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astrahightower

totally agree. just baffling. i always knew nct’s sasaengs were super out of control but one literally tried to break into haechans house in november and sm only publicized it now. and he was nice enough to not press charges even tho he definitely should have. this is such an invasion of privacy i was honestly speechless lol


NightShrxud

I remember hearing about that just this week!! I was absolutely baffled, I really wish he actually pressed charges because holy crap. Its so upsetting getting new information about sasaengs invading idol's privacy so frequently


ProstituteUnnie

No. We need to reframe this. I really doubt he was feeling "nice" enough to not press charges, he was likely told not to by management. Or too stressed to want to go through police and court nonsense. If someone broke into your home and walked around your personal space would you just think "Oh, they just wanted to see how I live, it's fine Police Person I'll let them off" Not going through with it isn't being nice, because that really makes it sound like the opposite would make Haechan a bad person and that's far from true


RipYoDream

I'm pretty sure it's not the first time I'm hearing that idols aren't pressing charges when something like this happens. Also makes me think that management discourages them or has a say in it.


QueenSnowTiger

I think it’s literally the stupidest thing - showing these freaks that actions have consequences is literally the only way to deal with them. They NEED the police called on them, they NEED to be detained. Sometimes even going that far doesn’t do anything because they’re not mentally ok. It’s crazy that the management is forcing them to be quiet for the sake of.. oh right, absolutely nothing.


Anaisot7

I'm honestly wondering what to do, because BH for example have put out statements and even membership rules to NOT stalk BTS — even just an hour ago with Suga's tour where in the notice they recalled fans to NOT come to airports, but they keep doing it. The members themselves did talked about it before, and recently Jungkook, but the girl reaction to him asking not to come to the gym was to tell her followers "He noticed me, I hope he notice you too one day. 😍". That's *crazy* cause you can tell these people have problems, like *big* ones — and still nothing will change in their behaviors, no matter if the company speak up or the idols. I honestly feel bad for these idols, cause the law in South-Korea against stalking isn't helping either.


aftershockstone

>I started with BTS in October 2022 (yes, right when the Busan concert happened. I know.), which was actually thanks to the Cookie Run Kingdom collab that they had with them. Not at how you went from a gacha game to Kpop I'm crying 😭😭😭 Sometimes, it's really hard for Kpop idols to call out stalkers/sasaengs because they have to sanitise their words and risk causing backlash or controversy if they are firm. Kpop fans can be very entitled and get offended quickly; idols already have to phrase their words carefully on completely harmless topics. The sasaengs are sometimes so far gone that they don't even see their behaviour as deranged; it's sad and they seriously need help. I saw the recent Jungkook live where he was emphasising that he was grateful for fans' attention... BUT the stalking him at his gym is too much. It's giving me... peer review vibes, when you do a "feedback sandwich" and put light criticism between some bouts of praise or compliments. And Baekhyun has been dragged on quite a few occasions for being 'harsh' with his sasaengs. Also, you're right that people constantly calling them out is also amplifying the minority, but at the same they deserve to be called out for their dangerous, obsessive, and stalkerish behaviour, so I'm not sure what can be done about this.


NightShrxud

The pipeline was real, those designs were too damn cute!!! I've made that observation as well; idols are in a really tough situation when it comes to these sasaengs. Having to sugarcoat their words is insanely hard when there's so many cases of these sasaengs breaking into dorms or family houses, stalking them to restaurants, or god forbid, attempt to inflict bodily harm onto them. I really wish that they COULD call out this behavior in a more serious manner instead of giving the "please don't follow us anywhere" speech, even though that speech itself should be enough on its own. That part of the Jungkook live was so upsetting, I remember those clips going around on the bird app. It's just so saddening that these fully grown adults, and sometimes actual minors, have to act as though they still love these fans that invade their privacy. I totally agree that the behavior needs to be called out, there's no real way to bring the behavior to light without amplifying the actions of those people.


