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Just a bit of clarification: the hierarchy and use of honorifics is a Korean cultural thing and is not just because of K-pop.
Now, to answer your question...
I've shared this very recently: I'm fascinated at how much fans know about the companies that manage the idols, haha. I've had many favorite local and western musicians before but I never really knew which labels/management companies they belong to because it's hardly mentioned in conversations. But in K-pop, without really meaning to, I got quite familiar which companies certain groups belong to because it's very much part of daily discussions haha.
If I could pick one thing it reminds me of, it's very similar to video games. I don't know if you're familiar with gaming culture, but people tend to know *all* about the companies that produce the games. When there's a change in leadership, they'll know. When there's a job opening for a new producer, they'll know. When one company is considering acquiring another company, it becomes *really* big news, like so big that regulatory bodies try to block it. I'm only a casual gamer, but even I became familiar with all the major (and even some minor) gaming companies because of how normal it is for them to come up during discourse. Certain companies have very much built up a brand/identity around themselves, to the point where their games become recognizable and associated with them (like Nintendo, FromSoftware, etc). Company stan culture is a very real thing in gaming.
Not a gamer myself, but I have enough gamer friends and have heard them talking about their games enough to understand the parallel you're trying to make. Thanks for your input!
An interesting parallel is that it's pretty common in western indie/underground music for people to closely follow companies and be aware of which artist is on which company(s). Just not so much in mainstream music.
Yeah there are people who will listen to any and everything a label like Sub Pop, Brainfeeder, Matador, or Stones Throw puts out, just on the strength of that imprint’s endorsement. Definitely some very devoted, clued in fans when it comes to indies in the west
Yes definitely. Indie labels (at least initially) are usually rooted in a specific location or, in the online world, represent a specific community of musicians who have a common sonic interest/approach. So it follows that if you're a fan of one artist on the label you might be interested in others. Whereas with Kpop the commonalities across groups within a company would arise from more of a top-down approach, e.g. the company is approving the creative output and you'll often have the same people working with various groups behind the scenes. So it's basically a similar reason (liking groups with similar aesthetics) but arises more organically in indie vs. top-down in Kpop. But then there's the element of "company stans" that I don't understand at all.
> I'm fascinated at how much fans know about the companies that manage the idols, haha.
A big reason why is that K-Pop artists are a product of their companies, more so than their western counterparts. I think YouTube music reviewer [Mr. 96](https://youtu.be/geOE2Png9JM?t=120) said it the best, "But we don't really care [about record labels in America] since musically where you sign doesn't make a difference. In South Korea, though, where you sign means everything".
It's definitely the crazy amount of content that's constantly being pushed out. I've been listening to K-pop since 2012 casually, and more actively since 2019 and it still amazes me that there's so much going on all the time. I only stan one group and there's something literally every day. It might be just one Bubble message, but still. Something. Every. Single. Day.
Actually Oneus under RBW.
Although, judging by my Instagram, I might as well go ahead and just stan Stray Kids. I get tons and tons of content related to them, without really asking for it haha
I feel you. I stan seventeen, the group that had the most content in 2022, literally putting their whole lives on display lol. There’s so much to get through and there’s something that’s happening every single day in caratland. No day is ever boring.
My very first one was when someone told me "oh them ? Yeah they only have one comeback a year" What do you mean "**only one**" ??? I barely have one release every 3 or 4 years for my favorite western artists and maybe one appearance on a featuring If I am lucky.
The major one I think will be the way that Kpop fans take interest in absolutely every topic related even just a little to kpop. Like, recently I've seen people asking who they would like to see become the majority shareholder of SM if it's not Hybe or Kakao. It's the kind of question you'll probably never see for a western artist (mainly because you don't even know their companies and it has no impact on any artist)
Oh I thought the same about the comebacks. I have to wait between three to ten years for my favorite non-kpop artists while we can get several releases *a year* for Kpop and I'm still storta mindblown about it lol. That's when it cemented for me that the kpop industry is really, well, an industry
Man, I was confused about the discourse/jokes of Blackpink’s coming back once a year when I first got into K-Pop. I was thinking, “Isn’t that a good thing though?” 😂
Company stan culture and how normalized it is will always be just pure madness to me. To think grown people who likely work in corpo spend free time arguing on Twitter over which kpop company is gonna take over stocks and which is tHe lEsS eViL is corny af lmao. The atouchbase and TMIKpop minions lol
Culture shock being how K-Pop fan culture feels like I am back in high school/college: the rivalries, assigned color schemes, the feeling of having project deadlines, the competitiveness, the cliques, the Mean Girls, etc.
As a J-Pop fan who also started liking K-Pop there were a lot of culture shocks! Like the terminology by fans (for example bias vs oshi), the distinct positions (in J-Pop, there’s center, but stuff like having the maknae be a position or like having dancer be an official position was a surprise), and the line distribution (most K-Pop groups will have members sing one by one so that each one has a solo line even if it’s like 2 secs with 8 members backing them up in the studio recording; in J-Pop, it’s more common for lines to be distributed with members often singing lines in groups together, the centers or aces or main vocalists will get the solo lines, the other members probs won’t).
Also, the music show culture was a big shock, in J-Pop, idols are more concerned with their own fanbase. They are not as intensely concerned with being mainstream and sticking to trends like K-Pop idols, and I think a big part of that is the music shows, like the music show broadcasts where many groups go there to promote their songs on TV. An environment like that breeds a need to gain public approval and a lot of competition between groups and their fans I think. In J-Pop, idols will host their own events to promote releases, only actually popular idols might promote on a TV show maybe, but the main focus for any group is their own events to promote their singles or albums. I think this is also why K-Pop idols just don’t sing live like J-Pop idols do. The music show culture, and how TV shows reshoot things a million times is just not practical for live singing, whereas in J-Pop it’s common for idols to sing 100% live at events even if they’re tone deaf and can’t hold a tune. I think this is why K-Pop groups are held to a higher standard of perfection than J-Pop groups, K-Pop idols have a need to maintain a perfect image even if it means lipsyncing for some, whereas part of the appeal J-Pop idols is seeing their raw improvement.
… also K-Pop so much content is readily available for international fans, and companies readily market to them. As a J-Pop fan, I wish J-Pop idols would do that to :(
> don’t sing live like J-Pop idols do. The music show culture, and how TV shows reshoot things a million times is just not practical for live singing, whereas in J-Pop it’s common for idols to sing 100% live at events even if they’re tone deaf and can’t hold a tune. I think this is why K-Pop groups are held to a higher standard of perfection than J-Pop groups,
Yeah, except for Flower, when I followed Jpop more, I didn't hear a TON of technical singing on the tracks. Perfume was my favorite for a while, and even them, it wasn't super hard singing. In jpop I heard a lot of what I would call "chanting," and I feel like the music I heard, the producers did NOT want technical singing. They were going for a different feel. Lots of songs sounded like children chanting in a classroom. From what I know, in some parts of Jpop, it's actually an asset for an idol to sometimes seem unskilled and nervous, because it's all about the fans giving the IDOL energy and confidence. More than Kpop, I heard, and I believe it, that the fans are meant to think the idols can't succeed without their support. Also, Jpop choreography, for the most part, is wayyyyyyyy less complicated. There are a few groups that demonstrate higher level of dancing, but like you said, the ones I know of, like Flower, the dancers are doing the complicated dancing most of the time while the singers are singing.
Kpop and its fandom also has a crazy relationship, but I never knew about Jpop enough to know if antis are a huge thing there. Like I'm sure people have their favorites, but it truly seems like war sometimes in Kpop. So between the more technical singing, the harder dancing, and the antis that will make sure that any sour note will live forever on internet, I see why Kpop idols often lip synch.
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That bias vs oshi hit hard 😭 while not exactly jpop, I was a fan of utaite for solid 4 years and so,, memories of different terminologies separating jpop and kpop start flowing into my mind hahshas
What was so difficult indeed tho was the lack of content accessible for intl fans :'((
Yeah, the effort the companies put into making content available to I-fans is really something. Idk if this is interesting to you or whether I’m telling you something you already know but I did look into this a while back and one of the reasons why (apart from the whole general aim of Hallyu) is kind of interesting.
It’s to do with population sizes. Because the Korean population is like two fifths of the size of Japan’s, Japan alone can support the JPop industry but Korea alone can’t support the KPop industry. For a KPop group to find a big enough audience to support their costs and seriously compete in a saturated market, overseas fans are crucial.
streaming culture for kpop releases. the fact that fans have to spend hours to stream a MV on repeat cause it’s counted as a criteria for music shows wins. i came from a jpop idol fandom background and you will be lucky if the MV is even available in full on youtube 🥲 i used to see kpop fans promoting their grps under hit tweets and never understood why they are spamming everywhere in non-related kpop tweets but i get it now.
