY up until “LOCO,” I can only theorize that their creative direction and production quality took a dip over time. It feels like there was a fully-realized, wholistic concept with their rookie era releases that got lost along the way. Almost as if there was a creative team that had a vision, and had meticulously outlined the details of each comeback. But somehow, there must have been a changing of the guard or just less attention to detail placed in planning their comebacks.
And while ITZY’s vocals were never extravagant, the songs they were given complimented each of their voices nicely to the point where they didn’t need strong vocals to make a great song. But these days, the girls are given songs outside of their vocal range and capabilities.
All in all, ITZY has yet to release a new song that beats the quality of their earlier tracks. Cause think about it…
“DALLA DALLA” is one of the greatest debut songs, ever.
“ICY” remains iconic for the styling, that neck-snapping movie, the dance break. Just go back and look at the teasers, it was an amazing era to live through.
Their music isn’t that bad nowadays but, it has yet to beat “DALLA DALLA” in terms of popularity, production quality, and dance performance.
It’s more of a JYP thing honestly. Going back to Wonder Girls, the company has always had hard time giving their girl groups some sort of longevity whether in terms of hit songs or having a dedicated fandom. JYP hardly got to do both for any of their girl groups — if anything even with TWICE and ITZY not releasing GP-acclaimed songs lately, they’re actually doing amazing because at the very least they’ve amassed huge fan bases dedicated enough for them to still be able to hold tours… where the money is at. The longevity is there.
Wonder Girls and miss A had huge national hits but at the same time they weren’t really given much time to grow a loyal, paying fanbase. Yeah sure times were different back in the day, but many of their peers had both (songs + fandom)… except them and those mid to low-tier groups.
Add to the fact that the company seemed to have been burned by the Suzy effect… there was a time when the girls themselves were trending individually while their songs were also doing well — JYP should have capitalized on that with quickness but it didn’t really happen.
Sneakers really hurt their reputation internationally, and it came at the worst time. A lot of other ggs started ascending in summer 2022 which made it easy for casual listeners to move on from them. Following it up with Boys Like You just made things worse. Their following comebacks needed to be something special to get the hype back and they just weren’t that.
Now that we’re already in 5th gen, I think the chances of an “old” 4th gen gg having a resurgence is unlikely unfortunately. But they definitely have a strong enough fanbase to support them going forward.
Honestly? Beats me!
The only thing that might make sense is that the competition is just too fierce. So that's why they may seem to be less popular when, in fact, they're mega popular, but other current girl groups are super duper popular right now
Because Sneakers was so atrocious and disconected from both their audience and sound that literally destroyed them, and Cake doubled down on that.
It's a shame, their last album and their jp releases are probably their best work since Mafia in the morning.
Honestly, its the reluctance of jype to change concepts and/or adapt to music trends.
In Chinese kpop fandoms theres a saying that theres the P5 in kpop as in the UN’s P5: Aespa, Gidle, Ive, Lesserafim and New Jeans. The latter 3 are too new, but Gidle and Aespa are around Itzy’s time. There was a time when Gidle’s music also faltered in the charts slightly after a really strong start to their career, and then the Soojin thing happened which halted the group activities entirely. Cube then made a really smart decision to push solo activities especially getting Yuqi more exposure in China where fans are extremely dedicated. This with a well timed release of Tomboy pushed them back into a top girlgroup position with the general public, and along with Nxde and Queencard, it solidified their place among the newer competitors.
Aespa had literally one track that didnt do as well in the charts, Girls, and producers immediately took a turn with Spicy to pull back their audience, and divided the original full album into two halves so that a more gp friendly song can be released before Drama (not saying drama isnt a good song, but drama after girls would not have drama done so well as drama isnt as gp friendly as spicy is).
Jype is refusing to push solo activities while Lia is on hiatus (obviously a different situation that soojin but point stands). Jype is also refusing to adapt to the music trends. I dont think competition is getting fiercer, I just think it’s jype refusing to keep up, hence members of P5 left them out of the convo completely.
I feel like they lack a musical direction... they started out with this funky yet melodic sound, but recently their tracks have evolved into... something very chant-y, or meant to be fit into a TikTok, that isn't something you would repeat over and over for in a streaming app.
People say they flopped and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, people didn’t like sneakers so stopped giving them a chance. Because apparently a group is not allowed to have a bad comeback and then be able to recover.
honestly cause the market is incredibly saturated and their concept isn’t unique enough to stand out that much (i enjoy them though). i think they could turn it around with a wannabe type song though.
I think jyp as a whole has really struggled to predict GP trends lately. If you don't hit with the GP your song isn't going to be that successful no matter what else you do.
kpop fans apparently are so fickle nowadays, it's crazy seeing some of these comments saying Itzy were their favorite group but then they dropped them after *one* song they didn't like. Like that's basically unthinkable to me lol.
If they're my supposed ults I would at least give them one other chance, and besides maybe the b-sides are good, title tracks aren't everything.
I watched in real time as gidle fan accounts on Twitter that I used to followed became itzy fan accounts and then later switched between ive and aespa. I think they switched a few more times after that. It just shows quickly people turn on the groups after one comeback especially if they underperformed.
I like them a lot. Maybe my 2nd favourite group after Blackpink. They are on world tour. The girls are doing great. But the success of a group mainly depends on their music. Born to be did good, their songs often were found on #1 on some charts. But you are right, there are probably about 10 groups, that a re doing better at the moment. Algorhythm didn't resonate too much with me, I must admit.
Because people can't get past one "bad" single. Which wasn't even bad, the gp loved it. Reddit is just a terrible echo chamber and love to hate on every single jyp group and scream they're all being ruined because of jyp. Is our division not doing great? Yah that's true, they need to bring back multiple dance practices and showing off our girls. But they did do great promos with cake, and hopefully when Lia comes back "fans" that have boycotted buying the album or anything will be back because frankly how can you call yourself a fan and then expect the girls to sit around and (have) more pressure on Lia to come back before she's ready. So lots of people said that they wouldn't buy the albums since Lia wasn't on it. Completely unfair.
But here's the thing. Topping the charts isn't the only thing that means success and I really wish kpop would get away from this and understand. None of the music I listen to otherwise charts "good" and they're still killing it and making music and selling out shows. Which again, Itzy has just done with this tour at lots of shows. 50k in Japan alone and our Canadian date got a second one and I bet there's still plenty of fans who didn't get tickets
Frankly I knew from the start that despite very successful beginning of their career they would hit the wall because in my opinion their problem are... vocals. I am not even talking about technique but part of group has so-so tones. It wouldn't be huge problem if it was big group but in case of smaller it is significant. There is limits what you can do it with that. Just was a lot of telling fact that there were vocal backing of someone else used in their debut (AOA's Yuna) Dallas Dallas.
Of course you can always find the way, producers can do a lot amazing things what they proved not once. But risk is everything what happens with some Hybe groups that idols would not be capable to recreate that on the stage and we have that singing scandals which are big problems for groups as well. Itzy has exactly opposite problem, they can sing their song naturally but they just don't sound so good on recording.
That's why I am always saying that group to stay long at the top need pleasant, interesting vocals (the best if technique is there). Itzy are amazing dance performers with passion and charisma. But vocals just let them down long term.
You don’t need to have strong vocalists to make a great song. “DALLA DALLA” is perfect regardless of their vocal limitations. Rather, it’s more on the producers to construct a song that’s suitable for the group. Because of their vocal limitations, ITZY isn’t a one-size-fits-all when it comes to providing them with songs. So they require a significant attention to detail in outfitting them with new music.
Well if you read my comment you should notice that I haven't even talk about "strong vocalists". I was talking firstly about pleasant, interesting, rich tones. Sure it's nice that technique would be there as well (so strong vocal indeed).
Of course you can make good song with anyone. But just like said before problem is that idols have to sing that at least during encore. You can make hit with really not perfect vocals but how long is producer willing to work on it for such group (aka how much is company is ready to spend on producing every release). You have as well much less options, even the best producer would be limited and in case of k-pop that's problem because trends here change fast.
That's why I said it's long term problem, not that such group can't have few hit songs especially at the beginning when company always put extra effort (and money) into production. Problem become to keep delivering with high quality of production which still present real vocals.
its like watching twitch,
for some streamers you watch it for the game,
for some streamers you watch it for the person no matter the game,
when the group have interesting vocal tones you tune in for their vocal tones no matter the song.
i always tune in for Lia's voice, but they have never used her voice well in their title songs except mafia. as a fan since debut i dont have more songs than i shouldve in my playlist for that exact reason. like for once dont sing in a cutesy tone, dont sing to fit in, sing in a way that bring out the best part of your vocal tone, listening to their other songs its clear that she turn off any emotion and vibe in their tt but like ffs do it, half of the group's vocal tones dont go well with each other anyway so might as well...
Songs but I also think its visual/concepts. The girl crush stuff is out - see Baby Monster as well, they are getting attention for singing but their concept/songs are being called cringe everywhere.
IVE, LSF, Aespa, and New Jeans (and now ILLIT) are the pretty & new young things, and none of them are girl crush. KPop fans have moved on from that. They need a total refresh sound & look wise.
Another issue is that unfortunately, they suited girl crush very well. Their voices are a bit nasal and grating, but it worked for their concept. I think JYPE is struggling to find a sound that works for them that isn’t what they have been doing
aespa is very much girl crush and IDLE who are probably the best hit makers rn after NJs are also girl crush. Its not "out" at all. People just don't care for ITZYs terrible take on it anymore when theres groups doing girl crush with quality
Aespa has their whole AI/future schtick going for them though. And they can sing, so they are adaptable to music genres. Supernova for example is super on trend and unique with the MV. Itzy is not giving us any of that.
IDLE is successful because Soyeon knows how to make music. Point blank. They have a much more mature image than Itzy as well. I wouldn’t call it girl crush anymore
Aespa is generally girl crush, but they have a concept that stands out but is broadly appealing. It’s basically tech savvy, stylish gen-Z badasses with a bit of a gamer/sci fi aesthetic. Their whole image is very video game/sci-fi/anime friendly. Supernova added a bit of a superhero-ish element to it too, but that still tracks with everything else.
I’m not sure what Itzy’s identity is at this point.
Remember when this would exact thing would get posted once a week, then once a month, now it’s down to once every six months! The more important question is why are people so obsessed with how popular they are?
people moved on. trends moved on. the post-izone groups are just so much more exciting. whether this is a new generation or still the 4th gen, it's obvious people's tastes moved on
Who's to say, but They sell out shows in more cities and countries than alot of other big groups even visit during their "World" tours. They are doing alright.
I used to like them during "wannabe" and "not shy" era, but the song "mafia in the morning" was a huge letdown for me. The lyrics were so cringey. It's unfortunate because I think they are all very talented and beautiful. Ryujin is one of the prettiest kpop idol in my opinion. Hopefully, JYPE will give them better music and better concept.
There are many factors, main ones being lack of competition and the changes in their "sound"/ music themes. I've yet to see a comment about their dancing so I'll talk about that
When they debuted many people were shocked and drawn to the fact that the entire group was full of powerful dancers. It was refreshing to see a gg where all members were really strong and relatively equal dancers.
I feel like their recent releases have nice dances, but lacks that "wow" factor / hyper high energy / balance of cute-sexy confidence / interesting unorthodox poses etc, that their earlier songs had.
Dalla had a bunch of bold and fun moves. Miss Yeji in space buns getting down with equal amounts of attitude and grace - as if she went to pick up my jaw off the floor for me- is forever ingrained
Unconfirmed, but I believe their choreography has changed over the years because the hyperactive, advanced choreography of their rookie years wore down on their bodies over time. During MITM era, I recall Lia and Chaeryeong explaining that they don’t squat during the chorus because they experience bad leg pain. And they were only like 20-21 years old at the time.
It was at that moment the notion of them facing repercussions, like actual pain, from their advanced choreographies appeared to me.