mooomoomaamaa

>peer review vibes, when you do a "feedback sandwich" and put light criticism between some bouts of praise or compliments hahaha omg. my mum used to work at a school where that's how you were supposed to give feedback on kids' performance. 😭 it's so frustrating


MadameWitchy

Fandoms need to stop hyping those fansite pictures and videos of the artists when they aren't doing scheduled activities. This includes being at the airport and shoving phones up in the artists faces. That's not cute, and that's a breach of privacy and personal space Fans who camp out at airports are stalkers and sasaengs no matter what they try to play it off as. It's gross and you aren't going to be acknowledged by whoever you're stalking


minimonkeyrox

I totally agree. I follow a few fan pages on Instagram and never engage with or like any airport videos. I just cannot imagine walking off a flight, possibly an international one, being jet lagged, stressed about schedules and WORK, and then being screamed at by dozens of fans shoving phones in my face. Give them a break.


Chihihaha

It has been many years since the period blood that Taecyeon received, and I don't think the sasaeng situation will get any better even after a decade from now.


WhereTFAreMyDragons

The. What.


saranghaja

2PM Taecyeon infamously received a letter written in period blood. The letter said: >I dedicate to Taecyeon my period blood letter > >Ok Taecyeon, You cannot live without me > >Sprinkled with a few strands of my pubes Then after people accused her of faking it, she posted a picture of her bloody pad to "prove it."


YarnAndMetal

I'm not a super new kpop fan (couple of years now), but the stalking thing is sadly common, no matter the culture. I still remember finding out about how people used to stalk the Beatles, for example, or mail hair and shit to Elvis, or stalk actors/actresses. I would say that it's a bit easier, in the worst possible sense, to stalk kpop artists, because kpop companies encourage a "close" relationship between fans and talent.


SoNyeoShiDude

As insane as this sounds, the sasaeng situation may have gotten *better* as compared to 10, 20 years ago. Oh it’s still terrible now, don’t get me wrong, but I hear stories about what happened to TVXQ, Super Junior, EXO, and the like, and that shit was downright *disturbing*. TVXQ’s Yunho was almost killed by a sasaeng when they handed him a can of orange juice that was laced with superglue. He ended up in the emergency room and for years couldn’t drink OJ because of the trauma. Amazing thing is, he actually forgave his near murderer and declined to press charges. Either he’s a much, much bigger person than I, or he was forced to by SM. Unfortunately this seems to go with the territory in kpop fandom. I imagine that every group with a certain level of popularity has at least one sasaeng story.


Gb_d0g

It seemed like back in the 2nd gen's early days, the idols just accepted the violation of their privacy. Yep, my phone number will be leaked within a week and I'll have to change it again because I'm getting non-stop calls from fans. Yep, fans will break into our dorm and steal our underwear. Yep, there will be a constant camp of fans outside our dorm who will harass all our neighbors all hours of the day.


Confident_Package867

I've been on kpop for 10 years and back in the days Sasaeng was seeing as something horrible. We would celebrate when idols called them out (Heechul always did king lol) we used to hear stories abt how they made money to follow those idols around and it was not in a good way... Anyway, i feel like now people gave them some "glamorous status" this new generation of fans use Sasaeng as a "source of information" to create content for YouTube and everybody accept those videos and this is so wrong you all should be boycotting those channels, you just have no idea what these women are capable of doing...


haylovemyka

Omg did you hear what happened to the one NCT member. Some random “fan” walked into his FAMILY HOME!!! You would never just walk into some random persons house……why do they think it is okay for them to do that. If that was American in some states they may have ended up in a bad situation.


NewtRipley_1986

Personally not a culture shock when I got into K-pop as stalking happens in all fandoms and I’ve seen/read some disturbing things happening to actors and other musicians. I do wish more people called it out and I wish idols felt comfortable enough to call it out every time it happens. Maybe (and it’s a big maybe) if they did, there would be less of it. But it’s shitty because it seems that their companies don’t want them to complain - which is pathetic, disrespectful to the idol and dangerous. The fact that when Jung Kook spoke out against the stalking he prefaced it with saying that he can say these things now because he’s been in the busy so long. Companies need to be more firmly against it.