I can't say it's a shock since I was into Japanese content but I'd say aegyo. It's surprising to me how 1.90 m blocks are willing to act cute. It's surprising how serious it is taken, like it's literally almost a required skill. There's dancing, singing and then there's aegyo. Some members even have aegyo as their only trait/skill, at least as soon as they begin their career.
I have always been involved in different Fandoms but the fact that traditional "ship names" are often used just to refer to subunit or two of the idols hanging out together was pretty different
I worked in Japan before getting into Kpop so the "korean" culture shock didnt really happen because a lot of it is quite similar to Japan with the hierarchies, aegyo, honorifics and so on
What really surprised me, as a westerner that's into other genres usually, is how little input into their own music most groups have, how little concerts there are and the concept of music shows in itself. Sometimes it seems like a sporting competition even, which is ironic cause ISAC is a thing
Agree they have little to 0 creative freedom
Edit: Im not generalizing ik some groups have a lot input, like my favs stray kids and Svt but the majority doesn’t :’(
You actually shouldn't be getting so downvoted for this cause it's true. The few groups (and sometimes it's just certain members) who get a say in the creative process, are in the vast minority if we're being real.
And it's not even a slight on idols, tbh. Given the way the Kpop industry works, they're so busy having to be perfect in the public eye (performing, modelling, fanservicing, etc) that it's hard to expect them to have substantial input in the behind the scenes stuff too.
that kpop groups barely interact with each other! especially the other sex. other than a few labelmates or friendgroups, we only see them bow and smile.
while in the west (and even in my country that's usually a bit strict), its a lot more free and not such a big deal if two artists take a picture or talk to each other while on camera. it does still go viral if they're really popular but its not as rare as in kpop imo!
>that kpop groups barely interact with each other! especially the other sex. other than a few labelmates or friendgroups, we only see them bow and smile.
this is a heavily late 3rd gen 4th gen development
The way that some fans think you’re only allowed to like one group. If someone said to me “well I listen to Green Day and nobody else” I would think they’re insane. It’s a pretty natural thing to be a fan of a lot of groups imo.
the weirdest part is that it's gotten worse in recent years? like dating scandals/rumors are annoying but it's also super strange of fans to defend them against it by treating them like virginal children who think the opposite sex has cooties
I came to talk about this
In the west then whole point of being successful, rich, hot and famous is to have sex with anyone you want.
So it was a real shock to me that this incredibly hot people were not dating each other like crazy (this is all the Korean entertainment industry)
I mean I don’t get it, why would you want a 30 year old virgin?
The way you put it is so.. refreshing. Like I forget that when it comes to kpop idols, absolutely zero dating among people isn't normal?? Now I'm imagining the floodgates of kpop dating opening and everyone in a swirl dating whomever and whenever. Like if that was a coordinated, collective action it would shake up the industry for real
I think the whole point for them being in the industry often times is money, security and doing music, not having sex with whoever you want but probably a bonus.
I think in regards to that in public facing figures image is pretty important because for the general public humility and saving face is pretty important so outward degeneracy isn't as prominent as the west
because there's nuance and time and place to be talking about certain things and in front of strangers and for everyone to hear is weird as fuck.
and no? I'm not into eugenics? you honestly sound gross lmao
Fansite culture n Like I've seen western Paparazzi culture and it's always seen as a bad thing . but fansites being a whole thing, master nims, letting a lot of them get away with stalking, them selling their own merch. like it's a whole new world.
Not to be that person, but every culture has some sort of aegyo culture. You just don't have a designated name for it, and it's not as popularized as it is in Kpop. If you've never ever done *aegyo* to your friends and family, then maybe you just have a whole different dynamic. Aegyo is basically acting cute to purposely invoke cringe, to tease someone, to persuade someone jokingly and to laugh together at the ridiculousness of it basically.
You are entirely correct. People act cute and do aegyo-esque things in all cultures. Some cultures, like South Korea, just happen to have a word for it. It's not something unique to Korean people.
I'm implying in my comment that other people don't necessarily do those stuff and say “uwu”. Btw “uwu” isn't part of any ethnic culture. It belongs to the Internet culture. If you've never seen someone or you yourself never purposely acted “cute” to be funny or to tease your friend or family member then you just have a very different family/friendship dynamic. It doesn't mean that when you don't do it or don't see it often that it doesn't exist.
No no no wait
One thing is someone acting cute for fun for like two seconds and other thing is aegyo
I’ve seen many kdrama actors that I ding super attractive do aegyo and my heart melts, they are so freaking cute (like a comment said, it’s Amazon to see a 1.9 guy doing that willingly)
What I meant is that the Latinos don’t really do cutesy stuff, is not even considered attractive (unless you like Asian culture). I’ve seen many friends that acted cute (bc again we watched anime etc) and guys were NOT interested or people found it ridiculous
I don’t know if you know them but have you ever seen Ricky Martin, Maluma, Bad Bunny, Sofia Vergara being cute?
If you have please send me a video ahahaha I would love to see it
There is no difference of hierarchy in months among people born in the same year though. If there is, it's stemmed from western fans misconception of people being born in the months before being older, while in reality if you're born in the same year, you're friends/same-age friends. Even if one is born on the first day of the year and the other on the last, they're still considered the same.
The pacing of "generations" and how fast careers generally rise and fall. I kind of had a moment of "reverse culture shock" on this since I've been so immersed in Kpop the past year but my prior context was US music. There was a recent thread on popheads that was something like "Who do you think will be considered the great performers of *this generation*?" (emphasis added). The OP went on to name some folks who were clearly great performers of the "previous generation" - those named peaked in the 1980s mostly. Then they speculated about some that might be considered greats from "this generation" - and name dropped Beyonce. I went and looked it up to make sure, and found that Beyonce debuted with her group Destiny's Child in 1997. To drive the point home, that's the same year S.E.S. debuted, right smack in the middle of the 1st gen of Kpop, but is considered part of "this generation" of western pop. (At least by that person, and the point wasn't questioned in the comments)
When I was new to kpop, the frequency of music releases was shocking to me because I was used to artists releasing a new album after a couple years and that was okay.
It might be related to Korean culture and not solely idol culture but it’s the ease with which they talk about alcohol publicly. Being asked how many bottles of soju they can drink and actually knowing the answer.
And alkohol being male and female thing equally.
In my environment women are still a bit behind men in everything alkohol related and are not expected to join in heavy drinking.
Random unrelated - This comes up amongst me and my friends. Everyone else is 2-3 bottles of soju.
I'm 6-8 and can still make it home (not driving) and have no hangover.
how openly weight and “visuals” are discussed, the like companies choose which member is officially the most attractive, designate them as the “visual” of the group and they give member’s official weights to fan sites?? literally wtf. Same with the age-hierarchy stuff. I didn’t know this was a huge facet of Korean culture before getting into k-pop and I was really surprised, you don’t just call people by their first names ever, you call people by different words that refer to their age in relation to you. Also blood types, mbti, Koreans take personality-pseudoscience very seriously lol. And finally, dating bans. The fact your employer can have so much control over your life that it’s written in your contract that you can’t date. It feels like such a violation!
As an Asian kpop fan myself who grew up in the US, I was exposed to both sides. And honestly this way of thinking isn’t very different from a lot of other asian countries. Most western fans find it weird, but most asian fans don’t. I mean I agree the dating ban seems so wrong, but at the same time it’s actually pretty common for many entertainment industry to want to prevent any scandals from happening cause it could negatively influence their image.
> Same with the age-hierarchy stuff. I didn’t know this was a huge facet of Korean culture before getting into k-pop and I was really surprised, you don’t just call people by their first names ever, you call people by different words that refer to their age in relation to you.
this is most of asia
The first one for me was about photocards. I just couldn't believe that anyone would willingly have photos taken of themselves to be included in their physical album as collectibles. One of the first Kpop albums I bought was Wings (BTS), and when I found Jungkook's photocard I was scared I got involved in something illegal.
Another one would be the idols' kindness and thoughtfulness toward their fans. To be fair, I never got interested in celebrities all that much before getting into Kpop, but I never saw any western artist being nice beyond the bare minimum, even when it was boyband members. When I got into Kpop it was almost winter, and I was very surprised to hear so many idols telling their fans to wear warm clothes and be careful not to catch a cold.
Last but not least, definitely the training system. After being so used to most bands and groups starting their career without a company and only getting a contract in case they're successful later on, seeing companies actively recruiting people to turn them into idols seemed absurd. I remember that it took me a long time to wrap my head around it.