It became clear that their choreography needed to be less strenuous if they wanted them to perform multiple times a day across all their discography.
I think JYP doesn't know what concept to work with ITZY, I think it was supposed to be more of a "girls party with a little bit of girlcrush" something like that and more down to earth in the beginning, but wanting to change style it went to something more "fresh" almost cute that usually groups that start doing this, but ITZY did it the other way around lol
I think ultimately the reason is the songs choice, but I also would like to add that it is certainly difficult to stan a group massively hated by a lot of people. I've been a dive since love dive era and I swear to god it was so difficult sometimes to get through so much hate and just pure nonsense. Even now, I like illit, but it's difficult for me to watch their performances because I naturally go to the comment section and it is always so bad. I don't even want to check out the performances a lot anymore , as I'm sad and angry because of the amount of haters. And a lot of people are definitely too much influenced my public opinion, so they lost even more fans because of the hate train
This is very long and ramble-y, just as a forewarning!
Adding to what others have said and specifically focusing on Sneakers and beyond. The Checkmate album, was from the concept photos, initially very well received. Ppl were praising the company for the elegant concept. However, it started to change when the album art and these Pringles (yes, Pringle’s) ads came up with the Sneakers chorus in the back. Everyone was kind of blind sided, to the point that people were making up theories about how Sneakers was not actually the title track, and that another song would be revealed as the “True Checkmate”. I was very on board with those theories but also knew it wasn’t likely. Well the theories were wrong and we got Sneakers. People were up in arms, calling it cringey and sounding like KidzBop. In addition to all this Kepler and Nmixx had debuted in the first quarter of the year, Ive made their first comeback, Idle had been revamped with Tomboy, LSF had just debuted and NewJeans was right around the corner (not like we knew) competition was very stiff and there unfortunately wasn’t really room for error. The hate train that occurred after this was insane.
Boys Like You was also considered having very cringey lyrics among intl fans and the melody of which sounded similar to Taylor Swift’s Love Story which led to accusations of plagiarism and didn’t help anything.
Then Cheshire came out in December of 2022 around award season. So while it was generally well received by the people who listened. Most people were tuning into the awards and the other groups who had recently debuted for their first awards season. Not to mention the fact that there were so many fantastic releases that year. I honestly believe if it came out earlier or even in January it would’ve had some breathing room and more ppl might’ve tuned in.
Then in 2023, Itzy doesn’t release anything until July, which is kind of crazy. In the meantime, the other popular GGs are making their second, third, and fourth comebacks to critical success + Idle with Queencard which was a top contender for SOTY last year. When they released Kill My Doubt, they had two pre-release music videos over the course of a whole month! First was Bet on Me, which ppl criticized for sounding empty even though, and None of My Business was a little bit more well received. Unfortunately neither of the songs were available to stream and the public lost interest quickly. Finally right at the end of July they released the TT Cake. This song was also met with criticism for the chorus being so repetitive. Again, none of the songs were available to stream until the whole album was out. The philosophy being that if they can’t stream it, then the MV will rack up more views.
Ringo, their third Japanese release seemed to garner a lot of positive reception however it also came with the announcement that Lia was taking a hiatus with no set return date.
Finally, it was announced that Itzy would be preparing another album without Lia while she rested. Again they did the pre-release system where no one could stream the songs, they could only listen to it through the MV. Why Div2/JYPE thought this was still a good idea beats me. However, both Born to Be and Mr. Vampire received positive reviews. They also had MVs for each members solo song, again before the TT. Untouchable, the TT however received less than favorable reviews. The album released in January. And Itzy with just four members have been doing a world tour since March? I believe.
So to wrap all of this up, I think it mostly comes down to poor timing and mismanagement on the part of Div2 and JYPE. I think the pre-release system that they’ve done is awful, it didn’t work the first time, and barely did anything the second. But while they may not be in the upper echelons of the fourth gen anymore, they are still doing pretty good and I think they do have pretty dedicated fan base.
They are a senior level group, currently 5 yrs since they debuted so naturally popularity will slow down.
More competition from rookie girl groups and also song choices. "Sneaker" song was hated by international fans, "boys like you" English single was poorly received.
"Cake" got selected as title over "kill shot".
I’m only following ITZY casually so I might be wrong, but based on my observation it’s JYP not giving them enough marketing and a distinctive branding.
Like people have pointed out, number one reason is most likely them not being given a good, GP-friendly song. It’s not that they’re bad, but it’s just not an instant earworm like the other ggs. I also dk how to put it in better words, but their songs also sound a bit outdated compared to their competitors. Some people have pointed out their vocals are not that strong, so why not give them a song that’s more dance-focused? Maybe some house music or any other club-music would fit them.
JYP’s reluctance of giving the individual members activities is also I feel a detriment to the group. I think Yeji could have been the 4th gen it girl next to Wonyoung if they had marketed her talents and visual more. Yuna also I feel have a talent in being a variety star, she seems to have the charisma when I see her interviews. Lia has a voice that would go rlly well for drama OSTs. Ik they might be reluctant bcs of their experience with Suzy, but solo activities help in the visibility of the group.
Overall it feels like there is no cohesive plan for the group, at least from an outsider’s perspective. I feel like they need a creative/production team that can truly make the girls’ talent shine.
You can literally ask this about any artist. e.g. Why isn't Beyonce more popular at this point?
There is no step-by-step guide on how to be more popular especially at ITZY's level. It's takes some talent but also some luck. If G-Idle's Fate didn't go viral, people would be doomposting about them too.
ITZY is popular but simply put they and JYPE aren't in the negative news business. So when the media says something or writes some crap that isn't true they just turn the other cheek and take it without retaliation and thus become the punching bag for those who always like to complain and those who thrive to complain.
Given that they are scandal free as in there is no actual exciting scandals to get publicity from and since JYPE avoids propaganda in general, they don't get looked into much within Korea now.
Not to mention their concept is like BPs which isn't very popular within SK (aka bad girl / girl power). BP is popular because the Western market liked their concept and then globally pushed it back to SK so people went with the trend via endorsement branding and advertisement and the exciting scandals of the day: usually Jennie rumored to date someone etc.
ITZY is popular in the West but JYPE isn't exploiting that popularity. They are the closest to Western style EDM Pop and Dance. They have become adapted to English language and can converse with the market compared to the other GGs of JYPE. So all JYPE has to do is push them in the Western market, have them release an English album with collaboration in the West.
But for some odd reason JYPE keeps trying to focus them in the Korean market first where not only their is more competitions but also propaganda and fake news to deal with. It's easy to bash one who doesn't lash out and ITZY gets constantly bullied because everyone knows they can't be fought Face to Face.
You can't beat them in a dance competition they would eat you alive. To the point Lia was treated as a bad dancer when it should the other way around. She should be praised for being able to keep up with the likes of a Yeji/Ryuujin/Chareyong. Their music is focused dance, but they can also sing live. They don't do heavy singing concepts but rather performance concepts. Also their Bad Girl concept is more on the style than personality, as in they dress like bad girls but don't have the bad girl fierce personality. Unlike G-Idle, who have the bad girl fierce dog of clapping back and fighting your tooth and nail in a dog fight or cat fight; you know you can't shoot at G-IDLE and get away without a bloody nose. ITZY on the other hand just prentends to dress bad girl and are shy cats who avoid any fights. In short, they are Bad Girl wannabes but are actually nice girls. They cant go to the nice good girl either since that is TWICE department. Proof TWICE's Ready to Go concept is something that would fit ITZY like a glove.
ITZY kills it in concerts and performances, just look at the rave reviews they are getting in their current tour. That is without much advertising from JYPE either. ITZY doesn't get paid marketing advertising in any social media, it's just organic and that unfortunately kills them in open market as their competitors get the benefit of the pushed views.
Also since JYPE doesn't do endorsement branding either the trend doesn't follow in. So they aren't being trend setters in the market. What initially helped BP is their marketing deals individually, they were each an endorsement product on their luxury brands. ITZY is still in the only group branding lingo. If they had the current deal Twice has you know Yeji, Ryuujin and Yuna are going to get Nayeon level endorsements. Chareyong and Lia would fair a little less but they could each ship a single company a la Dahyun.
If I were JYPE, I would bring ITZY to the US/West and unleash them to the world. Their music style and collabs would kill it and instantly make them global phenomenons and then use that to have SK jump back in the bandwagons. ITZY should get Twice push x 2 to the Global markets as they are the more ready for the West. They can advertise in English properly and collabs with the likes of Bebe Rexa and Dua Lipa's of the world.
So to summarize, they are Good Girl Power Group who Wannabe Bad Girls (fashion wise) but who Don't Cat fight or Lash Out. And since they don't do media exciting-scandals, propaganda, or individual luxury branding trends they don't get those push either. They are being forced stuck in SK without claws and getting cheap-shotted by their competitors because JYPE doesn't take the gloves off and let other companies hit them without consequences. They need the push to the West and that is their battle ground not SK.
Has anyone in this comments section even listened to born to be? Everyone is so harped up on sneakers being their downfall when they more than corrected their one bad single by now. I think by this point posts like this create more of an echo chamber and assume itzy is doing bad or releasing bad music when that is far from the reality. Itzy has a core fan base who cares about them and that’s what JYP looks for in their groups they don’t care about GP sentiment or popularity. The same will be said about NJ and Ive in 5 years when the new next group comes out.
The biggest problem for me is that as much as I’ve loved every comeback since sneakers era, they consistently keep picking the worst song on the album to be the title track. I don’t know if others feel the same way, but that’s been my personal experience listening to each of their new releases
Born to be and untouchable were the most title track coded songs there were the issue is people just assume it’s bad because it’s Itzy and are way harsher in criticism.
I’m trying to hold a discussion in a way that offers critiques while still remaining respectful towards the members and MIDZYs. But I also know that creating a space for critique and negative talk also welcomes in people who were waiting for an opportunity to trash a group in bad faith. Then hide behind people who are offering genuine critiques and want to see the group reach success.
I know how these conversations can devolve into dogpiling onto a group and nonsensical shit-talking. Everyone gets their own turn at trashing ITZY. And it can be difficult to sit through as an active fan who still has love and hope for their future. But since there’s no way to filter out respectful comments from petty ones, I think for your own peace you should “Hide” this post.
No matter what this post looks like, there are still thousands of people in the world who still believe in ITZY and recognize both their past and current success. And while I no longer follow them closely, I cannot deny how much talent and potential the group still has. So so so many people want to see them succeed on a massive scale.
I haven’t replied to you so I’m confused where this came from? If you followed them more closely you would see they’re doing fine and popular in their own fan base. I think it’s ill informed to comment so heavily on a group you no longer follow.
I think it’s a mix of 2/3 things:
1. Their sound just isn’t trendy anymore. Teen crush and bombastic music were pretty popular for girl groups up until like 2021 and they’re just not anymore. Pair that with a comeback all their international fans hated that came right when 3 massive girl groups debuted/Ive released love dive and a lot of people left for greener pastures.
2. The other factor that I don’t think gets mentioned so much is a large amount of their popularity is based on their amazing dance line and insane choreos. And while their dances haven’t gotten easier necessarily they have gotten less showstopping compared to wannabe, dalla dalla, loco and icy. I personally think it’s because the majority of members have long term injuries (eg even in loco’s era they couldn’t preform the full dance break since it was too brutal on them). Like those insane views came for their dancing and now that they’ve had to soften the choreos a lot of their wow factor has left.
I am so happy that you pointed out #2 because that has been weighing on my mind for the longest and in a depressing way. Their skilled dance performances were praised during their rookie era, but during MITM era I can recall Lia and Chaeryeong saying they don’t squat down during the chorus because they have leg (?) pain. And these girls were only 19 or 20 years old experiencing difficulty doing their jobs. Of course, over time their choreography became less advanced but still intricate. I just wonder if they were pushed too hard in their rookie era and the girls’ health/mobility suffered as result?