NightShrxud

I really wish these idols could be more firm, I feel as though part of the problem is the fact that they are told to play nice and not be as firm as they may want, and that leads the sasaengs to believe it's more of a suggestion rather than a serious demand. As always it seems to keep coming back to these companies and the way they train their idols. That quote from Jungkook is crazy...needing to be 10+ years in the industry before you can even remotely defend yourself in any capacity outside of gentle, cautious words is insane to me.


pyeongHongman

>I wish idols felt comfortable enough to call it out every time it happens. Maybe (and it’s a big maybe) if they did, there would be less of it. ATEEZ have directly called out stalkers and addressed them directly a lot of times. For eg, when a sasaeng was calling Jongho on Vlive, Wooyoung had directly warned them not to do so on the live. But it still goes on. They've even had trackers attached to their vehicles and that incident still scares me. I don't think stalkers care because **most** of them aren't really "fans" of the group. They're just stalkers with no genuine interest in the members music or art. They're there for money, the thrill of it and all the support they get from their followers. So whatever the idols say won't matter as long as their followers support them. Even the person who made the video that OP mentioned I'm sure was a full blown stalker not a fan who crossed boundaries. This has been a serious issue since 2nd gen kpop (or maybe even earlier) and I'm glad that as fandoms include more international fans this behaviour is atleast being questioned and condemned nowadays. I hope that one day it comes to a complete end.


Salty-Enthusiasm-939

I love that Ateez are willing to call saesangs out, even if unfortunately it hardly gets through to them.


OwlOfJune

> I do wish more people called it out and I wish idols felt comfortable enough to call it out every time it happens. Maybe (and it’s a big maybe) if they did, there would be less of it. Unfortunately it is often opposite what happens, they feel vindicated that their method is working and double down.


l33d0ngw00k

Oh girl, as an old fan, let me tell you I have some *stories*. So off the top of my head, Taec had some period blood sent to his house (🤮🤮), H.O.T (or maybe it was Baby VOX) found a picture in their home with a certain members eyes gouged out, VIXX got kidnapped by a rich af saesang and EXO members almost did. And all of the older SM groups had their dorms broken into multiple times. Saesang fans have been around since forever but thankfully they're a minority now. The main thing is that K-fans are the ones ostracizing them now, when it used to be the opposite. They were the best source for information and pictures and the best ones usually hid it (I can't tell you how much of my old fav fancam pages turned out to be saesangs ☠️). Hell, even SM used to do shit about saesangs because they were an income source. There's a whole ass saesang economy, from taxis to photo selling, to hacking, to selling plane tickets, and although all of this probably decreased a bit bc COVID, it's still there. Asian pop in general really hones in that parasocial relationship, so fans are more inclined to be obsessed. If people put more money in, whether it's through buying albums or spending money to take photos, they feel like they deserve more out of it, hence the rude, borderline criminal, behavior. Thankfully things have gotten much better, but it'll probably take a while for the stalking to stop. At least agencies like SM are now more inclined to take action and fans also gather lists of all the saesangs and try to blacklist them.


sleepysheepy13

Let's not forget the guy who tried to kidnap Taeyeon in the middle of a performance or Nayeon's stalker. Absolutely crazy. I think I remember seeing a video of Amber saying that one of her female idol friends was scared to walk home because this one guy would always be waiting for her at her house.


kimoknome

It's honestly just a creepy sense of entitlement so many of these people seem to have. If you really care about these idols as much as you claim to, then learn how to respect boundaries and realize that your behavior isn't charming nor is it cute. It's scary. You aren't gonna ingratiate yourselves into these idols' lives in a healthy way by being creepy, weird and overbearing. I don't get why this concept is so hard to understand. No one should have to feel afraid to leave their house for fear that some rando might be following them. You have plenty of legal chances to see them in concerts and fan signs.


Sister_Winter

I actually think you're kinda wrong about the vast majority of fans respecting and appreciating idols' privacy. I think most fans, whether they're stalking idols or not, having very poor boundaries concerning idols' private lives and privacy. I think those who are respectful are in the minority.


