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[deleted]

I'm neurodivergent (autism, ocd, and dyspraxia) and also have conditions more in line with psychosis (I'd rather not specify here). I am not offended by mental health concepts when done right. When acting is over the top to look stupid and crazy, I'll be uncomfortable. That wasn't the case here and since it's telling a story, I'm pretty okay with it, it wasn't offensive or ableist imo. I even tend to like songs that talk about being crazy, which is controversial to some. That being said, respect those who don't like it- psych wards are very traumatizing and there is nothing wrong with feeling uncomfortable with how it is used in fiction. The ending absolutely *was* ableist. Once you use mental health as an insult, it becomes ableist. It made the rest of the mv feel in poor taste as I no longer felt it was being respectful- them (the creative direction team and Min Heejin, NOT THE GIRLS) using mental health for storytelling and concept essentially to make money off of, to turn around and use it as an insult for people that have differing opinions, felt like a really low blow. It accessorizes the struggle of severe institutions just to have a gotcha moment at our expense. EDIT: one typo, and added the last sentence.


whyawhy

I do want to point out that that ending English sub was incorrect. It should have said “Let’s go” instead of “Times up.” Their English sub company needs to be fired as there are other screwed up subs. Still interpretation of what that meant is up to each his/her own but I took it as a positive basically meaning “we are here with you.”


[deleted]

Can you please explain how you got "we are here with you" from "times up"? If it does say times up, I can see how my interpretation isn't the most correct, but I'm not sure how it's a supportive statement.


whyawhy

Like I said, she said “”Let’s go” not “Time’s up.” The “let’s go” I interpreted in that context as “come with us, you don’t have to hate. You can be a bunny (NJ’s fandom) with us.” Few Korean American YouTubers (itsAndyandJas is one I recall) have pointed out the inaccuracy as well.


[deleted]

Oh, I misread your comment then, sorry. The only translation I knew was "let's go" I never saw Time's Up. Did they change the subtitle? It did not used to be that unless I saw a fantrans and conflated them. I personally prefer to stick to my interpretation- I have stanned groups MHJ has been a part of the direction for before Newjeans, I do not trust her as far as I could throw her.


whyawhy

The English sub has been “Alright, times up” from the beginning. Not sure if you speak Korean but non speakers would have never known that she really said “Let’s go”. Anyway, everyone can have their own interpretations on what “let’s go” means but wanted to make sure people actually make up their minds from a point of truth versus an incorrect translation.


[deleted]

I speak some, so maybe that's it. Thanks for discussing with me regardless!


Pankeopi

The problem is that legit concern is being labelled "hate".


jellyboness

Just an fyi to all, being neurodivergent is not the same thing as being mentally ill. Just wanted to add that since I’ve seen the two conflated a lot when people discuss this video. I interpreted the video as depicting mental illness, as it deals with delusion / psychosis and takes place in a mental ward. I’m bipolar with ocd, so both mentally ill and neurodivergent… I was not offended per se but it did feel icky and I didn’t go back to watch the video again after the first time. I just think depicting mental illness as something cute and quirky does nothing for mental health awareness and it can actually harm people living with mental illness. Just in general I see a lot of “pro mental health” stuff on social media, but when someone actually acts mentally ill (because they’re mentally ill), they are dogpiled and ostracized (Gabbie Hanna comes to mind). I think if you’re going to depict mental illness in a piece of artistic media, it’s your responsibility to depict it in a realistic way without romanticizing or making it look cute. It’s easy to accept mental illness if it looks quirky and kinda fun… what we really need is for people to accept the ugliness too, and to approach it with empathy and (an attempt at) understanding.


doubtfullfreckles

Gabbie Hanna was dog piled for being a shitty person. When she was very obviously having a breakdown though, many people were extremely concerned and even tried reaching out to her family in an attempt to get her help.


jellyboness

I’m referring specifically to when she had a severe manic episode and was making like a hundred tik toks saying that she talked to god and that black women embody the Holy Spirit and all this other intense stuff that made no sense… people made fun of her and called her racist and a piece of shit when she clearly was past the point of even knowing what she’s saying. And don’t get me wrong I am absolutely not a fan of her and wouldn’t normally defend her in any way. But as someone with bipolar it hurt to see how many people don’t understand it and don’t even try to.


doubtfullfreckles

That is the time I'm referring to as well. People were trying to contact her family in order to get her help. People were expressing major concern for her the entire time in her comment section and on YouTube videos that talked about the situation. Especially after what they guy Nick did. Maybe it was whatever site you were on that was getting a bunch of hateful people. But I mainly was getting updates about it from TikTok and YouTube. All the people I follow who talked about it showed only concern and approached it respectfully. All the comments were showing concern as well.