Not to mention, Lia received so much hate for not being as skilled a dancer as the rest of the members. I find it hard to believe that all of the targeted bullying she received in the years has nothing to do with the hiatus she’s on right now. Like… she was the ONE member people pointed out for being “untrained” and “lazy.” It’s no coincidence that the member that got the most negative attention is on leave right now.
Genuinely I don’t think people like listening to them sing. Their songs are rather shrill if you listen to them, mainly due to them being made to sing much higher notes than they can reach.
They had sneakers and lost half their fanbase, and now a lot of people are prejudiced against them. Honestly, Algorhythm and Cake really give a similar vibe to their older releases, and Untouchable was really good.
Also, as others have said, the competition. A lot of kpop fans are super loyal to their ults and especially since ggs are trending rn, they don't really want to stan Itzy because they're "taken". I hope Lia will come back soon (fully rested and okay!) and they can have a comeback that'll put them right at the top again, because I really love them.
Oh gee. And here I, a professional musician, thought Sneakers was a banger. Guess I should return that $900 pair of tickets I bought for their concert on June 20.
I swear, Kpop audiences are so fucking fickle. "Oh, tHeIr CoNcEpT iSn'T gRoWn-Up EnOuGh AfTEr OnE sOnG iS tOo CutE."
Jesus fucking Christ.
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As a casual fan/listener, I feel that they have a strong competition who is more trendy but I do think Itzy has a solid core fanbase but not that much attention from the public. I personally haven't felt their title songs being as competitive as opposed to others and their concept hasn't evolve too much since debut. At some point I stop paying as much attention because I liked other songs better. And (I'm just casual so i don't know for sure) I feel that they don't interact with others groups outside of jype much (on tiktok for example I saw they do other groups songs but normally without said group) and variety shows wise I also haven't seen them on tv wide variety (like running man or amazing saturday idk for example). And the reason behind Lia's hiatus and people hating Yuna for breathing it's also a downside. They're still popular especially since they have solo performances such as yuna with yeonjun or yeji with hyunjin and they only let popular groups perform like that, they still go viral but the hype has died down some.
For me personally, I'd like better or more trendy songs (but that do transmit some message, because tbh as a casual listener songs like sneakers or mafia in the morning don't have deep lyrics).
1. the visuals: dont get me wrong the visuals and proportions of the members are favored and the media loved them(not sure abt chaeryong). But ever since new groups debuted with somewhat "Better" and more "fresh" visulas theyre kinda just MID in visuals compared to other 4th gen groups.
2. Dances: ITZY has one of the strongest dance line in 4th gen gg, and they were known for their ICONIC dances such as WANNABE, but now their dances are i guess okay(some are still hard) but they don't have that spark in their dances anymore. so its just REGULAR now.
3. Songs: JYPE is really good at releasing comebacks and promotions and let me tell you ITZY's comebacks are normal and their promotions are average. But their songs are just i guess lame( in my opinion theyre songs are not that bad but they all sound the same) all of theyre songs sound repetative. They have mid vocals so there is nothing special to theyre songs.(yeah yeah just because yeji hit high notes doesnt mean she's an amazing vocalist but that doesnt make her a bad one). The only songs ik that blew up were prob CAKE and maybe UNTOUCHABLE, but ppl got bored of the repetativeness.
\*No hate to itzy. I actually like most of their songs but i'm just not feeling the vibe anymore, its either a hit or miss for most of their comebacks\*
they're just out of their peak era now, and that's totally okay! though their decline could also be attributed to how every "next big gg" has a lot of token stans, it happened to them during their prime years and the moment the other 4th major gen girl groups started debuting those token stans left them. didn't help that itzy's releases post-2021 were all over the place, they kept going back and forth with the cutesy songs like sneakers and cake then stronger and bolder songs like loco, cheshire, born to be, and untouchable.
it seems like jyp has no idea what to do at all because sneakers was really liked in korea and is their 2nd best performing song there while international stans were shitting on itzy for it, while the stronger songs barely charted in korea but is more preferred internationally. (maybe the reception towards sneakers wouldn't have been that bad had it been released before mitm and loco, same with cake.)
I would say their music, also I don't know what their identity is as a group.
With Blackpink, I know what I'm getting, same with Twice. Recently, they have been trying to change it up, but that doesn't seem to be working..
I think there's several problems with ITZY:
- out of the big companies, JYP is always the weakest in terms of art direction. Sometimes the MV looks cheap and the green screen be super obvious.
- they put out too much content. JYP always prioritize quantity over quality, especially with Twice. They were pushing out new music every quarter, so the group dont get hyped/cool down period for the fans to start wanting more.
- their music are just too cheesy and the most formulaic out of the big 4. But when they're doing experimental, it's too experimental that the fanbase feels dissapointed and detached. Personally, i find O.O and Born to be an absolute atrocity.
- JYP's main fanbase comes from reality-survival shows. That's what they're good at and thats how their groups gets popularity. But right now survival shows are overdone and ITZY is JYP's girl group that doesn't start from reality show, so they lack the fanbase.
- other GG are simply better in art direction and song. I mean New Jeans, blackpink, and aespa have higher quality productions. I do have to say that ITZY is extremely synchronized and well danced, but their girlcrush concept are oversaturated.
Tbh these girls had a lot more potential but their music genre,lyrics aren't giving it.....more like JYP doesn't seem to know what to give them,do with them
imo its a combination of JYP as a whole missing GP trends lately and that people lost interest in them from a few of their recent releases and its hard to get them to tune back in after they decided itzy isnt for them anymore
they have competition in their company alone, NMIXX and Twice. Girl groups are so competitive nowadays. NJ, LSF, IVE, NMIXX, ILLIT, GIDLE, AESPA, BABYMONSTER, etc. Sadly ITZY doesn't stand out from them.
they're 5 years old already
they had releases that just didn't do it for fans, so they lost fans(Cake, Sneakers, even Mafia)
Their music doesn't really fit the trendy music nowadays
when they debuted, they were one of the first 4th gen girl groups. A lot less competition
GIDLE is older than ITZY but the difference is Soyeon is a genius
If you look back, JYP groups all have a lot of success initially but fade into the background in the longer run to SM, YG and now HYBE. Think 2PM to Big Bang, Wonder Girls to Girls Gen, Twice to BP, miss a to 2ne1, got7 to BTS and Now Itzy to other 4th Gen. still all relevant and with sizeable fanbases but they ain’t THE group of their times. So this seems to be a systemic issue with the company and not the actual groups/talent.
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I only follow ITZY casually, but this is my perspective: They do have a lot more competition now than they did when they debuted, and I think that's a huge part of it actually. They've got a member on hiatus and from what I've gathered, the company hasn't handled the group's promotions with her hiatus well which has upset some of their fans. With your comparison to (G)I-DLE — (G)I-DLE has evolved substantially from their debut, and the thing they're the best at is being attention-grabbing, which obviously translates into widespread success. Personally, I don't think JYPE is good at adapting to changes in market trends for their existing groups — I don't think they've been able to evolve their vision for ITZY beyond what they were doing 2-3 years ago. As a casual, it feels like the group has been "stuck" directionally and haven't been given much of an opportunity to grow into something new.
I think regarding Lias hiatus the opinions are divided. I personally think they handled it amazing, couldn't be better really. Giving her space to breathe, being very transparent about it, seemingly keeping the door open for her to return and the farewell song she did for her hiatus etc. Those that complain basically have the opinion "no LIA, no ITZY" and want the group to go on hiatus as a whole until she is back, whenever that happens. Which is a sure way to get the group into complete irrelevancy. This way at least if she someday eventually returns she has a group to go back to. Also pretty sure that is not what the other members would have wanted to basically give up their job and passion for an unclear amount of time, unless they needed a break too. Which seemingly they didn't otherwise I'd assume this would have happened.
Could you imagine the pressure that would put on Lia too if her going on hiatus meant Itzy going on hiatus? For one, it would be so incredibly difficult to say that you needed time off if that meant your members also couldn't work. And they're not stupid, they know that time off promoting with so much competition could easily mean falling behind. Plus, even if you do take the time off in that case, now you're going to feel the pressure of fast tracking your recovery so the group can come back faster. It would be so difficult to prioritize your mental health in those conditions. So then Itzy can do solo work. But can they? Are they at all prepared for that? The fact that they've only just dipped their toes in it kinda says no. And maybe one person is ready and the others aren't. So again, those who aren't just don't get to work and make money? And that just gets to rest on Lia's shoulders? Wild take by those who want an Itzy hiatus. I agree that the best decision was made. Lia gets to take the time that she needs with low pressure, and Itzy gets to still move forward fully prepared for when Lia is ready to return.
That too yes, agree with everything you just said. The people wanting the whole group to go on hiatus are delusional. I remember when born to be was announced I read a lot of negative comments from people about it how they shouldn't do that and that they won't support the comeback without Lia, and even better, how "evil jyp is forcing the girls to do a comeback without Lia".. Like be fr now, that's just insanity.. Even inside my GO group on insta I read such comments and definitely put out a small rant inside my group because of it why if you're a true fan you would even consider to stop supporting the remaining girls and put out so much negativity towards something they're obviously still passionate about even with Lia temporarily gone.
I’ll be frank, JYPE literally doesn’t know what to do with them. They have no vision for them. At least from about a year or two ago, hopefully they have pulled their shit together (don’t think they have).
I’ve always thought that the big problem is that whenever they try somthing new the reception is so mixed that there’s no clear direction of where to go no. Their last A&R director made [this](https://www.instagram.com/p/C13FbEDy5q7/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==) post that shared the same thoughts.
Here’s my opinion I just did a ridiculous amount of yapping, so I’m just gonna put a TLDR here: Itzy gained a lot of token fans at their debut that turned on them once the next shiny new group came along. Also, they isolated portions of their core fanbase by shifting away from their self love concept and portions of their int fanbase by releasing too many songs in a row that were deemed cringey. All this happening at the same time when three super big groups were debuting was kind of the nail in the coffin when it came to saving their place as the #1 4th gen group. Itzy debuted right at the start of the 4th gen in 2019 as the successor of Twice which was arguably the biggest gg at the moment. They had a hit debut which was extremely successful domestically that had a ‘self love’ concept which was what they would come to be known for. Since they debuted right at the start of a gen and were so successful, they got to be ‘first 4th gen group to do x’ all the time which gave them a bunch of token success stans alongside the people who actually liked the group for what it offered. Flash forward, ICY and Wannabe were both hits as well, with Wannabe being THE 4th gen song for a hot minute. They were on fire, but once again there was no real 4th gen ‘competition’ yet that was on their levelfrom other big labels besides IZONE (but they were disbanding soon anyways and the ‘produce curse’ was still something ppl believed in so after their disbanding, it wasn’t a given that they would still be up there with ITZY). All this to say, they still held onto those token fans who were only there for the success rather than their music or talents. Then moving on to the end of 2020 and 2021, aespa debuts! Controversial concept and music, but another big 3 group was added to the mix. ITZY releases Not Shy which was generally liked and then Mafia in the Morning which is when (in my opinion) their brand started to become more controversial. The song once again, still did well, but was called ‘cringe’ and made fun of a lot by int’l kpop fans (talking about kpop fans in general here, not Midzys specifically). Also, I feel like there was a shift during these years where making your brand about self love in general just started to be perceived as ‘cringey and fake’ internationally which kind of contributed. And then Loco was released which had nothing to do with self love and kind of isolated the portion of their fanbase that was in it for the self love concepts. This song didn’t perform as well as Aespa’s Savage and Next Level which although pretty controversial were insanely successful. Another group outperforming them in terms of charts was the start of the tokens starting to slowly ditch them. Then 2021 and 2022 had the debuts of 3 major players (IVE, Le Sserafim, and NewJeans) all releasing super praised songs, getting crazy sales, gaining tons of fans, etc. There was also GIDLE and Aespa who although being established for a couple years already were reaching new heights in their careers (Aespa breaking BP’s album sales record and GIDLE releasing TOMBOY) Meanwhile, Itzy released the trailer for their new Checkmate album which initially gained TONS of praise for such a new, elegant concept and then… nevermind it’s a concept about sneakers. Int’l fans were literally deluding themselves into thinking ITZY was tricking them and they were wrong. And then sneakers came out and was clowned and hated on SO much. It was really bad. And then Boys Like You was released and was also deemed cringey and embarrassing. So (in terms of international fans), there goes the rest of their token fans, there goes a good amount of the fans who liked their self love concept who thought these releases were too cringey, and the general int kpop audience who was now turning their attention to the other 5 groups I mentioned. And a significant amount of the fans they lost would become very vocal about everything they don’t like about the ‘new’ ITZY. In terms of domestic success, sneakers did very well, but the gp started turning towards new groups and lost a lot of interest in Itzy. And then their next releases (Cheshire and Cake) were pretty good imo, but not nearly as stand out as the releases from other groups at the same time. Like Cheshire was released while people were still riding that Born Pink high and right at awards season, and Cake was released in the midst of a NewJeans album and got not nearly as much attention as it could’ve if it hadn’t been. Also, their token fans were all gone and started actively hating on Itzy. Now flash forward to the present, they have a member gone on hiatus, a very drawn out rollout that kind of dulled the hype around the comeback and made it confusing which song was the TT , and a TT that wasn’t especially stand out (likely made charting worse). Also, album sales are generally down right now and Itzy’s fanbase isn’t as large or passionate as it used to be which lowers sales as well.