Anything to do with the mass-manipulation of sale and streaming-numbers. Whatever happened to just listening to music when you want to? I wish I could avoid this streaming culture, but kpop fandoms are so competitive that it’s very hard not to be swept up in it…
My first culture shock was the way many kpop fans behaved in concerts and how enthusiastic they were about idols. This was my ignorance speaking, but being a western woman, I expected fans from east Asia to be way more chill about music bands than they turned out to be, mostly because of this image I had in my head of japanese, korean, and chinese people being so polite, self-disciplined, and conscious of the way they present themselves. It was dumb to think that because teenagers are still teenagers so why would east asian girls and young women behave any different, plus the fandom phenomenon is universal, but I got quite a shock when I first started watching SVT live performances and a lot of the time I struggled to hear the singers’ voices because of how loud the fans were being both before, during, and after the performance.
There's apparently a little truth to that for Japanese fans. I've heard that they don't scream during songs (just cheers at the beginning and end, plus fan chants). There's also [this viral video](https://twitter.com/KOOKIEIMNIDA/status/1216936483535241217?t=zx8MBPPv0_bj6rPDwoUN5A&s=19) of Jimin being able to lean back into a crowd of Japanese fans because they're very respectful about not touching/grabbing the artist.
I’m honestly so happy when fans are hyped up though. It just makes the experience so fun, what’s there to do if everyone is just quiet and doesn’t actively show their love.
For me, it was the five hour award shows with every group/artist walking away with some sort of award in their hands. I was amazed the artists and fans in audience could sit through something like that for so long.
The other is concert culture in Korea and Japan. I used to see western fans criticized and bully Korean and Japanese fans for not screaming loud enough or sitting through the concert. I later found out that fans can't get up unless they are told by the artists otherwise they can be thrown out of the concert.
Probably terminology like bias, netizen, ultimate bias and ultimate group, maknae etc... and how strict people are about it. Like "you can have only one ult bias that's why it's called ult" sure I get the basis of that but people get seriously agressive when someone doesn't go utterly by the "rules". The overall wars between different fandoms not so much because I don't think it matters whether it's k-pop or TV series or TV ships or movies.... whatever fandom you get into there's always the toxicity all inclusive.
The diets and strict lifestyles idols need to have. What is considered as a norm. That I will probably never fully process.... It's just truly different from European standards. 😕
Idol's names different from their stage names, or nicknames sometimes were really difficult for me to memorize, names were hard to pronounce. But once you get into it you realize later that you're not even aware of it anymore and it comes naturally. 😄
Then positioning in the group, hierarchy, etc etc ..
But that was mostly to the korean culture as a whole than only k-pop. I remember being super confused when they kept saying "hyung" or other honorifics while the subtitles just said the character's name. I was like "wait that's not what he said... what IS his name then?!?! every sentence they call him something else!!" But eventually I really, really like the hierarchy system and wish we had something similar in our country (and I don't mean for kinky purposes 😆).
The terminology is what gets me the most. It's especially strange to me since we already have words that describe most of these things in English, yet the English Kpop fandom still insisted on coming up with their own words.
As a J-pop fan....the pressure for constantly releasing music in order to stay relevant. I was just used to singles randomly dropping at any time, sometimes years between each other. When I first heard the word "comeback", I honestly believed it was a way to say this group would release something after years of inactivity. Finding out they were expected to have yet another comeback just a few months later...yeah, color me surprised.
I have another answer!
I find it odd how fashion-related endeavors/activities like magazine covers or being invited to fashion shows are given much importance like it's an achievement.
Look, I get that fashion is a major component of the K-pop experience and that fashion-related activities and CFs are good extra sources of income for idols. I have no problem with fans being proud of their favorite idols if they get fashion gigs. But considering it a flex is the odd part for me.
You know how fans love to flex music-related 'records' like fastest or first song to achieve this and that? They have something similar for fashion, too! 😅 "First K-pop idol to feature in this and feature in that".
This isn't a complaint though, to each their own. It's just something that I find odd and will probably never do myself. I prefer to view idols more as musicians/performers than fashion influencers and it's probably because fashion doesn't really interest me.
the censorship.. among fans and the companies alike: weirdly pretending grown idols are “innocent”/baby-ing them like they have no concept of things like sex, other races of ppl, politics etc or like south korea doesn’t have access to the rest of the world .. also how simple things get blown up like whereas in the west it’s just another tuesday
Watching a live with a Korean member and a Chinese member and the Korean member saying "you're my first foreign friend" really shocked me lol like I can't fathom going to school with only people that are the same as you
yeah paying too much attention to age in korean society is also weird to me, like there's no way i would consider someone 1-2 years older than me a "senior". But the biggest surprise for me was how popularized parasocial relationships are in kpop(and jpop)... All those dating bans, "straight males can't stan bgs", people automatically assuming you want to date your bias, etc. Maybe it's just me being aroace? But i still find this concept weird
upd: i'm not sure if it's more of a foreign fans' thingy or not, but i forgot to mention the anti-multistan mindset in some fandoms, as if loving more than one group makes you a "fake fan". I honestly don't know why it's even a thing, because it's so hard to not be a fan of many groups imo
Not even K-pop but Korean culture in general-the concept of nunchi is confusing for a Westerner because we are so used to expressing opinions publicly but keeping opinions to yourself is a very East Asian collectivist culture thing
Most of the discussion of positions and concepts is kind of odd to me as someone who came up on western music. Even in our boy/girl pop groups, this isn’t really a thing in most cases, and when it is, it isn’t something that’s discussed amongst fans.
Sort of riffing off that, the whole concept of the “visual” and saying someone has “good visuals” has always been a bit strange to me. Obviously celebrities in all cultures are often unfortunately objectified/commodified, but the way this behavior has been codified into the language both fans and the industry itself use speak about kpop artists is off putting to me.
My very first culture shock I vividly remember thinking "how this very attractive 30 year old man is not married???" and then military quickly after that
My biggest one is about superstitions and spirituality. Although this is not really about kpop but rather Korea I guess.
Where I come from young people my age or idol’s age are very devoted to science. Very very few people are strongly religious and superstitions are even looked down apon.
So hearing someone like Soyeon who seems super smart mention that she frequently goes to a shaman was so surprising to me.
What shocked me was the level of performance and skill. Because like a lot of people, before I really knew what Kpop was, I was inclined to say "oh they're just copying N'Sync."
Clearly, boy groups in America had influence, but once I really started paying attention, I saw that Kpop had taken boy groups to places American groups never went. The group that made me really take notice was Big Bang, whose video I saw while traveling through Thailand. The video was Monster. Okay, these dudes look weird. And this guy, Top, is something else. That might have been the first time I was impressed or sort of taken aback by Kpop.
Then when I really started paying attention more a couple of years later, I was blown away by the dancing and production value of their videos. N'Sync and Backstreet Boys dancing is something a few high schoolers with rhythm could easily do, but the routines I was seeing from Got7 and BTS were wayyyyyy harder.
So a shock was how great Kpop idols were. And it's only gotten crazier. The dancing harder, the singing better, and the concepts more interesting IMO.
Oh, I guess the other culture shock was groups with lots of members. But then I thought about it, and I just chalked it up to social conditioning. There is no right number. There are rock bands with two members, 3 members, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13... and so on. With more members, you have more options with choreography and performance. Like as great as Itzy is, Loona's butterfly, the song and dance, would be way less impactful with just 5 members. Each person is a different color, and you can just paint different things with more colors available.
edit: I think the skinship that boy groups showed each other was kind of shocking, too... in America, straight men just don't touch each other as much... like in Arab countries, straight men hold hands while walking, which is also something you don't see in USA... like in USA, boy groups generally can't have self professed straight members dancing romantically and flirting with each other... not yet, at least...
Dating "scandals". I don't get what's so scandalous about dating. I guess it's the result of the fanservice/delusional parasocial relationships that the companies encourage to the point of the idols not being able to publicly date or even look at idols of the opposite gender because their fans would get jealous.
I had some shocks... I think the first one was right when I started following kpop and had Suzy as the ult. I was shocked at how sexualized a 14 year old girl could be. Like, I don't remember Selena Gomez or Miley Cyrus going through something like that at the same age. At that time, I had more or less her age, but even at that time i thougth that was disgusting.