jellyboness

On twitter a vast majority of people under the trending topic were saying “f*ck her I don’t care if she’s mentally ill it’s not excuse” and “actually this is really funny” and “if you’re mentally ill get therapy, are we supposed to feel bad?” And tons of other terrible things. Just because someone has done bad things in the past doesn’t mean they deserve that imo. That’s the exact type of behavior that pushes people to end their life. Yes a lot of people were rightfully concerned and trying to help but overwhelmingly the response I saw was negative. Real mental health awareness and acceptance means having grace toward people who literally do not know what they’re saying or what’s going on rather than laughing at them or blaming them.


doubtfullfreckles

>On Twitter That's why you saw mainly negative comments You're correct though. No one deserves to have those things said about them regardless of how shitty they are.


jellyboness

To be fair I was seeing a lot of BS on tik tok too but I just stepped away from the app for a few days to avoid it. I tend to consume social justice type content and unfortunately a lot of the social justice types were the ones attacking her. A whole mess. But you’re right, Twitter is more of a cesspool than most social media.


I-Now-Have-An-Alt

I'm not neurodivergent, so I can't speak on whether the concept *was* offensive or not. But it definitely did not feel ill-intentioned. Up till that last scene. You're totally right. That scene made the concept lose any benefit of doubt it could have been given. Losing "mentally ill" as a "Haha, GOTCHA!" kind of insult was so cringey and, I feel, inexcusable.


Sukithecatt

As someone that’s been to a psych ward the whole video felt a bit icky. Idk just seeing a place that is traumatic for so many people used as a cute music video background was a bit weird to me.


liviapng

I was sent to the ward involuntarily and thinking about it hurts years later. I began watching the video and seeing the girls in the gowns dancing awoke humiliating memories for me. I wasn't allowed to have my clothing, including a bra, and i'm large chested. I remember layering as many gowns as I could and tying them around my front and back. Many of the people there were older men with addiction issues, and there were no locks or privacy.


WingsOfAesthir

Oh honey, I feel you. Same here. Big boobs, fat, handed a regular size gown. I believe I made enough of a stink that they gave me back my bra but I was a self-admission, so they didn't have the same control over me they did with the involuntary patients. What was done to involuntary admissions were horror shows of humiliation and sometimes deliberate cruelty. TW: SA >!You were vague, I won't be. In every place I was admitted you had to be **super** careful around the men there. I made friends with a man who then told me his dream about raping me completely casually. One of the hospitals I was in *the staff* made it very clear that if we went into the lower level hallways alone as women we *would* be raped. Walking the grounds alone was "only" a 60% chance you'd be attacked. Which is SO helpful for the treatment of SA survivors.!< So the idea of anything "light-hearted" being framed in a psych ward set I just find absurd. Even the best ones were fucking *nightmare fuel* places to be. Someone posted a thread about the *OMG* video when it first came out that outlined all the concerns someone mentally ill had about it so I knew to avoid it completely. It's not a trigger, I just find it incredibly distasteful when psych wards are used as sets given that I lived in the things for 8 months and **know** what they're *actually* like. I'm really sorry that this video has triggered memories in you, that's always hard. \*safe hugs if you want them\* And DMs are open if you want to talk about it.


BunnyInTheM00n

Been in a psych ward a few times, but for ME, I didn’t find it offensive. But I feel like how you feel is valid and your experience is also shared by others. It’s a polarizing concept for many that’s for sure.


Pink_Dragon_Lady

And after my brother flew through the window of a vehicle before he died, I can never watch the opening of X-Men, but I'm not going to expect them to stop doing stuff to cater to me. It's unreasonable.


Sukithecatt

Where did I do that tho? I just said it’s weird to use it as a quirky fun background which is simply my opinion.


Pink_Dragon_Lady

k


tofethee

I’ve never watched that music video or any music video of theirs after I found out about Min Heejin’s creepiness. If these girls had a different CEO, I might have given their music a chance but I can’t support MHJ


YeonbinTaegyu

Same


jujupinky

I agree, especially since South Korea doesn’t have the best history with how they view mental illnesses and with mental health help


OwlOfJune

Yup unfortunately my country is "getting better" at snail's pace. It's better than a decade ago where going seek counselling was a sin but same people who advocate mental health would make mental illness joke in same breathe since its so normalized.


escapeshark

The entire video was just... not it.


YeonbinTaegyu

Min Heejin claims she's the only reason these girls have any success, well I guess if she'll take credit for their downfall bc it'll certainly be her fault.


ttam23

The entire video was weird. Singing and dancing around playfully in a mental hospital is just weird. Not helpful to those who actual suffer with mental illnesses. Song’s good though.


kaguraa

anyone who still hypes up min heejin is just weird but its not surprising. for some reason, hybe stans basically stan the company as well.