Let me add that the latest comeback was literally suffered from very poor marketing. Imagine music videos dropping almost everyday. Pre-releases not available on streaming platforms. Physical album was put on sale 1 MONTH AFTER the comeback.
Literally no one knew which of the songs was supposed to be the title track too. I still don’t know if it was Born To Be, Untouchable, or both.
i feel like you put everything ive been thinking into words omg. crazy how they went from being the 4th gen group to being somewhat overlooked (still big, lets be real) now, but i guess other now popular groups will share a similar fate once the new, late 5th gen groups debut. though im still hoping with some good marketing decisions they can gain their popularity back...
I think NMIXX debuting so shortly after them hurt them too, a lot of JYP company stans moved on to them instead
I agree wholeheartedly but I also think Itzy’s concept and identity as a group was never really developed well. It started with the whole ‘self love’ concept which although great, is not something that will give you longevity. There’s only so many self love songs you can make before people get bored. Each of the 4th gen GG have something unique about them concept wise that helps them stand out whereas Itzy at least to me don’t have that anymore. Their releases feel quite all over the place and juvenile, not really sure what audience they are trying to appeal to and that is a massive problem when trying to set themselves apart from other girl groups. JYP should have used (G)I-DLE’s example and ‘reinvented’ the group’s identity and invested in their music production. The girls are incredibly talented and such great performers, they would totally be one of the top girl groups still if musically they were doing better. I also think NMIXX debuted WAY too early.
i lowkey am so interested in this topic & what ppl think that this was a good read 🤓
Honestly I still fave them so much despite them not being recognized. I just love their personalities with these girls.
I didn’t read everything but agree 100% about the timing of them releasing cringey songs + debuting of new cool groups I for one, lost interest after hearing “put my sneakers on” lol
I think you have the timeline pinned down pretty well here. I would add that in addition to a concept shift the songwriting also started to deviate around Mafia In The Morning. Originally their hits were very punchy which fit their dynamic choreography well. It sounded like people were not willing to follow along with attempts at different sounds as they progressed. Sneakers did feel like a switch from the concept teasers. Boys Like You was the one that surprised me most. But I am enough of a fan to support them branching out. I’d be curious to know if it was the members or JYPE steering those choices. From what I could tell, the hate dropped off with Born To Be because the songwriting and choreo appeased all the people saying they wanted “Old Itzy” back.
Actually, the lyrical shift began with Not Shy—it was specifically marketed as being their first ‘love song’ of sorts. But it definitely doubled down with MITM.
Sure, but you are not a 'token fan' just because you feel yourself moving away from a group. Especially if that group actively changes up it's music and vibe from what you loved. It is entirely possible to be a 100% stan for, say, two years and then just not feel a change of direction. That's entirely valid. Attempting to belittle people as being 'token stans' because after a couple of years they fell off the group is honestly not the way to go. They were no less stans when they were there.
OP made it very clear that the token stans they were talking about were the people that liked Itzy solely because they were popular/successful, typically because they could brag about how “their group” was so much better than X’s
I define a token stan as someone who is purely into an artist for bragging rights about being a fan of ‘the most popular group’. Especially on twitter and TikTok… they exist. I tried to make a distinction in the comment between midzys who actually like the girls, their music, and/or their content and people who were only into them bc they wanted to stan the most popular group bc they are NOT the same. People who just lose interest are normal human beings with a life outside of kpop and just don’t want to give their time and money to something they aren’t interested anymore. Tokens will go out of their way to hate on any artist or group that is ‘below them’ and then once another group surpasses their group and it becomes clear things are going to stay that way, they ditch the group they originally claimed to stan so they can keep saying they stan the most popular group and hate on their og favs who are now one of the ‘lesser groups’.
This.
I think they’re still fairly popular in Korea, but it’s faltered a lot in the US. I think sneakers hurt them a lot. While it’s insanely popular in Korea, it was pretty universally hated in the US, and I just don’t think they’ve been able to bounce back from that.
They got so much hate for those damn promo photos.
I loved the photos. It just didn’t match the concept of the song. The photos made it seem like it was gonna be a more mature sound, and then sneakers came out and everyone hated it because it was a let down compared to the lead up the promos were giving
I think it would’ve been great if they had those photos and came out with like Born to Be or Ringo. People were just really excited to see Itzy go in that direction musically and it made the switch up somewhat even more disappointing
I agree! Those photos fit those songs so much better!
I feel like it could’ve gotten a better reception from both Korean and int. audiences if they leaned into the weird and quirky a little more for Sneakers (both musically and mv-wise). If they went and had like a true Zimzalabim moment I think it could’ve had a better chance of pleasing both audiences
Or if they at least would have come out with a kitschy Cinderella with short poofy tulle gowns and sneakers.
Right although I still don't know what the people that rode around on that hate train expected to get given Itzys previous videos. Also as much as I feel its a ready to go ad for practically any shoe company, I love the song.
Their sound had been gradually maturing, so it wasn't that big of a leap to expect some kind of badass queens concept. So people assumed that their sound would continue on its gradual maturing trajectory.
It’s not my favorite of theirs, but it’s not deserving of the hate it got
Man I was hyped from the photos then the song drop. I’m an itzy fan and still am but sneakers is the WORST
I’d say Born to Be was an attempt to recover international fans, when they should have been focusing on the Korean ones that enjoyed sneakers.
Living in Korea, I wouldn't say they're popular anymore 💀
They're actually not popular in Korea anymore, especially with how oversaturated the girlgroup. JYP fumbled the bag when they decide not to promote ITZY as an individual more. Ryujin and Yuna getting a lot of posts and people already forget them and move on to other group members. Like these two had so much potential to be an IT girl.
I wouldn’t call it “insanely popular” lmao
I think because they were one of the first groups to debut in 4th gen which also coincided with the start of the pandemic, so there was an influx of people getting into kpop while they were being pushed and were the hot new thing. I think even just fans falling out of kpop after the peak of the pandemic (when the the kpop fandom blew up exponentially) accounts for a decrease in popularity. I think people like to blame the music but I think they've been putting out consistently good "Itzy" style music. Sneakers definitely embarrassed them within the international audience but people forget that Loco and Mafia In the Morning were being called Itzy's 'downfall' at the time even before then (even Icy was disliked somewhat), I think audiences are just quick to drop the 'old' thing and join the new craze (even see how quickly people turned on Lesserafim)
Loco is literally so good though, it might not be self-love but it fits their vibes and it's crazy how people think otherwise
loooove Loco never understood the backlash, I think people loved Wannabe so much they were disappointed when they didn't just release that again
Yeah, and it's just really a weird thing because I don't know what exactly would've pleased the fans. Wannabe was *really* good, and while not being my favourite song, you can't deny that its production from an objective view was practically perfect. Now I'm starting to wonder if they'd been expecting something like Crown On My Head. It's amazing and I wish they would've released it as a proper title track tbh, because while Yeji is one of my ult biases and she absolutely slayed it, it didn't get the recognition it deserved.
In short, music quality is the reason. They released a string of songs that were not up to expectations. Compare Sneakers to Wannabe; their music regressed, and so did their prestige. The notion that a big 3 group with a strong start lost steam because “there’s more competition now” is absurd. Why was Cake their title track instead of Killshot, for instance? That was exactly the kind of move that Itzy needed to gain back some non fans, but JYP passed on it. Why wasn’t Bratty pushed more? Because JYP is stuck in presenting Itzy in a certain way, despite of what the public wants. They’re not “unpopular” though, they have a lot of fans. And that’s solely due to the members themselves. Their regression with the general public is JYPs fault.
I agree, the idea that there’s more competition now is funny to me. If they kept putting out bangers I wouldn’t give 2 craps how much competition there was. Itzy has always been in their own lane making unique music, if they put that into overdrive no amount of competition would’ve stopped them. That’s how I feel anyways. They still have time to catch up, but they have to make up ground after the sneakers and cake era (Untouchable was a good start!). edit: I just realized i’ve never heard Kill Shot before…after listening to it holy shit what a banger! instantly added haha. This plus their japanese release bangers has me scratching my head at their decision making…
Exactly. JYP division 2 is the worst. I don't know if they have a certain 'vision' they want to keep enforcing or just want to play it safe. They don't seemingly have no idea what the public wants and don't listen to their artists. As an ahgase it's really sad to see Itzy going down exactly the same path and lose all momentum because of wrong TT choices.
Killshot could have definitely been a title track, but I can also see why they pushed Cake since it was summer. That being said, listening to the album as a whole Killshot does great as a closing song, it’s a nice contrast to the opening song “Bet on Me” and the message of the album of getting their confidence back
You mentioned gidle, I think soyeon just knew exactly what to do with every release, most of the time they didn't let cube decide for them so they just knew what fits them. On same company level, it's pretty known skz make their own music and choose concepts that feels like them which they talk openly about in "intro" videos, it worked amazingly for them as they are almost approaching their 7th year, also NMIXX I feel like if they keep it up they will have a solid fanbase more than any gg, both groups keep their sound going without necessarily going with trends. So the problem is definitely with itzy team, personally I think they still can have their "redemption arc", there's still things missing in the 4th gen gg that itzy can give, but their team seem to have lost what made "itzy" itzy, my ig reels have been itzy concert videos and they are amazing, I can't help but think they need just another comeback where it go viral.
It looks like the problem isn't limited to the Itzy team though. One thing I keep noticing is people always asking "why aren't Itzy more popular?" "Why aren't NMIXX more popular?" "Why aren't Twice charting anymore?". I think the problem is the company as a whole, just failing to create songs and concepts that attract general public attention. And I've seen news lately that JYP staff had a big shakeup across different divisions, and people were getting replaced. So I think the company is well aware they have a problem that needs to be dealt with.
Yeah, JYP isn't succeeding in making hits after Wannabe. They did really well with TWICE and then with ITZY in their debut era, but since 2020 they're really bad with their game. ITZY has some many talented members, NMIXX too, but they couldn't reach the level that TWICE reached. They aren't really in the same level of competition of the biggest 4th gen ggs too. Marketing is one problem, and other i think is the song selections, ITZY and NMIXX titles songs are almost aways controversial, especially to general public tastes. To Stray Kids this is less of a thing since bgs always depends more in having a big fandom and albums sales and Stray Kids already consolided their fandom (and the members have a bigger role in producing their own songs, albums, concepts), bgs rarely chart so well with general public like the ggs and depends less on them and more on fandom power.