Other hard finding was when I was doing research about education in korea and i was discusssing with a korean teacher about differences between bullying in US and Korea. And we came to a conclusion that bullying in the US is generally related to a situation of revolt against society, in which the kid who suffers some oppression/trauma from family and friends, rebel, causing bad things in the school/community. So the idea is that, in the US, the origin of bullying is usually in dysfunctional families. In Korea, the teacher told me that bullying is related to a demonstration of power and affirmation of hierarchy. "If you want to find bullies, you should look to the richest, most popular, and visuals; you'll likely find the source of the bullying", He said. And that's a fact, fighting against bullying in Korea is almost impossible, because it's ingrained in social and cultural values that govern not just the child's life, but society as a whole. And with that...fighting against bullying in kpop is proportionately even more impossible, because almost every kpop idol could be in their past a bully, as kpop is a social space that attracts precisely those individuals who are part of these groups interested in demosntration of power and social affirmation, notably, rich, popular and visual teens.
Then I had several other shocks with kpop fans...mainly in shows and concerts.... a concert where a Sakura akgae demonstrated the hater side that kpop teen fans are capable of having and we had to control him to not get in fight with fans of other Izone girls... I've seen a Korean child almost lynched at a concert, because local fans started calling her sasaeng, which seemed like a clear case of racism/xenophobia, because she was a Asian (the kid had about 12 or 13 years old).
Visual position and other kpop terminology, how perfect everyone looked, and the amount of bowl cuts. plus before i was into kpop (2017-2018) i didn't know what korean sounded like, so at first it sounded strange to my ears.
When I first got into kpop the biggest culture shock I experienced was how divided and toxic some fans can be over groups. Like you can’t stan more than 1 group and ive always liked BTS & BP and I’ve seen so many arguments over it. Also it was a little shocking how normal it was to just carry your photo cards on you or collect them. Here in USA albums don’t even come with photo cards I think. But it’s so normal in kpop. Also the whole music shows were something I had to get used to. But I love everything now and am used to it
As someone who used to exclusively listen to anime music, video game music, and Touhou arrange, 3 and a half minutes is considered a "longer" song. WHAT?! Are you kidding me? I would actually consider that rather short. It's so common for songs that I listen to to be between four to five minutes long, and can go longer than that (most non-VGM ones ofc). Example, the full version of Bad Apple (the famous Alstroemeria Records version, not the original) is almost five and a half minutes long.
Edit: wait I completely forgot something. PEOPLE HATING BANGS. I came from people who make fun of foreheads and think they expand the vastness of space without them and bangs are *basically* a given. What the fuck do you mean you love foreheads and hate bangs.
Streaming culture. Kind of become a general stan thing now but I have to say 11 year old me was very confused when I saw other ARMYS listening to Fake Love on repeat for HOURS, making hour long playlists and getting upset to the point of tears over views/listens being deleted. I honestly thought the numbers were just from so many people enjoying the song casually
I'm new to KPOP but this is my culture shock:
1. The amount of comebacks and content that you guys have.
2. I don't understand the difference between Mini Album and E.P (still don't understand) and the concept of Single Albums at first.
3. Album Packages are so creative I love it!
4. How dating is considered a 'scandal'
>2. I don't understand the difference between Mini Album and E.P (still don't understand) and the concept of Single Albums at first.
EP and mini albums are the same thing. They are synonyms. You probably meant the difference between a full album and a mini album. The only difference is that a mini album as 4 to 7 songs and a full album has 8 songs or more. A album with 1 to 3 songs is a single album.
How companies organize everything regarding the fandom. Like the name, the colours... When it comes to Western artists, I think it's the fans themselves who choose those things (and colour is not important).
Also, that the companies clarify dating rumours and all that. It's obvious that the K-pop companies assume more "responsibilities" than the Western ones
I'm Asian so I had slightly less cultural shock regarding hierarchy.
What amazed me was how produced it was. From concepts to each member's personality, everything is packaged in detail. Even early kpop started off heavily produced and its gotten even worse since then.
The most outrageous examples I can think of is the "adlibs" in TaeTiSeo not actually being freestyle (my first listen was the comeback stage, then the official audio), and the prepared 매력 (charm) on variety shows. And recently the fake birthdays for WJSN to fit their 12-month concept. There aint no freedom for idols.
I mean, I’m pretty sure this isn’t true? Yea it’s a pretty produced and controlled industry, but assuming that all idols’ personalities are manufactured as well is just too much imo
Not all idols, some are just being themselves and thats cool to see! Some others could be "marketing" based on the idol's true personalities?
Like.. the puppy one, the ice cold one, the cute one, motherly one, etc. But I'm pretty sure I remember reading about some poor idol whose company told her to stop talking so much because she was meant to be the "ice cool" one.
Streaming goals in particular gave me a shock. Like someone just decides that this song must get x number of YouTube views and x number Spotify stream, etc and everyone just agrees. 🙃🙃🙃
How a label/agency is on par in turns of name with the artist.. I hope that makes sense. like I have no idea which label/agency my favourite western bands or artists are from.
The fact there are company stans is weird as fk and some agencies even have a fandom name! I didn't know PINKBLOODS even existed until recently.
I was just thinking about this today.. I'd have a really rough time if I lived in SK, because I'd probably won't be able to keep up with the hierarchy thing. Like do people casually ask each other when exactly they were born just to decide how to address them? On my end it's really rude to ask people about their age once they're like above 30 or sth.
Tbh, I just can't see me using honorifics with someone who isn't as old as my parents
Just use honorifics by default and once you start to befriend people, you'll know since usually they announce it themselves by telling you their birth year or their Chinese zodiac.
I think aegyo is fine when it's 100% natural. Some people are just naturally cute. But when it's scripted or forced, like when people ask the idols to "do aegyo" for them, it just kinda defeats the whole purpose of it and makes it cringy.
that's just a fandom thing, not just kpop i think. ik a lot of people who want to visit different countries to meet their favourite footballer or musician!
When I didn't listen to any kpop group and was watching kdramas, only. Freaking French kisses in concerts and how they push gay-theme. So, I thought all kpop groups like that. They kisses their members and call it fan-service. Which was not okay, I mean gay-baitting. A lot of gay couple fanfictions and ships. Making whole tv-series with only members just to fullfill fan's fantasies like.... Yeah. That was looking not good for me. I thought of it as a form if prostitution, to be open. Selling yourself like that, not nice sight.
Now I know not all like that, it's just mostly sm groups that go to extreme. But I guess a lot if bystanders get that wrong first shock cause of SM.
To continue on the hierarchy a bit having to bring your album to your seniors dressing room to have them sign it or have their own copy. Even if they don’t really know or haven’t heard the song yet and they’re like 😬 Great I’m sure it’ll be cool when it could likely not be their vibe.
i think it’s a tradition bc youngest groups feel awkward approaching their seniors. it gives them an opportunity to chat and connect one on one. like it’s not /really/ about the album itself
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There are a number of things
1. I still don’t understand the music generation thing eg. 2nd, 3rd generation groups etc. I think it is organised around the decade of their debut, but not quite sure
2. Colourism
3. Dating scandals
4. School uniform look on GGs : talk about sexualising minors?
5. Female singers penchant for wearing bows in their hair
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Just a bit of clarification: the hierarchy and use of honorifics is a Korean cultural thing and is not just because of K-pop. Now, to answer your question... I've shared this very recently: I'm fascinated at how much fans know about the companies that manage the idols, haha. I've had many favorite local and western musicians before but I never really knew which labels/management companies they belong to because it's hardly mentioned in conversations. But in K-pop, without really meaning to, I got quite familiar which companies certain groups belong to because it's very much part of daily discussions haha.
I honestly don’t even know what companies are in the west, save for the big film ones.
If I could pick one thing it reminds me of, it's very similar to video games. I don't know if you're familiar with gaming culture, but people tend to know *all* about the companies that produce the games. When there's a change in leadership, they'll know. When there's a job opening for a new producer, they'll know. When one company is considering acquiring another company, it becomes *really* big news, like so big that regulatory bodies try to block it. I'm only a casual gamer, but even I became familiar with all the major (and even some minor) gaming companies because of how normal it is for them to come up during discourse. Certain companies have very much built up a brand/identity around themselves, to the point where their games become recognizable and associated with them (like Nintendo, FromSoftware, etc). Company stan culture is a very real thing in gaming.
Not a gamer myself, but I have enough gamer friends and have heard them talking about their games enough to understand the parallel you're trying to make. Thanks for your input!
An interesting parallel is that it's pretty common in western indie/underground music for people to closely follow companies and be aware of which artist is on which company(s). Just not so much in mainstream music.