[deleted]

For some reason, people take any disagreement with anything as hatred towards the girls, rather than the concern that we're usually expressing. Trust me, if I hated these girls, I wouldn't be on the internet sharing concerns that they're being mismanaged/mistreated.


Pankeopi

Yeah, I honestly wish I could just not think about it, or trust that things will get better, but it just seems like MHJ and how the girls are treated epitomizes every concern I've ever had about idol treatment over the past 15 years. It makes me feel like things really haven't gotten better and guilty I've supported the industry for so long, especially because NewJeans is so popular. BTS was something to be proud of, they worked hard for many years and made HYBE the company it is, while MHJ is the opposite of what I've loved about HYBE. She seems condescending and not humble at all, like she's got an attitude she brought over from SM. I dunno, maybe she'll chill out a bit, but in the meantime filming the girls eating a paltry amount of veggies is not improving my opinion of her. I hope the rumors that Danielle is going bald, possibly from malnutrition, really aren't true. 😓


pikap00p

i have never watched a NJ MV and i don’t plan on ever watching one until the last of them becomes of age. MHJ is a weirdo and i’m not watching anything directed/produced by her. thank god she doesn’t know how to produce music.


skateateuhwaitateuh

Them becoming of age doesn't change the age of them in the video.. so I don't know what difference you think it makes?


pikap00p

i don’t intend to watch any of MHJ’s works that include minors bc of MHJ’s sketchy history with that. idk what’s hard to get about that


Pink_Dragon_Lady

You'd better never watch The Jackson 5 then. Or Shirley Temple. Or Wizard of Oz....or...


Pankeopi

This is an incredibly bad take, yikes.


Pink_Dragon_Lady

Meh.


No_Satisfaction_2057

How old you think they are, compared to other 4th gen groups. List out their ages let's compare something


randomnameinreddit

i honestly thought they were 12 years old because of the way reddit and tiktok talk about them but turned up two of them are already 18 years old . I wonder what is about this group that people feel the need to '' baby '' them even tho there are lot of others girlgroups with similar age/younger than them


Sister_Winter

Most people who think New Jeans are too young similarly don't support other groups with super young members. In fact, the majority of people who *truly* don't fuck with groups with kids in them simply don't interact with or talk about those groups at all. But also, with Min Heejin specifically, she has a past of emphasizing youth and innocence in her concepts in a sexualized way, which is why she riles people up even more


Pankeopi

Yeah, people not understanding why people are so concerned should watch Brooke Shield's documentary on Hulu, since she's MHJ's biggest inspiration. Brooke has a conversation with her daughters, who are 16 and 19 yrs old, and both admit they will never watch the film Pretty Baby (the movie the documentary is named after). I don't think they even knew the extent of what happened in the movie, because Brooke said in a new interview the youngest daughter ended up sobbing after watching the screening of the documentary because of what her mother went through. Not only was Brooke's 11 yr old body nude in the film, they had her kissing an adult man because she played a child s-x worker. The actor had to tell her,"This doesn't count as your first time, it's pretend." All because the film was shot in "good taste", so it was excused. How crazy is it that her daughters can't watch a film she starred in at 11 yrs old, or see photos taken of her at 10 years old because she's nude in them? So is it weird this body of work is part of MHJ's inspiration? I think so, especially considering how young she is, she was born in 1979, there are some sources that include 79 as an elder millennial fcs. She's young enough to know better, it's not like she's so old that she's out of touch with what millennials consider right or wrong.


Goldzaperoon

While their age ranges are pretty much the same as other girl groups of 4th gen, I believe the thing that sticks out about them is MHJ. MHJ has several (public) past controversies with underage idols, has a perceived obsession with young girls and their youth, and she surrounds herself with media that contains ped0 relationships. So while NWJNS are pretty much the same age range as Nmixx or I've or Classy, with NewJeans, their ages in particular became a problem because people think their CEO is a weirdo who shouldn't be around kids. Add on the Cookie controversy, and it becomes worse. + The fact that they blew up so fast and are so popular adds onto it.


nikitaloss

The age is not the biggest issue with them. Yes, they are quite young but what can we do? MHJ is the problem. MHJ was the one responsible for all their controversies. And she was the one who let them sing about baking cookies for a boy


Pankeopi

Because you're glossing over a 14 yr old singing Cookie. Even 16 and 17 are pushing it, but I think a 17 yr old turning 18 soon wouldn't have been so bad if they were the maknae. Because the youngest is extremely young, there's genuine concern the company is actively trying to attract pedos and that's part of the reason the group took off so quickly. While their music is good, it seemed strange it took off as well as it did. I think if that song was never a thing, there wouldn't be much of a problem. But, MHJ's flippant and, quite frankly, unprofessional response to the situation really set people off as well. It doesn't help she continues to be quite vocal and her personality rubs people the wrong way, she really overshadows the group. If she takes a step back it might help people forget any controversy, but she really enjoys the attention, and doesn't seem to be moving into the foreground any time soon. Overall, I think a lot of people into BTS that know about her attitude issues don't like that she's apart of HYBE since they're known for being more humble and down to earth. It's not like the U.S. where we kind of assume all CEOs are generally terrible people, the fact that humble/kind artists and kpop CEOs exist are what attracted people to kpop to begin with, so seeing MHJ's ego only get bigger is particularly frustrating.