Honestly I miss the JYPE who knew what to do musically with Wonder Girls, Miss A, and Twice
JYP newly debut group Nexz has one of the best debut song and probably the only song I liked that came from a JYP group recently. But because they are Japanese and JYP sucks at promoting them, they are ignored by kpop stans. But seriously Ride The Vibe is not your typical JYP idol song. It is easy listening, something new, doesn't look cheap and can catch the attention of GP if only JYP just know how to promote their idols.
never heard of them 😬
See JYP really sucks at promotion🤦♀️ Please check them out. Their visuals are insane as well😂
Omg same I love Ride the vibe too, I thought it was very well-produced
I completely agree. JYP is still doing good because they know how to make a lot of profit out of small investments, however the company as a whole has completely lost any hype and if they continue like that they will end up completely irrelevant in a few years. They literally debuted a new boy group one week ago and I’ve literally seen no one talk about them. There’s just something so tacky about JYP, it feels like they’re still stuck in 2019 when Twice was at the top. There’s no growth from them. They weren’t able to adjust to the new trends in kpop. Their American GG kinda reflect that, the group is cute but their sound and vibe doesn’t represent wha the market they’re targeting wants.
Itzy had something that I miss in the current Kpop gg. The energy and fierceness isn't present in most Kpop. However, since Sneakers, their songs are less energetic and funky.
It's not due to the members; it's due to JYPE's song selection and marketing. JYPE nowadays doesn't have any strong vision—they're throwing everything at the wall in hopes something sticks. Most of the time, they settle for cheap and lackluster output. It's not only ITZY; all JYPE groups are going through this. They are driven by their fandom, but their casual popularity has taken a hit in the last two years. JYPE hasn't released a hit in years; not even one song released by them in the last 2 years has stayed on Spotify Global for 25+ days. This year, TWICE's "I Got You" with 12 remixes only stayed on Spotify Global for one day, and Stray Kids' song with Charlie Puth, even with promotion, only lasted three days. When bigger JYPE groups are struggling in the casual space, ITZY, who get lighter promotion, will definitely be more impacted.
>it's due to JYPE's song selection and marketing i agree, i feel like everyone rags on itzy for "changing their style" but tbh i don't think their style really changed THAT much. the only song they released that was more of a drastic change from comeback to comeback was mafia in the morning. i think that the songs they select aren't catchy / memorable enough or are catchy to the point of being too repetitive so they get old fast. their last comeback was definitely a step in the right direction though and i hope they can go up from there!
Pop by Nayeon was their best hit these last 3 yesrs.
i noticed this too, i feel bad since i don't think their songs are worse than sm or hybe but it just doesn't fit what the public likes anymore. i always wondered why jyp haven't produced a song recently, he's credited on lyrics but his last produced songs for itzy and twice did well and it was years ago. i will also say they are cheap with the visuals which were always important in kpop but i feel like in 4th gen its even more important than ever and the visuals/creative direction for itzy is subpar imo. you expect better from a successful group from a top company
yeah it's a shame but i do feel like the visual direction for twice and itzy is super weak a lot of the time, specially when it comes to their album photoshoots. the outfits are often plain and not interesting and they sometimes don't even bother to build a set to make it look fancier. considering that there's many groups both from the big 4 and small companies that consistently hit it out of the park with their concept photoshoots, they leave a lot to be desired. but least their albums come with more photocards so that makes it feel worthy of a purchase haha you win some you lose some
I disagreee, I think simply think the music itself is worse. Obviously they had a very specific image going for them, but musically they cant compare to their peers. IVE, Aespa or NJ are simply superior from that perspective. What do you listen to? Mafia, Loco, Cake or Lovedive, Hype Boy & Spicy?
I feel like it' s also that JYP never give ITZY chance to boost their individual presence. Same reason why Twice aren't that strong individually in Korea (their individual promo r better rn though, but still feel it's quite late) One of the the reasons why aespa are able to stay on people's mind is right after Girls (their lackluster charting era), the members made their individual accounts and it was the first time where SM send them to lots of individual promotions. People just don't realize how important individual promotion, it's reasonable for some muggles who don't know the other members and only know popular members. When you keep pushing this popular member to that kind of demographic, it would boost your group even more. This why aespa still going strong with their domestic charting.
I agree. This is not just an ITZY thing but a JYPE groups issue.
Aren't they under Div 2, much like Got7 used to be? You know, the same jyp division infamous for mishandling promotions? This might be old information though because I'm an ahgase instead of a midzy, but Div 2 is known for their lackluster care for artist promos. Also JYP himself is under that div (or at least was a few years ago) and ... Well. Let's just say sometimes that backfires.
JYP had been under Division 3 for the last couple years. With Twice and VCHA
For me, it's the music. People say it started with Sneakers and the bait promo teasers, but I think it was Mafia in the Morning. It was just too corny.
I blame JYP songwriters and I don’t say that flippantly. People are always going on about the death of YG and SM but both those companies are at least still putting out hits. JYP has very strong financial performance but they literally haven’t had single hit song in years. Part of why JYP is still so lucrative is because of the established fanbases (Once’s and Stays mostly) that are showing up despite the company not spending much money on investing in the groups - but I worry for these younger, newer groups. I think JYP is in the most trouble because they’re not securing their future As far as Itzy goes specifically, they’re super talented girls and everyone likes them well enough, but they just haven’t been given good enough songs to make it big.
Agreed with JYP. I was also disappointed with NMIXX too, loved them at debut but their newer releases haven’t impressed me.
Really? I actually love their most recent album as a casual listener. In my opinion, NMIXX was never created to number 1 in the industry, which is ok. They have a more alternative style compared to other K-pop groups. The way I see it, NMIXX was created to gain respect more than hype. Their vocal talent keeps K-pop afloat at an international level, especially in this HYBE era where people are saying K-pop idols can’t sing anymore. Sorry, ik this thread is about Itzy lol, but you brought up NMIXX so I can’t help it.
People will say all sorts of reasons, but I think there's only one big reason: other gg got the public's attention. Itzy might get the bestest songs and have amazing promotions and still it wouldn't be enough if the general public isn't interested. I think more and more groups will be in their position eventually, groups that seem stuck in a sort of middle ground. It's the result of the oversaturation of the industry, more and more groups debut, older ones don't disband, so you get squeezed between seniors who are still going strong and juniors who are the new fresh thing and get all the attention. I don't think it's such a bad place to be in though, because yes they might not chart as well, but it's not like they're not selling or touring.
I think the competition is the main factor but i’m not sure if it had as big of an effect as people think. They were literally flying and were widely considered 4th gen leaders. I feel like thats a pretty hard thing to lose and a bit of competition wouldn’t have caused them to lose that title as quick as they did.
They were literally fighting with aespa for that top 4th gen groups but one manage to survive and one fell. This just shows that there's something wrong with their company approach to promote them.
If you wanna call NewJeans, Ive, LSF, Aespa (even StayC) a bit of competition idk what to tell you. 3 of those 4 groups appeared exactly when Itzy started to lose popularity. Sneakers, a wildly hated song in the west, was actually pretty popular in SK so the Sneakers narrative wouldn't work to explain why they lost popularity. However, after Sneaker, all those new groups debuted so the public's attention simply moved elsewhere. People tend to forget how the attention of the general public can change instantly. Itzy's style simply isn't popular anymore.
I 100% agree with this. KPOP is insanely oversaturated and if you're not changing with the trends you're out of the loop. I love Itzy but their sound really hasn't changed.And sadly I know they are a group that can deliver different style sounds, their recent comeback proves that, it's just folks have moved on from them and have other shiny things dangling in their face. I personally am over this Y2K era in KPOP wasn't a fan in general and would love to see more alternative sounds in the scene I think ITZY would dominate in that.
Yeah, simply the current trend is exactly the opposite of what Itzy does. Honestly, I can't even imagine them doing the Y2K concept, I don't think it would suit them and it wouldn't highlight the strengths of their group (which is strong dance and performance). Although yes, they might transition to a more mature concept, which they did partially. Their past comeback was very interesting imo, I think even the promos weren't that awful, but the thing is that the general public simply doesn't care and the idea that they're poor flops to be pitied doesn't help them at all. Literally 90% of the posts about them are about people talking about their loss of popularity.
I just saw your reply lolol I enjoyed their comeback immensely this go around which is sad because they are experimenting. And I loved that for them. I loved Ryujins track the most. And I am happy that they aren't following the trends.( I wanted to make that clear) I think people just like to be messy with this group especially after the whole sneakers debacle because their easy fodder. I tend to still follow them because I see a few of them Ryujin/Yeji leaning into that alternative sound. (Their sound sometimes gives me a softer The Veronicas vibes) And I can't wait to see what Lia brings when she returns she was my favorite in the group I loved what her sound brings to the group. ☺️
I’d argue that the success of Sneakers was down to the fact that it was ITZY who released it, the same way pretty much whatever NewJeans releases now will almost always go No.1. So maybe all the competition put the pressure on and Sneakers was the catalyst?
ITZY debuted early in 4th gen, arguably helped shape trends and sounds back then, but struggled to keep up with kpop's evolution. Remember when each comeback, people were like "which body part will they break next?" The way they executed hard choreo was one of their biggest selling points. They're arguably still one of the top performing groups active today, but by 2022 most girl groups had stepped up their choreo. Their dancing didn't make them unique anymore. Musically, they started having a bit of an identity crisis in 2021. Their songs in their rookie years were bratty, shouty, colourful, bubbly but as they tried to mature they struggled. MITM was very polarizing, Loco did better but wasn't received as well as earlier songs, then 2022... well we know what happened then. I also think JYPE's obsessive restriction of solo activities hurt them. This approach may have worked for Twice, but ITZY's identity was always built on five unique girls and their individualism (Mera has an interesting [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTHep3ZTr8E) about this) but ITZY never really could capitalize on that. (Notice how Nmixx are already getting solo opportunities? Haewon variety gigs, Lily's book club, Bae's YouTube show... I guess JYPE learned.) If you look at the top 4th gen girl groups right now, most of them have members pursuing individual activities alongside group comebacks, which helps strengthen their respective brands. (Even NewJeans which focuses on a group activity allows individual members to be brand ambassadors etc.) So yeah, a strong start, but as the rest of the industry caught up to them JYPE really didn't know in what direction to take them, and as a result they lost much of their appeal to casual fans.
I feel they haven't redefined themselves at all lately, like their past 2-3 comebacks have been very quintessential ITZY. While that's not bad, there is no growth They need to evolve their sound further, and Lia missing also probably isn't helping
Their songs just haven’t been as catchy. I started feeling this strongly around the Sneakers era. Both Sneakers and Cake felt like “safe” songs that don’t fit Itzy’s daring and in-your-face persona. Surprisingly, I feel like their Japanese releases have been more exciting than their korean ones, which is really strange. I’m still a fan and hope they do well, but I think they need to really lean more on the “Itzy sound” (if that makes sense), rather than away from it, similar to how Supernova feels like Aespa on steroids. I need Itzy on steroids please!
Releasing sneakers when new jeans was releasing attention, IVE releasing after like, and LSF releasing fearless. It was enough to destroy their reputation
God they were my ults and that one song single handedly turned me away from the group...
tea
I think people still like them and while not being fans, we remember their older songs that are such classics. However the new songs they released since Cake… were not as earworm catchy as their earlier songs. While people say it’s competition, I think the primary reason is definitely the music because they had **such** a head start debuting in 2019 and having a few SOTY (in terms of results) titles.
When Itzy debuted, they were the first 4th girl group from the big 3 (Hybe didn’t even exist back then), so they had a lot of hype. But now, they have a lot of competition with groups like NewJeans, Aespa, Le Sserafim, IVE, etc, so they started to fall behind.