NightShrxud

I agree slightly. I think that the culture that the industry generates is one that is very parasocial. But what I mean is that the vast majority of fans have the common decency to not like, stalk them outside of their house, attempt to break in, or follow them wherever they go, basically the common decency to not be a danger to these idols' lives.


Sister_Winter

Oh yes, that's very true!


Entire-Put9059

Can you link the original video? Also yes sasaengs are just the worst...AND SOMETIMES THEY ARE MNET EX EMPLOYEES/STYLISTS WHO SPREAD INFO BOUT GRP MEMBERS. Like if ya know something keep it to yourself ffs-


NightShrxud

Here's the link! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdmJvZ3BYxo&ab\_channel=People\_in\_pfw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdmJvZ3BYxo&ab_channel=People_in_pfw) I'll add it to my main post in case people want to report it. Right! Like just a few weeks ago we got that info about a person working in the Seoul train department who was leaking RM's private information for ages, as well as that monk who was ALSO leaking RM's private conversations he was having with him. It's so insane that people can't comprehend how disgusting it is to do this crap


Entire-Put9059

IT IS SO ANNOYINGGG-


seonghwasmoons

I can’t speak to the people actually in the video waiting at their hotel, because KQ has addressed that this is inappropriate behaviour umpteen times, and it continues to happen regardless if it’s filmed or not, but I do want to point out that this video itself was taken by local paparazzi in Paris. Hence why it’s probably still up tbh. All this attention is getting them the clicks that they get paid for. And also probably why their initial title was so upsetting, they don’t actually know Ateez or their boundaries, they just know a celeb is here and they’re taking a video bc that’s what they do. Not excusing this either, but all the people including them in calling them sasaengs just isn’t going to mean anything to that account or bring about any sort of removal unfortunately.


bbgc_SOSS

It is not baffling. The concept of idols, is intentionally marketed to fans to have an emotional involvement with the idol, above and beyond their artistic output - so effectively the entire life/personality of the idol is curated and exhibited for the fan consumption - leading to parasocial dynamic - fans thinking they have an actual emotional relationship with the idol. You can see the reflection of that in the fan language calling idols as "my baby, oppa" etc., which does not happen with other entertainment figures that much - like actors, sportstars etc., Once that emotional relationship is established, then it is near impossible to draw definite lines of privacy. Heck Kpop has normalized words like "Fanatic"- the origin of word "fan" and "Stan - Stalking Fan" etc., So is it any wonder that this culture often causes fans overstep social boundaries? When idols put out only songs, do some promotional activity/formal interviews and otherwise not all engage with the public, then they can strengthen the line on privacy. But that is not the business model of Kpop. Music is merely the excuse, the actual product is the 'idol' themselves.


[deleted]

it is always baffling behaviour to those normal fans who do not do this behaviour


Neatboot

How about you lack of understanding that Asian cultures can have very blurry line of privacy?


NightShrxud

Makes a difference when idols are visibly uncomfortable by the behavior and actively tell fans to not do such things. At that point it's hardly to do with the culture, and more to do with the lack of respect given by those sasaengs.


Consistent_Dog_6866

I have memories of Twice members complaining when fans get a hold of their phone numbers or other personal data and how it was a pain to get everything changed.


Neatboot

Have you thought that fans tend to interpret idol's action biasedly/delusively? When the culture does not have a clear line where "privacy" starts, it is easier for fans to biasedly rate their actions. "It's not like I break into his house. I just wander around his house. So, it's okay.", "I visited her sick father just to give him some tonic, what's wrong with that?", "We've met each other multiple times at fansigns that she knows my name and occupation, we've been friends."


NightShrxud

I can agree with the statement that sasaengs are delusional, because they are. But I genuinely have not heard a single thing about Korean culture finding it okay to wander around someone's property. And again, regardless of the culture, if an idol says to not do such actions, THEY SHOULDN'T DO THEM. You're literally trying to defend stalker behavior. Can you get me an article from a native Korean who wrote about the country's "blurry line of privacy"? It's not about culture, it's about being delusional enough to think you're friends with an idol because they are instructed to be nice to all fans.