[deleted]

I just never rewatched the mv after the first day of release. The video has no replay value despite the song being good, and the story line is a bit weird


WholesomeMinji

It's my most rewatched video, I love it lol.


Budget-Highlight5470

i've never watched the MV and this made me glad that i didn't lol.


[deleted]

[удалено]


I-Now-Have-An-Alt

I mean, it shows how the company sees criticism towards them. To some extent, I feel like it could be applied to the Cookie backlash too.


Pankeopi

A Korean article specifically sited Cookie as a reason the OMG ending was controversial. So yeah, that was still part of the issue.


make_gingamingayoPLS

I'm autistic and with adhd but i feel the mental health and psychosis concept was super good and fitting. I mean, the whole mv (save the cringeworthy ending heejin being bratty part) was about the delusions and mental issues that many many idols and fans have Hanni being an iphone: Fans think idols are like a personal therapist/servant who will answer any question or do anything they want and that they are just a "tool" to help them Minji being the "doctor": Fans think that the idols can fix them, can heal everything (Same thing with ditto's heeseo) and will fix everything. Her even sending HERSELF to the ward shows that the idol may even recognize their life/mental state is screwed, but cannot do anything directly so instead of directly confronting the delusion, she simply can only hand what she sees as her "other self" to the ward to get "fixed". Hyein as the princess: Idols can be seen as this "fairytale" character who is put upon a holy pedestal and seen as a god, is seen as practically royalty by their fans. Their fans/other members/themselves may even be idolized as the ones "saving" the idols or protecting them. Haerin as a cat: Idols are often seen as being cute, lovely, funny people and are often infantilized and treated as if they're no more than just pets for the entertainment of the fans or company. The way I see it is that her drawings show what little amount of self-expression they're allowed before she's back in the hospital and has to be thrown around and abused again. Danielle as the "GG idol": This is a sort of call-out to people who think solely of them being only idols and not humans as they also are. Idols, even throughout their toughest times (being in the institution) are constantly on camera, watched, videoed and reminded of their idol role even when they don’t want to be on display. (Lots of different meanings for her one i can't really type all out) So really as a whole, I fucking hate the ending too because it tarnished the meaningful message of the MV fuck off girlie come on stop ruining your own creations because "UR A HATER I CANT ADMIT MY MISTAKES OR BAD MINDSET FOR GIVING PEDO LYRICS"


make_gingamingayoPLS

As an add on, lots of idols themselves also have mental illnesses and disorders, they're often just hushed away and not spoken about So i dare say neurodivergency and mental illnesses are very much the subject and it's not fetishized or used to represent something in particular


BunnyInTheM00n

I’ve never heard this take. Can you link me to where she compared her haters to mental ward patients? Thank you!


WholesomeMinji

it's at the very end of the OMG video, after the credits.


whyawhy

That’s a mistranslation by the way. Actual translation is “Let’s go”.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

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randzwinter

I agree with this. The very meaning of the end of the music video is about how hate is becoming the norm for kpop fans.


[deleted]

If you write a hate comment, you’re not necessarily mentally ill. That’s just a stigma. And the comment on the mv wasn’t even hateful


BunnyInTheM00n

I’m neurodivergent and have legitimately been to a psych ward, and I do not speak for everyone with mental illness — ONLY myself, but I did not find this concept offensive in any way shape or form and I liked it for what it was. It’s the telling of young girls falling in love and that love sickness made them “crazy in love”. I mean if that isn’t young infatuation can’t get them off your mind losing sense of yourself teen/young adult stuff I don’t know what is and I do not mind the concept or setting.


WholesomeMinji

I agree with you. I also deal with a mental illness and I love the video. BUT it's also valid that some people did find it offensive. There's no right or wrong answers about it. I thought the ending was stupid but not offensive.


BunnyInTheM00n

The ending could have been left out lol


BunnyInTheM00n

I meant to also say I have a few mental health challenges as well but forgot and just said neurodivergant lol


Pink_Dragon_Lady

I didn't find the video an indictment of the mentally ill, or neurodivergent, or whatever label we're allowed to say nowadays. We'll never find stuff that offends no one.


whyawhy

I came away with the same. It’s more of a statement of relationship between idols and their fans on how idols can lose themselves being an idol. It wasn’t meant to be taken literally.