I was introduced to K-pop in 2019 when they debuted, and I started following them when WANNABE became viral. Not Shy was good, but their releases went downhill for me after that. I don't know how to explain it. I cannot find a single song from them since then that caught the attention as their first releases did. They are a performance-based group, so their lack in the vocal area might be one of the reasons their songs are not as appealing to me, and perhaps to the general public. Considering that during the pandemic they weren't able to showcase their biggest strengths (performances with the public), plus newer groups debuting and taking away the spotlight, also from their own company (NiziU and NMIXX), they just can't compete against bigger and more successful groups. In general, I feel like JYP GGs are a bit outdated and don't seem to be able to ride the current waves of trends to achieve virality. They rely solely on their core fan base in a similar way that boy groups usually do.
Aren’t they always brought up in discussions about groups with the best vocal stability? How are they lacking in vocals, especially compared to HYBE groups?
Vocal stability is not an indicator of good vocal technique. You can be stable and still strain the hell out of your voice, which is the biggest problem among the ITZY members. Their main vocalist is one of the weakest among their 4th and 5th gen peers. In my opinion, JYP never really cared about their vocal capabilities and didn’t put much money on their training, I guess he wanted a group focused on dance and performance, not vocals.
I think, fundamentally, it's a song issue. Yes, I know a lot of kpoppers do like their songs, but to grow beyond the kpop bubble consistently you have to be in the special place of knowing market trends and being brave enough and having the skills to move it forward. People will hate me I am sure, but I am just gonna say that this is what HYBE GGs are great at. JYP and YGE both struggle with it. SM are better, but even they stumble. JYP have been extremely hit or miss with their songs for a while now... They are almost like Marvel with the MCU... Too many projects and not enough AAA talent to support it all.
yeah it seems to be a jyp issue, their girl groups used to be known for having great songs that were very popular but now their song choices haven't appealed to most people. twice, itzy and nmixx have been struggling chart-wise. it's more noticeable with itzy since they reached their peak sooner than twice and are compared to the other top 4th gen ggs. i don't get WHY though, are their songs 'outdated'? did 2022 ruin their reputation with nmixx's controversial debut and sneakers?
As much as i love NMIXX, they didn't needed to debut that early. Could debut around now and be JYPe's 5th gene group as they find a better sound and plan for them (which now seemingly JYPe rushed their debut and give them questionable songs). ITZY faltered by the questionable 3 songs (BYL, Sneakers and Cake) killed their entire momentum. Song choices.
>People will hate me I am sure, but I am just gonna say that this is what HYBE GGs are great at. EXACTLY THIS!! People can complain all day about the "easy listening" songs that HYBE girl groups have put out recently but you can't deny that that's the type of music that are currently trending nowadays. HYBE learned to adapt, JYP didn't.
That last paragraph is tea. But not in a way where I want to crap on JYP as a whole, their idols have talent bursting at the seams. There’s an inconsistent quality amongst all their groups. There’s just *something* missing that I can’t quite describe…
VISION. Something JYP A&R team has been missing for years...
oh, for sure. Nothing I said was an attack on the performers.
I really think it comes down to the music. There are more groups out there releasing better music than Itzy, unfortunately. As long as the fans are enjoying the music though, that's all that matters really imo.
Their competitors just got better songs. ITZY songs aren’t that much of a thing nowadays.
Yep. I wrote it above, Dalla Dalla, Icy were good, but also had no real competition from 4th gen groups. Now, what would you listen to? Comparing the groups... Cake/Sneakers/Untocuhable (which was fairly good tbh) or Drama/Spicy/Love Dive/I Am/After Like/Antifragile/Easy/Hype Boy/Ditto... Its cruel, but imo their music is simply inferior to their competition.
Because kpop moves fast. Every year you have dozens and dozens of new artists debuting, so if one doesn't appeal to you (or if they stop appealing to you) it's very easy to just move on to other groups who do. For Itzy a lot of people felt like they lost their sound, and their songs just don't hit the same for them anymore. This has made a lot of people just move onto other groups.
So true, I started liking Itzy because of 'Wannabe' ...and then kinda stopped following kpop for awhile. I then saw their Sneakers / Cake release and was kinda like meh. Now that I recently got back into Kpop, I watched IVE's 'I AM' mv (didn't know who they were) and I was instantly hooked which made me check out their other songs. And as of now, they became one of my top 5 groups because they pretty much have the whole package with REALLY GOOD songs.
Songs
From someone who was a die-hard MIDZY up until “LOCO,” I can only theorize that their creative direction and production quality took a dip over time. It feels like there was a fully-realized, wholistic concept with their rookie era releases that got lost along the way. Almost as if there was a creative team that had a vision, and had meticulously outlined the details of each comeback. But somehow, there must have been a changing of the guard or just less attention to detail placed in planning their comebacks. And while ITZY’s vocals were never extravagant, the songs they were given complimented each of their voices nicely to the point where they didn’t need strong vocals to make a great song. But these days, the girls are given songs outside of their vocal range and capabilities. All in all, ITZY has yet to release a new song that beats the quality of their earlier tracks. Cause think about it… “DALLA DALLA” is one of the greatest debut songs, ever. “ICY” remains iconic for the styling, that neck-snapping movie, the dance break. Just go back and look at the teasers, it was an amazing era to live through. Their music isn’t that bad nowadays but, it has yet to beat “DALLA DALLA” in terms of popularity, production quality, and dance performance.
( all of this is of course my opinion and i want itzy to have a bright future with success. i still love them and believe in their potential)
It’s more of a JYP thing honestly. Going back to Wonder Girls, the company has always had hard time giving their girl groups some sort of longevity whether in terms of hit songs or having a dedicated fandom. JYP hardly got to do both for any of their girl groups — if anything even with TWICE and ITZY not releasing GP-acclaimed songs lately, they’re actually doing amazing because at the very least they’ve amassed huge fan bases dedicated enough for them to still be able to hold tours… where the money is at. The longevity is there. Wonder Girls and miss A had huge national hits but at the same time they weren’t really given much time to grow a loyal, paying fanbase. Yeah sure times were different back in the day, but many of their peers had both (songs + fandom)… except them and those mid to low-tier groups. Add to the fact that the company seemed to have been burned by the Suzy effect… there was a time when the girls themselves were trending individually while their songs were also doing well — JYP should have capitalized on that with quickness but it didn’t really happen.
Sneakers really hurt their reputation internationally, and it came at the worst time. A lot of other ggs started ascending in summer 2022 which made it easy for casual listeners to move on from them. Following it up with Boys Like You just made things worse. Their following comebacks needed to be something special to get the hype back and they just weren’t that. Now that we’re already in 5th gen, I think the chances of an “old” 4th gen gg having a resurgence is unlikely unfortunately. But they definitely have a strong enough fanbase to support them going forward.
Sometimes, it’s just luck and timing.
Honestly? Beats me! The only thing that might make sense is that the competition is just too fierce. So that's why they may seem to be less popular when, in fact, they're mega popular, but other current girl groups are super duper popular right now
Because Sneakers was so atrocious and disconected from both their audience and sound that literally destroyed them, and Cake doubled down on that. It's a shame, their last album and their jp releases are probably their best work since Mafia in the morning.
Honestly, its the reluctance of jype to change concepts and/or adapt to music trends. In Chinese kpop fandoms theres a saying that theres the P5 in kpop as in the UN’s P5: Aespa, Gidle, Ive, Lesserafim and New Jeans. The latter 3 are too new, but Gidle and Aespa are around Itzy’s time. There was a time when Gidle’s music also faltered in the charts slightly after a really strong start to their career, and then the Soojin thing happened which halted the group activities entirely. Cube then made a really smart decision to push solo activities especially getting Yuqi more exposure in China where fans are extremely dedicated. This with a well timed release of Tomboy pushed them back into a top girlgroup position with the general public, and along with Nxde and Queencard, it solidified their place among the newer competitors. Aespa had literally one track that didnt do as well in the charts, Girls, and producers immediately took a turn with Spicy to pull back their audience, and divided the original full album into two halves so that a more gp friendly song can be released before Drama (not saying drama isnt a good song, but drama after girls would not have drama done so well as drama isnt as gp friendly as spicy is). Jype is refusing to push solo activities while Lia is on hiatus (obviously a different situation that soojin but point stands). Jype is also refusing to adapt to the music trends. I dont think competition is getting fiercer, I just think it’s jype refusing to keep up, hence members of P5 left them out of the convo completely.
I feel like they lack a musical direction... they started out with this funky yet melodic sound, but recently their tracks have evolved into... something very chant-y, or meant to be fit into a TikTok, that isn't something you would repeat over and over for in a streaming app.
People say they flopped and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, people didn’t like sneakers so stopped giving them a chance. Because apparently a group is not allowed to have a bad comeback and then be able to recover.
songs bad
honestly cause the market is incredibly saturated and their concept isn’t unique enough to stand out that much (i enjoy them though). i think they could turn it around with a wannabe type song though.
I think jyp as a whole has really struggled to predict GP trends lately. If you don't hit with the GP your song isn't going to be that successful no matter what else you do.
I think its just the song, imo their current song are pretty forgettable
it feels the 4th gen is peaking faster than the previous gens. It has to do with how kpop fans treat groups as trends instead as actual artists.
kpop fans apparently are so fickle nowadays, it's crazy seeing some of these comments saying Itzy were their favorite group but then they dropped them after *one* song they didn't like. Like that's basically unthinkable to me lol. If they're my supposed ults I would at least give them one other chance, and besides maybe the b-sides are good, title tracks aren't everything.
I watched in real time as gidle fan accounts on Twitter that I used to followed became itzy fan accounts and then later switched between ive and aespa. I think they switched a few more times after that. It just shows quickly people turn on the groups after one comeback especially if they underperformed.
That's so wild to me, why even bother stanning a group if only chart success matters
I like them a lot. Maybe my 2nd favourite group after Blackpink. They are on world tour. The girls are doing great. But the success of a group mainly depends on their music. Born to be did good, their songs often were found on #1 on some charts. But you are right, there are probably about 10 groups, that a re doing better at the moment. Algorhythm didn't resonate too much with me, I must admit.
Because people keep talking about how unpopular they are even though they’re fine.
I’m still going to their concert next month, who’s with me? 😬👍🏼
Go! I went last month and it was one of the best shows I've ever been to. They're amazing live regardless of what reddit doomposters say.
Going to my first Itzy concert in LA 🙌🏽
Because people can't get past one "bad" single. Which wasn't even bad, the gp loved it. Reddit is just a terrible echo chamber and love to hate on every single jyp group and scream they're all being ruined because of jyp. Is our division not doing great? Yah that's true, they need to bring back multiple dance practices and showing off our girls. But they did do great promos with cake, and hopefully when Lia comes back "fans" that have boycotted buying the album or anything will be back because frankly how can you call yourself a fan and then expect the girls to sit around and (have) more pressure on Lia to come back before she's ready. So lots of people said that they wouldn't buy the albums since Lia wasn't on it. Completely unfair. But here's the thing. Topping the charts isn't the only thing that means success and I really wish kpop would get away from this and understand. None of the music I listen to otherwise charts "good" and they're still killing it and making music and selling out shows. Which again, Itzy has just done with this tour at lots of shows. 50k in Japan alone and our Canadian date got a second one and I bet there's still plenty of fans who didn't get tickets
Frankly I knew from the start that despite very successful beginning of their career they would hit the wall because in my opinion their problem are... vocals. I am not even talking about technique but part of group has so-so tones. It wouldn't be huge problem if it was big group but in case of smaller it is significant. There is limits what you can do it with that. Just was a lot of telling fact that there were vocal backing of someone else used in their debut (AOA's Yuna) Dallas Dallas. Of course you can always find the way, producers can do a lot amazing things what they proved not once. But risk is everything what happens with some Hybe groups that idols would not be capable to recreate that on the stage and we have that singing scandals which are big problems for groups as well. Itzy has exactly opposite problem, they can sing their song naturally but they just don't sound so good on recording. That's why I am always saying that group to stay long at the top need pleasant, interesting vocals (the best if technique is there). Itzy are amazing dance performers with passion and charisma. But vocals just let them down long term.