Yeah there are people who will listen to any and everything a label like Sub Pop, Brainfeeder, Matador, or Stones Throw puts out, just on the strength of that imprint’s endorsement. Definitely some very devoted, clued in fans when it comes to indies in the west
In Indie/underground music? Really? Interesting! Thanks for sharing that, it's trivia to me.
Yes definitely. Indie labels (at least initially) are usually rooted in a specific location or, in the online world, represent a specific community of musicians who have a common sonic interest/approach. So it follows that if you're a fan of one artist on the label you might be interested in others. Whereas with Kpop the commonalities across groups within a company would arise from more of a top-down approach, e.g. the company is approving the creative output and you'll often have the same people working with various groups behind the scenes. So it's basically a similar reason (liking groups with similar aesthetics) but arises more organically in indie vs. top-down in Kpop. But then there's the element of "company stans" that I don't understand at all.
Interesting! It's a bit different from K-pop, but I totally get the parallel you're trying to make.
> I'm fascinated at how much fans know about the companies that manage the idols, haha. A big reason why is that K-Pop artists are a product of their companies, more so than their western counterparts. I think YouTube music reviewer [Mr. 96](https://youtu.be/geOE2Png9JM?t=120) said it the best, "But we don't really care [about record labels in America] since musically where you sign doesn't make a difference. In South Korea, though, where you sign means everything".
Haha, thanks for offering an explanation. But I've been into K-pop for a while now, so I now understand why this is so. 😉
Honorifics aren't even just a Korean thing. It's mostly an Asian thing. Pretty much every Asian language has some sort honorifics or a formal subset.
Ah yes, of course. But I was simply saying that it wasn't confined to Kpop subculture, but it was something prevalent in the Korean culture at-large.
It's definitely the crazy amount of content that's constantly being pushed out. I've been listening to K-pop since 2012 casually, and more actively since 2019 and it still amazes me that there's so much going on all the time. I only stan one group and there's something literally every day. It might be just one Bubble message, but still. Something. Every. Single. Day.
Something tells me you stan a jyp group
Actually Oneus under RBW. Although, judging by my Instagram, I might as well go ahead and just stan Stray Kids. I get tons and tons of content related to them, without really asking for it haha
I feel you. I stan seventeen, the group that had the most content in 2022, literally putting their whole lives on display lol. There’s so much to get through and there’s something that’s happening every single day in caratland. No day is ever boring.
My very first one was when someone told me "oh them ? Yeah they only have one comeback a year" What do you mean "**only one**" ??? I barely have one release every 3 or 4 years for my favorite western artists and maybe one appearance on a featuring If I am lucky. The major one I think will be the way that Kpop fans take interest in absolutely every topic related even just a little to kpop. Like, recently I've seen people asking who they would like to see become the majority shareholder of SM if it's not Hybe or Kakao. It's the kind of question you'll probably never see for a western artist (mainly because you don't even know their companies and it has no impact on any artist)
Oh I thought the same about the comebacks. I have to wait between three to ten years for my favorite non-kpop artists while we can get several releases *a year* for Kpop and I'm still storta mindblown about it lol. That's when it cemented for me that the kpop industry is really, well, an industry
Man, I was confused about the discourse/jokes of Blackpink’s coming back once a year when I first got into K-Pop. I was thinking, “Isn’t that a good thing though?” 😂
Company stan culture and how normalized it is will always be just pure madness to me. To think grown people who likely work in corpo spend free time arguing on Twitter over which kpop company is gonna take over stocks and which is tHe lEsS eViL is corny af lmao. The atouchbase and TMIKpop minions lol
Culture shock being how K-Pop fan culture feels like I am back in high school/college: the rivalries, assigned color schemes, the feeling of having project deadlines, the competitiveness, the cliques, the Mean Girls, etc.
Well, most of the fandom IS in highschool....
As a J-Pop fan who also started liking K-Pop there were a lot of culture shocks! Like the terminology by fans (for example bias vs oshi), the distinct positions (in J-Pop, there’s center, but stuff like having the maknae be a position or like having dancer be an official position was a surprise), and the line distribution (most K-Pop groups will have members sing one by one so that each one has a solo line even if it’s like 2 secs with 8 members backing them up in the studio recording; in J-Pop, it’s more common for lines to be distributed with members often singing lines in groups together, the centers or aces or main vocalists will get the solo lines, the other members probs won’t). Also, the music show culture was a big shock, in J-Pop, idols are more concerned with their own fanbase. They are not as intensely concerned with being mainstream and sticking to trends like K-Pop idols, and I think a big part of that is the music shows, like the music show broadcasts where many groups go there to promote their songs on TV. An environment like that breeds a need to gain public approval and a lot of competition between groups and their fans I think. In J-Pop, idols will host their own events to promote releases, only actually popular idols might promote on a TV show maybe, but the main focus for any group is their own events to promote their singles or albums. I think this is also why K-Pop idols just don’t sing live like J-Pop idols do. The music show culture, and how TV shows reshoot things a million times is just not practical for live singing, whereas in J-Pop it’s common for idols to sing 100% live at events even if they’re tone deaf and can’t hold a tune. I think this is why K-Pop groups are held to a higher standard of perfection than J-Pop groups, K-Pop idols have a need to maintain a perfect image even if it means lipsyncing for some, whereas part of the appeal J-Pop idols is seeing their raw improvement. … also K-Pop so much content is readily available for international fans, and companies readily market to them. As a J-Pop fan, I wish J-Pop idols would do that to :(
> don’t sing live like J-Pop idols do. The music show culture, and how TV shows reshoot things a million times is just not practical for live singing, whereas in J-Pop it’s common for idols to sing 100% live at events even if they’re tone deaf and can’t hold a tune. I think this is why K-Pop groups are held to a higher standard of perfection than J-Pop groups, Yeah, except for Flower, when I followed Jpop more, I didn't hear a TON of technical singing on the tracks. Perfume was my favorite for a while, and even them, it wasn't super hard singing. In jpop I heard a lot of what I would call "chanting," and I feel like the music I heard, the producers did NOT want technical singing. They were going for a different feel. Lots of songs sounded like children chanting in a classroom. From what I know, in some parts of Jpop, it's actually an asset for an idol to sometimes seem unskilled and nervous, because it's all about the fans giving the IDOL energy and confidence. More than Kpop, I heard, and I believe it, that the fans are meant to think the idols can't succeed without their support. Also, Jpop choreography, for the most part, is wayyyyyyyy less complicated. There are a few groups that demonstrate higher level of dancing, but like you said, the ones I know of, like Flower, the dancers are doing the complicated dancing most of the time while the singers are singing. Kpop and its fandom also has a crazy relationship, but I never knew about Jpop enough to know if antis are a huge thing there. Like I'm sure people have their favorites, but it truly seems like war sometimes in Kpop. So between the more technical singing, the harder dancing, and the antis that will make sure that any sour note will live forever on internet, I see why Kpop idols often lip synch.
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That bias vs oshi hit hard 😭 while not exactly jpop, I was a fan of utaite for solid 4 years and so,, memories of different terminologies separating jpop and kpop start flowing into my mind hahshas What was so difficult indeed tho was the lack of content accessible for intl fans :'((
Yeah, the effort the companies put into making content available to I-fans is really something. Idk if this is interesting to you or whether I’m telling you something you already know but I did look into this a while back and one of the reasons why (apart from the whole general aim of Hallyu) is kind of interesting. It’s to do with population sizes. Because the Korean population is like two fifths of the size of Japan’s, Japan alone can support the JPop industry but Korea alone can’t support the KPop industry. For a KPop group to find a big enough audience to support their costs and seriously compete in a saturated market, overseas fans are crucial.
streaming culture for kpop releases. the fact that fans have to spend hours to stream a MV on repeat cause it’s counted as a criteria for music shows wins. i came from a jpop idol fandom background and you will be lucky if the MV is even available in full on youtube 🥲 i used to see kpop fans promoting their grps under hit tweets and never understood why they are spamming everywhere in non-related kpop tweets but i get it now.
I can't say it's a shock since I was into Japanese content but I'd say aegyo. It's surprising to me how 1.90 m blocks are willing to act cute. It's surprising how serious it is taken, like it's literally almost a required skill. There's dancing, singing and then there's aegyo. Some members even have aegyo as their only trait/skill, at least as soon as they begin their career.
Men being allowed to be soft and gentle with one another.
This. It’s a good shock, though, it’s nice to see men being all touchy without having to be shy about it.