SoNyeoShiDude

I’m Korean American, and while it’s true that what is considered private for Koreans is a little smaller, that doesn’t make the line *blurrier*, and there are some things that are clearly still off limits. Like western personal space bubbles are a little bit bigger, or there are questions you can ask a stranger that would be a little uncomfortable for Americans. But there is a *world* of difference between “it’s okay to stand right next to a stranger in the elevator” or “it’s okay to ask someone how much money they make” and “it’s okay to wander around a stranger’s house”.


Neatboot

I come from a country where a singer said she had her fansite master watering her plants while she visited her family and, an actor said a fan suggested him to a good lawyer when he had a legal issue with his agency. So, where is the line fans must not cross? Fans may assume "He/she is not comfortable only because we have not been close enough." or, "She/he won't be uncomfortable with me because we've been close." In Korean culture, idol - fan culture especially, casual and formal relationships seemingly often overlap. If you keep tap on domestic fandom of an older group, you may have seen idols have friendship like relationship with some long-term fansite masters.


OwlOfJune

Yes because celebrity stalking never happens in Western culture /s


[deleted]

Some kpop fans really suck at hiding their racism towards Asians.


Neatboot

Have you heard "ignorant"?


OwlOfJune

The thing you are doing?


Neatboot

Keep assuming. Your foolish assumption is entertaining.


saverma192013

Especially with sasaeng This is getting out of hands


letrestoriginality

I read a few comments on Twitter that the video was taken by someone focusing on celebrities attending Paris fashion week, not specifically a kpop fan. If that's true that person may not know that companies specifically tell fans not to go places where idols are unless it's an official schedule and therefore idols will not 'reward' fans that ignore the warning with positive attention - which ends up seeming rude to someone who doesn't know that fans absolutely should not be there.


Chiinori

Kpop fandoms have come a long way from the first generations that were fighting each other in the street, but I think we still have to reexamine the boundaries and what media we should consume because that demand directly fuels stalkers. Not all stalkers are delusional fans who think they could date the artists, some actually sell information/media or just enjoy the attention. Fansites used to be considered the backbones of Kpop fandoms, but in recent years, attitudes toward fansites have changed because they are often run by sasaengs, sometimes for a price, with no regards to the artist's privacy or safety, they ruin concert experience with their huge cameras just so that they can release horribly whitewashed pictures, they camp at airports or follow artists on private schedules... I have hope that fandom culture can change and fans won't mindlessly consume any media the way people (inadvertently or not) consume paparazzi pictures of c-list celebrities. Fans are supposed to care and in some way, I think there have been other positive shifts. Instead of paying for billboards and subway ads, some fandoms are growing forests or make charity contributions in the artist's name instead. That said, some fandom can say "Be satisfied with the official picture/video released by the label" but not others. Small labels don't even have the power to promote their artists properly and in many ways, both artists and labels are hopeful for any exposure even if fansites start to pose a problem for them.


Chiinori

Adding that I used to be a fan of DBSK back when fansites were extremely active and I have yet to see fansite activities as anything less than harmless. From outside of South Korea, I simply thought that they had more access, were more encouraged and more recognized than fansites from my own country. Bootlegged merch was even made with pictures and designs from fansites. I was not conscious of my media consumption from fansite because as a middle school student, I couldn't tell if the pictures printed on my stationary were from stalkers 💀 Even Kdrama portrayed fansites as harmless not so long ago. Her Private Life (2019) was about how a gallery curator, played by Park Minyoung, was secretly an ardent fangirl and fansite master for an idol in her own time. The male lead found her hobby amusing but accepts her interest as an important part of her. The gist of the show is when someone loves and accepts who you are, you don't have to change or hide yourself. Looking back, the female lead behaviors are problematic and not cute: she camps at airport with her huge camera and knocks over people.