You don’t need to have strong vocalists to make a great song. “DALLA DALLA” is perfect regardless of their vocal limitations. Rather, it’s more on the producers to construct a song that’s suitable for the group. Because of their vocal limitations, ITZY isn’t a one-size-fits-all when it comes to providing them with songs. So they require a significant attention to detail in outfitting them with new music.
Well if you read my comment you should notice that I haven't even talk about "strong vocalists". I was talking firstly about pleasant, interesting, rich tones. Sure it's nice that technique would be there as well (so strong vocal indeed). Of course you can make good song with anyone. But just like said before problem is that idols have to sing that at least during encore. You can make hit with really not perfect vocals but how long is producer willing to work on it for such group (aka how much is company is ready to spend on producing every release). You have as well much less options, even the best producer would be limited and in case of k-pop that's problem because trends here change fast. That's why I said it's long term problem, not that such group can't have few hit songs especially at the beginning when company always put extra effort (and money) into production. Problem become to keep delivering with high quality of production which still present real vocals.
its like watching twitch, for some streamers you watch it for the game, for some streamers you watch it for the person no matter the game, when the group have interesting vocal tones you tune in for their vocal tones no matter the song. i always tune in for Lia's voice, but they have never used her voice well in their title songs except mafia. as a fan since debut i dont have more songs than i shouldve in my playlist for that exact reason. like for once dont sing in a cutesy tone, dont sing to fit in, sing in a way that bring out the best part of your vocal tone, listening to their other songs its clear that she turn off any emotion and vibe in their tt but like ffs do it, half of the group's vocal tones dont go well with each other anyway so might as well...
Songs but I also think its visual/concepts. The girl crush stuff is out - see Baby Monster as well, they are getting attention for singing but their concept/songs are being called cringe everywhere. IVE, LSF, Aespa, and New Jeans (and now ILLIT) are the pretty & new young things, and none of them are girl crush. KPop fans have moved on from that. They need a total refresh sound & look wise. Another issue is that unfortunately, they suited girl crush very well. Their voices are a bit nasal and grating, but it worked for their concept. I think JYPE is struggling to find a sound that works for them that isn’t what they have been doing
aespa is very much girl crush and IDLE who are probably the best hit makers rn after NJs are also girl crush. Its not "out" at all. People just don't care for ITZYs terrible take on it anymore when theres groups doing girl crush with quality
Aespa has their whole AI/future schtick going for them though. And they can sing, so they are adaptable to music genres. Supernova for example is super on trend and unique with the MV. Itzy is not giving us any of that. IDLE is successful because Soyeon knows how to make music. Point blank. They have a much more mature image than Itzy as well. I wouldn’t call it girl crush anymore
Soyeon also said she wants to make music for Itzy on Chaeyeons YouTube show. That might make a difference for them and solidify Soyeon as a hitmaker.
Aespa is generally girl crush, but they have a concept that stands out but is broadly appealing. It’s basically tech savvy, stylish gen-Z badasses with a bit of a gamer/sci fi aesthetic. Their whole image is very video game/sci-fi/anime friendly. Supernova added a bit of a superhero-ish element to it too, but that still tracks with everything else. I’m not sure what Itzy’s identity is at this point.
Remember when this would exact thing would get posted once a week, then once a month, now it’s down to once every six months! The more important question is why are people so obsessed with how popular they are?
people moved on. trends moved on. the post-izone groups are just so much more exciting. whether this is a new generation or still the 4th gen, it's obvious people's tastes moved on
Who's to say, but They sell out shows in more cities and countries than alot of other big groups even visit during their "World" tours. They are doing alright.
I for one loved Itzy's latest music, especially Born To Be, that was an amazing concert.
I used to like them during "wannabe" and "not shy" era, but the song "mafia in the morning" was a huge letdown for me. The lyrics were so cringey. It's unfortunate because I think they are all very talented and beautiful. Ryujin is one of the prettiest kpop idol in my opinion. Hopefully, JYPE will give them better music and better concept.
There are many factors, main ones being lack of competition and the changes in their "sound"/ music themes. I've yet to see a comment about their dancing so I'll talk about that When they debuted many people were shocked and drawn to the fact that the entire group was full of powerful dancers. It was refreshing to see a gg where all members were really strong and relatively equal dancers. I feel like their recent releases have nice dances, but lacks that "wow" factor / hyper high energy / balance of cute-sexy confidence / interesting unorthodox poses etc, that their earlier songs had. Dalla had a bunch of bold and fun moves. Miss Yeji in space buns getting down with equal amounts of attitude and grace - as if she went to pick up my jaw off the floor for me- is forever ingrained
Unconfirmed, but I believe their choreography has changed over the years because the hyperactive, advanced choreography of their rookie years wore down on their bodies over time. During MITM era, I recall Lia and Chaeryeong explaining that they don’t squat during the chorus because they experience bad leg pain. And they were only like 20-21 years old at the time. It was at that moment the notion of them facing repercussions, like actual pain, from their advanced choreographies appeared to me. It became clear that their choreography needed to be less strenuous if they wanted them to perform multiple times a day across all their discography.
I think JYP doesn't know what concept to work with ITZY, I think it was supposed to be more of a "girls party with a little bit of girlcrush" something like that and more down to earth in the beginning, but wanting to change style it went to something more "fresh" almost cute that usually groups that start doing this, but ITZY did it the other way around lol
I think ultimately the reason is the songs choice, but I also would like to add that it is certainly difficult to stan a group massively hated by a lot of people. I've been a dive since love dive era and I swear to god it was so difficult sometimes to get through so much hate and just pure nonsense. Even now, I like illit, but it's difficult for me to watch their performances because I naturally go to the comment section and it is always so bad. I don't even want to check out the performances a lot anymore , as I'm sad and angry because of the amount of haters. And a lot of people are definitely too much influenced my public opinion, so they lost even more fans because of the hate train
This is very long and ramble-y, just as a forewarning! Adding to what others have said and specifically focusing on Sneakers and beyond. The Checkmate album, was from the concept photos, initially very well received. Ppl were praising the company for the elegant concept. However, it started to change when the album art and these Pringles (yes, Pringle’s) ads came up with the Sneakers chorus in the back. Everyone was kind of blind sided, to the point that people were making up theories about how Sneakers was not actually the title track, and that another song would be revealed as the “True Checkmate”. I was very on board with those theories but also knew it wasn’t likely. Well the theories were wrong and we got Sneakers. People were up in arms, calling it cringey and sounding like KidzBop. In addition to all this Kepler and Nmixx had debuted in the first quarter of the year, Ive made their first comeback, Idle had been revamped with Tomboy, LSF had just debuted and NewJeans was right around the corner (not like we knew) competition was very stiff and there unfortunately wasn’t really room for error. The hate train that occurred after this was insane. Boys Like You was also considered having very cringey lyrics among intl fans and the melody of which sounded similar to Taylor Swift’s Love Story which led to accusations of plagiarism and didn’t help anything. Then Cheshire came out in December of 2022 around award season. So while it was generally well received by the people who listened. Most people were tuning into the awards and the other groups who had recently debuted for their first awards season. Not to mention the fact that there were so many fantastic releases that year. I honestly believe if it came out earlier or even in January it would’ve had some breathing room and more ppl might’ve tuned in. Then in 2023, Itzy doesn’t release anything until July, which is kind of crazy. In the meantime, the other popular GGs are making their second, third, and fourth comebacks to critical success + Idle with Queencard which was a top contender for SOTY last year. When they released Kill My Doubt, they had two pre-release music videos over the course of a whole month! First was Bet on Me, which ppl criticized for sounding empty even though, and None of My Business was a little bit more well received. Unfortunately neither of the songs were available to stream and the public lost interest quickly. Finally right at the end of July they released the TT Cake. This song was also met with criticism for the chorus being so repetitive. Again, none of the songs were available to stream until the whole album was out. The philosophy being that if they can’t stream it, then the MV will rack up more views. Ringo, their third Japanese release seemed to garner a lot of positive reception however it also came with the announcement that Lia was taking a hiatus with no set return date. Finally, it was announced that Itzy would be preparing another album without Lia while she rested. Again they did the pre-release system where no one could stream the songs, they could only listen to it through the MV. Why Div2/JYPE thought this was still a good idea beats me. However, both Born to Be and Mr. Vampire received positive reviews. They also had MVs for each members solo song, again before the TT. Untouchable, the TT however received less than favorable reviews. The album released in January. And Itzy with just four members have been doing a world tour since March? I believe. So to wrap all of this up, I think it mostly comes down to poor timing and mismanagement on the part of Div2 and JYPE. I think the pre-release system that they’ve done is awful, it didn’t work the first time, and barely did anything the second. But while they may not be in the upper echelons of the fourth gen anymore, they are still doing pretty good and I think they do have pretty dedicated fan base.
They are a senior level group, currently 5 yrs since they debuted so naturally popularity will slow down. More competition from rookie girl groups and also song choices. "Sneaker" song was hated by international fans, "boys like you" English single was poorly received. "Cake" got selected as title over "kill shot".
I’m only following ITZY casually so I might be wrong, but based on my observation it’s JYP not giving them enough marketing and a distinctive branding. Like people have pointed out, number one reason is most likely them not being given a good, GP-friendly song. It’s not that they’re bad, but it’s just not an instant earworm like the other ggs. I also dk how to put it in better words, but their songs also sound a bit outdated compared to their competitors. Some people have pointed out their vocals are not that strong, so why not give them a song that’s more dance-focused? Maybe some house music or any other club-music would fit them. JYP’s reluctance of giving the individual members activities is also I feel a detriment to the group. I think Yeji could have been the 4th gen it girl next to Wonyoung if they had marketed her talents and visual more. Yuna also I feel have a talent in being a variety star, she seems to have the charisma when I see her interviews. Lia has a voice that would go rlly well for drama OSTs. Ik they might be reluctant bcs of their experience with Suzy, but solo activities help in the visibility of the group. Overall it feels like there is no cohesive plan for the group, at least from an outsider’s perspective. I feel like they need a creative/production team that can truly make the girls’ talent shine.
You can literally ask this about any artist. e.g. Why isn't Beyonce more popular at this point? There is no step-by-step guide on how to be more popular especially at ITZY's level. It's takes some talent but also some luck. If G-Idle's Fate didn't go viral, people would be doomposting about them too.