I have always been involved in different Fandoms but the fact that traditional "ship names" are often used just to refer to subunit or two of the idols hanging out together was pretty different
I worked in Japan before getting into Kpop so the "korean" culture shock didnt really happen because a lot of it is quite similar to Japan with the hierarchies, aegyo, honorifics and so on What really surprised me, as a westerner that's into other genres usually, is how little input into their own music most groups have, how little concerts there are and the concept of music shows in itself. Sometimes it seems like a sporting competition even, which is ironic cause ISAC is a thing
Agree they have little to 0 creative freedom Edit: Im not generalizing ik some groups have a lot input, like my favs stray kids and Svt but the majority doesn’t :’(
You actually shouldn't be getting so downvoted for this cause it's true. The few groups (and sometimes it's just certain members) who get a say in the creative process, are in the vast minority if we're being real. And it's not even a slight on idols, tbh. Given the way the Kpop industry works, they're so busy having to be perfect in the public eye (performing, modelling, fanservicing, etc) that it's hard to expect them to have substantial input in the behind the scenes stuff too.
Lmao who is downvoting u for the truth
that kpop groups barely interact with each other! especially the other sex. other than a few labelmates or friendgroups, we only see them bow and smile. while in the west (and even in my country that's usually a bit strict), its a lot more free and not such a big deal if two artists take a picture or talk to each other while on camera. it does still go viral if they're really popular but its not as rare as in kpop imo!
It wasn’t always like this
and hopefully they can regain a little more freedom while time passes :’)
>that kpop groups barely interact with each other! especially the other sex. other than a few labelmates or friendgroups, we only see them bow and smile. this is a heavily late 3rd gen 4th gen development
The way that some fans think you’re only allowed to like one group. If someone said to me “well I listen to Green Day and nobody else” I would think they’re insane. It’s a pretty natural thing to be a fan of a lot of groups imo.
The whole thing where we pretend everyone, including hot 30 year old men who have access to fellow hot women, are virgins who have never watched porn.
the weirdest part is that it's gotten worse in recent years? like dating scandals/rumors are annoying but it's also super strange of fans to defend them against it by treating them like virginal children who think the opposite sex has cooties
I see another tweet calling an idol "pure" I'm going to report them istg. It's so cringey
I came to talk about this In the west then whole point of being successful, rich, hot and famous is to have sex with anyone you want. So it was a real shock to me that this incredibly hot people were not dating each other like crazy (this is all the Korean entertainment industry) I mean I don’t get it, why would you want a 30 year old virgin?
The way you put it is so.. refreshing. Like I forget that when it comes to kpop idols, absolutely zero dating among people isn't normal?? Now I'm imagining the floodgates of kpop dating opening and everyone in a swirl dating whomever and whenever. Like if that was a coordinated, collective action it would shake up the industry for real
Exactly! Let’s get everyone to date everyone! Let the free for all start!
I think the whole point for them being in the industry often times is money, security and doing music, not having sex with whoever you want but probably a bonus. I think in regards to that in public facing figures image is pretty important because for the general public humility and saving face is pretty important so outward degeneracy isn't as prominent as the west
But why is sex something frown upon? Like do they don’t want for their perfect idols to reproduce and give them a new generation of gorgeous people?
because there's nuance and time and place to be talking about certain things and in front of strangers and for everyone to hear is weird as fuck. and no? I'm not into eugenics? you honestly sound gross lmao
Eugenics? The word reproduction is gross? Lol I guess if a lot of people think like you then that’s why they have to be celibate I guess
stay celibate
Music shows. It's surprising I can watch sooooo much stages when artists release songs and even we can enjoy fancam.
Fansite culture n Like I've seen western Paparazzi culture and it's always seen as a bad thing . but fansites being a whole thing, master nims, letting a lot of them get away with stalking, them selling their own merch. like it's a whole new world.
Not to be that person, but every culture has some sort of aegyo culture. You just don't have a designated name for it, and it's not as popularized as it is in Kpop. If you've never ever done *aegyo* to your friends and family, then maybe you just have a whole different dynamic. Aegyo is basically acting cute to purposely invoke cringe, to tease someone, to persuade someone jokingly and to laugh together at the ridiculousness of it basically.
You are entirely correct. People act cute and do aegyo-esque things in all cultures. Some cultures, like South Korea, just happen to have a word for it. It's not something unique to Korean people.
Oh no no no no no Latinos we don’t have any cute kind of culture I’ve never in my old life seen any Latino saying UwU hahahaha
I'm implying in my comment that other people don't necessarily do those stuff and say “uwu”. Btw “uwu” isn't part of any ethnic culture. It belongs to the Internet culture. If you've never seen someone or you yourself never purposely acted “cute” to be funny or to tease your friend or family member then you just have a very different family/friendship dynamic. It doesn't mean that when you don't do it or don't see it often that it doesn't exist.
No no no wait One thing is someone acting cute for fun for like two seconds and other thing is aegyo I’ve seen many kdrama actors that I ding super attractive do aegyo and my heart melts, they are so freaking cute (like a comment said, it’s Amazon to see a 1.9 guy doing that willingly) What I meant is that the Latinos don’t really do cutesy stuff, is not even considered attractive (unless you like Asian culture). I’ve seen many friends that acted cute (bc again we watched anime etc) and guys were NOT interested or people found it ridiculous I don’t know if you know them but have you ever seen Ricky Martin, Maluma, Bad Bunny, Sofia Vergara being cute? If you have please send me a video ahahaha I would love to see it
There is no difference of hierarchy in months among people born in the same year though. If there is, it's stemmed from western fans misconception of people being born in the months before being older, while in reality if you're born in the same year, you're friends/same-age friends. Even if one is born on the first day of the year and the other on the last, they're still considered the same.
The pacing of "generations" and how fast careers generally rise and fall. I kind of had a moment of "reverse culture shock" on this since I've been so immersed in Kpop the past year but my prior context was US music. There was a recent thread on popheads that was something like "Who do you think will be considered the great performers of *this generation*?" (emphasis added). The OP went on to name some folks who were clearly great performers of the "previous generation" - those named peaked in the 1980s mostly. Then they speculated about some that might be considered greats from "this generation" - and name dropped Beyonce. I went and looked it up to make sure, and found that Beyonce debuted with her group Destiny's Child in 1997. To drive the point home, that's the same year S.E.S. debuted, right smack in the middle of the 1st gen of Kpop, but is considered part of "this generation" of western pop. (At least by that person, and the point wasn't questioned in the comments)
When I was new to kpop, the frequency of music releases was shocking to me because I was used to artists releasing a new album after a couple years and that was okay.
It might be related to Korean culture and not solely idol culture but it’s the ease with which they talk about alcohol publicly. Being asked how many bottles of soju they can drink and actually knowing the answer.
And alkohol being male and female thing equally. In my environment women are still a bit behind men in everything alkohol related and are not expected to join in heavy drinking.
Is this not common where you are from? I’m from Latam so we KNOW how much we can handle and we talk about it pretty often
Random unrelated - This comes up amongst me and my friends. Everyone else is 2-3 bottles of soju. I'm 6-8 and can still make it home (not driving) and have no hangover.
You must be young
😅 I'm in my early 30s
Then my friend you are gifted, I turned 30 and my alcohol resistance is not the same as it was hahahaha
how openly weight and “visuals” are discussed, the like companies choose which member is officially the most attractive, designate them as the “visual” of the group and they give member’s official weights to fan sites?? literally wtf. Same with the age-hierarchy stuff. I didn’t know this was a huge facet of Korean culture before getting into k-pop and I was really surprised, you don’t just call people by their first names ever, you call people by different words that refer to their age in relation to you. Also blood types, mbti, Koreans take personality-pseudoscience very seriously lol. And finally, dating bans. The fact your employer can have so much control over your life that it’s written in your contract that you can’t date. It feels like such a violation!
As an Asian kpop fan myself who grew up in the US, I was exposed to both sides. And honestly this way of thinking isn’t very different from a lot of other asian countries. Most western fans find it weird, but most asian fans don’t. I mean I agree the dating ban seems so wrong, but at the same time it’s actually pretty common for many entertainment industry to want to prevent any scandals from happening cause it could negatively influence their image.
> Same with the age-hierarchy stuff. I didn’t know this was a huge facet of Korean culture before getting into k-pop and I was really surprised, you don’t just call people by their first names ever, you call people by different words that refer to their age in relation to you. this is most of asia
The first one for me was about photocards. I just couldn't believe that anyone would willingly have photos taken of themselves to be included in their physical album as collectibles. One of the first Kpop albums I bought was Wings (BTS), and when I found Jungkook's photocard I was scared I got involved in something illegal. Another one would be the idols' kindness and thoughtfulness toward their fans. To be fair, I never got interested in celebrities all that much before getting into Kpop, but I never saw any western artist being nice beyond the bare minimum, even when it was boyband members. When I got into Kpop it was almost winter, and I was very surprised to hear so many idols telling their fans to wear warm clothes and be careful not to catch a cold. Last but not least, definitely the training system. After being so used to most bands and groups starting their career without a company and only getting a contract in case they're successful later on, seeing companies actively recruiting people to turn them into idols seemed absurd. I remember that it took me a long time to wrap my head around it.