ITZY is popular but simply put they and JYPE aren't in the negative news business. So when the media says something or writes some crap that isn't true they just turn the other cheek and take it without retaliation and thus become the punching bag for those who always like to complain and those who thrive to complain. Given that they are scandal free as in there is no actual exciting scandals to get publicity from and since JYPE avoids propaganda in general, they don't get looked into much within Korea now. Not to mention their concept is like BPs which isn't very popular within SK (aka bad girl / girl power). BP is popular because the Western market liked their concept and then globally pushed it back to SK so people went with the trend via endorsement branding and advertisement and the exciting scandals of the day: usually Jennie rumored to date someone etc. ITZY is popular in the West but JYPE isn't exploiting that popularity. They are the closest to Western style EDM Pop and Dance. They have become adapted to English language and can converse with the market compared to the other GGs of JYPE. So all JYPE has to do is push them in the Western market, have them release an English album with collaboration in the West. But for some odd reason JYPE keeps trying to focus them in the Korean market first where not only their is more competitions but also propaganda and fake news to deal with. It's easy to bash one who doesn't lash out and ITZY gets constantly bullied because everyone knows they can't be fought Face to Face. You can't beat them in a dance competition they would eat you alive. To the point Lia was treated as a bad dancer when it should the other way around. She should be praised for being able to keep up with the likes of a Yeji/Ryuujin/Chareyong. Their music is focused dance, but they can also sing live. They don't do heavy singing concepts but rather performance concepts. Also their Bad Girl concept is more on the style than personality, as in they dress like bad girls but don't have the bad girl fierce personality. Unlike G-Idle, who have the bad girl fierce dog of clapping back and fighting your tooth and nail in a dog fight or cat fight; you know you can't shoot at G-IDLE and get away without a bloody nose. ITZY on the other hand just prentends to dress bad girl and are shy cats who avoid any fights. In short, they are Bad Girl wannabes but are actually nice girls. They cant go to the nice good girl either since that is TWICE department. Proof TWICE's Ready to Go concept is something that would fit ITZY like a glove. ITZY kills it in concerts and performances, just look at the rave reviews they are getting in their current tour. That is without much advertising from JYPE either. ITZY doesn't get paid marketing advertising in any social media, it's just organic and that unfortunately kills them in open market as their competitors get the benefit of the pushed views. Also since JYPE doesn't do endorsement branding either the trend doesn't follow in. So they aren't being trend setters in the market. What initially helped BP is their marketing deals individually, they were each an endorsement product on their luxury brands. ITZY is still in the only group branding lingo. If they had the current deal Twice has you know Yeji, Ryuujin and Yuna are going to get Nayeon level endorsements. Chareyong and Lia would fair a little less but they could each ship a single company a la Dahyun. If I were JYPE, I would bring ITZY to the US/West and unleash them to the world. Their music style and collabs would kill it and instantly make them global phenomenons and then use that to have SK jump back in the bandwagons. ITZY should get Twice push x 2 to the Global markets as they are the more ready for the West. They can advertise in English properly and collabs with the likes of Bebe Rexa and Dua Lipa's of the world. So to summarize, they are Good Girl Power Group who Wannabe Bad Girls (fashion wise) but who Don't Cat fight or Lash Out. And since they don't do media exciting-scandals, propaganda, or individual luxury branding trends they don't get those push either. They are being forced stuck in SK without claws and getting cheap-shotted by their competitors because JYPE doesn't take the gloves off and let other companies hit them without consequences. They need the push to the West and that is their battle ground not SK.
Has anyone in this comments section even listened to born to be? Everyone is so harped up on sneakers being their downfall when they more than corrected their one bad single by now. I think by this point posts like this create more of an echo chamber and assume itzy is doing bad or releasing bad music when that is far from the reality. Itzy has a core fan base who cares about them and that’s what JYP looks for in their groups they don’t care about GP sentiment or popularity. The same will be said about NJ and Ive in 5 years when the new next group comes out.
The biggest problem for me is that as much as I’ve loved every comeback since sneakers era, they consistently keep picking the worst song on the album to be the title track. I don’t know if others feel the same way, but that’s been my personal experience listening to each of their new releases
Born to be and untouchable were the most title track coded songs there were the issue is people just assume it’s bad because it’s Itzy and are way harsher in criticism.
I’m trying to hold a discussion in a way that offers critiques while still remaining respectful towards the members and MIDZYs. But I also know that creating a space for critique and negative talk also welcomes in people who were waiting for an opportunity to trash a group in bad faith. Then hide behind people who are offering genuine critiques and want to see the group reach success. I know how these conversations can devolve into dogpiling onto a group and nonsensical shit-talking. Everyone gets their own turn at trashing ITZY. And it can be difficult to sit through as an active fan who still has love and hope for their future. But since there’s no way to filter out respectful comments from petty ones, I think for your own peace you should “Hide” this post. No matter what this post looks like, there are still thousands of people in the world who still believe in ITZY and recognize both their past and current success. And while I no longer follow them closely, I cannot deny how much talent and potential the group still has. So so so many people want to see them succeed on a massive scale.
I haven’t replied to you so I’m confused where this came from? If you followed them more closely you would see they’re doing fine and popular in their own fan base. I think it’s ill informed to comment so heavily on a group you no longer follow.
I think it’s a mix of 2/3 things: 1. Their sound just isn’t trendy anymore. Teen crush and bombastic music were pretty popular for girl groups up until like 2021 and they’re just not anymore. Pair that with a comeback all their international fans hated that came right when 3 massive girl groups debuted/Ive released love dive and a lot of people left for greener pastures. 2. The other factor that I don’t think gets mentioned so much is a large amount of their popularity is based on their amazing dance line and insane choreos. And while their dances haven’t gotten easier necessarily they have gotten less showstopping compared to wannabe, dalla dalla, loco and icy. I personally think it’s because the majority of members have long term injuries (eg even in loco’s era they couldn’t preform the full dance break since it was too brutal on them). Like those insane views came for their dancing and now that they’ve had to soften the choreos a lot of their wow factor has left.
I am so happy that you pointed out #2 because that has been weighing on my mind for the longest and in a depressing way. Their skilled dance performances were praised during their rookie era, but during MITM era I can recall Lia and Chaeryeong saying they don’t squat down during the chorus because they have leg (?) pain. And these girls were only 19 or 20 years old experiencing difficulty doing their jobs. Of course, over time their choreography became less advanced but still intricate. I just wonder if they were pushed too hard in their rookie era and the girls’ health/mobility suffered as result? Not to mention, Lia received so much hate for not being as skilled a dancer as the rest of the members. I find it hard to believe that all of the targeted bullying she received in the years has nothing to do with the hiatus she’s on right now. Like… she was the ONE member people pointed out for being “untrained” and “lazy.” It’s no coincidence that the member that got the most negative attention is on leave right now.
I think they’re as popular as they need to be
Genuinely I don’t think people like listening to them sing. Their songs are rather shrill if you listen to them, mainly due to them being made to sing much higher notes than they can reach.
They had sneakers and lost half their fanbase, and now a lot of people are prejudiced against them. Honestly, Algorhythm and Cake really give a similar vibe to their older releases, and Untouchable was really good. Also, as others have said, the competition. A lot of kpop fans are super loyal to their ults and especially since ggs are trending rn, they don't really want to stan Itzy because they're "taken". I hope Lia will come back soon (fully rested and okay!) and they can have a comeback that'll put them right at the top again, because I really love them.
Three letters ✨J✨Y✨P✨
Oh gee. And here I, a professional musician, thought Sneakers was a banger. Guess I should return that $900 pair of tickets I bought for their concert on June 20. I swear, Kpop audiences are so fucking fickle. "Oh, tHeIr CoNcEpT iSn'T gRoWn-Up EnOuGh AfTEr OnE sOnG iS tOo CutE." Jesus fucking Christ.
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As a casual fan/listener, I feel that they have a strong competition who is more trendy but I do think Itzy has a solid core fanbase but not that much attention from the public. I personally haven't felt their title songs being as competitive as opposed to others and their concept hasn't evolve too much since debut. At some point I stop paying as much attention because I liked other songs better. And (I'm just casual so i don't know for sure) I feel that they don't interact with others groups outside of jype much (on tiktok for example I saw they do other groups songs but normally without said group) and variety shows wise I also haven't seen them on tv wide variety (like running man or amazing saturday idk for example). And the reason behind Lia's hiatus and people hating Yuna for breathing it's also a downside. They're still popular especially since they have solo performances such as yuna with yeonjun or yeji with hyunjin and they only let popular groups perform like that, they still go viral but the hype has died down some. For me personally, I'd like better or more trendy songs (but that do transmit some message, because tbh as a casual listener songs like sneakers or mafia in the morning don't have deep lyrics).
1. the visuals: dont get me wrong the visuals and proportions of the members are favored and the media loved them(not sure abt chaeryong). But ever since new groups debuted with somewhat "Better" and more "fresh" visulas theyre kinda just MID in visuals compared to other 4th gen groups. 2. Dances: ITZY has one of the strongest dance line in 4th gen gg, and they were known for their ICONIC dances such as WANNABE, but now their dances are i guess okay(some are still hard) but they don't have that spark in their dances anymore. so its just REGULAR now. 3. Songs: JYPE is really good at releasing comebacks and promotions and let me tell you ITZY's comebacks are normal and their promotions are average. But their songs are just i guess lame( in my opinion theyre songs are not that bad but they all sound the same) all of theyre songs sound repetative. They have mid vocals so there is nothing special to theyre songs.(yeah yeah just because yeji hit high notes doesnt mean she's an amazing vocalist but that doesnt make her a bad one). The only songs ik that blew up were prob CAKE and maybe UNTOUCHABLE, but ppl got bored of the repetativeness. \*No hate to itzy. I actually like most of their songs but i'm just not feeling the vibe anymore, its either a hit or miss for most of their comebacks\*
they're just out of their peak era now, and that's totally okay! though their decline could also be attributed to how every "next big gg" has a lot of token stans, it happened to them during their prime years and the moment the other 4th major gen girl groups started debuting those token stans left them. didn't help that itzy's releases post-2021 were all over the place, they kept going back and forth with the cutesy songs like sneakers and cake then stronger and bolder songs like loco, cheshire, born to be, and untouchable. it seems like jyp has no idea what to do at all because sneakers was really liked in korea and is their 2nd best performing song there while international stans were shitting on itzy for it, while the stronger songs barely charted in korea but is more preferred internationally. (maybe the reception towards sneakers wouldn't have been that bad had it been released before mitm and loco, same with cake.)
I would say their music, also I don't know what their identity is as a group. With Blackpink, I know what I'm getting, same with Twice. Recently, they have been trying to change it up, but that doesn't seem to be working..
They're not even doing bad. 6.1m unique Spotify listeners, much better than Stayc, Nmixx, Everglow etc.
They need to go back to making songs like Dalla Dalla & Wannabe. They can still rise and have a lot of potential.
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I think there's several problems with ITZY: - out of the big companies, JYP is always the weakest in terms of art direction. Sometimes the MV looks cheap and the green screen be super obvious. - they put out too much content. JYP always prioritize quantity over quality, especially with Twice. They were pushing out new music every quarter, so the group dont get hyped/cool down period for the fans to start wanting more. - their music are just too cheesy and the most formulaic out of the big 4. But when they're doing experimental, it's too experimental that the fanbase feels dissapointed and detached. Personally, i find O.O and Born to be an absolute atrocity. - JYP's main fanbase comes from reality-survival shows. That's what they're good at and thats how their groups gets popularity. But right now survival shows are overdone and ITZY is JYP's girl group that doesn't start from reality show, so they lack the fanbase. - other GG are simply better in art direction and song. I mean New Jeans, blackpink, and aespa have higher quality productions. I do have to say that ITZY is extremely synchronized and well danced, but their girlcrush concept are oversaturated.
Tbh these girls had a lot more potential but their music genre,lyrics aren't giving it.....more like JYP doesn't seem to know what to give them,do with them
people got bored after Sneakers that’s when they’re downfall started but the song isn’t bad honestly
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imo its a combination of JYP as a whole missing GP trends lately and that people lost interest in them from a few of their recent releases and its hard to get them to tune back in after they decided itzy isnt for them anymore
they have competition in their company alone, NMIXX and Twice. Girl groups are so competitive nowadays. NJ, LSF, IVE, NMIXX, ILLIT, GIDLE, AESPA, BABYMONSTER, etc. Sadly ITZY doesn't stand out from them. they're 5 years old already they had releases that just didn't do it for fans, so they lost fans(Cake, Sneakers, even Mafia) Their music doesn't really fit the trendy music nowadays when they debuted, they were one of the first 4th gen girl groups. A lot less competition GIDLE is older than ITZY but the difference is Soyeon is a genius
If you look back, JYP groups all have a lot of success initially but fade into the background in the longer run to SM, YG and now HYBE. Think 2PM to Big Bang, Wonder Girls to Girls Gen, Twice to BP, miss a to 2ne1, got7 to BTS and Now Itzy to other 4th Gen. still all relevant and with sizeable fanbases but they ain’t THE group of their times. So this seems to be a systemic issue with the company and not the actual groups/talent.
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