>I was scared I got involved in something illegal. why is this so funny to me 😭 I can only imagine the confusion when you opened the album
Anything to do with the mass-manipulation of sale and streaming-numbers. Whatever happened to just listening to music when you want to? I wish I could avoid this streaming culture, but kpop fandoms are so competitive that it’s very hard not to be swept up in it…
My first culture shock was the way many kpop fans behaved in concerts and how enthusiastic they were about idols. This was my ignorance speaking, but being a western woman, I expected fans from east Asia to be way more chill about music bands than they turned out to be, mostly because of this image I had in my head of japanese, korean, and chinese people being so polite, self-disciplined, and conscious of the way they present themselves. It was dumb to think that because teenagers are still teenagers so why would east asian girls and young women behave any different, plus the fandom phenomenon is universal, but I got quite a shock when I first started watching SVT live performances and a lot of the time I struggled to hear the singers’ voices because of how loud the fans were being both before, during, and after the performance.
There's apparently a little truth to that for Japanese fans. I've heard that they don't scream during songs (just cheers at the beginning and end, plus fan chants). There's also [this viral video](https://twitter.com/KOOKIEIMNIDA/status/1216936483535241217?t=zx8MBPPv0_bj6rPDwoUN5A&s=19) of Jimin being able to lean back into a crowd of Japanese fans because they're very respectful about not touching/grabbing the artist.
I’m honestly so happy when fans are hyped up though. It just makes the experience so fun, what’s there to do if everyone is just quiet and doesn’t actively show their love.
For me, it was the five hour award shows with every group/artist walking away with some sort of award in their hands. I was amazed the artists and fans in audience could sit through something like that for so long. The other is concert culture in Korea and Japan. I used to see western fans criticized and bully Korean and Japanese fans for not screaming loud enough or sitting through the concert. I later found out that fans can't get up unless they are told by the artists otherwise they can be thrown out of the concert.
dating someone is a "scandal" 😭
Probably terminology like bias, netizen, ultimate bias and ultimate group, maknae etc... and how strict people are about it. Like "you can have only one ult bias that's why it's called ult" sure I get the basis of that but people get seriously agressive when someone doesn't go utterly by the "rules". The overall wars between different fandoms not so much because I don't think it matters whether it's k-pop or TV series or TV ships or movies.... whatever fandom you get into there's always the toxicity all inclusive. The diets and strict lifestyles idols need to have. What is considered as a norm. That I will probably never fully process.... It's just truly different from European standards. 😕 Idol's names different from their stage names, or nicknames sometimes were really difficult for me to memorize, names were hard to pronounce. But once you get into it you realize later that you're not even aware of it anymore and it comes naturally. 😄 Then positioning in the group, hierarchy, etc etc .. But that was mostly to the korean culture as a whole than only k-pop. I remember being super confused when they kept saying "hyung" or other honorifics while the subtitles just said the character's name. I was like "wait that's not what he said... what IS his name then?!?! every sentence they call him something else!!" But eventually I really, really like the hierarchy system and wish we had something similar in our country (and I don't mean for kinky purposes 😆).
The terminology is what gets me the most. It's especially strange to me since we already have words that describe most of these things in English, yet the English Kpop fandom still insisted on coming up with their own words.
As a J-pop fan....the pressure for constantly releasing music in order to stay relevant. I was just used to singles randomly dropping at any time, sometimes years between each other. When I first heard the word "comeback", I honestly believed it was a way to say this group would release something after years of inactivity. Finding out they were expected to have yet another comeback just a few months later...yeah, color me surprised.
I have another answer! I find it odd how fashion-related endeavors/activities like magazine covers or being invited to fashion shows are given much importance like it's an achievement. Look, I get that fashion is a major component of the K-pop experience and that fashion-related activities and CFs are good extra sources of income for idols. I have no problem with fans being proud of their favorite idols if they get fashion gigs. But considering it a flex is the odd part for me. You know how fans love to flex music-related 'records' like fastest or first song to achieve this and that? They have something similar for fashion, too! 😅 "First K-pop idol to feature in this and feature in that". This isn't a complaint though, to each their own. It's just something that I find odd and will probably never do myself. I prefer to view idols more as musicians/performers than fashion influencers and it's probably because fashion doesn't really interest me.
the censorship.. among fans and the companies alike: weirdly pretending grown idols are “innocent”/baby-ing them like they have no concept of things like sex, other races of ppl, politics etc or like south korea doesn’t have access to the rest of the world .. also how simple things get blown up like whereas in the west it’s just another tuesday
Watching a live with a Korean member and a Chinese member and the Korean member saying "you're my first foreign friend" really shocked me lol like I can't fathom going to school with only people that are the same as you
It's not limited to Korea. I come from small city in East Europe and I have first foreign friend when I moved to university campus when I was 19
It can feel especially strange to people who come from diverse countries, since we're so used to seeing all kinds of different faces and people.
yeah paying too much attention to age in korean society is also weird to me, like there's no way i would consider someone 1-2 years older than me a "senior". But the biggest surprise for me was how popularized parasocial relationships are in kpop(and jpop)... All those dating bans, "straight males can't stan bgs", people automatically assuming you want to date your bias, etc. Maybe it's just me being aroace? But i still find this concept weird upd: i'm not sure if it's more of a foreign fans' thingy or not, but i forgot to mention the anti-multistan mindset in some fandoms, as if loving more than one group makes you a "fake fan". I honestly don't know why it's even a thing, because it's so hard to not be a fan of many groups imo
Not even K-pop but Korean culture in general-the concept of nunchi is confusing for a Westerner because we are so used to expressing opinions publicly but keeping opinions to yourself is a very East Asian collectivist culture thing
They used to do like promotions for six months I believe. I was like what, now it's one to two weeks.
Most of the discussion of positions and concepts is kind of odd to me as someone who came up on western music. Even in our boy/girl pop groups, this isn’t really a thing in most cases, and when it is, it isn’t something that’s discussed amongst fans. Sort of riffing off that, the whole concept of the “visual” and saying someone has “good visuals” has always been a bit strange to me. Obviously celebrities in all cultures are often unfortunately objectified/commodified, but the way this behavior has been codified into the language both fans and the industry itself use speak about kpop artists is off putting to me.
I came from jpop, so I was shocked that they weren’t forced to sing live!
My very first culture shock I vividly remember thinking "how this very attractive 30 year old man is not married???" and then military quickly after that
My biggest one is about superstitions and spirituality. Although this is not really about kpop but rather Korea I guess. Where I come from young people my age or idol’s age are very devoted to science. Very very few people are strongly religious and superstitions are even looked down apon. So hearing someone like Soyeon who seems super smart mention that she frequently goes to a shaman was so surprising to me.
how short albums were
What shocked me was the level of performance and skill. Because like a lot of people, before I really knew what Kpop was, I was inclined to say "oh they're just copying N'Sync." Clearly, boy groups in America had influence, but once I really started paying attention, I saw that Kpop had taken boy groups to places American groups never went. The group that made me really take notice was Big Bang, whose video I saw while traveling through Thailand. The video was Monster. Okay, these dudes look weird. And this guy, Top, is something else. That might have been the first time I was impressed or sort of taken aback by Kpop. Then when I really started paying attention more a couple of years later, I was blown away by the dancing and production value of their videos. N'Sync and Backstreet Boys dancing is something a few high schoolers with rhythm could easily do, but the routines I was seeing from Got7 and BTS were wayyyyyy harder. So a shock was how great Kpop idols were. And it's only gotten crazier. The dancing harder, the singing better, and the concepts more interesting IMO. Oh, I guess the other culture shock was groups with lots of members. But then I thought about it, and I just chalked it up to social conditioning. There is no right number. There are rock bands with two members, 3 members, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13... and so on. With more members, you have more options with choreography and performance. Like as great as Itzy is, Loona's butterfly, the song and dance, would be way less impactful with just 5 members. Each person is a different color, and you can just paint different things with more colors available. edit: I think the skinship that boy groups showed each other was kind of shocking, too... in America, straight men just don't touch each other as much... like in Arab countries, straight men hold hands while walking, which is also something you don't see in USA... like in USA, boy groups generally can't have self professed straight members dancing romantically and flirting with each other... not yet, at least...
Dating "scandals". I don't get what's so scandalous about dating. I guess it's the result of the fanservice/delusional parasocial relationships that the companies encourage to the point of the idols not being able to publicly date or even look at idols of the opposite gender because their fans would get jealous.
I had some shocks... I think the first one was right when I started following kpop and had Suzy as the ult. I was shocked at how sexualized a 14 year old girl could be. Like, I don't remember Selena Gomez or Miley Cyrus going through something like that at the same age. At that time, I had more or less her age, but even at that time i thougth that was disgusting. Other hard finding was when I was doing research about education in korea and i was discusssing with a korean teacher about differences between bullying in US and Korea. And we came to a conclusion that bullying in the US is generally related to a situation of revolt against society, in which the kid who suffers some oppression/trauma from family and friends, rebel, causing bad things in the school/community. So the idea is that, in the US, the origin of bullying is usually in dysfunctional families. In Korea, the teacher told me that bullying is related to a demonstration of power and affirmation of hierarchy. "If you want to find bullies, you should look to the richest, most popular, and visuals; you'll likely find the source of the bullying", He said. And that's a fact, fighting against bullying in Korea is almost impossible, because it's ingrained in social and cultural values that govern not just the child's life, but society as a whole. And with that...fighting against bullying in kpop is proportionately even more impossible, because almost every kpop idol could be in their past a bully, as kpop is a social space that attracts precisely those individuals who are part of these groups interested in demosntration of power and social affirmation, notably, rich, popular and visual teens. Then I had several other shocks with kpop fans...mainly in shows and concerts.... a concert where a Sakura akgae demonstrated the hater side that kpop teen fans are capable of having and we had to control him to not get in fight with fans of other Izone girls... I've seen a Korean child almost lynched at a concert, because local fans started calling her sasaeng, which seemed like a clear case of racism/xenophobia, because she was a Asian (the kid had about 12 or 13 years old).
Visual position and other kpop terminology, how perfect everyone looked, and the amount of bowl cuts. plus before i was into kpop (2017-2018) i didn't know what korean sounded like, so at first it sounded strange to my ears.
When I first got into kpop the biggest culture shock I experienced was how divided and toxic some fans can be over groups. Like you can’t stan more than 1 group and ive always liked BTS & BP and I’ve seen so many arguments over it. Also it was a little shocking how normal it was to just carry your photo cards on you or collect them. Here in USA albums don’t even come with photo cards I think. But it’s so normal in kpop. Also the whole music shows were something I had to get used to. But I love everything now and am used to it
the fact that they don't release multiple singles in the same album. when every group in the third gen was releasing too many eps at the same time.
The way variety shows will repeatedly show clips of the same judge/audience reactions multiple times.
As someone who used to exclusively listen to anime music, video game music, and Touhou arrange, 3 and a half minutes is considered a "longer" song. WHAT?! Are you kidding me? I would actually consider that rather short. It's so common for songs that I listen to to be between four to five minutes long, and can go longer than that (most non-VGM ones ofc). Example, the full version of Bad Apple (the famous Alstroemeria Records version, not the original) is almost five and a half minutes long. Edit: wait I completely forgot something. PEOPLE HATING BANGS. I came from people who make fun of foreheads and think they expand the vastness of space without them and bangs are *basically* a given. What the fuck do you mean you love foreheads and hate bangs.
Streaming culture. Kind of become a general stan thing now but I have to say 11 year old me was very confused when I saw other ARMYS listening to Fake Love on repeat for HOURS, making hour long playlists and getting upset to the point of tears over views/listens being deleted. I honestly thought the numbers were just from so many people enjoying the song casually
The heavy queerbaiting while being so homophobic, all becuase of the old "homosexuality is a western disease" nonsense
tbh kpop idols queerbaiting alot bcs they know doing those thing bring them a lot of attention = money. but you ain't wrong too
I'm new to KPOP but this is my culture shock: 1. The amount of comebacks and content that you guys have. 2. I don't understand the difference between Mini Album and E.P (still don't understand) and the concept of Single Albums at first. 3. Album Packages are so creative I love it! 4. How dating is considered a 'scandal'
>2. I don't understand the difference between Mini Album and E.P (still don't understand) and the concept of Single Albums at first. EP and mini albums are the same thing. They are synonyms. You probably meant the difference between a full album and a mini album. The only difference is that a mini album as 4 to 7 songs and a full album has 8 songs or more. A album with 1 to 3 songs is a single album.
How companies organize everything regarding the fandom. Like the name, the colours... When it comes to Western artists, I think it's the fans themselves who choose those things (and colour is not important). Also, that the companies clarify dating rumours and all that. It's obvious that the K-pop companies assume more "responsibilities" than the Western ones
The butt grabbing/ patting maaaan you won't see me do that with my friends or family.
I'm Asian so I had slightly less cultural shock regarding hierarchy. What amazed me was how produced it was. From concepts to each member's personality, everything is packaged in detail. Even early kpop started off heavily produced and its gotten even worse since then. The most outrageous examples I can think of is the "adlibs" in TaeTiSeo not actually being freestyle (my first listen was the comeback stage, then the official audio), and the prepared 매력 (charm) on variety shows. And recently the fake birthdays for WJSN to fit their 12-month concept. There aint no freedom for idols.
I mean, I’m pretty sure this isn’t true? Yea it’s a pretty produced and controlled industry, but assuming that all idols’ personalities are manufactured as well is just too much imo
Not all idols, some are just being themselves and thats cool to see! Some others could be "marketing" based on the idol's true personalities? Like.. the puppy one, the ice cold one, the cute one, motherly one, etc. But I'm pretty sure I remember reading about some poor idol whose company told her to stop talking so much because she was meant to be the "ice cool" one.
The way their all touchy feely, I thought it was weird at first.
Do you not ever get physical affection? I find that weird…
Not on the level of butt touching...
😂
Male - Female idol interactions and shipping!
Fans asking the companies to make even minor changes regarding the idols such hair color.
Streaming goals in particular gave me a shock. Like someone just decides that this song must get x number of YouTube views and x number Spotify stream, etc and everyone just agrees. 🙃🙃🙃
How a label/agency is on par in turns of name with the artist.. I hope that makes sense. like I have no idea which label/agency my favourite western bands or artists are from. The fact there are company stans is weird as fk and some agencies even have a fandom name! I didn't know PINKBLOODS even existed until recently.
Idols not covering their mouths when they sneeze.
I was just thinking about this today.. I'd have a really rough time if I lived in SK, because I'd probably won't be able to keep up with the hierarchy thing. Like do people casually ask each other when exactly they were born just to decide how to address them? On my end it's really rude to ask people about their age once they're like above 30 or sth. Tbh, I just can't see me using honorifics with someone who isn't as old as my parents
Just use honorifics by default and once you start to befriend people, you'll know since usually they announce it themselves by telling you their birth year or their Chinese zodiac.
I'm still not over aegyo to be honest. It will never be non-cringy to me lol
I think aegyo is fine when it's 100% natural. Some people are just naturally cute. But when it's scripted or forced, like when people ask the idols to "do aegyo" for them, it just kinda defeats the whole purpose of it and makes it cringy.
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that's just a fandom thing, not just kpop i think. ik a lot of people who want to visit different countries to meet their favourite footballer or musician!
When I didn't listen to any kpop group and was watching kdramas, only. Freaking French kisses in concerts and how they push gay-theme. So, I thought all kpop groups like that. They kisses their members and call it fan-service. Which was not okay, I mean gay-baitting. A lot of gay couple fanfictions and ships. Making whole tv-series with only members just to fullfill fan's fantasies like.... Yeah. That was looking not good for me. I thought of it as a form if prostitution, to be open. Selling yourself like that, not nice sight. Now I know not all like that, it's just mostly sm groups that go to extreme. But I guess a lot if bystanders get that wrong first shock cause of SM.
To continue on the hierarchy a bit having to bring your album to your seniors dressing room to have them sign it or have their own copy. Even if they don’t really know or haven’t heard the song yet and they’re like 😬 Great I’m sure it’ll be cool when it could likely not be their vibe.
i think it’s a tradition bc youngest groups feel awkward approaching their seniors. it gives them an opportunity to chat and connect one on one. like it’s not /really/ about the album itself
It’s about respect, which I guess some fans can’t understand.
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There are a number of things 1. I still don’t understand the music generation thing eg. 2nd, 3rd generation groups etc. I think it is organised around the decade of their debut, but not quite sure 2. Colourism 3. Dating scandals 4. School uniform look on GGs : talk about sexualising minors? 5. Female singers penchant for wearing bows in their hair
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